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Oil Gusher Worse Than Ever
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Forget 1/3rd as worst case in Revelation. EVERTHING DEAD is the worst case scenario.
Revelation 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
RE
Did it ever occur to most people that "they" want it to get worse? With a distinct hatred of the proles, I am not surprised that the elite don't care about the oil spill and they don't care that the dispersants are even more poisonous.
I believe they passed a law this week that commanded no more turtles die.
The deal is that the pols could not actually manage a two shovel landscape operation. It is all promises and plans and BS. They are incapable of actually getting something executed and accomplished. I don't view it as a measure of whether they care or not. It is simply a demonstration of total incompetence and paper shuffling.
as i see it the function of government is to recursively
restrict behaviors and practices that are detrimental to
collective survival, health and well being. if not populations do not
need it and are better off without it, but that is beastial, pappa likey? perhaps?
they, government, are in natural
collusion with industry, in our current paradigm, as they restrict
but actually "do", or accomplish, nothing. industry does the "work".
left to it's own devises industry will destroy it's own markets,
competition and environments; government left to it's own devises
will become, well, like a bacterial colony in a dish, dead.
so both operate in a financial system controlled by a another party
who lays the two , like black and red on the roulette wheel against
the center, markets to be exploited, a.k.a. you. but you are the source of everything, your consent.
so/? ....... "so what"? m.d.
.
caring is cheap, accomplishing is dear and costly, where is the wisdom?
used to be considered "leadership", now , fiat , marketed bought and sold image,
zombie on parade. ongoing.......................................................
the environment being just another opaque and dismissible annoyance,
can we move on? and dead men tell no tales concerning the particulars of
their unique demise. yes? fraud and capture have altered the nature
of the commensurate structure, now become viral and parasitic ongoing
and ubiquitous.....? infective even? as we all must be able to encompass
it all or become slaves to IT or it is an extention of I in a way, we may not know
but it is in US. ? no?
apologies. but so it rolls on...................................
"People constantly speak of 'the government' doing this or that, as they might speak of God doing it. But the government is really nothing but a group of men, and usually they are very inferior men." --H.L. Mencken
Mencken certainly had a way of cutting through the bullshit of red tape ;-)
The guy was a wizard. He also said:
They could be killing themselves if you are correct.
Yes, almost everyone who worked on the Exxon Valdez cleanup is dead. Except me. I seen it on CNN.
Never!
.... so who are we arresting ? & when are they going to be arrested ?
There are no collection efforts at the moment because of high seas. Large waves have washed up gobs of oil on the beaches. Large plumes of oil are being dispersed with chemicals which may have a deleterious effect on marine life. It is still too early to tell whether these effects will make their way up the food chain but watch the share price of BP for the best indication.
does anyone know, what is the worst case scenario for the ocean and sea life if this thing goes on a year or two or more?
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/12/95793/ixtoc-the-gulfs-other-massive.html
But if the BP spill seems to be repeating one truth already demonstrated in the Ixtoc spill ... that human technology is no match for a high-pressure undersea oil blowout ... scientists are hoping that it may eventually confirm another: that the environment has a stunning capacity to heal itself from manmade insults.
"The environment is amazingly resilient, more so than most people understand,'' says Luis A. Soto, a deep-sea biologist with advanced degrees from Florida State University and the University of Miami who teaches at the National Autonomous University of Mexico.
"To be honest, considering the magnitude of the spill, we thought the Ixtoc spill was going to have catastrophic effects for decades ...But within a couple of years, almost everything was close to 100 percent normal again.''
That kind of optimism was unthinkable at the time of the spill, which took nearly 10 months to cap. The 30,000 barrels of oil a day it spewed into the ocean obliterated practically every living thing in its path. As it washed ashore, in some zones marine life was reduced by 50 percent; in others, 80 percent. The female population of an already-endangered species of sea turtles known as Kemp's Ridley shrank to 300, perilously close to extinction.
There is a difference between the 2 oil disasters (not "spills").
Government Insiders: Get Ready for the Gulf "Dead Zone"the comparison between the Ixtoc spill and the current oil spill in the Gulf has been gone over here, and elsewhere, so I'm not going to bother repeating it - suffice it to say, they are not comparable.
on another thread here today, someone mentioned the CNN clip that says the "average lifespan of a person who did clean up on the Exxon Valdez is 51 yrs old" and that "almost all of those people are dead". . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRrbqBEGxiw
much smaller spill, fewer people working on the clean up. . . not really comparable, but possible similar outcome, hm?
Ixtoc and Macondo certainly are comparable. What do you think was coming from Ixtoc, molasses? Or mud volcano. Or is Macando the mud volcano?
No, it has not been shown here or anywhere else that they are not comparable.
However, I agree that it is much different from Exxon Valdez. Warmer waters will allow faster microbial activity.
How about the potential for named storms. There were 8 in 1979. I do not think any that had a path which would allow the oil to be on the eastern side of the storm. The number of people living on the coast now compared to 1979. Most importantly, the number of attorneys in the US looking for a massive payday.
This is rapidly becoming mere sport... Augustus, as you are so well versed, could you remind us all of the flow rate and the duration of the spill from Ixtoc? Could you present your own well-founded estimate of the current Macondo leak? What of the baseless fear-mongering reports that after only 2 months, the Macondo spill has already exceeded the amount spilled by Ixtoc?
There is NO absolute accurate way to know what either well flowed or is flowing. You have to collect it to measure it. That is simply a fact.
I have read that Ixtoc flowed at an estimated rate of 30,000 barrels a day for about a year. They did not have any success in a capture program on Ixtoc so it all went into the GOM.
Macondo was likely flowing 2,000 barrels a day on day one and is up to maybe 35,000 bls now. I don't know, just looking at the "leak" reduction and comparing it to what is captured, SWAG. However, you have to remember that what you see at the BOP camera is the fizz as buffered by the ocean water. A smaller amount could still create a large cloud. There is no argument about whether the flow rate has increased. Initially there was cement and formation junk in the hole and the BOP crack was smaller. Some of the junk has probably washed out and the BOP crack has eroded from the velocity of the flow through the small orifice. Larger orifice now, lower velocity through it, erosion rate is very low. The flowing oil has not damaged the casing to any appreciable extent. The claims of 60,000 bopd or 100,000 bopd are just nonsense.
What gets me a bit wound up are the claims of "BP won't tell us . . . ." so they are hiding it or lying. They simply don't know. They cannot know. If they could stuff Corroded Disconnect down the well for an inspection then we would all know. My experience with trying to look at the bottom of a troubled well is that a monkey can see it as well as a man. There are lots of people posting here that are champion monkeys. The bottom of this thing is about 9 1/2" with 7" pipe in it and 2 1/2 miles below the mud line. Before the blowout they were able to run all kinds of logging tools and gather information. All of that is available for Corroded Disconnect to analyse and if he failed to do that, he is Ignorant Disconnect. But, now they cannot get down the hole to actually know anything for certain.
However, remember that these wells in the GOM or on land are controlled by the drilling fluid / mud. The hydrostatic pressure of the mud column helps to hold up the wall of the hole that was drilled through and keeps the fluids in the formation and circulating it brings the drilling chips to the surface and out of the hole. Consider that below the last liner they only removed some rock that was 3/4 ft in diameter and about 1,000 ft long. Not much material if you put it in a pile in your back yard. It took a couple of weeks for that last 1,000 ft. I have not tried to calculate it but I expect it would not be more that a load for a 10 ton dump. That is all the DWH and rig crew were contracted to do and it was on a maybe $500,000 a day contract to do that.
The point of the foregoing is that once they make the intercept, and they will hit the target , they will pump mud down the kill well that will flow up the wild well and restore the hydrostatic pressure that controlled the well in the first place. It was controlled by the drilling mud while they drilled that last 1,000 ft to the pay. It was stable while they tripped the tools out of the hole. It was under control while they logged it for a day or two. It was under control while they ran the casing to the bottom of the well. It was under control while they pumped the cement job. We know that something went wrong with the evaluation of the cement job so that it did not seal properly and let go when the hydrostatic was reduced.
This is not a "special" well from any standpoint other than it had several mistakes made at the very end. Nothing special concerning the lost circulation zones. Nothing special with the pressures. Nothing special with the formation thickness or porosity.
How can you say that Ixtoc and Macondo are comparable when Corexit is eating through boats! There's a video of it on youtube.... and it's got experts talking all throughout it .... and a nice soundtrack too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AVyw93sf88&annotation_id=annotation_934611&feature=iv
If Corexit kills Crabs,
I need to keep some at hand.
I worked on the Exon Valdez Oil Spill Cleanup in August of 1989, Prince William Sound, Knight Island. I am 47. I am alive ... I have a complete and thorough physical from 6 weeks ago to prove it. I also know lots of other people that worked the spill cleanup, but some of them are older than me and I don't know if they have had recent physicals or not. I can call them and ask them if they are still alive if you want me to. I would email them, but Giuliani and Cheney would probably fake a reply and we'd be none the wiser. Yes, I think I will call them.
Come back in 5 years to prove you are over the average life expectancy.
well rockford, I'm glad you're healthy and alive, truly.
I posted a link to a news story, and put in quotes what the interviewee said. . . for the record, I don't have a TV nor do I watch such "news" as CNN - I linked what was mentioned by another poster, it's not my "truth".
hey, no one exposed to chemicals dies, we're all healthy here, and if we're not, it's 'cause we're useless eaters and it's our own fault. . . the Gulf spill won't really harm anything, I mean, look at Ixtoc, right? oil spills are perfectly natural, nothing to see, move along folks.
seriously, I'm glad you're okay.
[edit - for the record, wasn't me that flagged you.]
Thank you for the well wishes.
Some people exposed to chemicals do die. Oil spills do harm things, I have seen it with my own eyes. If you want to convey these ideas in a meaningful and believable way, I think you will have more effect if you stick to logic and common sense when presenting your perspective. Posting something as ridiculous as "average lifespan of a person who did clean up on the Exxon Valdez is 51 yrs old" and that "almost all of those people are dead" offends reason and, as such diminishes your argument (in my opinion). I don't know you personally or your history of posting, but there have been plenty of posts from other people here that are simply trading in rumor and innuendo. Your post made me think you were one of them. Apologies if I was wrong.
What's your point? What in the hell does that have to do with Pinatubo?
Lets see. How about you answer some questions first.
What is the spill rate now? What was the spill rate up to now. Is this the only leak? What is the maximum amount of oil that could flow from this well contained at this rate as well as completely unconfined? How long do you wish to measure for? One year, two years, five years? What is the gas to crude mix? How much of the toxic dispersant is being used per day? What is the chemical composition of the dispersant.
And on and on and on. BP isn't talking and the government isn't talking so how could anyone give you a worse case scenario without these answers?
And of course the most important questions of them all. When will you become so fed up, so tired of the lies, deceit and deception that you will do more than your doing now to demand that the lies stop and force the truth to come out? When will we become so fed up, so tired of the lies, deceit and deception that we will do more than we are doing now to demand the lies stop and force the truth to come out?
Corroded Disconnect wants answers on oil flow.
I want an answer first as to exactly why he believes that the flow has been measured? What method would be acceptable to employ that would be satisfactory for measuring it? How would it be implemented at 5,000 ft below sea level? What experience have you had in using it? Where has it been used before to achieve an accurate measurement of thousands of gallons of oil flow with disolved gas being released? If you are continually requiring that a measurement be performed that you are lying about being available then . . . .? You may want to note that since they have begun capturing some of the flow they report daily on the volumes of both oil and gas. Maybe you wern't paying attention. My advice to you, if you have an accurate method of measuring uncaptured flowing oil and gas fluids, get a patent on it.
You wern't paying attention when they told you the volumes of the dispersant used.
I have not found evidence of lies, deceit, and deception. I'm more fed up with those who fail to understand the problem but prattle on and on and on and on. I would like to force them to get an education.
Your perseverance, single-minded and dogged pursuit of oil industry (BP) apologia is to be commended for its consistency and constant nature. Well done, old chap.
Please explain to us why a device such as this one that I found using the keyword search - sonar flow measurement - on this mystical, newfangled innovation called (gasp!) Google could/should not have been installed as soon as the well had a pipe sticking out of the seabed:
http://www.exprogroup.com/products-services/connectors-measurements/clamp-on-meters/
Are you aware of an installation on a well blow out that gave accurate measurement. If you belive yes, what was the reading that the instrument gave comapred to? Explain how it can measure both oil and gas when the gas is in solution with the oil when inside the BOP and the exact gas oil ratio is not known and is changing as it sluggs. Several people have made note of that setup. One person reported on making a phone call to the company and they were directed to a US office and an engineer there. The report was that the fellow said that the instrument would not do the job. Call them and give us a full report on what you found out. Otherwise you are still posting Ignorant Disconnect and hiding the facts in order to promote some deeply hidden agenda. Are you part of that Russian ring that was just rolled up? Or just Google for something and get back to me.
Google directs you to possibilities. You have to know something about what you are trying to evaluate. Stick to hair dye and obfuscation. Hopey Changey will Bury your Soretoe.
When will we become so fed up, so tired of the lies, deceit and deception that we will do more than we are doing now to demand the lies stop and force the truth to come out?
I ask myself that every single fucking day...
Well said. Kudos CD on another good post.
How about we just let the people who know how to do it fix the problem? "We're from the government, and we're in charge now" doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere.
"How about we just let the people who know how to do it fix the problem?"
You mean the people who caused this disaster? You mean give them nearly complete control of the disaster they created? That's exactly what's going on right now.
"We're from the government, and we're in charge now" doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere."
The government isn't there and isn't in charge. BP is running the show and has the government on a leash doing PR and paperwork for the claims. When BP wants to make a change, they send some paperwork to the government for signatures where it's rubber stamped and returned. BP is in full control of the crime/disaster scene.
"The government isn't there and isn't in charge."
The Coast Guard is there and IS in fact charge. Since day one. Remember the Royalty Relief Act of 95? That was an act of congress. Government also permitted them to be EXACTLY there. In fact they wanted them exactly there...over the "horizon" as it were. Out of sight.......out of mind.
They have the final say on everything...after consulting with the lawyers at the EPA, the Dept., the NSA, Homeland Security and the local Hardees.
The Interior Dept. lawyers and the EPA lawyers actually got into a three day tiff over how much methane was being released by drilling the relief well...that's a 120.000 BARREL argument into the GOM.
We really don't want to discuss the governor of La. trying to get PERMISSION from the Feds to erect sand berms to protect the marshes do we?
La. to Barry...send more SWAT Teams!!!...this time with BIGGER SPONGES.
BP and it's support team are making the technical decisions and then running them by the Feds. I agree that there is a lot of EPA/Coast Guard/etc running around. I was responding to the capping/containment/relief well drilling and so on when I said the government isn't in charge. The government has consistently deferred to BP with regard to the technical aspects except on one occasion. Everyone has decided for political purposes to make it appear that Uncle Sam is on top of things. This is why the CG is "IN CHARGE".
The only time that I have heard of the government putting their foot down was when they ordered BP to start a second relief well after the first was started. BP wanted to wait 2-3 weeks before starting the second relief well to keep the second relief well BOP available to replace the broken one if it was possible to do so.
As it turned out, they suspended drilling the second relief well for 10 days while they unhooked and then reattached the BOP from the now already started second relief well when top kill failed and it was recognized they could not swap out the busted BOP.
Relief well #1 started May 2. Relief well #2 started May 16.
Must have been a pretty small foot.
Just repeating what the Coast Guard and the White House claim was the sequence of events. You know, the ones in complete control of these operations. Or at least that's what the government, BP and the main stream media say is how this crisis is being managed.
We will eventually find out is this is really what's going on. If they manage to shut the well down, the people will care less who did what when. If the well isn't shut down, tough questions will be asked and strenuously avoided.
The guy in charge of relief well #1 has attempted 40 relief wells and he has been successful 40 times. Currently they are ranging on the original well bore casing from a distance of less than 20ft. By the way, the fact that they can range on it, refutes the sensational hypothesis of GW's post from yesterday, but why let facts and logic ruin a good drama.
It matters not, the lawyers and regulators will still get paid.
As to who is in charge, the govt. or BP ... I trust this guy's perspective:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsquJWH8eUA&feature=related
Point of clarification;
"Everyone has decided for political purposes to make it appear that Uncle Sam is on top of things. This is why the CG is "IN CHARGE"."
When an oil spill happens in US territorial waters or "informal economic zones" on the continental shelf, the Coast Gaurd is always in charge, no matter who is actually getting their hands dirty.
From day one...and there is a chain of command.
The erruption of Mt. Pinatubo released over 100 million tons of gasses and particulates (17 million tons of SO2 alone) into the atmosphere. If the leak in the Gulf goes on for two years, it will release about 10 million tons of crude oil -- only 10% of the total mass of junk spewed in that volcanic erruption. BTW here is a recent picture of the Pinatubo caldera:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mount_Pinatubo_20081229_01.jpg
A real hell hole, no? The Earth is an amazingly resillient ball of dirt. It will get along just fine with or without us.
Probably a natural disaster.
I am still amazed how some people want to hide behind all kinds of cheap tricks to conceal the deal. Where are the able conjurors, the ones who were artful at dissimulation?
Resilience is a human concept.
The only mattering thing is the consequences on human lifes. Human beings depend on their environment to live. Natural disasters are not welcome in this regard. But they come different from man made disasters as they can not be prevented and not directly the result of human activity.
Your stupid argument that the world can go through much more than that is equivalent to tell that people can live without a hand, a leg so ...
Quick! Throw millions of gallons of Corexit into Mt. Pinatubo !!!
How 'bout some junk shot into Katla!?!?
SHHHHHH!
Ooops. I didn't wake her did I?
Corexit is produced by Nalco. symbol NLC. On Saturday May 1, blue horsehoe planted this story on cnbc that BP is authorized to use Corexit on a larger scale (mass quantities). NLC gapped higher on Monday May 3 and traded 4 points higher and made a new 52 week high on 18x normal volume. As insiders may be aware, Corexit has its downside, to say the least, and I suspect that day was the perfect selling oppurtunity. I haven't checked the latest sec filings, but according to yahoofinance Berkshire Hathaway owns 6.5%.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/36886842
Roger
I can only assume you're recovering from a full frontal lobotomy, and might be having difficulty making reasonable and coherent posts.
Why do you think that one toxin has the same or similar affect on its environment as another?
Using your logic, one could say that 1 million tons of the eboli virus sprayed over NY shouldn't be a big deal, because the GofM has ~10 million tons of oil sloshing around it.
Sorry to infom you, but your analogy is probably the worst I've ever read on this forum.
And your ebola virus straw man is about as lame as they come. The oil isn't being dumped on NYC, and Mt. Pinatubo didn't errupt there. A million tons of "eboli" dropped in the ocean would do absolutely nothing -- the virus would be absorbed and rendered harmless in minutes.
The ash and chemicals from the Pinatubo eruption did affect global weather for a year or two, but the effect was transitory and there were no permanent changes. The oil from the BP gusher will have an impact on the Gulf or Mexico and it would be silly to argue otherwise, but it will not be a "dead zone" apocalypse like some are predicting. Last I checked, oil and water don't mix very well, and an element called Oxygen (have you heard of it?) eventually causes the oil to break down into smaller molecules until it is metabolized by microorganisms.
We will have dirty beaches for a few years, BP will pay the federal government billions of dollars in fines, and ten years from now people will still be looking for an excuse to explain why their cracker-box condo won't sell at $300/SF.
+1000
How many tons of corexit was junked? Earth is a resilient dirt ball; dirt ball homo-elitists not so much.