Paul Ryan Speaks On The "Catastrophic Trajectory" Of US Debt

Tyler Durden's picture

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
66Sexy's picture

you humans are as weak as you are ugly. we are coming for your ships, your planet, your people.

CPL's picture

shhhh...

I for one welcome our draconian alien overlords, only caveate.  Don't fuck up like the previous bone heads, and make sure you use every piece of our filthy human corpses unless you opt to make us into house pets.

plocequ1's picture

Im not human, But i do like pancakes.

Chuck Norris's picture

I'm cool with that as long as you keep your tentacles off my silver.

Sudden Debt's picture

luckely you don't eat brains, because if you landed in Texas first, you'de starve...

 

NoLongerABagHolder's picture

Ryan is the most dangerous man in America.

He - like most here, do not understand the current monetary system we live in, thus mistaking the current system for the old gold standard. He and many of you would do yourself wonders by spending time learning about Modern Monetary Theory, and understand why the US is not like a household or state government.

Everything ZH rants about would be true if we still lived in the old gold standard way of life. This is not saying the current system is the right way, just saying the idea of a bond market collapse is absurd in the current system.

You do that, and you will finally have answers why the whole system didn't fall apart and the stock market end up at 500 like you all thought it would.

And you will udnerstand why Gold is not already at $5000 like you were sure it would be.

MrPike's picture

You can take "Modern Monetary Theory" and cram it up your ass. It should not be given sucha scientific sounding name.  Instead it should read "How to Central Plan," because that's all it is.  

NoLongerABagHolder's picture

You show your idiocy in that you obviously don't get it either.....

Bartanist's picture

I did not understand MMT, so looked it up on Wikipedia. It seems to be one of those things that just because it says "Modern" does not mean that it is actually modern or good for the economy. A similar example might be the Commodity Futures "Mondernization" Act of 2000 which made bucket shop bets, banned in the 1920s legal again... and so the whole derivaties Ponzi was created, allowing the unhedgable to be hedged on paper.

In its contemporary form, MMT states that there are four essential features to most fiat monetary systems in existence today:[7]

  • A floating exchange rate;
  • Fiat money is used as a means of exchange, and is not convertible into gold or any other commodity;
  • The government has the exclusive right to issue the particular fiat currency;
  • The government only accepts its own fiat currency for payment of taxes and any other liabilities owed to the government.

Although MMT is a monetary theory, theorists avoid the use of the imprecise term money, and prefer instead to use the term financial assets. This term is used to refer to any non-physical assets such as cash, bonds, bank deposits and stocks. Within this framework, MMT broadly describes the following areas of the economy:

  • Vertical transactions between the government sector and the non-government sector. This considers the effect of government spending and taxation, and concludes that government spending adds financial assets to an economy, whereas taxation removes it.[8]
  • Interaction between government and the private banking sector. This examines the mechanics of government spending, specifically, the effect that interest rate maintenance by the central bank has on the economy. It concludes that if a central bank wishes to maintain a target interest rate, it is always forced to intervene in the government bond market. Effectively, the central bank has no control over how much the government spends, and thus the government is not constrained in its spending desires.[9]
  • Horizontal transactions refers to transactions between private actors in an economy. This concludes that net financial assets cannot be created by private banks since loans always create deposits. However, the money supply can certainly be expanded via the issuance of private credit, and in this sense, MMT overlaps with monetary circuit theory. Both MMT and monetary circuit theory therefore reject the mainstream idea of the money multiplier.[1]
  • The external sector, which studies the effect that imports and exports within an open economy have on the economy of a fiat currency regime with a floating exchange rate. MMT uses horizontal theory to point out that a nation’s currency ultimately never leaves that nation; similarly, MMT then points out that foreign holdings of government debt do not affect government solvency. MMT also concludes that imports are a benefit and exports are a cost to a nations, but conversely accepts the possibility of negative currency shocks on an import-dependent nation.[7]
[edit] Criticism

Within the framework of Chartalism, some criticize the details of these assumptions. For example, Febrero[10] argues that modern money draws its value from its ability to cancel (private) bank debt, particularly as legal tender, rather than to pay government taxes.

In the couple of minutes that I have taken to think about this, there seem to be some inconsistencies:

a) the Fed is not the US government. It is a privately owned bank. And it taxes through manditory interest owed to it, just as the government taxes through multitudes other means... The banks tax and not necessarily in conjunction with the government.

b) the Fed put a lot more money into the economy than the US government did with TARP. It exchanged large amounts of financial assets (money) for small amounts of financial assets.

c) there is no accounting for the misallocation of resources. All money is treated as if it is the same thing whether it goes to build a bridge or bribe a Congressman. Yet, one has value in utility and the other not.

d) in MMT there does not appear to be any connection between value and money. Value is created through labor and money is created out of thin air.

e) exchange rates do not necessarily float. They may move, but they don't necessarily float as they would in a free market economy.

MMT has the smell of a rationalization "after the fact" and while in essence it may be true that this is the system that we live under, it seems to not judge the consequences of its existence.... such as the implied inflation of the money supply and ever declining purchasing power under a government and country that continually creates and spends money, but never produces anything... other than war. It works until the "take my money in exchange for your physical assets or I'll kick your ass" method of diplomacy no longer is effective.

falak pema's picture

That's what DSK was trying to explain to that girl Ophelia : MMS!

A private special lesson on MMS, what's known as a crammer course.

That dumb judge and the NYPD just don't get it!

AurorusBorealus's picture

I agree that Ryan is dangerous, because he appears, to the dim-witted, reasonable and responsible, willing to work within the existing system to reduce the inefficient misallocation of resources that our government money-printing machine produces.  He is the reformer, the practical man: a tweak here and a tweak there and everything should be fine.  The fact of the matter is that tweaking the broken machine of the American state is no fix.  Bold vision and decisive leadership is required, not the consensus-crafting and team-building that holds hostage American's limited imagination of what constitutes good leadership.

Perhaps it is you who do not understand modern monetary theory or the reality of money.  Fiat currency holds value only because people believe in the state.  State money-printing by banks or treasury, linked to debt or conjured from Treasury alchemy, leads to crony capitalism, fascism, and the misallocation of resources: all of which destroys faith in the state.

Just like they used to say in the Soviet Union, "We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us."  Have a look at the vast horde of Americans working in government agencies and crony capitalist industries.  Indeed they do pretend to work, but actually produce nothing of consequence.  That is your modern monetary theory in action.  Economics is much more than academic theories about money supply, velocity, statistics, and probability.  The purpose of an economic system is to distribute scarce resources in a just manner and allow for human ingenuity to improve the capacity of man.  Show me how your MMT does this.  In practice, it is a complete farce.

NoLongerABagHolder's picture

You say: "Fiat currency holds value only because people believe in the state."

This statement is foundationally incorrect, and part of the reason for the constant doom and gloom. Any currency from the state holds value because they have the laws and guns to put you in jail if you don't in fact pay them their taxes in the currency they tell you to pay it in. Which is why you will never be able to buy things en masse for gold. You will first have to convert that gold into whatever the currency the state tells you to pay taxes in, because the businesses you want to buy from have a tax liability in US Dollars, not gold. Therefore, they exchange labor and goods and services to get their hands on the state money to extinguish the tax liability and stay out of jail, and hopefully have some left over.

If the tax system breaks down (think Greece) then you have some problems.

ZH'ers miss this key point. They keep saying "quit ruining OUR money" It's not your money. It's the states money and you are being coerced into having to get your hands on some in order to stay out of jail. That is the true crime. Even though you think Gold is real money, it's not, because you still have to exchange it for the state issued currency in order to extinguish your IRS liabilities and stay out of jail.

MMT should be renamed Modern Monetary Reality. It isn't "theory", but aptly describes the system we are in..... and no - it is not Keynsianism and Paul Krugman does not in fact understand it either.

Take the time to get your head around it, and you will see with clarity why Japan, with 250% debt to GDP - still struggles with deflation, and why we will be heading down that long fight for years.

ColonelCooper's picture

" They keep saying "quit ruining OUR money" It's not your money. It's the states money and you are being coerced into having to get your hands on some in order to stay out of jail."

You are every bit missing the "point" as much as the ZH'ers you chide.  We understand this concept, and reject it.  You seem to be willing to polish statist knob, while the people you label as dense have already choked and are beginning to take back what is ours.  Will we be successful?  Quite likely not.  I hope you are comfortable in your pussy ass servitude.

NoLongerABagHolder's picture

Quit sniffing glue.....

You reject it?

Yet you still work for dollars and have them and buy and sell in them?

You haven't rejected anything. You have ideals but are too pussy to do anything about it.

I'll believe your bravado when you are sitting in prison because you won't transact business or pay taxes in US dollars, and are standing up for what you believe in.

You haven't rejected anything but reality at this point.

toady's picture

This is an interesting string of comments. Rejecting the dollar DOES create problems. What will happen when the world rejects the dollar? We will be glad we spent all that money on those aircraft carriers... Thats the extream edge of dollar rejection. On the level of this discussion, dollar rejection is difficult. As stated, citizens are forced to pay in dollars or face imprisonment, but most people (I hope!) are smart enough to get around the problem. I keep most of my assets in stores other than the dollar, and leave just enough in dollars to pay 'the Man' in his prefered currency.

Dugald's picture

 "Bold vision and decisive leadership is required"

You can't handle it!!!!!!!! Ergo, you are cactus fucktus 

RexZeedog's picture

Modern monetary theory is based in large measure on fiscal stimulus programs which are justified via the false premise of a "multiplier effect".

Take a few minutes and read the 1st three articles on WSJ.com which show up in this google search: http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=multiplier+effect+w...

NoLongerABagHolder's picture

Wrong yet again. MMT has thouroughly shown time and again that the multiplier effect is a sham and it breaks down...... which is why QE is a non-event.

You need to keep reading so you understand what it is you are arguing against.....

http://pragcap.com/the-myth-of-the-money-multiplier-a-follow-up

and even better:

http://pragcap.com/the-austrians-are-intrigued

NotAllowed's picture

all your bases are belng to us

JLee2027's picture

The GP is just starting to learn about sound money and the need for it. The pols won't do squat until the public is screaming in pain for it.

Clorox Cowboy's picture

Hmmm...the two-headed monster turns on the Fed?  Me likey :)

redpill's picture

OT: The Nipponese Black Swan Continues to Soar

Fukushima Disaster is a Complete Triple Meltdown in Reactors 1-3, Tepco Finally Admits

http://enenews.com/reactor-no-1-core-had-a-total-meltdown-and-uranium-fuel-may-be-outside-the-concrete-containment-building-nuclear-reaction-could-have-restarted

carbonmutant's picture

Swans are beginning to Flock...

I Told YOU So's picture

X-rated swans? haha flock, not f*ck......sorry

The Profit Prophet's picture

Good work RP....please keep it up! It's absolutly amazing to see the large-scale apathy over this unprecedented tragedy now playing itself out on a site like ZH.  I hope the fool who junked you has been buying and eating Cesium 137 California strawberries  "because he just can't believe the awesome price lately"!!!

T.E.I.N. everyone!

NOTW777's picture

"The Fed’s recent departures from rules-based monetary policy have increased economic uncertainty and endangered the central bank’s independence."

way too polite for chairsatan

lolmao500's picture

 

 In the coming years, our debt is projected to grow to more than three times the size of our entire economy.

BS.

lieutenantjohnchard's picture

the true deficit is $5.5 trillion if you add in fannie and freddie gse's and use gaap accounting. the numbers he cites are correct.

dexter_morgan's picture

By BS, I suspect you mean it will be much larger.........

lolmao500's picture

Not will be, it's ALREADY bigger than that. The true US debt is something like 100 trillion and the real US GDP is like 10-12 trillion...

downwiththebanks's picture

I couldn't bear reading the whole thing.  

How many wars for the contractors who own him and bailouts for the banker-gangsters who own him does he project over this time?

bob_dabolina's picture

Cash will be king by the time this is all said and done.

gorillaonyourback's picture

your rational for that statement is?

bob_dabolina's picture

I've explained this ad nauseum so I'll just make this as quick and pithy as possible.

#1 The two sides won't agree

#2 Imagine all those pensioners who have been spending their retirement checks on gold/silver. Well, let's assume they get cut off from those checks, what do you think they are going to do? How about the clamoring for dollars by every single government agency? EVERYONE is going to want dollars.

That's as far as I'm willing to go right now, there's lot's of other stuff, I'm just tired of typing it over and over again.

tmosley's picture

Then cut and paste it.

Also, I lol that you think retirees on fixed incomes are buying any significant amount of gold or silver.  That is quite possibly the dumbest PM bear rational I've ever heard.

bob_dabolina's picture

Like I said there is a lot to it, that is just one small facet.

Maybe I will do that. I'll just write one long post and save it to my desktop, so I can copy/paste it in the future. That's about the smartest thing I've ever heard come out of you tmosely. Good job, keep up the good work.

The Profit Prophet's picture

Great idea! I can't wait to junk to full unedited version of the twisted drool that that would comprise such an idiotic perspective.

T.E.I.N. everyone!

bob_dabolina's picture

I see. You're the type of person who can't hold a family together...if you have kids they probably despise and have no respect for you.

I can see why. If junking my comments helps your self-esteem then I feel happy I can assist in the rehabilitation of your emotionally torn up ego.

The Profit Prophet's picture

Once again you have proven your analytical skills to be adolescent at best. Your statements above are almost as far-off as your view on fiat.

I would advise those paying for your comments to put you administrative review.

T.E.I.N. everyone!

knowless's picture

i would like to know in detail why you think the dollar will live.

in a deflationary event people will hock whatever for whatever dollars there are, then once they get the dollars, people holding key assets will still seek profit after hocking what they had for the same minimal dollars to purchase scarcity, so no matter what, people who end up with necessities will demand more than people can accumulate.. a reciprocating cycle of people with no wealth playing into a system which takes profit.. why would people keep playing that game when they are starving?

 

i am a dishwasher, all be warned.

 

SilverDOG's picture

"EVERYONE is going to want dollars"

 

Excluding any country exporting to the USA.

Your shelves will be EMPTY for EVERYONE.

The boomers dollar/cash training will work as well as their Viagra addiction. 

Making them stiff.