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Paul Farrell Expects No Recovery Until The End Of Obama's Second Term... IF He Gets Reelected
Paul Farrell's take on Jeremy Grantham's recent essay Seven Lean Years (previously posted on Zero Hedge) is amusing in that his conclusion is that should Obama get reelected, his entire tenure will have been occupied by fixing the problems of a 30 year credit bubble, and if anything end up with the worst rating of all time, as the citizens' anger is focused on him as the one source of all evil. "Add seven years to the handoff from Bush to Obama in early 2009 and you get no recovery till 2016. Get it? No recovery till the end of Obama's second term, assuming he's reelected -- a big if." Also, Farrell pisses all over the recent catastrophic Geithner NYT oped essay, which praised the imminent recovery which merely turned out to be the grand entrance into the double dip: "In his recent newsletter, "Seven Lean Years Revisited," Grantham tells
us why expecting a summer of recovery was unrealistic, why America must
prepare for a long recovery. Grantham details 10 reasons: "The negatives
that are likely to hamper the global developed economy." Sorry, but
this recovery will take till 2016."
For those who have not had a chance to read the original Grantham writings, here is Farrell's attempt to convince you that Grantham is spot on:
But should you believe Grantham? Yes. First: Like Joseph, Grantham's earlier forecasts were dead on. About two years before Wall Street's 2008 meltdown Grantham saw: "The First Truly Global Bubble: From Indian antiquities to modern Chinese art; from land in Panama to Mayfair; from forestry, infrastructure, and the junkiest bonds to mundane blue chips; it's bubble time. ... The bursting of the bubble will be across all countries and all assets ... no similar global event has occurred before."
Second: The Motley Fools' Matt Argersinger went back to the dot-com crash of 2000: Grantham "looked out 10 years and predicted the S&P 500 would underperform cash." Bull's-eye: The S&P 500 peaked at 11,722; it's now around 10,000. Factor in inflation: Wall Street's lost 20% of your retirement since 2000. Yes, Wall Street's a big loser.
Third: What's ahead for the seven lean years? Wall Street will keep losing. Argersinger: "Grantham predicts below-average economic growth, anemic corporate-profit margins, and other severe obstacles for the stock market. Over the next seven years ... U.S. stocks as a group will deliver annualized real returns between 1.1% and 2.9%. That's less than you might get putting your money in a CD."
Also, for those who believe they stand to win something in the Wall Street casino, think again:
Warning: You'd be a fool to trust your money with Wall Street during the seven lean years till 2016. Another 20% will vanish.
Fourth: Why will Wall Street kill the recovery, keep driving us deeper into a ditch till 2016? Last year Grantham asked: "Why is it that several dozen people saw this crisis coming for years? It seemed so inevitable and so merciless, and yet the bosses of Merrill Lynch and Citi, even Treasury Secretary [Henry] Paulson and Fed Chairman [Ben] Bernanke, none of them seemed to see it coming." The Pharaoh listened to Joseph. Our leaders are deaf.
Yet for all those still too busy to read the collected thoughts of Jeremy, here is the Cliff notes version, courtesy of Farrell:
Here's my Reader's Digest version of Grantham's 10 handicaps that will "hamper the global developed economy, drag it out for seven lean years," forcing Americans into a painfully long, game-changing period of austerity and civil unrest. You can read his original at GMO.com:
1. Too much consumer debt; increased savings, spending drops
"We've stopped adding consumer debt, but the improvement is minimal. It would take at least seven years of steady reduction to reach a more normal level. Anything more rapid than that would make it nearly impossible for the economy to grow. More stimulus adds government debt, already a problem. But debt reduction in a fragile economy runs the risk of causing a severe economic decline. This dilemma may prove to be the central economic policy choice of our time. Not an easy choice. And no way that this process will be pleasant or quick."
2. Banks off-loaded trillions of toxic debt, increasing federal debt
"The most frightening aspect of the seven-lean-year scenario is that dangerously excessive financial system debt was moved across, with additions, to become dangerously excessive government debt, with levels of debt-to-GDP not seen outside wartime. The cure seems more like a stay of execution."
3. Stimulus failing, housing crashed, no appreciation, confidence lost
"The artificial lift to consumers' confidence from steadily rising house prices is long gone, unlikely to return soon, reducing our confidence in the nest eggs we thought we could count on for retirement. Further house-prices declines are more than a 50/50 bet. No more shot in the arm from construction. Stock prices are stagnant. These changed attitudes will last for years."
4. Banks undercapitalized, overleveraged; more trouble ahead
"Wall Street may have passed its point of maximum stress, but very bad things may lie ahead in Europe. Leverage and the chances of further write-downs leave banks undercapitalized, reluctant to lend. Unhealthy growth in America's GDP caused by previous rapid increases in the size of the financial sector has also disappeared, hopefully will stay gone."
5. State/local governments squeezed, tax revenues down 30%
"Runaway costs: average salaries and pensions went far above private sector in 15 years, now run into the brick wall of reduced taxes. Real estate taxes are down over 30%, unlikely to bounce back soon. The legal need to stay balanced means painful cost-cutting, putting pressure on an economy with few stimulus options left. A double dip would make it worse."
6. High unemployment; few tricks left to stimulate jobs
"Unemployment is high, suffering from the loss of kickers related to asset bubbles. The economy appears to have an oddly hard time producing enough jobs to get ahead of the natural yearly increases in the work force. Consumer confidence and corporate investing suffer."
7. America's trade imbalances are killing the dollar, our economy
"America must stop running large trade imbalances, they destabilize the economy. In a world growing nervous about the quality of sovereign debt, these debt levels have exploded. Adding new foreign debts adds risk and doubts to the system, threatening the dollar. Just as adding surpluses threatens the Chinese. The trick, though, is to reduce these imbalances so that the process does not reduce global growth. Rebalancing will not be quick, easy, or painless."
8. European governments crashing; incompetent management
"Europe suffers from incompetent management. Spain, Greece, Portugal, Ireland, and Italy allowed local competitiveness of manufactured goods to become 20% or more uncompetitive with Germany. The banking crisis was not the problem, so it'll never be easy to solve with a fixed currency. Unfortunately, Europe's problems are now part of America's seven lean years, guaranteeing slower than normal GDP growth and a long workout period."
9. Global loss of confidence in all currencies, including the dollar
"Rising levels of sovereign debt and problems facing the euro bloc and Japan are creating a loss of confidence in faith-based currencies. The world economy is a fragile system that will increasingly limit governments' choices in dealing with low growth and excessive credit."
10. Aging populations; rising Medicare, Social Security costs
"Possibly most important of all, widespread overcommitments to pensions and health benefits is a long-term problem overlapping with the seven-year workout, making the 'seven lean years' even tougher. Developed nations are aging, need more medical attention. Treatment costs are increasing, and are hard to limit or ration. No choice, hunker down, wait for a crisis."
Bottom line: America's facing seven lean years, a long, game-changing, painful recovery till 2016. But let's end on that positive note the Motley Fool's Argersinger promises: In spite of the dark forecast, there's a "silver lining, the saving grace Grantham calls it. The stock market might turn out to be a loser, but that won't be the case for 'high-quality' U.S. stocks. Grantham thinks elite stocks are poised to return as much as 10% a year or better."
Argersinger put it this way: "Grantham doesn't detail what he means, but I think it's safe to assume he's talking about large companies that have strong balance sheets, sustainable competitive advantages, stable or growing profit margins, and opportunities for growth," even in "seven lean years."
He picks seven stocks "that might make Grantham's cut." All are based on "the following criteria: Large-cap stock, at least $20 billion in market size; high profitability, an average operating margin of 15% or higher over the past five years; strong balance sheet, a debt-to-equity ratio of less than 50%; a dividend, not necessarily for yield but as a measure of financial strength." Solid picking criteria.
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re-elected? the credibility of this article just went into the crapper. seriously...is America so stupid to do this one more time? if so...im leaving the US
Well, in all fairness, the libbies complained about W in the same way regarding his 2nd term.. but what these same libbies couldn't do is to properly use a voting machine in 2004. So, don't underestimate the stupidity factor again...
2006 was an economic boom time, things were great. The libbies couldn't really complain until things went South well after the reelection.
How long did it take for the Roman Empire to recover?
EXACTLY hedgeless! +1,000 for the brainy post this morning! Total implosions do not recover! We have no economy! We dont make a damn thing! 75% Borrow to Consume economic model is dead and its all we had! Next up- mass population reduction...it is and always has been their only answer.
Now Im seeing the 'politics' bickering posts, and thats exactly where they want the sheeple to be! Diverted and bickering about their demican republicrat bullshit. So sick of it all, such a stupid country it deserves all that will happen to it!
The USA is the largest manufacturer in the world. It's not that we don't produce anything, it's that we consume vastly more than we produce because the government subsidizes credit, and the rest of the world subsidizes the government.
Actually we are third or fourth in exports, but you are right we consume and import way too much.
Mill,
The reason we import too much, is because the GLOBALISTS SOB's, destroyed our Mfg capabilities.Until, and unless we rebuild our blue collar industries(which will never be allowed),put solid tariffs in place to make Americans buy American....forget it,SOL.
Also, WTH do WE export?..........things the rest of the World needs or wants.
Not US.
Longer than the British Empire because they were less leveraged.
nice h e e l s babe. I want mine in glass.
things are really just back to normal....and we think its a collapse. because the altitude back to earth was so high. not 2006, try 2001 peak out.
here is where survival of the fittest may help reduce stupidity. imo, every seasoned politician will gun for the oval office. i am convinced the senior polity is glad obi one ate the [ i am HOOVER] political sandwhich, shrimp, or whatever he eats. now the big dogs will come out swinging to grab the potential FDR, Lincoln, Jefferson, G Washington slot. i doubt Hillary even makes it into the finals. they are also rans.
the caliber of men like Newt, Romney, etc. will compete.
Glen Beck is hooking his car to the Romney train to sell more books exploiting a viable opportunity to make some decent money and make an impact in society. working to get his place in heaven, or whatever he thinks happens to him in the hot hot hot afterlife.
Romney has no chance in Hell to be elected.
Until the stable stalls shithouse( D.C.)is cleaned out, there is no hope,none.
I hate no one, but when I see the Pols arguing, and making insane comments, like 2yr olds, it makes me want to vomit.
They think they are royalty, Rangel, that useless SOB, been there for life.Just a damned crook, see's everyone else's Sins but his own.Frackening Hypocrite.
Using every card in the book to stay.Should have been gone 20yrs ago.
Term limits were the answer, too late now.
When you have multi-millionaires encamped in the halls of power, the Citizen Servant is DOA.
Stupidity? Oh, you must mean properly programming the software in the Diebold voting machines to make certain that only certain votes (in 2004, only Republican votes ) are counted (Cuyuhoga County)!
Use a mail in ballot and pray that someone honest opens it and counts it. Electronic voting machines are useless.
Trundle,
DO not even go there...........
The Dead in Dem ChiTown have been voting for decades.
Holding the Polls open for minority voters AFTER official close.
Counting prison ballots, of felons, counting ballots found in a frigging trunk of a car.(should have been thrown out, no questions asked).
Every election when the Dems are in control, the US Military, miraculously doesn't get their ballots in time, IF at all.(Clinton did it, and so did Obammy).
Already starting the same shit for November!!.
Denying one the right to vote, or illegally allowing them to, should be a prison offense............5yr automatic.
Both are guilty, but the numbers and corruption is WAY in favor of the Socialists.
Always count on the President being re-elected. 1992, 1980, 1932, 1912...that was it for the 20th century in sitting Presidents being defeated.
Always count on the President being re-elected. 1992, 1980, 1932, 1912...that was it for the 20th century in sitting Presidents being defeated.
fat tony, the american sheeple definitely are that stupid. Only problem with leaving is 1) Where to? 2) Dont really have the resources to set up in some foreign land, and who says its any better there anyway? I just say the human experiment has failed, really its too stupid to evolve, or even think for itself for that matter.
i need a CADDY†
I tend to agree, the human evolution has stopped dead in it's tracks, we need a major upheaval to start moving again, WW3? or an asteroid should do the trick, and the sooner the better
Az.
There is not, never has been any Human Evolution........
Want proof...just look at History.
Been the same for 6000yrs.
My first thoughts also (although this doesn't impact the article for me).
But the dems have the right to commit the same stupidity, as the reps who relected Bush II.
In my opinion a lot more politicians -actually most of them- should never get reelected into any position again.
A bummer recovery, where the trip back up is no better than the trip down.
Tell you what, if US voters elect President Palin next time around, there will be no recovery for the next 100 years!
Palin isn't the least bit popular in the U.S. Romney will probably get the ticket.
Romney! Now there is one of nature's natural nobelmen. NFW
and we'll still be fucked...yay!!
I'm sure Palin wouldn't be dumb enough to think that printing money is the way to solve America's economic problems, unlike some Harvard grad in office.
Palin is strongly supported by Lynn Forrester de Rothschild, who is Evelyn's wife, y'know the Rothschilds of Federal Reserve Fame.
I hear they like to print money.
+100 trillion
'Palin wouldn't be dumb enough to think' - she thinks ??? wow
You don't read this website enough. Stop doing keyword searches on Obama or Palin. Here's a quote from a recent article on ZH:
"America has been captured by a financial class that makes no distinction between parties. These barbarians have sucked the life out of a once productive nation by raping and pillaging with impunity while enriching only them. They live in 20,000 square foot $10 million mansions in Greenwich, CT and in $3 million dollar penthouses on Central Park West. These are the robber barons that represent the Age of Mammon." --Jim Quinn
Instead, why don't you and the rest of you political trolls start "googling" keywords like Rothschild and its agents (Rockefeller, Goldman Sachs), Central Bank, Jeckyll Island, Federal Reserve, Alexander Hamilton, Freemasonry, false flag events, the link between the assassinations of Lincoln and Kennedy, the MIC, the pharmaceutical industry, and start learning about the true history of the Rothschild Central Banking cancer that has taken over the world for the past 100+ years and that Thomas Jefferson had warned about and fought against!
Where's Cheeky Bastard to lay the smackdown when you need him? Is he still on vacation that those Europeans seem to have too much of? Quality of life is sooo overrated! OK, I'm just jealous.
Where's Cheeky Bastard to lay the smackdown when you need him?
OK, I'm just jealous. me 2.
he must of had his hands free from the senorita's to have some conversations yesterday. nice to read. probably in his second family home in zadar croatia. nice life cheeks, glad you beat that bad ass incurable disease. forgot what it was, cheeks to beat, testicles enlargement from to much asia woman massaging?
I love foreigners who tell me how to vote. Mind if I pick your government, Leo?
Are you kidding me? In case you never noticed, the US gvt has had a say in who governs many foreign nations. So excuse me if I opine on Ms. Palin and how reckless and destructive the whole US political scene has become. Divide & conquer is all these people care about.
"the US gvt has had a say in who governs many foreign nations" Really? Iraq and Afghanistan is a "couple", not "many"... There are plenty of dictators, communists, socialists, and European/Latin/Asian/African leaders that would disagree with you.
Get a beer Homer.
South America
Central America
etc. etc.
Read: Confessions of an Economic Hitman...John Perkins...unfortunately, Leo is right this time.
I'm all for the US staying out of other countries politics, and for them staying out of ours.
Leo,
Let's be reasonable.
How in the hell could she be any worse?..........everone thinks GWII was a moron, now we have another moron, and a friggi Marxist,Socialist, Globalist to boot.
The programs HIS tenure has instituted has put us so far into debt, their is no ladder long enough to crawl out.
GW helped, but this SOB, is the worst president, and has the worst cabinet, and Czars, of any in my LONG lifetime.
And, their not thru yet..........how, I mean really how can it get any worse?(as far as treasonous leaders?).
Well if you pick a "socialist" one, then you've already picked it. I'm sure he'll advocate an HST for the US, too.
Wrong, Leo. If there is also a free enterprise Congress we could see a boom in 2014. Oil drilling, business feels confident to invest in jobs. Wall Street gets cleaned up the way the Arctic Fox sent GOP big shots to jail in Alaska. The big question is the debt. Does Obama default Treasury debt or pass it on to the Thrilla from Wasilla? The Loser in Chief's spending spree puts a monkey wrench in everything. Just hearing about the free Obama phone for welfare people, 70 free minutes a month. How's that for a new entitlement?
OMG, I thought you were joking about the phone.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp
It was passed by the Dem Congress just before Obama's election so Snopes declines to call it an "Obama phone". Otherwise, ...just wow...
Define a free enterprise Congress. I haven't seen one, ever.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people bought into the "Palin is a bimbo" hatchetjob that the left perpetrated.
Seriously? We are going to talk about Palin's intelligence with a President that doesn't know how many states we have, and can't form a coherent sentence without his teleprompter? We won't even touch on Biden.
I sometimes get the eerie sensation that ZH itself is a CIA experiment and/or plant. Every day now, Tyler posts up a political story that, sure enough, brings out all the partisan emotions.
What this proves is that even amongst a minuscule percentage of the total population, in an environment composed of the brightest people & incubator of radical ideas, like Pavlov's dogs, people simply cannot resist the political bait.
Palin is a dope? Or is that Bush? Barry can't speak a coherent thought without his 'prompter? Are we in our current predicament due to the last 2 years, 10 years, or 30 years? Or since 1913? Or before, going all the way back to the BoE?
I mean, if these comments in anyway representative of the best we can do, then we are truly fucked. What these types of discussions & reactions tell someone looking at the panorama from a distant plane is this: Get.Out.Now.
Geez, the power-elite must look at all us dumb chumps as one watches chimps at the zoo fling shit at each other. No wonder they hate us and wish us dead.
This isn't about partisan shit flinging, it is a comment to Leo's post. Leo felt the need to drag out the popular mainstream media/leftist talking points on Palin and I am tired of it. I think it's fine to disagree with Palin's opinions, policies, etc but can we please give the whole "SNL said shes dumb so she must be!" thing a rest?
Frankly it is disgusting how far the media has gone in taking an active role in politics, and more than that, it should concern people. The media should not be a propaganda mouthpiece for the Government, they should be helping to keep the Government honest.
Thereby proving my point. If you actually care about the artificial left/right, liberal/conservative paradigm, then you are actually missing the real bifurcation: the power-elite vs everyone else.
If you had been hanging around ZH for any length of time, you would know (a) Leo is a troll; and (b) his job is to incite reaction. Reverse the situation ie change the characters (which I expect at any time), and he'll get the same type of reaction from someone else on the so-called "political spectrum".
What you seem to fail to realize is that these points-counterpoints are nothing but fodder for the glass menagerie. There is only one truth: true wealth is represented by a democratic, organic arbiter regarding both storage & exchange value. All else is manipulation, including economic & political behavior.
Once you see through the haze, you will realize that all movement, other than a primary focus of keeping eyes on the prize, is just subterfuge & deceit geared towards making sure you lose.
CosmoJoe, I'm completely unbiased vis-a-vis American politics (and a foreigner to boot), I think Obama is an incredible failure and nothing like as smart as he'd like to think. But. If you think it's "the media" that is solely responsible for the idea that Palin is dumb you are completely wrong. Listen to her words, her vocabulary and her sentence structure, the communication of her ideas and beliefs; it is cringe-worthy at best and complete nonsense at worst. She is an intellectual lightweight at a time when America needs genuinely bright people orientating the country's key decisions. I don't know who those people are, I don't see them populating either party, but it's quite clear to me that Sarah Palin does not qualify.
i don't know if b r i g h t people is the answer. H O N E S T , would be my approach. someone without their own agenda. 2 me palin represents the perfect specimen of dumbing down of america, but with good looks and a wink.
Cosmo- Did you even read B9K9's response?
"Palin is a dope? Or is that Bush? Barry can't speak a coherent thought without his 'prompter? Are we in our current predicament due to the last 2 years, 10 years, or 30 years? Or since 1913? Or before, going all the way back to the BoE?
I mean, if these comments in anyway representative of the best we can do, then we are truly fucked."
And you STILL felt compelled to respond when you should have been embarrassed.
Disclaimer: Both sides disgust me.
Burger King crown for you, B9K9.
Remember kids, if we are distracted into arguments of which side of the shit pile stinks less, we are still just holding shit. Politicians are merely the manifestation of wealthy elites using their vast funds to manipulate (and ultimately suppress) us. Don't buy into distractions! We can make a positive impact. Don't bother arguing with your fellow ZHers, who are good and smart people. Heck, if you have an acct at a Fed-member bank, withdraw it. Leave the cash at home or put it in a local credit union. Don't buy the elites stocks. Better yet, go check out "Narcodollars for Beginners" by Catherine Fitts.
Hell B9K9 - this is good compared to many places. Want some real entertainment, go read the Huffington Post, Free Republic, or just about any major newspaper that allows comments.
It has gotten so bad people who talk to each other all the time can't even communicate anymore. Happened to me last week.
A guy and his wife whom we drink with almost every Friday got pissed off at my wife because corrected them on some political bullshit he was telling us that was wrong. One thing led to another and the next thing you know he called her "a fucking idiot." When we get to that point, when it happens among friends (probably now x-friends), the game is over, TPTB have won.
We the people, as long as we are at each others neck, will never fix anything. The first, and easiest thing to do it get past the red team/blue team sporting event and realize they are both the enemy - yet too many run back to their pied piper each and every day - to get another dose of bullshit mis-direction talking point to go attack the enemy on the other side.
FUBAR - your right B9K9, it's time to get.the.fuck.out.
The "responsible men" who are the proper decision-makers, Lippmann continued, must "live free of the trampling and the roar of a bewildered herd." These "ignorant and meddlesome outsiders" are to be "spectators," not "participants." The herd does have a "function": to trample periodically in support of one or another element of the leadership class in an election. Unstated is that the responsible men gain that status not by virtue of any special talent or knowledge but by willing subordination to the systems of actual power and loyalty to their operative principles;crucially, that basic decisions over social and economic life are to be kept within institutions with top-down authoritarian control, while the participation of the beast is to be limited to a diminished public arena.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6326156/Hegemony-or-Survival-Noam-Chomsky
Cosmo,
YOU got junked for the most truthful post of the day?.
I may shit myself.Your dead spot ON!.
At least she doesn't say Uh, 70 times in one sentence, because she did no brain damage from Crack.
She sold the Alaska state Airplane, she balanced their budget, she got crooked Pols( Repubs) kicked out of office,she took on Big Oil......citizens get hefty checks for their OWN Natural resources.
Name one swinging dick, that's even come close.............without stealing from the US taxpayer.
NONE.
What's truly shocking is not Leo's statement, but the 11 junks ... or, maybe not.
Why so? Which policy prescription advocated by Palin would doom us to long term poverty?
Leo, I may be a lurker on this site, but please, for once, say something intelligent.
Leo, while you must expect your typical economic post to draw junks here, I'll bet even you were surprised to see all the junks you received for dissing Palin.
Actually, I'd like to hear from all those on this forum who actually think that Palin is smarter than they are. Those who think that Palin has more smarts than they do. Anybody?
I think Palin is smarter than Leo. Does that count?
do U think she is smart than/then me?
*
regardless of sitting president, this thing rolls till 2015, the author hedges 2016 for credibility. 2014 hyper inflation, which pulls the tape higher the year after in 2015. all this provided the book of Revelation does not start playing out. in that case, i am thankfully....out of here.
my vote is for Newt. no way Palin get's elected, and then there is Hillary...argh.
palin can co-anchor with Glen Beck and the fox bombshells blondes.
Newt is damaged goods, Jindal stands a better chance.
Hillary WILL be running aginst Obama in '12.(she would kick his ass).
No way 94% of African American voters can stop that, he's lost Independents, and Repub women.Not enough Hispanics YET, to swing it.
If she wins, overdose the day after, if your forced to stay CONUS.
I'll put $5 on Gingrich in 2012, if he runs. He'll debate the shit out of either BO or HRC. I think the Clintons will reappear to console America after the BO historical-guilt-release experiment. But I don't think that Gingrich will be successful selling supply-side and debt increases.
What about RON PAUL?
What if his economic predictions come true?
"Dollar Crash", "Blood in the streets", "Anarchy", "Military Abandoned because no funding available to bring them home".
Does it become impossible to crowd him out because of so much credability?
(You people are obviously joking thinking Newt or Romney is a good canidate)
Heed his WARNING HERE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPSJDqx4Dq4
Ron Paul is a nut job while at the same time he leads the charge against the Fed scam and is doggedly for sound money. He's also a big porker.
He reappropriates funds back to his district. These are taxes that his constituents paid that would otherwise be spent on Federal bureaucracy.
Remember, he votes against all these spending bills. If we had a house full of Ron Pauls, the country would look a lot better, a lot quicker.
Also, what exactly makes him "nuts"? People used to say that he was nuts because he didn't trust the Federal Reserve. Now that the Fed has been proven to be corrupt, why is he nuts? Methinks you labelled him, and left the label even after he has been proven to be correct.
"He's also a big porker."
That is a blatant lie. Ron Paul consistently votes against govt. spending, sometimes being the sole "No" vote.
The fabricated "pork" BS stems from his refusal to allow money alloted to his district to return to the federal coffers where they will spend it and his constiuents won't see a cent.
Dr. Paul wants to cut spending, eliminiate wasteful programs like the Department of Energy (whose raison d'etre is to get the U.S. off of foreign energy sources - like oil), and also to reduce the budget and size of the Military Industrial Complex, withdraw troops from foreign entanglements, restore sound monetary policy, lower taxes on the poor and also eliminate the indisious hidden tax of inflation.
The man is a freaking Airforce flight surgeon, economist, obstetrician, has dedicated his life to serving the American people, and what have you done? How dare anyone put him down when the people they vote in are nobodies that have done nothing or are out and out failures with nothing accomplished.
It is the same smear mongering that Palin received.
But she is also another person that has done absolutely nothing and is still put on a pedestal. She seriously is not smart enough to lead people and has already abandoned her constituents for a quick buck. She is exactly what gives the freedom movement a bad name. Stealing and spouting talking points does not make one worthy of civil service in government. At least with Ron Paul he has made his own money and not sold out to the party elites, has stood by his constituents for decades, has fought against all of the reckless spending and excess and wars, deficits, unfunded liabilities, socialistic agendas, and mainly has fought for the U.S. Constitution and anything that was/is unconstitutional has never agreed with. Sarah Palin would likely go to war with any country that isn't Christian enough for her and constantly fuses her belief in her god with the founding fathers and the creation of the republic. Ron Paul, on the other hand, has refused to participate in congressional prayer because it conflicts with separation of church and state.
One of them walks the walk not just talks the talk and it's not Falin Palin.
As an Alaskan it's good to see someone who can see the BS for what it is. I voted for Palin for Governor -- a mistake I will rue until I die. She's a hypocritical, lying miscreant. If the conservative media would pull their heads out of her ass and check her actual record in office they'd see it. Big government grown larger, massive tax hikes on the oil companies, appointing a Planned Parenthood stooge to the AK Supreme court, etc.
She's not who she says she is, she's just one more media whore who figured out how get rich at the expense of others. Forget the Quitter from Wasilla.
Treeplanter,
Out of the past FIVE elections, which POTUS was/is better than Paul?.
At least he is for America,and the people.And, need I say it...SOUND fiscal policy?.
Plus,I am sure seveal million of your soldiers would like to come home, and live a life.
I agree Newt and Romney are horrible candidates. Paul missed his chance last election. He is too old now. In 2012 he will be 77.
Peter Thiel is one of Ron Paul’s main advisors (read handler) and Mr. Thiel is a Bilderberger
http://www.nndb.com/people/030/000124655/
It doesn't make the least bit of difference what lawn jockey is installed in 2012 by the rigged voting machines. The next lawn Jockey in Chief will do EXACTLY what he/she is told or get a bullet in the head from a "lone assassin."
Peter Schiff was also an economic advisor!
You are a wimp.
What has Ron Paul ever done that has been disingenuous, much less a lie? I can't think of a single thing.
Actions speak louder than words or guilt by association.
Attila,
No one handles Ron Paul.
That's why he's feared.
If he was elected, the U.N. would be GONE, and we would have a balanced budget, and best of all, the Congress could smoke pot during breaks.
Stop the war on marywanna, and 40% of the jails empty.
Regulate it, make it cheap,tax it, and you kill the Cartels.
We could allow the LE to focus on real crime, not some punk with a 3oz bag,or seeds in his floorboard.
( And no, I do not, never have used it).
Just a waste of trillions of dollars.And NO way we ever defeat the Drugs........unless we go Hong Kong on the users asses.
I promise you, Thiel is too busy to kkkcontrol that campaign.
I had high hopes for Ron - sent his presidential campaign $2600 (max allowable contribution) hoping it would help him get elected - I've never supported a candidate financially before (and never will again) - Ron had lots of $$$ left from his campaign and it got rolled into ???
Can I have my money back?
I get periodic calls from Ron Paul and Campaign for Liberty and some other association (recorded calls), but he is out there. Not sure if that is where your money went, but he is still trying to reach the people.
Agreed if anyone will spend that money and make it worth the donation investment it will be Congressman Paul.
His campaign did more with less, and without the support of the Main Stream Mind-Melting Machine, than did any other candidate.
Here is something I have shared before:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiAL76OoXp0
But... the recession is over.. right?
anytime some smuck/s reads ahead 7 years into a crystal ball you just know they are full of it. To bad that this awesome ability to reads palms-crystal ball vision wasn't good in 2008, than perhaps Obama would have seen afew answers to the problems he asked to solve, rather than the lame excuse of blaming Americans and bush.
Yes all these genius commentators and their crystal ball gazing never saw a thing wrong in 2008. Now suddenly they can see clear recovery...in 7 years. I say we just hang them all, how about that for starters?
# Check.
None of the above, including the umbrella magician currently occupying the office.
The House is responsible for drafting the Articles of Impeachment...
So it depends on who owns the House...
Impeachment is a waste of time unless the crime is truly outrageous. Going after Clinton, who was not a danger to the republic, was really stupid.
Agreed. The current admin. could have started several investigations of Bush-Cheney activities and did not. If the Repubs. take the House in November and start investigations (which has been their history) they are doomed. The people are really, really sick of this partisan politicts WWE bullshit sideshow called the US Congress. It is an embarassment to the US.
Sorry, as much as I could not possibly care less who is getting their knob slobbed by who, Clinton lied under oath. Impeachment was entirely appropriate.
It is not a political issue. The people of this once great nation no longer share the same values. I look forward to the day the union is dissolved so that middle America can continue with Capitalism. I just hope this time the federalist troops refuse to fight against the states leaving the Socialist experiment.
Alexis de Tocqueville is vomiting in heaven.
Amen.
The 99 weekers don't want to lose their golden goose, so they junk us. Middle America HATES California and the NorthEast; the only mouthpieces on television. I wish we could just shut off the liberalism that spews from these non-representative areas. States will not go along with bailing out these selective blue states: California, Illinois, Michigan and New York. These states made their liberal laws and benefits and we saw no "benefit",(neither did they as we now see), but I don't want to pay for it any more than my neighbor's mortgage.
I live in Michigan. I wanna nuke Flint and Detroit and Lansing. I really do. This place is such a shit hole.
I go "floating" down the Au Sable river near Mio, MI.
Love it.
Best way to get there from upstate NY is right through CaNaDa.
Amen.
Palin knows about economic... she has a checkbook
'Recovery' to WHAT exactly! The failed 75% Borrow to Consume economic model? WHAT ECONOMY?
What recovery? We can't have a recovery by 2016 - or 2015, or 2017, or any year - until we actually have some policies in place which allow a recovery to happen. For crying out loud, as long as we're continuing to pile up debt and retain a tax and regulatory structure which moves our factories to China, our farms to Mexico and our mines to Chile, just how is a recovery supposed to happen?
There is no end to this as long as we keep it up as is...an economic idea and a political settlement have failed. Until we change both, nothing changes.
If you want to see where we are going if Obama is re-elected, look no further than the ramblings of some of his pals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lwiRFLsm_U
What I want to know is, does this clown seriously believe what he is saying? If so, we are apparently still stuck in recession because we haven't spent enough !
Look at all the morons bickering about bullcrap politics again...so easy to control, the average american sheeple. Hell the monetizers can do whatever they want and the dumbass american sheeple just gladly get herded back into their stupid demican/republicrat pens no problem!
divide and conquer is the oldest control strategy on this planet and the sheep fall for it over and over again - politics, religion, etc - wait till the 'Christians vs Muslims' strategy gets a foothold - almost 5 billion people will be ready to kill each other over religious bullshit that was made up with the express purpose of controlling people
Complaining about politicians does not mean falling into the classical stereotypes of Republican vs. Democrat. I lot of people on this site KNOW that the Dems and Republicans are two sides of the same coin.
A true liberal would not agree nor support with what media is doing in protecting Obama. The half baked liberals love him because they think he is one of them. He is not, he is not even close to being a liberal. A liberal wouldnt bail out the banks, WS, GE, Insurance companies, REITs, UPS., etc., nor write onerous regulation to protect obsolete buisness models. He himself is not a working man, so his doesnt understand business or work so he is arrogant enough not to know his policies/Congress are screwing the entreprenour and the working man. Their is only one politcal party, its the establishment.
I saw this qoute on ZH the other day. Its brillant:
Poverty is the worse form of violence. - Buddha
Look at our poor old unc'..........the obama administration has messed him up bad.
Although he is still standing,how much more beatings can he take?
http://images.intomobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/uncle_sam.jpg
This is the Obaminator's first term.A second term would no doubt result in poor old unc' being reduced to ?
http://www.agardeninthecity.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Uncle-Sam-Hat...
...."not much left of this sucker is there....no blood no body......we have nothing".
....................."Meet your new uncle people":
http://moneypennydd.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/unclebarackobama.jpg?w=3...
You guys are still thinking old politics. And old politics is exactly what Americans are sick to death of. When I say death, there are now tens of millions of near-death experiences out there given the economy. Nobody's that stupid and blind to believe that it's Obama's fault, nor do they think he's got any answers, but at least he's showing some concern. Nobody's that stupid to believe that drill, baby, drill is a viable plan for America's future. And nobody's so blind they don't see the big money backing "pro-business" shill candidates any more.
It's a different world, baby!
Caviar emptor wow thats the dumbest sheeple post Ive ever read. Thanks.
CE, let us know how that doubling-down on stupid works out for you.
Everyone just relax and take another hit of the Hopium and a few minutes later you will see everything is alright...yes we can.
There is no real US economy at all, we make nothing, so talk of a recovery and a date thereof doesnt even get off the ground, much less fly around and do stunts. This recovery talk is more boob-bait for the moron bubbas, crowd control.
The up and coming elite aren't just going to let their shot at power and fortune slip away. They are going to use every tool possible to extract everything they can before the game is over. A lawless, white collar free-for-all. Some of these egomaniacs might actually think they can drive this rudderless ship caught in it's evitable mathematically maelstrom. The established elite who know better are likely using the time to position themselves accordingly.
You give them too much credit - they really aren't all that bright. The people at the top of the heap got there by not having any gigantic, indictment-producing mistakes on their resumes, and by knowing someone higher up who took a liking to them. A few - very few - are actually thrusters who make their own way, but most of them are just place holders moving up in the stately progression of Big Corporation idiocy...or Big Government idiocy, if that is the path they choose.
They aren't, in my view, working out their nefarious plots - they are frightened rabbits who simply don't want to lose their place at the top...or their shot at it, if they are a few step lower on the ladder. They'll go along with anyone who promises they'll keep things going - so, for instance, the massive financial backing for Harry Reid's doomed campaign...he'll save them, if they do as they are told (which, for now, means "give lots and lots of money").
Our problem is not that wicked men rule - if they did, then good men could counter them and have it out - but that idiots and cowards rule...
Yep; you got it.
Do you guys really think Timmy G doesn't know what's going on? If everything is as rigged as you guys claim, all Timmy has to do is pick up the phone. And he will.
Timmah just picks up the phone and calls who, his mommie?
The country has become dysfunctional and campaign finance is the root of the problem.
Institutional bribery.
Sorry folks. Game close to over. Time to hit the Reset Button.
Agreed. 2016? Give me a break. It might a recovery by then, within a whole new context though. Between now and then, is does not matter who the hell is president. The system is f***ing broke. This is about as useless as arguing about Democrats versus Republicans. Douches and Turds. Great choices! Game over. Now it is just a matter of how and when it comes to an end. After that we can start talking about recovery... that is, once we figure out what there is to work with.
The local flea market is deserted. Abandoned cars litter the roadsides. All of the squirrels are gone. My cat is missing.
I will pay fifty cents silver per day for any man that will pull a plow. If he falls I will help him up with a whip. You can buy potatoes at the going rate. You can sleep in the ditches around the fields. Thieves will be escorted off the premises with buckshot.
Women can stay in the compound with me. They will weave cotton for trade goods or cook and clean. Room and board only. No children.
Lumberjacks seventy five cents silver per day.
Diesel repairman one dollar silver per day.
Hungry yet?
Hmm nice concept...OR I just shoot you in the head and take all your gold and silver youre flashing around. Sounds far more profitable to me.
My dogs will let me know where you are. I will let them eat you.
No Im serious. Everyone seems to think theyll pay the paupers to do their chores from the bags of silver coins theyre holding...what if roving MS-13 gangs just decide they dont want to do your yard work for a couple grams of silver and just decide to do their days work in 2 seconds and chop off your head with a machette and take everything at once? Really, have people thought out this Mad Max economic scenario at ALL?
Sheepdog
In this part of the world posse commitati would blossom quicker than Mexican petunias if we got wind of some of that action.
This is my latifundium.
Sheepdog
In this part of the world posse commitati would blossom quicker than Mexican petunias if we got wind of some of that action.
This is my latifundium.
My dogs will let me know where you are. I will let them eat you.
OK i am there. i am a weaver and a potter, still can throw pretty well. still pretty darn
T I G H T, too
Kathy
Just stick to the clay and I'll think about the other.
On my latifundia we are all about the new economics.
Rothschild, is that you?
I mean, all you speak of has been the last 2,000 years........
The local flea market is deserted. Abandoned cars litter the roadsides. All of the squirrels are gone. My cat is missing.
I will pay fifty cents silver per day for any man that will pull a plow. If he falls I will help him up with a whip. You can buy potatoes at the going rate. You can sleep in the ditches around the fields. Thieves will be escorted off the premises with buckshot.
Women can stay in the compound with me. They will weave cotton for trade goods or cook and clean. Room and board only. No children.
Lumberjacks seventy five cents silver per day.
Diesel repairman one dollar silver per day.
Hungry yet?
Not even one post about armed revolt, tells me there is absolutely no chance of a recovery. OH I know, thats all 'crazy talk'...yea...well Im with Fat Tony, time to leave this wrecked failed nation state, hell Rome had it easy. It just fell. At least they got cool gladiator games and bread all for no charge. Here we'll see the gladiator games in the form of food and bank run riots, granny's arms and legs ripped off by MS-13 gangs, their wife and kids raped and murdered, far sooner than most think.
"It just fell."
yep, only took a few centuries ...
Bronzie
Just put the collar on. We can discuss the harness later.
That's not a whip. It a correcter.
The first potato is free.
'Took a few centuries' yea well times are different, the Romans didnt have HFT computers racking up trillions in debt monthly.
Sheep dog one
Let the games begin!
Paul Farrell, what exactly magical will happen in 2016 ???
No more debt or at least the same amount as today ?
The dollar still worth some amount of oil and gold ?
Euro still around ?
No nuclear war yet ?
China still producing and US still buying with that dollar of today ?
Somehow i feel that 2002-2008 was a very different time from 2010-2016
Perhaps US and the western world will still be a big merry family in 2016, paper notes still worth something, pensions still being paid in thousands, and somehow that tax paying part of the westnern worlds population ( in some places ONLY 30%)
will still manage well
OR
there will be hyperinflation/collapse, loss of power
REMEMBER politicians only have power when enough soldiers, the policemen stand behind them, the moment they are not, their bodies will turn into hamburger look-a-likes
I foresee a split in USA, the moment US collapses, the united shysters (nations), the IMF, the world bank all collapses and that would be a very good thing in the long run
ricks
Just get into the spirit of the times.
Selling yourself into slavery doesn't have to be permanent. Chains are made to be broken.
Sheepdog thinks he can interlope. Let's see how he does with my little welcoming committee.
LOL, yer 2 dogs, lets see how they stand up to my .338 Lapua mag from 1,200 meters. Really, has anyone thought any of this through at all?
Sheepdog
First you gotta get here.
Then you gotta shoot a bunch of dogs.
Then I know where you are.
Yep I got to walk a mile in your shoes...then I'll be a mile away from you, with your shoes!
Seriously, how people think theyre going to walk around with sacks of precious metals paying peasants a few cents to do their odd jobs for them is a mystery to me.
I know when I'm a soldier I won't stand behind Obama or Palin or whoever when this things collapses. Pelosi she can suck my ****. Wait nvm I just threw up in my mouth when I pictured her wrinkly hand and mouth around my pride.
Sheepdog
Gold I have none
Silver and copper aplenty
Also lead, no charge.
and the lead comes with free express delivery!!!
IMO, consumer debt service is the next black swan to hit Main St. Preceding the passage of the new credit card bill, everyone's(?) card went from a static interest rate to a variable one, and the new rate structure was higher to boot. My 7.99% rate went to 12.99% (the low end of the range) and will appreciate along with any increase in the Prime rate.
As many might know, I could've froze my acct. at the old rate and paid it down. Problem was, it would no longer show up as an active acct. in my credit report. I chose to keep it active, as I was looking at getting a mortgage later on and its the only card I have.
So, I'm wondering whether people are so much paying off debt as they are adjusting to the new level of debt service required to satisfy the increase in interest charges?
That's just today. What is going to happen when/if the bond bubble pops, sending rates skyrocketing? For me, January's rate increase was already 63%. What will another 100% do for the Great American Consumer?
Those are some pretty serious problems. What we obviously need is the right team of central planners to fix everything.
/sarcasm off
Rome didn't fall in 5, 10 or 70 years. The republic, to which we owe "the senate", or "the capitol" (hill), lasted 300 hundred years. The following empire (conflated with the idea of "Rome" via Edward Gibbon's XIX Century analysis) lasted another 5, 6 or 7 HUNDRED years. They didn't wake up one morning and said "oops, the empire fell". No. This - in my opinion - is a long, protracted historical/economical/ecological, "natural" process
Yea and Rome didnt have HFT supercomputers and deranged demonic monetizers either. You think this will be a 300 year collapse? LMAO. Well anyway this started in 1913 so we're already 100 into it. Tic toc tic toc.
I'm sure the folks who sat through the sack of Rome by Visigoths probably would disagree with you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(410)
Do remember that the huns moved slowly on horseback... the USD moves at the speed of light...
We are not looking at hundreds of years. When the collapse comes with our paper based currency... people will write for centuries at the speed that PM prices moved in our electronic trading system.
Something is coming and it ain't good.