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Open Thread: This Reader Is Not Making Any Payments On Just Under $100,000 Of Credit Card Bills, Are You?
From the mailbag:
Brief update on my lenders' attempts to collect credit card debt. Stopped making all payments over a year ago.
BANK OF AMERICA $35,000
CHASE BANK $16,000
CITIBANK $30,000
DISCOVER $10,000Chase Bank has been singularly aggressive, in January filing civil suit represented by Zwicker & Assoc. As to the others, collection company mailings and phone calls have mostly ended, leaving the impression that they are following the Chase case. Not at all surprising, but hopefully informative. Perhaps time for another solicitation of related anecdotes?
Update from the reader:
I failed to indicate that this accumulated over 8 years of underemployment, failed business ventures and living expenses. No vacations, no big toys. Clothes are full of holes. Basically a professional trying to sustain temporarily, based upon excellent credit history and 0% offers, a standard of living that I expected to be able to fully afford again and intended to pay down the debt. Never imagined conditions would not turn around but get so much worse. I can understand the angry posts but this is not a case of deadbeat self-indulgence at others expense.
So, dear readers, which is it? Are you all dutifully filing taxes, paying off your bills, sending in your monthly mortgage checks and prefunding Goldman's now-quarterly bonus payments? Or have you maxed out your last remaining credit card to buy Kindles (that's a given) and bars of silver? Let us know.
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I never intended it to be easy. It's a moral stance, and one I'm willing to stick to.
Answer to that problem?
Cash advance.
Buy gold/silver, survival geat.
Rinse repeat.
If one were so inclined.
Quite plainly, you're an idiot.
When you have actual statistics of incarcerations due to credit card fraud based on intentional default then post that information.
In the meantime, I won't be waiting.
I am Chumbawamba.
Yes, it should be stunning to you. You think its okay to fabricate the money in the first place by agreeing to the loan.
Maybe so. But they are hoping there are more who think like you than those who think like the rest of us.
No more credit cards here, chase hosed me two times on interest for supposed electronic "late payment" so I called and canceled. I always pay in full so in the end they'll be stuck with the people who don't pay at all, those who do will be running on cash and debit cards only. I don't need their card bad enough to warrant the abuse.
This is a tough scenario to rationalize. while I sympathize with those who see the banks as having unduly profited at tax payer expense I don't see a reason to walk away from a debt that I owe, and certainly one would be able to argue that there's some significant 'stuff' involved in the outstanding balance listed above.
OTOH I have no sympathy for big banks who derived a backstop from the Fed when they should have gone bankrupt. They made their bed, now they have to lie in it as I always say.
If you can't pay that's one thing but to choose not to pay when in fact you can just to tweak the bank is something else. I'm not judging, just saying I couldn't do it and am thankful that I don't need to. It's not because I'm rich either, far from it, but because I saw others wracking up huge debt and never put myself in that position.
Will someone tell me how XRT went up over 1% today? It was weaker than the market intraday and then got shot out of a cannon!! How? The top ten holding were net even today! Retail stocks are higher than they were at SPX 1550. Ideas?
In my fantasy life I would do the same, but they are paid off every month. Cancelled Discover though...
Get a second telephone line, even one of those cheapie ones (vonage). Have a cheerful message. Use that number for all the creditor calls and enjoy a peaceful life.
When the arbitration notices show up, they will invariably forget to recite the chain of assigment of the credit card file. It is kind of like the failure of mortgage assignees to have a clear chain of title to the note that you hear so much about. Same deal. Be ready for it, because the best part is - wait for it - the credit card agreement specifies that the arbitration result is final and appealable. If they file, set up the action, and then can't prove they own the debt (the entity filing, be sure to look at that carefully), the decision wil be "sorry," and there is no appeal. They can't even send you a 1099.
Laugh all
Couldn't
Get a second telephone line, even one of those cheapie ones (vonage). Have a cheerful message. Use that number for all the creditor calls and enjoy a peaceful life.
When the arbitration notices show up, they will invariably forget to recite the chain of assigment of the credit card file. It is kind of like the failure of mortgage assignees to have a clear chain of title to the note that you hear so much about. Same deal. Be ready for it, because the best part is - wait for it - the credit card agreement specifies that the arbitration result is final and appealable. If they file, set up the action, and then can't prove they own the debt (the entity filing, be sure to look at that carefully), the decision wil be "sorry," and there is no appeal. They can't even send you a 1099.
Laugh all the
wait
Get a second telephone line, even one of those cheapie ones (vonage). Have a cheerful message. Use that number for all the creditor calls and enjoy a peaceful life.
When the arbitration notices show up, they will invariably forget to recite the chain of assigment of the credit card file. It is kind of like the failure of mortgage assignees to have a clear chain of title to the note that you hear so much about. Same deal. Be ready for it, because the best part is - wait for it - the credit card agreement specifies that the arbitration result is final and appealable. If they file, set up the action, and then can't prove they own the debt (the entity filing, be sure to look at that carefully), the decision wil be "sorry," and there is no appeal. They can't even send you a 1099.
Laugh all the way/
two
Get a second telephone line, even one of those cheapie ones (vonage). Have a cheerful message. Use that number for all the creditor calls and enjoy a peaceful life.
When the arbitration notices show up, they will invariably forget to recite the chain of assigment of the credit card file. It is kind of like the failure of mortgage assignees to have a clear chain of title to the note that you hear so much about. Same deal. Be ready for it, because the best part is - wait for it - the credit card agreement specifies that the arbitration result is final and appealable. If they file, set up the action, and then can't prove they own the debt (the entity filing, be sure to look at that carefully), the decision wil be "sorry," and there is no appeal. They can't even send you a 1099.
Laugh all the way/.
minutes!
Get a second telephone line, even one of those cheapie ones (vonage). Have a cheerful message. Use that number for all the creditor calls and enjoy a peaceful life.
When the arbitration notices show up, they will invariably forget to recite the chain of assigment of the credit card file. It is kind of like the failure of mortgage assignees to have a clear chain of title to the note that you hear so much about. Same deal. Be ready for it, because the best part is - wait for it - the credit card agreement specifies that the arbitration result is final and appealable. If they file, set up the action, and then can't prove they own the debt (the entity filing, be sure to look at that carefully), the decision wil be "sorry," and there is no appeal. They can't even send you a 1099.
Laugh all the way.
Christ, I am short a word...
Get a second telephone line, even one of those cheapie ones (vonage). Have a cheerful message. Use that number for all the creditor calls and enjoy a peaceful life.
When the arbitration notices show up, they will invariably forget to recite the chain of assigment of the credit card file. It is kind of like the failure of mortgage assignees to have a clear chain of title to the note that you hear so much about. Same deal. Be ready for it, because the best part is - wait for it - the credit card agreement specifies that the arbitration result is final and appealable. If they file, set up the action, and then can't prove they own the debt (the entity filing, be sure to look at that carefully), the decision wil be "sorry," and there is no appeal. They can't even send you a 1099.
Laugh all the way.
Alright Ned, how do you explain this?
I am giving you two minutes before I respond to all you MP's, thus sealing your fate forever!
WTF???!???!?
Are you triple posting on purpose?
Yes I am paying my mortgage, and bills, and looking to pay as little taxes as I can. I am upside down on my house but I entered a contract.
Am I the last sucker?
Yes.
If it maximizes your own pecuniary position to default on the contract, DO SO.
That is exactly what your LENDER would do.
Does ANYONE HERE not understand that IN THE CONTRACT for all your precious mortgages and credit cards, it gives the lender the EXPLICIT right to CALL THE LOAN? They can serve you with notice to pay in full right now at pretty much ANY point.
They don't give a fuck if you lost your job or your kid got sick. Fuck you, PAY ME.
I have NO idea why people think repaying debt is a moral obligation. It's not. We run around like lemmings afraid of a FICO score.
The only reason I do not do what the OP did is because of employment credit reports, yet ANOTHER racket to force people to be debt serfs.
Thank you for the clear response. I do not care about FICO, and no CC debt. If no one has honor contracts...shizz, this will get ugly. Really ugly.
A mortgage is a collateralized instrument. You don't pay, they get the house. Well, in real life anyway. There is not a morality clause in any mortgage or note. You are haunted by a classic social theory, not reality. Break free. Do some reading on the matter and you'll find that it's not a rationalization to stop paying on a mortgage that is onerous due to the mis-deeds of the Banksters. Just try to stay clear-eyed in the process.
the system will pump you full of 'buyer beware' shit so that you feel powerless when you get ripped off. I hope every American citizen makes the banks understand that when you have so little respect and regard for social fabric, its BORROWER beware, motherfuckers
We are chumps not suckers.
I have a couple of friends who haven't made a mortgage payment in over a year, and one (a builder) stopped paying in 2007. They are all still in their houses. One of them even has a vacation home (no payments on that either) which they still use once and awhile.
When the banks finally foreclose, they sell the homes for half the current market price (which is half the peak 2006 prices), so a $400K house from 2006 can be had for $100-150K. The banks are screwing up the real estate market forever! The banksters dump houses, then tell people next door that their houses can't be refied because they aren't worth enough. So those people say fuck it and stop paying. Fuck the banks, Fannie, Freddie, FHA and of course the FED.
If they want all these soon to be worthless homes, they can come and get them. I hope the Federal government becomes the world's largest landlord, then they can fix roofs, replace appliances, unclog toilets, etc... The real estate death spiral is alive and well in AZ.
The reality is we either can stoop low like the banks and just f%&k em like they do us, or we can take the high road and work to fix the broken system. (But I really, really, really want to take it low on those crooks!)
It looks like you're taking the chickenchit route, not the high road at all. Put up a fight, at least.
Remember all that talk before TBTF about "moral hazard" and the "unintended consequences" that spring from them? We're there.
I'm not a debt monkey at all. But I most definetely have a different attitude about so called contract law between creditor and debtor.
When the Chrysler and GM bondholders got the big screw from Uncle Sugar and the toss off from the Supreme Court ( Ginsburg ) on appeal, they changed the law and precedent right then and there. In my view, it was game on at that point < disclosure : positions in both >.
I won't advocate for those seeking relief, but there are two sets of rules working now. Individuals now seem to have the right to choose the set that works best for them, so flip a coin and go for it.
The Founders never envisioned two sets of contractual laws in the USA. Or any other laws, for that matter. You can bet your ass on that.
Bingo.
Well what does this mean?
Credit card debt is unsecured. The lender is at risk with no collateral.
The options are not many in terms of helping the balance sheet. Actually, at this point in time, doing nothing is probably the best from a true reporting of the financials. But, really the option to sue must produce a net gain in the end. Marking the loss makes proper sense when a company is solvent. So what we see is a strategy in place to extend until attractive.
Actually, is there a limitation on how long they can take to collect? Depends on the contract. I thought it was a year after default.
The approach to legal action must look at the persons ability to pay. Even if the loan is settled to a much lower principle, if the person has a track record or financial position were payment is not probable. Then It may be better to forgive the debt.
Interesting times.
Mark Beck
I've had one airline card for twenty years, pay it off in full each time. 40K credit limit, even though my average monthly is under 4K. I don't take cash advances nor do I use automated tellers. I've put three kids through college, never had a mortgage and own multiple properties. Inheriting a few million helped keep me on the right track. I'm the one that Obama and his Bankster/Wall Street owners have in the crosshairs.
good
Wow...that's an amazing and inspiring story for all of us.
You afforded putting kids through college on a few million unearned dollars. Awesome.
I, personally, am tearing up at your tale of perseverance against all odds.
Somebody had to say it...
+1
lol
trav
That was fuckin good. All the sad tales and here comes the poor millionare.
Paid off- but feel strangely empty.
LOL. That's because unless you're drowning in debt, you can't be truly alive.
(Wasn't that a Wells FArgo commercial?)
+10
You KNOW things are fucked when at age 60 plus I can't even get a Sears card, or one from Banan Republic, or any other kind. Why, because I've never had a penny in debt, own my house outright, my car, own 20 plus pounds of gold eagles and maples, some cash. Yet many broke people I know get offers for credit cards all the fucking time. Does this make sense? I am a fantastic credit risk. Net worth, including abode, just over seven figures. Yeah, I'm know, I'm relatively lucky, but I've been prudent. I say to all you out there who have mortgages and CC debt, don't pay it! Just Stop. Let's have a little revolution.
Yes, this is WHY you must participate in the game.
In order to get credit cards, you must show yopur a good RISK.
No matter how much Jack you have.
Like I said in a previous thread, FICO scores are not Credit Scores, their DEBT scores............Great FICO scores, a LOT of the time mean your in hock up to your Nads, it's how you have repaid them, that rates you, along with income stream.
People(buisness) want to see how you handle the monthly obligations, or your a no go.
You can get a Pre-Paid card, and work from that end, IF you really need or want to.
You sir, I assume, will end up in jail...for a long stint.
Charging up debt on CC's, and lines of credit, knowing your not going to even try to pay them back, is FRAUD.
This is where Chase will take you,in court...unless there are a lot more extinuating issue's you have not told us.
This is where some middle class (or what's left of it) unity would serve you well. Yeah, this minor fraudster might well end up in jail, as most 'little people' do when they step a fraction of an inch out of line, but I wonder what would happen if you ALL simultaneously decided to ignore the 'big magic show' and act accordingly? (IE Support those who fight fraud with fraud)
... just asking.
Regards
You sir, I assume, will end up in jail...for a long stint.
LOL. Then you better lock up half the states of California, Florida, and Nevada. And a few million others to boot.
Look around, dude. Seriously.
No debtors prison any more.
The can sue, get judgement, and garnish to a certain extent.
But that is all.
They are letting violent felons out of jail early around here (no money to house them). Do you really think they are going to go after someone for credit card fraud who may of lost his job, house, etc...? Get real.
Fraud? What the hell is that!?
It's pronnounced "bo-nus?"
(just ask Jamie and Lloyd)
Advice from John Wemmick: Great Expectations? Load up on "Portable Property".
Regards
I wish I had the balls to rack up $100K and then default. The only thing keeping me from doing it is (I'm ashamed to say) a question: what if the world doesn't blow up and it all just works itself out?
Oops.
No, unfortunately, SO many folks are in the same position, you would get another chance.
IF this (miraculously), for the sake of your argument turned out so.
The Banks, and all lenders will have your nuts in court......
If your an individual new laws went into efect prior to this fiasco, and there's NO WALK away's allowed any longer........
Only if the Gv't passed a new Law, would you get by with theft.
RE:"Only if the Gv't passed a new Law, would you get by with theft."
Actually, isn't that the problem here? That there has yet to be a law passed that prosecutes theft... as long as the alleged theft is on a grand enough scale.
But DO NOT steal a candy-bar three times and get caught the same: Your sentence for such 'crimes' can be a life of incarceration and ass-rape. Nice country you've got there... Don't you all have access to guns?
...Just askin'
A lot of this debt will die off with its owners as they grow old and die.No assets, so it will have to be written off...
Hunh? So it costs ,what?, 2k to go bankrupt? Then, like you say, suppose "All actually is Well and Nobody Blows Up" (yah right), and you can't get a loan for 7 years, big deal. OH WELL; It won't matter 'cause there'll be so many jobs and such a dearth of workers that employers will be desperately fighting to pay you more and get you a company credit card. There ya go! Problem solved. Its WIN WIN!
Regards
Today my dental hygenist said that she stopped making payments two months ago on $60K of CC debt. She said that she was angry that the bank(s?) kept increasing the interest rate, even though she has spent the last year whittling down her balances each and every month. She intends to file for BK.
how in the world do people get that much CC debt, so stupid.
how to lock up 100,000 debt
1) trip to disney land with kids 10,000
2) charge room makeover . 25,000
3) fix car new tires 3,500
4) vacation with wife 10,000
5) ski trip with gear 10,000
6) doctor bill broken legs pelvis ski trip 15,000
7) eating out for year twice a week 5000
8) misc garden stuff 1500
9) grocery bill at supermarket 20,000
10) looking sharp clothes 10,000
priceless lol get master card
Under current laws, you WILL be held responsible for the loss...........
Bankruptcy or not.
Only Corporate thugs, and business, get that DO OVER now.
I repeat: This is where some unity of action in the middle class would serve you well. Look, I know you can't always fight fire with fire, but massive fraud by a few with massive fraud at the hands of most, why not? They can't put everybody in jail, can they? FEMA camps, mb...Does Dick Cheney have some green in that too?
...Just askin'
HEADS UP idiots. if you default on your CC debt the company gives you at W-2 that counts all your defaulted debt as INCOME. now you got to deal with Geithner and the IRS doesn't give up so easily.
Geithner, eh? oooooo I shudder to think of it. Say, has he sold his house yet?
Regards
Hmm...maybe the IRS will finally figure out how to get blood out of a rock...
Nolsgrad, You are correct on this. At least technically you are. The rule is you can walk on a mortgage and not get hit with the income you refer to. But personal debt is treated differently. At least it can be. I have seen a bunch of people walk on CC. Not the big number in this piece (20-30K). These people did not get hit with the tax (it would be 1099 income).
So I am curious, If you know someone who got this tax notice I would like to know a bit more about. Maybe it would make for an interesting story. Why one guy gets screwed the other walks.
I post articles for ZH regularly. Have those that got this notice drop me a line.
bk
bkrasting@gmail.com
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1099c.pdf
Which is why you should BK 7 if it's a lot.
Nolsgrad, This is not quite accurate. A 1099 is issued if the creditor FORGIVES the debt. But what typically happens is that the creditors sells the receivable to a collection agency, which, will then attempt to collect via phone calls, letters, and then lawsuit. If the collection agency wins the lawsuit and obtains a judgement, depending on the state, it may be able to collect via garnishing wages (this is possible in NYS but not in Penn, for example). In NYS the holder of a judgement has up to 20 years to collect what is due (judgement amount PLUS interest @ 9% per annum, I think).
If someone does have their debt forgiven and is issued a 1099, then the amount forgiven is considered taxable income. However, there is an exception. If the debtor demonstrates to the IRS that he/she is insolvent, then no tax is due. One need not file for bankruptcy to demonstrate insolvency. The correct form along with a schedule which details liabilities exceeding assets works.
It seems from this thread that there are two approaches which make eminent sense given our situation, and a third where the real suckers lie. The two that work are the frugal, Dave Ramsey "debt free" route of building up lots of savings (preferably in PMs obv). Or the scorched earth "f-u" approach of the tipster in this thread. The real suckers are those who service their debts without paying them down; these are the debts rightly marked at 100 cents on the dollar and the ones so critical to feeding the beast. The first two approaches (I'm a debt-free guy myself) starve the beast and are the best ways to sock it to TBTF.
+1
+10
No debt and renting. Bought a 6 year old car for 9k in cash, but not cutting short on important maintenance (like brake fluid or timing belt replacement).
Switched everything banking from Citi to a local bank in December.
Still need a credit card as I travel a lot for work. Outside that I pay everything w/ debit card.
My savings are 25% in physical PM plus 60% in non-US$ assets.
Prepped as much as you can be in an apartment.
here is a little secret. put all your assets into an LLC with someone you can know and trust. making you the sole beneficiary. Then, max all the credit cards out get it in cash and load it into the llc. Then, disconnect phone and get a majic jack only. Tell the ASSHOLE BANKS TO COME GET AND GET IT WITH VASALINE!!!
Squid have made non-violent 'victimless' theft a national epidemic.
Didn't you just post the same thing? Or quite similar? Got any new ideas?
You ain't seen nothing yet.
"You're welcome." - Lloyd
Zeroman -
u b my "heroman"...
I'm apparently one of the suckers, up to date or ahead of schedule on just about everything. No real debt to speak of other than a quickly disappearing mortgage.
Its retarded to amass $100k in credit card debt. What are people thinking? Banks too to allow that to build up.
When I got out of school I was proud to get my Texaco card. A visa or mastercard was out of the question until I demonstrated I could pay my gas card off each month.
Gosh thanks for the insight. Are you on facebook? Can I follow you on twitter? MySpace?
I'd like to see exactly how often you can miss a point.
I know, I know: If you can't say anything nice...
No, I'm not on facebook nor do I tweet. Got better things to do. I'm solvent and retired at 58. think you'll be?
You must be old...The more CCs you have, the cooler you are...The banks would go to my school on weekly basis...
Everyone hates a sad professor.
No doubt, the consumer is out spending in force.
Buying wicker baskets, Tupperware, mattresses, motorcycles, snowmobiles, etc.
The buying frenzy is relentless.
There is a correlation between stock price and consumer spending? Is it that simple? What a fool I've been!
Whoever the reader is, Chapter 7 is the only cure. Eat it. Be done with it. Start over. What kind of person stops making payments then does nothing?
Freaking insanity.
Isn't that kinda like marking assets to some fictional number, rather than to the market price?
If so, I agree: "Freaking Insanity". Can you fight insanity with insanity, is my question.
Regards
Obviously, everyone is charging up vacations, and planning to stick BAC, JPM, C, etc. with the bill...
LOL....
7 Rental properties with our own place. The rents don't cover the morts/hoa/taxes but after deductions are pretty good. Figure it's a forced savings plan. Debt deflation would hurt quite a bit but seeing how Ben and Barry like to blow bubbles I'm less worried with each passing day. Buying Au and Ag on the side and storing a bit in cash for an eventual down payment on a house. Unfortunately I'm still paying all 8 mortgages. Too scared to not to. It's not a moral issue but trying to buy a house in a few years would not be ideal if one were to skip out on payments. This guys seems to be an extreme.
I got rid of my cc's years ago. No mortgage, rent. No car payment, old vehicle. Just paying taxes!
My parents were from the Depression generation. Dad, a cop after the war, told us to never buy anything you couldn't pay cash for. And that is what he did, saved a whole life time, 7 kids, and eventually bought a small house in a small country town to retire.
But our gerneration you couldn't buy a home without some part of it being a loan. You could survive without credit at some stage, unless you lived a frugal life I guess.
Up shot of Dad's advice is that I have always been very conservative financially. Learnt my first lesson after two years of working. Invested in blue chip mortgage debentures. The so called blue chip went arse up (and this wasn't even a recession). Lesson being - no such thing as a sure thing.
Got out of the last crash twenty years ago two weeks before hand because the market was going crazy upwards, which scared me, so I sold everything.
I was in banking at the time and saw the results of that crash, having to sell up a number of businesses. We had prime sea front land that we couldn't sell, no interest. The property market remained dead for a long time.
My wife and I have built and paid off our home, have no debts, have put all superannuaiton into cash management, have everything else in cash, except for 10% of it in gold and silver. Have a credit card, but always keep it in credit to avoid fees and use it for the convenience of paying monthly bills.
At my age there is no point in taking risk and better to protect what I have as there will be no chance to recreate it. I will still work for another 5-10 years.
We are not huge consumers, wife only likes to buy bargains and hates spending more than $50 even thought there is heaps there for her.
Being conservative means you will never be rich, but will never go broke. However if their is deflation, those with cash will get richer.
Or we could have hyperinflation, and those holding cash go broke.
I am debt free and if not financially independent then very close to it. I keep my business going as I'm unsure what the gov't will do next? Two kids in college, which i pay, so from tha tstand point I have an extraordinary repsonsibility. I have the cash for the education expenses, but I work and pay it out of after tax income.
Not spam, but - for some of the people struggling, I would read "Your Money or Your Life" by Joe Dominquez
I am debt free and if not financially independent then very close to it. I keep my business going as I'm unsure what the gov't will do next? Two kids in college, which i pay, so from tha tstand point I have an extraordinary repsonsibility. I have the cash for the education expenses, but I work and pay it out of after tax income.
Not spam, but - for some of the people struggling, I would read "Your Money or Your Life" by Joe Dominquez
Check out this FatWallet.com Thread:
Strategies for canceling business credit card debt - an A0R addendum=)
I can see how the guy can acquire so much credit card debt when the mail box used to be filled with offers to increase credit limits, or instant credit cards, just sign your name.
The banks are responsible. Where are their lending standards in giving these things out. Does any young local banker go through an application and determine ability to service a credit limit. Basic stuff.
I think the banks worked on percentages on the basis that credit card profits always go up. Sell this much credit, allow for this much bad debt and thus get this much great profit. Sell sell.
But the flaw in that is that the original percentage of bad debt was at a time when credit card applications were being properly assessed and banks had conservative lending criteria.
Glad to hear so many are debt free and happy, good for you. Meanwhile, fellow citizens are happily following Bwarney's advice and defaulting on helocs mortgages etc etc in order to fulfill their duy as patriotic american consumers. Watch out, apple to $300 soon and S&P 1300 before the mid term elections.
and oh, live in a "plex" property F&C - get some income, write-offs and expenses covered. I am way ahead of the trend on this - only owned SFRs as investments... sold all r.e. investments in 2004 to 2007. People living in McMansion will realize en masse that they are sitting in the bulk of their next worth. 4- to 12-plex properties, if you have the stomach for it, make alot of sense.. I'm talking selling the big home in the high-end area and moving to less expensive, "no State tax" locale.
Zero debt, Zero CC balance, 800 FICO. Plenty of PMs, hardware, etc...
But I support any non violent method to bring down the whole fraudulent, corrupt, rotted structure.
So I am seriously considering adopting that tactic.
The ballot box isn't working, calling and emailing my reps isn't working, financially supporting outside candidates isn't working, the justice system isn't working, maybe intentionally planted financial losses placed on the tracks will derail Wall Street's looting train bound for the debt camps.
default is precisely the way to destroy their grip...
Recently denied a mortgage by Chase after jumping through myriad hoops and being assured everything was "on track." Turned around and paid for the house in cash. Stupid squid. Best middle finger I ever gave. A little cash poor but sleeping well.
Not that anyone cares, but I will post the details of my *meaningful* life as well...
Chapter 7 bankruptcy about 7 years ago. Medical bills and not having a job due to the tough economy at the time. I ate hot dogs on bread & lived with a roommate -- far from wild spending.
Got a secured credit card. Eventually an unsecured one. Got a loan on a Honda-certified Civic and paid it off several years early. $0 debt. I carry <$10 cash. Use check & credit cards with rewards. One pays me $0.20 per transaction. https://www.firstfederalbanking.com/home/home Save as much as possible. Lake City bank used to pay 5% interest. Currently 3.5%. Better than 0% like most TBTF banks. https://www.lakecitybank.com/ Contribute the yearly max to my IRA (approx +20% return just on the tax benefits alone) and try to invest prudently. Also do the company stock (WMT) plan with a 15% match to the max they allow. I have no home. Gone without that 'luxury' for 3+ years. Not easy, but I want to get ahead and I'll do whatever it takes. I work, I save, I invest. That is the foundation of my daily life. Workout. Best shape of my life. Lost 9lbs last week. I enjoy shopping for Abercrombie-type outfits at places like Goodwill and Plato's Closet. I lead a humble life. But at the same time, I 'want for nothing.' I have everything I want/need. I love business/finance/investing. I think about it 24/7. Read and learn as much as I can. I love the stories and comments on Zero Hedge. I was going to buy a T-shirt to support them, but $45?!? I'm sorry, but that's a bit stiff. Make it $25, and you have a deal. Gotta demand value in all things in life.
But no precious metals?
You're walking into disaster.
I am Chumbawamba.
how can i put this....
fuck a banker...
gotta go now BOFA is calling again...
they apparently cant get enough me saying,
fuck a banker.....
Great job! See if you can open some more accounts and run up some more debt. I have credit cards but haven't ran them up yet. I will when I sense the system is about to collapse. Anything to crash this fraudulent system is great!
No debt at all, pay full Amex balance every month, have wife's spending on a leash, enough cash in bank to live in a third-world dump with a surfboard and reed shorts for about the next 20years, if chosen.
Don't care enough about it all not to say FUCK YOU to current society in the West, help others escape their debt and mental ailments. Big love to ZH members, big Fuck You to raping, robbing corporations and politicians.
Paying my bills, and my debt, which is minimal. I can live off of one paycheck a month and I do.
"I am an air conditioned gypsy, watch the police and the tax man mis me"
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee yeah
I have ~$150k in student loans between my wife and I. Paying the VERY minimum as inflation/repudiation is a few months away.
The next time the collections people call, tell them your lawyer said to ask for the name address and telephone number of the caller. They won't give it. So hang up.
Repeat this a few times and they will stop calling.
If they give you a numer, tell them for verification purposes you are going to hang up and call back...
Also set up a voice mail that says:
Hello, I am here right now but cannot pick up the phone... however, I can be reached at this numer when I am not in...
Use that annoying female robot voice on your Mac.
Har at me.
I have never had a balance on a CC for 24 years, excepting the one time that wife failed to make the payment on time.
I helped out a valued employee by hauling his ass out of his abyss of debt by negotiating a straight 50% off of his CC and paid it. He stiffed me too for my 20k.
Face it, some folks are bums. Stop the crying for the guy with USD91,000 in CC debt. Perhaps he is not cut out to be his own boss. Most people aren't.
I had a friend out of college do this...he took 25,000 in cash advances and we went to Atlantic city...he said he was going to either win big or go home broke and file for bk....I have no idea how he got a 25K limit when he was making only 21K but anyway. Goes to the blackkjack tables and in one hour i come back and he's sitting at an empty table and says "youre not going to believe this". Believe what? I said. I looked at the dealer who shrugged and them him, he said he doubled his money and at one point had 4 blackjacks in a row. He took the money and put 25K in his CoreStates bank account and paid the 25K credit card bill with the other. Some people have all the luck....want to know the kicker? He works at Goldman now.
LOL
More "color".
I told the guy that I bailed to do BK before the indnture act. He sat on that. I even wnt through the backwaters of HSBC mortgage to buy his house---cash. No deal from them. They did have to take 30% less than what I offered, so I am glad that I have no interest in that. HSBC loss on first and seconds is more than 50% of their book, and that is in a market that is far removed from the notorious bubble zones. Their rude twerps annoyed me so much that I dropped it all in disgust. Those maggots saved me a lot of hard earned after tax cash from shitty manufacturing. I feel blessed.
I'm unemployed 7 months. I never carry credit card balances, pay cash for cars, my bills are limited to gas, water, electric, miscellaneous, cell phone and have only 1 debt - a jumbo mortgage. I have signficant liquid assets, but have let my underwater mortgage go 6o days delinquent for six months now, trying to get lender's attention. The want my financials, but I won't provide them cuz they'll tell me to pound sand. Only silver lining is my rate resets in August from 5.25% to 225bps over 1YR LIBOR, which last time I check was sub-1%..... Can't really figure a way out of scenario in which, if I can't get job, bank either gets all my cash, bleeds me dry, or I default, they foreclose and get a deficiency judgement and get Mr. Gravel on my ass and get all my cash that way......
Wall Street can stiff me, but I can't stiff my bankers. Nice.
Geithner cheats the IRS, gets appointed UST Secretary. If I cheat the IRS I get a world o' pain. Nice.
Dodd gets and Friends&Family mortgage deal, winds up regulating the hell out of Wall Street, then off the rich lobbying gig. I get a standard mortgage deal, go broke. Nice.
Obama scores POTUS gig w/o so much as producing his hardcopy birth certificate. Yet if I try for a job with his Gubmint, I gotta give up my first-born to get a security clearance. Nice.
The Gubmint keeps all the insolvent banks alive via huge cash infusions and bogus accounting maneuvers, thus delaying the industry clean-up process that would provide good-paying work for me. Thanks, O. You da man.
I attend a rally on the Mall and witness a thing of beauty - 25,000 peacable but very concerned citizens assmbled with great energy and a deep love for their unique county. Listening to the radio on the way home, the sick US media, rather than reporting what took place, paints me a racist with a fraudulent storyline about black Congressmen - who waded in to the crowd with cameras rolling in a bogus effort to paint me a racist - having supposedly been slurred and spattered. And Barney Frank calls me a tea-bagger. Nice.
Other than that, I'm having a great year.
deficiency judgement?
What state? refinanced?
What you have working for you is that Bernanke wants to make your debts---and everyone else's---go away through the sublime beauty of hyperinflation and currency destruction. It's all part of the new capitalism and new morality for the 21st Century. Fuck up in a small way and hyperinflation might save you, provided you make an effort in the meantime to pretend you care about your debts. Fuck up in a huge way and you win the jackpot: unlimited taxpayer bailouts. And you can use some of that taxpayer money to lobby Congress so that the rules favor you and reward your new morality in the future. It's a brave new world.
The absolute suckers, the lowest of the low, the ones who are being selected out by Darwinian evolution, the ones everyone else is laughing at, are those foolish enough to think lack of debt, living within or below one's means, setting aside funds for the proverbial "rainy day", and refraining from conspicuous consumption were somehow a mark of character and discipline.
As if Bernanke would ever allow prudence and responsibility to be rewarded! Deflation? Over Bernanke's dead body.
Well, we can hope, right?
I can't believe the volume of responses here. Some seem supportive, but many don't. I can't understand why anyone would give this guy such grief in light of what we've seen go on with Wall Street the last decade. Are you fucking kidding me?
I SAY EVERYONE DEFAULT! STARVE THE BEAST! This whole credit addicted culture needs to get smashed to bits!
Hey dude 100K in debt. Just remit your bills to Bernanke and ask him to pay for it.....
Exactly.
I am Chumbawamba.
So like.... Why would I want to Publish/falsify/brag-about my positions on this forum?
Dunno....
God, this is awful, I had about $90,000 in CC debt and got it paid down to $40k before I bailed. I haven't heard from any of the above mentioned folks seeking payment. Of course, I got my phone disconnected and moved to Phnom Penh, Cambodia. Only the ANZ Bank has a branch here, Citicorp, Chase,etc - Cambodia - you've got to be kidding, they may open up here in another 50 or so years. Anyway, it's great hanging out at Sharky's or Shanghai most nights. Hungry, lonely, bored? Phnom Penh's the place. Between my 401(k) and SocSec things couldn't be much better. Did I mention the great French restaurants that are so cheap? And Khmer food is just delicious, not too hot like that Thai cusine. And for dessert, back to Shanghai to some takeout.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/25251510/Jade-Falcon-Chapter-Seven-Phnom-Penh-...
When I started buying silver in 2004 I had 9,000 in CC debt and 85k mort.
end of 2005: 200oz silver 12k CC
end of 2006: 200oz silver 1oz gold 14k CC
end of 2007: 250oz silver 2 oz gold 14k CC
end of 2008: 800oz silver 10 oz gold 2oz platinum 45k CC
end of 2009: 600oz silver 5 oz gold 30k CC
now: 600oz silver, 3 oz gold, 12k CC, 6k cash, 79k mort, 2k worth of Mountain House food and several water purifiers.
I still have a job
but...
if i loose it because of the bankster fuckshaniery, I am with the OP and Chumba and I have around 100k waiting to be utilized with extreem prejudice.
Dangerously close to being a third member of the "I incriminated myself online" club.
Also could you be anymore specific for the Feds in the event of precious metal confiscation? Oh, yes, you forgot to tell us the actual location, whether in your house, or buried on your property! Please inform us in extreme detail, so we can all wonder at how intelligent you really are.
hehe
Its all lies!
My name is not really Floyd. I own noting. I live in a abandoned van down by the river.
I like to roleplay.
I also discredited myself in Leo's 2nd wave thread.
I didnt even type this.
But... theres always a but. If I do loose my job... what I do will not matter because SWHTF
Disclosure: Long John SILVER bitches!
Um, excuse me, Asshole, but what did this guy do to "incriminate" himself? Specifically, what "crime" has he committed? My simple mind comes away with the impression that he arbitraged his credit card funds with precious metals and paid down the debt when his metals performed well. Please do inform us as to how this is a premeditated crime.
You seem to have an unhealthy respect for "authority".
I am Chumbawamba.
Cass Sunstein and his blogging Gestapo.
What does dear reader suggest to do when one has cheaply financed debt and cash and other assets.
Continue to pay debt or move assets?
you got to know when to hold em
know when to max em
know when to walk away
know when to move to another country
You think it's coincidence that your loans aren't being forgiven despite the bubble bursting and your earning potential slipping permanently away. It's not.
Permanent damage to the economy and morale of the country been done by banksters. They have a lock on Washington and the legal system. They can buy off anybody, anytime and intimidate the rest. The rising anger has no teeth, no clear message...been neutered.
We've outsourced work and are fully import dependent. You are more valuable to the system as a consumer. You must consume. If you work you require pay, benefits, payroll taxes and insurance. You are a nuisance at best. You take from the economy. What you produce takes income away from countries who want to do it themselves. They hold the debt, the massive debt over our heads.
Debt free...don't need the headaches. Can't imagine running them to the moon. I buy what I can afford--no more.
I have about $25,000 in student debt, and no credit card debt. It is all fixed and I have been paying it off for the past nine months and plan on paying it off completely. The way I see it, this wave of radical default is actually pretty good for me. It means that the Fed is going to have to monetize further, and the dollar is going to plunge even further. This is fine with me since I am being paid in Won, which is doing pretty well since I've had the job:
http://www.google.com/finance?q=usdkrw
Some people get too caught up in the extreme option of hedging against apocalypse that I feel like they hedge too little against the continuation of this shitmobile. I don't consider myself particularly fortunate since I graduated in the least hired class in recent history, and incurred considerable debt at the worst time to do so. I considered maxing out and buying PMs but decided against it. Shiny medals, debt, and bad credit rating did not sound as enticing as plane tickets, the ability to find a job and limitless possibilities.
For some people, it is the only option, and my best wishes go out to you, whether you reached this massive debt by your own consious choice or through necessity. In the past you had choices and now they are fewer. Whatever choices you have now, I would make it your priority to try to buck this trend. Having my options open is the most important thing to me. This is how I measure my wealth.
You eat it, you pay it.
If you don't pay your bills your nothing more but mud.
I have a mortgage that still runs for 2.5 years. Since I was concerned with counterparty risk, I opened another account with the mortgage bank and put enough money in it to pay off the whole mortgage. So even if my "normal" Bank goes bankrupt, nobody has any claims on me.
The rest of my money for the moment goes into phys. gold and silver, but compared to the mortgage thats a relatively small amount.
I am debt free and live below my means. This gives me a lot of freedom and I don't feel burdened. Having said that, If I was hugely indebted I would feel no shame in sticking it to any of these institutions. I encourage people to do this. They have recieved many unfair advantages and had no accountability, and yet some of you have the audacity to expect the common man to live by the rules when the Corp. and banks do not. The politicians caters to them and recieve benefits from them while the common citizen pays their salaries. They pass legislation that has the appearance of good only to be revised or passed with some other selfserving garbage hidden inside. Two wrongs don't make a right, this is true so stop supporting the system and stop one of the wrongs.
Exactly.
I am Chumbawamba.
I have maxed out my ZIRP credit cards and use the money to buy 10% interest bonds, REITs, and other yielders to average about
7%py. Otherwise in credit balance.
MARKET UPDATES :
http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/latest-market-outlook-0
Well, it sounds as if you didn't intend to max out your credit cards and then file for bankruptcy, to go out in a blaze of glory, as it were. But your working life didn't work out the way you expected. I think you did the right thing. The banks extended you these unsecured loans, perhaps stupidly, and you can't pay them back. These are the some of the same clowns writing billions in mortgages to "thin file high FICO" borrowers (short credit history, all good, making 20K a year) to buy half a million dollar homes with negative amortization mortgages. Let 'em write off your 100K.
We need to release all the pot smokers that are locked up in jail. That would free up lots of space. We can use this space to warehouse bankers and non-paying debtors. Unless we prosecute fraud at every instance, we will see plenty more of it. Every one of these financial catastrophes has been punctuated by huge financial fraud. The fraud mostly goes unpunished. That is why we keep having repeat occurances. The business cycle is just a fraud cycle. The cycle repeats because no one is jailed. We need to do things differently this time.
How will the private, for profit prisons stay in business?? Pot smokers and tax evaders are their bread and butter.
Should be an interesting battle when Cali legalizes pot next election. Should drive the Feds crazy.
Always have paid cards on time and have no debt but have been thinking about gettin' me some. If we get 70's style inflation I'd rather be a debtor than a creditor and make those fixed payments with currency that's worth less and less. The trick is having (continuing to have) an income stream that keeps pace with inflation....a big 'If.'
-At the right entry point, taking down a large fixed-rate mortgage and plowing that cash into TIPS would work once inflation exceeds the mortgage rate.
-The most simple and elegant trade might be to take down that large fixed rate mortgage and buy PM (gold probably) with it, then cash in the (likely rapidly appreciating) gold bit by bit to make the regular mortgage payments as inflation zooms. I think this would have worked well in the late 70's - early 80's. Actually, if you put that trade on a couple years ago you'd be killing it right now even without the inflation.
I know a lot of you gold bugs are armed to the teeth but I would like to point out that when gold and especially silver shot up in the early 80's, residential burglaries did too. Taking physical delivery of PM has it's downside.....as do ETFs, third party storage etc.
I have more faith in my Mossberg 500 than I do any bank vault.
I am Chumbawamba.
And down three feet into the bosom of Mother Earth.
Above average slave to the system... but working on breaking out.
Paid off the credit card
Paid off the car
Pay my taxes on time (With a big freaking frown)
Still have a fixed rate mortgage, but running an extra 5000$ a year to it. With any luck, it should be paid off in another 15-18 years if I can keep it up.
And a 401k + Roth which are mostly paper and not worth the fuckall.
Ok -
I had about 100K in CC debt. I saw the banks get bailed out.
I thought it time to bail myself out. Well in five more months
I will be completely debt fee. Basically negotiated all the debt
at around 38¢ on the dollar.
And, over all these years, I certainly had paid them more in
interest than the hit they are taking.
Nothing personal... just business - cold hearted business.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87ohP3auIM0
Mastercard..Blow me!!!
Bankruptcy is probably the best option. But defaulting does make sense because if you are paying 20% or more you come out ahead by not paying. Most States have a maximum on the Judgement Interest that can be charged once a Person Defaults. In Maryland it is 10%. So once the Judgement is entered the Maximum Interest you will pay is 10%. Some States the Judgement Interest is lower. There are no minimum payments anand after 12 years the Judgement is eliminated unless the Creditor renews it. Which most do not.
SSo, in effect it is better to Default.
P.S. They cannot get a Judgement if they cannot Serve You Papers. Do not EVER answer the door, do not let any of your Family answer the door, do not do not answer the Phone. Put a For Rent sign in your front yard with one of your Relitives numbers on it, put a Key Box on your front door. Without a Judgement it can only stay on your Credit Report for 7 years.
Once they file a Complaint against you they only have 1 year in Maryland to Serve you. If they cannot Serve you they cannot get a Judgement.
If they get a Judgement Appeal it. That way it will not show up on your Credit Report as you will show up as the Plaintiff and the Credit Reporting Agencies do not check on the outcome of an Appeal. If you lose the Appeal it will still be a Judgement against you but at least you have capped your Interest Rate at 10% in Maryland. Check your State for the Judgement Interest. Some States are as low as 6%. It applies to your States Usury Laws. All States have Usury Rates, that is why the Banks Incorporated in Delaware because they do not have Usury Rates.
It looks like the Congress may re establish Usury Rates because of the Banks abuse. I hope they get a new Law passed soon.
Also, put your House in a LLC. or a Corporation thru a Quick Claim Deed. That way the Personal debt will not be a Judgement against your Home.