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Obama Prepares Executive Order For Indefinite Detention

Tyler Durden's picture


First president Obama becomes Bush in all but name with respect to his predecessor's economic policies, and now he follows by espousing Bush's interpretation of "civil rights" as well. According to Pro Publica, the White House is preparing an Executive Order for indefinite detention. And while the premise behind a comparable draft has been circulating around for 18 months, the uptake was seen as problematic. The "humanitarian" premise behind the order is that it will "provide for the periodic reviews of evidence against dozens of prisoners held at Guantanamo Bay... and allow for the possibility that detainees from countries like Yemen might be released if circumstances change." That's the theory. The "practice" is that the Order will, as the name implies, afford the administration the option of "indefinite detention as a long-term Obama administration policy and
makes clear that the White House alone will manage a review process for
those it chooses to hold without charge or trial." In other words all those, and we assume that the Order is not merely targeting those involved in September 11, and is wider in its scope, who are perceived by the administration as "high value detainees" will be denied due process, and will be held in captivity essentially indefinitely with no legal recourse, for as long as the "review process" so deems fit. As for the "theory" aspect, Politico summarizes just how much of a bold lie Obama's promise two years ago to close Guantanamo has become: "Nearly two years after Obama's pledge to close the prison at Guantanamo,
more inmates there are formally facing the prospect of lifelong
detention and fewer are facing charges than the day Obama was elected." In other words, Obama has one upped Dubya not only when it comes to Republican economic policy, but has in fact surpassed his abrogation of basic human rights. And seeing how in the aftermath of the Assange arrest (speaking of which, Julian better run following this announcement), it is only a matter of time before that whole 'Internet free speech' premise is perceived to be a form of treason, by the likes of Biden, Palin and Lieberman, potentially punishable if not by death, then certainly indefinite, lifelong detention.

More from Pro Publica:

After taking office, the Obama administration reviewed the detainee population at Guantanamo Bay and chose 48 prisoners for indefinite detention. Officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said that number will likely increase in coming months as some detainees are moved from a transfer category to a continued detention category.

If signed by President Obama, the new order will provide added review for detainees designated for long-term detention. The order, which is being drafted jointly by White House staff in the National Security council and the White House counsel, will offer detainees in this category a minimal review every six months and then a more lengthy annual review. Detainees will have access to an attorney, to some evidence against them and the ability to challenge their continued detention.

Prisoners who have been deemed "high-value detainees," including the alleged conspirators of the 2001 attacks, have been designated for prosecution in civilian or military courts.

In 2008, Guantanamo detainees won the right to challenge the lawfulness of their detention in court. The executive order aims to create an executive branch review which would occur separately from the court review and would weigh the necessity of the detention, rather than its lawfulness, officials said.

"Perhaps the dangerousness of the detainee's country of origin could change, or the group that the detainee is affiliated with could cease to exist," one official explained.

Sorry to interject, but the humor factor of the possibility that someone would be released from Guantanamo after the CIA lowers the threat level of i.e., Yemen from burgndy to mauve, is just as powerful as that of someone stating that Bernanke will ever stop printing monetary ones and zeroes.

At the end of the day, this is merely another example of what happens when Congress refuses to play ball:

Weeks later, administration officials said the White House had decided to work with Congress on indefinite detention, rather than through Executive Order. But by the end of 2009, the White House had said it would not support legislation.

Then, in 2010, a government task force on Guantanamo completed a year-long review that placed 48 detainees in long-term detention. In its report, task force members said those detainees would be "subject to periodic Executive Branch review."


Jameel Jaffer, a national security lawyer at the American Civil Liberties Association, agreed that "more review is better." But he said that an executive order would only "normalize and institutionalize indefinite detention and other policies," that were set in place by the Bush administration.

While we hope we are wrong, we have this very nagging feeling that the timing and sudden reappearance of this order on the docket is in advance of one or more charges of espionage about to be lobbed at Wikileaks... And to think, all Julian Assange threatened to do was to take down Bank of America, something that should have happened over two years ago if that whole 'free market', risk/return thing was even remotely close to what it is taught to be at various ivy draped business schools.


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Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:18 | 822633 Rahm
Rahm's picture

Is this some kind of sick joke?

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:37 | 822687 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

No, its not a joke, unfortunately.  I wonder is anyone watching?  Its like George Carlin said one time, nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care.  It makes me sick to see what is happening in this country, sick to my stomach, knowing full well someday soon, good men will die for all of this , trying to stop them before it is too late. We Americans simply do not ever learn from history.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:44 | 822702 theXman
theXman's picture

There is no change. 

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:24 | 822974 chet
chet's picture


While this order is legal bullshittery, just as it was under Bush, it is clearly just an attempt to deal with the poor saps already locked up in Guantanamo, not an effort to end dissent and lock us all up.

The time to get pissed about this was when GW Bush started this crap nine years ago.  But I'm guessing that many of you Obama haters conveniently overlooked it at the time.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:38 | 823003 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I love how you simply dismiss anyone criticizing this move because they should have criticized it ten years ago.  Here's a fucking hint, a lot of us WERE, and many more have since woken up and realized what is going on in this country.

Stop fucking pretending like everyone who is against the policies of the current administration is a member of the fucking republican party.  This partisan bullshit is EXACTLY the reason that we are all in the clutches of the two headed snake.  

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:47 | 823023 Kyron95131
Kyron95131's picture


divide and conquer

but in this case its the mind, which has already suffered massive casualties over the last decades

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:06 | 823062 chet
chet's picture

I'm troubled by it.  I think that the Constitution has been trashed over the last ten years basically without a peep from the judicial branch.

What I'm really just commenting on here is the ZH tendency to jump to conspiracy theories and a bunker mentality.

To me this sounds like nothing more ominous than attempt number whatever to deal with the prisoners at Guantanamo who no one can figure out what to do with. 

The administration's only other option is to take the position that they can't be held indefinitely.  Since no one knows what to do with them, that isn't really an option.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:20 | 823087 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture


"...the Constitution has been trashed over the last ten years..."

Try 80 years. or some here would go back to 1913 or so.

And the administration's position was that they could not be held indefinitely.

So I've fired up the ol' popcorn machine, got a bit of coconut oil, gonna sit back and watch the moonbats go crazy.  After all, they were promised an end to Camp X-Ray et al.

Oh, yes, they know what to do with "them".  just, well, either alternative isn't really politically attractive for their bigger picture.

- Ned

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:36 | 823128 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Since no one knows what to do with them, that isn't really an option.

Uh, really? 

Hey, how dya like the TSA feel-ups? Oh, you go through the scanner?

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 09:14 | 823519 docj
docj's picture

Yours is pretty typical thinking for people who seem to believe all life started with Bush v. Gore in December 2000.

Here's a hint, we're nearing (hopefully) the end (hopefully) of a long train of abuses, going back at least to 1929 if not 1913 or even before.  History did not begin the day the phrase "hanging chat" pitifully entered our lexicon.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:48 | 823027 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

The kings of France had this power prior to the revolution.  They could have anyone thrown into prison at any time.  No charges, no trial, no appeal, no sentence, no release.  Those unfortunates stayed in prison until the king released them or they died.  It was notorious and could happen to anyone.  It was one of the causes of the French Revolution.  There really was a man in an iron mask imprisoned in the Bastille, you know.  He was held under a lettre de cachet.   

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 01:57 | 823301 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

And these days, the French once again have this power....but as a collective, and, under more civilized conditions, I assume.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 02:30 | 823340 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Do they really?  Isn't it funny how those old injustices we fought revolutions over long ago and thought were vanquished keep rising from the dead.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 02:41 | 823353 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Governments, like all entities, are required by human nature to protect themselves via laws. No oppression every truly goes away, and no revolution ever truly wins. We only get the same, resurrected with new, temporarily palatable stripes. Much like business, human suffering and dissent is cyclical.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 13:22 | 824128 ronin12
ronin12's picture

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history. - Aldous Huxley

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 06:49 | 823441 Slim Pickens
Slim Pickens's picture

The French now "collectively" have the right to imprison someone with no charges, no trial, no appeal, no sentence and no release?  What are you going on about?

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 12:01 | 823899 Bob
Bob's picture

Meanwhile, we have Barry presiding over the end of genuine net neutrality while posing as the guy who is saving it:

Time to set Bush-Cheney bickering aside--not only could they have not pulled this stuff off, they are not now the guys driving it home.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 13:06 | 824092 ThePhysicist
ThePhysicist's picture

The problem with the detainees began when they became "detainees." Even Bush's policies were too politically correct in this regard, to take these combatants into custody. They should have been executed on the battlefield. No prisoners in the first place, problem solved.


Tue, 12/28/2010 - 14:50 | 833899 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Hmmm... you appear to be ignoring the fact that most of these detainees were not captured on a battlefield in the heat of battle, but handed over by our 'allies' in Afghanistan in return for bounty money.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:47 | 823025 SMG
SMG's picture

Many of the people here know what is going on.  Tell as many outside this forum as you can what is happening to freedom.  They won't understand at first, but keep at it. The truth in the hands of as many people as possible, THAT is our only hope.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 03:08 | 823367 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Of course, you are right. But, I am not sure I really, fully understand what the real truth is. And, even a man who knows the truth must have the will, the desire, and the ability to act on that truth. Truth without action is just another lie.

"I will give you all the truth you can stand, brother, but will kill you if you accuse me of it."

- Aristarchan

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:50 | 822724 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

Take the covers from mine eyes,

See the fecal covered mass,

Used to see it as Red and Blue and White!

But I know it now as darker than night.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:48 | 822892 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

A bit off thread, but relevant to the increasing fascism:

CNBC analyst pushing for a "global cashless society". Can you imagine - one further step to a chip implanted in you (with your bank account information) - with Big Brother able to access everything. 

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:53 | 822902 Kali
Kali's picture

Just posted this on another thread, but,

May 1- new SS recipients will no longer gets checks in mail, electronic only.

March 1, 2013- all SS recipients will have to switch to electronic.


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:00 | 822920 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

roll them sixes baby.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:05 | 822927 Testicular Cancer
Testicular Cancer's picture


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:27 | 822979 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

them sixes is the boxcars rolling over the obama admin.  i'm not saying what's next will be better, but this guy's losing.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:39 | 823004 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Everything he's done is a part of the 'plan'...

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:25 | 823088 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"The 'Change' is in your pocket. You're unemployed now?  That is more of 'The Change.' "

"You see 'The Change' is working..."
Stupid Internet Bear #1

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 06:50 | 823442 Croesus
Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:57 | 823173 Johnny Dangereaux
Johnny Dangereaux's picture

Not really off thread Joey...that guy is a typical Zionist scumbag and a bigger threat to OUR Country than any "terrorist"...Lipow? suck my ass now! He obviously is a dual citizen, just like that other lover of America and Freedom, Rahmdick.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 03:50 | 823388 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

CNBC analyst pushing for a "global cashless society".


To  help America (the US)

US citizens will not be targeted by the bad consequences (or only a few of them, and mostly the usual suspects)

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:52 | 822730 Nathan Muir
Nathan Muir's picture

The only people that care are the folks this tyrannical gov wants to lock up.  Anybody catch Holder last night...."American extremist" are America's biggest threat?  Watch out Paul/Kucinich supporters, this means you... the enlightened crowd, you're the enemy. Why has this happened here you ask....because abundance morphs into complacancy, which morphs into apathy, which morphs into dependency....and then comes tyranny.  It is coming....oh wait, already here. 

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:09 | 822787 keep the bastar...
keep the bastards honest's picture

Guru Prechtor told everyone to get their things and get out 10 years ago.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 03:20 | 823048 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

The Elliott Wave Guru,  Prechtor, has the same intellectual depth and flexible perdictability that allowed pre-Coperican astrologers to explain all observed planet movements, even though their underlying theory of an Earth-centered universe was wrong. 

He's 30 years late and a few dollars short.

 Kent State Massacre, May 1970

          Ex-Pated, July, 1970


Déjà Vu


 Almost Cut My Hair

Must be because I have the flu this Christmas

That I'm not feeling up to par

It increases my paranoia

Like lookin at my mirror and seeing a police car


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:41 | 822873 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

In the end, places like Guantanamo, were always meant for you and I, and  the innocent Afghans, that they threw in there, were merely test subjects to see how we would react to people being locked up without benefit of habeas corpus and adequate counsel. Nobody seemed to care because we were told this was to protect us from those evil terrorist, but now , just who is this evil terrorist? Well of course , it was always you and I all along. I have always known it to be so.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:47 | 822889 clymer
clymer's picture


"not one dime"

"you can take that to the bank"

"I will end the wars"

"I taught constitutional law"


..where are the star-struck democrats that railed against 'dubya'? Too proud to admit you got duped?

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:35 | 822992 Plainview
Plainview's picture

as an Obama supporter at the time -primarily because I backed him to win at 20/1- I have to agree. This guy is going to get his ass handed to him so bad in 2012; Eric Cartman has a better chance of being the next POTUS.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:52 | 823032 Jasper M
Jasper M's picture

+1! You made me waf. 

All I need now is to hear Holder demand "respect  ma  atority!"

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:09 | 823064 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

We saw the Holder game during the Clinton years.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 00:01 | 823181 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Nice sentiment, but you might want to look at the distribution of electoral college votes and see how close 2012 will already be, and then consider the fact that a number of "get out the vote" actions, including hundreds of billions of slush funds, aka stimulus money, are going to be dedicated to filling in any gaps. It would be reasonable to doubt that the Big O will get his A handed to him in 2012.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 05:20 | 823415 Hot Shakedown
Hot Shakedown's picture

His Kenyon ass is toast. Never before has there been anyone in the White House who basically did the opposite of every campain pledge, lied, and openly espoused them self as :

Anti American
Anti Christian
Anti business

The guy is a joke and has alienated himself from EVERY demographic part of the country. How can he possibly defend himself in 2012? What is he responsible for to date? He is history.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 09:44 | 823550 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Big O can't run in 2012 without handing over his long form birth certificate. The one that states the hospital, date/time of birth, delivery doctor and has a raised seal. Something he has spent over 2 million dollars to avoid doing to date. Several states now have laws on the books, passed since 2008 because of his reticence to produce his long form, requiring the proper vetting of presidential candidates, something you would have thought they would have considered without a law. Nonetheless, Obama is hiding something (reference his first presidential act of sealing all his past records) and will NOT run again in 2012 but will be removed or decline for some unknown reason. Remember where you heard it first :).

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 11:21 | 823788 Fearless Rick
Fearless Rick's picture

While on the surface it seems dubious, you are absolutely correct. The states do have those laws and Onama will have to produce the BC, meaning he either will not run again or they've already produced a great-looking phony document.

For now, I'll go with the theory that he won't run, in which case, one of three possible scenarios emerges. One, he goes quietly into the night, on the grounds that he's worn out, wants to spend more time with Michelle and the girls, blah, blah, blah, or he suffers a primary defeat at the hands of the hated Hillary.

Third scenario is the nightmare, where we're under martial law, or at war with China or some other impressive foe (though China is the 800 pound gorilla).

Of the three, none are good, but I'd think the Hillary option is the one most likely.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 12:32 | 823981 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Nice thinking, but the ship on birth certificates has done sailed, and Big O will no doubt be accepted on grounds of personal recognisance as being qualified to run for the office.

In fact, I would say the odds are non-trivial that he will still be in the WH in 2018.


Wed, 12/22/2010 - 01:42 | 823283 Triggernometry
Triggernometry's picture

I'd have to agree this policy will inevitably be turned against dissent.

Efficiency breeds surplus which breeds luxury which breeds inequality. Its no coincidence the societies with least technology have the least inequality.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:12 | 822794 samsara
samsara's picture
"The illusion of freedom [in America ] will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater." ~Frank Zappa
Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:29 | 822839 macholatte
Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:50 | 823160 samsara
samsara's picture

Hat Tip to you friend.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 11:29 | 823807 Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture

Just shut up and play yer guitar!  :)

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:22 | 822961 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Everyone is watching HPD. Unfortunately they are watching a "24" re-run, waiting for armageddingsome. And the the malaise of simply never learnign from history is not merely American. It's global.

Look here at India.... for 400 years, under the British boot-heel, crushed as a people, nation, agglomeration of humans...whatever. Never again and all that pablum, 1947, "won" our freedom. Were in-dependent.

In  mere 60 years, we're back where we began. It's only slightly more subtle this time, the take over that never ended anyways. Everywhere, all around, the signs of our new subjugation, same as the old subjugation are everywhere. 

Learnt from our past? Hardly. This time, it's a crush for the entry, not the exits. 

Give me more, can I buy some now, sex, fuck, dude, 30% off (yeeeehaaah), bitch, pussy, get ahead, yes sir, sir, sir, sir, madam, white man, bow bow, white woman bow wow, fatty, darkie, worthless, code-monkey, india shining.....

We are all in it together HPD. You guys, on the shining frontier, the bleeding, twin-blade cuting, leadiing edge will get it worst too much change), India's will lick their wounds (again) and introspect.... but change? Learn?


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:35 | 822993 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Do you think the Gandhi method would work here?

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:43 | 823138 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture


The Dalai Lama: "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times)

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 00:31 | 823222 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

HPD, the Gandhi method worked here because it was meant to.

In the end, he was but a tool,
for divide


Just another patsy pin-up boy doing his thing for the masters.

The only "thing" that can "work" is some sort of spontaneous awakening to the heartless-ness of materialism, scientific-ism, capital-ism, femin-ism, manifest denstin-ism and all of our other isms.

Is that possible? Indeed. And it might come to people in the most un-expected ways.

Let us say a super-massive display of natural power, never seen before, live on TV (actually Europe in chains of ice ought to give some pause for reflection). Or a solar flare that shows exactly who is the biggest and baddest of them all.

Animism, the only ism I'd get with.


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:36 | 822996 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

deleted , double post

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 02:14 | 823329 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Remember, in America people take what they want from history that supports their own propaganda and run with it.  This will be used against the US citizen in the near future, just wait.  With our economy close to imploding, they need this stuff in order to keep people quiet.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:10 | 822790 HL Shancken
HL Shancken's picture

The First Time I Heard of Barack
Written by Thomas Fife

During the period of roughly February 1992 to mid 1994, I was making frequent trips to Moscow, Russia, in the process of starting a software development joint-venture company with some people from the Russian scientific community. One of the men in charge on the Russian side was named V. M.; he had a wife named T.M.

V. was a level-headed scientist while his wife was rather deeply committed to the losing Communist cause – a cause she obviously was not abandoning.

One evening, during a trip early in 1992, the American half of our venture were invited to V. & T.’s Moscow flat as we were about to return to the States. The party went well and we had the normal dinner discussions.

As the evening wore on, T. developed a decidedly rough anti-American edge – one her husband tried to quietly rein in.

The bottom line of the tirade she started against the United States went something like this:

“You Americans always like to think that you have the perfect government and your people are always so perfect. Well then, why haven’t you had a woman president by now? You had a chance to vote for a woman vice-president and you didn’t do it.”

The general response went something along the lines that you don’t vote for someone just because of their sex. Besides, you don’t vote for vice-president, but the president and vice-president as a ticket.

“Well, I think you are going to be surprised when you get a black president very soon.”

The consensus we expressed was that we didn’t think there was anything innately barring that. The right person at the right time and sure, America would try to vote for the right person, be he or she black or not.

“What if I told you that you will have a black president very soon and he will be a Communist?”

The out-of-the-blue remark was met by our stares. She continued, “Well, you will; and he will be a Communist.”

It was then that the husband unsuccessfully tried to change the subject; but she was on a roll and would have nothing of it. One of us asked, “It sounds like you know something we don’t know.”

“Yes, it is true. This is not some idle talk. He is already born and he is educated and being groomed to be president right now. You will be impressed to know that he has gone to the best schools of Presidents. He is what you call “Ivy League”. You don’t believe me, but he is real and I even know his name. His name is Barack. His mother is white and American and his father is black from Africa. That’s right, a chocolate baby! And he’s going to be your President.”

She became more and more smug as she presented her stream of detailed knowledge and predictions so matter-of-factly – as though all were foregone conclusions. “It’s all been thought out. His father is not an American black so he won’t have that social slave stigma. He is intelligent and he is half white and has been raised from the cradle to be an atheist and a Communist. He’s gone to the finest schools. He is being guided every step of the way and he will be irresistible to America.”

We sat there not knowing what to say. She was obviously very happy that the Communists were doing this and that it would somehow be a thumbing of their collective noses at America: they would give us a black president and he’d be a Communist to boot. She made it quite obvious that she thought that this was going to breathe new life into world Communism. From this and other conversations with her, she always asserted that Communism was far from dead.

She was full of little details about him that she was eager to relate. I thought that maybe she was trying to show off that this truly was a real person and not just hot air.

She rattled off a complete litany. He was from Hawaii. He went to school in California. He lived in Chicago. He was soon to be elected to the legislature. “Have no doubt: he is one of us, a Soviet.”

At one point, she related some sort of San Francisco connection, but I didn’t understand what the point was and don’t recall much about that. I was just left with the notion that she considered the city to be some sort of a center for their activity here.

Since I had dabbled in languages, I knew a smattering of Arabic. I made a comment: “If I remember correctly, ‘Barack’ comes from the Arabic word for ‘Blessing.’ That seems to be an odd name for an American.” She replied quickly, “Yes. It is ‘African’”, she insisted, “and he will be a blessing for world Communism. We will regain our strength and become the number one power in the world.”

She continued with something to the effect that America was at the same time the great hope and the great obstacle for Communism. America would have to be converted to Communism and Barack was going to pave the way.

So, what does this conversation from 1992 prove?

Well, it’s definitely anecdotal. It doesn’t prove that Obama has had Soviet Communist training nor that he was groomed to be the first black American president, but it does show one thing that I think is very important. It shows that Soviet Russian Communists knew of Barack from a very early date. It also shows that they truly believed among themselves that he was raised and groomed Communist to pave the way for their future. This report on Barack came personally to me from one of them long before America knew he existed.

Although I had never before heard of him, at the time of this conversation Obama was 30+ years old and was obviously tested enough that he was their anticipated rising star.



Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:36 | 822963 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Deleted because I'm wasting my time.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:39 | 823130 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture


Yes. I have had a lifetime to observe the American scene and I don't know where it comes from.  My own hypothesis is that growing up with the boob tube damages attention span and capacity to separate fantasy from reality. 

But IMO, the good news is that the public is beginning to sober up and we still have the triparite government.  

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:45 | 823017 tmosley
tmosley's picture

This is fiction guys.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:57 | 823045 HL Shancken
HL Shancken's picture

What's your angle, tmosely? I know you don't speak from knowledge of facts, so, what's your angle? I'll be back in a couple hours to read your response, so be sure to put some effort into it, since you have the time. In fact, you even have enough time to listen to an interview given by Fife, which is the link below.





Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:20 | 823085 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Last I heard this story years ago it was George W. Bush as the future president being groomed by the Rothschild machine.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:51 | 823162 robobbob
robobbob's picture

so you're saying its true?

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 02:45 | 823357 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

He's saying its the equivalent of an urban legend.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:48 | 823149 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Mr. HL Shitckan:

Hot's damn!...You is back frothin and banging away at the keys-bored and a commie-busting and a caring on a'gin ... Witches, your preferred style.

Now... Just you be hanging on! 

Don't be posting too much before hand, while I puts a few towels under my desk here so I don't go peeing on the Old Bag's floor iffing I lose control and laughs so hard and such like I did the last time you entertains I so well. 

OK's I ready!  Fire away!

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 00:47 | 823240 halvord
halvord's picture

"Daddy, what's a comm- commanist?"

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 02:14 | 823330 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

The Wall Street banksters financed Lenin and Trotsky, so your point is that the same banksters are behind Obama...?

Wow, didn't see that coming...except for the part where we should direct our prosecution against his bankster puppet masters and not against phantom commie menaces in an atavistic witch hunt for old times sakes, right?...but I don't think that's what you're suggesting...

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:17 | 822807 Hidetora
Hidetora's picture

Colin Quinn was on Imus this morning and said that one of the last things George Carlin said to him was that he never thought that censorship would come from the left.

And may I add to that, nor would he have forseen the wolves peeling back their sheepskins in broad daylight.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:40 | 822864 HL Shancken
HL Shancken's picture

Comedians should be granted the same credibility as supermodels, rappers, and garbage men when it comes to politics. This includes the late George Carlin and the still-breathing Colin Quinn and Jon Stewart, yet many of you take them very seriously and treat them with great respect. It's a very revealing fact.



Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:01 | 823053 PenGun
PenGun's picture

 And the serious people we should be listening to are ....

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 01:56 | 823299 HL Shancken
HL Shancken's picture

Serious people see things for what they are and not for what they want them to be. I suggest only one name at this time, J.R. Nyquist. His weekly columns have appeared online for more than ten years. You should read them all.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 03:05 | 823364 PenGun
PenGun's picture

 Wow. OK now that I know what you are talking about, I'll take Jon Stewert although he does have a limited world view.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 00:17 | 823211 Hidetora
Hidetora's picture

Is not the point valid?

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 01:53 | 823293 HL Shancken
HL Shancken's picture

Woodrow Wilson, a Democrat, wasa president from 1913 until 1921. The war years as well as the first Red Scare resulted in censorship on a large scale. Those making anti-war and anti-American comments or publications often found themselves arrested, tried, convicted, and imprisoned for doing so.


FDR, Democrat, said, "All Americans abhor censorship, just as they abhor war. But the experience of this and of all other Nations has demonstrated that some degree of censorship is essential in wartime, and we are at war."


Harry Truman, Democrat:


January 15, 1946



FOR EXCEPTIONALLY meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding services as Director, Office of Censorship, from December 20, 1941, until August 15, 1945· Faced by a choice on one hand of instituting a system of voluntary censorship with the attendant danger to our military effort from careless publication or broadcast and, on the other hand, the only alternative of compulsory censorship which carried the potentiality of blacking-out the freedom of the press for the duration, Mr. Price chose to exercise his faith in the integrity of the personnel and organizations responsible for the communication of news to the public by Initiating an experiment in wartime censorship unique in its inception and execution, previously untried in any country. Throughout this period the total American war effort was shared in its individual parts by thousands and frequently by millions of people; ships, planes, troops, munitions and supplies were assembled and moved to war theaters in overwhelming force; submarines raided the enemy's far flung supply lines; German and Japanese submarines were hunted down and destroyed by a combination of tactics, weapons and devices that could similarly have been used against us; scientific laboratories developed and factories produced radar and the atomic bomb and they were put to devastating use; knowledge of these vast activities was in possession of press and radio media and was voluntarily withheld from publication or broadcast. By his distinctive and complete success in discharging his responsibilities as Director of Censorship, Mr. Price has demonstrated the strength of this country in its unity in time of stress and has contributed vitally to our hold upon one of the freedoms for which we were fighting and essential to our democratic way of life--the freedom of the press.


V.I. Lenin, Communist--"When one makes a Revolution, one cannot mark time; one must always go forward - or go back. He who now talks about the "freedom of the press" goes backward, and halts our headlong course towards Socialism."



Joseph Stalin, Communist--"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas."



In short, no, the point is not valid.



Wed, 12/22/2010 - 01:26 | 823267 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Mr.HL Shitckan:

Damn-a-nation man... I a fingured you out !

You one of them highest paid commie-d writers from that there Jon Stewart, News of the World, progrom.

I watches that stuff all the day to get all my bestest infos and en-lightenments and en-teartainmens.

Tanks yous ever so much!

Keep up U'alls so great wrighting.

You and yours make a big smile come to ma toothless face.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 13:43 | 824196 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture


I fucking hope so. This is insanity. Pure, adultered madness.

I can't wait for the "Legal Prevention Act"

Why do we even have a fucking constitution anyway?

This shit fucking pisses me off and frankly makes me understand why you might fly a plane into a fucking building.

I do not mean that in a derogatory way by any means to anyone whom might have lost a loved one, or be sensitive to the issues. I'm just stating an emotional reaction to this post.


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:17 | 822634 Mr.Kowalski
Mr.Kowalski's picture

Here's my 2011 Predictions.. read 'em and weep Big O:

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:04 | 822767 mikla
mikla's picture

Reasonable predictions -- IMHO they sound quite plausible.

I'm still expecting the EU to detonate in 2011 and US in 2012.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:31 | 822845 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Meredith Whitney is tits up on Munis going now and that could start a firestorm.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:04 | 822928 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

Meredith Whitney is tits up on Munis going now and that could start a firestorm.


I didn't catch much ZH community commentary on MW's 60 Minutes interview.

MW: 12 months.

60: 12 months?

MW: 12 months.



Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:07 | 822931 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

Meredith Whitney is tits up on Munis going now and that could start a firestorm.


I didn't catch much ZH community commentary on MW's 60 Minutes interview.

MW: 12 months.

60: 12 months?

MW: 12 months.



Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:18 | 822952 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

gotta give it to the mayan PTW...they knew their fucking cycles.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:09 | 822786 Harbourcity
Harbourcity's picture

Good list.  I agree, I don't think, aside from a Black Swan, 2011 is *the* year.

I found it interesting as I read your list how obvious the game is becoming - the bailouts, the suppression of gold via silver, the takeover of the internet and the new executive order to remove peoples basic legal rights.  


It's starting to get real.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:19 | 822636 Bill D. Cat
Bill D. Cat's picture

Need . More . Popcorn .

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:18 | 822637 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

So, why does the world hate Americans?

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:59 | 822909 HL Shancken
HL Shancken's picture

To the largest degree the answer is efforts such as what is described by Ion Mahai Pacepa:


"History always repeats itself, and if you can live two lives, you have an even greater chance of seeing that repetition with your own eyes. During the last six years of my other life, as a Romanian intelligence general, the main task of the Soviet bloc espionage community was to transform Yasser Arafat's war against Israel and its main supporter, the United States, into an armed doctrine of the whole Islamic world.


America was our main enemy, and a billion adversaries could inflict far greater damage on it than could a mere one million. Islamic anti-Semitism ran deep. Our task was to convert its historical hatred of the Jews into a new hatred of the United States, by portraying this land of freedom as an "imperial Zionist country" financed by Jewish money and run by a rapacious "Council of the Elders of Zion," the Kremlin's epithet for the US Congress.

"According to KGB theorists, the Islamic world was a petri dish in which we could nurture a virulent strain of America-hate. Islamic cultures had a taste for nationalism, jingoism and victimology. Their illiterate, oppressed mobs could be whipped up to a fever pitch. Terrorism and violence against America would flow naturally from their religious fervor. We had only to keep repeating, over and over, that the United States was a "Zionist country" bankrolled by rich Jews.


Islam was obsessed with preventing the infidel's occupation of its territory, and it would be highly receptive to our dogma that American imperialism wanted to transform the rest of the world into a Jewish fiefdom.

"Before I left Romania for good, in 1978, the Soviet bloc intelligence community flooded the Islamic world with Arabic translations of an old Russian, forged, anti-Semitic tract entitled Protocols of the Elders of Zion, along with "documentary" materials, also in Arabic, "proving" that the United States was a Zionist country governed by Jewish money, whose aim was to extend its domination over the rest of the world.


We also infiltrated the Islamic world with thousands of Soviet bloc Islamic citizens recruited as intelligence agents and tasked to implant there a rabid, demented hatred for American Zionism. They were to portray everybody and everything in America as being subordinated to Jewish interests: the leaders, the government, the political parties, the most prominent personalities, and even American history. Most of these agents were religious servants, engineers, medical doctors or teachers, and they had excellent credibility."



The above is just one example of countless active measures carried out against the United States by the KGB in every country in the world.


KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov provides detailed insight into how these influence operations are carried out in interviews and presentations done in 1983-4. Following is a segment of the interview:



Those who dismiss the relevance of the efforts of the Soviet Union to manipulate world opinion on the basis that the Soviet Union has long-since collapsed should read this by Jeff Nyquist:




Wed, 12/22/2010 - 01:23 | 823261 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

HL Shitckan:


U'alls  killing me here!  I got this here big puddle under my commie-pewter's desk...but you a copying and a paste and posting so fast I ain't a had a chance to get my selves to outhouse in proper time or fashion.

So U'alls better just give a moment for someones elses from ZH here to maybe get a few words in edge wise.

Tanks for yous humours and phunnies.  I got to go see a man aobut some busyness.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:20 | 822641 Mr.Kowalski
Mr.Kowalski's picture

Wow.. Obama spits on his leftist allies yet again. Anyone think he'll be rated as good as Herbert Hoover was ?

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:21 | 822642 Rahm
Rahm's picture

He already has MANY things in common w/Hoover

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:40 | 822695 GrouchoNotKarl
GrouchoNotKarl's picture

Obama was never supposed to be any side.  He was groomed and presented to the left as their ally so they can be placated for 4 years.  He is assuredly on the corporatist/banksters side only.  Just ask yourself where the antiwar groups and civil rights groups went during the Bush regime. The Obama regime is the same. In fact don't look to the presidency as anything but a puppet office.  

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:46 | 822709 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

+1    Two heads, same snake.  All about control, about turning the stampede into itself so that it mills and slows down.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:15 | 822948 Old Europe Avan...
Old Europe Avant-Garde's picture

But, but, he won the Nobel Peace Price... *cynicsm off*

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:20 | 822643 andybev01
andybev01's picture

Looks like we get the chance to all meet in person very soon.


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:21 | 822645 Rahm
Rahm's picture

^ andybev01 FTW!

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:24 | 822655 andybev01
andybev01's picture

Thanks. I'll bring beer if you bring some chips.

We can screen The Manchurian Candidate.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:38 | 822678 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

I will buy the fucking dip.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:02 | 822761 samsara
samsara's picture


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:09 | 822789 VegasBD
VegasBD's picture

+1 freaking hilarious.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:33 | 822848 lead salad
lead salad's picture


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:38 | 822865 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

Cheesy Bastard wins!

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 03:16 | 823372 What_Me_Worry
What_Me_Worry's picture

Classic.  Well played!

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 15:27 | 824535 andybev01
andybev01's picture

I concede to Cheesy.

+fucking hilarious.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:34 | 822675 hambone
hambone's picture

Can we agree to leave Wanger, Toathis, and Robo in another cell since it's pretty clear they're all working for CIA, FBI, or some acronym.  Nobody could be stupid enough to come up with the shit they spout...that could only come from the mind of the government intelligence.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:45 | 822706 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

They will be our guards.  Thier pensions will be invested in the market.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:49 | 822718 hambone
hambone's picture

Their pensions are likely contigent on getting enough of us in that cell that we never receive our pension or SS pitance. 

But we'll have our revenge, we won't invest in their rigged prison system!!!

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:53 | 822733 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Or, before they get us in the cell, we could pay them with a certain precious metal.  Lead.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:50 | 822895 Rahm
Rahm's picture

That is, the parts of it that aren't hollowed out (sorry NJ residents)

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:53 | 822901 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Or a well placed shank.....

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 02:52 | 823361 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I was just wondering why they would bother to house and feed us instead of standing us against the wall?  So much more efficient you know.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:21 | 822646 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Neither Bush nor Obama could lead me across the street.

Pathetic. Unconstitutional. Immoral.

What'd I leave out?

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:36 | 822681 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

Tyrannical and Evil.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:08 | 822783 hambone
hambone's picture

all adds up to...Presidential?!?

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:48 | 823148 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:20 | 822814 Hidetora
Hidetora's picture

I believe you meant amoral.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:41 | 822697 badrhino
badrhino's picture

Listened. To. The. Whole. Thing.

It was interesting; nothing particularly new, but an interesting, action-oriented, take on the looming (occurring) crisis.

The sales pitch at the end seemed somewhat pathetic; reminded me of Stephen Leeb, but without the annoying voice.


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:40 | 822868 lead salad
lead salad's picture

I'm about half way through and I had to take breaks because it was SO action-packed.

Think I'll stop.  I figured there was a sales pitch at the end.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 01:11 | 823253 Rebel
Rebel's picture

Very long, and at the end, he is selling his newsletter. No actionable ideas in the LONG audio. Also, google "stansberry scams". Apparently he has legal troubles associated with past newsletters.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 17:59 | 824912 ronin12
ronin12's picture

This guy lost credibility when he tried to imply that Americans pay lower gas prices due to the USD being the world reservce currency.

I think taxes might have something to do with the fact that Europeans pay $6-7 a gallon.


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:26 | 822652 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

When will Obama release an executive order giving him the right to throw people in the oven? Does that come before or after he invades Poland?

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:40 | 822694 israhole
israhole's picture

Sounds like you're watching too much of the Hitlery Channel.  Where are all the graves?  The way they hunt ex-nazis for 6 decades, you'd think they'd uncover some real evidence by now. Instead, they've had to resurface the plaque at Auschwitz a few times with ever-lower numbers.

You better cut cable tv out of your monthly bills!

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:53 | 822714 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I was just using it as sarcasm to telegraph how lawless our government has become and the power they are usurping away from the people.

It is eerily analagous to Hitler though. The euphoria surrounding his election, the skilled orator, the blatant power grabs piece by piece. I mean the parallels are almost shockingly apparent. Detaining people indefinately without due process of law? That's scary.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:56 | 822737 israhole
israhole's picture

I understand and was also just making a point, with facts.  Here's another fact, we always hear on the controlled media that Hitler just hated the "Chosen Ones" entirely unjustified. Yet, at least 15 years before anybody even knew his name, Germans were referring to their currency as "judefetzen".  

Look it up.  There are always at least 2 sides to a story, yet we only get pounded relentlessly with one.


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 20:59 | 822749 hambone
hambone's picture

Sorry, but I think you have the wrong web site.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:02 | 822752 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture


Wait...are you one of the people who don't want to admit the holocaust occured?

If so, this conversation is over.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:21 | 822819 israhole
israhole's picture

So you're content to just take the word of people that wrote something like this?

It's on all the campuses for years now, combined with Megaphone software. How come you never heard of it?

You do know that media doesn't always (ever) tell the truth, right?


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:44 | 822882 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

Israhole. Just like the neo Nazi this morning huh. My grandfather's four brothers were shot down in cold blood by your no holocost-didn't-happen buddies from the great Reich. Go float your shit coated baloons at someone elses party.

Instead of listening to "Pastor Pete" on the short wave why don't you get an education.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:04 | 822925 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

This was another war that we had no business being in.  I tell the ww2 vets, this and all I get is a blank stare.  They even had a program on PBS a few years ago talking about how FDR had been warned ahead of the attack on Pearl Harbor and that he did nothing about it because it was his orders by the Zionist Rothschild interest to get us into war, at any cost. So he did. Over a thousand people died in Pearl Harbor for nothing. They moved the carriers because they wanted to use them for the war. The Battleships were lined up in dock like sitting ducks. Now I ask you, why would a very tiny country like Japan attack us?  They were provoked by FDR, that's why. They took the bate and so a lot of people died for nothing and bankers got even more wealthy. The ww2 Pearl Harbor vets that they showed this film to, sat there and scratched their heads and said. Well I guess he had to do that in order to get us into war.  Say what!!!!    See how they are?  They simply do not get it and never will and they don't want to get it either. It is simply too painful.  So  I  am sorry for your people being killed.  I lost some in that war too. But I will have to say, Israhole is being real nice to you about what he is trying to say.  Me,   I let the chips fall where they may.  Sir, if you only knew. If you only knew.  You simply would not believe it Israhole is barely touching the surface.  Believe me, he is barely touching the surface.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:56 | 823042 trav7777
trav7777's picture

i don't think he claimed WW2 never happened.

While the Holocaust clearly happened, wtf is with your pavlovian leaping to demagogue anyone who isn't militantly pro-jewish??

His statement that we get one side of this is correct.  There were millions of others placed in those camps, lots of other group camp patches, brown triangles, pink ones, purple, etc...why do we have only ONE museum for this and hear only ONE narrative?


Wed, 12/22/2010 - 16:40 | 823065 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"wtf is with your pavlovian leaping to demagogue anyone who isn't militantly pro-jewish??"

You have referenced the importance of Clan on more than one occasion.  What's so hard to understand? 



Wed, 12/22/2010 - 05:28 | 823404 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Did your uncles fight for a police state where your kid's text messages about math homework to someone on a watch list puts your kid on a watch list without you knowing it?

How about the lack of checks and balances in gov't regarding detainment and due process being withheld where a US flag is flown?

How about taxpayer bailouts for MASSIVE incorporated failure and fraud, while a small business with 10 employees and actually growing cannot hire an additional employee solely attributable to taxes (no healthcare, no nothing)?

Crotch scans at airports for anyone not rich?

Blood for oil on proven fabricated lies?

A Supreme Court siding with incorporated wealth and influence over individual liberty?



PS Fuck the Nazi's they deserved the pounding they got.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 09:26 | 823521 israhole
israhole's picture

Nahh, my great uncles died fighting to free the jews in WWII.  One would think you'd show a little gratitude. 

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:15 | 823071 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Isra, that is a hornet's nest you've stirred. People hate having their version of history torn away from them. Because the "truth", or even just the other side of the story shines a light, too bright on the shallowness and false premise-ness of one's belief system, so carefully cultivated over a lifetime.

There was this thing, but it was just a hollow-cast.


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:59 | 823176 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

The holocaust is the holy grail of revisionist historical subjects. Just ask Norman Finkelstein. His parents died at Auschwitz but he dared to go against the grain on the whole holocaust issue and for this he was branded , a self hating jew, and summarily fired from his job at DePaul university. He now goes to school campuses to talk about Palestine and he is constantly bothered by the jewish sayanim network , who have been ordered to attempt to shut him up. He knows this full well. The Israelis talk about the Nazis all the time, yet they act worse than them with their actions against indigenous Palestinian Arabs on the West Bank and in Gaza.

A discussion of megaphone. Megaphone is brought to you by the inventers of Stuxnet.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:17 | 823077 trav7777
trav7777's picture

this handbook is awesome!

In the FIRST PARAGRAPH, they frame the ENTIRE fucking issue as "jews as victims of racism" and hate!

this is just incredible shit.  Israelis HAVE murdered people, calling them murderers is a matter of perspective.  However, that particular point of view is unacceptable to them, as in the foreword, they sort of lament that all jews do not UNCONDITIONALLY back Israel.

To them it is all a matter of your goy stupidity in not recognizing that Israeli conduct is always virtuous.  This is some kind of defect in you that you do not see it their way.  You always have a "hidden agenda" or some kind of sinister motivation.  This group is ALWAYS THE VICTIM, never the perpetrator, by definition.

There really are two standards of behavior for this clan, yours and theirs; this is afterall what the Torah sets down as their law.  My experience with zionists reflects 100% this belief.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 02:10 | 823321 indio007
indio007's picture

Just for the record Judaism isn't a race. It's  religion. They have twisted reality to try and make bias against a religious belief (which is a conscious choice) analogous with race  (which isn't a choice). 

The closest Jews can get to a "race" is if you believe they all descended from the same patriarch (Abraham) but that would make it a family wouldn't it?


As a religion though , The jewish religion is asking for trouble. I mean it takes a lot of balls to be calling yourselves the "chosen people of god". That's simply fighting words.


I mean let's get real. God likes my family better? No wonder everyone wants to kick your ass.


Wed, 12/22/2010 - 09:21 | 823526 israhole
israhole's picture

Plenty of jews claim to be a race.  Check out some of Menachim Begin's quotes.  In any case, the media, which they control, is full of lies.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:04 | 822768 Hidetora
Hidetora's picture

Go away, Jeff Rense.  Your "kind" ain't welcome here.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 09:29 | 823536 israhole
israhole's picture

Looks like "hide the Torah" is less welcome. :)

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:24 | 822775 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

 "I understand and was also just making a point, with facts.  Here's another fact, we always hear on the controlled media that Hitler just hated the "Chosen Ones" entirely unjustified. Yet, at least 15 years before anybody even knew his name, Germans were referring to their currency as "judefetzen". 

Look it up.  There are always at least 2 sides to a story, yet we only get pounded relentlessly with one."


Not sure I'm understanding here? Boil it down for me.  Thanks.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:09 | 822782 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

The victor gets to write the history.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:52 | 823031 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"The victor gets to write the history."


that was brilliant.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:14 | 822800 keep the bastar...
keep the bastards honest's picture

But this one likes banks

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:41 | 822871 israhole
israhole's picture

Thanks for speaking up. We have the numbers. I see the Megaphone software called all the Israel-firsters to junk my first comment.  They have a lot riding on the lies, you know?  :)

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:00 | 822915 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Really?  No holocaust?  I bet if I gave you a whole 'nother brain, it would get very lonely.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:46 | 823144 dogismyth
dogismyth's picture

yeah....what would you do with thousands of dead bodies after typhoid, cholera, diptheria and starvation set in?  Interesting that NO documents were ever retrieved on the procedures to gas or burn live victims.  Interesting that chemical residues studies showed levels below detection, i.e., it wasn't there.  I'm sick of hearing about the holocaust.  Build'em in Israel, I don't care to look at them, especially in light of what the Israelis are doing to the people of Gaza.  Israelis certainly are not advocates of genocide prevention.  Don't even get me started on 9-11 and their role in security operations for the WTC and airports.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:14 | 822949 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

 I have been watching for the sayanim students.  I don't think they are here yet. You will; know it when they do arrive though. They always use the same tactics time and time again. Usually it is tons of total complete profanity and ad hominom attacks. Stay tuned. I have been watching for them to show up. They will.  I have seen them in action on more than one occasion.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:37 | 823001 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"Usually it is tons of total complete profanity and ad hominom attacks. Stay tuned. I have been watching for them to show up."


I lost all but four members of my family to a Polish concentration camp.  Is that the attack you were looking for? 

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 22:43 | 823009 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

I am sorry for you loss. What do you want me to say?  The discussion was about megaphone. Do you know what that is?  If not, then google it. Read it for yourself. Nobody is making anything up around here. As Benjamin Friedman said one time, Facts are facts.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 23:17 | 823041 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

I am sorry for you loss.  Thank you.

What do you want me to say?  That about does it.

The discussion was about megaphone.  Sure.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!