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Overnight Clips From A Revolutionary Egypt

Tyler Durden's picture





 

You won't see these images on the TV. After all we haven't even anniversaried Waddell & Reed's sudden and dramatic selling of ES into a bidless market that caused the world's most "liquid" stock market to lose 1,000 points. In the meantime, what is going on in Egypt is promptly deteriorating. Our only question is: who's next?

 



 


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Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:42 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

When are we going to see a bloody knuckle throw down in any Western nation?

C'mon, Ireland. You're up. Do what Iceland did and tell the World & Central Bankers to Fock Off, and do some damage to JP Morgan & Goldman Sachs' assets on the Emerald Isle while you're at it.

We are counting on Ireland to show the West that some things are worth throwing down over - such as the ability to feed your children and live in dignity, not being raped by 'wankin' fuckin' bankers.'

An Irishman abroad tells it like it is
Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:53 | Link to Comment pslater
pslater's picture

+1 Well put!

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:00 | Link to Comment Grimbaldus The ...
Grimbaldus The Norman's picture

Remember these words well, and call me out when it happens:

 

The Irish will be one of the first to do this. Keep a sharp eye on them in the next few months, because they'll be showing us just how they do things, and we can learn from their example when it happens.

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:06 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

In related news, and almost too bizarre to be true, and 'had to have been born of utter narcissism,' the bankers have had enough, and aren't going to take it anymore:

End of an Era of Bankers’ Contrition The New York Times

By JACK EWING 11:09 AM ET

At the World Economic Forum, top bankers were taking more assertive positions against new regulations.

 

So, the bankers are sick of being persecuted? REALLY?

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:25 | Link to Comment Grimbaldus The ...
Grimbaldus The Norman's picture

Good. Fuck 'em. Keep the pressure on.

 

Laws? Regulations? Since when do bankers give fuckall about those things?

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:58 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

They write them!!!

Complaining is:

a. For show.
b. The wannabe banksters complaining.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:26 | Link to Comment Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

They said they were sorry, what the fuck do you want? </sarc>

On second thought, no, they didn't actually say sorry.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:49 | Link to Comment Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

I can almost hear the chant out of Davos: "Let them eat cake."

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:55 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

We all know how things turned out the last time a certain someone allegedly made that retort in response to human suffering.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:02 | Link to Comment Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I tell you what - all hell's going to break loose if this shit overflows into any oil producing country or disrupts supply out of the Straight.  N.Africa is essentially part of the M.East, and Egypt is [was] a cornerstone of stability in the region. 

I'm keeping a close eye on Saudi Arabia - that place is a powder keg waiting for a match - and it's not like we can march in and help keep order... 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:11 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

...and it's not like we can march in and help keep order... 

Yes we can!*

 

*Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Kuwait, Somalia, Panama, Grenada, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, Europe (x2), Cuba, China, Mexico, Canada, et cetera.

 

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:44 | Link to Comment robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Canada? You'll have to run over me with a tank. I'll call Putin. He'll mess you up.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 20:54 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

The US military is stretched mighty thin right about now... of course once enough Americans are are poor enough maybe joining the army will look more attractive.  Or they can start up the draft, that'll go over well.

Thu, 01/27/2011 - 02:06 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

"...once enough Americans are are poor enough maybe joining the army will look more attractive."

We are already there.  They have been turning people away for at least a year.  Hope and Change.  Sputnik.

Thu, 01/27/2011 - 07:38 | Link to Comment Surly1
Surly1's picture

I thought the whole point of globalism, job exports and transferrence of wealth to the banks was to make Americans poor enough to flock to the recruiting stations. Did I miss something?

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:17 | Link to Comment Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

I'm keeping a close eye on Saudi Arabia - that place is a powder keg waiting for a match - and it's not like we can march in and help keep order...

You need to review your stement there. For many decades the US has had a substantial presence in Saudi Arabia. Many US military units run regular rotations and support many bases in that country. Basically the US military is the hired gun in Saudi and paid very well for that job.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:43 | Link to Comment Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Support the US provides to the Royal Family in Saudi Arabia is not rendered by US troops patroling the streets. 

There is a completely different dynamic over there.  Basically, my understanding is that the majority population sees the Royal Family as selling out their birthright to The Great Satan.  Therefore, they are, essentially, agents of the enemies of Arabs and Muslims.  If unrest gets to the point where the Royal Family has to leave the country and we left provide visible support [ie troops on the ground/gunships/armor carrying US flag] I believe there will be unprecidented violence.  I don't believe that we can keep the flow of oil uninterrupted across the entire M.E.     

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 23:12 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

We train and supervise the Saudi Military, which protects one of the most corrupt regimes on the face of the earth, being The House of Saud.

Syriana was a good movie because it explained, albeit in a simplistic way, the dynamics of the relationship between what is our protection in exchange for the oil we need, at the cost of propping up some of the most anti-democratic and barbaric regimes in the world.

Some will say "hey, we have to be pragmatic here, and we need oil." It's true that we need oil. It's the double-speak and hypocrisy about human rights and democracy that gets us into trouble or reduces our credibility to shreds.

 

 

Thu, 01/27/2011 - 02:11 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Check our who is a major shareholder (3) and joint venture partner (other 3) in all 6 US TV networks which control 95% of the channels on American TV.   It is all about access to the TV satellites in islamic countries and china.  i.e. they control the monds of the masses and they could gove a shit about the welfare of American citizens.   The public is too stupid to know  what is going on - they just want their daily HD brainwashing of ball games plus other idiocy. 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:09 | Link to Comment Grimbaldus The ...
Grimbaldus The Norman's picture

Yep. It's hard to enjoy yourself when you're without a head.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:26 | Link to Comment Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Just because they turned out badly doesn't mean it isn't likely...

And I think France was clearly better off 50 years later than it would have been without the revolution.  Now, the intervening 50 years, not so good.  Much like Russia today; better off than in 1916, but 1917-1998 was not such a good period.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 17:26 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Irish Car B0mbz bitchez! ...hic!

Agreed. Ireland seems to have a long proud history of not taking any shit from the richie bankster types.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 19:19 | Link to Comment THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Yee guys are talking out your ass - you have no idea about Southern Ireland - its a vassal state and always has been - the "Republic" was a illusion to placate the masses once the Edwardian teet was no longer producing milk.

If we can't eat our daily spud then things may change.

Ps my own understanding of the events leading up to "independence" is changing - I sense a decision by London financiers to transfer power from the UK to the US and some Irish agitators were necessary for the first break in the commonwealth although we were technically part of the UK at the time. - I realise this sounds fantastic but where exactly did Dev get the funds for rebellion ? 

Was it all just Fenian Americans ? maybe - who knows what history really is - none now live that can remember it.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 23:15 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

It was the Fenian Americans and maybe the Germans in 1916.  

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:03 | Link to Comment satansanus
satansanus's picture

HELL YA Ireland got RAPED HARD by the bankers

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:19 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Actually Satan, they partied really hard when the bankers were letting them. They took the cheap money thinking it was a god given right sine they were a "Tiger" economy. They believed the lie of globalization and kept mute when their nation was transformed, in a heart-beat.

Now they're in the massive hangover phase.

And the bankster, like the dope dealer, is ruthless. No quarters given or asked really. If you want the fix, you pay a higher and higher price.

India is the same way. The US was/is the same way. Sleeping when good, howling when bad. Just like a drunk or an addict.

Now take Egypt, whole other level of nastiness. Mubarak came in on the back of an assasination of a popular president. Common ploy (Think Johnson). And has been kept in power though a sham democracy. And the classic secret police, torture of ordinary citizens etc. And life in Egypt has sucked for the common man for decades. Also on purpose. With wealth like theirs.... boggles the mind, culture, history, art.... all for the stealing into western museums...no more. And becoming tourist whores for the rest.

Righteous anger there. I'd fear it.

The west will go like sheep. To controlled and overfed for too long.

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/wisdom-for-warriors-3/

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:30 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I say force all banks to pay back all money they were given by taxpayers, whether by TARP, TALF, POMO, POMO commissions, or any of the DOZENS if not HUNDREDS of other schemes whereby they've been funneled tax money.

Also, return all the shit the Federal Reserve has bought from them in the way of MBS and other toxic paper and demand a refund of whatever was paid, so we don't have to compensate for the Fed's losses, as we will now ultimately undoubtedly be forced to do.

What's that? The banks don't have the money? Then let them fail, and let true investors bid for their sellable assets, whether for 50 cents on the dollar, or .0005 cents on the dollar.

Protect the deposits via the FDIC limits, to prevent a run on the banks, and let the banks fail. Deem none 'too big to fail.'

Let nature take its course with the banks, as should have been done from the start.

Maybe then, instead of hearing about bankers whining because their bonuses are too small this year, they can get a job at McDonald's or Lowe's (Lowe's is laying off 1,700 managers and replacing them with weekend employees).

You'll have true price discovery, equilibrium between volume of buyers and sellers, and you can clear the deck of the foreclosures and other assets clogging their balance sheets, which they know not what to do with except suck taxdollars up on a Federal Reserve & Treasury lifeline, as everyone kicks the can down the street and "extends and pretends."

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:33 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Ahhhh, but that would require common sense.  Unfortunately, there are not enough in Capital Hill that possess this "common sense".  The global banking oligarch must stay in place in order for the ruling to continue ruling.  They will have it no other way, that is until they can't.  I am waiting for the latter, but I might as well wait for monkeys to start shitting gold and pissing silver while they fly from my ass.

I'll check my ass and keep you posted...

Nope, Bernanke is there stuffing wads of fiats up me arse.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:10 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Technically the 'money' returned from the banks, if that were to happen, should go back to its source...which I guess is the Fed? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) Whereupon it should just disappear.

Wasn't the TARP money just created by the Fed? And as such, was just a form of QE, albeit directed at specific entities?

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 20:24 | Link to Comment Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

Actually TARP came from the US Treasury, which means that it ACTUALLY came from a loan the Chinese, in effect, made when they purchased the US Treasury securities.

 

The Fed is -supposedly- apolitical, and its discount window actions do not require Congress' approval...unless you want to be re-approved for the Board of Governors for another term (at a future date)!  Then, that person is just another wart on the arse of progress.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:19 | Link to Comment GreenSideUp
GreenSideUp's picture

Like your plan. 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:19 | Link to Comment Watauga
Watauga's picture

Please explain, and please use some facts, evidence, and rational analysis.  Thank you.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:21 | Link to Comment Watauga
Watauga's picture

Please explain this idea about "the rape of Ireland by the bankers"--and please use facts, evidence, and rational analysis to do so.  Thanks.

By the day, a collapse of the social order would bring about either the law of the jungle or tyranny--is that what you want?

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:35 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Um, can you provide the counter-point factual argument - like how the use of pension funds to maintain senior bondholders is not the rape of Irish taxpayers? Please use facts, evidence and rational analysis. 

And no, defaulting on senior bank debt does not have to imply the collapse of the social order. Iceland seems to be doing just fine, thank you very much. Do not equate saving bondholders (investors that placed their money at risk) with a collapse of the social order. 

You could also read about Treasury issued currency (as opposed to the Rothschild's bond-auctioning/privately-held central bank paradigm). You could start with the Lincoln issued Greenback. Or the Kennedy issued silver certificate. Read some of the famous quotes by them. See many of the debt-money videos on the web. 

Get up to speed. Or simply troll for the banks. Your call. 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:04 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Thank you for that comment.  Last I heard, Tina Turner wasn't sending zombie minions after Mel Gibson's ass. 

Is this because the total economy of Iceland is so small that it really makes no difference?  Can Iceland be considered a scale model representation of what would occur in the western world (U.S.) if the same thing happened? 

Would things really be different with U.S. failure because of our larger sphere of influence and reserve currency,,,, or is it just the crying death throes of the ponzi and TPTB that our future will end in death, chaos and anarchy? 

I'm going to bet there are pretty damn good arguments on both sides.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:28 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Colonel - good questions all. And I understand them to be rhetorical, but I wanted to throw out my thoughts nevertheless.

IMHO, Iceland represents what could happen here, and the central benefit they had was the small size of their economy/society and the obviousness of the banker mess - a small number of banks got so big that it was so egregious what the bankers did. There was no way a small society of Icelanders wanted to bailout foreign depositors. 

Therefore, a small group of people saw what was rather obvious - they didn't create the problem and therefore didn't want to be the bag-holders. 

In our situation, I believe we could make a smooth transition to a debt-free Treasury-issued currency, backed by PM's or not. Allow for multiple currencies. Give the people an incentive with a debt jubilee and the nationalization of the zombie banks. Make it about the people, explain the issues, and create and implement a community-based solution. 

But, because the bankers are in charge, they will not go quietly in the night. They will fight, kicking and screaming, any Treasury-issued currency. Therefore, the actual transition, the huge default and collapse, which is inevitable at this point, will be halting, chaotic, and tragic. Yes, it is the ponzi that threatens the result will be chaos, and by this they have created a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

Oh, minor point, anarchy is exactly what we need, but because the word has gotten smudged it has lost its more correct meaning (IMHO). Anarchy does not imply chaos. To me, it implies self-rule and liberty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy

"A social state in which there is no governing person or group of people, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder)."

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:40 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Good answers, and appreciated because my questions are only semi-rhetorical. 

I agree with your (or the actual) definition of anarchy btw, it just ends up being used as a synonym for Mad Max. 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:19 | Link to Comment Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Thank you!

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 23:35 | Link to Comment Rick64
Rick64's picture

  The IMF-led package of $4.6bn was finally agreed on 19 November, with the IMF loaning $2.1bn and another $2.5bn of loans and currency swaps from Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark. In addition, Poland has offered to lend $200M and the Faroe Islands have offered $50M, about 3% of Faroese GDP.[106] The Icelandic government also reported that Russia has offered $300M.[107] The next day, Germany, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom announced a joint loan of $6.3bn (€5bn), related to the deposit insurance dispute.

 Sounds like Iceland is not only bailing out those foreign depositors (otherwise UK and the Netherlands would never make loans to them), but taking loans from the IMF and several other countries.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:42 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

First, you presume that our present system is not very similar to "the law of the jungle or tyranny" already.  Second, you presume that through austerity, the law of the jungle or tyranny will be avoided.  Both are incorrect.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:51 | Link to Comment apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

Watauga:  If you cannot understand how the Irish have been thoroughly raped (with no K-Y), then you are either a CFA/IMF/Bankster troll or economically disadvantaged. Which one is it?

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:23 | Link to Comment tonyw
tonyw's picture

I don't think any or the Irish politicians are looking to change the fail-out agreement so again just a choice between different heads of the same beast.

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:01 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I know the Irish, and have friends there.

The current government, which will resign soon (they've already announced it), and all other politicians there, are truly afraid of their constituents, unlike in many parts of the 'civilized' world.

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:15 | Link to Comment Grimbaldus The ...
Grimbaldus The Norman's picture

Agreed.

Michael Collins comes to mind, actually. A lot of people didn't agree with him, but.. dude knew how to start some shit, take the heat, and fling it back. I don't agree with everything the man did (compromising would be one of them at this point, not the violence bit), but we need more people like him.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:35 | Link to Comment chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Wow, dem brown peoplez iz not so differnt than us after all, iz dey?

I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 20:38 | Link to Comment spinone
spinone's picture

We are all the same, skin color is irrelevant.  Soon everyone will see that it is the oppressors vs. the oppressed.  And there are more of us than of them.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 20:36 | Link to Comment spinone
spinone's picture

Soon, my brother, soon.  And it will be a terrible day.  When TPTB awake the sleeping giant that is the USA, the Earth will shake, and the Heavens will cry. 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 22:54 | Link to Comment killben
killben's picture

@TruthInSunshine,

 

Sopt on!

IRISH MEN AND WOMEN ... ARISE, AWAKE AND STOP NOT   TILL YOU HAVE RECLAIMED THE COUNTRY FROM THE POSSE OF POLITICIANS (irrespective of party affiliations) WHO WILL SELL YOU, YOUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN FOR PENNIES TO SAVE THE BANKSTERS!

Follow these rules and you are done!

1. POLITICIANS (irrespective of party affiliations) ...If you see them, stone them or burn them! Burn all policticians if possible .. else stone them whenever you meet them .. road, car, super markets, as beggars who come for your votes ...

2. Apply same rules to BANKSTERS

3. Apply same rules to CENTRAL BANKERS

4. TORCH THE BUILDINGS THAT HOUSE THEM

5. TORCH THE VEHICLES THAT CARRY THEM

Do it in masses. Do it constantly without let up. Watch the results flow in.

All the best!

 

 

 

Thu, 01/27/2011 - 01:20 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Well the masses in the west are manipulated by the media and tabloid celeb lifestyle.  Everyone fawns over wankers like Bono and U2 who pay almost no tax in Ireland yet want western taxpayers to send hundreds of billions to third world countries - it ends up in dictators pockets.  Maybe when people turn off the TV, the ball games and corporate pitchmen whores like U2 then they might take us seriously.   Iceland is the model folks.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Timmay
Timmay's picture

The Government denies___________.

 

Fill in the blank with whatever you want.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:49 | Link to Comment Zina
Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:07 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

Concerned about global warming?  Kill yourself.  It's the best way to lower CO2 emissions.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:36 | Link to Comment Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

The biggest problem I have with the glow-ballwarmers is that they seem to completely neglect Earth's history where CO2 levels have been more than 20x what they are currently, yet the Earth was no hotter.

CO2 is a negligible greenhouse gas but a wonderful plant food. I don't see the problem with humankind removing lifeless carbon from the ground and restoring Earth to its former glory as a a paradise of lush flora and fauna.

" the late Ordovician suffered an ice age (with associated mass extinction) while atmospheric CO2 levels were more than 4,000ppm higher than those of today (yes, that's a full order of magnitude higher), "

http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/historical_CO2.html

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:02 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

 Believe what you want to believe....one bit of advice, just avoid buying ocean front property.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 17:58 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

That's the best you've got? Property damage? Your premise seems to be that the earth is in fact warming, and that Human Doings can actually do something to prevent it. To do that, we have to find the cause. There are theories, charts, and data indicating that CO2 is a trailing effect of temp and solar activity.

Some free advice: Food does not grow when the ground is covered in all that frozen white shit. So, given the choice between warmer, or colder, I'm going with warmer any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

BTW: The new catch phrase, is Climate Change. Please, try to keep up with the ManBearPig's hedging.

 

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 21:33 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

not to worry, your leaders are taking care of the weather now. . .

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) opened the Cancun conference last week by discussing geoengineering options that will be further explored in Peru later this year. Such environmental modification (ENMOD) programs include putting mirrors in space, iron seeding the oceans, planting genetically modified forests, and chemtrailing the skies. Of course, all of these activities are already well underway.

The next UN climate change assessment report, AR5, is due out in November of 2014. It will include geoengineering options, said Indian businessman and economist, Rajendra Pachauri, who chairs the IPCC. In his introductory comments in Cancun, he stated, “The scope of the AR5 has also been expanded over and above previous reports, and would include, for instance, focused treatment of subjects like clouds and aerosols, geo-engineering options,” and the usual climate related issues.

 

http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2010/12/06/un-climate-concern-morphs-in...

aerosol'd aluminium, etc. - that's going to fit right in with Monsanto's new GMO aluminium resistant terminator seed sales!

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:30 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

Bingo!! What part of science don't the global warmers get?

You're exactly right about CO2 levels over the last 500 million years, proven by ocean sediment samples. We are in one of only a few periods of all time low atmospheric CO2 levels at 388 ppm. The average over 500 million years has been 1350 ppm, and as high as >5000 ppm. 

The global warmers respond by saying, "believe what you want to believe -- we believe in science." 

....except they don't.

 

 

 

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:39 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

  I presume you are an expert in modeling non-linear systems? Any scientific background? Thermodynamics? Any thing but faith in what you what to believe leading to your conclusion?

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 17:24 | Link to Comment Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

Actually I have significant knowledge in those areas. That's why I know these computer models are worthless.

How do you cope with overwhelmingly computationally complex turbulence effects?

How do you predict based off of scant, biased, and bogus temperature data?

How do you model the evolution of autotrophs?

How do you model human economic reactions to climate changes? Humans bodies and brains are still elements of natural science last time I checked.

How do you model the poorly understood hydromagnetic dynamo effects of the sun?

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 20:56 | Link to Comment spinone
spinone's picture

It was the misunderstanding of soil microbes that made Biosphere II a failure.  Our understanding of the sun is rudimentary at best.  Before we tell people to modify their behavior that will significantly affect their standard of living, economy etc, we should be clear about the uncertainties.

I'm reasonably certain that the Earth temperature is rising (its always changing, rising or falling), but I'm nowhere certain that it is caused by human production of CO2.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 22:23 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
by gwar5
on Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:30
#906882

 

Bingo!! What part of science don't the global warmers get?

You're exactly right about CO2 levels over the last 500 million years, proven by ocean sediment samples. We are in one of only a few periods of all time low atmospheric CO2 levels at 388 ppm. The average over 500 million years has been 1350 ppm, and as high as >5000 ppm. 

The global warmers respond by saying, "believe what you want to believe -- we believe in science." 

....except they don't.

*******************************************************************************

Drill Baby! Drill!!! Praise Jesus!!

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 21:01 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

 

The Permian Extinction:

250 million years ago was not a fun time to live on earth. Studies now suggest that around this time, volcanic eruptions sparked coal fires that may have led to the extinction of over 90 percent of marine species.

The end of the Permian period culminated in a mass extinction, know as the "Great Dying."Researchers had speculated that volcanism contributed to this, and now there is evidence to accompany the theory. According to Discovery News, researchers reported in Nature Geosciencethat they found charred particles in the Arctic. The particles may be coal fly ash, created from burnt coal.

Stephen Grasby, the lead author, and his colleagues believe that huge volcanic eruptions east of Siberia could have set coal seams on fire. This would have sent huge amounts of highly toxic fly ash into the atmosphere. After dispersal, the ash would have settled in the water, limiting light penetration. The ash would have created poisonous conditions, thus supporting the theory that coal ash contributed to mass species extinction.

As further evidence of this theory, it appears that a large amount of char was deposited right before the mass extinction, which could have come from the combustion of coal. According to Gransby, "It's the first literal smoking gun to show that coal combustion was occurring."

Fast-forward 250 million years. Today, coal-fired power plants scrub the toxic fly ash from their emissions. But concern has recently been raised over the dangers of coal ash following a coal ash spill in Tennessee, and the sickening of Pennsylvania residents living near a dump site. When pressed two years ago, Homeland Security wouldn't disclose the location of coal ash dump sites as a matter of national security -- the toxic sites were considered too high a hazard.

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 22:55 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

ok.. for the Palin, Praise Jesus.. Drill Baby!! Drill!!! Crowd...

Seeing is believing, right? or am I making your eyes lie to you with the devils magic?

you decide...

#1... Mountain's, Rocky Mountains... North of washington state... in canada... winter olympics http://www.olympic.org/vancouver-2010-winter-olympics ....

#2... http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

#3... http://www.gigatonthrowdown.org/

for for those of you that know everything... becuase God speaks to you thru your dog... gigaton was scrubbed by the best minds at M.I.T. which is an ivey league school for people with a brain... but I am sure all of you know more than those guys with quad doctorates'.

and for the record this is me being nice.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:33 | Link to Comment Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

+1000

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:39 | Link to Comment Misean
Misean's picture

Best post ever! I'm gonna use that from now on, TYVM.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 22:56 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

ok.. for the Palin, Praise Jesus.. Drill Baby!! Drill!!! Crowd...

Seeing is believing, right? or am I making your eyes lie to you with the devils magic?

you decide...

#1... Mountain's, Rocky Mountains... North of washington state... in canada... winter olympics http://www.olympic.org/vancouver-2010-winter-olympics ....

#2... http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

#3... http://www.gigatonthrowdown.org/

for for those of you that know everything... becuase God speaks to you thru your dog... gigaton was scrubbed by the best minds at M.I.T. which is an ivey league school for people with a brain... but I am sure all of you know more than those guys with quad doctorates'.

and for the record this is me being nice.

Thu, 01/27/2011 - 01:24 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

+1

GW is another f*cking scam.  They have CO2 offset trading markets and C02 taxes run by guess who?  The f*cking banksters and their pals.  Including Obama's criminal cronies in Chicago.

Another big scam to tax and steal from working people.  Wake up people.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:10 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

I will see your wiki, and raise you the Chicago Climate Exchange "Liquidity Providers."

http://www.chicagoclimatex.com/content.jsf?id=64

Scan down through that list.  Or the "offset aggregators."

Scam.  All of it.

 

pods

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:16 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

+1000

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:41 | Link to Comment stewie
stewie's picture

Ditto

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:04 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Agreed, Cap'n Trade is a scam.... place a $30 per tonne tax on carbon (also leveled at imports) and the US becomes the low cost producer of steel in the world, might even lead to a few jobs here as well.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:16 | Link to Comment Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

How many jobs will be destroyed due to the increased price of steel?

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:35 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

In China? Many. The incremental cost in US steel with such a tax is marginal. The effect on your utility bill would be small, 1-2%. It creates jobs here because it is no longer cost effective to ship crap from China. Producers can then take advantage of internal lines of communication, i.e. rail which from a carbon standpoint is very cost effective. Moreover, you can reduce the FICA taxes to compensate for the revenues raised to ameriolate the effect.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:45 | Link to Comment Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

Socialist much?

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:54 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

 Wow...what a comeback. Why don't you come up with a substantive reply.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 17:28 | Link to Comment Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

Sorry, I won't debate socialists. Or flat-earthers. Or toddlers.

Learn some basic economic science and come back in a few years. Let me start you off: http://www.hacer.org/pdf/Hazlitt00.pdf

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 18:49 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

  Call me when you have a Ph.D and 20 peer reviewed papers, 5 years experience on Wall Street. You wouldn't know what a socialist was if they pissed in your face...

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 20:39 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Doc,

You can't debate these kinds of people. They are brainwashed fools. You know, just like Keynesians.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:51 | Link to Comment countryboy42
countryboy42's picture

Steel is set to increase by .10/lb in March. That equates to about a 20%-25%. I have to add this increase into all bids (not that there are that many), and tell customers that this price is only good until mid-march. After that, it's anybody's guess.

Add a carbon tax to it? NOT.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:55 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

  And pray tell, where is your steel coming from? Compute the cost increase from recent Bunker C increases and get back to me. 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:21 | Link to Comment countryboy42
countryboy42's picture

Hey, just reporting the facts. I build concrete embed plates, so I kinda have some insight as to what the market is doing.

p.s. I try to buy American as much as I can.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:31 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

  Was not trying to imply that you didn't know the steel market. Only trying to point out that our energy policy subsidises our own downfall. 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:57 | Link to Comment countryboy42
countryboy42's picture

Well, I know one reason for the increase is the price of scrap. Not sure of the %, as I only go to the scrap yard when I have a couple of tons to sell. I also have seen some of my suppliers increase their delivery price by .30/cwt.

Here in Colorado, we have two seasons, winter and road construction. Winter is here, but I am not seeing the bids for much road construction, and the commercial construction market is just dead, and has been for the last 1-1/2 years.

Hope this turns around, but not going to bet the farm on it. I will slowly get out of this industry as I go back to school at age 41.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 17:19 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

  I hope things work out...what are prospects for pipeline/oil/gas services? I am trying to steer my children into petroleum geology as a career. We'll see

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 18:52 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Nudge 'em towards wind.  That way the Cap and Trade you are so fond of won't put them out of work.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 19:12 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

 I called Cap and Trade a scam...many times

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 18:10 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Wouldn't a simpler and cheaper solution be eliminating the energy subsidies? Maybe even bringing our troops home from Pipeline-istan and the M/E? Allow price discovery to occur, and let the economics push for change. It might even create some jobs along the way.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 22:25 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
by pods
on Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:10
#906606

 

I will see your wiki, and raise you the Chicago Climate Exchange "Liquidity Providers."

http://www.chicagoclimatex.com/content.jsf?id=64

Scan down through that list.  Or the "offset aggregators."

Scam.  All of it.

 

pods

****************************************************************************

I will see your Drill Baby!!! Drill!!! Praise Jesus!!! and raise you a few gigaton's...

http://www.gigatonthrowdown.org/

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:13 | Link to Comment Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

Playing around with computer models in air-conditioned rooms and making vague predictions about the climate that can't be falsified in anyone's lifetime isn't science.

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:28 | Link to Comment nonclaim
nonclaim's picture

So true. How is that different from reading tea leaves or any other sort of divination? Scientificism is a religion for arrogant "intellectuals".

"Oh, but we are scientists we use computers. See, our models *predict* doom if *you* don't repent your excesses."...

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:36 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

 Just keep believing what you what to believe....

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:48 | Link to Comment Scout Itout
Scout Itout's picture

This fellow has been predicting the weather a year ahead of time with remarkable results...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEmUS7PAWFw

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 22:54 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

ok.. for the Palin, Praise Jesus.. Drill Baby!! Drill!!! Crowd...

Seeing is believing, right? or am I making your eyes lie to you with the devils magic?

you decide...

#1... Mountain's, Rocky Mountains... North of washington state... in canada... winter olympics http://www.olympic.org/vancouver-2010-winter-olympics ....

#2... http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

#3... http://www.gigatonthrowdown.org/

for for those of you that know everything... becuase God speaks to you thru your dog... gigaton was scrubbed by the best minds at M.I.T. which is an ivey league school for people with a brain... but I am sure all of you know more than those guys with quad doctorates'.

and for the record this is me being nice.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:13 | Link to Comment Robert Neville
Robert Neville's picture

Stop listening to the commies that want to control you and educate yourself. We overdue for an ice age. Check out the strange lack of sunspots. If is is possible for humans to warm the earth, we better get on with it or we will all freeze our asses off.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:49 | Link to Comment stewie
stewie's picture

 If is is possible for humans to warm the earth, we better get on with it

 

Funny stuff.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:44 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

 Here, chew on this

http://climateprogress.org/2011/01/04/munich-re-pielke-extreme-weather-damages-climate-change/

An excerpt:

Dr. Peter Höppe, Head of the Geo Risks Research Department at Munich Re, the co-author of Schmidt, Kemfert and Höppe, wrote me:

For me the most convincing piece of evidence that global warming has been contributing already to more and more intense weather related natural catastrophes is the fact that while we find a steep increase in the number of loss relevant weather events (about tripling in the last 30 years) we only find a slight increase in geophysical (earthquake, volcano, tsunami) events, which should not be affected by global warming. If the whole trend we find in weather related disaster should be caused by reporting bias, or socio-demographic or economic developments we would expect to find it similarly for the geophysical events. By the way the assumption that climate change is increasing the risk of extreme weather events is backed by IPCC.

But hey, its only Munich Re, the guys that actually insure things and take the risks.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:53 | Link to Comment Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

"global warming has been contributing already to more and more intense weather related natural catastrophes"

Post hoc ergo propter hoc

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:58 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

  Why don't you call up Munich Re and get some quotes on weather related insurance?

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 22:53 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

ok.. for the Palin, Praise Jesus.. Drill Baby!! Drill!!! Crowd...

Seeing is believing, right? or am I making your eyes lie to you with the devils magic?

you decide...

#1... Mountain's, Rocky Mountains... North of washington state... in canada... winter olympics http://www.olympic.org/vancouver-2010-winter-olympics ....

#2... http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

#3... http://www.gigatonthrowdown.org/

for for those of you that know everything... becuase God speaks to you thru your dog... gigaton was scrubbed by the best minds at M.I.T. which is an ivey league school for people with a brain... but I am sure all of you know more than those guys with quad doctorates'.

and for the record this is me being nice.

Thu, 01/27/2011 - 01:30 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Your nonsense is backed by tax cheats and frauds John Kerry and Ted Turner. BTW - Fuck off bigot.

 

Thu, 01/27/2011 - 02:37 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

big idiot? that may fit.. but bigot? me? really? I mean honestly i hate almost everyone, but its becuase they are stupid... it is not a race thing, i promise..

the tax cheats, that you are talking about darling... didnt pay for anything... M.I.T. and U.C.L.A. did the work and recouped the damages post work completed and then let people who they thought at the time would reach people ad thier names..

so, from you response... I am a bigot and you have not a fucking clue as to what really went into the document provided.

did you dog tell you I was a bigot? are you talking to your dog right now? tell the truth..

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:56 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Lets see.... You paste shit from climateprogress.org, who sources IPCC.  You need to hurry up and get us something from University of East Anglia to complete the trifecta of plausibility.

 

Not to mention the fact that it's difficult to make money insuring shit against loss from something that doesn't exist.  But if you can continue to dupe the world, (you) it's a pretty good gig.

Now run along.  The Easter Bunny is coming soon.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:57 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

 Dip shit, it is from a study done by Munich Re? Can't you read?

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:00 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

I did read it, can't you read? 

How do you sell insurance for something that doesn't exist?  Therefore, isn't it in your best interest to keep up the hoax so can keep insuring shit against shit that DOESN'T EXIST?

Go buy the fucking dip you fucking sheep.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:07 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

  For the record, it is clear you are incapable of having an intelligent conversation devoid of ad hominem and the like. Believe what you want, after all it is a free country.

As a matter of fact, I covered the short legs on my GDX calender spreads this AM, now up about $5000 for the day.

Now go away...

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:23 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

YOU sir posted a link from Climate Progress, a site that by their own admission is a liberal blog.  We all know they have no skin in the game.  They in an excerpt from a report by an insurance company that MAKES MONEY off of insuring climate related losses, cite IPCC.  Follow the money.

IPCC has had enough scandal attached to it's research practices in the last year to call into question their integrity and/or motives as an organization.  Come on, the East Anglia thing was funny.

To accuse me of not being able to have an intelligent conversation is a little ridiculous considering you offer  me nothing but liberal blogs, companies with a profit motive and findings by a disgraced international climate commission to refute. 

You call into question the scientific background of an earlier poster, and accuse him of running on faith, yet you offer up Huey Luey and Duey. 

Now go take your 5k (good call BTW) and buy some advance carbon credits.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 20:43 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Nice smackdown Colonel...

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 22:53 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

ok.. for the Palin, Praise Jesus.. Drill Baby!! Drill!!! Crowd...

Seeing is believing, right? or am I making your eyes lie to you with the devils magic?

you decide...

#1... Mountain's, Rocky Mountains... North of washington state... in canada... winter olympics http://www.olympic.org/vancouver-2010-winter-olympics ....

#2... http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

#3... http://www.gigatonthrowdown.org/

for for those of you that know everything... becuase God speaks to you thru your dog... gigaton was scrubbed by the best minds at M.I.T. which is an ivey league school for people with a brain... but I am sure all of you know more than those guys with quad doctorates'.

and for the record this is me being nice.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:17 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

It's one thing to observe an increase in weather-related catastrophes. It's a different thing to conclude they were caused by anything other than natural fluctuations.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 21:10 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

You forget, the deniers are smarter than everyone else.  Every major corporation in the world takes climate change/warming seriously, and are planning accordingly. 

This is the dumbing-down of America in action.  You guys really think that the uber-powerful scientific community is dominating the weak and helpless global energy cartels?  Whether or not cap & trade is a scam has nothing to do with it.

 

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 22:52 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

ok.. for the Palin, Praise Jesus.. Drill Baby!! Drill!!! Crowd...

Seeing is believing, right? or am I making your eyes lie to you with the devils magic?

you decide...

#1... Mountain's, Rocky Mountains... North of washington state... in canada... winter olympics http://www.olympic.org/vancouver-2010-winter-olympics ....

#2... http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

#3... http://www.gigatonthrowdown.org/

for for those of you that know everything... becuase God speaks to you thru your dog... gigaton was scrubbed by the best minds at M.I.T. which is an ivey league school for people with a brain... but I am sure all of you know more than those guys with quad doctorates'.

and for the record this is me being nice.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:16 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Some people deny the fact that the climate has fluctuated for billions of years. Some people deny that the warmer periods in human history have been concurrent with higher standards of living and longer life expectancy. Some people deny that Al Gore is set to make billions from carbon trading while poor people around the world starve.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:07 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

The average atmospheric CO2 over the last 500 million years has been 1350 ppm. Today it is only 388 ppm.

We actually have a shortage of CO2 today. Free the carbon!!

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 22:52 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

ok.. for the Palin, Praise Jesus.. Drill Baby!! Drill!!! Crowd...

Seeing is believing, right? or am I making your eyes lie to you with the devils magic?

you decide...

#1... Mountain's, Rocky Mountains... North of washington state... in canada... winter olympics http://www.olympic.org/vancouver-2010-winter-olympics ....

#2... http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

#3... http://www.gigatonthrowdown.org/

for for those of you that know everything... becuase God speaks to you thru your dog... gigaton was scrubbed by the best minds at M.I.T. which is an ivey league school for people with a brain... but I am sure all of you know more than those guys with quad doctorates'.

and for the record this is me being nice.

Thu, 01/27/2011 - 02:43 | Link to Comment Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

For the record, this is you being a spammer. C'mon JW, you are better than this.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:10 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

@ Zuni

Junk.

Please try to stay on topic.  Please follow Mosley's advice and kill yourself as you are a producer of that gas you so despise/fear.  Please spay and neuter all your friends and relatives before killing yourself.  After all it is people causing this right?  Help to alleviate some of your self hatred by becoming a part of the cure rather than the problem.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:27 | Link to Comment Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

What's the best way to protect the planet?

Clearly, self-immolation is not eco-friendly.

Can I sequester the unwanted CO2 by burying myself alive in cement? 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:45 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I'll second that: Here is the text from Jeremy Grantham  July newsletter. Now Mr. Grantham is nobody's fool:

(Unfortunately the link appears dead)

Grantham’s Everything You Need to Know About Global Warming in 5 Minutes appeared in GMO’s Quarterly Letter, published July 2010.

Everything You Need to Know About Global Warming in 5 Minutes
  1. The amount of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere, after at least several hundred thousand years of remaining within a constant range, started to rise with the advent of the Industrial Revolution. It has increased by almost 40% and is rising each year. This is certain and straightforward.
  2. One of the properties of CO2 is that it creates a greenhouse effect and, all other things being equal, an increase in its concentration in the atmosphere causes the Earth’s temperature to rise. This is just physics. (The amount of other greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, such as methane, has also risen steeply since industrialization, which has added to the impact of higher CO2 levels.)
  3. Several other factors, like changes in solar output, have major influences on climate over millennia, but these effects have been observed and measured. They alone cannot explain the rise in the global temperature over the past 50 years.
  4. The uncertainties arise when it comes to the interaction between greenhouse gases and other factors in the complicated climate system. It is impossible to be sure exactly how quickly or how much the temperature will rise. But, the past can be measured. The temperature has indeed steadily risen over the past century while greenhouse gas levels have increased. But the forecasts still range very widely for what will happen in the future, ranging from a small but still potentially harmful rise of 1 to 2 degrees Fahrenheit to a potentially disastrous level of +6 to +10 degrees Fahrenheit within this century. A warmer atmosphere melts glaciers and ice sheets, and causes global sea levels to rise. A warmer atmosphere also contains more energy and holds more water, changing the global occurrences of storms, floods, and other extreme weather events.
  5. Skeptics argue that this wide range of uncertainty about future temperature changes lowers the need to act: “Why spend money when you’re not certain?” But since the penalties can rise at an accelerating rate at the tail, a wider range implies a greater risk (and a greater expected value of the costs.) This is logically and mathematically rigorous and yet is still argued.
  6. Pascal asks the question: What is the expected value of a very small chance of an infinite loss? And, he answers, “Infinite.” In this example, what is the cost of lowering CO2 output and having the long-term effect of increasing CO2 turn out to be nominal? The cost appears to be equal to foregoing, once in your life, six months’ to one year’s global growth – 2% to 4% or less. The benefits, even with no warming, include: energy independence from the Middle East; more jobs, since wind and solar power and increased efficiency are more labor-intensive than another coal-fired power plant; less pollution of streams and air; and an early leadership role for the U.S. in industries that will inevitably become important. Conversely, what are the costs of not acting on prevention when the results turn out to be serious: costs that may dwarf those for prevention; and probable political destabilization from droughts, famine, mass migrations, and even war. And, to Pascal’s real point, what might be the cost at the very extreme end of the distribution: definitely life changing, possibly life threatening.
  7. The biggest cost of all from global warming is likely to be the accumulated loss of biodiversity. This features nowhere in economic cost-benefit analysis because, not surprisingly, it is hard to put a price on that which is priceless.
  8. A special word on the right-leaning think tanks: As libertarians, they abhor the need for government spending or even governmental leadership, which in their opinion is best left to private enterprise. In general, this may be an excellent idea. But global warming is a classic tragedy of the commons – seeking your own individual advantage, for once, does not lead to the common good, and the problem desperately needs government leadership and regulation. Sensing this, these think tanks have allowed their drive for desirable policy to trump science. Not a good idea.
  9. Also, I should make a brief note to my own group – die hard contrarians. Dear fellow contrarians, I know the majority is usually wrong in the behavioral jungle of the stock market. And Heaven knows I have seen the soft scientists who lead finance theory attempt to bully their way to a uniform acceptance of the bankrupt theory of rational expectations and market efficiency. But climate warming involves hard science. The two most prestigious bastions of hard science are the National Academy in the U.S. and the Royal Society in the U.K., to which Isaac Newton and the rest of that huge 18th century cohort of brilliant scientists belonged. The presidents of both societies wrote a note recently, emphasizing the seriousness of the climate problem and that it was man- made. (See the attachment to last quarter’s Letter.) Both societies have also made full reports on behalf of their membership stating the same. Do we believe the whole elite of science is in a conspiracy? At some point in the development of a scientific truth, contrarians risk becoming flat earthers.
  10. Conspiracy theorists claim to believe that global warming is a carefully constructed hoax driven by scientists desperate for … what? Being needled by nonscientific newspaper reports, by blogs, and by right-wing politicians and think tanks? Most hard scientists hate themselves or their colleagues for being in the news. Being a climate scientist spokesman has already become a hindrance to an academic career, including tenure. I have a much simpler but plausible “conspiracy theory”: that fossil energy companies, driven by the need to protect hundreds of billions of dollars of profits, encourage obfuscation of the inconvenient scientific results.
  11. Why are we arguing the issue? Challenging vested interests as powerful as the oil and coal lobbies was never going to be easy. Scientists are not naturally aggressive defenders of arguments. In short, they are conservatives by training: never, ever risk overstating your ideas. The skeptics are far, far more determined and expert propagandists to boot. They are also well funded. That smoking caused cancer was obfuscated deliberately and effectively for 20 years at a cost of hundreds of thousands of extra deaths. We know that for certain now, yet those who caused this fatal delay have never been held accountable. The profits of the oil and coal industry make tobacco’s resources look like a rounding error. In some notable cases, the obfuscators of global warming actually use the same “experts” as the tobacco industry did! The obfuscators’ simple and direct motivation – making money in the near term, which anyone can relate to – combined with their resources and, as it turns out, propaganda talents, have meant that we are arguing the science long after it has been nailed down. I, for one, admire them for their P.R. skills, while wondering, as always: “Have they no grandchildren?”
  12. Almost no one wants to change. The long-established status quo is very comfortable, and we are used to its deficiencies. But for this problem we must change. This is never easy.
  13. Almost everyone wants to hear good news. They want to believe that dangerous global warming is a hoax. They, therefore, desperately want to believe the skeptics. This is a problem for all of us.

Postscript
Global warming will be the most important investment issue for the foreseeable future. But how to make money around this issue in the next few years is not yet clear to me. In a fast-moving field rife with treacherous politics, there will be many failures. Marketing a “climate” fund would be much easier than outperforming with it

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 18:26 | Link to Comment Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

You keep posting stuff from investors and on insurance companies or something. I'll agree that there's always money to be made off of pseudoscience.

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 22:51 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

ok.. for the Palin, Praise Jesus.. Drill Baby!! Drill!!! Crowd...

Seeing is believing, right? or am I making your eyes lie to you with the devils magic?

you decide...

#1... Mountain's, Rocky Mountains... North of washington state... in canada... winter olympics http://www.olympic.org/vancouver-2010-winter-olympics ....

#2... http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

#3... http://www.gigatonthrowdown.org/

for for those of you that know everything... becuase God speaks to you thru your dog... gigaton was scrubbed by the best minds at M.I.T. which is an ivey league school for people with a brain... but I am sure all of you know more than those guys with quad doctorates'.

and for the record this is me being nice.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 18:47 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Thank you for providing us with yet another link to somebody with money on the table.

-F-

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 21:17 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

How much money do you think the fossil fuel industry has on the table?

 

Jesus.

Thu, 01/27/2011 - 00:23 | Link to Comment Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

Maybe you will listen to eminent physicists instead?

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/25/seven-eminent-physicists-that-are-skeptical-of-agw/

Or how about this guy?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/11/lewis_resignation_letter/

"It is of course, the global warming scam, with the (literally) trillions of dollars driving it, that has corrupted so many scientists, and has carried APS [the American Physical Society] before it like a rogue wave. It is the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life as a physicist. Anyone who has the faintest doubt that this is so should force himself to read the ClimateGate documents, which lay it bare ... I don't believe that any real physicist, nay scientist, can read that stuff without revulsion."

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 19:37 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

At one time, "science" also believed that the Sun revolved around the Earth.

Believing something != Truth

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 21:14 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Ignorance on parade...

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:42 | Link to Comment Salinger
Salinger's picture

posted earlier

Stockman tells Bloomterd US borderline bankrupt

 

http://bit.ly/igrKrI

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:44 | Link to Comment Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Read on Reuters last night that the government had banned further protesting. Obviously they are digging in for the big crackdown. For some reason, I don't think they care about the ban.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:44 | Link to Comment adeptus
adeptus's picture

Off-topic, but worth mentioning...

Apparently the Bernank isn't printing money fast enough for the Europeans. $20 BILLION of fake US bonds caught by Italian boarder police.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Italy-confiscates-euro20-apf-1927243563.html?x=0

WTF is going on? Just how many trillions in fake US bonds are out there? Come on, don't upset the Ben & Timmy team, nobody likes competition!

Here's what a quick 3 minute google search came up with, in regards to the ones that were caught recently. Makes you wonder just how many weren't caught.

Dec 31 2010 - $147 Million: http://www.journal.com.ph/index.php/metro/25330-fil-am-lola-caught-with-147-m-bonds.html
June 2009 - $134 BILLION: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a62_boqkurbI
May 2008 - $900 BILLION: http://news.smh.com.au/national/man-in-court-over-sale-of-fake-bonds-20080519-2fv0.html

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:51 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Just how many trillions in fake US bonds are out there?

To my way of thinking, they're *all* fake. 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:56 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

WTF is going on? Just how many trillions in fake US bonds are out there?

After several years researching supposedly unrelated government, corporate and individual "misdeeds" I noticed a commonality. Financial fraud mostly around government bonds as well as mortgage bonds. I suspect this is the central reason behind the never ending Fed pumping.

Because the fraud is so much larger than even we imagine. The Fed is desperately trying to cover it up with newly created "money" while the Treasury issues new bonds to redeem the fraudulently created ones the Treasury itself might have created. I suspect the Fed is buying up all that bad paper under the cover of the POMO.

Catherine Austin Fitts has been talking about this for years and years.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:03 | Link to Comment Printfaster
Printfaster's picture

The Italians let the men from the Japanese ministry of finance out on bail?

The activities at Chiaso are becoming legend:

http://www.zerohedge.com/content/guardia-di-finanza-bloomberghandelsblat...

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:17 | Link to Comment Confuchius
Confuchius's picture

@printfaster

Then there's the stashes of "bonds" that conveniently "disappeared" under the WTC demolition efforts.

Why would anyone with an IQ out of the single digits DRIVE thru Chiasso customs, when they could fly a small plane up to Zurich or Liechtenstein with whatever was required. Failing that a small motorboat from Ponte Tresa/Lavena up Lago Lugano to Lugano would find eager Swiss banksters waiting with papers for you to sign...

It ranks in stupidity up there with flying a small plane into any country and clearing customs. Totally unnecessary as well as stupid.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:44 | Link to Comment NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

very sad. pray for these people

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment DavidC
DavidC's picture

Yes, and if we lost 1,000 Dow points now it would only take the market back to late November levels.

DavidC

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

What's the chance Iran could be next?  Or is that too much to hope for?  Is it only western-backed autocracies this time?

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:21 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Fear not. Iran will be next followed by the boogie man and then the monster that lives under your bed. Of course, you'll be raptured long before these things come to pass.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:37 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

+++ BC/AD bullcrap

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:54 | Link to Comment mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

You're right, I'm probably being alarmist!  We should really take that little sociopath with a Napoleonic complex at his word when he says his nuke program is only for energy applications, after all India and Pakistan made similar pledges and never made nuclear weapons.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:20 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

You are absolutely right!!

As the worlds only superpower, largest economy and only relevant moral authority, it is our right to decide.

 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:23 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

The US government has killed far more innocent people than Imadinnerjacket could in your wildest dreams.  But that doesn't concern you. That's what makes you a chickenshit.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 15:46 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

I'm not even passing political judgement; the comment just reeked of someone who has their news explained to them by Hannity.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:24 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Maybe Hannity could catch a ride out of town with Olbermann. Too much to ask?

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:26 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

The two deserve each other.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 23:07 | Link to Comment mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

Great, I'm being lectured by a misogynist and an intellectual giant.  Oh, I'd feel much better having you losers take my side, as if.  Okay, so the US has killed more innocents than Ahmadinejad, but he has potential!  So the US had killed more innocents than Idi Amin, I guess that makes him a paragon of virtue.  So Pol Pot killed fewer innocents than Hitler..........

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 16:22 | Link to Comment Confuchius
Confuchius's picture

@mrgniess

At least the Iranians and the Pakis & the Indians KNOW where all their nukes are.

Your "leaders" seem unable to manage to do even that.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 23:09 | Link to Comment mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

I'm not American so they're not "my" leaders.

And yes, the Paki nukes seem so secure.  I'm sure the Taliban won't get any closer than at least a couple of km's to them.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:47 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

It's too early to ask "who's next?" How Egypt turns out is still in question.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 13:48 | Link to Comment TraderMark
TraderMark's picture

Lebanon looks to be next.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:18 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Yemen is next. It's already in motion.

Yemeni opposition announces open protests
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/yemen/yemeni-opposition-announces-open-pro...

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 14:38 | Link to Comment sushi
sushi's picture

How Egypt turns out is still in question.

 

I think that question may be answered by taking a long hard look at the photograph of the man who resisted arrest and then committed suicide by kicking the side of his head in.

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