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"Passage Of The Healthcare Bill Means The Double-Dip Is Coming" - Market Insight From Permabull Jim Cramer Who Just Turned Bearish

Tyler Durden's picture


Jim Cramer may be in hot water with the SEC over his, and he may be a mouthpiece for the biggest ponzi enabling organization the developed world has ever seen, however, he did have some interesting and spot-on observations on the just passed health care bill. In a nutshell, and for once we agree with Cramer, if futures are not limit down right now, it is because of the same bidding hand that has kept the market going straight up at a 30 degree angle for the past year.

Obamacare Will Topple the Rickety Market By Jim Cramer RealMoney

Either the market doesn't care that the health care bill will pass --  and it will -- or it doesn't think that the proposal will cost that much -- something I think is nuts. Which brings us to a very tenuous crossroad: We have to wonder if this is one of those occasions, like in 2008, where the market doesn't see the coming catastrophe. Or perhaps the market sees any resolution as positive.

I don't. I think when the health care bill passes -- and it will pass, I believe, because Nancy Pelosi has worked diligently behind the  scenes to bend the anti-abortion foes, the key votes, to her will -- the president will get a second wind. That means the whole agenda -- cap-and-trade, Card Check for easier organizing (something that Wal-Mart's (WMT) inability to move even on its dividend boost tells you is coming) and amnesty for immigrants who are currently not citizens -- will quickly come to pass, perhaps even before the election. To pay for these items I see a dramatic increase in ordinary tax rates and perhaps capital gains and dividend tax rates in 2011 either reaching or exceeding those ordinary income rates as this current version of the Democratic Party believes that only rich people own stocks. (That's been a hallmark from Day 1 with this administration.)

Given those hurdles, which include a suicide pact with financial health for small businesses that obviously can't afford health care without risking the capital formation necessary, I think you have to put the double-dip recession back on the table.

Those who have read me here and watch "Mad Money" know that I was out there early thinking that 2010 would not produce a double-dip, despite ample commentary that it would. But if health care reform passes, I am going to revise my thinking -- and you know I think it will -- especially because immigrant amnesty will cause the health care system to be overloaded and our taxes to soar.

The stakes seem so high while the market appears so complacent, perhaps because none of the levies will pass until 2011. To me that's around the corner. It's been slightly more than a year that I have been bullish. That's hanging by a thread this week.

Obamacare cuts that thread. Even if the market doesn't seem to know it.


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Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:16 | 271852 johngaltfla
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That dork thought that Lehman was a solvent company. This is not the trigger for a down turn IMHO. Europe will lead the way. The volume and commitment by the public is too weak for a major bearish turn beyond 8 weeks.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:17 | 271854 CookieMonster
CookieMonster's picture

If Cramer becomes bearish, does that mean the stock market is going to explode to the upside???

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 09:17 | 272115 E pluribus unum
E pluribus unum's picture

Yes. It also means that his hedge fund friends will be buying while everyone else is selling. Cramer is a tool.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 09:57 | 272151 ella
ella's picture

Rumor has it that some call him the CNBC Court Jester.  I don't know if it is true or not. Isn't he or his site the street being investigated?  

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 12:37 | 272327 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I personally think that rule only applies to his long picks.  When permabull Cramer turns bearish, then things are looking pretty bad.

Contrarian indicators only work if you look at the fundamentals, and they agree with the contrarian thesis.  In this case, the fundamentals for the US economy are pointing so far down they look like they are pointing straight up for China.  I wouldn't go long ANYTHING except gold, silver, and physically held commodities at this point.  I might go long dividend producing foreign stocks outside of the west, but the US is cooked.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:19 | 271856 dnarby
dnarby's picture

Ahhh... WTF!?

Based on the CCI indicator (Cramer Contra Indicator), we should now wait a day and go long.

One thing that bothers me is that this is the first thing he's said since he described in detail how to (hypothetically) manipulate stocks that makes sense.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:26 | 271859 Stranger
Stranger's picture

Berkshire bonds now yield less than FedGov bonds.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:34 | 271871 andy55
andy55's picture


Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:06 | 271911 Arm
Arm's picture

Two words: Wells Fargo....



Mon, 03/22/2010 - 13:38 | 272387 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Wells services my mortgage but the beneficiary of my note is the sham corporation known as "MERS."  We're gonna have some fun.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 02:28 | 272011 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Bye bye AAA

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:27 | 271860 Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

Who cares what Cramer says....The Double Dip will have nothing to do with health care.

It all goes back to the banks--wherein the truth lies, and the lies that mark to myth have created.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:38 | 271879 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

the "double dip" is propaganda. we're in a depression.

i don't need zh to tell me what cramer thinks. if i wanted to know that, i could find it on my own.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:51 | 271949 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

This is a ruse to take the gaze away from the banksters balance sheets, the programs that are being cut soon, and Greece/Europe. The health care bill is a scape goat for Cramer. Basically the excuse for them to knock down the market and create the new crisis because they aren't getting what they want.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:05 | 271964 simonyadig
simonyadig's picture

Hunter, I was thinking pretty much the same thing.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:13 | 271969 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

Hey simonyadig, I forgot to mention the financial services bill too! I knew I was forgetting something. Probably more too. 

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:48 | 271989 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

It's all just narrative.  Gives a good idea as to what kind of crumbs the political & financial folks think is needed to draw the general publics attention away from the matters at hand and return them to survivor or survival as the case may be.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 10:43 | 272191 AccreditedEYE
AccreditedEYE's picture

I agree. This is old news anyway, he was ranting about this last week.

Now, when the hell does the market come out from manipulation and start to reflect the current economic condition?

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:03 | 271952 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

It all goes back to the banks--wherein the truth lies, and the lies that mark to myth have created.

And the whole stinking mess that has grown right along with it.  I like to call the whole thing faith based governance.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:28 | 271862 Brokenarrow
Brokenarrow's picture

cnbc says,"health care is good for equities..."


Have you ever seen a bigger bunch of lying whores in your life?

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:56 | 271958 Postal
Postal's picture

Have you ever seen a bigger bunch of lying whores in your life?

Yes, at the club in Atlanta......

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:18 | 271973 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

How could you forget those two clubs up on Capitol Hill?

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:29 | 271864 trillion_dollar...
trillion_dollar_deficit's picture

Most phyrric political victory in the history of western civilization.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:32 | 271869 casino capitalism
casino capitalism's picture

After the virtual annihilation of the middle class, the country needs a dose of socialism to bring it back to equilibrium.  I hate socialism but I think people have to accept that it is needed.  Besides, who can really argue that 35 million people need health insurance.  I agree the health care bill is probably garbage but that's the political system for you.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:49 | 271891 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture


Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:22 | 271926 Cursive
Cursive's picture

Well played, mouse, well played.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:46 | 271946 chindit13
chindit13's picture


Cleared runway 18 for (hard) landing, full stop.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 08:41 | 272090 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

...and I feel fine.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:34 | 271984 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

We need people who are concerned about others, in the good sense.  However, the US political system has an abysmal record when it tries to legislate charity.  The history of public welfare and assistance efforts (read transfer payments) dating back to the 1930s depression prove true the old saying about the road to hell being paved with good intentions.

  - Social security passed to provide a very limited safety net and to quell civil unrest - politicians couldn't resist buying votes by expanding benefits well beyond fiscal prudence.

  - Ditto Medicare/medicaid

  - Look how well Congressional efforts to expand the ranks of US homeowners worked out

I pray that the massive nationalization of healthcare that is healthcare "reform" isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back.  If it isn't, I fear it brings the fiscal breaking point much, much closer.  I've seen nationalized medicine first hand in the form of the military hospital system.  I think that the changes envisioned by the legislation just passed will result in fewer doctors practicing, lower quality care, and government responses to this deterioration that only reinforce the nascent death spiral. True reform is needed without a doubt, but this legislation is a clear violation of a legislator's equivalent of a doctor's hippocratic oath.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 02:36 | 272013 delacroix
delacroix's picture

no problem, we'll just import low paid doctors, from India, and china

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 02:49 | 272015 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

Perhaps.  Perhaps they will find better opportunities in their home countries, just when we need them the most.  There were some interesting comments under the open thread from 3/21 to the effect that the US' ability to attract and/or retain other countries' best and brightest, or the not so best and bright, is waning.  It dovetails with some anecdotal info that I have heard.  Given the current dysfunctional state of large swathes of our public educational system, I am concerned.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 03:25 | 272021 three chord sloth
three chord sloth's picture

But hey... we can still attract a big hunk of Mexico and Central America, and an emboldened Obama will try to ram through amnesty before November's election. Since we no longer assimilate newcomers, they will keep their native lifestyles, including the roughly 50% drop-out rate, so we got that goin' for us...

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 09:08 | 272109 repete
repete's picture

Take a look at "Best Care Anywhere" by Phillip Longman.  This book about vereran's health care cites the VA as having the best statistically verifiable care at the most reasonable price.  What is the reason for this and why are the statistics even available? ELECTRONIC MEDICAL RECORDS!  When electronic medical records would save more than 100,000 lives a year and billions of dollars, they are rarely used because they would shine a spotlight on the shamefully inefficient and fraudulent medical system that exists today. VA electronic medical record software VistA is available for free to countries like Uganda (thats right Uganda) who have seen the benefit of actually tracking things like outcomes, mistakes and accidents, and healthcare associated infections.  They practice what is called "evidence based medicine",  and have kept their costs extremely low compared to conventional medicine.  So does the new health care bill miss the mark?  Only by a million miles.  

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 11:15 | 272223 loki
loki's picture

Evidence Based Medicine -  good luck with that.   Try that *and* Press-Ganey surveys.    No Go.

"I don't care if you think it's a viral infection -- *I* *want* *my* *antibiotic* *NOW*"


Can you sue the government for malpractice if you are unhappy with the outcome of your veteran's health care?  No.

I see physicians stampeding towards the exits...  

How do I know??   I am one.



Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:33 | 271870 Barmaher
Barmaher's picture

To me, the costs are irrelevent considering the amount of money we've already spent bailing out the crooks on Wall Street.  I don't understand how anybody other than an insurance executive can back the idea that citizens who have pre-existing medical conditions should be denied medical coverage unless they are 1. employed and are eligible for group coverage or 2. poor (and unproductive) making them eligible for the Cadillac of all health care plans: Medicaid. 

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 06:16 | 272046 anony
anony's picture


Like we need a 2000 page bill that nobody who is going to pay for it (us) knows what else is in it that has nothing to do with health insurance, including the North Dakota Bank with a Student loan program, WTF.

There were many solutions to the problem you mention and the uninsured. Instead of focusing on those the democrats have just taken over more of our personal choices while saddling a country growing to 500,000,000 people with a back breaking debt.  I hope they choke on it in November and the republicans overturn the whole damned thing and do what is possible instead of this monstrosity. 

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 07:02 | 272062 Catullus
Catullus's picture

I don't understand how anyone but an insurance executive could think that forcing the entire country to purchase a dervative contract on their own health is a good idea. Burn this concept into your head "HEALTH INSURANCE IS NOT HEALTH CARE".  This bill had nothing to do with health care.  It just forced everyone in the country to consume a minimum amount of health INSURANCE. It's like mandating that everyone purchase put options on JPM.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 11:12 | 272220 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

well said

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:35 | 271872 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

Someone posted somewhere else that this was a new dawn for America. I would tend to agree except I see it as a red dawn.

politicians stand around like nothing's wrong while the empire crumbles in front of them.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:35 | 271874 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

If Cramer is bearish, I'd start buying calls tomorrow!

Why didn't anybody care about the costs of say, the war... which did nothing productive to help America?

Now, it's "oh my god!  We're going to give health care to people for 100B a year!"

I don't know that the health care bill was the right answer, but I sure know that the old system was a problem.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:46 | 271889 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture

How about:

- Health care is a good, not a right

- The federal government has no constitutional authority to "give health care to people"

- Unfunded liabilties of the US are between $50T and $100T (depending on who you ask), and this will make it worse by far

- The accounting gimmickery in the bill would make Charles Ponzi blush

- Federal programs like this typically cost about 3x the amount advertised

Think maybe that is why people are concerned.  Agree with the target or the strategy of WoT, at least national defense is a federal responsibility.  You may not agree it is necessary, you may not agree with the strategy or the tactics, you may even think it is a scam, but at least it is arguably in the federal government's purview (after ObL might actually be a bad guy after all).

But that's beside the point.  Really your argument ("The Health Care bill may be bad, but look at what Bush and Cheney did!") is no different than when I punish one of my boys and he immediately points to his brother and tattles.  It may be true, or it may not, but it does not change the situation at hand.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:51 | 271892 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

No, what I'm saying is that health care costs 1 T over ten years.  The WoT cost much more than that.

Health care actually has a benefit for people in America. 
Building schools for Iraqi children didn't do a goddamn thing but put me in debt.

I don't know that the health care bill is the right answer to the problem in the health care system, but nobody should be allowed to raise insurance premiums by 20% in one year, year after year.

All I'm saying is that I'd rather have my money going to help Americans than Iraqis.  Helping Iraqis didn't help me one bit.  At least this way, I won't have to pay 1000 bucks every time I have pink eye or some shit.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:54 | 271895 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture

"At least this way, I won't have to pay 1000 bucks every time I have pink eye or some shit."

You're right, now you will pay $2000 (plus interest on federal debt) every time some other person goes to the ER to treat their pink eye.

Just stay away from the worcestershire sauce.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:56 | 271899 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

Not if they have insurance!

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:59 | 271903 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture

Old habits die hard.  ERs are open all night.  For many it is a matter of convenience more than cost.  I used to work in an ER.  I've seen it first hand

Besides, who do you think will pay for that insurance?

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:07 | 271912 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

Rich people!  (LOL.  I'm just being a smart ass for the sake of being a smart ass)
Health insurance companies, actually.

Still, it's better than nobody paying for it, and the government paying for it through subsidies anyway!

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:23 | 271975 dnarby
dnarby's picture

Oh come one.  It's common knowledge worcestershire sauce is only dangerous if used in IV's during end of life treatment.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:17 | 271919 BS Inc.
BS Inc.'s picture

I don't know that the health care bill is the right answer to the problem in the health care system, but nobody should be allowed to raise insurance premiums by 20% in one year, year after year.


You do realize that there is a very stringent process at the state level to figure out what the allowable premium increase is, right? Companies don't just say, "Oh, let's raise prices by 20%". They have to apply for the increase to the state insurance commissioner and the state legislature can also get involved. Typically, whatever increase there is is simply to maintain the prior year's profit margins, all things being equal. So, what does that tell you? It tells you that costs went up 20% on the service side and/or insurers were forced to cover more items in their policies and that drove up the number of claims they'd have to pay, which justified the premium increase.

Nowhere in that process is "excessive" profiteering being done.


Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:36 | 271939 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

I'll believe that when CEOs aren't making hundreds of millions to billions of dollars to deny my 150 dollar claim!

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:49 | 271948 BS Inc.
BS Inc.'s picture

Look at the largest health insurers revenues then calculate the amount of that revenue the CEO's salary represents. It's less than 1%, I assure you.

As for the facts about the process I detailed, it's of no consequence whether your "believe" them or not. They are simply the facts about the process.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:01 | 271960 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Word up.


Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:56 | 271897 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture

That should have read "You may not agree with the target or the strategy of WoT, at least national defense is a federal responsibility."

My editor has been sacked

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:57 | 271901 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

It's cool dude.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:59 | 271904 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture

Night night

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 10:03 | 272155 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

Have those in charge of sacking the editor been sacked?

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 02:20 | 272007 seventree
seventree's picture

"How about" someone who has paid insurance premiums faithfully for years, then lost their job and had to look for new coverage? If it any time they had a suspicious polyp removed that might have been cancerous, that person will be forever be denied full coverage at any price, from any company, in any state. "How about" the person who develops a life-threatening illness after 20 years of coverage with few or no claims made, then gets stuck with a $100,000 hospital bill when their carrier winkles out a minor inconsistency (unrelated to the illness) in their original application, and decides to invalidate the policy from day 1? That person is now financially ruined, still mortally ill, and again, uninsurable for the rest of their life.

The entire US health insurance industry is a anti-competitive trust that blackballs any policy holder no longer considered a profitable risk, and they share our names and histories so that to be denied by one is to be denied by all. Tea partiers and other right wingnuts chant loudly about "death panels." But dealing out death sentences, with no trial and no appeal, is simply good business practice to these predators.

I don't expect insurance companies to operate at a loss. But I do expect all of them to prove they can provide reliable treatment to responsible people, and in their relentless avarice they have all forgotten why they exist. People in "socialist" countries are sneered at by diehard conservatives, while they in turn are appalled by the pathetic excuse for care that the American people put up with - and pay through the nose for.

I will never forgive Obama for failing to deal honestly with our economic problems, or furthering wars without end, or adopting Bush's self-ordained imperial powers. But if this legislation takes one step toward reigning in the tyranny of what passes for health care in this country then he has my support. If this be socialism then make the most of it.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 08:19 | 272079 BS Inc.
BS Inc.'s picture

The better answer to your points is to set up a market for "pre-existing conditions" insurance, which is basically insurance against not being able to get insurance.

As for the financial aspect of health care, here's a radical concept: Save your money for a "rainy day" in case you get ill.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 06:17 | 272048 anony
anony's picture

Another idiot.  Just do something, eh?

No wonder this country is in the mess it's in because of 'thinkers' like you.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:37 | 271877 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

Also, why do the Republicans draw the line in the sand at getting health care for Americans, or extending unemployment benefits... but yet they had no qualms about spending trillions to go after 20 cameljockeys with boxcutters and to build schools for Iraqis?

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:47 | 271890 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

peace prize barry is just as bad about spending money on wars.  now our troops are in a-stan to protect the opium crop.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:53 | 271894 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

Just as long as they hook me up with some of the crop.  (Opium, not heroin.)  LOL

No, seriously... the war cost a lot more than this health care bill, and you didn't see teabaggers on the steps of the capitol crying about their grandchildren then...

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:01 | 271906 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Is it possible that maybe both the red and blue team are wrong? And what's with the arguing that this waste is good because of other wastes. That is like saying we might as well buy Italian sports cars for everyone because we bailed out all the banks. One does not make the other one okay. All this does is further speed up Americas eventual total bankruptcy.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:10 | 271915 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

Both the dems and the repubs are wrong.

What I'm saying is that some people are quite hypocritical about deficit spending!

It can be argued that this will actually save Americans money in the long run.

(this is off topic, but I know you're a young guy like me)
Also, student loan nationalization saves the Federal government a ton of money too subsidized stafford loans are just a giveaway to the banks.  By bringing those loans in house, the gov will no longer have to pay 6% to the WFCs of the world for taking no risk at all in student loans that are guaranteed by the gov anyway.)

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:10 | 271954 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Student loans are fucking evil!!!!  It's nothing more then legalized and government approved slavery.  They offer loans, and the schools jack up rates to take advantage.  Because school gets more expensive the gov has to give out more loans.  Because hteir are more loans the schools jack up their costs.  This causes more loans to go out...and this process goes on until it's almost impossible to get a quality education without being mired in none dischargeable debt. I have worked like a dog and lived like a monk my whole life and I still had to take on student loans for my first year at law school even with a solid scholarship.  I'm not much in debt but I know many of my friends might as well be debt slaves.  Nothing like 150k in none dischargeable debt and next to no job options.  And I will assure you school will jack up costs because they can.  I was told this by Michael Crow at ASU, he wanted to move costs up purely because other schools were doing so, so he felt he should.  Not because they needed the money but that he wanted to maintain his position in school pricing compared to others.

Uncle Sugar might as well own the loans, needs to tighten those chains on the young people.  Can't wait till the IRS starts going after the poor sons of bitches that can't pay.  Good thing legal scholars have informed me that the 13th amendment does not apply to Uncle Sugar.

And back on topic this will only run up costs.  Our government is incapable of cutting costs.  The chicanery they did with taking in taxes for years and not starting the program till after the next presidential election aught to tell you something about the shit they are pulling.  Though I expect the dollar to be a joke by 2013 anyway(Would like to be wrong though).  At this point all I want is them not to spook the world for a few more years so I can save up and get the hell out of here!  A dollar crash will not be kind.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 03:29 | 272024 three chord sloth
three chord sloth's picture

College costs, meet healthcare costs. You two chat... you've got a lot in common!

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 13:19 | 272364 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

yes, all red and blue produce is purple haze

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:27 | 271980 dnarby
dnarby's picture

What makes you think a bunch of those "teabaggers" weren't against the war?

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 12:39 | 272333 Slewburger
Slewburger's picture

Because the MSM makes sure to point out teabaggers are all middle aged Caucasians... which we all know are pro war (IE anti brown people), pro capitilaism (anti homeless peple), pro limited federal government (domestic terrorists).

This is all part of the balkinization used to create non productive opposition.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 06:20 | 272049 anony
anony's picture

Pure bullshit.  The republicans had some input and could have fashioned a deal that took care of the most difficult problems but the democrats had to appear to deliver a face-power-saver. Now they have it with a liar for a POTUS to claim it will reduce costs.

Sure, and chickens have lips.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:37 | 271878 AxiosAdv
AxiosAdv's picture

I think the Dems have fried any political capital they have and there is no way that anything else gets passed.  Although, the flip side is that they all know they are done in November so they will do whatever they want.

Hopefully, more citizens will be like New Jersey and begin the recall process for their representatives that voted for this "Obam"ination.  

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 09:57 | 272150 Postal
Postal's picture

"Political capital" is irrelevent: If that was an issue they wouldn't have passed this mess in the first place. Now, they're just going to ram through everything else they can before they get voted out. Hey, if you're going to get fired, might as well raid the candy dish.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:38 | 271881 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture

Cramer making sense?  There has to be some cosmic significance there.

Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:38 | 271882 disfiguredskating
disfiguredskating's picture

This video sums up healthcare perfectly:


Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:21 | 271924 andy55
andy55's picture

I feel dumber now, thanks.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:42 | 271883 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

Also, "it's been slightly more than a year that I've been bullish" is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard.  I remember him hitting the bear button on WFC at 9.  And also on BAC at 5.

He's such a fucking liar.  Jim Cramer should be eaten by rabid bears.  I'll stop posting multiple comments now.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:43 | 271885 Rick64
Rick64's picture

 What a logical way to pass a bill. Pass the bill first then sort out the (loopholes for big business) details.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:43 | 271886 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

There is going to be a mad rush after the Easter recess to pass EVERYTHING conceivable. So I look for everything crappy to get passed by Memorial Day. Watch and see.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:06 | 271910 JR
JR's picture

No way.  This is the Democrats' high water mark.  It's over.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:33 | 271936 Bear
Bear's picture

How do you spell naive?

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:21 | 271974 three chord sloth
three chord sloth's picture


They need to pass amnesty quickly and get all the new "citizens" to the voting booth before November. Odds are, these new "citizens" will be from the third world, and as such, have a communitarian based culture (like every failed and/or dying nation) so they will flock to the Democrats.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 10:13 | 272164 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Dianne Feinstein said on 60 Minutes there will be a "right time" to push gun control.  I wonder if they are dumb enough to try it now?  Can you say "revolution"?

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:44 | 271887 Cyan Lite
Cyan Lite's picture

Obamacare passes, time to gun the futures...

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:55 | 271896 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

Futures are in the crapper right now.  Despite going down from 1159 to 1149, somehow CNBC's math says that it's down 6.6.  Gotta love that CNBC math.

Next target of the S&P is at 1220, at the 61.8 fib. 

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:31 | 271935 Spaceman Spiff
Spaceman Spiff's picture

All these losses will be erased magically around 3:30 tomorrow...   Can't have a down day after such historic legislation now, can we?   



Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:41 | 271944 Cyan Lite
Cyan Lite's picture

By 8:30am EST, we'll be in the green.  Guarantee it.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:44 | 271888 andrew123
andrew123's picture

Why should the market be down at all?  Seriously, was anyone really shocked that the Dems passed the Senate bill?

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:56 | 271898 Cookie
Cookie's picture

Cramer, another criminal who should be 'inside' and taking it up the ass from the biggest guy in 'cell block Madoff'.

Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:59 | 271905 ShankyS
ShankyS's picture

Cramer just like Prechter - Just 6 months later LOL. Like a friggin ground hog - great, this means another 3 more months of melt up. The last time this phoney was right was when?

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:03 | 271908 JR
JR's picture

This is bye-bye Democrats. General Election 2010,

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:08 | 271966 Tethys
Tethys's picture

Sorry, but I am now officially off that boat.

There are two tactics now, either one of them will work.  Either distract from the 'health care reform' vote, likely starting Monday, with some serious breaking news.  Or begin the full-court press to convince the people that this is the historic event of our time.  Either approach will be used 24/7 from now until November.  By then the public will be either distracted or supporting health care reform (any pain, aside from taxes on the 'rich', doesn't begin for four years, remember).  Dems may lose a few seats, but this is it for Republicans.  I tend to believe the theory that all future elections will now be Dems and Republicans trying to out-vie each other in promising more and better health care from now till the end of the US.

I used to be convinced it was all the media's fault - if people just knew what was going on, they would demand real change.  But now I think CD and many who have posted on this site are right - people want to be lied to.

I don't know what is in the 'health care reform' bill (aside from the few bits posted around the web).  Neither do any who post here, I would wager.  It is enough for me to see the methods used to pass it, and used to bring the current regime into power.  

In the end, if you believe the state of the economy is truly as it has been represented by the majority of posts here, it is all just re-arranging chairs on the Titanic.

For me, it is now time to focus on what is worth living for.  

Who is John Galt?




Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:17 | 271972 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Most people love the lie, because it's easier then the truth.  Being told what to think is easier then thinking for oneself.  I agree that is will just be kabuki theater between the two parties till the dollar and the nation burns because there is no will to change it.  This happens to all empires.  All empires atrophy and fail.  Many of them with a similar pattern to ours.  The ship cannot be turned even if there was a will to turn it.  All that can be decided now is how hard the crash will be and how many generations it will take for America to stand back up again.

People don't want to hear that though, they want to believe everything will be ok.  Even my sister just says "It's in God's hands" like it magically excuses any kind of personal accountability.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:36 | 271986 Tethys
Tethys's picture

Sage words indeed.  Of all the people I know with whom I have discussed such issues, some much smarter than I, the response is amazingly uniform.  Don't worry about it.  It will be ok.  It's not as bad as it seems.  It's surreal.

I should envy their piece of mind, but I do not.  I guess I just don't have that much faith in human nature, especially if the time comes when the rough edges are exposed and competition for limited resources becomes a matter of course.

But, to quote Mr. Churchill, a fanatic is one who can't change his mind, and won't change the subject.  So I think it is time to stop trying to argue what appears to me to be common sense, ride the flow, and try to keep my head down.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 02:04 | 271999 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Actually I think this will be an alright time for those who plan.  It might not be the drunken high the boom was but for those that prepare and are smart they should be just fine.  We know that since most people don't see the pain coming they will not plan.  Because they will not plan they will be financially ruined.  Those who see the action unfolding and take proactive steps will be far better off comparatively.  Having some real wealth will mean a lot when there is going to be so much wealth destruction happening.  Though you are correct, keep your head down, when people feel wronged they will justify most any crime, particularly against "the rich". 

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 10:13 | 272160 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

There will be...


"...Thousands of dumbfounded dipshits..."


Tool, Aenima


Mon, 03/22/2010 - 13:24 | 272370 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture


Mon, 03/22/2010 - 11:28 | 272238 loki
loki's picture

YES!  Who is John Galt?  

Get me a $- brand cigarette and a new place to live where PRODUCTIVITY is rewarded.   I have never hated politicians as much as I hate them now.   Now that more than 51% of voters are government tit-sucking consumers with nothing to offer, we can expect this just to get worse.

"From all according to his abilities, to all according to his profligate needs, wants, whims, desires --  regardless of the cost"


I vote for a red hot bar of Rearden steel shoved up the ass of every politician who voted for this shit.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 12:37 | 272328 impending doom
impending doom's picture

What happened to "first do no harm"?

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:11 | 271916 b_thunder
b_thunder's picture

Cramer  simply needed an excuse to flip to the side of reason.  "when facts change, i change my opinion. what do you do, sir?" - Cramer lieks to quote Keynes.  It doesn't seem to matter that everything he's mentioned - higher taxes cap&trade, etc takes affect immediately - but Cramer's already bearish.


Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:13 | 271917 OCTOPVS
OCTOPVS's picture

Just a reminder...

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:27 | 271931 AR15AU
AR15AU's picture

MSM will scapegoat the coming crash, we all know that.  Now we know who the scapegoat will be - those opposed to this bill.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:29 | 271932 cocoablini
cocoablini's picture

What Cry-more is talking about is the government machine is going to extract more and more taxes from business and people.  It will be slow, but essentially American business is dead in the water forever. We don't have the chops to invent, create,manufacture and outsmart anyone.

Taxing more is just another way to increase the governemnt take and keep the ponzi moving

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:30 | 271933 Bear
Bear's picture

Futures ESM10 is down .50% last price 1150.75 ... this should be 'limit down' market will turn higher and with pumping by banks on Sun nite and Mon, it will head for the moon and Obama will claim the 'Great Vindication'. With a government takeover of 1/6 of the American economy there should be real fear in the heart of every investor.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:35 | 271937 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

It's like the last purchase someone tries to make with an over the limit credit card, and the clerk is told to cut up the credit card by the bank. 

They think they bought a bunch of new votes, but when the system crashes they will be remembered as the party that broke the camel's back.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:38 | 271940 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

So, did he say anything, or was it just more horns, whistles, and sirens? Sorry... I can't take 'K' on a full (or an empty for that matter) stomach.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:38 | 271942 Tripps
Tripps's picture

Folks, with Healthcare passing, and big banks out of tarp,  and G selling their C shares..I believe the invisible hand will be leaving


cramer is dead right...he was bullish far longer than i was in this rally but if now he is worried, I am too.

this could be as prescient as the obama buy stocks speech was..........

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:23 | 271977 AR15AU
AR15AU's picture

Well, exactly...  sad to say if this stock market is being manipulated, you might as well listen to the manipulator's puppets (Obama, Cramer, etc).  They will move the herd in once their positions are in place.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:42 | 271945 Gen X Gen Y Hybrid
Gen X Gen Y Hybrid's picture

The USA is not paying for any of this....

The rest of the world is.

I work for a global company and every brand we have, every country we are in depends a huge part on the USA sales.  I'm sure my company is not an exception.

The world cannot let the USA fail.  If they do they are only sinking their ship even more.

As an American, I have mixed feelings.  Ethically I think the Gov't spending and blatant PM manipulation is disgusting.  However if there is a method to the madness and my above statement is correct, then my salary (which is my own personal long term insurance policy for my future) should be largely protected.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 13:35 | 272383 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Think about it this way:  Every country you are in depends on PAYMENT from USA sales.  The US is now in default, and on the verge of bankruptcy.  They don't need customers who pass bad checks.  They are better off working less (in this case, consuming the goods they produce themselves).

Understand that a nation is as rich as it's industrial base, not how much paper they own.  With a powerful industrial base, they can take the lead in the next cycle of industrialism/progress, socialism/stagnation, and government overgrowth/collapse. 

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:47 | 271947 fUny1
fUny1's picture

we are in the midst of a hyper deflationary depression that will turn hyper inflationary once all major economic and stock indexes are exposed to the complete shams that they are.

There are many ways out of this but the usual one is war and pestilence.

If people wake up, the only war that will be declared will be against the usurious exploitation pseudo central banking system's beneficiaries.

That is where all the wealth went.

With all the Gold rumored to have been stolen from sovereign states and into the hands of the controllers of the bank and warfare model, the world's budget deficits will be balanced overnight.

A small price to pay instead of having a repeat of Guillotine heads rolling with a barbecue side order of banking/political/war machine minions roasting on $ signed Hades level crucifixes.

What good is having Billions in ultimately worthless paper assets when having it puts a big bull's eye on your back? is a reason they call it an angry mob.

Now do these shortsighted minions really need millions of angry mobs that make Greek protests/riots look like a cakewalk?




Mon, 03/22/2010 - 00:56 | 271956 Bow Tie
Bow Tie's picture

i think we all know it won't take another huge, federal programme like socialised healthcare for the supposed 'double dip' recession to materialise. things like this and the cap & trade nonsense are whatever comes after the 'nail in the coffin'. expect it to save americans money? expect it to come in under budget? expect it to somehow be an improvement on the already malfuctioning system?

laughable - you have to ask yourself why healthcare costs are spiralling out of control and not enough people are covered in the first place. could have it have something to do with the government involvement :0? is this a step in the opposite direction or simply another attempt to regulate into and around existing racketeering? long term it looks worse than ever for americans...



Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:44 | 271990 three chord sloth
three chord sloth's picture

The reason healthcare costs are spiraling out of control is the same reason states/counties/cities are going broke; the same reason Social Security is a pending budget buster even though it pays out near poverty-line checks; the same reason America, Europe, and Japan are simply marking time 'til default: upper and middle class welfare, also known as entitlements or positive rights. They are the destroyers of prosperity.


Mon, 03/22/2010 - 11:32 | 272242 loki
loki's picture

Who is John Galt?

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:02 | 271961 What_Me_Worry
What_Me_Worry's picture

Double dip implies there was a real recovery.

I'm sure Kramer will have all new medical beep props ready to go for Monday's circus act.

If the market doesn't fall from this bombshell, then you know it's bullet-proof.  If only you could short common sense...

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:06 | 271965 Bow Tie
Bow Tie's picture

How about single dip depression (and the legend of the green shoots)...

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:47 | 271991 Assetman
Assetman's picture

While one can presume that the Heathcare bill is well intended, unfortunately it guarantees that government spending continues on its out of control path.

Of course, we will have a "cover" for these costs in the form of a very poorly timed increase in taxes during a very tenuous state of economic recovery. 

Consumers will get squeezed even more, as even more deductions for semi-nationalized healthcare will result in even less take home pay.

If those who weren't looking for Congssional turnover now, should be feeling the impact on their wallets soon enough.  I sense a lot of falling on swords today.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:51 | 271992 JR
JR's picture

Mao’s Great Leap Forward into Communist socialism caused upwards of 40 million Chinese to starve to death; how many dreams, how many hardships, will Obama’s Great Leap Forward cost Americans, particularly among her achievers?

As America begins to implement Obama Socialized Medicine under Democrat Health Care Rationer Ezekiel Emanuel, critical agrument over feeding tubes or multithousand dollar medical measures to be used to keep severely ill or terminal patients alive will no longer be a relevant argument.  That medical decision will no longer be a personal decision, it will be a State decision. Dr Emanuel, brother of Rahm, is not a difficult man to understand.  He clearly states that the State should not pay expensive medical costs for individuals with terminal illnesses, aging people, infants, or people who are no longer useful to society…

He clearly believes that the State must make these decisions; not insurance companies and certainly not the individuals themselves.  His advice and blueprint for Obama Healthcare identifies his purpose. His brand of bioethics begins the selection of  withholding medical treatment from individuals, not only on age or status of illness,  but on their worth as citizens.  Or, to put it more simply, on who deserves to live.  Dr. Emanuel makes it crystal clear: read the words he’s written.  In the final analysis who now will make these end-of-life decisions for Americans?  Well, if no one else is willing,  I guess he, White House hammer brother Rahm,  or Hollywood CEO hammer brother Ari, will have to do it.

Here is a glimpse of Dr. Emanuel’s views from an August 2009 WSJ article by Betsy McCaughey,

Dr. Emanuel argues that to make such decisions [whose life is worth saving], the focus cannot be only on the worth of the individual. He proposes adding the communitarian perspective to ensure that medical resources will be allocated in a way that keeps society going: ‘Substantively, it suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity—those that ensure healthy future generations, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations—are to be socially guaranteed as basic. Covering services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic, and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.’" (Hastings Center Report, November-December, 1996)

The bioethicist  also puts the youngest at the back of the line: "Adolescents have received substantial education and parental care, investments that will be wasted without a complete life…” (, Jan. 31, 2009).

Dr. Emanuel’s Reaper Curve gives the “probablility “of receiving “allocation of scare medical interventions” at birth to 10 years of age at minimum, rising to maximum at 25 years of age, and declining thereafter, with a parabolic decline beginning after age 52, back to minimum interventions thereafter.  Older people, you see, are no longer useful to the State: they cost more than they produce.

The Link below includes the graph of Dr. Emanuel’s Reaper Curve:

Obama’s political curse upon America is nothing less than coercive egalitarianism. Socialism.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 02:13 | 272004 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Well we all know how the Great Leap Forward worked out to don't we?  Though with deciding who lives and who dies reminds me more of a Brzezinski favorite Pol Pot.  Hmmm doesn't Big O have a connection to Brzezinski? Why am I thinking Holiday in Cambodia?

Remember you'll work harder with a gun in your back.


Mon, 03/22/2010 - 02:40 | 272012 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

Great WSJ article, especially the 2nd paragraph from the end.  Not sure how I missed that one when it first appeared.  This is an administration that ultmately wants the Fed. gov't to control all of the economy, not just a "small" portion of it.  Another domino falls. 

Was toying for a while with the idea of getting more involved in efforts to spread the news re unsustainable fiscal policies at the grass roots level, and desirability of scaling back the current scope and size of the fed gov't.  Had some reservations about one group that was a very good fit on many fronts, but not on others.  I think that my reservations just took a back seat - I'm contacting them tomorrow.  The time for words has past, the time for real involvement is now.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 01:55 | 271995 Bear
Bear's picture

The Market has gone straight up in the last month while the health care issue has gone from 'no way' to 'all the way'. If this made any difference at all then the Market would have to go back to 1050, just to get back to 'no way' ... it is manipulation, no other explanation ... ESM10 at 1051 ... this is impossible without props. And with props, it can mashup to the moon.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 02:00 | 271997 JR
JR's picture

Video: Gerald Celente: Crash of 2010 Is Looming

Gerald Celente comments on Chris Dodd’s financial regulation bill. He also discusses trade wars with China and gives advice to President Obama on the importance of having a productive capacity.

The 1,336-page Senate bill to regulate the financial system grants the Federal Reserve, the culprit behind the panic of 2008, more power. “It’s not even the fox watching the chicken coop – it’s the fox watching other foxes,” says Celente. “It’s like putting Bugsy Siegel or Al Capone in charge of law enforcement.”

The Trends forecaster believes his prediction for the crash of 2010 is going to happen, as the bill will not make a bit of difference in preventing it. “All the stimulus money from around the world is drying up,” says Celente. “At some point the stimulus game runs out and the crash happens.”

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 04:46 | 272029 Bear
Bear's picture

I agree the end will come fast and hard ... but I don't think they can afford to allow the Market to plunge right after the 'historic' health care vote ... it would look like this was a bad idea and people would not 'feel' good.

They will allow this to go south when 'They' can gain from it or its fallout and it is not 'They' who precipitated it. This is truly a pathetic game. We have to take back America. Get involved!

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 02:13 | 272003 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Lets look at the bright side here,

the way the gov't works, it will probably take 20 to 25 million people to run healthcare and therefore unemployment soon to be 0%

DOW 36,000 by years end..

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 02:22 | 272008 Oppressed In Ca...
Oppressed In California's picture

Relax, it's all an infrastructure program - The Freeway to Serfdom.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 04:47 | 272030 Bear
Bear's picture

More to the point: The Rapid Transit Light Rail to Serfdom

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 06:29 | 272050 docj
docj's picture

So Mad Cramer is now bearish?  There is simply nothing ObamaCare can't do!

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 06:53 | 272059 Mick C Pitlick
Mick C Pitlick's picture

Credit contraction, ZIRP reflation, recession, pending defaults in muni and sovereign debt, pension insolvency, RRE/CRE defaults, and now, key industry nationalization. Can Prechter's P3 be far way?

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 07:44 | 272068 Alex Lionson
Alex Lionson's picture

It is just another step in the direction of introducing an additional letter "S" to the abbreviation "USA". It soon will be read the "USSA" - United Socialist States of America. Welcome to the new Soviet reality.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 08:06 | 272074 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

An excellent example of the mire of government “regulation” in which we are suspended today comes
from a recent Bloomberg story on the current political war in the US Congress over Mr Obama’s “health
bill”. It comes from the Chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, Mr Kent Conrad. Mr Conrad
pointed out that every time there is a change of any sort in the bill, the CBO (Congressional Budget
Office) has to run the numbers though a complicated computer model again. Why? To quote Mr Conrad:
“...because the interactive effects are more than a human mind can calculate.”

Primitive societies had their witchdoctors, shamans and soothsayers, all of whom professed to see things
which “are more than the human mind can calculate”. Their function was to keep the “masses” under
control by formulating rules “in the public interest”. Members of the “public” who broke their rules very
quickly found out that it was NOT in their interest to do so. We who live in modern times no longer have
to take these people seriously. Their function has been usurped - by the “lawmakers”.

Fifty years ago, or even twenty years ago, reporting of the doings in any major national capital city
described those involved as being members of Congress or elected representatives or even politicians.
Today, peruse the headlines on any major internet or printed media reporting on government deliberations
and you will continually come across the term “lawmakers”.

This is how interventionism works and how it has always worked. First you pass a “law”. Then, you
write the “user manual” which consists of whole libraries full of rules, regulation and red tape. All of this
gives rise to bigger existing or even brand new government “departments” stuffed with legions of
bureaucrats whose job is to enforce the “law” which the lawmakers have passed.

If the cost of all this was just the salaries of the bureaucrats and the offices they work in, it would be bad
enough. But government regulation and intervention creates no new wealth, it merely hampers those who
would otherwise create it while consuming more and more of the dwindling amount that is still available.

from "The Privateer - Number 650"

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 08:12 | 272077 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

Jim gets this part wrong:

"current version of the Democratic Party believes that only rich people own stocks"


Then why the full-blow market manipulation over the past 13mths? What, to simply enrich the rich and make the gap even larger? I doubt it....

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 08:24 | 272083 bingaling
bingaling's picture

IMO - This is Cramer's way of saying to SEC  "fuck me?" NO!Fuck you!"- He has been a bullhorn of support for this crap market and now when they come for him(Being they won't touch bigger fish they could easily fry) he starts telling the truth while he still can to get thenm to back off . I figure in a week we will see him fired and him suing CNBC for breach of contract .

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 08:52 | 272101 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

From your lips to God's ears, Amen.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 08:49 | 272096 TheMacroView
TheMacroView's picture

The point of the manipulation over the past 13 months is to give the false appearance of recovery.....and Cramer for once is absolutely right....

The Macro View

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 09:58 | 272146 Reflexivity
Reflexivity's picture

... immigrant amnesty will cause the health care system to be overloaded and our taxes to soar.

The problem with new public healthcare reform is that it has an asymmetric cost/benefit.

Many people may not know that a lot of hospitals give away free care to the sick and uninsured.  In many cases, they get free perscription drugs as well.  It's just not advertised! Many public hospitals are prevented, by law, from turning down the sick.  So, the cost of this indigent care is spread to taxpayers and other paid-in-full customers already without any health care reforms.

Obamacare helps many people in need for sure (which depending on the way you look at it can be a good thing or a bad thing).  However, the point is that we already have socialized medicine for people who cannot pay and who also are not eligible for bankruptcy.  Those who have health insurance and have decent jobs and assets are already paying for this socialized medicine in the form of increased health insurance rates and taxes--because public hospitals already treat the uninsured (and since they cannot make a claim via bankruptcy on these people because they don't own anything, the hospital eats the cost.)

I believe the free health insurance cost/benefit is asymmetric because it only really helps those on the border between poverty and prosperity (i.e. people who are uninsured, but who have assets the bankruptcy court can take away to pay creditors).  People below the fold get free basic healthcare, as decribed previously, and the people above the fold have insurance so they're covered.

Immigrant amnesty or not, the healthcare system is already overloaded and causing taxes and health insurance rates to climb.  Many people who are supposedly going to be helped by free health insurance are already getting free health care--it's just being done under the radar.

It brings up the debate as to whether we should make socialized medicine 'official' with the passing of Obamacare or just leave it 'unoffical'.  Either way, we already have socialized medicine and most people don't realize it.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 10:43 | 272192 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Cap and Trade is next, and it also will be principally a tax increase designed to support the Treasury market, as well as an incredible enrichment boondoggle for Goldman et al.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 11:33 | 272244 hognutz
hognutz's picture

Prepare yourselves well! Think basics....

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 14:46 | 272456 augmister
augmister's picture

By George, you are the voice of truth!   Made plans for the new greenhouse and storage shed, started my seeds for the coming planting, removed FRN's from my foreign owned Spanish bank, cleaned my pistols and muskets and made all due processes for building ammunition.   The time for talk and argument are well past.  Nice 230+ year run and you did warn us what would happen if vigilance wained.   The sun has set and the dark times are upon us.   We are on our own.   This will not end well.   

In my state, it is easier to loose one of our Congressman by throwing away the 2010 Census form, than it is to vote them out of office.....   As Myer Lansky said to Michael Corleone in the "Godfather"..."so Michael, what does that tell you?"

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 12:15 | 272291 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Your gubmint wants to own you, you worker, you...

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 13:03 | 272347 lindonmarc
lindonmarc's picture

Cramer, you know nothing.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 13:35 | 272382 Apocalypse Now
Apocalypse Now's picture

Ready for the shabby naked truth stripped of sound bites, I'll share a few facts:

This bill will help health insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies mandate that another 30 million must become customers, and Obama negotiated back room deals with them.  After Goldman Sachs and other financial companies, the health care industry was Obama's second largest campaign contributor. When Scott Brown won in M.A. these public stocks dropped the next day.  Today, with the passage of the bill, they are all up.

The bill expanded the power of the IRS, what does that have to do with health care?  Prison if they can't pay for medical care?  Perhaps this is the solution to all the tent cities.

As the bill currently stands, it would require taxing people that believe abortion is murder and having them pay for it regardless of their beliefs.  Obama has already broken campaign promises, so I am not sure if the language will be changed.

Most liberties are stolen under the guise of providing safety, a trade of safety for liberty and you know what Benjamin Franklin said about that.  If the bankers own the politicians, and the politicians now own health care and your body, then congratulations to the bankers as they now own your body.

Your body is the fundamental basis of property rights.  My biggest concern about government involvement relates to using the population as guinea pigs for corporate pharmaceutical companies.  Look up the Tuskegee incident when people were injected with STDs. Governments have also been involved in sterlizing populations without consent to lower population growth.  Personally, I avoid soy, flouride, mercury, and genetically modified foods.

Government is not your mother or your father or your uncle despite the poster.  Please, somebody tell me what the latest world wide swine flu terror propaganda campaign (terror by definition) was about.  We had simultaneous global fear mongering hype on every station telling people to get their vaccine, WHO announced a pandemic despite NO PANDEMIC, and they are pushing to mandate vaccines which contain mercury and squaline.  Studies are starting to show connections between nerve diseases and vaccines with these preservatives and extenders. I am willing to bet this secret health care bill is in alignment of a global agenda on health care (WHO).  All event management.

Why did the german army receive swine flu vaccines without these questionable additives, while they pump our children full of them?  Many psychopathic power obsessed individuals run for public office, which is the reason you shouldn't just blindly trust a government.  Are they consistent with their campaign promises? Are they making decisions for the benefit of themselves, corporations, or the people? You have to evaluate each politician and answer these questions before blindly trusting in the government.

Many "reforms" are simply give aways to corporations or a power grab for more control while they produce sound bites to make the masses think that they are acting on their behalf.  They just rahmed a 2000 page bill through having created it behind closed doors, and we do not know the full impact.  What did we "win", what did we "lose"?

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 13:45 | 272395 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Your body is the fundamental basis of property rights.

Libertarianism begins with the radical notion that you own yourself.  Everything else flows from that: if you own yourself you own what you do as well as what you don't do, etc.  Libertarians favor voluntary exchange for this reason.  If exchange is forced, then someone else owns you.  This is also the reason why libertarians obsess about property rights.  I have rights just because I am here.   Nothing else is required.  Government doesn't give me rights, nor grant them to me.  Government exists to protect the natural rights that I have just because I am here.

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 16:31 | 272618 Blithering ORSA
Blithering ORSA's picture

When I find myself tempted to agree with an idiot like Cramer, I grow afraid to look to closely in the mirror. 

Mon, 03/22/2010 - 16:58 | 272633 BlackBeard
BlackBeard's picture

IBB pharma ETF looking very happy today.  As it skyrockets past 92, it waves to the Bossman of the moment "Thanks Barry! your check's in the mail!"

Wed, 04/14/2010 - 07:57 | 299694 mark456
mark456's picture

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