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Paul Krugman Demands New Fiscal And Monetary Stimulus, Says Time For QE2.0

Tyler Durden's picture




 

 BN  11:58 *KRUGMAN: `WE NEED TO GET MORE STIMULUS INTO THE REAL
ECONOMY'
 BN  11:58 *KRUGMAN SAYS FEDERAL RESERVE SHOULD DO MORE QUANTITATIVE
EASING

 BN  11:58 *KRUGMAN: U.S SHOULD USE `EVERYTHING WE CAN' TO BOOST GDP, JOBS
 BN  11:58 *NOBEL LAUREATE KRUGMAN COMMENTS IN BLOOMBERG TV INTERVIEW
 BN  11:58 *KRUGMAN SAYS FED SHOULD HAVE 3%-4% INFLATION TARGET LONG TERM
 BN  11:58 *KRUGMAN SAYS U.S. GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO `GO OUT AND HIRE PEOPLE'
 BN  11:58 *KRUGMAN SAYS SECOND MAJOR STIMULUS PLAN PROBABY WON'T HAPPEN
 BN  11:58 *KRUGMAN SAYS U.S. ECONOMY MAY BE FACING A `VERY LONG SIEGE'
 BN  11:58 *PRINCETON'S KRUGMAN: `MARKETS HAVE BEEN FAIRLY CALM SO FAR'
 

 

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Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:08 | 454976 trillion_dollar...
trillion_dollar_deficit's picture

QE4EVA

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:29 | 455062 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

I'm ready to predict today that QE2 will be formally announced before the end of the month. Whether it takes the form of new direct intervention in the bond market, a new economic "stimulus" package or some combination of both, it is clear now that the announcement is imminent.

Why? This Krugman interview is the final signal. Don't think for a moment that Krugman isn't wired in to Dem/Obama politics. These statements today are just trial balloons meant for clearing the road. 

This also explains the desperation of The Evil Empire to drag down the price of gold for the past two weeks. Obviously, the announcement of QE2 will cause gold to rise $50-100, just as it did in 3/09 when QE1 was announced. The deliberate gold slamdown of the past two weeks makes that move start from $70 off its high, minimizing the impact and appearance.

Now it all makes sense. 

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:35 | 455090 Cleanclog
Cleanclog's picture

Perhaps this will be when the Fed starts purchasing Muni bonds and notes and rescues water districts and hospitals with TARP.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:56 | 455191 Crummy
Crummy's picture

That's what ObamaCare is for.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:57 | 455197 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Krugman's going to get rolled.  Overt QE has no chance, it is kryptonite now.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:10 | 454982 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

please stand by...

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:11 | 454984 Spaceman Spiff
Spaceman Spiff's picture

Keynetards will be the death of us.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:11 | 454985 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

BN  11:58 *NOBEL LAUREATE KRUGMAN COMMENTS IN BLOOMBERG TV INTERVIEW

BN  11:58 *PRINCETON'S KRUGMAN: `MARKETS HAVE BEEN FAIRLY CALM SO FAR'

Let's just call him Superman Krugman and get it over with, OK?

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:13 | 454992 -Michelle-
-Michelle-'s picture

Ah, the logical fallacy of the appeal to authority.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:10 | 454986 The Merchant of...
The Merchant of Venice's picture

Fake tits for everyone!

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:20 | 455031 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

Even dudes?

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:35 | 455091 tmosley
tmosley's picture

ESPECIALLY dudes.  They get six huge cherry tits, right on the back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQkEwn3cQns&feature=related (5:00)

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:56 | 455190 molecool
molecool's picture

That should be fun if you go dancing.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:40 | 455117 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Better would be liposuction for everyone.  Much larger market in the US for that procedure.  Much more stimulative....to the economy, that is.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:59 | 455196 Citizen of an I...
Citizen of an IKEA World's picture

Yeah, Bernanke could use the bags of extracted fat to make designer soap to sell back to us at obscene markups...

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:45 | 455517 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

Human fat to make the world's best soap... Tyler Durden agrees.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 22:04 | 455933 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Also to the Zero Hedge soapmaking community.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:41 | 455126 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

I am soooo against fake tits.  This is really a sore point with me.

Size doesn't matter, as long as they are real.....

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:59 | 455199 economessed
economessed's picture

I agree.  At what point did we decide that two ziplock bags filled with salt water and stapled to your chest was anything more than overcompensating for an untreated sense of inadequacy.  It's the same phenomenon that drives the American culture of "consumerism." 

Fake.  All fake.

 

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:54 | 455543 The Merchant of...
The Merchant of Venice's picture

When we doubled down on phony - the 80s.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:14 | 454988 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

This is Smoke and Mirrors.

They don't have enough votes.

They're just using this as another excuse to blame the GOP for not supporting their fradulent agenda.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:20 | 455029 The Merchant of...
The Merchant of Venice's picture

Dems are taking the talking points back to 2005.  Bush, Social Security!

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:03 | 455215 Apostate
Apostate's picture

Votes? Who needs votes!? Just executive order that shit. It's a national security issue!

PRINT PRINT PRINT!

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:13 | 454990 subqtaneous
subqtaneous's picture

BN  11:59 *KEITH RICHARDS SAYS 'KRUGMAN SHOULD SHUT HIS BLOODY GOB!'

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:23 | 455043 Assetman
Assetman's picture

ROFLMAO!!!

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:12 | 455239 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Typical British understatement.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:13 | 454993 John Self
John Self's picture

BN 11:59 * KRUGMAN:  'WITH NO CHILDREN OF MY OWN, I HAVE NO RESERVATIONS ABOUT EXPLODING DEBT'

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:30 | 455068 Cursive
Cursive's picture

+1

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:59 | 455202 Harry Bender
Harry Bender's picture

+2

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:23 | 455455 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

+3.14159 Pie Break!

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:34 | 455491 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

Does this mean.....FOOD Fight !?

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:14 | 455000 Cincitucky
Cincitucky's picture

Thank God!  I wasn't sure if I'd have enough paper for fire starting my fireplaces this coming winter.

Call me releaved.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:14 | 455001 KJ
KJ's picture

The capsized letters make it funnier like those LOL cats internet images.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:14 | 455002 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

I'll side with Ferguson on this, don't listen to Krugman, he's insane, and ultimately he will always say that there was never enough spending. That's always the fallback position, we never spent enough. I call BS.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:21 | 455037 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

Maybe Krugman is just using talking points from the Obama press control.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:43 | 455132 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Ferguson and his neofeudalist rulers, right.....more tax cuts for corporations that don't pay taxes.

Yeah....right.....

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:14 | 455003 greg merrill
greg merrill's picture

Those that can't do teach.

Those that can't teach talk.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:36 | 455496 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

+1

...and I would like to intriduce Exhibit "A" your honor. I give you Barack Obama.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:16 | 455012 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

BN 11:59 *KRUGMAN SAYS HE WILL SHOW UP NAKED AT ALL MEETINGS UNTIL QE2.0 IS PASSED.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:18 | 455022 Cincitucky
Cincitucky's picture

Made me laugh, good one D.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:17 | 455017 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

All of Krugman's desires will be satisfied.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:17 | 455021 The Merchant of...
The Merchant of Venice's picture

BS 12:04 *KRUGMAN SAYS NEIGHBORHOOD KIDS MUST BE CLONED TO SUPPORT BABYSITTING COOP

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:38 | 455105 Crummy
Crummy's picture

BS 12:04 *KRUGMAN: ANYONE GETTING BACK FROM LUNCH A MINUTE OR TWO LATE SHOULD SET THEIR WATCHES BACK AN HOUR AND GO BACK TO LUNCH.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:22 | 455026 walküre
walküre's picture

.. and the ramp job provides the backdrop that Krugman's sentiment is in line with the "market".

let's see how high they get it this time .. and how many will follow

this morning did not work as planned, I can tell you that much.

they're bringing out the big guns. talk about QE.. just talk of course but it might put the markets onto a solid footing.

what a charade.

.. nothing seems to work though (for the pumpers).

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:20 | 455032 harveywalbinger
harveywalbinger's picture

Slightly OT, but...  

Has the UK woke up?  Or just another power grab from a different angle?

http://boingboing.net/2010/07/01/vote-to-repeal-brita.html

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:23 | 455041 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Set up for the Great I Told You So. It's not going to work this time. The profession is completely discredited.

It's time to shift focus from the debt to the roll risk. This Is the difference this time around. Krugman and the We-are-so-full-of-shit-it's-difficult-for-us-to-even-be-considered-keynesians crowd wants to play the debt off as a problem 30 years from now. It's an almost weekly problem for the treasury at this point. No amount of growth can solve a near-term balance of payment problem except direct monetization of new issue of debt.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:25 | 455049 Paper CRUSHer
Paper CRUSHer's picture

Do ya see what happens if ya don't sing.So please everyone......a 1-2.....a 1-2-3-4,

"One,two,Krugerman's coming for you.Three, four, better lock your door.
Five, six, grab your crucifix.
Seven, eight, gonna stay up late.
Nine, ten, never sleep again.
One, two Krugerman's coming for you
three, four better lock your door
five, six grab your crucifix
seven, eight gonna stay up late
nine, ten he's back again."

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:30 | 455072 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

I would suggest that the study of macroeconomics in general has a giant blind spot, which is the economic and governmental mechanisms in operation.  Talks of QE vs. austerity miss the whole point, which is that we are functionally operating under an unholy hybrid system of plutocracy and kleptocracy.  Until we move away from that system, it really doesn't fucking matter what direction we go in re: QE vs. austerity, we're going to get fucked either way.  Please read between the lines as to what I'm really saying there.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:45 | 455139 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Or to rephrase it, with the fantasy finance sector and war spending making up 95% of the GDP, there is NO economy.

None, zero, nada, null, nil.  Why is this so difficult for so many to grasp?

Yes, we still have some commerce, but that dates back to the cave dwellers.....

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:51 | 455164 centerline
centerline's picture

What do mean I am out of money?  I still have checks.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:32 | 455486 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

LOL, I had to explain to my son earlier this year when he asked me for another new video game that times were changing and we couldn't just buy everything we think we want anymore because we don't make as much money as we used to, and that he should appreciate all the games that he already has.  

His response was.... "Do we still have checks?" The question was even funnier to me when I looked over at him in the car and noticed his 9 year old little self trying to keep a straight face. He was making a joke!

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:36 | 455092 docj
docj's picture

A simple question for NOBEL LAUREATE and PRINCETON PROFESSOR Paulie Krugnuts - is there any amount of money, any amount at all, that would in your distinguished opinion be "too much" for the Fed.GOV to manufacture out of thin air and to spend?  I mean, could Barry, Benron, or Turbo Timmy toss out a number - say, $1.4 quadrillion - that would cause you to say, "Gee fellas, that's a lot of paper and ink to be tossing around"?

Or does that figure not exist - proving once and for all that you, Dr. Krugnuts, are no economist - you are a zealot; a religious extremist, prostrate eternally to your altar to JM Keynes.  

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:38 | 455103 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Ask an alcoholic or a drug addict if there is any amount that satisfies?

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:42 | 455129 docj
docj's picture

Spot-on, lizzy.

One drink would be too many and 100 wouldn't be nearly enough.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:27 | 455289 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

...and that first drink has already been taken.  Binge, here we come!

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:38 | 455317 docj
docj's picture

There's actually a pretty large party of my psyche that sincerely hopes Barry and Benny take Paulie's advice - double-down on the Epic Fail ($3T-plus in Bennie Bucks and we couldn't even buy ourselves 18-months == Epic Fail).  Heck, we're already headed for a brick wall at Warp 9, there's really little else to be lost here and maybe, just maybe, this will bring the inevitable crash here a little sooner.

Not that I'm looking forward to The Crash, mind you.  Nobody in their right mind should - it's going to suck.  Out loud.

But it's coming.  Oh yeah, it's coming.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:30 | 455476 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

Along the lines of the classic:

"Never before in American Cinema History has the Cavalry EVER arrived too late!"

I leave it to you, dear reader, to supply your own for the coming paper deluge.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:39 | 455508 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

Oh, you gold bug, you!

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 21:06 | 455854 docj
docj's picture

Heh - actually I'm a "pouring every spare dime I have into paying down what little debt I have as fast as I can" bug, but if that roughly translates to "gold" so be it.

Cheers -

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 19:56 | 455625 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Doc, I think what you might be saying, in keeping with the alcoholic analogy, is that the U. S. needs to hit bottom.  Spend into oblivion and drag everyone else down with ya.  I could agree with the concept.  Let's all root for more stimulus to speed us to the low point.  This dilly-dally crap just ain't getting it.

What would constitute our "bottom"?  Some Great Depression conditions could suffice I suppose.  Our living standards would suffer -- you mean like income decreasing, reduced spending power for what we really buy every day, and having to let our houses and cars go?  Ooops.  We may be getting there.  Well, our standards could be the measuring rule.  To quote one definition of an alcoholic bottom:  When things get worse faster than you can lower your standards.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 18:24 | 455600 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

It used to be "In for a penny, in for a Pound (Sterling)."  Now it is something like, "In for a billion, in for a trillion."

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:44 | 455135 suteibu
suteibu's picture

They'll just lie to you because they think you want to hear a lie.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:43 | 455331 Wyndtunnel
Wyndtunnel's picture

Not before it kills you....unless of course you're Ozzy or Keith Richards... we should ask them....

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 21:08 | 455856 docj
docj's picture

Keith "Walking Corpse" Richards may not be the best example for that theory.

Then again, maybe he's the perfect example.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:41 | 455120 Clayton Bigsby
Clayton Bigsby's picture

He's a subversive under the control of a foreign government and should be treated as such

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:45 | 455141 tecno242
tecno242's picture

That moron embodies everything wrong with our retarded leadership in this country.

 

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:45 | 455144 REIT Bubble
REIT Bubble's picture

BN  11:58 *KRUGMAN SAYS SECOND MAJOR STIMULUS PLAN PROBABY WON'T HAPPEN

 

Freudian?


Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:45 | 455145 chet
chet's picture

Krugman's economics have been hopelessly entangled with his politics for a long time.

We will get QE2, but it won't be enough for Krugman.  He'll just keep upping the ante so that he can say "I told you so."

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:52 | 455162 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

A video of Krugman hitting the pavement after falling 60 stories would get 2 million plus hits on YouTube I imagine..........

 

As he screams his various mantras on the way down: "A second home for any wino that can march"

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:52 | 455169 Thoreau
Thoreau's picture

The clouds parted, and the lord spoke in parables ad parabellum.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:53 | 455174 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

so krugman is again casting about occasional little cryptic hints that he is in favor of QE2?

you really gotta read between the lines with this guy.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 15:55 | 455183 Citizen of an I...
Citizen of an IKEA World's picture

ZH 15:52 *CITIZEN OF AN IKEA NATION SAYS PRINCETON'S KRUGMAN 'SHOULD GO FUCK HIMSELF'

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:04 | 455208 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

A message to my good buddies Krugman and Summers, and all the ex-banksters and Goldmanites that are now Obamanites:

 

......................./´/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯;
........../'/.../..../....../¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'..')
.........\.................'...../
...........\.............. _.·´
.............\.............(
..............\.............\
...............\..............\
................\...............\
.................\................\

 

 

 

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:47 | 455525 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

WIN!

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 18:39 | 455632 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Unfortunately, there are no means to express appreciation of good comments at  the ZeroHedge  site.

 

Consequently, there is no way to follow good contributors or Ignore junk as it is done at Seeking Alpha.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:07 | 455226 Ted K
Ted K's picture

This just in........(input morse code beeping here).  In a desperate attempt to outdo Michael Hastings, after his major coup with General McChrystal, Lara Logan has uncovered "W" Bush's last words to Obama just before he boarded Marine One.  In an extremely awkward moment he held up his fingers to President Obama and said "Look Ma, I made poo."

 

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:09 | 455230 ewmayer
ewmayer's picture

BN 12:59 NOBEL LAUREATE, PRINCETON MEGA-EGGHEAD, CAT FANCIER AND ALL AROUND SUPER-SWELL NICE GUY EVEN THOUGH HE'S A LOONIE LEFTIE PAUL KRUGMAN SAYS "YOU CAN IN FACT BORROW YOUR WAY OUT OF DEBT", RECOMMENDS U.S. TAKE KEYNES` ADVICE AND REALLY BURY JARS FULL OF PAPER MONEY IN EVERYONE'S BACKYARD AND AUNT MILLIE'S FLOWER GARDEN AND EVEN THE OCCASIONAL PET LITTER BOX, ADDS "IF YOU FIND YOURSELF IN A DEEP HOLE, JUST KEEP DIGGING, AND EVENTUALLY YOU WILL TUNNEL ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE EARTH AND EMERGE ON THE OTHER SIDE - YOU JUST HAVE TO USE A REALLY BIG, REALLY STURDY SHOVEL. AS A MATTER OF FACT, I HAVE A TEAM OF GRADUATE STUDENTS WORKING ON A DEMONSTRATION OF THIS AS WE SPEAK. WE EXPECT TO TUNNEL ALL THE WAY UNDER THE PRINCETON CAMPUS, THUS PROVING THAT FISCAL STIMULUS REALLY WORKS!"

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:12 | 455238 Jim B
Jim B's picture

+ a trillion or two.....

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:12 | 455241 JR
JR's picture

The two problems we have are a) the postal crisis, and b) Krugman.   The solution is to make Krugman Postmaster.

If Krugman wants to start a new business, this is a great idea—have a monopoly on being able to serve every household and every business in the U.S. everyday and being able to charge them the limit of what they are willing to pay.  That alone would supercharge the recovery!  We’re talking every house!

Having been a fan of Krugman, I can see this would be the punch that this economy needs. He doesn’t have to be there forever!  He just needs to be there long enough to bring things into line.

They don’t give Nobel Prizes to dullards; this guy is Mensa material.  And by the way, the post office doesn’t get tax money; it gets “emergency price increases” to staunch its $7 billion losses and the full force of government protection against competition!  And if you mess with them it’s not Barney Fife that comes. It’s the FBI!

And with Krugman, the postal workers need to drop their union and join the teachers union.  You know what?  The teachers unions don’t have any problems; These people are coining it.  And Krugman’s a teacher ain’t he?  He could be head teacher.

We have too many government unions, anyway.  We need just one big government union with an open door to the U.S.treasury--one open door for Goldman and the other for the union.  That way, Krugman can just walk in and pick up a check whenever he needs it, just like Goldman! 

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:04 | 455399 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

One government union?--SEIU is striking for that gig.  Of course I = International, so after they take over, they can start outsourcing.

- Ned

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:26 | 455464 JR
JR's picture

Gad! And I thought I was being funny... When a government becomes a joke, it's time to get serious.  It wasn't so long ago that most states didn't allow public employee unions, for obvious reasons.  The workingman's poet, Carl Sandberg, would have a hard time with this one:

SEIU is focused on uniting workers in three sectors: health care (over half of the union's members work in the health care field), including hospital, home care and nursing home workers, public services (local and state government employees), and property services (including janitors, security officers and food service workers). – Wikipedia

Unbelievable! 

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:45 | 455520 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

I'm sure Krugman will go "postal" when his gig is finally up. I can think of quite a few of his "co-workers" I'd like to see him take with him.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:17 | 455244 Wyndtunnel
Wyndtunnel's picture

Okay fine QE2...but will any of it beyond a few crumbs actually make it into anyone's pocket?  And even if it does isn't there a good chance that the money would be used to simply pay down debt... I just spent 2 years getting my debt to zero and once you get past the half way mark the idea of being debt free becomes self-reinforcing... 

Do any of Kman's graphs give him or us an idea at what % of GDP personal debt has to fall before people are willing to leverage up again?  A lot of people might be dumb without being idiots.. They can still learn.  You suffer the kind of pain we're going through now and you won't borrow in any significant way for the rest of your life and you make sure your children and their children don't borrow against fantasy future income either.  How can Paulie just ignore the social context of what is going on? 

The government actually has to lead here. Obama is so good as saying "this is what we're gonna do" and then he sits on his hands and by the time his team of experts is done arguing it becomes "this is what we're gonna do now that two dozen cooks have spoiled the broth". YOUR THE PRESIDENT BARRY.  Make it so!  Be specific... set the course and crack the skulls of those who get in your way.

I have to say that I agree, in principal, that only a government with vision can lead the nation, and in this case the world, out of this mess.  All said and done the problem is that we have hit the wall with energy supply and we need to transition to something else.. Check out http://gregor.us/alternative-energy/the-intractability-of-the-built-environment/ for some insight on how energy relates to this existential clusterfuck we are experiencing. 

If the solution to a problem is unsufficiently scaled to the size of the problem, then at best we can say it’s a token solution. And token solutions are what the US has been trying out for 40 years, on the matter of energy. 8 billion for High Speed Rail? Sorry, but the restoration of rail in this country is an 800 billion dollar project and that would be just for the first wave. Adoption of electric vehicles, as part of some cultural need to maintain US car culture? Sure, at realistic adoption rates you might be running mostly on EVs in 150-200 years. Switch the powergrid to 100% renewable resources like Wind and Solar in ten years? Not likely. But maybe if you are willing to withdraw the entirety of US armed services from overseas, devote the entire military budget for 10 years, and match that workforce with highly skilled workers from the private sector, then maybe you can make a dent by 2020.

Obama echoed what he thought people wanted to hear.  We want to get off our dependancy on oil. Fine. So tell us how we are going to do it.  A market mechanism is too clumsy and would take too long to reach the desired results...especially given how corrupt our current market system is.  NASA is a department of government.  How many free marketeers are upset that Kennedy sent Americans to the Moon?  The President has to rally the spirit of America to fight a war against corruption on Wall Street and in Congress so that the Government can focus it's attention on transitioning to an alternative way of running the economy.  Maybe everyone should blog, paint, make music and movies? Or be lifeguards or whatever!  Perhaps there should be a guaranteed standard of living so long as you do something that you love for a living!  How many people are happy doing there job?  I'm sorry to say it but the fact that we live longer simply means that many of us get to be miserable longer.  Americans have been DEPRESSED in larger and larger numbers since the U.S. dollar came off the gold standard.. Coincidence? Maybe we should focus on creating an economy that is driven by PERSONAL GROWTH.  Assholes have run the roost for centuries.  Pussies need to figure out better ways to curtain their assholeness... Reminds me of a certain speach in Team America.

All I am saying is that America is eating itself right now. There is no leadership. Just a bunch of spoiled politicans, economists and pundits mooning each other trying to get the last word in.  Somewhere out there people are no doubt trying to figure out ways to take it down...both in the Bilderberg camp and the Tea Party camp and I would be very suprised if very powerful people in the military aren't starting to put some thought into how THEY can bring their influence to bear...  It's a fucking shit sandwich!  I have no doubt that things will reorganize themselves eventually but when the dust settles we might not like what we see or what we have to put up with in the name of "liberty".  The Bush years will be remembered fondly compared to what could be coming down the pipe.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:10 | 455413 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Wynd:

"And even if it does isn't there a good chance that the money would be used to simply pay down debt..."

... err... could you expand on this concept?

"Somewhere out there people are no doubt trying to figure out ways to take it down...both in the Bilderberg camp and the Tea Party camp and I would be very suprised if very powerful people in the military aren't starting to put some thought into how THEY can bring their influence to bear..." 

I think your identification of conspiracy groups is a lot off.  Probably not the Tea Partiers, almost certainly not the military.  Bilderbergers?  who knows.  Do you want to spot up around SDS?  Weather Underground? 

- Ned

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 18:31 | 455613 Wyndtunnel
Wyndtunnel's picture

Hey Ned.

My recent understanding of the matter is that these days money pretty much IS debt outstanding and that when debtors pay off their debts to the banks that money is destroyed.  We borrow against our future labour output so if almost everyone decides to take their stimulus money now and pay off their debt they are giving the money to the banks which take the loans of their books and thus reduce the money supply unless of course the banks are lending more than they are taking in..which I believe these days is not the case.   So if QE2 resulted in tons of people simply paying back their debts the consumer economy would be no further advanced.  I believe this would be true whether you give every American under a certain income treshold $50 000 cash or the money gets in their hands through QE2 created jobs.  If most of the money goes into debt repayment deflation would continue until people are comfortable enough to either spend some savings on more than necessities or couldn't resist going into debt for a new flatscreen or the latest iDevice.

The last round of stimulus didn't work because the banks hoarded instead of lending and then once they had paid off their TARP loans they used QE1 to make easy profits of Tbills and churned the rest via trading so that they could shower themselves with bonuses.. To do so so soon after they caused such a gigantic disaster was beyond the beyond of foolish.  I know for one it turned me on to the fact that Wall Street calls the shots in Washington and that neither has any demonstrable allegiance to the people that ultimately legitimize their existence.   I don't think QE2 would work...   Maybe giving every American a million dollars might work for awhile.  If am not mistaken that is ONLY roughly 300 trillion dollars.. Now that might get a party started!

As for conspiracy theories...I agree that my statements are HYPER conjectural...but where economies are run as banana republics and governments are deemed to be completely out of control seems to me the idea that the military can step in and restore order is not all that new or crazy an idea.  Unless there is a military coup of some kind leading to some form of benevolent Regency that can sort things out (and I know that seems just too crazy to even say but I wouldn't completely rule it out) I'm afraid the change that will come to America will be of a more malignant autocratic kind...  This is just my layman's synthesis of the info that I've been taking in for the past 20 years...  Is there any Great Empire that did not at some point, in the face of crushing debt and military overextension degenerate into some form of misguided dictatorship or at least crippling corruption to some degree?  America is not above the laws of human nature.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:14 | 455247 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Ah Krugman, the joke that never gets old.  Few more years and the Nobel Prize will have all the prestige of the Razzies.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:55 | 455544 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

Krugman, Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, Barry Soetoro ........

So hilarious that I forgot to laugh.

 

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:15 | 455251 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Shit must really be deteriorating if Krugtard is out there drumming for this already.  I mean, the last one was a couple tril and it was good for what, 14 months?

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:22 | 455276 Wyndtunnel
Wyndtunnel's picture

Do you remember back in Naughtie Eight when the initial $85 billion AIG bailout seemed so extravagant?

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:31 | 455299 sheeple
sheeple's picture

Krugman ... bitchez

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:18 | 455266 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

This guy is a smoker.....you know what I'm talking about:

 BN  11:58 *KRUGMAN SAYS FED SHOULD HAVE 3%-4% INFLATION TARGET LONG TERM

 

Ok Paul, let's assume my gas bill is $100 this year and remains constant for 10 years under your "4% goal":

Y1: $104 Y2: $108.16 Y3: $112.49 Y4: $117 Y5: $121.67 Y6: $126.5 Y7: $131.6 Y8: $136.9 Y9: $142.3 Y10: $148

That's called "compound inflation" you dickhead, tell that to the struggling masses already at breaking point and see how far that gets you.......tool.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:42 | 455329 Shameful
Shameful's picture

How else can the masses be robbed of their purchasing power? How else can Uncle Sugar get more into higher tax brackets? The ponzi feeds off inflation. Working as designed.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:02 | 455389 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Steve,

ALL of us would gladly settle for that, instead of what Obama has coming..........that's piss ant change.

He's going to start at double you 10yr, off the bat.

BTW, I am REALLY pissed...............we have another damned STAMP increase!!!!!!!!!........every year since 2006.

$.46, and the sorry Bstds lose 50% of my mail NOW...........

Now, that is really something to be pissed about.(:>)

As my friggin roof falls in............

Wonder if a group of us can move to Somlia, and join the Pirates?.At least their honest while robbing your ass.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:30 | 455295 sheeple
sheeple's picture

I wanna junk Paul Krugman, where's the button?

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:51 | 455359 Remington IV
Remington IV's picture

Princeton economics department .....  

 

chimp city

 

.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:16 | 455434 stoverny
stoverny's picture

From David Brooks' editorial in today's NY Times:

"These Demand Siders have very high I.Q.’s, but they seem to be strangers to doubt and modesty. They have total faith in their models. But all schools of economic thought have taken their lumps over the past few years. Are you really willing to risk national insolvency on the basis of a model?

Moreover, the Demand Siders write as if everybody who disagrees with them is immoral or a moron. But, in fact, many prize-festooned economists do not support another stimulus. Most European leaders and central bankers think it’s time to begin reducing debt, not increasing it — as do many economists at the international economic institutions. Are you sure your theorists are right and theirs are wrong?"

 

HMMMMMM I WONDER WHO BROOKS IS REFERRING TO?

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:40 | 455514 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Never trust anyone that claims any dissenting opinion not in agreement with their own is lunacy.

In fact, go ahead and  shoot them and then you don't have to worry about trusting them at all.

 

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:35 | 455480 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Maria Bartiromo just trotted out some old fossil this afternoon on Closing Bell to say the same thing. 

"We can afford it!!!"

He actually said it will pay for itself because all those people we are borrowing money to employ will pay a portion of their salary back to the government as taxes.

I shit you not.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1538569699&play=1

It's a must see.  Freaking priceless.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 18:32 | 455621 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Same logic as those who say, "Legalise the illegal aliens and they will pay taxes."  Well, maybe, but for every dollar of taxes they pay they take out ten dollars of services or social welfare spending. Right up there with Pelosi's comment that unemployment payments create jobs. 

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 21:42 | 455906 stoverny
stoverny's picture

Bad analogy imo.  An illegal immigrant who is made legal, who works and pays taxes, is no more of a drain on the system than any other low-wage US citizen who works and pays taxes. 

In fact, getting taxes from them is clearly superior to kicking them out, assuming they do productive labor.  Like it or not, we need young people to pay for the old,  and Hispanic immigrants have far more children than white Americans.  Probably why Bush wanted amnesty, he knew it was the only long-term hope for an aging and decrepit America. 

 

Wed, 07/07/2010 - 01:02 | 456114 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

With 15 million unemployed citizens, it's really hard to make the argument for why we need any additional labor in this country right now.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 17:44 | 455516 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Yes we DO and DID need infrastructure spending, For years now.

But our wars, bank bailouts and other wasteful spending will not allow for that type of "stimulus" anymore.

Thank every president since Ford for the fabulous reach around.

 

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 19:00 | 455664 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

You got a reach around?

I feel like I got flowers, foreplay, and chloroform.

Wed, 07/07/2010 - 12:28 | 456729 Assetman
Assetman's picture

Very nice... you sound classy. ;)

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 19:18 | 455687 JR
JR's picture

There is method in Krugman’s madness…

“What’s the next Federal Reserve? What’s the next Medicare?” asks economist Michael Rozeff.  Answer: “It’s an international central bank: the IMF reborn. The IMF is the International Monetary Fund… a key building block in world government.”

The excerpt below is from his article this week: International Banking Colossus in the Making:

The U.S. is the prime mover and controller of the IMF’s bailouts, loans, and rescues.

The world’s States cooperate, compete, and sometimes make war against each other.

In the modern age, their cooperation through such institutions as the United Nations and the IMF is a form of political cartelization. It enhances each State’s control over its own people. It removes the peoples of the world from the loop of power and control over their governments.

The IMF bails out profligate governments that are spending more than their taxes permit and that are running inflationary monetary policies. Just as bailouts and deposit guarantees of U.S. banks permit the banks to overextend loans, so does the IMF create moral hazard at the country level.

The "deep troubles" and "currency crises" and "banking crises" that the IMF patches up are wounds that countries inflict upon themselves by State control of economies. The IMF reinforces State economic control.

These crises are products of State control over economies and fiat currencies. They are products of central banks in conjunction with fractional-reserve banking systems.

The IMF supplies bandages. It tapes up the wounds so as to keep the overall State-controlled economies and fiat money system going.

When economic difficulties surface due to the State-controlled economies, they often show up in currency, banking, and balance of payments difficulties. Frequently, there is a flight of capital and asset prices decline. The IMF is an international reflation (inflation) institution. It can become the focal institution for arranging swap lines emanating from central banks or financial commitments emanating from State treasuries in order to shore up a country in trouble.

The IMF is an institution of the States, by the States, and for the States. As such, it is basically anti-people and anti-liberty.

At the latest G20 summit, the members moved forward to build up the IMF:

"The world's top economic powers and the International Monetary Fund are studying creation of a global financial safety net that would give countries quick access to large amounts of cash as a way to stave off crises and discourage emerging-market nations from hoarding foreign reserves.

"In what would be a significant reordering of IMF operations, the proposals would change the agency from a solely reactive one – waiting for countries in trouble to ask for help – to a more activist organization that tries to anticipate where a crisis will spread and move in with enough money to calm markets and prevent broader problems.

"The idea may require a substantial increase in the amount of money that countries pledge to the IMF and a significant liberalization of its lending rules, potentially controversial changes." …

If the IMF and the States had their way, they would completely control exchange rates and interest rates. They would control capital markets. They would prevent investors from enforcing any kind of discipline on sovereign borrowing and government spending.

Add this alarm bell to a long list of others. Add this grievance to a long list of others. What do they add up to? They add up to the necessity for very great political change. ...

They cannot be fought on a case-by-case basis. The system has to be shattered..

http://www.lewrockwell.com

Wed, 07/07/2010 - 00:37 | 456079 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The "Triple Curve" will rule them all:

http://larouchepac.com/node/12066

 

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 19:23 | 455694 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

 BN  11:58 *NOBEL LAUREATE KRUGMAN says he is going to marry me and we will travel the world

 BN  11:58 *KRUGMAN SAYS He loves my small boobs and can't see any cellulite

 BN  11:58 *KRUGMAN SAYS I am more fun than hanging out with his friends

 BN  11:58 *KRUGMAN SAYS he never even noticed how hot his secretary is

 BN  11:58 *PRINCETON'S KRUGMAN: I will be working late, do not wait up for me

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 20:08 | 455764 mtguy
mtguy's picture

Or how about Rep. Pete Starks comment from a while back where he argued that more debt = more wealth. Couldn't find the utube video to attach, but I'm sure its out there. What is in that California water?

BTW, Tyler, you must be expecting some of these K-economists and politicians to sign in and comment as the CAPTCHA didn't even require a calculator. That's considerate of you.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 20:19 | 455778 DosZap
DosZap's picture

OT, But, had to put it somewhere.................sorry

 

How we missed(I missed it), I'll never know...Jesse..read on.

 

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2010/07/imf-engaged-in-gold-swaps-to-about-380.html

Wed, 07/07/2010 - 06:43 | 456219 dcb
dcb's picture

For gods sake don't blame krugman. No policy happens at the federal reserve without wall streets approval. So you can look at the goldman article as telling the fed what they want. second look at bernanke and yellin as the clowns who run the place. Lastly before any of this came around take what Marc Faber said about bernanke and the Fed only knowing how to print money. I must add that from the start I have always assumed the intention of the fed to solve the crisis was to destroy the value of our currency. that has been their plan since 1913 except for small periods.

 

Krugman's problem is that he is so in the system he can't think outside of the box of ways to stimulate the economy without the printing press.

Wed, 07/07/2010 - 07:14 | 456234 dcb
dcb's picture

you should all visit krugmans personal page and write informed pieces about why je is wrong. I did

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herry's picture

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