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Obama Says Turkey's "Ally" Status In Doubt Unless Country Changes Its Pro-Iran, Anti-Israel Stance
Ever since the Gaza flotilla incident, in which several Turkish citizens were killed after a boat headed with supplies to the Palestine (with full politically correct details still being ironed out on who attacked whom and all that), was attacked, relations between Turkey and Israel have been horrendous, and deteriorating rapidly. Demonstrating just how seriously Israel is concerned with the Turkey (which also happens to be a NATO member, and in possession of lots of ultramodern things that go boom) relations hit, is today's first ever visit by Netanyahu to Athens, where he is scheduled to meet with Greek counterpart and country's opposition leader, to streamline Israel's relationship with Turkey's traditional antagonist, wisely driven by the principle of "the enemy of my enemy." (More on Netanyahu's historic visit via Haaretz). Yet where it is getting very dicey, is the just released report from the FT, which notes that "President Barack Obama has personally warned Turkey’s prime minister that unless Ankara shifts its position on Israel and Iran it stands little chance of obtaining the US weapons it wants to buy." And more: "One senior administration official said: “The president has said to Erdogan that some of the actions that Turkey has taken have caused questions to be raised on the Hill [Congress] . . . about whether we can have confidence in Turkey as an ally. That means that some of the requests Turkey has made of us, for example in providing some of the weaponry that it would like to fight the PKK, will be harder for us to move through Congress." It is unfortunate that the administration still believes intimidation is the best policy course when it comes to resolving latent (and soon to be bilaterally uranium-enriched) middle-east conflicts. Should this path of "negotiation" be insisted on, Obama may soon alienate a critical NATO-member and the country located at the most strategic location at the Europe-Middle East nexus. And this does not even account for the political unrest that is sure to develop should the country's 72 million disgruntled citizens decide the US (and its Middle East interests) are not their ally.
More from the FT:
Washington was deeply frustrated when Turkey voted against United Nations sanctions on Iran in June.
When the leaders met later that month at the G20 summit in Toronto, Mr Obama told Mr Erdogan that the Turks had failed to act as an ally in the UN vote. He also called on Ankara to cool its rhetoric about an Israeli raid that killed nine Turks on a flotilla bearing aid for Gaza.
While the two men have subsequently sought to co-operate over Iraq’s efforts to patch together a coalition government, the US makes clear its warning still stands.
“They need to show that they take seriously American national security interests,” said the administration official, adding that Washington was looking at Turkish conduct and would then assess if there were “sufficient efforts that we can go forward with their request”.
US law requires the administration to notify Congress 15 days ahead of big arms sales to Nato allies such as Turkey. Although technically such sales can proceed – unless Congress passes legislation to stop them – resistance on Capitol Hill can push administrations to abandon politically unpopular sales.
Turkey has sought drones for several years. But its drive has taken on greater urgency both because of the continuing US withdrawal from Iraq and the tensions with Israel, which has provided Ankara with pilotless Heron aircraft.
Turkish officials characterise the military relationship with the US as very good but declined to comment on specific procurement requests. The administration has not notified Congress of any big arms sale to Turkey to date this year.
All in all, more news that should merely propel stocks to new record highs, now that global thermonuclear warfare and homo sapiens Extinction Level Events are firmly priced in.
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Turkey is clearly headed away from the guidance of Ataturk and toward sharia. They could give a shit what our fearless leader thinks.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/229224/crisis-turkey/daniel-pipes
Yep it is all about Sharia...
Nothing to do with the tens of billions Turkey lost due to Gulf war 1 and 2.
Nothing to do with the two attempts by Israel to whack Erdogan.
Nothing to do with the US not backing Turkey's entry into the EU or WTO.
Nothing to do with with the US and Israel arming and training the Kurds so they can launch attacks on Turkish troops.
I could go on and on but the clueless will keep jabbering about Islam. The Turks will move into China's orbit and the US will lose a valuable ally who can actually pay for it's weapons unlike the #1 parasite in the Mideast
Just sayin.
Look, Ataturk knew that strict Islam was incompatible with Western democracy and capitalism. Its why he set up so many internal. procedural defenses against it.
Turkey has every right to be pissed off at the "west", particularly western Europe. If they think their future is with the Islamic Republics, then so be it.
Turkey isn't part of the west. I do not care if muslims want to live in an explicitly muslim country. There is only a small, tiny, Hostile minority on this planet who take care to try and manipulate the whole world in their interest. I do not belong to it.
Politicians? Or bankers?
Israel? Zionist Jews?
LOL
LOLASJLFDLOLOSLOLLOLOLjHAHAHAHALKJHALKS:JDAS:HAHAHAHAHHAA
Some thoughts on the Master Race
Jews have owned the west for centuries. Christianity is nothing more than the worship of a Jew as God; what folly! No man, Jew or not, is God, and we are all sons of the creator. Christians are fucking morons.
Beyond religious influence, Jews control the economies of prominent western powers, obviously. Christians, members of the Jewish slave religion, aren't even allowed to lend money at interest! Dimwits!
Not all Jews are owners, but all the owners are Jews. Which western race dominates all others, and is thus the master of all others?
Hitler was quite correct about the Jewish problem; if I were in his position, and were thus condemned to a life as an inferior race, I would pull a ginger Cartman, too. Apologies for the anachronism.
Tangents aside, Jews cannot truly claim the title of global master race, because of the existence of my race.
We have established hegemonies for millennia, and despite each contraction and collapse of empire, our race grows in number and advances greatly during the subsequent rebirth.
Of course, all other races participate in hegemony, but all have fallen under the Jews in the shadow of globalization. Yet, the Jews rule with a tiny minority, and we are one, contiguous race; the most populous race on the planet.
The cause for this phenomena on our end is quite apparent; historically, whenever we conquered an area, we would kill off all the men and utilize the women as vehicles for delivering children; children who would then be considered full Han Chinese. This method for social dominance is in stark contrast to the west's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
This is the only reason Obama can claim to be a nigger. A cracker woman carried him for 9 months, and a cracker family raised him.
The upcoming catastrophic competition between east and west will have tragic consequences, but accomplish little of value for the average and racially inferior.
The west will diminish in size slightly, but Jews will continue to rule. The east will expand in its natural territory: the remainder of the Corean Peninsula and the monkey princess islanders.
It already owns the majority of the southwestern Pacific Islands and Indochina via Jewish style economic domineering, and India is but another herbivore; its fate in the belly of a carnivore has already been predetermined.
And so, World War III won't determine the meaning of "master race," but we, the human species, will have advanced ever so slightly towards procuring a definition and thus being Terran, undoubtedly with a minority ruling race and majority slave race, finally able to project power and our male destructive tendencies outwards in space, towards intelligent creatures with even more differences to hate.
And with such antipathy and competition, technology and advancement shall be driven forth for both sides, until one is destroyed and the other proclaimed the superior; the spiral of time grows greater and more destructive with each pass. The apocalyptic doomsday cult which worships a beaknosed master is more than likely correct, in the long run.
Anyways, a mere present day quantitative analysis can already predict the result of the human racial competition. There aren't enough intelligent Jews (intellect is indeed a rare thing, even amongst a relatively cerebral race such as the Jews) to rule the world.
In conclusion, lol @ you, goyim. You really think Zionists are the only ones who wish to hold the world in the palm of their hands? Moron.
lol, that was no cracker mom bro.
http://www.henrymakow.com/is_obama_literally_americas_fi.html
are they even modern humans?
http://www.michaelbradley.info/
http://pascasher.blogspot.com/2010/05/les-protocoles-des-neanderthaliens...
(above page loads haphazardly, keep trying it's worth it.)
http://tracker.zaerc.com/torrents-details.php?id=15114
Americans?
Yeah, if only those Muslims from Al Qaeda hadn't attacked us on 911 for our freedoms!
The 9/11 was the inside job. None of the alleged hijackers flew any jet before, never were in any flight-simulator since they never passed a written test.
Remember the World Trade Center bldg #7. It was a 47-story building that went down on 9/11 like buildings #1 & 2 but without any plane hitting it. It was blown away as the other two were.
What a great idea! Let's alienate one of the last islamic democracies in the world because they won't toe the line.
/snark
Done, and done.
While we're at it, I propose that we say "F you" to our closest ally of the last 100 years and one of the last remaining countries that sort of likes us. And wait, there's more! Let's piss off our biggest trading partner and lender by accusing them of financial racketeering that's at least 1/100th as bad as what we've been doing!
I don't see how any of this could possibly go wrong!!!
You are incredibly prescient...the future is bright, as bright as the sun.
As bright as the sun a few feet away.....10 million degrees worth.
War seems more imminent everyday, and this time it will be thermonuclear.
The Kurds are better and more useful allies to us than the Turks are. And screw the Turks, they have not been our allies since they tried to extort money from us during the 2nd Iraq war. I'm that they lost money on that war, they deserved to.
I agree with you. And they're sitting on a lot of that Iraqi oil.
US foreign policy has shorter memory than a career pot head and is cheaper than your average crack whore. Seriously, the US allies/enemies change so quickly it is hard to keep track sometimes.
The US as a whole should look back to the first G.W. ... Washington and go back to the policy of non-intervention for a while. Perhaps, the world will be a better place once again. How many of the recent and current conflicts are a result of misguided US intervention at some point in the past? The US defense budget is worse than a coke habit cutting it by just a bit could go a long way to help cleanup the gulf, teach American kids geography and evolution etc.
Yes, it is unfortunate Erdo?an's actions and policies to dismantle the republic are successful. But keep in mind that he was democratically elected just like Bush and Obama ... and he remains popular unlike Bush and Obama. It is hard to maintain balance between secular and Islamic nature of the country. Especially in Turkey where people aren't just separated by secular/religious lines but there is also vast disparity in education and income levels between the populace. A few in Nisantasi should demonstrate to anyone just how conflicted the country is.
I hope the US doesn't dismantle yet another secular Islamic state ... Iran, Iraq ... Turkey next?
"US foreign policy has shorter memory than a career pot head and is cheaper than your average crack whore"
very nice
My sentiments exactly.
And if anyone is wondering what akaucumen is talking about, here's a link:
http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/milestones/farewell/
Please revise the term #1 parasite. It might offend supporters of the #1 tool in the area to keep the pot boiling as the crude oil gang divides and conquers into the 21st Century. It is always about the money.
The horrible, terrible Osama bin Subcontractor and his horrible, terrible Islamo fascists attacked us because they hate our Freedom Fries. 'nuff said.
It has nothing to do with Ataturk, Sharia, etc. Throw the focus on the US who is clearly trying to pick a fight/war with whomever it can. Before this economic downturn is over there is going to be a good sized war so the ZOG can grow the economy again. My opinion is that it's going to be a war against Islam.
Except for Saudi Arabia, our absolute monarchist budiies, and of course Pakistan, who are still our friends (at least this weekI think). The Gulf States don't really count of course, they still accept our money and deal in our arms.
Anywqay I got this memo late, I was preparing to invade Iran and must now change my travel plans.
I agree with you. And it's interesting to see that all of the posters here who bleed for a Palestinian homeland can't seem to extend the same privilige to the Kurds, who have occupied the land that Turkey is contesting as long as the Palestinians have been in the ME and whom the Turks have historically brutally repressed. Let's remember who also committed genocide suring the 20th century.
The Ukranians and Russians have a long memory.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
Very interesting. Thanks.
History is interesting stuff. You assume you are widely read and then uncover a totally new element of history. Thanks.
Hot off the press:
"USS LIBERTY survivor Phil Tourney (right) was on vacation in Southern California with his wife of 30 years, Lisa, when a well-dressed man with an Israeli accent, started up a conversation in a motel lounge. Evidently, this mysterious stranger knew exactly who he was talking to and also the entire business about the Liberty (and appeared to be taping the encounter). He even gloated to Phil about what Israel did to the American sailors that day (the bloody Israelis killed 34)!"
Continue reading here: http://incogman.net
Here we go, 300 comments to follow.
Right. 300 or 300K about ME politics. But what gets me is the Rosana Rosana Danna White House Middle East Foreign Policy Promulgations. Weren't just a tidge ago that we were pissing on Israel and sidling up to the Persian and Arab nations. Now, be gosh and be gollye, its all a-changed. No wonder the offshore Op-Ed pages are openly wondering about WTF's going on here.
People should really watch RT and AJ for a different perspective.
A commentator on RT last night called Obama "firmly controlled" by elite banking interests. Called for elimination of money creation by banks and return to nationalized currencies.
You would NEVER hear anyone get away with saying that on US TV. Our MSM is totally irrelevant now.
I agree. RT is great. Not too long ago, the Guardian had an article announcing the rise of RT and labelling it gov. propoganda. WTF? Maybe it is, but what is western MSM, including the Guardian if not PTB/gov. propaganda?
alex jones is a joo zioshill blowhard, won't say word
one against jews/israel. try whatreallyhappened
or realzionist news if you want news from jews
that will speak out on that subject.
I don't know - tamboo. I just looked at his site and he has this prominently displayed -
Neocon Bolton Renews Call for Israel to Bomb Iranhttp://www.infowars.com/neocon-bolton-renews-call-for-israel-to-bomb-iran/
However, I have seen many posts in the blogosphere say that if you post on his site(s) that he has a Jewish wife, your post is immeadiately deleted.
you are my new hero.
and I agree that the power elite will push the Anglo-American war machine into an economy boosting conflict. the very sad thing about it is the only thing it will accomplish is generational population control.
When you are getting done; sometimes they are pulling it out, sometimes they are sticking it in again.
A strange game.
The ONLY winning move is NOT to play.
How about a nice game of chess?
So true .
Or Else .
I hope this is not about money..
Create the itch to sell the scrach sorta' thing.
No. I want to play Global Thermonuclear War.
Heh heh. I read that in Joshua's voice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHWjlCaIrQo
As expected. We all knew they were about to be shown the exit on NATO and that is why there was no need to defend an attack on a "NATO" vessel by Israel.
The United States is not a sovereign nation.
Not anymore. Sad but true.
So if you are not an ally of Israel you are not an ally of U.S. I'll bet the Turks didn't see that coming.
I suspect it has been long known the inevitability of Turkey's stance against the West and its consequence.
Oh balls I'm an enemy of my own country.
Are you sure it's yours?
They probably thought that a written, signed and ratified treaty meant something.
You'd think they'd know better - having butted heads with the Byzantines for several hundred years.
Shut-up Barry Soetoro.
And here I was actually expecting the US to drop its Israel fanboy-ness down a few notches, because of the Turkish event.
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."
- Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001.
45 of the United States Congressmen are Jewish and almost all hold dual citizenship with Israel. Does this worry anyone else?
From 6 months ago
Senate
(14— 12 Democrats, 2 Independents)
Michael Bennet (D-CO)*
Barbara Boxer (D-CA)
Benjamin Cardin (D-MD)
Russ Feingold (D-WI)
Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
Al Franken (D-MN)*
Herb Kohl (D-WI)
Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Joseph Lieberman (I-CT)
Carl Levin (D-MI)
Bernard Sanders (I-VT)
Charles Schumer (D-NY)
Arlen Specter (D-PA)
Ron Wyden (D-OR)
House
(31— 1 Republican, 30 Democrats)
Gary Ackerman (D-NY)
John H. Adler (D-NJ)*
Shelley Berkley (D-NV)
Howard Berman (D-CA)
Eric Cantor (R-VA)
Stephen Cohen (D-TN)
Susan Davis (D-CA)
Eliot Engel (D-NY)
Bob Filner (D-CA)
Barney Frank (D-MA)
Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ)
Alan Grayson (D-FL)*
Jane Harman (D-CA)
Paul Hodes (D-NH)
Steve Israel (D-NY)
Steve Kagen (D-WI)
Ronald Klein (D-FL)
Sander Levin (D-MI)
Nita Lowey (D-NY)
Jerrold Nadler (D-NY)
Jared Polis (D-CO)*
Steve Rothman (D-NJ)
Jan Schakowsky (D-IL)
Adam Schiff (D-CA)
Allyson Schwartz (D-PA)
Brad Sherman (D-CA)
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL)
Just think of the discount AIPAC got those prostitutes for.. Before you call me a racist, I consider 98% of Congress prostitutes to special interest. My apologies to any prostitutes reading this, your profession is truly much more respectable than politicians but I felt the comparison was legit.
Holy Fuck, Stev3e!! Fully 8% of the Congress is Jewish! 8%! It seems apparent that Isreal has been stacking the deck with Manchurian Candidates for quite some time now.
Honestly, don't you have better shit to worry about?
OK.. so they are only 4X over-represented in congress.. What about Judges? And does the fact that some have duel citizen strike you as a possible conflict of interest? Hmmm... I'm afraid of the answer to that.
4x ? I'd check my numbers again. Course what I'd personally do is quit looking for shit that doesn't exist.
No mosque on Ground Zero! (It's not on Ground Zero and it's not a mosque)
Or near Ground Zero! (How many blocks? 5, 10, 20, 3000 miles? But the strip clubs, betting joints, etc. are OK near hallowed ground)
The republicrats don't make it easy or maybe this is how it's supposed to go?
The Powers That Be know that the average Christian is simply a dumb tool to be used to further their agenda of global domination:
Everyone knows that Christians hate the Islamization going on around the world (i.e. they're jealous). For over 1000 years, using this singular point, TPTB have repeatedly manipulated them to commit the worst atrocities while convincing them that they are doing the right thing.
Somehow, they're too busy obeying orders to realize that lies, invasions, and assassinations can never help the spread of Christianity. What would Jesus do?
+1000
Please use the above argument at your Church.
Even the most naive and ignorant Christians in my community were able to grasp this simple concept.
Jealous????
Naw, man, I just don't want to live in a muslim country ruled by stupid fucking clerics
Gay marriage, the Mosque kerfluffle, also, but less so, the illegal immigrant battle in Arizona is all designed to mislead and confuse you into not knowing where you should stand.
Americans have become anesthetized with affluence, true, but we know the Muslim aspirations from their own avowals.
The Cordoba project (The name given to the attempt to build the mosque near the WTC)is named for the Andalusian Emirate established in the eighth century in Spain. Spain is still considered part of the Islamic empire.
This name was consciously given because Islam holds that once a region is muslim it is muslim forever.
When people caught on that the name 'Cordoba' implied some sort of muslim suzereinity over Manhattan (presumably because the 'martrys' blood made the WTC's ruins hallowed and thus Islamic) the name was quietly changed.
Islam is essentially a militaristic religion. History is studded with examples of their oppression and worse, their continued subjugation of women, non-moslems, and minorities to stone age principles of justice. A religion of peace? Only if you ignore reality. Before you start your rants to the contrary, study the effects on a nation of having 5%, then 10%, then 20%, 50%, 80%, 100% muslim populations. The facts are out there.
We disregard them at our peril.
The most galling aspect of this display of Islamic triumphalism in Manhattan is the thought that their five time daily cry to prayer begins with the very words the hijackers screamed over and over as they drove the airliners into the WTC.
If this mosque is allowed to be constructed, those very words may echo every day over the ashes of the murdered that still inhabit the area.
BTW, is it true that a church destroyed in the attack on the site has be refused permission to be rebuilt?
Americans may be numb with sensuality, but my prayer is that we awaken. Enemies bank on our apathy at their peril.
No love lost for Muslims. They are as you say.
They just didn't do 911, the way you believe. You are being played.
Played - with a capital - P.
It's the Cordoba project because at that time Muslim, Christian and Jewish people lived in relative peace, learned from each other and got along. Study some history before you go spouting off and showing your ignorance.
Dear Doctor Sahab, as I study your words, I surmise not ignorance but deception on your part.
In 711, the Islamic Moors crossed from Africa and conquered Christian Spain. Their occupation of portions of Spain continued until 1492.
In the first place, their conquest was not peaceful, wouldn't you agree? You don't think we're that stupid, do you?
In the second place, if the Franks has not stopped the invading Moslems in the battle of Roncesvalles, wouldn't France also have been blessed with the appellation of 'Islamic Emirate'?
In the third place, do you deny that Muslim Holy Law prescribes that once Islam is the law of a land that that land is forever Muslim?
In the fourth place, why do you not explain to us how it is consonant with your interpretation of the Cordoba project as being intended to foster 'relative peace' among among Muslims, Jews and Christians, when 'Allahu Akhbar" will echo in the streets of Manhattan if this mosque is built, the very last words thousands of innocents heard being screamed over and over by their murderers on 9-11?
Dear Doctor Sahab, I presume you are a learned man. I humbly await the enlightment of your answers to my questions so that I may decide if it is deception I discerned in your previous words.
As far as conquests back in those days, seems like everyone was doing it. Nothing new. But Muslims are forbidden to convert by force. There is no compulsion in religion, it says in the Quran. As far as prior Muslim lands having a pull on Muslim heartstrings, of course they do and don't forget Sicily. Does that mean that every one of the 1 billion plus Muslims are working towards these goals? Be serious. Most people just want to create a stress free life, provide for their families and have some enjoyment. I've long given up trying to convince people like you so go on believing that all Muslims are hell bent on re establishing the Caliphate right here! And by the way, which of the 100 mosques in the city do you hear Allah hu Akbar from?
Probably just escaped your attention, but the WTC was not attacked by people claiming to be representatives of strip clubs and betting joints. It was attacked by people who were Muslims and claiming to act on behalf of Allah. That is a fairly significant detail you omitted somehow.
It was attacked by people who were Muslims and claiming to act on behalf of Allah.
Total hog wash. What are you basing this on, the miracle passport? that survived the flames and the collapse and landed on the streets of Manhattan? So we we can say "Holy Jeez! They was Mooslems!"
Get your head out of your ass. You're being worked.
what flavor was your Kool Aid?
Alienating the one moderate democratic muslim state in the region. Brilliant.
Letting some do-gooders bring some school supplies to Gaza is not the equivalent of Iran trying to build nukes. But with our ridiculous black-or-white neocon foreign policy, we have to act like they're equivalent.
Even GW Bush was able to avoid a needless class of civilizations, but apparently now we're going to walk right into it.
The one constant of history: humans are fucking stupid.
The one constant of history: humans are fucking stupid.
Like a deer they never figure out ; just stay off the fucking road.
+238
Excellent!
Humans are smart. Governments are fucking stupid. Why? Because they are unaccountable.
Reminds me of "As Good As It Gets".
"How do you write politicians so well?"
"I think of a man; then I take away reason, and accountability."
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.” - Charles MacKay
Society is a herd for social animals. They need the comfort of knowing the bridge is safe by seeing people recently crossing it safely. After that they can stop that infernal thinking and they call that peace of mind. So to the above quote, one by one, you will see for yourself, if you can handle the process..it is so lonely... but therin lies the rub.
Democracies are stupid because people in groups have no common sense.
Sorry but it's true. The only thing that will get us out of our mess is another Diocletian.
+1000
For those who thought they were getting rid of the Neocon administration, how does it feel seeing that we seem to have a deeper neocon in the WH now?
So true.
Hardcore Dems are twisting themselves into pretzels in a niave attempt differentiate BO from W.
Right-ieo!
Seems like if one loved or hated W, should be feel'in the same about O. International policies same; Israel, rendition, Gitmo, TARP, war.... Domestic policies; Patriot act, warrant-less wiretapping, corporate money, TARP, new-speak...
The only ones "Optimistic Progressives" have left to compare O to positively is Jimmy Carter.
And the "other" major party is the one who introduced us to this whole mess.
Nice state of affairs, Ollie!
I had no use for Dubya and have even less for Obummer. It's so painfully clear now that both "parties" are sports teams for some elites in the background, and we're all being played like idiots.
But I digress.
I haven't decided whether I'm going to abstain from voting this fall or vote entirely for "third" party candidates.
This neocon goes up to 11!
And he's about as bright as the person you're quoting, notwithstanding the incredible media spin-job.
I diagree with you Chet. Turkey has not been "moderate" for quite some time and has been leaning Islamic for nearky 20 years. Remember they almost had a military coup over the issue. They have gone the way of all of the other benighted ME nations with the burkhas and the maddrassas. All this talk of Turkey being "moderate" and a NATO ally is as dated as that hopey changey stuff.
Cheers, Mitchman.
I've been there. It's not that bad. In fact, it was fabulous. Have you been there? It's very European. I'm guessing what's in your mind is much worse than reality.
And the fact is that the world is filled with different kinds of people, different cultures, languages and religions. That isn't some sort of "problem" we have to "solve", it's just the human condition. So they're Muslim. So what?
I've never been but would very much like to go. I understand it's beautiful. The fact that it is going Islamic is in and of itself a non-event other than it is always a negative to see a country go from a relatively democratic status to what will inevitably be a theocracy.
The "going Islamic" is a big issue to that portion of its population that is more Western-oriented and my recvollection is that a lot of the tensions within the country have arisen because of the Islamic need to assert their hegemony over everyone's life. Again, my memory may be failing me, but I do remember the threat of a military coup over this very issue in the not too distant past.
I have to agree. Spent about 2 weeks in Istanbul and some time along the med. I found Turkey fairly cosmopolitan and had no problems as a gringo. This was about 2004-05 time frame. I enjoyed my stay probably more than Athens. Milestones
http://careandwashingofthebrain.blogspot.com/2010/08/meet-some-pentagon-traitors-who-are.html
Israel-firsters are traitors to the US.
It is budgeted at $100MM and will be two blocks from the twin craters.
"I would like to know who is financing it."
Me for one. I sent them a few bucks.
Because this is America, and every religion is legal, and they can build a center wherever the fuck they want.
Here's the 1st Amendment. Not the 16th Amendment. Not some afterthought passed in the mid-1900's. The very first fucking Amendment as written and passed by our country's founders:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
People trying to stop this Muslim center don't even understand what America is.
Right on, Chet.
The FF had every opportunity to include the word 'christian' in the Constitution, but they didn't. Freedom of speech and religion for ALL. The First Amendment could not be more simple or clear.
I, for one, am embarrassed that we are still looking at two craters in lower Manhattan. The entire city of Dubai - including the world's tallest building - has been planned & built since 2002, while we accomplish nothing. It's f-ing embarrassing.
Embarrassing indeed. Almost ten years have passed and we can't build a building. How many other towers were built in the real estate boom between 2001 and 2006?
I would suggest that the psycological effect of the empty crater does more for the controllers than a memorial tower would. We can't have held off this long because of a lack of funding. Almost everybody in the country would donate to that cause. So what else prevents things from being done? Politics maybe? Sure, but politically, how could you not be for a 9/11 memorial? I'm sure they've gotten plenty of suggestions, so it can't be that they don't have any good ideas. Is it red-tape from the owners of the property? Surely the city could issue some sort of exception for this special case. This is just my opinion, but we were defeated as a nation on that day, and the scar in the earth is a sort of metaphor for the end of our empire. It crushed our spirit in a lot of ways. That's just my take, probably way off, but we know that 'the tower' is a major archtype. I'm thinking out loud here, feel free to correct me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tower_(Tarot_card)
The owners were quite happy to see those towers come down. The majority of renters were state and gov agencies; the price was low enough that financial institutions that cared not about their people like Morgan or Cantor Fitz located there. They were loaded with sprayed-on and needed to be removed asbestos. Not building what was a mistake is no big mistake or embarrassment. It's always about the money.
+10,000
Interesting history with video on the Protocols of Zion:
http://incogman.net/08/2010/the-real-background-to-the-protocols-of-zion/
The loony linker returns. Protocols were proven forgeries about 50 years ago. Fail.
And yet amazingly accurate to this day!
How come you label anybody that doesn't agree with you? More importantly, why is it you never offer up any content? Surely you're views are represented someplace? You'd think Hasbara would have a library full of video, being their evil mission is to "shape public opinion" to be pro-Israel.
proved forgeries by who?
proved forgeries by who?
Zionists perhaps?
Dedicated to awakening my fellow White Americans to the real common denominator to our race and country's destruction. I've studied the problem for many years and now work hard to expose these nation wrecking parasites every chance I get.
----
Stay classy Israhole
Why do you put "my fellow White Americans" in bold? Are you suggesting being White is something to be ashamed of? jews have the JTF (jewish task force), ADL, etc. In fact, all races have organizations to promote themselves, yet if a White person even says "White", the jews get all freaked out, that is, unless you're a Black American? LOL!
That's a good vid.. It's a forgery though, some would say. But yet, they never comment on the fulfillment of it and how it reads as a manifesto that has been 90% carried out.
max, what exactly did you think was good about that video?
I found it to be informative by giving the historical account of how they were brought to the scene. In addition, I think it brings to light a suspicious legitimacy to what the protocols "allegedly" state and where we are socially.
There comes a time when one should question their incredulity even for a moment and entertain to possibility of a concerted effort to control our population. I simply see the so called "international Jew" conspiracy as having too many coincidences to be completely ignored. But, that's just me.
If the opposite is true, and those like me are just paranoid, then what does it hurt to openly discuss at least the ostensible connections and relationships with the U.S. and Israel? If everything we say is wrong then why is it considered so dangerous? Why is it so dangerous and hateful to disagree with consensus and think maybe AIPAC has too much power over our Government? America's support of Israel is protected and guarded like a religeous belief. That has always puzzled me..
The concern is that any lie repeated enough eventually becomes perceived as truth. And historically, these seemingly innocuous and benign "questions" have metastasized into something much more malignant. The entire video was trying to make connections between people who, save for their religious affiliation, have nothing in common yet uses this loose connection as proof of an international cabal controlling the world behind the scenes. (Afterall, how can one say that Ben Bernanke and Leon Trotsky have similar ideologies?) Yet if the same method was used for any other religious group, the same case for an international cabal amongst them could be made...yet it never is.
It's not your questions that I fear...it's your presuppositions which lead to incorrect answers that get put into the echo chamber of the internet and feeds itself, grows, and becomes "fact". I understand there is a lot of propaganda in the MSM, but that doesn't mean that alternative news is any more factual just because it contradicts the current zeitgeist.
'The concern is that any lie repeated enough eventually becomes perceived as truth. '
Bingo.. Like the lie that we are in Iraq and Afgan because they hate our freedom? Like we need to make the world safe for democracy? WMD's?.. I have a feeling our definition of a lie may differ.
'And historically, these seemingly innocuous and benign "questions" have metastasized into something much more malignant.'
When? What specifically are these questions you speak of and the malignant consequence?
'The entire video was trying to make connections between people who, save for their religious affiliation, have nothing in common yet uses this loose connection as proof of an international cabal controlling the world behind the scenes. (Afterall, how can one say that Ben Bernanke and Leon Trotsky have similar ideologies?)'
I think the ideologies of BB are not yet known. Notice how powerful they both are? Notice how disproportionate it is in our Government, Banking, Media, Entertainment Jewish representation is?.. Of course not, but I did. And i'm not afraid to take a hard look at it.
'Yet if the same method was used for any other religious group, the same case for an international cabal amongst them could be made...yet it never is.'
Absurd, I won't reply to this as it is a waste. Unless you can use a specific example I can address.
'It's not your questions that I fear...it's your presuppositions which lead to incorrect answers that get put into the echo chamber of the internet and feeds itself, grows, and becomes "fact". I understand there is a lot of propaganda in the MSM, but that doesn't mean that alternative news is any more factual just because it contradicts the current zeitgeist.'
Incorrect according to who? You?. Alternative news cannot claim a monopoly on the truth, but it sure as hell has a lot more credibility in my book when someone risks everything they own by standing up and saying something against our government or Israel compared to the ones that get fat off of towing the line for them. !!
I don't think you fear my questions, you fear the world waking up to the truth.
Well, I'm glad somebody's on the case!
I think any number of Jews in society is going to be deemed "disproportionate" by white nationalists, Nathan Kapner, Incog Man, and Storm Front because the only number of Jews acceptable to them...is zero. What would be acceptable to you?
BTW, here's a quote from that video you found to be so informative, (narrator, whom I'm assuming is Nathan Kapner) "Their children listen to negroid rythms and chant negroid rap diddies because [Jews] control the popular music industry..." (Part 2, min 3:40)
Does that represent your feelings as well...because it's not just Jews he has a problem with, it's all races of people that aren't white. On the side, here are some recommended sites to visit:
If this is what you consider "alternative news"...while it is alternative, I can assure you it's neither news nor new. It's hate propaganda and it's been around for a long time. And if you don't know what malignant consequences I could possibly be referring to I'm going to assume you're one of those people who add the word "hoax" after holo.
Well.. I agree with what you are saying about White supremacist. I don't like them and find them to be the most ignorant on the face of the planet. But, they do present some information that is difficult to get and is accurate. Unfortunately they discredit more than they help when trying to peal back the onion layers.
I will not defend those people, but I will support part of the message if indeed I feel it is true and represents a threat to me or my country.
There is hardly a video or documentary or blog or book that I agree with 100%. All I can do is take the information and compare it with my personal observations to evaluate its content.
I know i'm considered a racist, but, I accept that because the ones in control have that power.
I personally think the average Jew has been the most assaulted by Zionism. I would compare them closely to the Neo-con American that sees Muslims as a threat. Only the Neo-cons have not seen the reprocussions of their leaders decision to this point. Soon to come though.
Of course, I will be mocked for this statement, but there are more than a handful of Jews I admire with utmost sincerity and yes, my best friend is half Jewish. I was the best man at his wedding and he is in charge of my affairs if something were to happen to me unexpectedly. He is also the only person I trust to have the combination to my safe.
To oppose Israel and/or jewish influence in this country is not racist or dangerous. No matter how many times it is repeated as being the truth. ;)
It's called confirmation bias. People look for facts that support their beliefs rather than forming beliefs that are supported by facts. Max, I'm not judging your character because I don't know you. But your words are very telling.
Seeing causality where there is only coincidence leads people to assume that if some historical figures, deemed today to be "evil", were Jewish, it must, therefore, be their Jewishness which caused them to be evil as no other bond can be formed linking them together. (such as Trotsky and Bernanke) This leads some to project that evilness upon all Jewish people, otherwise they would have to truly examine their initial hypothesis and discover it to be incorrect. The truth being, that there is no connection. Many "evil" people have been Christian as well. But, to make the same assertion as some do about Jews, would be to implicate yourself among the evil. Knowing how absurd that is, as you said above, you dismiss it out of hand. It does not even warrant a response from you. Yet, you carelessly do that which you claim to be absurb towards Jews...simply because you are excluded from that grouping. An accusation of "them" is not an implication of self.
The only coincidences I see are that of your beliefs and WN beliefs. You don't have to defend them, but as you said, you "feel" it is true. But fact and feeling are not the same, Max.
It's called confirmation bias. People look for facts that support their beliefs rather than forming beliefs that are supported by facts.
Yes, I agree. I also think you are projecting yourself on me.. That statement also covers your projection claim as well.
'Seeing causality where there is only coincidence'
Well, you are saying that I base my views on 2 men. That is silly. I have spent thousands of hours educating myself from a variety of sources. Jewish and Gentile/Christian alike. I know it works out well for you to dismiss this as a "blanket" hatred of a race but that is simply not the case regardless of how eloquently and convincing you can be to the untrained eyes. I do however, agree that many horrible men in history have been Christian as well..
The only coincidences I see are that of your beliefs and WN beliefs. You don't have to defend them, but as you said, you "feel" it is true. But fact and feeling are not the same, Max.
I would not concern myself with what you see especially since you are able to dismiss any historical or statistical data as coincidence. Some can connect the dots, some cannot. Your view of a fact is simply not the same as mine. I will stick to my conscience and not allow the International Jew and our unconditional support of Israel to shrink from controversy.
It's simply not the "imaginary friend" theory you try to paint it as..
At DocLogo: I have to go with Max on this one. Jewish people make up approximately 5% of the U.S. population, but make up 8% OF CONGRESS!!!
As pointed out by an above poster, there are 45 Jews in our very highest levels of Government!!
This disproportionate representation must be investigated and corrected; I for one want to thank those who dedicate countless hours of their time looking into this unacceptable scenario.
Actually as of 2008 people claiming to be Jewish were about 1.2% of the US population, a decline (as many other denominations including "Protestant" are also in decline). So by that statistic they would be represented in Congress at roughly 6.5x their proportion of the total population.
Of course, a better metric would be their proportion of the age 50-80 population since most of Congress is in that range, but the numbers would still come out at 4-5x.
Is that a large enough disproportion to be noteworthy? I don't know. Certainly not quite a grand conspiracy.
Dual citizenship is quite another issue though. How would people feel if 8% of Congress had dual citizenship with Mexico? With Russia? With China?
Actually, my numbers were mistaken. You are correct about the population percentage.
Correct me if I'm wrong, (because I admit to not knowing) isn't comparing Isreali dual citizenship to Mexican kind of apples to oranges? I thought it was sort of religious/symbolic.
I'm not aware of any nation, including Israel, that grants dual citizenship as a religious/symbolic matter, nor do I know of anyone (and I know several dual citizens, including US/UK and US/Israel) who considers the "other" citizenship to be merely religious or symbolic.
Most American Jews do not have dual citizenship with Israel. For those in politics to be different is, I think, noteworthy.
America's support of Israel is ... like a religeous belief.
America's support of Israel is a religious belief.
Yeah.. I went to a Christian (Baptist) school at a younger age.. I'm all too familiar with their ridiculous view of the world.
They can't wait until Christ comes back and sends all the Jews, Muslims and even Catholics to hell.. But, they are glad Israel was created because then that prophecy can be fulfilled.. How disgusting. Ohh.. but don't worry, they feel the righteous Jews will fall to their knees when Christ appears and convert in time to be saved.
ohhh yeah.. been there.. done that... not for me.
If Christ appears, you Max will also fall to your knees I think.
This time, why don't you light the dynamite stick when you shove it up your ass?
I recall an American citizen was also killed in the flotilla massacre.
Just more proof of Israeli control over Washington up to and including the President.
You obviously don't understand what a massacre is. Try this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
Since you'd rather nitpick than address the point:
massacre: To kill indiscriminately and wantonly; slaughter.
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/massacre
No, actually, you don't know what a massacre is. It is a single act, or one time event. A genocide is an ongoing campaign.
I also like how you try to justify infinite violence today with using something that happened a hundred years ago. Hell, the English drove my ancestors off of their land in Ireland. I guess that gives me a right to gun down British civilians on civilian vessels?
And for the record:
mas·sa·cre
(ms-kr)
n.
1. The act or an instance of killing a large number of humans indiscriminately and cruelly
So 20 miilion killed does not count? Many of the perpetrators fell out of favor with Stalin and ended up where?????
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
Beautiful Thank you.
Please Read the details about so called Armenian Genocide.
You may try understand the other sides opinion:
http://tallarmeniantale.com/
It pales in significance to the events that took place on the USS Liberty in 1967. The statute of limitations will not expire on that crime.
The statute of limitations will not expire on that crime.
Thanks for the reminder. The same for 9/11.
Obama Says Turkey's "Ally" Status In Doubt Unless Country Changes Its Pro-Iran, Anti-Israel Stance..
Doesn't Barry need to change his pro-Muslim stance as well?? Oh, I forgot- he is already considered an enemy.
Enough already. Israel chose their path and it is not our job to protect them. So sick of this fake war on terrorism being used as an excuse for meddling. Jews need to go back to Germany and Poland enough of this shit.
Please return to Europe immediately, descendent of European interlopers.
Only if I get to take back my homeland and put the current settlers into a ghetto and keep them there for 70 years. And shoot their children when they fling rocks or insults.
You have already been treating Native Americans like that for over 200 years. It's not enough?
Don't you mean the slave traders? Over 70% of them were jews, and 95% of European Americans (non-jew) had nothing to do with slavery, yet our controlled media doesn't talk about anything else, except the supposed holocaust.
The lies are catching up with you! :)
Since you live here as well, you're as guilty as any of us for the treatment of Native Americans, just like your support for terrorist Israel. It's like a career for you, and the same game no matter where you go, like Russia and the Bolshevik Revolution, where your people killed 60 million Christians.
A lot of those slaves were Muslims so Islam has been in America for hundreds of years.
"It is unfortunate that the administration still believes intimidation is the best policy course when it comes to resolving latent"
its unfortunate to modestly state your position??? bs. this crap of always coddling everyone has to stop. good for Pres. Obama.
It is unfortunate that the administration still believes intimidation is the best policy course when it comes to resolving latent (and soon to be bilaterally uranium-enriched) middle-east conflicts.
I haven't noticed that Obama is such a hard-ass in this regard but what form of intimidation-free negotiation do you think has had a better track record in the Mid-East - involving the US or not?
Besides, the system we currently operate under is: Go nuclear and the worrywarts of the 'International Community' will give you all kinds of goodies. Incentives matter and any tin-pot dictator would be a fool not to throw everything he can behind getting a viable nuclear program off the ground ASAP.
There are lots of dynamics here.
One of Turkey's core concerns is alluded to in the article, that of Kurdish secessionist movements. The cack-handed decision to support sovereignty for Albanian secessionists in Kosovo, was a flagrant re-write of international rules, and a ray of hope for secessionists everywhere.
Russia thereby recognised Abkhazia and Ossetia when the moment came, to rub into the noses of the US & NATO that they will NOT be the sole judges of who can secede from whom, and that every world power can play THIS game.
And all this in a backdrop of a fractured Iraq, the oil-rich northern third being the possible cradle of the first Kurdish state, which is Turkey's nightmare.
And who can begrudge the Kurds; they have a much better case than the Albanians (the alleged genocide of which was a media fairy tale; meanwhile, the USA brazenly sells advanced weaponry to Turkey for the purpose of killing Kurds), and unlike the Albanians, do not start from a position where they already have a state to call their own.
Further complications are that Turkey is facing tensions & nascent conflicts all around its borders (Greece, Iraq, Georgia, Iran, Armenia vs Azerbaijan; Israel vs everybody) and Iran is yet another project that the USA might choose to 'balkanise' thus creating another hostile Kurdish statelet on Turkey's borders.
Into this cauldron, the USA is pushing Turkey to be an active ally for Israel, including close economic ties and military collaboration. Given the fireworks that might kick off at some point in the region, Turks probably wonder how their state has become joined to the hip with Israel, and what is in it for them.
Meanwhile, right or wrong, Turkish hope for Northern Cyprus remain unanswered. Ditto for EU entry.
Finally, Turkey sees the benfits of having good relations with Russia; they are both Black Sea states, and it would be nice to have good relations with a neighbour for once, rather than allowing the USA to use Turkish territory to intimidate or launch attacks against them. But this budding friendship of Russia/Turkey is kryptonite to NATO interests.
Oh yeah, the stage is set for a major fall out between Turkey and the USA; there are more than enough dynamics without having to refer to issues of islam, which is unlikely a factor at all.
The economies of the US and most of Europe are going down the tubes and Turkey has by far the largest standing army in the region. That's kind of all you need to know...
us denies giving Turkey ultimatum...
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/White_House_denies_giving_Turkey_ul_0816201...
+1
So finally, after preaching to Europeans that we were xenophobes and downright racist, Jack Shephard of the Western World sees the glimmering light on the Turkish horizon. It pulsates 'theocracy', mr. Obama.
Turkey is not a western country, it's a nonsecular society trying to blind people with their icon Attaturk. On the other hand, who really cares. By the time the Turks are ready to cross the Bosporus, there won't be any fuel left for their ferries.
Obama & the US State Dept. are kidding themselves.
If Turkey leave NATO and impose a no-fly zone, going to be fun resupplying US troops in northern Iraq.
Barry wont sell the weapons? betya Uncle Vladimir will, southern gas pipeline from the black sea into the Med via Turkey will seal the deal.
Exactly.
The US has never had less leverage. The rest of the world is laughing at us behind our backs, and rightfully so. The US is a joke. We need to get over ourselves and get back to the Constitution.
If there is any dignity/future to be salvaged, it begins with the Constitution. Everything else is a distraction. The idea of 'empire' was folly, and it's now over... done... finished.
Who even came up with the idea of Emipre? We were a Constitutional Republic avoiding foreign entaglements.
Benjamin Franklin.
Hi RichardP-who-threatens-to-ban. I never heard that before re. Benjamin Franklin. Care to elaborate? As with a link?
Thanks
I agree;
Its interesting to see comments here, some people have no knowledge about Turkey, its history, but they write comments here without understanding details behind the actions taken.
Turkey is a secular state, people, after trying left and right parties many years, chosen an Islamic party AKP 7 years ago but they also did the same corruption., and soon( will be elections next year) Turkish people will kick out the Erdogan government. Most Probably there will be a coalition government excluding AKP( Erdogans party ).
This whole issue is not Muslim/christian difference.. its all about Turkeys new foreign policy, Turkey is growing very fast, its economy and banks are in much better shape than many European countries, looking for new ways to use its increased powers and its conflicting with US policy. Turkey is not the same country 50 years ago who will do anything US says, many things has changed since the Cyprus war, This new Turkish policy makes US/Israel plans unpredictable.
I said Cyprus war because this is the tipping point of the relations between US and Turkey, not the recent flotilla attack and the US official response..
When Turkish army attacked Northern Cyprus, US congress Banned selling any weaponry to Turkey ( a NATO ally who until that time purchased 100% of all weaponry from US) for 10 years.
This crippled Turkish army, and Turkish army decided to make its own weapons as much as she can do.
Yes Turkey still needs to buy some weaponry (like Apache/Cobra helicopters) from US to fight with Kurdish separatists but she can buy this from other sources easily( Russia / Italy...) and the new Turkish made fighter helicopter project is under progress( within 5-7 years she will be able to make her own fighter helicopters). So if Obama Government is saying you cannot buy weapons from us,well its a decision but its not a strong argument against Turkey, Turkey is already making most of its sophisticated weaponry, buys the ones it cannot make but in retaliation Turkey can close the Adana US base and cripple the Iraq supply lines for US army which was and still vital in Iraq war. This retaliation will have more dire consequences especially when we decide who will control the Iraq after the US army left Iraq. Without Turkish support neither US nor Israeli forces are capable to control the area without Turkish help.
Turkish policy against Iran is just a neighbouring country policy, the two countries are neighbours for more than thousand years and neighbours cannot follow an hostile policy like US/Iran. This means Turkey will always give limited support to Iran just like China and Russia.
Turkish people are quite different than other Muslim countries, most Turkish people( 80%) are secular Muslims and not very religious.
Obama government may decide not to sell weapons for a NATO ally but the Turkish people will get this as a negative message and push future governments not to trust/follow US policies.
Turkish people will always accept Americans as friends but the two countries will not be in the same political axis anymore. Same will be true for Israel. Turkish people has no problem with Israeli citizens but with Israeli government.
So. What is Obama gonna do, withdraw from NATO? Plus up the Greek economy through a rapid increase in defense outlays? Perhaps call in all of the Turkish credit card receivables? Position the administration into choosing to firm up its alliance with the Kurdish Iraqi's?
Do your dance
Do your dance
Do your dance quick mama
Come on baby tell me what's the word
Word up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q-k-uN73Gk