"Odious Debt" - A Definition

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Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:11 | 1371630 Sudden Debt
Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:17 | 1371645 Cassandra Syndrome
Cassandra Syndrome's picture

Sweet find SD, nothing like a bit of Rothbard to explain the madness we live in now. I wonder what he would make of it all if he was still alive?

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:22 | 1371687 g
g's picture







Good stuff, all available at mises.org

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:47 | 1371795 Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture





Just putting some good names out there.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:47 | 1371818 g
g's picture

Agreed, good choices, add




Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:51 | 1371838 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

John Mauldin's "Endgame" is recommendable, too.

As is "Monetary Regimes and Inflation" by Peter Bernholz.

And Reinhart/Rogoff's epic "This time is Different".

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:27 | 1372001 string
string's picture


Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:33 | 1372020 TruthInSunshine
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G. Edward Griffin, a true pioneer who exposed the farce that is our de-loved 'Federal' Reserve Bank (how it came into fruition and who were the players behind its formation and their goals), the ultimate Ponzi of fractional reserve banking-based economic policies, writing a precise, historically accurate and priceless national treasure in the form of one of the greatest works of non-fiction of all time.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:35 | 1371754 nevadan
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Is that where the info on the pound sterling came from that you cited for me a couple of weeks ago?

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 15:30 | 1372284 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

no that was a combi info :)

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:21 | 1371972 Syrin
Syrin's picture

Another who frequents mises.org


Brings a tear to my eyes.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:15 | 1371632 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

ALL government debt is odious.


Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:19 | 1371655 redpill
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Odious Maximus Debtious, I think he was a Roman emporer...

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:35 | 1371752 mayhem_korner
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His cousin tid bittus velocitus was the roadrunner...


Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:22 | 1371942 Manthong
Manthong's picture

I learned all that I know about the three laws of motion, gravity and the lever from those two.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:23 | 1371981 A_MacLaren
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A MONETARY system based on debt is Odious.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:12 | 1371640 the_magician
the_magician's picture

a.k.a. odorous debt.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 22:02 | 1373299 Sambo
Sambo's picture

malodorous imho

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:17 | 1371648 TheTmfreak
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I have been thinking about this for some time.

One could argue that ANY debt occurred by a government on the behalf of the people would be odious debt. Who defines best interest of the nation? Mob rule? Those who "won" and get to write history?


Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:59 | 1371881 Mad Cow
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How can a state, that can print its own money, be in debt?

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:13 | 1371954 Jason T
Jason T's picture

You are thinking of Lincoln's days when he issued Greenbacks or Hitler when he issued state backed bills of credit.  

America has a bank called Federal Reserve whom we borrow money from and pay them interest on.  America doesn't print its own money, the Fed does the printing and they get to charge citizens of the once sovereign nation called the USA interets.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:20 | 1371965 Mad Cow
Mad Cow's picture

Thanks, that's exactly why the debt is bullshit.

Thu, 06/16/2011 - 01:23 | 1373629 FlyPaper
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Bullshit unless you were the one who earned the money to loan to Uncle Sam.  Not so much bullshit for the lender - it was real money at one point.  That a bank can use a computer to produce money and not do a damn thing that is productive in terms of actual wealth creation, demonstrates the leech-like dependency of the financial and banking system on real producers.  This is why our banking system will fail; we're out of assets and we destroyed our economic base.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:29 | 1372010 traderjoe
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In the fractional reserve system, the commercial banks loan money created out of thin air, at interest. And in the case of UST's, against the collateral of the future labor of debt-slaves.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 15:10 | 1372071 Mad Cow
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Private banks should be allowed to lend at interest, provided those loans are not created out of thin air just as you say. If someone wants to get a loan at interest, it's their choice.

The money "created" at the Fed, or any other privately owned central bank, should not have interest attached to it at birth. Therefore, the people of a country cannot be in debt, because their gov can print its own money, with no interest attached. So when you hear someone say, "austerity," you can tell them it's all bullshit, and a fraud, to enslave.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 17:06 | 1372619 Uncle Remus
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Austerity, yet another word for nothing left to lose.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:07 | 1371897 GoinFawr
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Try that one on your student loan officer (assuming you don`t live in a nation that sees the value in post secondary education and has a high enough standard of living to stand behind it).

Oh shit, nm, that`s `personal` debt, there can never be anything odious about that... we all know that every seventeen year old is well versed in the dynamics of personal responsibility years before they mark their 'x' on any legally binding documents.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 16:52 | 1372577 RockyRacoon
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Understanding Coercion

Everyone understands why it's wrong for a hoodlum to demand that you hand over your wallet, and threaten you with violence if you don't. But very few people understand the corollary between that situation and the insidious nature of government's coercive powers.

The following short illustrated video from Reason.com does a great job of explaining the fundamental failure of principle in the operating methodology of today's nation-states. It is very well worth a watch, and passing along.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:19 | 1371653 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Good thing we elected smart people with our best interests in mind.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:17 | 1371661 Highrev
Highrev's picture

How long have you had this post queued up and ready to go?

Always in front of the curve. Great job as usual!

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:22 | 1371668 The Fonz
The Fonz's picture

Here comes RUT 780, this is where unlimited buying appeared two days ago...

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:25 | 1371696 The Fonz
The Fonz's picture

There it is, solid unbreakable wall of green ticks. Fucking obvious.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:34 | 1371749 richard in norway
richard in norway's picture

but how do they do it, it seems to be a hosepipe strategy, is it done through the banks, or is it the central bankers acting in concert


i can see whats happening but don't understand the how

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:44 | 1371775 The Fonz
The Fonz's picture

The money has to come from the Fed, algos are implementing the strat. Its too obvious though, you HAVE to lie to the market to keep it from eating you alive. Someone is going to come up with an algo to eat their algo.  


Who the hell is getting these stocks though?

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:50 | 1371816 richard in norway
richard in norway's picture

i think it might be the taxpayers that end up with the worthless stocks, but not to worry they sell the stocks at a loss the day after




but the important thing is that the tv news does not talk about a stock market crash

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:04 | 1371825 The Fonz
The Fonz's picture

I am sure the taxpayers paid for those stocks, what I am concerned about is who gets them :)

Today is get a drink early day. Like now.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:28 | 1371673 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Debt = slavery

Ponzi scheme of fractional reserve banking (see Modern Money Mechanics, the esteemed 'Federal' Reserve's own playbook) relies on increasingly larger issuance and absorbtion of debt to keep the fiat=credit=debt economic "growth" continuing, lest the pillars of salt upon which the foundation of their structure collapse.


***Bankster/Jackal Breaking News Alert***

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke has pleaded with the indebted all over the world to NOT, we repeat, NOT pay back their debts - assuming his message is to the small minority of entities and individuals that are so able to do so - (this defeats his efforts to destroy the holding power of entities and individuals to maintain ownership over their most valuable and necessary assets), and more importantly, he is pleading for all to please take on as much additional debt as possible, as it is the patriotic duty of all to their alleged sovereign nations to do so, even as their sovereign nations to which they allegedly belong cut deals to sell the soil from underneath the very feet of their citizenry. Thank you, and God Bless the NWO, Fractional Reserve Banking, Ponzi & The House of RedShield.

***This Has Been A Bankster/Jackal Breaking News Alert***

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:19 | 1371677 Clampit
Clampit's picture

Sovereign debt - the ultimate unsecured debt.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:30 | 1371730 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I didn't junk you, but the world WILL soon find out  how 'secure' the Greeks, Portugese, Irish, Spaniards, Italians, and yes, ultimately, Brits and Americans believe 'sovereign debt' (an oxymoron by definition if a nation's ability to print its own interest free currency hasn't been hijacked, but I digress) really and truly is.

The Greeks very well may hang the politicians and banksters on lamp posts, and even if that is just the beginning with the PIIGS+UK+Japan+US ball rolling now.

No people seem to like it when shadowy figures start staking claim to their terra firma.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:03 | 1371902 Clampit
Clampit's picture

At some point in fiatopia the rubber will meet road as dreams of Ponzi promises meet the reality of surplus labor by ensuing generations. Thinking it's possible to tax labor enough to cover the real [inflation adjusted] promises is one of the more preposterously stupid things one can do, especially with said labor reading up on the capital monopoly here in intertube land.

And keep the junks coming, it's rather entertaining to watch people fight the current.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:15 | 1371904 Cdad
Cdad's picture


Welcome to the BlowHorn [CNBC] Cliche Downs.  It is a lovely day and the track is dry.  Just look at those colorful jockeys and interesting people in the stands.  This is a seven horse claiming race.

The line up:

In gate #1, we have Buying Opportunity, a 2 year old gelding and one of the favorites for today's race.  In the second gate, Historically Cheap Valuations, going off at 1.1:1.  In gate #3, Kicking the Can Down the Road, who just two days ago was posting odds of 3:1, but  is now sporting a .25:1 payout, today's odds on favorite.  In gate #4, Global Growth, an old stag who has seen his odds widen to 4:1 overnight.  In gate # 5, Channel Check, a horse that has recently seen some controversy.  Multiple blood tests have been administered on this gelding by Expert Networks, but no substances have been found in the animal and the BlowHorn race commission has given him the go for today's race.  In gate #6, a special horse that has not raced in almost two years, Ring Fence.  And in the outside gate, Mutual Fund Redemption, the long shot going off at 5:1, a comparatively small horse in stature that no one can see coming, to be sure, but fresh off a recent victory at the Alzheimer's Run.

The jockeys are warming up 'em up.  Mutual Fund Redemption is high stepping it, looking very sporting, indeed.  Buying Opportunity is looking ever calm and confident.  Historically Cheap Valuations...and oh my, look a the size of those balls!  Place your bets gentlemen as the windows will be closing shortly.





Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:36 | 1372036 traderjoe
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Nicely played.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 18:04 | 1372769 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Great post coming to you from the infield of Santa Anita.      Milestones

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:23 | 1371678 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

As Dirty Harry once said: "Go Ahead. Buy My Dip" 

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:24 | 1371681 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Odious debt = insanity defense

Where's Johnnie Cochrane...

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 13:29 | 1371701 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If the debt doesn't fit, you must acquit!

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:27 | 1372002 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

If the debt is odious, it'll take your guns to deal with us!

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:29 | 1372011 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

How about "If the debt doesn't fit, don't pay shit"

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 15:04 | 1372167 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The opposite of that is Bernanke & Dudley's Maiden Lanes (all of them, however many there are), stuffed to the gills with priceless treasures [sarc] like 'The Red Roof Inn,' which are now worth approximately 3 cents on the dollar of what Bernankistain paid to the financials formerly holding this toxic shit.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 15:09 | 1372181 TruthInSunshine
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Double tap.

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