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Ongoing Cover Up of Nuclear Crisis By American and Japanese Governments and Companies

George Washington's picture




 

 

I've previously documented that Japanese
seismologists and nuclear engineers warned years ago that the risk of a
large-scale nuclear accident in Japan were high, with one Japanese
seismologist warning in 2004 that the risk of a nuclear accident was

Like a kamikaze terrorist wrapped in bombs just waiting to explode.

I also showed that whistleblowers have been ignored:

Years before Fukushima engineer Mitsuhiko Tanaka blew the whistle on the fact that Tepco covered up a defective containment vessel, the above-quoted Japan Times article blew the whistle:

Yoichi
Kikuchi, a Japanese nuclear engineer who also became a
whistle-blower, has told me personally of many safety problems at
Japan's nuclear power plants, such as cracks in pipes in the cooling
system from vibrations in the reactor. He said the electric companies
are "gambling in a dangerous game to increase profits and decrease
government oversight."

 

[Kei Sugaoka, a
Japanese-American senior field engineer who worked for General
Electric in the United States, who previously blew the whistle on
Tepco's failure to inform the government of defects at the reactors]
agreed, saying, "The scariest thing, on top of all the other problems,
is that all nuclear power plants are aging, causing a deterioration
of piping and joints which are always exposed to strong radiation and
heat."

Kikuchi and Sugaoka were ignored. Just like AmIndeed, erican whistle-blowers are being ignored.

And after the March 11th disaster, the Japanese government has been covering up information.

Indeed,
nuclear engineer Arnie Gundersen points out that American and Japanese
governments and nuclear companies are covering up many core facts
concerning the Japanese nuclear crisis.

 

 

Closing Ranks: The NRC, the Nuclear Industry, and TEPCo. Are Limiting the Flow of Information from Fairewinds Associates on Vimeo.

Tepco

Tepco is covering up crucial information, including:

  • After Gundersen pointed out
    that the existence of tellurium at Fukushima implies that
    re-criticality is coming, Tepco pulled the data, saying that the data
    is no longer accurate
  • Tepco is denying that a blue neutron beam - also indicating re-criticality - has been observed
  • Tepco has tried to deny the report of an imminent nuclear scientist that reactor number 2 had suffered a meltdown

Foreign Nuclear Companies

It's not just Tepco. Foreign nuclear companies are covering up as well.

For example, the large french nuclear corporation, Areva, has privately determined that:

  • At
    reactors 1 through 3, the nuclear fuel reached 5,000 degrees, beyond
    the melting point of steel and the zirconium cladding of the spent fuel
    rods
  • Containment in reactor number 2 was breached
    by hydrogen explosions. While the roof of reactor number 2 looks good
    (see photograph below), the hydrogen explosion blew out the containment,
    like a sneeze with your nose pinched and mouth closed will pop your
    ears:
  •  Crops and dairy products are polluted out to 50 kilometers from the nuclear site, well beyond what emergency zone is
  • Unit
    4 experienced "core melt in fresh air". The core melted because the
    fuel pool was cracked in the earthquake. The largest release is from
    reactor number 4. Because there is no containment as to the materials in
    the spent fuel rods, all fission products can be volatilized
  • The person who prepared the Areva report said: "Clearly, we are witnessing one of the greatest disasters of our time."

But publicly, Areva is saying no problem, nuclear is safe.

Nuclear Regulatory Commission

NRC staff privately identified significant problems and dangers at Fukushima, including:

  • A lot of "mud" inside the reactor, from injection of seawater
  • The weight of building with all of the water in them might make it unstable in case of another earthquake
  • Recriticitality of nuclear fuel.
  • Plutonium ejected from fuel pools during the hydrogen explosion. NRC thinks that plutonium was ejected a couple of miles from the reactor

But the NRC is telling Congress and the public that the situation is under control.

Incidentally, Reuters reported yesterday:

U.S.
regulators privately have expressed doubts that some of the nation's
nuclear power plants are prepared for a Fukushima-scale disaster,
undercutting their public confidence since Japan's nuclear crisis
began, documents released by an independent safety watchdog group show.

 

Internal Nuclear Regulatory Commission e-mails and
memos obtained by the Union of Concerned Scientists questioned the
adequacy of the back-up plans to keep reactor cooling systems running
if off-site power were lost for an extended period.

 

Those
concerns seem to contrast with the confidence U.S. regulators and
industry officials have publicly expressed after the world's worst
nuclear accident since Chernobyl began to unfold on March 11, UCS
officials said on Wednesday.

 

"While the NRC and the nuclear
industry have been reassuring Americans that there is nothing to worry
about -- that we can do a better job dealing with a nuclear disaster
like the one that just happened in Japan -- it turns out that privately
NRC senior analysts are not so sure," said Edwin Lyman, a UCS nuclear
expert.

 

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Fri, 04/08/2011 - 08:28 | 1149333 VyseLegendaire
VyseLegendaire's picture

What else is there to say?

 

Buy the Ducking Fip. 

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 08:27 | 1149329 Monday1929
Monday1929's picture

The "aging of the nuclear plants" was unforeseeable. Hindsight is 20-20. it's easy for us to say, "oh, the plants are getting older", but no model in the world could have foreseen the passage of time, at that time. Haven't we all said on our birthdays, "oh, I can't believe another year has passed by", or when Thanksgiving comes, everyone says, "I can't believe Christmas will be here soon".

The Elites are under a lot of pressure these days. Perhaps if we lie down on the roads and let them run us over, their rides will be smoothed and their days will go better.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 11:28 | 1150015 Neutron Ray
Neutron Ray's picture

WTF are you babbling about? Neutron embrittlement and buildup of Wigner energy are just a few of the know issues along with high pressure steam erosion they are well known phenomena. That's why nuclear plants had a original design life of 30-40 years . This "tired old wornout set of reactors was just OKed for 10 more years of "safe" operation with a license extention. These same extentions are being handed out by the NRC in the US to my knowledge well over 30 of these license extentions have been granted to our tired old plants with dozens of other awaiting their rubber stamp. This isn't happening because they are safe it is happening because the US has no choice but roll the nuclear dice because it would take decades to replace the current reactor fleet if there were no objections to them being built.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 12:08 | 1150188 pitz
pitz's picture

Not only that, but thermal uprates are being given out like candy with little to no re-engineering of nuclear systems (most of the required upgrades are to the HP turbine, transformers, generators, and condensors).  Kind of scary, considering where these plants are in their overall life cycles.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 05:51 | 1149074 tim73
tim73's picture

"We specialize in environmental and energy litigation and federal and state administrative law, and we strive to achieve the best possible outcome for our clients. Our technical research and paralegal services are thorough and therefore enable our clients to make timely decisions regarding possible intervention, administrative law hearings, or preparation for litigation."

Arnold Gundersen is talking out of his ass...

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 05:39 | 1149061 tim73
tim73's picture

Phase 5: It must be a big coverup! You headless chickens are so predictable. In this phase you guys whip out the usual whackjobs to "prove" in teevee, it must be a coverup.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 05:38 | 1149058 tomster0126
tomster0126's picture

This is nothing to worry about...the radiation is not going to reach us, just get the pills if it makes you feel safe but don't trip.

 

www.forecastfortomorrow.com

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 05:45 | 1149066 Kina
Kina's picture

Is an unknown since we don't know the total of the cover up and how bad things really are.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 03:05 | 1148951 blindman
blindman's picture

risk is probability x consequence. 

nuclear industry theme song ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SUDZ30_PXg&feature=related

Tom Waits - Big In Japan

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 23:10 | 1148251 Ibsen2010
Ibsen2010's picture

"...Broken pieces of fuel rods have been found outside of Reactor No. 2, and are now being covered with bulldozers, he said...."

I've been scanning all pictures of the ractor site for weeks now, for signs of activity. Were are the bulldozers? Were are the epople working? Can someone post links to recent (say this week's) flyover images ?

 

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 02:10 | 1148847 Seymour Butt
Seymour Butt's picture

As usual, never believe the official version. Chernobyl is nothing compared to this mess.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 23:23 | 1148308 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

They are covering up everything at this point. My rule of thumb of assuming the worst case scenario about this is coming true, unfortunately.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 23:18 | 1148235 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

 GW, great as usual.You should look at the radioactive rain video on you tube.A man finds his car covered with "hot" water.This event is a paradigm changer.....far worse than we are being told.Example...how much Plutonium from the core dissolved and ended up in the ocean in the very hot water they dumped?That question alone is a nightmare with all it entails.Aside from that, Honshu is lost...at this rate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBcXIEYq9vg

 Watch this GW.Then imagine the radiation being concentrated by grazing animals.And then eating said animals or drinking their milk.Our food supply is threatened.

 Seriously threatened.

 

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 22:39 | 1148125 etudiant
etudiant's picture

As a baseline, the outlook as seen by TEPCO is here:  

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110407006089.htm

The punch line:   Radiation levels are very high. We can't do any work there righ now.

This will run for years even if Japan is lucky enough to escape getting a Chernobyl like dead zone.

 

 

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 23:02 | 1148201 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If you read the New York Times article I linked above (with excerpt), the radiation, as admitted on basis on anonymity by Japanese Official, the radiation is so high that it is frying TEPCO's equipment.

 

Powerful Aftershock Complicates Japan's Nuclear Efforts

While a spokeswoman for Tokyo Electric dismissed the analysis, a spokesman for the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency of Japan agreed that it was possible that the core had leaked into the larger containment vessel.

The possibility raised new questions. The Nuclear Regulator Commission said that its speculation about the flow of core material out of the reactor vessel would explain high radiation readings in an area underneath, called the drywell.

But some of the radiation readings taken at Reactors Nos. 1 and 3 over the last week were nearly as high as or higher than the 3,300 rems per hour that the commission said it was trying to explain, so it would appear that the speculation would apply to them as well. At No. 2, extremely radioactive material continues to ooze out of the reactor pressure vessel, and the leak is likely to widen with time, a senior nuclear executive said.

“It’s a little like pulling a thread out of your tie,” said the executive, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to protect business connections in Japan. “Any breach gets bigger.”

Flashes of extremely intense radioactivity have become a serious problem, he said. Tokyo Electric’s difficulties in providing accurate information on radiation are not a result of software problems, as some Japanese officials have suggested, but stem from damage to measurement instruments caused by radiation because it exceeds the maximum dose that they are designed to measure, the executive said.

“It’s killing the measuring equipment,” he said. “They’re blaming it on software — it’s their meters getting cooked.”

Broken pieces of fuel rods have been found outside of Reactor No. 2, and are now being covered with bulldozers, he said. The broken pieces may be from rods in the spent-fuel pools that were flung out by hydrogen explosions.

Keith Bradsher contributed reporting from Hong Kong, and Matthew L. Wald from Washington.

 

This had been in the original article (I can prove it), but has since been removed by the New York Times:

 

"They're running bulldozers around to bury the stuff so it doesn't cook people going by," he said.

 

It was the last sentence of the article as of 7:40 pm on April 7th and has been since removed.

Here is a link with the last sentence NOT since redacted:   

Why would the New York Times redact that last sentence?

If you google it (the last quote about people being cooked), it comes up in Google's cache results, still.

This is but one example:

http://2012indyinfo.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/powerful-aftershock-complic...

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 22:11 | 1148060 nah
nah's picture

some things seem less safe and ridiculously structured as time passes and certain people dont want anyone to find out about it

.

the fact they should have know and are too stupid to tell the truth to begin with

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 22:01 | 1148033 rlouis
rlouis's picture

George - thanks for the continued coverage and presentation of alternative info, reports and views of nuclear experts who may not be expressing the approved propaganda. 

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 22:00 | 1148027 donethat
donethat's picture
For what it's worth, I've been going round and round for two days with HP on a computer I'm having built for me.   I ordered it Mar. 14th and received confirmation it would ship on Apr 4. When I didn't hear from them I called on the 5th and was told everything was on time, I'd get shipping confirmation within 24 hrs.   A few hours after that I received an e-mail saying it wouldn't be built until Apr 19th.   Thus the start of many calls. I can't get a straight answer from ANYONE including corporate in Palo Alto.   They are now saying it's because of the problems in Japan. This is a very expensive laptop and if this is any indication of things to come, the high tech pipeline is getting jammed up big time.   Will probably spread to other industries, we've seen it already in autos.   Things could get very interesting.
Thu, 04/07/2011 - 22:29 | 1148099 etudiant
etudiant's picture

Japanese components are a given for most electronic devices.

The supply chains are very efficient, but correspondingly brittle, as you are finding out.

The outlook is for widening disruption over the next couple of months, as inventory pipelines are drained and specific components run short.

The power disruption and rotating blackouts that are projected to last through the summer will further complicate the recovery. Semiconductor plants for instance just croak if power is interrupted.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 21:50 | 1148004 dondonsurvelo
dondonsurvelo's picture

Nothing is "Totally Safe" and anyone with half a brain would know that.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 21:29 | 1147949 gmj
gmj's picture

I got some IOSAT Potassium Iodide tablets today.  This is from a document in the package:

"Though almost every other country stocks KI [Potassium Iodide] for emergency use, the US is the only major nuclear power in the world without a sufficient national KI stockpile -- or any plan for its distribution in an emergency."

Does anyone have a comment/rebuttal on this?

Be careful who you buy these pills from.  Some of the prices are outrageous.  Anbex is FDA approved, and the price is $10 for 14 pills.  http://www.anbex.com/pricing.php

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 09:55 | 1149575 uno2well
uno2well's picture

Lugol's solution... 2 x 2.5mg drops in the beverage of your choice every day.

Paint a small patch on your skin after a week (1 inch in diameter) and see if it disappears in under 24hrs. If it does, then you have an iodine deficiency and should continue, if it doesn't, then you've reached saturation and can cut back. Fairly simple to self adjust the dosage.

DO NOT APPLY DIRECTLY TO YOUR TONGUE! You will make that mistake only once! 

http://www.jcrowsmarketplace.com/drjarvisarthritisandfolkmedicine.aspx

I should note that I just grabbed this website off the internet, after doing a scroogle.org (because google is fucking evil) search for "Lugol's solution for sale." The stuff I bought was purchased at a pharmacy in Canada a long time ago and is still readily available everywhere. I'm sure that if you read ZH, you are smart enough and can figure out where to buy the stuff on your own.

 

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 22:41 | 1148129 psychologicalmess
psychologicalmess's picture

i'm not concerned for myself, but i am for my children.  and i agree that you need to be careful from whom you purchase these pills, especially, now.  there will be plenty of scammers, selling fakes.  

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 21:42 | 1147985 etudiant
etudiant's picture

Just buy some kelp pills instead. Seaweed is very rich in iodine and it is easily absorbed.

The typical kelp pill has about 250 mg of iodine, rather more than the usual KI pill that contains the recommended 60 mg daily dose, but iodine is just excreted if in excess.

That said, your comment re the limited US stockpile is in line with what I've also heard.

Then again, have you tried to buy a geiger counter lately?

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 22:52 | 1148143 Antarctico
Antarctico's picture

The typical kelp pill has about 250 mg of iodine...

Wrong, wrong, wrong -- the typical kelp capsule contains 150-320 mcg of iodine, that's micrograms not milligrams.  There is a difference of one order of magnitude, that is 1000x, between micrograms and milligrams. Since a potassium iodide table contains 100 milligrams of iodine, you would need to take 400 of your kelp capsules at a time to get an iodine dose equivalent to one potassium iodide anti-radiation pill.  Kelp is a supplement for healthy living, not an anti-radiation measure.

Plus, good luck finding any kelp at your local vitamin store.  In my area, there was a run on the stuff right after the reactors popped, and it's all on back order. :p

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 23:54 | 1148464 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

1000X is 3 orders of magnitude or 10^3

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 00:17 | 1148532 Antarctico
Antarctico's picture

My bad -- thanks for the correction!  The mcg to mg conversion is still accurate, meaning 400 kelp caps (using the above example) to equal the 100 mg of iodine contained in one potassium iodide pill.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 21:28 | 1147943 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

Having been opposed to Nuclear since the Diablo Canyon construction days, I'm more surprised at the press coverage this is getting than at the fact it has finally happened.  This is nuclear power armageddon, no doubt about it, when you have a "radioactive volcano" in the beginning stages and ironically it's not front and center in MSM.  Goes to show you just how fuced up things are today.  Over time, this has very dangerous and perhaps lethal consequences for millions of homo sapiens.  Meantime the news is Charlie Sheen and his whore posse.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 21:11 | 1147890 TexDenim
TexDenim's picture

It's always easy with hindsight to produce documents that purport to show that a disaster was predicted and predictable. Sure, lots of people thought that an earthquake near Tokyo would be horrendous, and it was, but that doesn't mean it could be forecast.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 21:07 | 1147863 terryg999
terryg999's picture

I want to know why there aren't a line of japs falling on their companion swords over this!

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 20:49 | 1147806 Lapri
Lapri's picture

In the meantime, the Japanese government forces the elementary school welcome ceremonies to be held as scheduled, in the high radiation areas. It's just sickening. We're talking about 3 to 6 years olds.

http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/04/radiation-in-japan-nothing-to-worry.html

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 20:57 | 1147831 George Washington
George Washington's picture

Similarly, the Russians insisted people attend Red Day commie parades within the Chernobyl fallout area WHILE THE FIRES WERE STILL RAGING ...

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 20:55 | 1147820 honestann
honestann's picture

Note to Japanese parents within 100km of the plant.

Ignore the government.  Do not obey.  Get your kids far away from the nuclear plant until the liars in your (and every) government and industry tell you the truth.  They would rather kill you and your family in the most horrific way known to man than admit anything.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 20:49 | 1147805 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"U.S. regulators privately have expressed doubts that some of the nation's nuclear power plants are prepared for a Fukushima-scale disaster, undercutting their public confidence"

Diablo Canyon?

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 20:51 | 1147801 DB Cooper
DB Cooper's picture

Shouldn't Obama demand that TEPCO/Japanese deposit $500 billion in gold in escrow for cleanup of the ocean?

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 20:44 | 1147780 honestann
honestann's picture

This BS from corporations and government must stop.

I say this even though I am personally confident that safe [enough] nuclear power is practical.

However, what's happening now is industry and governments trying to protect the scam they've been running for decades... the scam of blatantly unsafe nuclear power.

That must end.  Of course, this is part of a larger and more important issue --- in fact the single most important issue in the modern world.  And that issue is honesty versus dishonesty.  Today, virtually every word out of every large corporation, every government, every central bank and probably every large organization is either a blatant lie, or is intentionally designed to mislead.

This is chaos.  This is free-for-all.  No plan or decision is being made, and no opinion is being formed, on the basis of the facts of reality.  Instead, they are made on the basis of lies.  Since actions have consequences, the consequences of all decisions and actions by the predators-that-be and predator-class will be increasingly destructive and horrific.

Make no mistake.  Nuclear power can be safe... if designed by honest and prudent people.  Make no mistake.  The economies of nations and planets can function well, and life can continuously improve... if only real, physical goods (including gold and silver) are exchanged in transactions.

Make no mistake.  Life can be good.  Life can be efficient.  Life can be benevolent.  Life can continuously improve as years go by, and as humans learn more about the nature of reality.  The reason everything is getting worse can all be traced back to the predators-that-be, the predator-class, and their endless dishonesty.

Honesty => life, health, happiness, success.
Dishonesty => death, disease, misery, failure.

The dishonest == the predators must go.  Otherwise, say goodbye to the failure that was the human race.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 01:13 | 1148720 Dan Alter
Dan Alter's picture

Here is how and where we make our public discourse and news honest: http://www.no1stcostlist.com/index.php

And an even better coming disaster to boot.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 21:59 | 1148025 AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

commendable ideas but you are fighting human nature, unless you hold to an underlying belief in the inherent goodness of people

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 00:26 | 1148537 honestann
honestann's picture

It depends on what you consider "human nature".

Before the dawn of civilization, humans were like all animals - they were "uncivilized"... they were predators.  And sure enough, one of the common techniques of predators is "dishonesty"... hiding upwind or in the tall grass, making false noises, etc.  Yes, dishonesty is an important part of the nature of predator humans.  Are you a predator human?

The natural processes of earth are grossly insufficient to support hundreds of millions of humans, much less billions, to live by grabbing animals and picking random berries for food, and living in caves.  Therefore, to survive today, the human nature of a modern human must be "civilized"... meaning honest and "producer", not a "predator".

So I say to all predators... drop dead, or get your ass out of civilization, move back into a forest somewhere, be dishonest... and go ahead and live as a predator.

Otherwise, your human nature needs to be honesty and productive.  It is simply a FACT, for the reasons I stated above, that mankind is going down the tubes if he continues to attempt to live as a predator.  That is, of course, the direction the predators-that-be and predator-class have set for their followers (which is now well over 50% and rising fast).

Honesty is a requirement to be productive.  If you are dishonest (or just random), you plant the seeds at the wrong time or place, you cannot invent new technology, etc.

So make your choice, boys and girls.  And make no mistake... honesty and productive OR dishonesty and destruction.  That's your choice, whether you like it or not.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 01:09 | 1148709 1fortheroad
1fortheroad's picture

I disagree, its all about being Sustainability. That in itself means no growth going forward.

A world without growth, what would that mean.  We would have to go back in time knowing what that is.


Fri, 04/08/2011 - 15:49 | 1151084 honestann
honestann's picture

Of course sustainability is important.  However, honesty is more fundamental than sustainability or anything else you or others care to propose.  For without honesty, the nature of sustainability will be lied about, the efficient ways to achieve sustainability will be lied about, and every action taken will be designed to destroy the honest and productive and feed the predator destroyers.

Personally, I would love to see a world in which population drops.  That is, quite strongly, my preference.  However, I refuse to be dishonest and claim we cannot sustain 7 billion humans.  We can, and we can even sustain more... IF... we started to behave honestly and rationally (which is not going to happen).  I don't want that world, but I'm not going to lie.  Once I lie, I train my brain to lie about anything else I wish to manipulate to my favor or liking.

Honesty is the core, the fundamental, the absolute requirement of civilization.  The alternative is a predatory world which will end up consuming everyone, starting with honest producers, and ending with less aggressive predators... until the population of earth drops to a few million or a few tens of millions that can survive purely by predatory behavior upon the naturally renewing processes of earth (assuming they aren't destroyed in the process).

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 21:40 | 1147975 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

The last time I heard the phrase "make no mistake" repeated that many times, Barak Obama was making his victory speech.

I wish I could agree with you. Humans make mistakes. Nuclear Reactors are zero tolerant of mistakes, no matter how innocent or otherwise. Hot nuclear fuel stays hot and dangerous for millions of years.

It is the height of arrogance and hubris to create this stuff for a being whose longest lived civilization is around 5000 years, and whose individual lifespan is around 72 years.

 

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 00:33 | 1148589 honestann
honestann's picture

Of course humans make mistakes!  But the problems with the nuclear reactors were not mistakes.  The probability of these exact kinds of disasters were realized, were well known, and were purposely ignored --- probably to increase the bottom line of the nuclear plants.

Believe me (or ask nuclear experts without an agenda), these facilities can be made massively, massively, massively safer.  And I can assure you, there is no mistake about that.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 10:49 | 1149822 Neutron Ray
Neutron Ray's picture

"these facilities can be made massively, massively, massively safer.  And I can assure you, there is no mistake about that".

Yes, but it will make them massively, massively, massively more expensive than they already are . Remember they have to keep producing power "too cheap to meter" there is no mistake about that either.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 16:10 | 1151120 honestann
honestann's picture

Well, let's say neither you nor I is absolutely certain whether "extremely safe" nuclear is cheap enough to compete with other sources or not.  Only a completely honest and careful analysis will answer the question for both of us, and for everyone else.

And THAT is what is needed.  And at the end of that fully honest and careful analysis, one of us will understand our estimate was wrong, and accept it.  I'm fine with that.

I do agree, by the way, that we can already afford to power the world with geothermal and solar and wind... IF... all the inefficiency of government and corporate manipulation is removed.  So we already know we have ways to survive, and survive well, and in fact survive better (because making everyone independent with their own energy production capacity is a good, secure, stable state of affairs).

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 05:51 | 1149075 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Humans make mistakes and the margin for error with plutonium is too small.  We can't hack it.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 16:08 | 1151183 honestann
honestann's picture

Perhaps true.  However, a fully honest and thorough analysis is necessary to decide that.  I agree that plutonium in the context of current nuclear power plant design is terminal insanity.

But also, other kinds of nuclear reactors (see thorium for example) are both practical and massively safer IF they are implemented appropriately (which they already have in test plants).

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 21:49 | 1148002 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

We unleashed this un-natural force into the world without regard for the long-term effects.  Plutonium is the gift that keeps on giving, indeed. 

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 20:54 | 1147819 George Washington
George Washington's picture

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