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Open Thread: This Reader Is Not Making Any Payments On Just Under $100,000 Of Credit Card Bills, Are You?
From the mailbag:
Brief update on my lenders' attempts to collect credit card debt. Stopped making all payments over a year ago.
BANK OF AMERICA $35,000
CHASE BANK $16,000
CITIBANK $30,000
DISCOVER $10,000Chase Bank has been singularly aggressive, in January filing civil suit represented by Zwicker & Assoc. As to the others, collection company mailings and phone calls have mostly ended, leaving the impression that they are following the Chase case. Not at all surprising, but hopefully informative. Perhaps time for another solicitation of related anecdotes?
Update from the reader:
I failed to indicate that this accumulated over 8 years of underemployment, failed business ventures and living expenses. No vacations, no big toys. Clothes are full of holes. Basically a professional trying to sustain temporarily, based upon excellent credit history and 0% offers, a standard of living that I expected to be able to fully afford again and intended to pay down the debt. Never imagined conditions would not turn around but get so much worse. I can understand the angry posts but this is not a case of deadbeat self-indulgence at others expense.
So, dear readers, which is it? Are you all dutifully filing taxes, paying off your bills, sending in your monthly mortgage checks and prefunding Goldman's now-quarterly bonus payments? Or have you maxed out your last remaining credit card to buy Kindles (that's a given) and bars of silver? Let us know.
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I don't have credit cards and pay rent, so no debt to pay off.....just student loans
student loans, but no debt. hmm, finance major perhaps?
:? )
Don't usually smile @ 5:30 a.m. but that did it.
You should not incur debts if the intention is to default. There are responsibilities for both the creditor and debtor. A big ledger is being kept on all people...
One more CC to go and I'm out of that game. Thankfully, I'm still employed so I am able to pay my bills on time and buy silver and copper veneer things shaped like little long cones.
Roger that. "Ballistic wampum."
Sorry to sully your top notch post, saldadbarfeef, but to the OP:
If you don't repay these debts lawfully incurred, you are a theif. Current laws may prevent you from going to jail, but that does not excuse the wrongness of your actions, i.e.; failure to pay your obligations. Any financial reform legislation should include criminal penalties for abuse of the system, payable in labor if neccessary.
Barring this, those savers, finding themselves cornered in Galt's Gulch, will react in terms more harsh than labor.
Do not unenderestimate this republic: it will not die quietly.
Listen clown boy, I got news for you: the Republic died a long time ago. It was replaced by a cheap substitute that was good enough to fool you into thinking you're still living in America, land of the free, home of the brave, but you're really just living under a corporation that considers you an employee subject to all the rights and restrictions set thereupon you.
As far as your moralizing, blow it out your pie hole. This country is finished, and it's only the inertia of the true productivity and wealth creation that ceased long ago that is keeping it going presently. In the place of honest work and decency we've been given instead one fraud after the other, with the patsy always being us.
Well, guess what? Some of us figured out the game, just before the rug was going to (literally) be pulled from under us. And we found a way to fuck the system with its own dick.
So fuck you and your preaching. I got mine, and the Goldmans and JP Morgans and Citibanks and Wells Fargos and Chases of the world can go fuck themselves in a big circle.
As some of you know, my story is that I simply could no longer pay around late spring of last year, so I didn't. I stopped paying on everything but the mortgage (which was modified earlier in the year). I felt and still feel justified. I run a business and I work hard. I was doing my part to help the economy run. When other people much bigger and more powerful than me fuck the system up to the point where I can't make a living, well fuck you, that ain't my problem. So when you fuck up the system so bad that I can't make any money, guess what? You ain't getting any money either, mother fucker.
To wit:
Citibank: ~$28K
Chase: ~$10
AMEX: ~$9K
Discover: ~$4K
Capitol One: ~$4K
Chase is suing. The others so far are going through the collection channels.
You got your bailout, so I took mine. Fuck you.
Am I proud? No, I'm not proud. I used to have around 800 credit score. My credit was fucking immaculate. I took pride in my credit. I once paid off all my credit cards in one fell swoop. And since then I only took on debt to start a business and then during the lean times when business was slow. I paid off a business startup loan in 5 years. I lived fairly simply. I didn't take out a HELOC, though I easily could have, and for major money. But like I said, you fucked the system, so fuck you. Eat shit.
The IRS is after me, too. They're after me now, trying to subpoena records from my creditors, and doing such an incompetent job at it that I am building a civil case against them that will probably have them paying off my IRS "debt" for me when all this is said and done. Let's put it this way, folks: the IRS only has the power that you let them have over you. This goes for ALL government (of which IRS is not, they are a corporation).
Anyone interested in more should simply request it. The truth is better than you can imagine. The Truth does set you free.
I am Chumbawamba.
Rationalization
True, it is. However, I rationalize going to work every morning - "I will take some time off next week" "we are behind now, so I have to be in today". I also rationalize paying my bills - "I really need this car". I am sure that I am not the only one that does this.
Looking in the mirror is never a fun exercise, and calling the kettle black...well...maybe his choice has some advantages to it.
You are no better than the other theives. Other consumers end up paying for your theft. You are a piece of shit just like goldman and jp and the rest of the pile.
Dude you are a dip shit. People create money from nothing and then purchase your labor with it. If you haven't figured out yet that fiat money is a tool for enslavement buy a fucking clue.
Second that. Taking loans under a fractional reserve system is actually where the theft starts. It creates new money out of nothing, transferring real wealth from real savers and producers to those who make their kids pay it back. It's a sick system. NOT paying back a loan is a good way to put things right because it destroys the money in the system.
I third that.
How anyone can scream deadbeat is beyond me.
Quick question for you guys. These banks are creating credit out of thin air and using it to recover your labor and assets.
How is that moral?
Chumba. You're merely a moral repo man screwing them at their own game. Now if they actually put up CONSIDERATION against your credit, then you'd be a deadbeat. But they haven't, so you're not.
You guys are all so fucking smart ,huh. You figured out the "system" and now think you have it beat. Morons, what you all think you're doing is so smart, and will bring the system down. What then? Are you going to take over and return us to some Constitutional paradise? What if we all do that, what then? Just who do you think is going to take over? You? Please. You haven't thought this through beyond "i'm so fucking smart, look at me"
I hope you have some arable land, bullets and guns, and a clean water source. Your precious gold and silver will be worthless in such a scenario (yeah, I'm gonna give you some water or food for some gold, ha!)
Chumba here sounds like most wannabe traders on these boards "its not my fault, I got screwed (insert gov. reason here, it was the fed, it was Bush,etc"
I got the guns, arrable land, and bullets.
Some silver, I've been laid off since August so purchasing large quanties of silver is secondary.
Chumba is a douche bag, plain and simple.
Yep. But I'm a debt-free douchebag with lots of guns and an angry trigger finger. So that's MISTER Douchebag to you, fucko.
I am Douchebag.
I LOL'd!
If we ever meet, I'll buy the beer.
I LTIC"d!
Forgive them Chumba, for they know not what they speak and probably not inquisitive enough to study the other side of the equation to try and figure you out. What was that term.... oh yeah, the lenders "consideration" in the loan contract. When they figure out the implications of that, maybe then they get a right to argue. Till then, keep sticking it up them.
So it's your argument there is no consideration therfore no contract? How so? He rec'd nothing in this transaction to complete the contract? How is this different than a car loan? If you buy a house or car w\ a credit card there is no contract, but there is w\ a mortgage?
It's my argument exactly, because they are not lending an asset to you to pay the seller with. They are isuing you with an IOU, a credit note, a piece of paper tied to another empty promise to pay, which leaves the seller holding an irredeemable, depreciating note, not money. It is a fraud by the bankers, that ends up screwing the third party seller in the process and makes a mockery of honest money transactions. It, through invention, introduces fake money into the supply, defrauding savings through inflation (of the money supply).
The seller, receiving a credit note for his goods, has no recourse in event of default from an essentially bankrupt issuer and has no claim on any reserves of real money from the issuer in bankruptcy claims.
The issuer gets to receive interest payments from the borrower, which he can turn into tangible assets for simply offering a cheque-kiting service.
Let me offer you the same service that a bank offers you, and I can guarantee that the fees will be lower by a country mile. In fact, you will not receive a single cent in service fees from me. I hope that you don't mind that I have the right to lend your deposits out 10x. I hope that you won't mind that, by those actions, I will have reduced the purchasing power of your savings by the same amount, 10x.
I hope that one day you won't discover my little secret about how I actually removed all limitations to how many times I can lend out your deposit, placing them at risk by using them to gamble in various markets, in the search of a pay off for me. If i'm lucky in that regard, I'll keep the profits for myself in the form of a bonus, for being so clever in risking your savings. Oh, and after I have increased the money supply by 100 fold with your paltry little deposit as my capital base: I'll pay you back the nominal amount that you deposited whilst I have spent the purchasing power of your savings, when you first make the deposit. And if I make a lousy bet or two, no worries, the faithful borrower will fix that with his monthly payments to me. Your money is safe, you can trust me, and my use of your money for my ends is socially acceptable, 'cos every bank does it. And it's legal. It's the law you see.
I agree with you, on one point: An honest man should pay his honest debts. When are the banks going to pay theirs? They have introduced dishonest money into transaction agreements, through exploiting the borrower's needs and by providing an arrangement to defraud the seller. What a scam. It is a circle jerk.
Default will destroy these con artist's game.
I know a guy that nicked a bank for more than chumba and he is a church pastor. Actually he'd make chumba look like a piker due to the manner he screwed the bank and the amount. I'm not judging. I believe we have entered that "every man for himself" stage.
Collapse isn't and won't be collective, it is personal, only you will know if it is upon you. What you do from there is your decision.
Um, actually many of us do and some of us are even better prepared than that. Most of us know that metals are for when things stabilize a bit, but in the interim a barter system is likely. Even better, be prepared and need nothing. And be prepared to deal with the newbie "takers" who go Mad Max. Let me guess what camp you'll be in.
So many people running around going "Gee duh, its bad, but NOT REALLY BAD, so therefore its okie didley dokey.
Eat your soylent green and have a nice day buddy. Just don't be surprised when you look down and find yourself in shackles. I guess as long as you imagine a happy world, its just more happiness.
Well, the whole system is going to crash. It has to because the current structure can not last.
Have no idea what comes out the other side. But it will be quite a show. People will be studying and writing about this a thousand years from now.
That big Red, White, and Blue dick jammed up your ass isn't backside love.
It's rape.
Knock it off with the Stockholm Syndrome.
Of course, in a perfect world you would be right.
But this is not a perfect world -it has been highjacked by the smoothest class of criminals.
All bets are off, it is everyone's right to fight the tyranny using whatever weapons they have to hand.
Defaulting on your personal debts against the protected financial sector is entirely valid and a very good bang for your buck................
you Rock. I agree, you go freedom fighter.
"Listen clown boy..."
"I got news for you: the Republic died a long time ago."
He IS Chumbawamba... and that is why I enjoy reading his comments...
Damn dude! That's amazing. You put that fuck head and his post to shame! LOL. Nice work. I normally don't read comments this long but yours was fantastic and I am in 100% agreement with you!
I have no choice in whether I want my tax dollars used to bail out banks and corporations because the citizens have no representation in the political system. If my fellow citizen has fallen on hard times due to the meltdown that was triggered by these institutions which I have to bail out involuntarily then at least I have the satisfaction that some citizens benifited from this injustice.
Chumba check out Micheal Minns, and his legal wins over the corrupt and devious IRS/Gestapo. He has some excellent advice, and has won clean sweeps against the IRS even getting two of their lawyers suspended.
+1
+1
My I borrow you as a mentor?
May I borrow you as a mentor?
Anytime.
I am Chumbawamba.
Exactly why I warn people against doing business with folks in the USA. Just sayin'....
You obviously don't know any proud Americans.
Proud Americans are often called racist tea-baggers these days. It's a shrewd, evil campaign in the attempt to destroy the last bits of American spirit. This is simply history rhyming on a massive scale.
Viciously default, my fellow Americans. It's the least you can do.
Exactly what I mean. Would you make a large move into Greece right now? Just sayin'....
In that case, I see.
That's such an excellent quote, and so appropriate.
Thanks, WW.
I am Chumbawamba.
Ah, well, merci. But it is you I must thank.
+10 squillion
Chase, Citibank, BofA, Wells Fargo - all those bastards RIPPED OFF the American Taxpayer. They did it knowingly. They did it willingly. They did it purposefully. They committed crimes against us. And the cops who are supposed to be protecting us instead facilitated the fraud and the robbery. When the cops and the criminals are in cahoots, the only reasonable response of reasonable people is to take matters into their own hands. Given the nature of the corruption, the only recourse available to us is to directly screw the credit card companies.
Like I said, +1- squillion, Chumbawamba.
I am JackAz
The Republic has been dead since the end of WW2 and we didn't disarm.
I thought the Republic was dead by 1913 or so. Certainly by 1916.
has anyone seen the roadwarrior/Mad Max with mel gibson. our financial world is at that level. you many wussies discussing how those who don't pay their bills are thiefs, etc, etc. is ridiculous. banks are turning over properties left and right back to each other.the government absorbs all the banks bad bets but you are so ignorant in stating that we should all stay in poverty to pay these bastards off? not a chance. there is no moral fabric in the financial world anymore. there is no integrity in either the financial world or the political world. ITS FINANCIAL ROAD WARRIOR. KILL THE BANKS OR BE KILLED YOURSELF
** Edited for Content **
I would love to be able to put my student loans into bankruptcy and discharge them, but they stopped that back in 1994 I believe. If they want people and the economy to come back roaring, the people need to get this debt off their back. And the only way to do that is allow all debt to be dischargeable in bankruptcy court.
Thats what Solon, who is my icon thing, did in what was known as "the shaking off of the burdens." The stone pillars on the peasents land which represented the mortgage debt were all knocked down. This is around 550 b.c. during the worlds very first money crisis. Solon said the hell with these parasite banksters..
Debt burden dragging down the economy was well known to ancient rules. When the debt became overwhelming, they sided with the people and forgave all debt. The plebes with no more debt became productive enough to pay the taxes and spend money.
They knew that high level debt could never be repaid and every several years the wiped the slate by decree.
The same we need now.
It's called Jubilee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_(Biblical)), and we are heading for a massive, global one.
The times of Solon are an extremely interesting case study for what happens under debt slavery. During the early evolutionary stages of this practice it was much more overt, whereas debtors actually pledged their persons as collateral for their loans and the aristorats were happy to collect. Since each individual was able to make this pledge and every aristocrat wanted more slaves the conditions for having most of the agricultural output backed by debt was the natural result. Any disbalance in production would create deflation of this debt and that is what happened.
Poor management of the arable land by the debtors (due to overwhelming competition brought about by the great inflow of competitors into the market), along with new imports of grain contributed to disbalance. Production of wheat went down and so did prices. Like in any deflationary environment, collateral was collected en masse and this led to great social unrest. This in turn resulted in the appointment of Solon as supreme ruler with near limitless powers. He annulled all contracts that had personal freedom pledged as collateral and forbode the practice. He also placed restrictions on the wheat production to limit the overuse of the land and make the Athenian agriculture more focused on growing olives.
Solon also established one of the first, if not the first, constitution in human history. The major differences I see between that great time of debt slavery this time are twofold. First is that when one went into debt slavery then, it was only the single individual's freedom was that was pledged. Today, due to the fact that if you cannot pay, the fed creates more debt and thus lowers the purchasing power of everyone who lives in this system, you indirectly pledge the well being of everyone in your country. It is a long, indirect trail but eventually you pledge all the debtors' ability to hold property. The second difference is that long ago, it took the power of government to break this practice up, while currectly it takes the power and blessing of government to hold it all together.
Is any one familiar with debt forgiveness using the "Redemption Process" by filing a UCC-1 financing statement and becoming a secured party creditor.
Its a very interesting (CRAZY) theory that I looked into briefly at:
1. www.redemptionservice.com and www.ezremedy4u.com.
Also a lady named Mary Croft has a free book out there titled, "HOW I CLOBBERED EVERY BUREAUCRATIC CASH-CONFISCATORY AGENCY KNOWN TO MAN."
There is alot of stuff out there on this subject but I have always wondered the Validity of it.
Here is one such wacky video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r-1zQKxJ9s&playnext_from=TL&videos=7a6tog5EqMM
Pladizow- Interesting way of going about dealing with debt relief. I have been made aware of something much cleaner which allows for "Time" to do the relief for you. Do a Google search for "Contract Law Debt Relief". The idea is simple, doing the same thing CCs do to the consumer back to the bank issuing the CC by altering the terms of the CC agreement. It takes about a 1.5 years to go through the process and the consumer does not need to declare bankruptcy. If Banks can do it, why not the consumer. All others who say this guy is a dead beat, I agree with some of you but sometimes good people get into trouble so nobody really knows until one walks the walk and talks the talk.
Wow....There will be no rest from that sum... collection agencies are a pain in the a**.
I started a one man software development company in 1993 and funded much of it with credit cards... about 20K. I drove cabs periodically when my cash ran low to keep it going. I was starting to get some accounts and a good rep when I blew out my L5-S1 lumbar disc. I was in terrible agony for over a year, couldn't work, sleep, drive, stand, wash properly, had spent all my money on the business and didn't have health insurance. Needless to say, I lost the business, ended up losing everything and considered ending my life the pain was so bad. One thing saved me. I got weekly calls from a guy calling himself Mr. Gravel. He was a bill collector, thought he was a real tough guy, always threatening my ass. He kept me alive. I swore I would survive this nightmare and one day before I died I would track the miserable motherfucker down and give him a really major colonoscopy with a baseball bat but without any of the fucking pain meds. I eventually was able to get insurance and get surgery, and paid back every penny of my credit card debt. When I paid off each cancelled card I asked them to reinstate them, which they all did, and then I sent them back and told THEM to cancel the fucking things. I'm still looking for that motherfucker, and every time I run across one of these threads I'm reminded to pray once again that I get my hands on that little fuck. If you're out there Mr. Gravel, please give me a call...
Wow ANF!
Talk about Stockholm Syndrome!
Or Sympathy For The Devil.
So... Do you also support the Rat Singer's current version of Lolita?
Just askin.....
zabasearch.com
Thanks... I haven't found that SOB Gravel, but I located an old girlfriend!
I was once in business with a Greek developer , who was accused of burning his 1.5 million dollar home , the creditors literally held a party on his burned pad in insult to him. Most are complete pricks.
Woo-hoo! What a story. Thank you for sharing.
Nearly debt free here for a long time, since
hard lessons learned from a divorce 22 years
ago. Recent tough times caused me to have
to take out a loan to buy a used car, it
will probably be my last car just like this
job will probably be my last job. The car
loan will be paid off in February. Looking
forward to being debt free again.
Well except for the debt that the politicians
are sticking me with because of everyone else
welching out on their 500k house and their
100k credit cards and their 50k car.
You think those fancy jets and tanks and and shit we use to kill brown people are free?
My welching out on $50K of CC debt is not going to affect your bottom line as much as that attack on Iran you keep praying for.
But I know, Bugs, if you were interested in sensibility you would've acquired some long ago.
Killing apostate mullahs, which rule Iran today, is required by the Koran.
Money well spent when it happens.
Why be angry at people who made bad bets? You should be angry at the government for bailing out the banks. If they didnt why would you even care if some asshole couldn't pay off his mortage and the property was declining by 50% in value. If all the banks just failed it would be a fire sale for anyone who did do the right thing and saved.
This guy is a deadbeat. He is the reason the rest of us proper citizens pay such high rates, because some wise assess decide to charge and default.
If I meet this person I will dutifully kick his ass and steal his kindle.
PS - tell him to get a job.
hey if bank fraud is the law of the moral land - then i say 'do as THEY do'.
guy taking his cue from the states , us government ,, debt is good . isn't that what the Keynesian's say only problem he hasn't got his printing press set up in the basement.
dead beat..... he was part of the spend culture .
see it, wanna it, get it. ..
name how many business's and others bailed out , by more debt. so this guy should just send in the cards , so no maus . let the chips fall. they cant get blood out of a turnip.
I wonder why Chase is being so agressive? It's unsecured. He can file a 7 before he pays them a dime. I would like to see someone take them on and file a countersuit with a call for significant damges based on fraud , intent to defaud , Self Enrichment etc et al. Then during discovery start asking for 1000 randomly picked mortgages and send it around to blogs all over the country to get pro bono appraisels to get a scientific "guess" on how much they are lying on their balance sheet.
Of course they would try to get a judge to stop it. It depends on the argument. One might be able to persuade a judge the information is necessary to show patterns and pratices of the culture at Chase. The judge who probably wants to buy FAZ real bad just might agree. Really, they don't get paid shit and they are about to hear a case with guys in $5,000 suits telling him why Dimon is entitled to this guy's first born male child, as the US is on the hook for billions of JP M debt. I don't think they would do well in court these days.
He might feel some sympathy for the defendant.
But seriously, if you find yourself on the reciving end of one of those babies, don't ignore it. Chances of getting it dismissed out of hand go up exponentially if you show up with years and years of payments and total up the finance charges and fees and tell them your broke.
He may find he paid them off three times already.
Anybody who has cards with Jp Morgan should get rid of them. They will fuck your eyes out and laugh at you over the phone at the first hint of trouble in your life.
Of course you could hang onto them and charge $10 every so often and then when you see the market finally tip over, take a large cash advance to short JPM so when they call for money , more because they just enjoy making people miserable, just say "Hey, I'd love to pay you but my liquidity is a little soft right now. I shorted the shit out of your stock on that big cash advance, I'm getting rich as hell but I 'm waiting till the tax year to end before taking profits. So you'll just have to wait. Hey I want to pay you fucks for helping me get rich, but just not now. Kapicsh? Then laugh and hang up. It sure would feel good eh?
You realize, I'm sure that you are talking to some poor smuck in India who is being taken advantage of as much as you are?
Not really. Debt collection is one of the last true american institutions.
+10
Same goes for C and BofA
i bet dollars to donuts if any in this position had gold coins he would not be spouting nonsense about you can't eat gold lol
he would just softly go around selling the gold for food, necessities.
But you cant eat gold yammer yammer
Both the lender and the borrower need to absorb the losses in some way. It was the socilization of the debts that is what should be griped about. We're now a banana republic without bananas as George Washington's blog guy said.
Dangnit! What part of this don't you get?
The lender doesn't owe the borrower sh**, the borrower owes the lender! Social acceptance of the "I deserve a bailout" attitude just because I made a sh**y decision on a contract shouldn't fly farther than the turd it is.
Until these principles, upon which contract law was founded, are enforced, I can see no hope for the Americas. A land without principles is a barren land, for certain.
Come on, Jamie, we know it's you. Give it up. You're broke. Go down like a good captain of industry, right down with your sinking ship.
There has been too much violence, too much pain.
None here are without sin.
But I have an honorable compromise:
Just walk away. Excuse the interest, the late fees, the entire balance. Leave the debt behind and I'll spare your lives.
Just walk away. We'll give you safe passage to the Hamptons.
Just walk away. And there will be an end to the horror.
I await your answer. You have one full day to decide.
I am Chumbawamba.
Do you realize the only lawful contracts are contracts signed between two people? Currently their are no lawful contracts made because their is no consideration. Your signature is what actually creates a loan. The money is then lent by the bank through booking keeping or ledgering. The reason your signature works is because you are essentially creating a promissory note, which is exactly what the federal reserve note is, only the latter is a promissory note from the federal reserve. So the bank then uses your debt instrument or "promissory note" to create the money by simply typing it in or turning it into the fed to trade for greenbacks.
I'm going to explain this clearly so you don't get confused. A bank doesn't give you anything. A credit card is nothing. It's simply permision to have people serve you with goods and services. If it's cash than it's simply trading your service for another persons service. But credit cards violtate that tennant. It's trading a promise of future service for service right now.
The wicked sick twisted part of it is the banks. With the bank in the middle of all these transactions it is reponsible for saying who is worthy of being served and who isn't. And it's trying to say we'll let other people serve you if you serve back at a much harder rate depending on the interest rate to us. In a full employment 50 hour work week environment is that even making any sense to anyone? Another mathematical and logical nonsense lie from the banking establishment. It's removal of people valuating each other and reaching harmonious agreement on prices and valuation because the bank ultimately deteremines all prices and values based on who they give to and what they buy with it. This goes to create a middle class and upper class system only because don't believe for a second anyone in the upper class that claims wealth pays cash for anything. They borrow thier freaking ass off. Houses become priced what banks will loan on them. People who buy stupid crap are given the most credit and it goes to spring up the things that society as a whole does not need but just what a percentage of the society deems necessary.
You can complain all you want about people defaulting. I didn't screw the banks out of 100k, i've probably only spent 200k in my entire lifetime. But for every single person that did screw the banks out of 10 or 20 or 30 k it's NOTHING. NOTHING. That's a tank of gas to fly your friends out the super bowl for one ceo. They burn this crap up faster than you can imagine. I mean have you guys never wondered why california has all that star power and hollywood crap and it's crawling with drug dealers and party girls and pressure. Even the ones graced with all the goodies have a malicious type of tax collector out there waiting to take it all away. Now maybe people understand why the CIA spends so much time building and grooming and mainting drug lord governments all over the world.
Money and the banks are our god. They act in all the ways and activities that what we think of as god acts in. The good lord giveth and the good lord taketh away. Sometimes they take it away (slavery) and then make you pay to get it back (civil rights movement 1960's). It's the perfect scam. You can make people support things that they don't support from a moral or ethical or even a intellectual standpoint. All you gotta do is get in between all the giving and all the taking and just twist it and distort it and make it suit your needs with a bit left over for the participants to think that it's got something to do with them.
There's no such thing as contract law or principles or anything remotely resembling that under this system. It's all bullcrap. I mean come on. The banks collect 1.5 billion dollars for haiti and you got what 80,000 people living in tent cities for 3 months. That's the best that can be done? Really?
The delusion that when a bank gives you money and it means anything is the hardest delusion to shake. A rich man can hand a homeless person 500 grand and it means NOTHING. If that man buys a house the people who built it gave him something, if he buys a car the people who built it gave him something. But the rich guy wants to take all the credit. All money is in our system is permission to serve, permission to do, permission to act, permission to fulfill need or want.
Stick to contract law if you want and let people buy 52" plasma screens for 3k that die in 3 years yet take 7 years to pay off and cost 7k in the end. It's all a scam. A permission scam with rediculous consequences and terms that only operate because of monopoly of perception.
It's going to take a bit to let all of that sink in.
Are you saying I should go out and get as many credit cards as possible, take as many cash advances as possible, lie about what I did with the cash (say that I have a drug problem or something) and buy gold instead, hide the gold, declare bankruptcy and slowly draw from my PM savings when I need it?
If you have that much heroic self-discipline, yes!
But most will turn alcoholic somewhere along the way.
Sounds like a banker, well into a successful career.
Ya he does sound suspiciously like JP Morgan himself. Or Mr. Firestone or Rockefeller.
Right.
And some day when you wake up and realize that the Cops and the Robbers are in cahoots and We The People are the fall guy for their little game, then maybe you will realize that contract law doesn't mean shit to the rich and well-connected.
When the law will not protect you, then you must protect yourself.
I am JackAz
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King. Name one principle that still exists in what used to be a country. Come on, just one. How about just a little bitty one. Oh, and please define justice.
"socilization of the debts that is what should be griped about"
not necessarily - its only that you didnt get value for your taxpayer dollar. Now, if the government were to NATIONALISE each and every bank that it bailed out - including the Federal Reserve (and make that filthy private enterprise owned by the people) without compensation to the shareholders - then you mightnt have so much to gripe about'
'but nationalised companies arent efficient' ppthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the only thing the unfettered free market has proven to be efficient at is collapsing the world economy through such a massive and unprecedented transfer of wealth that there is no longer a middle class to drive the consumer economy
Hey QuantTrader - Not very nice. This type of situation is not at all unusual these days. It doesn't take much - a bout of unemployment, a bad illness, divorce, etc. for one to end up in debt over one's head. This country use dto have a tradition of bankruptcy which would allow one to start over. But now we have debt peonage. This guy is not a deadbeat - I'm sure he would be paying his debt if he could afford to.
He
He
A job like Blankfein's or Dimon's or his minions? It is usury, shit for brains. Kudos to him.
Bottom line is the rule of law. It does not apply to the elites like Fuld(I will gladly kick his ass), so what is your point?
You are probably correct. The guy is probably a deadbeat.
But I see his behavior as more of a symptom of the problem than the problem.
I suspect that most people here see the massive fraud that has infected our financial systems. You would not be on this web site if you had not woken up to the massive frauds being perpetrated on us. And I suspect that individually, none of us know how to effect change that will change that.
We all know what we want; a financial system that is boring, reliable, dependable, honest, and most of all supporting our way of life, not the reverse, us supporting the "Financial Sectors" way of life.
Finance should exist solely to support us. To serve us. To be a tool in the betterment of our lives. Unfortunately, as it exists today, this is reversed and we are increasingly being coerced and manipulated into being debt slaves of the finance system.
I do not and cannot agree with this guys solution. Because, it is not a solution. He's just taking advantage of the situation. Inevitability, where we are heading will lead to the breakdown of our monetary systems. And when they do, he will still be a deadbeat, looking for a way to cheat and scam his way through. Dismiss him as insignificant. People like him will always exist. I have to deal with lowlifes like him every day. After the collapse, I'll still have to deal with lowlifes like him. So will most of you.
It's what happens afterwords that is important. How do we recover? That is the central issue, in my opinion.
It's rapidly coming to the point that either the financial oligarchs win and we become their debt slaves or we somehow manage to fix the failures in our financial systems.
I don't have the solutions that I think we need. Do you?
OH, I have lots of Ideas. But that doesn't translate into effective action across society. Unfortunately, I am not and never will be an effective politician (every time I write that word I have to spell check it because I invariably write pollution).
Britain now has a third party. Perhaps its time for your country (and mine, Canadian) to look to the alternatives. To look outside the "Box".
you wish bitch !!!!!!!!!!
No comment on the guy in question, only a comment to everyone being in the "same" risk pool for a loan. I do not agree whatsoever. I think THIS IS EXACTLY what banks want us to think about their relationship to us. That if they make bad loans based on easy money, WE are responsible for the 35% interest rates against even the good risk pools because of the bad stories of lack of repayment. This is a fallacy. This is wrong. This is what they want you to think so they may continue their oligopolistic and control interest rates on everyone, including the good risks. Reconsider.
Moreover, this theory of blame the borrower is EXACTLY what the banks trotted out immediately after the mortgage crisis. It was a massive PR campaign that was fought tooth and nail by truthtellers like Elizabeth Warren. It is the prime argument they make. They make BAD loans, they securitize them or not, doesn't matter, still making money. They do not get more efficient in learning about the differences between good credit risks and poor ones, because they don't need to. That kind of competitiveness is not compulsory in the system. This is the ENTIRE PROBLEM. This man has all that debt because of Alan Greenspan, the federal reserve system and himself. But, we cannot engineer a solution based on him, but we can with the Federal reserve banking system.
No, he's not the reason the rates are high.
The reasons rates are high are market structure, the absence of usuary laws and the Interstate Commerce Clause.
Take personal responsibility in your use of credit. If you do not carry a balance, you pay no interest. Live within your means, not off the debt some vampiric lender will charge you interest on if you give them the chance.
Starve the Banking Beast. Pay off your cards and don't carry a balance. Force them to lower rates by not paying them usurious rent.
Quit being a sheep bleating about poor me, its his fault.
Frak that. Talk to a bankruptcy lawyer and legally discharge this shit. The look back period is less than 2 years unless something suspicious pops up. Don't use the cards for a while and do a Ch7. That's your bailout.
and by the way, with the number of bankruptcies these days, make no mistake. People get it AND they are taking their money back by in effect, cancelling their debt via Ch 7. This as a tool for moral outrage against the banks and what our government did is all we have left.
Yes when the real U6 number is sitting in the mid 20s the Get a Job line isn't really realistic these days now.
In 2006 when I put my resume online I got 30 phone calls, never once had to submit my resume to a company, they looked for me. In 2010, I send out 3-4 resumes a day and have a good month when I get a call back.
My qualifications have increased since 2006. So fuck the Get a Job line.
Yes when the real U6 number is sitting in the mid 20s the Get a Job line isn't really realistic these days now.
In 2006 when I put my resume online I got 30 phone calls, never once had to submit my resume to a company, they looked for me. In 2010, I send out 3-4 resumes a day and have a good month when I get a call back.
My qualifications have increased since 2006. So fuck the Get a Job line.
** Edited for Content **
This guy better get a lawyer, it costs $500 bucks or so to defend with an attorney plus a contingency fee. All he needed to do was ask for debt validation and all this would have been avoided. Personally, I am current on all my debts, car and home thank you very much. If he knew he was going to default why the hell did s/he not read up on it before hand? From what I know Zwicker is an asshole, but an attorney can beat them, usually. I own debt consolidation websites, hence my knowledge on the issue and yes, you can make a lot of money from them. Oh, and I buy PM's with... CASH, among other investments.
I will try to remember your alias, and mentally match it with your line, as a different and hopefully useful perspective on economic and personal finance issues. Thanks also for including your position on PMs.
Please consider an avatar that would help us relate your comments to your industry. Maybe something like this:
http://debt-consolidation-debt-relief.com/debt-consolidation-funny-picture.gif
Today, at my business, I received a solicitation with a "pre-approved" credit card. It was atypical in that the issuer appeared to be our CC processor, SunTrust, but no SunTrust logo. The sales pitch is that I can borrow against the future purchases of our customers that buy on credit, which we process through the CC machine. I guess it is real-time factoring for small businesses; maybe payday loans for millionaires is a better description. No mention anywhere on rates or fees. Call for details.
I'd be extremely interested in getting the phone number for that offer.
My cards within 2 months of being paid off.
My SL is consolidated at 2.75 (will be 1.75 with 5 yrs of no missed payments). When rates blow I'll be sitting pretty - as pretty as one can get with a student loan.
I rent and have a monthly rent payment that is 20% of my take home pay.
Rest is going into defensive "investments" - precious metals, PM stocks, cash, lead, non- perishable food.
Couldn't you just create a SPE and then repo the debt off to the SPE and come up clean? Works for some people I know.
Well played.
Perhaps the IMF could loan him some more money.
I doubt he could handle the 'austerity measures', unless he's already bought a truckload of hand lotion
1. Combine all your loans into a CDO.
2. Get Goldman to sell it to their best customers.
3. Purchase a CDS against it.
4. Default.
5. Profit!!!!1!
+10
If it is good for the goose.....
And I thought I was bad: 22k CC + 17k student loan = 39k outstanding. However, I am better off than I was a couple of years ago. Vehicle is paid in full and two CCs are gone. Working on the remaining two CCs. Should be debt free within five years. :)
Whoever sent this email in, please explain why you found it so necessary to rack up this large amount of debt and now refuse to pay it back.
SOo, 40 to 1 leverage and rule over FASB makes it ok for GS and JPM to bet the ranch but not us right? Good logic. Go to the back of the class dumb ass.
There used to be a saying, "two wrongs don't make a right." Maybe it's out of date...
For now, it is. But it'll come back in style as soon as the system resets.
Desperate times call for desperate measures: DEFAULT.
Debtors Revolt!
I am Chumbawamba.
I don't even think its debt revolt. Its not like you ever borrowed anything that was anything other than paper. Chumba I wouldn't feel bad at all for going bad on paper debts, its not like you borrowed silver or gold and didn't pay it back.
As I have tried to explain (not like I owe you people an explanation :) is that I did not go into this intending to commit fraud.
Look, I can imagine most of you reading this were around when the bailouts were rammed through Congress and straight up our collective asses back in the Fall of 2008. I remember that vividly because the day that bailout package passed was the day the blinders came off finally and fully for me. It was the day I realized that all the "wackos" and "fringe economists" I was reading were right: we did not live in a country under the rule of law, but rather a country that was now of/by/for the bankers.
It's only been roughly 18 months, and oh how soon some of you forget.
Where is the fucking outrage?
My outrage manifested itself in the only logical way possible: revolt. It was obvious to me, with absolute perfect clarity, that this country was finished, that our institutions were all fraudulent and irrelevant, and it made no sense whatsoever to continue to pay patronage to a diseased and dying system that serves only to loot everything I've worked for and everything my children will ever work for, with a veneer of legality hastily applied to get everyone to bend over willingly.
Sorry, I chose intelligence.
I am Chumbawamba.
I agree chumba, I know exactly what you are talking about. My father talked to me about gold and common law for a couple years before all the bank bailouts happend but once it did my blinders came off too. And I realized my father was right, well at least about gold and common law.
I was just sayin it isn't really debt revolt because in all honesty paper assets are meaningless. They are just promissory notes with no real value. So imho you don't really owe anything, at least not as would be argued in a common law court.
I agree, Chumbawamba. The epiphany for me was July 2008 when Congress passed the $800b bailout for Fannie & Freddie in spite of the fact thattheir constituents were against the bailout by 300:1.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."
The bankers own the government.
"..that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
The bankers own the government and bend it to their will.
"That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
We do not give our consent to bailing out the thieves and punishing the people.
"That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."
We have tried the legal way of fighting back: - write, call, email and talk to your Representative. That has proven to be an exercise in futility. They leave us no choice.
When the legal pathway is blocked, then you have to find another pathway.
Be thankful that Chumbawamba has chosen a non-violent response to opression. It's time to read up on Gandhi and Martin Luther King.
I am JackAz
OK, its official. You are now on my MENTOR list right next ot Andy Jackson and David Hackworth.
There used to be a saying, "two wrongs don't make a right." Maybe it's out of date...
Yes you are right, so right one of those wrongs and stop supporting a corrupt system that works against its citizens.
That's a great saying if you won't to do something wrong but not live with the other person responding in kind. You take the high road, i'll take the low road and i'll be in Scotland before you.
** Edited for Content **
Why, to buy precious metals of course. Would you rather have credit cards with $100K of credit available, or $100K worth of gold and silver hidden somewhere as you head off to bankruptcy court?
Makes perfect sense.
The squid has managed to make theft amoral whether they do it or john doe does it. As long as you don't use physical force. That would reduce it to a common stickup job.
Theft has always been imoral.
It's just that immorality is now (once again?) protected by law.
Wait, didn't the people reject this, once upon a time?
Nah, wait till JPM writes in and gives us the true value of the assets on their balance sheet. Big guy goes first. If they are off by 20%, they are bankrupt.
$0 on credit cards but I did loan myself 50% of my 401K back in November of 2007. Paying that off with interest to myself over 6 years.
I have a credit score of over 800 and my Credit Union still insists I have a $500 credit limit backed by $500 in my savings account. I know it's an oversight on the banks behalf but I don't feel like making an issue out of it.
silver star on the forehead... you cant eat a credit score over 800 get gold
No revolving debt here, I refuse to feed the sharks. Two 10 year old cars, which I garage when not in use (they still look new), and will easily get another 5 years out of them...
PM positions were purchased with cash
Current with taxes, don't have the time or energy to fuck with the tax man...
This is Goldman Sachs' fault. They have a secret mind control device that makes people turn into dead-beats so that competitors' loans aren't serviced. Goldman Sachs is the enemy of piety, pity, Germany, God, and puppies.
The poor victim I just read about. So sad.
Ah how about no credit card debt, and my student loans are more then offset by my position in PMs. I have no interest in taking on credit card debt, it's only yummy fixed rate debt for this guy. I figure if PM's crash then I will still be about to make dollars and paying my comparatively small student loans (for law school anyway). Or if there is a currency collapse my PM's will cover my student loan debt and leave me a little something left over. Bought a new car when started school, and paid cash. Okay put it on a credit card for points then wrote a check to my credit card provider :)
Don't blame the guy for dancing with the devil, just not my style. As to him not being "patriotic", they banks knew the risks when they lent to him. The world is a tough place, get a god damn helmet!
Shameful,
I had $45,000 in student debt. I took three credit cards and paid off chunks of the loans at 1.99 and 2.99%. Made sure I paid them on time like religion. Point is, while I am debt free, if I had lost my job, it would be the credit cards, and not the nondischargeable student loan that I would have defaulted on. My student loans were at 9% so I made the right move. Later, I finished paying off my mortgage the same way, secured the house, put the balance on the credit card and paid on time.
Poof, debt free.
I'll probably be in that ballpark if I take the loans next year and I probably will, at least the subsidized ones. I had no debt going into law school, budgeted like a monk and only took the subsidized loans the first year. I took the subsidized and the unsubsidized Stafford loans this year as per my budget plan. Working has allowed me to rebuild my war chest. And at the moment most of my debt is being carried interest free as long as I'm in school. I'm tempted to go back to school after this on my employer's dime and further stretch out the interest free part of the loans. Will depend on the state of the world. I could not take out anymore loans, and I could pay off my loans now but I see having my PMs as a hedge against currency collapse. 50k in debt locked in at 6.8% is not going to break me. For job security not super worried. We are nightmarishly understaffed. We should have 5 devs and a DBA...but there is only me. We had a larger staff, but they all quit pretty much at the same time. Didn't like the work conditions, which have only gotten worse since now it's only me.
good thinking. this is a useful site.
Do you mean to tell me people still have debts?
Really?
yep like the 500,000 tab all of our bodies from the federal gum shoes ..
A hundred grand dump is peanuts. Here in CA, people are dumping a $500k first with a couple hundred on the second HELOC. Credit cards have too many limitations.
It's kind of like the Paulson/Goldman scam. The peeps were deliberately taking the other side of the trade knowing a big fail was on the way.
I think that is "Perp" not "Peep" - originally police slang for what we might call "Squilty" banksters, unless you are talking about Yellow Marshmellow critters - who are mostly on the receiving end of strange experiments, like the sheeple.
switched eeveryone to the lowest rate chase card, and now paying chase off...to the penny with the minimum payment per month.
not as good as not paying, but .....like a chinese water torture.
my question: are these receivables marked to FASB 166 - "100 cents on the dollar" mark to model - on balance sheets of theses banks.... anyone?
Whenever collection isnt assured it can go to the AFDA - allowance for doubtful accounts. This is how retails shops do it, though im sure financial institutions have several variances of that.
On the yearly statements however if the collection agency came up with nothing itll go to Bad Debt Expense.
A/R are always (well if you want to get picky, almost always) marked at full value, the AFDA compensates for the (possible) losses.
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I know of some 20 somethings that had good credit scores throughout their late teens and were give over 80k credit limits right before the credit crisis. Fast forward some time...limits went down, rates shot wayyy up and now they can't find jobs and so they're walking away...oh the irony! lol
I got slightly over $100K in "pre-approved" credit card solicitations in Q1. I decided to keep track because I simply couldn't believe the plastic bonanza was starting up again.
No revolving balances here for decades.
Ditto.....when you are on the Frequent NonFlyer list, they pester the shit out of you. Banks are horny to lend to people who don't ask and don't want it. They want to spike the performing ratios which, if they can put a dent in it, will look good for the next round of bonuses.
There's actually a number you can call to stop that shit... Don't know it off the top of my head, but I'm sure google can help you.
I used to get 10+ credit card offers a week, that all went straight in the trash (recycled at least..). Once I called whatever this line was they stopped dead a few weeks later.
@theReaderNotMakingPayments
from: reader with $$ 0.00 CC balance.
fuck you asshole!
let me explain - obviously, you had some decent income in order to get approved for such high credit limits, necessary to run up such totals.
in that case, you could have also afforded proper levels of medical insurance, which is the only reason I would "forgive" you fucking up your CC debts, that I am now paying via a myriad of indirect costs to the economy.
i appologize if i missed some other valiant reason to do this to the rest of us!
You may address your outrage to Mr. Chumbawumba.
Every regular reader here knows that Chumba has, on numerous occasions, stated that he has run up his credit card, purchased PM's and has every intention of defaulting. I believe he has even mentioned the $100K amount.
Stand up and be counted, Chumba! We all know how proud you are of yourself.
Not judging, mind you; just wondering why the anonymity when you've been so vocal about this in the past?
The OP was not expecting the lawsuit from Chase. He may be a bit spooked about bragging of his exploits over the internet for interested parties to see.
Spot on. Chase can monitor these anomymous posts and then tie it the 10 to 15 fucking thousand lawsuits they're pursuing and then put 2+15,000 together and chumbas busted. FYI the OP made no fucking mention of not expecting the lawsuit...He said they were more aggressive than the others.Back of the class Ben the Bald.Yer fucking brain is truont.
I'm too new here to have seen him brag about it myself. I've been cracking up thinking about it. Not only does he need to resort to fraud for a lousy $100k, but he incriminates himself in the crime. He better bust his balls to repay that, or he's going to be in the newest edition of America's Stupidest Criminals.
http://www.amazon.com/Americas-Dumbest-Criminals-Fumbling-Ridiculous/dp/1558533729/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_a
You guys are idiots. HELLO? It's called UNSECURED credit card debt.
Not sure how uncovering my identity and tying it to my defaulted accounts is going to help any bank collect from me. Obviously this was spoken by someone very ignorant of laws pertaining to credit card and the legal system itself.
The reason I am so vocal about my situation is because I was hoping to give courage to others to do the same. Sometimes I feel like I'm fighting this battle alone, but I operate under the assumption that, as usual, I'm simply way ahead of the curve, at the tip of the spear, and there's a whole lot of blade right behind me, plunging deep into the heart of the Banksters.
Those who stood by or cowered will not be remembered fondly by history.
I chose to fight.
I am Chumbawamba.