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Obama's Budget Has One Small, Missing Piece.... For $6.3 Trillion Dollars

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Today, to much fanfare, the administration released its ridiculous $3+ trillion budget (we say + because at that size the one thing certain is that the budget will certainly never hit the target and while we wish it would be lower, we are certain it will end up materially higher), which consists of a "short" 192-page summary section and a 1420 page appendix. We are confident that not one politician will read the whole thing from cover to cover. We won't either. Not because we don't care about what's in it, but because we are much more concerned with what is not included, namely $2.8 Trillion and $1.9 Trillion of MBS guaranteed portfolios at Fannie and Freddie, and an additional $782 billion and $809 billion in company debt outstanding for the two GSEs, respectively. This amounts to a total of $6.3 trillion in liabilities which should be counted toward the budget. And yet, oddly, the error-checker somehow made this rather justifiable omission: after all if we were to look at a number which written out looks as follows $6,264,000,000,000.00, we would also probably just avoid it - it is somewhat difficult to hide a number that big even in the 1,420 pages of the budget's appendix. That's ok, we are here to remind them about the omission, and also to remind Mr. Orszag, who himself, in that long ago 2008, espoused that these companies should be put on the Federal Budget. Isn't it strange what one and a half years worth of realizations just how broken beyond repair the system is, will do to one's convictions?

Let's remind our readers of what then-CBO director Peter Orszag said on September 8, 2008, at the press conference announcing the conservatorship of the bankrupt mortgage titans. Below we transcribe the relevant Q&A:

QUESTION:  (OFF-MIKE) completely incorporated into the federal budget?

ORSZAG:  What I— what I said was it is our view that at this point
they should be incorporated into the federal budget, that we intend to
do that in our January baseline and that with regard to the budget of
the United States,
which is put together by the administration’s Office
of Management and Budget, that—the treatment therein will obviously be
up to OMB, but it is our hope that working with the budget committees
and OMB we can have a consistent treatment between our baseline and
their budget.

QUESTION:  This may be a little repetitive, but can you give—and
if—if you do what you just said you would do, incorporating the
mortgage companies into the federal budget directly, can you estimate
at all the impact on federal receipts and federal outlays?

ORSZAG:  I don’t—I could but I don’t want to. And the reason is
that—is that again that can depend very sensitively—there is a lot of
mortgage-backed security activity, and it can depend a lot on how this
tension between whether if you buy a hundred-dollar’s worth of
mortgage-backed securities that is scored as a hundred dollars in
spending or whether that’s evaluated at its subsidy value, the numbers
can be dramatically different
. So I’m—until we reach judgment on, in
particular, that issue but a few others, it’s premature for me to give
you the raw (ph) numbers.

Christian (ph) and then (inaudible).

QUESTION:  Sure, but just in a conceptual sense, though, you are
ruling that—that Fannie and Freddie are now part of the public sector.
They’re now part of the government. They are in effect nationalized.

ORSZAG:  We are saying that the degree of control exercised by the
federal government over these entities is so strong that the best
treatment is to incorporate them into the federal budget.

Alas now-White House budget director is singing a radically different tune. According to a statement from the administration: "The administration continues to monitor the situation of the GSEs
closely and will continue to provide updates on considerations for
longer-term reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as appropriate." We hope this update will come at least a few days before America files for bankruptcy. Oh, and what is this difference in MBS scoring between "spending" and "subsidy value." Could we maybe please got some color on which of these two concepts applied to the nearly $100 billion in MBS sales initiatied by Bill Gross, with the US taxpayer as an unwitting buyer.

As there may have been some confusion as to the magnitude of the numbers we are discussing here, we are providing a break down of total GSE debt introduced just a few days ago by Neil Barofsky.

As readers can see, we are not talking about just any paltry amount: the most recent US total debt balance was $12.222 trillion. It would seem a little presumptuous that an amount representing more than half of the total US sovereign debt is conveniently swept under the rug.

And with the omission from the Federal Budget, America's population once again has absolutely no visibility into the real fiscal costs associated with the government's support for the Debtor Nation Sponsored Entities (aka DeNSEs). Not only that, but at some point we really should have a discussion over just what the delicate transition from the existing "conserved" [sic] status to a full nationalization and permanent US debt onboarding. Because otherwise the ignorant morts may think that the Federal Reserve was responsible for purchasing just $300 billion worth of US debt, when in reality, courtesy of what should have been a Budget liability, the Bernanke policy will have been responsible for purchasing essentially $1.7 trillion worth of US securities. And the whole MBS-UST rotation by China, PIMCO and everyone else who was clever enough to hold the worst possible security around, would just have been a little more formalized than assorted discussions in the fringe media.

Luckily for the administration, today's budget provided absolutely no color, and further confirmed that Orzsag is nothing but a pure-blood hypocrite who says whether is suitable for the occasion. Seeing how the Volcker plan is about to be retracted, we reserve judgment for the President until such time as he formally announces his prop trading ban was simply the result of an HFT algorithm gone amok in his telepromter. But we digress. As for the whole "GSE-reform" thing, the administration will do it soon. Not today... But soon. After all: what is 40% of GDP? Bernanke can print that in like 2 days.

What we do know, is that recently the Treasury formally gave itself unlimited bailout capacity as pertains to the GSEs, once again making the case that in the grand scheme of things Treasury and GSEs liabilities are essentially the same concept. Of course, the public's, media's, and assorted CDS traders' reactions, were they to suddenly uncover that the US debt-to-GDP is actually more like 130% than 90%, would be quite amusing. We also know that by this action the administration has avoided the recognition of about $100 billion in cash outlays compared to the prior CBO estimate. Oh yes, we almost forgot how self-congratulatory the Treasury was when it announced that its January-March and March-June quarter borrowing needs would be lower than expected.

What we definitely know is that we now live in a system where delusion is the norm: we have an administration that willfully and consistently deludes its population from representing just how bad our economic debacle really is, and we have a population, that willfully and consistently is happy to accept lies and delusions from every media and administrative outlet, and in turn deludes the administration that it will pays it taxes, or not walk away from yet another underwater mortgage. Rinse. Repeat.

What we are positive, is that this arrangement of mutual delusion will persist will spectacular success. Until it doesn't.

 


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Mon, 02/01/2010 - 22:42 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

well, interesting comments by Orszag, no doubt.  

At least on the bright side, David Stevens has assured us that FHA is okey dokey smokey and they will never need any bailout.  I know some have called for an FHA implosion but no need to worry because a U.S. government official has said that the FHA will not implode.

I'm feeling a little more crameresque about the whole housing mess now....

the question i keep asking myself is, at the age of 54, will I see the Minsky moment actually occur or will I be long gone.....

Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:48 | Link to Comment Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

Just like every toddler now knows words like micro, nano, giga, terra etc., we will soon have to get used to words like quadrillion, quintillion and say things like: I remember when gold was just $1200 an oz. I wish I had bought some more of it.

So, yes my friend, we will indeed be speaking these words and chances are that somewhere between the words trillion and quadrillion, the Minski moment and "black swan" will also become an everyday word.

If you were to google these words every Sunday morning and chart how many hits you get on a weekly basis, you will soon see an exponential trend.

That may be a good way to see the future.

Just now:

Minski moment 593,000 hits

Black swan 12,200,000 hits

Trillion 12,300,000 hits

Quadrillion only 401,000 hits

Carry-on

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 01:30 | Link to Comment Marley
Marley's picture

"We're so screwed its sad." - 12 million google hits.  

"We're so screwed it's sad." - 10 million google hits

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 01:48 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

funny

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 02:31 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

See the people willing to make mistakes in spelling are 20 percent more screwed than the people who aren't.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 10:37 | Link to Comment Invisible Hand
Invisible Hand's picture

Or, it could be that even people who can't spell can read the writing on the wall.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 07:34 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 11:59 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Potentially part of their profession. Data miners, for example, could show you a lot of really, really cool stuff it they weren't "State Secrets".

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 09:17 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 11:32 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 09:48 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 02/01/2010 - 22:51 | Link to Comment jm
jm's picture

What I'd really like to know is how to derive reliable loss severities for that guaranteed GSE paper. 

I mean, everything is so assumption sensitive, and GSE paper has so many moving parts, and which of them can be / are hedged?  And how good is that hedge book?

Don't get me wrong.  I love your site.  It just makes my head swim trying to figure out the "collateral damage".  Pun intended. 

 

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 00:53 | Link to Comment Dburn
Dburn's picture

The govt accounting system is some strange hybrid of cash and accrual accounting. One example that always struck me was when the social security surplus was spent each year they would take the amount spent and deduct that from the deficit. I suppose thinking that since it was inter governmental and it was surplus, it count as a deduction even though it was spent.

Putting the guarantees in the budget doesn't work until the mortgages default . Even then they won't put it in the budget because no one can project with and certainty the cash out put required to cover the defaults. This is not unusual at all.  If there was a dead certainty that in the next 12 months they had to come up with 6.5 trillion, it would have to go in the budget. Since I don't think that is a dead certainty, it isn't going to show up in the budget.

Wed, 02/03/2010 - 01:56 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 02/03/2010 - 11:47 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 02/01/2010 - 22:52 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

Bama's sendup is only $3.83T.  Once you get some supplementals for war and some pork, it may highside $4T.

This represents $600B over Busch's worst

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 10:35 | Link to Comment Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

Bush.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 12:56 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

No shit?

I typed Busch because I believe that sums him up appropriately, low rent beer, NASCAR, all of the connotations

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

Ah, beer.

Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:03 | Link to Comment heatbarrier
heatbarrier's picture

FHLBs leverage about 50:1. 

http://www.fhlb-of.com/specialinterest/financialframe2.html

Another bailout down the road. See footnote b.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/mado...

PS. Links drive nuts.

Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:11 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 05:41 | Link to Comment MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

ZH is telling it like it is. Denninger is still drinking the cool aid and getting too high on his reflection in the mirror. His ego is what it is, fine/whatever, and sometime he makes good points. The problem with Denninger is his continual belief in the religion of the bankster/financial system and in the actual following of the rule of law. Obviously the rule of law left the building years ago. So his religious belief in the system are leading him down the wrong path.

For some reason he still seems to believe the system will be fine provided laws are followed. Perhaps he has not been paying as close attention to the lack of law enforcement, no real moves to follow the will of the people, etc. As such, his advice/comments is based on incorrect parameters.

In other words, he is basing some of his writings on dreams and star dust and not the current market reality. Still, i wish Denninger well and file him under "It seems natual for every little girl to dream of owning a pony."

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 07:15 | Link to Comment Fielding Mellish
Fielding Mellish's picture

Everything Denninger says depends on the outcome of the 2010 election.  Now, Senators are so shielded from public opinion and so exposed to money lobbyists, it may make absolutely no difference what happens in 2010.  On the other hand, they love their jobs.

I have a much higher opinion of Denninger than you do, but he may be wrong.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 09:18 | Link to Comment MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

Election outcomes may make little difference... like Bush versus BHO. As the song goes, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss". While Americans could wish for real change, other than new 'seat warmers' and perhaps new rhetoric, the REAL outcome will be no different.

Hate to burst dreams and wishes, yet the USA is done and best advice is to make decisions based on reality and not on laws or hoping the new seat warmers 'do the right thing' because 90% of the phone calls they get tell them what to do (read: no TARP, etc).

 

Tue, 06/22/2010 - 00:47 | Link to Comment Roger O. Thornhill
Roger O. Thornhill's picture

Denninger would be correct in a world, maybe 50 years ago.

Unfortunately we don't have standards like that anymore. My belief is that we have left objective truth (the world of grown up rules) far behind and now live in a world of relative truth (where the kid's wishes make things come true). This childish world is one where you can justify any fraud as long as your intentions are good. 

Maybe the inevitable crack-up will cause us all to grow up. That is change I can believe in.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 11:56 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:27 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

There comes a point in the insanity when the truth can no longer be hidden. Once this point is reached but the general consensus is that the truth must still not be acknowledged, it is then hidden in plain sight but simply not discussed.

Call it the "crazy aunt May locked in the attic" phenomenon, where every family member knows that aunt May is completely off her rocker and is actually stark raving mad. Because no one (for whatever reason, be it money or shame etc) wants to do anything about aunt May, she is locked up in the attic, out of sight and mind except for each family member, where she is hidden in plain sight and out in the open.

While each family members takes turns bringing food and drink to crazy auntie, laundering her clothes, cleaning her space, changing her sheets, even having conversations with her, no one talks to each other about what they are collectively doing or even why, for to do so would force the family to do something about her.

This behavior, albeit on a less extreme level, is actually quit common in a dysfunctional society and is a measure of the health of that society. If this type of split or separated mind continues for very long, it can actually drive others in the family (and society) into severe mental distress.

This also happens in the general society (consider the children's story about " the King has no cloths" or how we as a society can continue to destroy our environment while doing little to nothing to stop doing so) this dysfunction can lead to violent and unsocial behavior in it's individual members as the stress of the open lie takes its toll. I believe this is one of the reasons behind the rise in school shootings, teenage suicide, a general population becoming increasingly obese at an alarming rate and so on. The signs of general mentally instability is everywhere if you wish to look closely.

But of course, if we aren't going to talk about crazy aunt May locked up in the attic, we certainly aren't going to talk about the metal stress and emotional disorder that the open "secret" is causing among us, now are we?

Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:52 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 10:35 | Link to Comment Winisk
Winisk's picture

I find it curious that we have moved so far in terms of medicine, technology, and knowledge, yet it seems our collective health and education are trending the other way.  Illiteracy, rudeness, obesity, asthma, depression and a host of other mental and physical disorders are trending upwards. Children are being raised in a toxic environment.  Yes it's polluted, but the conditions to nurture young healthy minds is also lacking as a result of divorces, absent working parents, and stress in the home.  To top it off the enslaving debt being foisted on the children is unconscionable.  Parents should be ashamed. They let their narcissistic attitudes usurp their moral obligation to care for their children.  It's sad to witness the mass delusion.  TBTB can manufacture the numbers to suit their purposes but there is a human cost.  One need only look around to see it.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 10:38 | Link to Comment Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

Reminds me of the fall of the Roman Empire.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 10:47 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

It's so much easier to rule a population when "Illiteracy, rudeness, obesity, asthma, depression and a host of other mental and physical disorders are trending upwards."

This is the fatal flaw for the grunts, meaning you and I. As long we refuse to recognize that the people we regularly turn the house and car keys over to are out to screw us, harm us, sicken us, this mess will only get worse.

In order to deny responsibility for running the show, to ignore our own individual responsibility for fixing this mess, we must delude ourselves into believing that the people we do put in charge will be acting in good faith and in our best interest. If this means participating in a mass deception, so be it. Ironically, as this mess gets worse, less and less people will wake up because the problems will become that much more horrifying.

This is a well know form of positive feedback loop know as denial. In fact, the sleeping with desperately fight you and anyone else who tries to shake them awake. The sleeping deep-in-denial population is the best friend of a Fascist and oppressive government. The powers-that-be understand human psychology extremely well. The average Joe is woefully ignorant of human psychology.

We lose. 

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 19:14 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 12:02 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:27 | Link to Comment ShankyS
ShankyS's picture

Possibly your best post yet. Thanks TD. We're so screwed its sad.

It would seem a little presumptuous that an amount representing more
than half of the total US sovereign debt is conveniently swept under
the rug.

Priceless.

Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:29 | Link to Comment dumpster
dumpster's picture

trillion here , trillion there .. pretty soon they will be spending real money lol

Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:36 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:37 | Link to Comment OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

"A nation is not going mad when it does extravagant things, so long as it does them in an extravagant spirit. But whenever we see things done wildly, but taken tamely, then the state is growing insane..."

-Gilbert Keith Chesterton 1910

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 23:13 | Link to Comment QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

Now that is a great and appropriate quote

Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:38 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:42 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:45 | Link to Comment Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

And you worry about Greece induced Euro crisis? Let's start printing!!!

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 00:02 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Aussie aussie aussie!!!!

Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:46 | Link to Comment OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Once everyone realizes that they have been lied to, at which point the governments leadership credibility evaporates - leaving the populace with no jobs, no money, no services, no backstop, no justice, no faith, no hope, and no effective government for 300 million people who are armed to the teeth...

LOOK OUT!

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 00:07 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:56 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Mon, 02/01/2010 - 23:59 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I am not buying an ipadddddddddddddd.  O.  Buy Silver.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 00:57 | Link to Comment Dburn
Dburn's picture

+100

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 01:19 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 00:36 | Link to Comment Daedal
Daedal's picture

This reminds me of a co-worker who, when questioned about why his number was off by $10million, responded with: "Immaterial."

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 00:45 | Link to Comment Great Depressio...
Great Depression Trader's picture

In 2005 I started to believe that Jesus Christ would return sometime around 2012. Ive actually got some bible versus and other recent phenomena to support my claim. Ive been watching the insanity parade continue ever since then. Its 2010 and things are really starting to unravel. The world is sitting on a massive credit bubble, the biggest in world history. Govs have tried to patch up the holes with a few trillion here and there to no effect. Never before has the world been so interconnected as it is now, with Asia, the US, and Europe being so economically linked. When this bubble finally bursts and when everyone's "claims" evaporate like dust, the anger will begin to manifest itself. China will be angry about its US gov debt claims, US pensioners and Social Security benies will lose their "claims", the banks are already losing their "claims" as people default and mortgages lose 70% of their value. Savers will lose their "claims" on the FRN's they hold as all currencies will be destroyed. College grads will lose their "claims" to a prosperous future as they are saddled with debt and cant find decent jobs. When this thing pops and it will the anger will reach a tipping point. Based on the bible, I believe that Christ's return will be pre-emptive; prempting us from destroying the world and ourselves.

 

Matthew 24:22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. Jesus talking about the great tribulation.

The verse that strongly supports my belief that USA is babylon the great is Revelation 18:

Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
   "Come out of her, my people,
      so that you will not share in her sins,
      so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
 5for her sins are piled up to heaven,
      and God has remembered her crimes.
 6Give back to her as she has given;
      pay her back double for what she has done.
      Mix her a double portion from her own cup.
 7Give her as much torture and grief
      as the glory and luxury she gave herself.
   In her heart she boasts,
      'I sit as queen; I am not a widow,
      and I will never mourn.'
 8Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her:
      death, mourning and famine.
   She will be consumed by fire,
      for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.

 9"When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her. 10Terrified at her torment, they will stand far off and cry:
   " 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
      O Babylon, city of power!
   In one hour your doom has come!'

 11"The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more— 12cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; 13cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men.

This babylon that collapses will render the merchants of the world broke. Interestingly, the US sits as the world consumer. For fear of her going broke the merchants continue to lend to her (China, Arabs, Japan, EU, UK).

One last note. Babylon means confusion. In America, we dont have a national language, and we are the only nation that DOES NOT have a national language. What does it mean to be a American? Other than the natives, 99.9% of the people in America come from all over the world. Also, another big coincidence, babylon the great (US) invaded and occupied historical babylon (IRAQ for a billion different reasons).

Revelation 17:15 Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages

 

You decide.



Tue, 02/02/2010 - 00:57 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

 6Give back to her as she has given;
      pay her back double for what she has done.
      Mix her a double portion from her own cup.

 

You will know the liars from the truth tellers. For the liars suck at math and say impossible things. If something is doubled half of it is counterfeit.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 02:15 | Link to Comment Segestan
Segestan's picture

   Perhaps you should read some of the biblical expectations of Gold .....http://www.bibleprophesy.org/goldsilver.htm

 I'm not a Christian myself, but there has been a One World Currency for over six thousand years it's called ... Gold. The PTB keep trying to pretend they will create a global currency but they only want to replace the real currency with one they can manipulate.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 02:23 | Link to Comment Chaz
Chaz's picture

It's also said in the bible that no one would know the day of his coming... not even the angels in heaven.

That said... I'll tell you something about the whole 2012 thing: it ain't the Mayan Calendar... they'll be the first one to say that.

So if ain't Mayan, where'd the Mayans get it?

The Toltecs.

And what say the Toltecs?

They got it from who the Mayans call 'Quetzalcoatl'.

What did 'Quetzalcoatl' tell them about this calendar??

'At the end of the first cycle, run for the hills'.

What happened?  The Toltecs were conquered by the Mayan/Aztec empire.

'At the end of the second cycle, it gets worse!'

What happened?  Cortez.  'Nuff said.

'At the end of the third cycle, it's even worse than that... then an era of peace, and the golden city of Tula is rebuilt in greater splendor than ever before.'

Maybe there's more to this Quetzalcoatl than he's letting on?  If he's right (he's 2 for 2 and 3 sounds more and more likely) maybe we should bone up on those prophecies.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 06:01 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

It's simple. The mayans were told the great snake would be dragged from the sky.

The chrisitians where told the great dragon would be dragged from the sky and satan would have to come down here build a failed kingdom.

These are all cycles of completion. They start out with authoritarian king models and end up with corrupted authoritarian king models.

The Iching would describe it as a defile in the abyss. It's really just sort of like animal husbandry. The predetors are the liars and they keep lying and withholding the truth becasue it gives them an advantage. They keep telling us to trust them but it's not anything based on experience or reality it's simply an ego expression of trustworthyness. So it's a great system. The predators get to design their pray over and over. By presenting the system as a system of correction and refinement and etc etc they get enormous control over acceptability and try to get us to accept more and more cruelty and control. If we resist we are simply ganged up on by group overwhelming forces and energy so we are left to resist stupid things that are meaningless and reject stupid things that are not the problem. So it's simply carrot and stick programming ease up use the carrot make them think they have some control over the abusers, then bam back to the stick when it suits the situation.

It's like on earth here. The authorities are always promoting and punishing corruption as it suits them. There's all kinds of prophecy and spritual stuff all over about how this is all going to work out in the end. It's all part of the advertising program. It always ends badly but next time we'll find the mistake. Let's just do it one more time.

Facism and dicatorial behavior run by men who pretend to have limits but the only limits they have are the ones WE can enforce on them. We're supposedly segmented into 14 groups and controlled along those group lines and if someone is able to gain control of 8 of the 14 groups it's majority rule time. The majority then have to power to take all the rights of the minorities away. Bill Gates studied "The Secret" when he was in college and applied it's techniques throughout his career. Claiming initial superiority and claiming assistance to all who do not hamper him on the way and death and total destruction to those who go against him.

The philanthropy and stuff is just PR to gain more support and take away resistance. Those who want the most power get the most power, those who want to live limited lives the right way in balance with thier fellow humans are always going to feel out of control and helpless against the onslaught of control freak manipulative power hungry behavior. They will always be subjected to offers of friendship to get gain and subjected to having thier dreams of simple life destroyed by those who want to make trouble. It's only fair all they want is complete control complete dominatin and we keep trampling on thier wittle dream over and over so it's only fair in thier minds.

There is no happy ending. It just goes from suck 1.0 to suck 2.0 to suck 3.0 to suck 4.0, 5250 year cycles at a time.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 12:15 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 12:17 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Interesting perspective on philanthropy - the sanctimonious airing out of their ill gotten gains is more sinister than I thought.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 12:20 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 20:05 | Link to Comment Winisk
Winisk's picture

Gods are supremely wonderful as long as the sheep obey.  The moment the flock exerts free will, the fury is unleashed and those benevolent personalities reveals themselves as the raging control freaks they truly are.  We were not likely created in God's image.  The simpler more cogent explanation is that unscrupulous men created gods in their image.  God fearing people are so much easier to rule and be taken advantage of than those unfaithful rebels that seek to disturb the order.  "The Secret" and similar incarnations seek to justify antisocial behaviour.  If you are a helpless victim that is trampled upon, well that's your fault because that was what you attracted.  You did not believe enough.  Your thoughts were not pure.  Your faith not genuine.  That was your Karma.  The bully gets off with a get out of jail free card.  Hell in this world, he gets promoted and is idolized. When people create gods to suit their personal tastes, they reveal how highly they regard themselves, greater than God. All of this strikes me as being analagous to our religion surrounding the Economy.  Our supreme rulers bring us to the brink of apocalypse and then rush in to save the day and we should humbly bow and be grateful for their powerful intervention and don't you dare question them. 

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 07:48 | Link to Comment rubsgen12
rubsgen12's picture

I admit, I have not been on this web page in a long time... however it was another joy to see It is such an important topic and ignored by so many, even professionals. I thank you to help making people more aware of possible issues.
Ruby Genders,
trade insurance

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 01:04 | Link to Comment glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

What a bunch of BS

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 01:06 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 01:45 | Link to Comment Handle with care
Handle with care's picture

Its a bit more complicated as its a balance sheet issue and a cash flow issue.  The further complication is whether the total expected losses should be booked now or as they occur.

In terms of its balance sheet impact, all other US debt is included on the balance sheet, so on the face of it, it seems reasonable to add this to the balance sheet.  But there are plenty of other unfunded liabilities that aren't included, such as future social security payments. 

In addition there are assets that count against these liabilities.  It would be strange to add the gross amount of the debt, and not the net.  Unlike other assets of the US government such as land and buildings and tanks and planes, these assets can be expected to be sold at some point to directly retire the debt.

The cashflow impact is pretty much included now as the subsidy to these entities is accounted for each year.

Overall, I don't think the accounts have been messed about with as unreasonably as some seem to consider and while they have taken a route that is favorable to the overall accounts, I don't think its unreasonable or fraudulent.

 

What is probably not accounted for correctly is the future subsidies needed as I doubt that they've accounted for these in a realistic way, but if they did and that mark was carried to the banks who are holding similar stuff, they'd kill the banking sector.  And who knows, maybe we're all wrong in thinking these asset prices won't recover quickly and they're right in thinking that they will.  It comes down to a matter of opinion.  We'll see over the next couple of years by the size of the annual subsidy who was right and who was wrong.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 10:14 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/04/2010 - 00:08 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 11:45 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

Math is not a matter of opinion.

“What is prudence in the conduct of every private family,” said Adam Smith to the sophists of his time, “can scarce be folly in that of a great kingdom.”

And just the same as with the debt-addicted family, he further observed in 1776:

“When national debts have once been accumulated to a certain degree, there is scarce, I believe, a single instance of their having been fairly and completely paid.  The liberation of the public revenue, if it has even been brought about at all, has always been brought about by a bankruptcy; sometimes by an avowed one, but always by a real one, though frequently by a pretended payment.”

In short, borrowing must some day be repaid.

According to the National Debt Awareness Campaign (NDAC), “Each year since 1969, Congress has spent more money than its income. The Treasury Department has to borrow money to meet Congress's appropriations.”

And now, IMO, they and the Fed have blown the currency—it is neither a measure nor retainer of value, no longer a stable medium of exchange.

You mention Social Security. Putting our retirement trust in the trust of politicians turns out to have been a very poor idea; they have proven to be untrustworthy--dishonest, risky and wasteful—the opposite of what we needed as guardians for our retirement security.  They spent our SS—on other things.

As NDAC points:

“Social Security is not part of the Federal Budget general fund. It is a separate account and has its own source of income. Social Security payments do not go into the general fund, they go in the Social Security trust fund, and should NOT be counted as general revenue. The trust fund is supposed to be used to pay future benefits. But...


”Currently, there is more being paid into the Social Security Trust Fund than is being paid out to beneficiaries. What's left over is routinely being "borrowed" and used as if it were general budget revenue. Government agencies using that money promise to pay it back (IOUs). All of the money in the Social Security Trust Fund has been spent! That's part of the National Debt. So Social Security is just a very large tax collection tool.”

http://www.federalbudget.com/

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 12:24 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Great points. SocSec as another tentacle of control, perceived by the public as a good thing. 

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 02:14 | Link to Comment Chaz
Chaz's picture

My god my god... what have I gotten myself into...

Oh that's right... I unfortunate enough to be born in the 80's.

I'm a 25 year old looking at this.  Unfortunately I know enough about math to know this won't end well... otherwise I'd just drink the Kool aid and say 'fuck it all'.

I ain't touching 401(k)'s or any 'qualified' plan with anything with less range than a bullet from 100 yards away.  Life insurance is the only plan I've got right now.  I ain't going any farther than that.

Is it safe to say that with the whole system so at risk of tumbling down, that I shouldn't be worried so much about saving for retirement?

I would love to buy gold but that takes far more money than I have.  What's a good alternative?

And what's a good suggestion for a first time firearm owner?  All my gun owning friends are telling me 'shotgun'.

Just a confused first time poster who's going to desperate ends to keep myself alive and sane.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 02:48 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 07:46 | Link to Comment yourapostasy
yourapostasy's picture

Chaz, if you don't have enough to buy any gold, you should still save cash. You'll need walking around money to at least stay mobile, even (or especially) in the event of a currency crash. Your reference to 401(k) tells me you are likely in the US. I would start learning another language if you don't know one already. That alone will open up options for you to emigrate if there is a crash. Besides learning another language (and culture), what will really open a set of stable future possibilities for you is if you start establishing a geography-independent (globalization-compatible) business now.

I would not commit to a family until I could at least have a stable (6-8 year history) income from my own business. If I were your age again, and single, I would move into a student co-operative or a similar arrangement to drive my fixed costs of living (shelter, energy, potable water, and food) to dirt cheap levels to increase my incoming cash. If I had 20-30K accumulated, then knowing what I know today I would have bought some land in the nearest unzoned, unincorporated area with Internet access, then built my own buildings (doable with slipform and other alternative building techniques) buying materials with cash and staying out of debt with my own labor while I rented. As you get older, your spare time evaporates while more cash starts flowing in; I used that spare time to learn what I needed to launch my own business, but if I had to do it over again, I would take a detour of 2-3 years to first establish my own property. Trying to accommodate the fixed costs of living for a family is much more difficult if you do not have that property squared away first; it becomes a race between your business income meeting the expense requirements. While I'm pulling it off, it's a distraction I would rather not have to deal with today.

The first-time owner's choice of firearm depends upon its intended use. If it is for home defense, your friends are correct that a shotgun is the proper choice.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 12:47 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 13:15 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Excellent contribution.

If I may add my personal fine-tuning I would say learn Spanish. All things equal Spanish will serve you the best. You could learn French, and go to Quebec. You could learn Swahili and go to Africa. And on and on. But if your ability to leave the country, for all the various, complicated reasons, is hampered, Spanish is the language of the American backyard now. And you can always go to the latin countries to the South. I would prefer not to leave the hemisphere, personally. With all the locally available resources one's ability to become fluent will be the easiest with the Romance languages: Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese (think of all the nooks and crannies in Brazil).

But I'm not going anywhere. I'd rather deal with tyrants here than elsewhere.

As for a firearm the shotgun is quite popular but it is a mistake for a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd choice. The shotgun requires two hands to operate, is large, fires slowly in comparison to other firearms, and requires frequent, cumbersome reloading. In a home defense scenario with a semi-automatic pistol you will have a free hand to manage doorknobs, railing, light switches, flashlight, etc. You can also maneuver more quickly. Yes, the shotgun has knockdown power, but one or two hits with even a small caliber pistol/revolver, with shot placement hitting anywhere from the sternum up to the forehead will instantly end most scenarios. Many would question if having as many bullets on hand as possible is "overkill". I ask you if you are in defense of your life and loved ones if you would not want to ensure that your ability to stop threats, often multiple intruders, is absolutely maximized? There is no such thing as a fair fight. The intruders have made their decision.

A semi-automatic pistol, such as a Glock, is the best first purchase for an able-bodied individual. Revolvers are extremely reliable, but reloading is more cumbersome and pistols have 2-3X the cartridge capacity - a pistol requires more energy and practice to master, with substantial benefits.  The Austrians have nearly perfected a firearm with the least amount of moving parts: it works. Who cares if it is popular or "gangsta". Glocks are very reliable and parts and accessories are widely available. 9mm, .40, or .45 caliber in order of "knockdown power". Macho men swear by the .45, law enforcement loves their .40, but 9mm personal defense ammunition will end any conflict if you can aim. If you can't aim it won't matter what your choice of caliber is. 9mm is more shots and less kick - forget all the macho talk.

Go to a local range (with a friend; many ranges don't allow single shooters because of suicide risk) and drop some cash to try them out. If the gun looks ugly, isn't comfortable, etc get over it. You are choosing a tool for which you will defend your life. If your life is not in danger then you can use pepper spray or blunt objects to end a threat. A gun is only used to defend life. This is a very personal decision and it would be wise to seek the best training and literature to gain the proper mindset.

Your second choice of firearm depends on your location. If you are urban I would recommend another pistol, preferably the same as the first. Why? What if your one pistol malfunctions, is stolen, is confiscated, etc. You are back to square zero. And a pistol because although it is perfectly legal to walk down the street in many states with a rifle slung over your shoulder it draws all the wrong attention. If things get ugly enough for you to need to carry around a rifle you will be promptly shot and your valuables removed from you. A pistol can be concealed. And you can bet there will be many, many people illegally carrying a pistol. A law-abiding citizen with a concealed weapon is your friend, not your enemy. It is not the job of the police to protect: they collect evidence and suspects after a crime has been committed. The Supreme Court has ruled against the notion that law enforcement is required to protect the lives of citizens that are perfectly capable of doing it for themselves. And help from law enforcement is only minutes away when seconds count. 

If you are in a more rural area your second choice would be a rifle, preferably the M1A. But that's going in the direction of claiming your birthright as a free citizen. It's a lot of commitment so I understand if all you want is something to shove into your pants to feel an adrenaline rush - without training and the proper mindset you'll end up pissing yourself or as another sorry statistic. Get serious, and good luck.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 14:59 | Link to Comment yourapostasy
yourapostasy's picture

Responding here so Chaz can follow the thread. Very good clarifications from WaterWings. If you will do more than most people and at least practice enough to qualify and maintain your concealed carry license (I recommend moving to a state that has at least shall-issue concealed carry), then his advice is absolutely spot-on. I usually recommend a shotgun for people who seem unsure of their commitment to staying proficient. It's as close to a working "spray and pray" that you will get (though in close quarters the spread will still be surprisingly tight) without hardly any training, and the racking sound is deterrent to the casual crooks like neighborhood kids on a lark. If you are the type that knows the maths we are facing and can run the numbers on the net expected gain of participating in their 401(k) versus staying out of it, then you likely live in a fairly decent neighborhood where most of the bad guys are not habituals and pros, and would scatter at the first sound of opposing force.

I myself started with a revolver, now my SO and I have what sensationalist media would describe as "an arsenal", and enjoy practicing with them. As hobbies go, if you stick to dry firing, air rifles/pistols and .22 caliber for the majority of your practice, saving the larger calibers for checking your proficiency, it's pretty cheap. I know plenty of people who spend more on pimping their rides.

Don't pay any heed to Anonymous #214800, that defeatist attitude will ennervate you at best or get you killed. Remember, before the firearms, shelter, security plans, stored food, or any of that 3-day to 3-decade range of preparedness for the unexpected (more from nature than from man), there is the right attitude. You can have the most sophisticated doomstead on the planet staffed with all Special Operations folks, and none of it matters if you don't mount the right outlook on life. In fact, nothing in life in general matters if you have a crappy attitude.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 09:29 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 13:16 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

80% gold = savings account

20% silver = checking account

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 16:53 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

Chaz, you have received excellent advice. This website astounds me. One more mention, the sound of that first shotgun blast in a dark enclosed place. You’ve got to be a really devoted crook to go against that; he will think a hand grenade has gone off. I can’t believe most would wait around for the second shot.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 17:33 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 19:18 | Link to Comment Francis Dollarhyde
Francis Dollarhyde's picture

If you can't afford gold, buy silver. It's better for "walking around money" anyway. Think of a 1 oz. coin as a $20. Silver is groceries and shoes and gasoline and all the other stuff you need. Gold is for major purchases and long-term savings.

Buy a Glock 19. Shotguns can't be concealed, and you're going to want a gun you can carry. Glocks are inexpensive, commonly available, basically indestructible and very simple to use. The model 19 is the compact version of the original 9mm Glock 17, making it easier to carry, but large enough to shoot comfortably for practice. 9mm is probably the most commonly available cartridge, and is relatively cheap. You still have the option of using more expensive, high pressure (9mm +P or +P+) ammunition for stopping power. Glocks are sturdy enough to take it. With the G19, you also have the option of using magazines from the G17 and G18, so that's one less thing to worry about.

After you have a Glock 19, buy a holster, a good belt, at least 10 magazines, and 1,000 spare rounds of ammo. Then buy another G19. ("One is none and two is one.") Then if you still have some money, buy a Remington 870 shotgun.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 22:16 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Buy food, Buy silver, buy a .22, buy a shotgun, buy a good handgun. In that order.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 05:08 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 05:17 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 06:20 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 07:29 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 09:57 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 07:47 | Link to Comment fresbee
fresbee's picture

Tyler
brilliantly put. I had completely forotten about the freddi and fannie. I cant believe I missed that when I saw that budget.

what a nice lil error :)

Fresbee
http://www.investingcontrarian.com

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 07:55 | Link to Comment fresbee
fresbee's picture

I too am a Christian. But if you are a christian, then you shouldnt be putting a date to the coming of the Lord. Bible says "No man knows his coming".

But yes the destruction of dollar and the new currency should happen soon....

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 14:50 | Link to Comment Great Depressio...
Great Depression Trader's picture

2012-2013 is a approximation. I hate putting a date to the coming of the Lord. I claim it is a possibility. Some strange things happened in 2005, which could be the start of the 7 yr period. 2005: Gaza pullout 38 yrs after the 1967 war, Moses and the people wandered around the wilderness for 38 years. , Hurricane Katrina. Asian Tsunami struck right before 2005.  1967 also ushered in Woodstock, the begining of the "spiritual rebellion".

Consider that the world is living in one of the most peaceful times ever. Most people balk at this statement initially, but when u think about it its true. Europe: peace. North America: peace. South America: peace. Asia: peace. Middle east: low level conflicts in Iraq, Af-Pak. Africa: relatively peaceful. The world has not had a major conflict in a long time. Oddly enough, no major power has fought a major power since the 40's. Iraq/Iran was the last major conflict involving stronger nations. People are living in unprecedented peace, but are more scared of war more than they ever have been. "Wars and rumors of wars?"

If 2005 was the start of the 7 year period, then in end of 2008 would mark 3 1/2 year turning point. Things went sour as the global financial crash began. Also, Israel broke its Gaza pullout agreement and conducted the largest operation there, using white phosphorus (supplied by US).

Spiritually, the world is dead. The last "christian" nation, believe it or not, is the USA. Europe has fallen off as most Europeans either dont believe or just believe but thats its. There is no large community of Christians in EU region. Same thing with South America. You have your Catholics, but most of them are Christmas/Easter types, with the exception of the old people. China is mostly athiest or Buddhist. Same with Japan. India, is Hindu. ME is islam. So what does that leave us with? USA. USA has the largest percentage of church attending population in the world. Megachurches are full every weekend, even weeknights, a phenomenom not seen across the world. We are the only industrialized nation that does not allow prostitution. This is the country that elected a "christian" president, one that had wild support among the churches. A president that invaded and attacked a country because God told him to do it. A president that wished to propose a constitutional ban on gay marriage, and the churches went wild. My point being, we are very much a "christian" nation.

But what happens when there are barely any true believers left? What precludes God from beginning the next chapter at that point? I believe that America, the last truly christian nation has fallen off. I believe that the church here became corrupt, as it did in other nations. By becoming corrupt the people reject the church and the Lord. I believe there are believers scattered all over the world. But by and large the faith is dead. And the American church, the last "strong" church, has turned into a pharisaical institution, pumping out a bunch of arrogant, haughty, hateful, and bloodthirsty pharisees.

1Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2He said: "In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared about men. 3And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, 'Grant me justice against my adversary.'

 4"For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, 'Even though I don't fear God or care about men, 5yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won't eventually wear me out with her coming!' "

 6And the Lord said, "Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 09:06 | Link to Comment Tic tock
Tic tock's picture

Yeah, and what's he going to do when he gets here? Talk to these people? Let's face it, the wealthiest of the wealthy and all their minions are caught in a vicious loop which is dragging all of US along. The single 'material' element to 'rule' is the ability to control money - see TBTF Banks. And they, by any known yardstick, are completely fucked. We've played with accounting regulations, we've taken away their liabilities (and injected over a $trillion into their reserves), we've taken away the 'cost' of money. And they are still sitting ducks.

Currently, the banks are toast. The Consumer is king. Everything depends on the prices he pays to meet his needs. All the credit markets, currency markets, futures except softs, these are all becoming more fragile by the day- as unemployment worsens.

Right now, to my mind, the currency failure is most important. The forex market really needs to correct. A collpse in the dollar and the final policy on soveriegn debt in the Eurozone. 'Cos without a viable currency going forward nothing is going to work.

Innerestingly enough., Babylonians were among the first regions to be comprehensively 'banked'... and also amongst the first to espouse an equal/blind code of the law.         

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 09:45 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 11:06 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 11:22 | Link to Comment IBelieveInMagic
IBelieveInMagic's picture

Slight change of topic... 

Anyone know what happened to bailing out the muni bond market -- there was some proposals to guarantee muni bonds by the federal govt.. Does anyone know where those initiatives stand? Otherwise, Muni bonds may be ready some serious action with all the local taxes shortfall...

 

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 13:14 | Link to Comment Invisible Hand
Invisible Hand's picture

"Build America Bonds" are (taxable) muni bonds, subsidized by US Govt.  This allows issuers to provide investors higher returns, without higher borrowing costs--the Feds pay part of the interest, either through direct subsidies or tax credits.

Cost currently "only" a few billion/year.  Obama wants to make this program permanent.  Might it not replace the traditional muni bond? 

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 11:55 | Link to Comment jc125d
jc125d's picture

Guarantee is only as good as the guarantor. Wonder if BO and the Fed will ever entertain a nice little debt/equity swap. Chinese and Russians would forgive $X in our sovereign debt in return for the national parks, or say, Iowa.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 12:22 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 02/02/2010 - 13:02 | Link to Comment Invisible Hand
Invisible Hand's picture

Saw this article on the fallacy of assuming that debt is no problem as long as we can make the payments--today.  Once we have a major sovereign default (maybe not Greece but Spain will do it, or Japan) the cost of debt service for the US will skyrocket--and we will default.  With our government, can't see any hope of solution.  Suggest you "eat, drink, and be merry" because tomorrow--or soon--food and drink are going to be hard to come by.

http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/12/on-the-sovereign-debt-crisis-and-the-debt-servicing-cost-mentality.html

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 14:22 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 02/03/2010 - 06:24 | Link to Comment JimboJammer
JimboJammer's picture

Good  job  Tyler...  You  don't  miss  a  beat..   There  is  no  way  all  this money  moving  around  will  fix  anything..  China  won't  support  our  problems  anymore....  get  out  of  paper  assets  and  buy  Gold / Silver  before  this  house  of  cards  falls  down..

Wed, 02/03/2010 - 06:56 | Link to Comment JimboJammer
JimboJammer's picture

Where's  your  Crown  King  Nothing....?    Where's  your  Crown....?

When  it  all  crashes  down....

Wed, 02/03/2010 - 16:06 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 02/03/2010 - 16:06 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/04/2010 - 03:57 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/04/2010 - 17:08 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/04/2010 - 22:38 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 11/30/2010 - 03:09 | Link to Comment Karston1234
Karston1234's picture

Once we have a major sovereign default (maybe not Greece but Spain will do it, or Japan) the cost of debt service for the US will skyrocket--and we will default. High School Diploma | Online GED | Online homeschooling | Earn Diploma | Accredited High School Diploma

Wed, 02/23/2011 - 03:06 | Link to Comment shawnlee
shawnlee's picture

Saw this article on the fallacy of assuming that debt is no problem as long as we can make the payments--today. Once we have a major sovereign default (maybe not Greece but Spain will do it, or Japan) the cost of debt service for the US will skyrocket--and we will default.
http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/12/on-the-sovereign-debt-crisis-and...
,
really helpful article
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Fri, 04/22/2011 - 01:05 | Link to Comment hushcat
hushcat's picture

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Sun, 04/24/2011 - 06:31 | Link to Comment kiran1234
kiran1234's picture

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Sun, 04/24/2011 - 07:07 | Link to Comment kiran1234
kiran1234's picture

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Mon, 05/23/2011 - 00:18 | Link to Comment kummar
kummar's picture

Once we have a major sovereign default (maybe not Greece but Spain will do it, or Japan) the cost of debt service for the US will skyrocket--and we will defaulttestking 70-648
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sun1's picture

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Tue, 05/31/2011 - 00:44 | Link to Comment kummar
kummar's picture

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sun's picture

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sun's picture

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Tue, 07/12/2011 - 01:39 | Link to Comment newdeals2
newdeals2's picture

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Tue, 08/16/2011 - 00:24 | Link to Comment newdeals2
newdeals2's picture

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