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Obama vs Ryan: A Comparison Of Two Utterly Unbelievable Deficit Cutting Plans

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Lately everyone and their kitchen sink is coming up with one after another grandiloquent deficit cutting plan, one more unbelievable than the next. At this point nobody believes that either administration can cut $4 million let alone $4 trillion, which seems to be the bogey targeted by both the Obama and the Ryan budget proposals. Too bad no one can explain just how we get from point A to point B. But the show must go on until America finally depletes the good will of the once-reserve currency which now has become a bigger funding currency than the Yen, and pulls the plug. Until then, here is a comparison of the two most recent plan proposed to get America from its current deplorable state, which for those paying attention is located some $27 billion dollars away from the official debt ceiling following today's $13 billion auction. Courtesy of Reuters, we present a compare and contrast of the Obama and the Ryan plans. Feel free to heckle at will.

Comparing Obama, Ryan budget plans, from Reuters

DEFICIT REDUCTION

  • Obama calls for $4
    trillion in deficit reduction to be phased in over 12 years or less.
    Three-fourths would come from spending cuts and interest savings and the
    rest by streamlining the tax code. A "fail-safe" would trigger
    across-the-board spending cuts if debt reduction goals are not met.
  • It calls for reducing deficits as a percentage of gross domestic
    product from around 10 percent currently to 2.5 percent in 2015 and 2
    percent by the end of the decade.
  • Ryan's 2012 budget reduces
    deficits over the next decade by $4.4 trillion, calls for $5.8 trillion
    in spending cuts and lowers tax rates for businesses and individuals. It
    would set a binding cap on government spending to keep it below 20
    percent of the $14 trillion U.S. economy.
  • Ryan's plan brings the deficit as a share of the economy to 2.4 percent in 2015 and 1.6 percent in 10 years.

MEDICARE, MEDICAID, SOCIAL SECURITY

  • Obama says Social Security is not contributing to the current debt
    and its financial future should be dealt with separately with bipartisan
    agreement.
  • On healthcare, his plan calls for $480 billion in
    Medicare and Medicaid savings by 2023. He would strengthen Medicare's
    Independent Payment Advisory Board and save Medicaid money by
    streamlining the formula for giving federal funds to states.
  • Obama's plan emphasizes improving care quality to achieve savings for
    the Medicare healthcare program for the elderly. He would allow Medicare
    to use its purchasing power to negotiate lower costs on prescription
    drugs and he would speed up the availability of cheaper generic drugs.
    He wants upper limits to be set on Medicaid payments for durable medical
    equipment.
  • Ryan would repeal the healthcare overhaul enacted
    into law last year. He wants to eventually eliminate the current
    fee-for-service program for Medicare. Instead, future retirees would get
    a federal subsidy based on income and health status to shop for medical
    coverage from private insurers. Medicaid would become a block grant
    program where the federal government gives states a chunk of money to
    run the health program for the poor without federal interference.
  • Ryan calls for bipartisan negotiations on Social Security.

TAXES

  • Obama calls for ending Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthiest. He wants
    Congress to overhaul the tax code to make it simpler and fairer and
    reduce the number of tax breaks that favor one taxpayer over another. He
    calls for a corporate tax overhaul to help lower the corporate tax
    rates.
  • Ryan also calls for a tax law overhaul. His plan would
    cut the top corporate and personal tax rates to 25 percent, down from 35
    percent.

DEFENSE AND OTHER DISCRETIONARY SPENDING

  • Obama
    wants a fundamental review of U.S. military missions and capabilities
    around the world. His plan proposes some $400 billion defense spending
    cuts that would not compromise U.S. defense capabilities.
  • On
    non-security discretionary spending, Obama's plan seeks another $200
    billion in savings beyond the $400 billion proposed in his February
    budget blueprint for fiscal 2012, which begins Oct. 1.
  • Ryan's
    budget leaves military spending mostly untouched. But it does reflect
    $178 billion in savings identified by Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
    Some $100 billion is reinvested in combat capabilities and the rest is
    used for deficit reduction. Ryan calls for bringing other spending down
    to 2008 levels and freezing it there for five years.
 

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Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:03 | 1169790 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Sellout budget passed House.

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:07 | 1169801 -Michelle-
-Michelle-'s picture

Lord, what fools these mortals be...

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:18 | 1169855 Thomas
Thomas's picture

I won't believe anything until I see a plan that is front-loaded with the pain.

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:31 | 1169900 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Why would you believe that even?  How about one year budgets...a spending cut fight each year...until the thing is balanced?  Who actually believes that Congress will direct its spending to meet Congressman Ryan's expectations...FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS?  You have to be kidding me.  As much as I think he is actually a decent fellow, it is nonsense to proceed with a 10 year budget. That trick has been used too many times already.

That's like investing in JP Morgan shares based on J. Dimon's qrtly reports....useless.

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:11 | 1170082 Ben Fleeced
Ben Fleeced's picture

Would this work for you?

An appropriate budget for next fiscal year would be a simple bill:

1)      Approved Federal positions would be returned to the level on January 1, 2006.

2)      The budget total would be set to the total Federal revenue received in the fiscal year ending October 1, 2011. 

3)      The President would be authorized to set the priorities as to how this money would be allocated among the agencies and departments with the restriction that the military budget could not decline below their actual expenditures for Fiscal 2010.

4)      The President would be required to present to Congress by January 1, 2012, the agency-by-agency and department-by-department spending allocations or the agencies not so allocated would have their budgets set to $0.00 for the fiscal year.

5)      All moneys would be assumed to be appropriated for only one fiscal year with no money being allowed to be rolled over to another year in not spent.

6)      The Judiciary’s budget would be set to the same amount as appropriated for fiscal 2008.

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 17:35 | 1170450 PD Quig
PD Quig's picture

I carry no water for the GOP, but to compare O'Buttfucker's absence of a plan to Ryan's printed and observable plan is really quite inane. What Obumble slung last night was a bunch of class warfare bullshit unencumbered by even the barest hint of reality. Even as was his "budget" of a few months ago. Obama is an economic illiterate of the first order (“profits to earnings ratio”) and has demonstrated that he has no intention or ability to lead on this issue.

Obviously, the wheels are going to have to come off before anything is done—and I, for one, am ready for it. A few bankers hanging upside down from lampposts along with a few congressmen would do the country a world of good.

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:05 | 1169799 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

This will pass with compromises on both sides.  Taxes and spending will increase.

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:07 | 1169802 fbrothers
fbrothers's picture

More jibber jabber from the kings of BS in D.C.

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:17 | 1169847 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

Well said, fbrothers. 

Doc Burry resurfaces and has much to say.

http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2011/04/video-burry-cls/

http://mattpauls.com/info/2011/02/michael-burry-interview/

 

 

 

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:30 | 1169913 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

It would set a binding cap on government spending to keep it below 20 percent of the $14 trillion U.S. economy.

Binding, like the current debt ceiling?

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:05 | 1169803 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Everyone needs to ask themselves one simple question, do you support the bankers or the republic?

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:18 | 1169843 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

And the difference is?

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:26 | 1169887 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

One you work for as a slave and the other as a free person.  Admittedly, neither promises that you will survive.  People have forgotten that bit and everyone today wants a guaranty.  Sorry, nature doesn't work like that.

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:55 | 1170014 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

No problem - I get your point.  What I meant to imply was in our current configuration the republic is a wholy owned subsidiary of the banks.  So the republic debases the currency to the benefit of the banks and our 'coins' are constantly being clipped.  It isn't direct slavery, but the effects are pretty similar.

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:23 | 1170149 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Sounds like it is time for a new republic.

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:09 | 1169807 UGrev
UGrev's picture

Comparison? really? That mother fucker, Ryan, voted FOR TARP. There is no comparison. They are the same fucks on a stick. 

Wake me up when the food riots start and bullets start flying.. 

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 06:42 | 1171672 Hexus
Hexus's picture

What's so hard to believe? Ryan voted for TARP because he's a cum slut for the oligarchs. They want to do away with social programs so that there's more delicious tax payers money to steal.

If you hadn't noticed yet the Tea Party is controlled by Koch, one of the richest men in New York, if you think they are sticking up for the working man/middle class you are wrong. Ryan wants to cut taxes for the super wealthy while cutting services and increasing taxes for everyone else, enough said.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 21:02 | 1174886 PuppetRepubl1c
PuppetRepubl1c's picture

"he's a cum slut for the oligarchs."

 

LOL +1!

 

A lot of people haven't read Paul Ryans plan, he wants to INCREASE taxes for the middle class.  His previous plan called for doing away with corporate taxes and introducing a national sales tax.  Wake up people this is a shakedown!

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:07 | 1169808 Shameful
Shameful's picture

So we have two phoney visions of the future, ok. Since it's as binding as any other political promise this is really just another boring piece of fiction. Should at least spice it up with a murder mystery...or is that Zimbabwe Ben's job "Who Killed King Dollar?".

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:07 | 1169811 Audacity17
Audacity17's picture

The "tax rate" is totally separate and apart from the "effective tax rate"...which includes exemptions, credits, deductions etc.  Corporations have high rates.....wait, what did GE pay again?? So Reuters blithely reporting that Ryan cuts the "rates" without any more detail is propaganda.

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:17 | 1169850 Argonaught
Argonaught's picture

Ding ding ding.  The exact same juvenille game is played by local gvt's with property tax.  The rate is irrelevant.  It's the levee that matters.  My property taxes have increased 3 years in a row all while my the trustees claim to have fought the good fight and held the line on the tax rate.  And people fall for this shit?  Oh...doesn't help that the appraised value of my home for tax purposes is also marked-to-myth.

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:09 | 1169819 youngman
youngman's picture
  • Obama wants a fundamental review of U.S. military missions and capabilities around the world. His plan proposes some $400 billion defense spending cuts that would not compromise U.S. defense capabilities.
  • how do they know this?  How would Obama know this..he was a community organizer..that is all.  He will still order them to war..but he will not give them supplies or the ROE´s to fight it....think Clinton and Blackhawk down.....what a crock.....and Obama says Social Security does not affect the "current" budget deficit...its the 5 years from now that it is the gorillia in the room...its over folks..plan for collapse

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:21 | 1169865 vxpatel
    vxpatel's picture

    i hope you go to afghanistan/iraq, your country needs you...

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 19:23 | 1170771 andybev01
    andybev01's picture

    Afraqistanya.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:30 | 1169896 LawsofPhysics
    LawsofPhysics's picture

    America better get its own house in order otherwise terrorists 6,000 miles away will be the least of its worries.

    If anyone wants to go to war, let them fund it with their own money.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:10 | 1169820 surfersd
    surfersd's picture

    If Omama had come up with any kind of cogent argument to meet half way the markets would be acting a lot differently. His speech just took the last legs out of $$ support. Not that it matter, but it is just as well we get on with it.

     

    Silver Bitchez.  Paas becomes a huge buy in here somewhere.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:13 | 1169825 Deepskyy
    Deepskyy's picture
  • Obama says Social Security is not contributing to the current debt and its financial future should be dealt with separately with bipartisan agreement.
  •  

    That is the only point you need to look at to understand just how doomed we are.  We have elected an idiot, an empty suit, a rabble rouser, and a bankster shill depending on which day of the week it is.

     

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:26 | 1169879 OldTrooper
    OldTrooper's picture

    No, we've elected at least 530 idiots, empty suits, rabble rousers and bankster shills.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:25 | 1169882 Deepskyy
    Deepskyy's picture

    I stand corrected and retract my previous statement. 

     

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:59 | 1170030 newbee
    newbee's picture

    bingo

    Fri, 04/15/2011 - 01:55 | 1171536 Dan Alter
    Dan Alter's picture

    Social Securuty is a pension insurance fund with about 2.5 trillion of US govt IOUs in it paying 2% interest. Pay the 30 year rate of over 4% and we would be talking about a SS tax decrease and a benefit increase. It is not broke, our country is because our politicians have literally stole our savings. Any private pension fund earning 2% would have its trustees put in jail for deliberately stealing the trust funds monies.

     

    In short Social Security is not an entitlement. It is massively over funded.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:15 | 1169827 jkruffin
    jkruffin's picture

    So far, I only see two guarantees:

     

    1.  QE3 is now guaranteed

    2. Gold is now guaranteed $2000

     

    The Debt Limit ceiling is not going to be raised in time, and that is going to send yields soaring, and metals soaring to higher highs.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:16 | 1169833 Confused
    Confused's picture

    "Ryan also calls for a tax law overhaul. His plan would cut the top corporate and personal tax rates to 25 percent, down from 35 percent."

     

    Why is this not surprising. 

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:18 | 1169840 Audacity17
    Audacity17's picture

    Please review my comment above before you make any more stupid ass comments.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:20 | 1169859 Confused
    Confused's picture

    Yes. I'm familiar with the GE situation. My comment was more based on the fact that not only is this unrelated, but its the same old argument/point that gets trotted out all the time. The logic is laughable. 

     

    But thanks for your kind words. Its always nice to have a civil conversation that starts this way. 

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:29 | 1169892 Audacity17
    Audacity17's picture

    Please elaborate on this same old argument/point.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:32 | 1169904 Confused
    Confused's picture

    Really? Tax cuts are often offered for the top earners and corporations. When we both know (as you were so eager to point out, but is common knowledge for most here) that large companies can easily minimize their tax liability. And the same applies for most top earners. 

     

    I appreciate the somewhat subdued tone this time. 

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:39 | 1169930 Audacity17
    Audacity17's picture

    It seems you have completely missed my point.  Reuters has mislead thousands of people, including you, by implying in their article that the Ryan plan just lowers the "rates".  Period, end of story.  It also eliminates "loopholes"...so the effective rate PAID could be HIGHER.  So this drivel from Reuters serves only to stoke class warfare, ie. Marx, and doesn't inform anybody.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:47 | 1169970 Confused
    Confused's picture

    Again. I understand your point. My last comment was a response to your question. 

    And my original comment was more of a, rolling of the eyes, at the "lower rates" as part of the fix. Would you disagree that this often gets thrown out there as an option? After all, the article is about "Unbelievable" cuts. Suffice to say, I didn't start reading it expecting real solutions to the charade. 

    Thanks for responding. I see that you were only trying to inform me. And it is appreciated. 

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:09 | 1170075 Audacity17
    Audacity17's picture

    Apparently I mistook the meaning of your bold lettering.  I apologize.  I, for one, would throw out the whole tax code and replace the 16th amendment with a national sales tax at 20%.  Only a congressional supermajority of 3/4 would enable it to be changed.  This would be coupled with a constitutional amendment that limits spending to 18% of last year's GDP.  GDP would be clearly defined obviously to eliminate the game playing.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 18:58 | 1170708 Dionysus
    Dionysus's picture

    Your civil discussion was refreshing, given some of the comment threads on this site.  Thank you both!

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:50 | 1169977 OldTrooper
    OldTrooper's picture

    We should start a pool on how long the 'elimination of loopholes' lasts (if this passes - which is a big if).

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:41 | 1169941 The Profit Prophet
    The Profit Prophet's picture

    .

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:27 | 1169883 The Profit Prophet
    The Profit Prophet's picture

    The only concept crazier than trickle-down economics is unending Keynesian stimulus to support government largess.  There has to be a financially moral foundation for either of these concepts to work.....but all the US has is GREED!!! Wake-up dim bulb, for the next "stupid-ass" comment may be your own!

    T.E.I.N. everyone! 

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:14 | 1169834 SayTabserb
    SayTabserb's picture

    Check the latest Treasury Statement for the month of March. $150 billion in income, $330 billion in outlays. $180 billion in one month, which you can annualize to $2.1 trillion. That is not 10% of GDP, and the GDP figure, in a classic of circular reasoning, is pumped up by govt. borrowing because of the deficit. We're in a state of exsanguination, and they know it but can't say it. There is no way to reduce the deficit without massively reducing the American standard of living, so both parties are just going to play an absurd game of pretending that it makes sense to run a budget where we spend $330 billion in March and take in $150 billion. The two figures don't even belong on the same balance sheet. The income should be from Belize and the outgoes should represent the entire European Union. We've had it. That's the budget plan.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:20 | 1169860 NotAllowed
    NotAllowed's picture

    So say we all

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:17 | 1169836 molotov
    molotov's picture

    This is theatre for fools, the only topic is class warfare of the rich against the poor. 110 trillion dollars siphoned off through the federal reserve to the corporate kleptocracy and you morons are arguing about 4 trillion proposed deficit cuts. ... and the politics of right and left. What a fucking joke!

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:18 | 1169853 economessed
    economessed's picture

    Having the country we want will not come about because we vote for it.  Especially when we are presented with the false choice of "Democrat" or "Republican."

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:18 | 1169854 Commander Cody
    Commander Cody's picture

    Obama: Pretend to support the poor and middle class while giving good head to the rich.  Ryan:  Give good head to the rich, screw everyone else.  Questions?

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:51 | 1169985 weinerdog43
    weinerdog43's picture

    Nope.  Pretty darn succinct.  Thanks.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:18 | 1169856 Dr. No
    Dr. No's picture

     "fail-safe" would trigger across-the-board spending cuts if debt reduction goals are not met.

     

    This is such a joke.  It has been tried.  Gramm-Rudman balanced budget bill.  It even passed but was struck down as unconstitutional.  Does the government not know its own history?  Yeah right.  More likely is the explination they propose this "aggressive" plan and tout fail-safe cutting in order to get political points with the required voting block, while at the same time knowing it just aint going to happen.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Rudman%E2%80%93Hollings_Balanced_Budget_Act

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 17:27 | 1170425 MachoMan
    MachoMan's picture

    Obama clearly knows the constitution

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:19 | 1169857 tempo
    tempo's picture

    Lets be honest there is no reasonable approach or plan because the debt level and deficits are too large. A major cut in spending will trigger a 10% decline in GDP, worldwide recession/depression leading to a war. A large tax increase, will do the same thing. The US is playing chicken will the rest of the world. We will print all the money we want (QE+++) and use the money to buy valuable products and commodities and there is absolutely nothing any one can do about it. US debt levels will not matter. This could go on for many years.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:08 | 1170066 mayhem_korner
    mayhem_korner's picture

    We will print all the money we want (QE+++) and use the money to buy valuable products and commodities and there is absolutely nothing any one can do about it. US debt levels will not matter. This could go on for many years.

    No, it can't.  Continuing to blow up the fiat bubble will relegate only commodities as "valuable."  Critical mass is approaching: 44+ million on food stamps, 25bps = $26B deficit expansion, T-yields simmering even with 70% Fed support and Asian sovereigns turning away, dollar < 75 and sinking... 

    ROCK:  QE+++ gets you $6 gas, 10% BLS-falsified unemployment

    HARD PLACE:  Fed exits T-buying and we have a blue-light special on public defaults, complete housing collapse, and gov't workers rioting... 

    ...all by Q1 2012.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:21 | 1169862 LostWages
    LostWages's picture

    Democracks or RepubliCONs.....doesn't matter....neither will fix the deficit until the house of cards completely crumbles.

    Till default do us part.

    Priority list in DC

    1. Get re-elected.  Grant as many favors as needed to raise campaign funds

    2. Blame the other party for the problems knowing that fixing the problems leaves one with nothing to asses blame on, making #1 more difficult.

    3.  Do what is right for the country as long as #1 and #2 are not compromised.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:24 | 1169870 Rodent Freikorps
    Rodent Freikorps's picture

    I loved Paul Ryan's quote. It went something like "Obama is a pryomaniac in a field of strawmen."

     

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:23 | 1169871 4xCompass
    4xCompass's picture

    My company just got its first renewal of health insurance since Oblamacare went into effect (really small company, not on the typical Nov. timetable)...thanks to Oblamacare, our rates went up 34.4% in ONE YEAR.  Anthem will say privately that the reason is due to the additional mandates, but they won't give it in writing, otherwise they could be banned from the exchanges set to go into effect in a few years.  So what has our President effectively done for my company?  I will NOT hire anyone.  Contractors only baby.  I can't afford to do it, all the payroll taxes and a cool 1k per month for crappy healthcare coverage (HSA, so we pay for nearly everything anyhow).  Makes having additional employees a non-option.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:30 | 1169893 Sofa King
    Sofa King's picture

    50.2% increase last December, switched to a ghetto plan for the same price as my old halfway decent plan and the ghetto plan just filed with the state regulators for a 19% increase.  Running out of options...

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:37 | 1169931 LawsofPhysics
    LawsofPhysics's picture

    Being in healthcare related biotech I got lucky, my contribution for my employees was up 22% YoY.  None of this is sustainable.  People just need to grow up and start accepting that Nature makes no promises regarding your health.   Take responsibility for yourself already, just like productive people can not support entitlements of the lazy, healthy people can not support a health care system for lazy, fat, unhealthy-by-choice fucknuts.  Eventually the productive and healthy people say fuck-it and drop off the radar and do not contribute at all.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:44 | 1169950 OldTrooper
    OldTrooper's picture

    Eventually the productive and healthy people say fuck-it and drop off the radar and do not contribute at all.

    Who is John Galt?

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:25 | 1170159 LawsofPhysics
    LawsofPhysics's picture

    Please, don't date us.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 17:51 | 1170502 OldTrooper
    OldTrooper's picture

    LOL!  Don't worry, a whole new generation will be asking that question soon...I hope.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 19:31 | 1170798 andybev01
    andybev01's picture

    Nope. The current crop doesn't even know how to open a book, let alone have the patience to read one from cover to cover.

    Don't get me started on their comprehension and critical thinking skills...

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:51 | 1169986 Truthiness
    Truthiness's picture

    friend's company rates just went up 20% - plus he is mandated to pay 50% of employee portion, plus he can no longer pay his own portion pre-tax. In order to afford it all, he had to cut disability & life insurance & dental. Insurer said to expect 20% next year as well. 

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:27 | 1169881 Bagbalm
    Bagbalm's picture

    12 year plan? But Comrades 5 year plan is traditional. No politician can plan 12 months ahead.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:30 | 1169897 Village Smithy
    Village Smithy's picture

    How can Washington pretend they are acting on the will of the people when the vast majority of the country doesn't even have a fucking clue how deep in the shit we are. Washington and the MSM have spent the last year and a half spinning the rainbow story and J6P totally bought it. If I start to tell someone at my kids' soccer game what is going on I almost 100% of the time get the glazed over eyes, uh uh, treatment. Before we go any further we need to cut the shit and start telling the country how fucked we are, other wise they just won't understand the level of austerity that the future holds for them. I, unlike a lot of people here on ZH, have the ultimate respect for the people of this country. If there is a people anywhere who can dig themselves out of this mess with dignity and respect for each other its us. We can handle the truth but we need politicians who understand that first and foremost their job is to lead and inspire their people.  Commander Teleprompter doesn't now and never did understand this. He is a career politician who has only ever wanted the power that comes with high office. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be anyone who's any different on the horizon. That in itself is probably the biggest challenge we face.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:37 | 1169917 Seasmoke
    Seasmoke's picture

    you give the people of this country way too much credit ......ignorant and selfish and now liars

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:33 | 1169902 Stuck on Zero
    Stuck on Zero's picture

    Obama calls for $4 trillion in deficit reduction to be phased in over 12 years ...  That will be easy at the rate things are going.  His successor will wait till the last year and then remove one government car from the budget.  That will be the $4 trillion in savings!

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 17:43 | 1170483 r101958
    r101958's picture

    LOL. I was thinking more along the line of 300 million a year until 2016 (his last year IF re-elected) and then 500 billion a year after that.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:33 | 1169911 molotov
    molotov's picture

    change will come in the barrel of a gun.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:35 | 1169918 vxpatel
    vxpatel's picture

    4T over 12 years is 4B in today's dollars...not a big deal.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:36 | 1169925 Bull v. Bear
    Bull v. Bear's picture

    My trillion is bigger than your trillion...

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:39 | 1169929 aerial view
    aerial view's picture

    Obama, Dems, Repubs: None of them are serious; otherwise, we would have never gotten to this point in the first place. There will always be excuses for why their projections were off by a factor of 100. It's simply more "good cop, bad cop" kicking the can down the road forever.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:52 | 1170001 Gold 36000
    Gold 36000's picture

    It will have to be a greek style emergency before anyone will make the necessary changes. Politicians prefer an outside force make them introduce austerity. They can blame the imf or greedy chinese bankers or something.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:38 | 1169935 High Plains Drifter
    High Plains Drifter's picture

    its all too little too late. or so it seems. they are all scumbags. a total waste of time worrying about any of these people. its a big show and it means nothing and never has.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 17:14 | 1170368 VisualCSharp
    VisualCSharp's picture

    I think it's more accurate to say we wish it means nothing. Unfortunately, their decisions determine the fate of this country.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:46 | 1169938 OldTrooper
    OldTrooper's picture

    How many "plans" have there been to deal with the budget deficit?  This has been going on for 30 years, at least.  The same tired tricks are being used.  The result will be the same.  Expecting anything else would be insanity.

    Brace yourself folks.  This is going to get rough.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:43 | 1169946 Dr. Impossible
    Dr. Impossible's picture

     i tried telling everybody to write in "Ron Paul for King", we'd get our republic back in 30 days or less.....no one believes me.....

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:50 | 1169972 Gold 36000
    Gold 36000's picture

    Turning medicaid into an unrestricted block grant and medicare into a defined contribution voucher is the only way to effectively control costs.

    If you give the health care industry a blank check i am sorry to say that we will take maximum advantage of it.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 17:35 | 1170445 MachoMan
    MachoMan's picture

    Or we could bankrupt all medical providers who have ridiculous infrastructure costs...  liquidate their equipment...  and begin a new provider who can offer cheaper healthcare...  and at the same time severely limit public insurance...

    When people actually have to pay for medical procedures out of pocket, they leave the damn country or refuse service...  presently, the system incentivizes abusers on both ends...  we need an adversarial situation to arise so that there are actually checks and balances... 

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:53 | 1170003 Bansters-in-my-...
    Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

    Delusional....

    The whole lot of them.

    Take your country back from the banksters.!!!

    How many HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS !!!! peryear in INTERESt.... dOES YOUR COUNTRY AND IT'S CITIZENS ... pay for every year.

    And what the Bankster don't get in interest,the Military gets,to protect the Banksters....

    Sounds like a sick movie....but it's going on in the U.S of A. right here ,right now.....

    Unbelievable...!!!!!!!

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 15:58 | 1170027 Bansters-in-my-...
    Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

    Good to see Tyler is getting some Joo confetti from BMO Banksters....

    Take plenty......

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:01 | 1170031 gwar5
    gwar5's picture

    We can't believe anything Thug-in-Chief Obama says. He knows nothing, and his top democratic economic maestros have all left laready in disgrace after failing miserably -- Romer, Orzag, and Summers. But Obama is really still playing the same tune on his fiddle.

    Without economic standing, all Obama has continued is wealth redistribution (read debt redistribution) through massive deficit spending our way to more gobal food riots and US foreign oil dependency when the whole world is broke and we sit on have massive reserves. Soros wants it and TPTB behind the Bernanke want it. Obama is on the socialist Spain path to invisible green energy and 24% unemployment and default, by choice, even though we've all seen how that movie ends.  

    At least Paul Ryan has a more rational plan that can be believed if it can get passed, though it might still be too late.

    When Carter had a top tax rate of 70% the "rich" only paid 19% of total revenues. Now they pay 40% of revenues with a the lower tax rate. 47% pay no taxes.

    Socialist countries that tax wealth and investments, get neither -- everybody leaves to invest in greener pastures and free markets. When Medvedev came here last year he mocked Obama with gold coins and a trip to Silicon Valley to woo tech companies with a brand new Russian Silicon Valley they've built and low corporate taxes.

    The whole world is against the Obamacrat spending oblivion. China, Brazil, IMF, G-7, G-20 and Europe have all embraced austerity and cutbacks in the social welfare economies and criticized the US spending madness.

    The Obamacrats are the last people on the planet spending recklessly. Obama is more than happy to be the next Hugo Chavez.  

     

     

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:12 | 1170085 AldousHuxley
    AldousHuxley's picture

    Russians have won the cold war. Now they are buying $100M homes in US: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ontheblock/detail?entry_id=86119

     

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:05 | 1170057 AldousHuxley
    AldousHuxley's picture

    Deficit cutting = reallocation of national spending into military incursions to secure strategic natural resources in the middle east.

     

    Sorry, but USA is bankrupted, and only way they can generate wealth is via stealing other people's oil.

     

    But then why Libya? Why not invade the mother load in Saudi Arabia?

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:48 | 1170270 LawsofPhysics
    LawsofPhysics's picture

    Simple.  Our intelligence is better and the oil is in Libya and Iran.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:06 | 1170061 Truthiness
    Truthiness's picture

    We got through the American Revolution, The Civil War, WWII, The Cold War, Vietnam...this too shall pass...no matter how ugly it gets. 

    In the meantime, gold & a well-diversified portfolio bitchez!

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:11 | 1170079 nah
    nah's picture

    the globalists dont care how we go down man

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:14 | 1170097 Ben Fleeced
    Ben Fleeced's picture

    An appropriate budget for next fiscal year would be a simple bill:

    1)      Approved Federal positions would be returned to the level on January 1, 2006.

    2)      The budget total would be set to the total Federal revenue received in the fiscal year ending October 1, 2011. 

    3)      The President would be authorized to set the priorities as to how this money would be allocated among the agencies and departments with the restriction that the military budget could not decline below their actual expenditures for Fiscal 2010.

    4)      The President would be required to present to Congress by January 1, 2012, the agency-by-agency and department-by-department spending allocations or the agencies not so allocated would have their budgets set to $0.00 for the fiscal year.

    5)      All moneys would be assumed to be appropriated for only one fiscal year with no money being allowed to be rolled over to another year in not spent.

    6)      The Judiciary’s budget would be set to the same amount as appropriated for fiscal 2008.

     

    Thoughts?

    Disclosure: Taken from someone much wiser than I.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:37 | 1170202 DUNTHAT
    DUNTHAT's picture

    Agree with one major exception.

    The defense dept. --in 2010 dollars--in the year 2001 was 300 Billion!! Today its 700 Billion. Ok, remove 140 for the wars it gets you to 540B. Give 40B for the extra monitoring for al qaeda.  That leaves up to 200 Billion per year in excess spending to keep us safe.  Doesn't include the 'other' things like black budget and other depts to keep us safe(another 200B annually).

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:25 | 1170138 sschu
    sschu's picture

    According the the recent Steven Moore column in the WSJ, there are now 22.5 MILLION people who work for the government at all levels.  Half the spend at a state and local level is for people and pensioners, salary plus benefits.  Work, not handouts, but people who get a paycheck.

    Truly, we need at most 1/3 as many workers in government, maybe less.  It is unlikely anyone has the cajones to layoff 14 million people.

    So a crash will come when it is clear we cannot make this work.  What happens after is key.  IMHO, those that think we will morf into a society with less government will be unhappy.  The government will control all the money and access to basic needs like food and electricity.  If you want to eat, you will do the job assigned to you by the government, and you will join SEIU and vote for those in power.

    There were articles on this back in 2008 where pundits were predicting the middle class was going to be given a choice.  It will not be in these exact terms, but it will come down to join the union, work for the government or you and your family will face ruin and starvation.  

    Anarchists, free marketers, whatever you want to call yourself will not be especially pleased with where they end up.

    My personal prospects given age and demographic are not good.  I will end up as a bitter clinger, guns and my Bible will see me thru.

    sschu

     

     

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 19:00 | 1170723 AldousHuxley
    AldousHuxley's picture

    This is something the top 1% does not understand today because their greed.

    Middle class will lose all motivation to be productive and will only work to protect their status above the lower class (children, old, disabled, criminal)

    Once unions take power, all parties lose except union leaders. But workers give unions power when they are abused enough by owners of capital.

     

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 23:12 | 1171289 sschu
    sschu's picture

    is something the top 1% does not understand today

    Yes, it seems many think they can somehow insulate themselves from the catastrophe that looms.  I just have trouble seeing how this will be the case unless you are Bill Gates like rich and have an island in the pacific set with 5 years of necessities for you, family and servants.

    I do not think this crash will be like the great depression at all, we are looking at social chaos and lawlessness not unlike the French Revolution.

    People are going to want some blood, and the "rich" are the targets.

    Hope I am wrong. 

    sschu

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:23 | 1170147 svc101
    svc101's picture

    To paraphrase Bama, that choice is a false dichotomy.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:58 | 1170183 michigan independant
    michigan independant's picture

    Consumer tax defaults around here also now. State cannot print fiat, and treasury will bail out the Common good for the States? Remember the poll here on State Bond bailouts? Really the beatings will continue until moral improves as the Sheriff siezes the so called assets as we are locally being taxed to death. Remember the time when land sales went unbid? This game has a long way to play given the overall moral compass from the top to the bottum. We are not even close to reality and they are so removed from it that it will not matter for a long time. Kick the can as far as you can since the reality is just that. Our local has adopted per capita on the surface but incredible tales ring true on nonusage assesments of $100.00 per month on housing not even be lived in since no one will live in it! The books are are so cooked top to bottum not even reality can escape any more from even a City level. A $1500.00 fee to change a tiltle to say condo rental usage. Yea needless to say that project is still residential tilted. These local lunatics dignitaries are just a crooked as the asshats in the article on budjet issue they deem now so crucial since any government only has is direct interest to  survival in any time. As any normal American the office of the President has a boot attached to it to kick the ass of these deviants. No, the throne is for bid and no reason not to call is what it really is. We deserve this plain and simple so shut up once and for all as over 8 million workers suffer permanent nonrepairable desolation. Governments needs to be punished and treated as lepers they really are today as pointless, groundless, and slaves they really are until the Consumer grows up. Not going to happen is it? No frikin way. The way was clear for these cheerfull and usefull idiots before we we born. If your really bored read Alfred Marshall who spewed forth Keynes folly. Still I hear the "why is there so many people upset" and please stop it since I played Ford and a few stocks to supplimant my social security. Click your broker until the lights go out good luck. Meanwhile, a veteran verbally asked a drug dealer to stop selling drugs in the neighborhood. He told me the dealer was going to burn his house down with him in it. He smiled, he has more than 2 tours under his belt so did I smile as the idiot went back to his section 8 house. You have no idea how things are heating up. Enjoy your day in the under the Sun and yes you are going to pay for it if you like it or not. Good luck with these liberal idiots on a leash.

     

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:31 | 1170186 AldoHux_IV
    AldoHux_IV's picture

    If Obama is so hell bent on making sure everyone makes sacrifices let's start with him: let him forgo his salary, and all other benefits until we get our fiscal house in order-- let the holders of government debt suffer by destroying what ails us-- let the top 2% and multi-nationals pay more in taxes-- and start taxing the multi-national corps.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 16:53 | 1170297 Astute Investor
    Astute Investor's picture

    Both plans, like every "plan" offered previously by politicians or "experts", are total crapola.  Only one real solution that would eliminate deficits and payoff the national debt:

    APT Tax

    The good news -- it's a viable solution.  The bad news -- it will never happen.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 17:05 | 1170335 thepsilocircus
    thepsilocircus's picture

    I have been reading this website for a long time and never actually felt I had a comment strong enough to post. Sad, I know. I was much more focused on doing my best to critically read and think about all of the information on here- much of it starkly new to me.

    That aside, I do have something to say.

     

    Why the fuck are so many people commenting on this article with their "great ideas" for austerity? The general feeling I have is that this is an utter waste of time, and even worse, generally involves paying back the banksters and their ilk... Shouldn't we be focused on ideas that involve taking back our currency/ending the Fed?

     

    Junk away.

     

    Happy Friday Eve =) And thank you ZH and those who comment- I have learned so much more than I ever thought possible in the past year.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 17:37 | 1170460 sschu
    sschu's picture

    Junk away.

    I do not think you should be junked as it is a fair question.  BTW, that does not mean you will not get junked.  :-)

    There are some articles and plenty of posts here about the unwillingness of Americans to face the music, the system is broken and needs a major overhaul.  Normalcy bias is a term often bantered about.  We see it everyday, smart, accomplished, knowledgeable people just do not want to face the same issues confronted by theirgrand parents during the great depression.  Events will drive us, not the other way right now.

    I guess it is human nature.

    sschu

     

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 17:10 | 1170360 Heroic Couplet
    Heroic Couplet's picture

    Ryan's plan includes lowering taxes from 35% to 25%. That's BS. The Republican tax cuts have been in effect for a decade, unaltered. Where are the US jobs?

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 17:57 | 1170526 r101958
    r101958's picture

    Ben's idea is good. If not that then 20% across the board cuts for two years in a row. None of this 10 and 12 year bullschmidt! Until somebody presents something that is 4 years or less then I won't take them seriously. If Japan had a 10 or 12 year budget plan that was instituted 1 or 2 years ago it would be shot to heck right now. How can we possibly presume to plan like that. The answer is; we don't and they don't. It is wishful thinking and a clandestine form of kicking the can down the road.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 17:59 | 1170535 r101958
    r101958's picture

    Agreed Heroic. Leave taxes as they are. The 20% across the board (about 720 billion) is really the only thing that eliminates partisan, save my own constituent, arguing and stalemate. Everybody takes their medicine. Nobody can claim they are getting 'unfairly' picked on.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 19:05 | 1170734 AldousHuxley
    AldousHuxley's picture

    Who in the middle class does not want the following:

    • Raise taxes for 0.1% income earners
    • Cut military spending by 50%
    • Cut services for the welfare exploiters

    Instead we have:

    • Democrats increasing taxes to pay off welfare class
    • Republicans cut taxes for top 0.1% and increase military spending
    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 19:22 | 1170769 SaulA
    SaulA's picture

    You complain and......

     

    We_Still_Win!

     

    The collective rules, it always will.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 19:27 | 1170782 Rodent Freikorps
    Rodent Freikorps's picture

    The Soviet Union died before the US did.

    That is a win...kind of.

    They have a Tsar again even if they won't admit it.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 19:50 | 1170846 r101958
    r101958's picture

    20% across the board. Two years in a row.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 20:00 | 1170863 jmc8888
    jmc8888's picture

    Let's see, the biggest cut not mentioned is the fraud.  Cut the fraud THROUGH GLASS-STEAGALL...that means our debt isn't 14 trillion guys.  Think about it.

    You don't need to cut needed services ala idiot republicans/idiot tea party

    You don't need to print ala idiot democrats (and republicans to a lesser extent) [who put bernanke in and who initiated the bailouts]

    You need Glass-Steagall, which cuts the amount our debt IS.  That's the number that should be cut, the amount the debt IS.

    Because it's FRAUD!

    Glass-Steagall would DO IT.

    THEN, with many trillions gone from the deficit, what is our debt payments? Beuller? Dollar strengthens, Wall Street activities are separated, and so how much are commodities, and everything we buy? MUCH LOWER.  Since things are lower, all current legitimate debt is inflated, so all real debt has a haircut applied to it because it is an imbalance, and this isn't about letting someone profit, it's about FIXING the damn system.  Thus what is our debt then after this? EVEN FUCKING LOWER.

    Now what we do is we, like Hamilton, have the federal gov't take on the state debts, after of course they've been shrunk via glass-steagall and have haircuts. Then we embark on spending plans in more valuable dollars to do what? Take care of our real problems

    Mag-lev

    Fusion and other energy plans (note: not wind/solar, nor natural gas/oil)

    NAWAPA

    Space program

    No our debt still isn't anywhere near where it is now, nor is it even at 2005 levels AFTER giving all of this.  (plus since it's not federal reserve notes, it's not owed to banksters, the new part, while the old part is retired over time...i.e. banksters are not funding these programs)

    Now, since we want to be prudent we do things smarter.  Yes medicare can bargain over drugs, and these sorts of things.

    But what else can we cut? Well obviously no more bailouts is a big cut.  Big wars? done. Big defense. Done.

    Anyone that thinks we still have a 'deficit' (whatever that means) problem is a fucking fool after we've done these things.

    Now, what to do about taxes? Hmm.  Well we'd have to actually see the numbers first.  THEN decide.  But to speculate before hand, it would be lower taxes on the working class, higher taxes on the top .1-1 percent, and corporations MUCH higher.If they don't like it, they won't do business here, and nope, free trade is toast....no more imperialism...which is what free trade is.  No more NAFTA, CAFTA, or any other WTO bullshit.

    Now, what was the above idiots take on medicare, medicaid, or their pure sophistry about 200x level this, no funding until that, so on and so forth.  Quit being fucking idiots.  CANCEL THE FRAUD.  Set things right.  Burn the bondholders.  End the fed. Hamiltonian credit system is far superior than federal reserve fraudulent debt based imperial monetary system.

    If you understand what I mean, and you should, otherwise you'll go down the idiot path, not doing anything but rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic, as the banksters still take all the lifeboats. 

    It's not about taxes

    It's not about deficits

    It's about the structure of the fucking system, and canceling, through law, namely Glass-STeagall the fraudulent fuckups of the current system.

    It is all policy and principle, not austerity and talking points.

    Glass-Steagall is the key, full 1933 version.  Not the weakened 1980+ bullshit that brought us S&L crisis and '87, nor all the booms and busts since then, especially the current one which happened as a direct result of Glass-Steagall's repeal in 1999. 

    If your republican, democrat, or tea party dumbshits don't understand the above and want to go a stupid direction, just know there is someone on the top that is profiting off the continuance of the status quo, usually the same big corporations and big banksters that are profiting now and that you hate, but somehow still want to butter their asshole by doing their bidding.  Wake up. We got some real problems, and fraudulent debt is the thing to cut FIRST.

    Unless your plan cuts fraudulent debt first, you don't have a fucking plan.

     

     

     

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 23:30 | 1171330 tired1
    tired1's picture

    Can you explain to one who is ignorant how Glass-Steagall will help?

    Fri, 04/15/2011 - 02:11 | 1171554 Dan Alter
    Dan Alter's picture

    Bingo! We need a one sentence piece of legislation: "We encourage anyone or any organization to lend money on any legal terms you like, preferably a lot of money; BUT when John or Mary does not make their payment to terms; our government will not help you get your loan money back.". You had the money last, next time be more careful.

    We need the old bankruptcy law back with no exceptions for rich people. We must eliminate the bad loans from the system and rich people own almost all the bad loans.

    Once we put those who made bad loans into bankruptcy, the system can grow again. This above all means bankrupting the rich corrupt people who have bought our politicians.

    One person, one vote in a real democracy. Only lazy thinking suckers would let these thieves continue to rape us by voting for either of these two well bought and paid for political parties.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 20:39 | 1170938 AldoHux_IV
    AldoHux_IV's picture

    Listening to a Charlie Rose interview of this douchebag Ryan (maybe I'm a selfmasochistic) but it's clearly a case of dumb and dumber.  These paid actors don't know what they're talking about.  It's pretty sad that this dog and pony show is really about these assholes.  Ryan says he was part of the TARP legislation which leads me to believe that this asshole is cut from the same bullshit cloth as Obama and that while on the surface these assholes jawjack rhetoric the real bamboozle is going on behind closed doors.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 22:01 | 1171081 AldousHuxley
    AldousHuxley's picture

    Only cut I would like to see is the heads of banksters and politicians.

    Thu, 04/14/2011 - 23:31 | 1171319 tired1
    tired1's picture

    deleted

    Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!