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Paul Ryan Speaks On The "Catastrophic Trajectory" Of US Debt

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Shared Scarcity versus Renewed Prosperity

Economic Club of Chicago Remarks as Prepared for Delivery by Paul Ryan

May 16, 2011

Thank you so much, Anne, for the kind introduction.

I want to thank you all for inviting me to speak. It was especially
gracious of you to host me, even though I’m a Packers fan and I assume
most of you are Bears fans.

But that doesn’t mean we can’t work together. As chairman of the
House Budget Committee, I stand ready to do whatever it takes to help
you re-sign Jay Cutler.

I’m here to talk about the economy today – about the need to get four quarters of strong, consistent performance.

That wasn’t another Jay Cutler joke, I swear. It could be, but it’s not.

I’ll come to the point. Despite talk of a recovery, the economy is
badly underperforming. Growth last quarter came in at just 1.8 percent.
We’re not even creating enough jobs to employ new workers entering the
job market, let alone the six million workers who lost their jobs during
the recession.

The rising cost of living is becoming a serious problem for many
Americans. The Fed’s aggressive expansion of the money supply is clearly
contributing to major increases in the cost of food and energy.

An even bigger threat comes from the rapidly growing cost of health
care, a problem made worse by the health care law enacted last year.

Most troubling of all, the unsustainable trajectory of government
spending is accelerating the nation toward a ruinous debt crisis.

This crisis has been decades in the making. Republican
administrations, including the last one, have failed to control
spending. Democratic administrations, including the present one, have
not been honest about the cost of the tax burden required to fund their
expansive vision of government. And Congresses controlled by both
parties have failed to confront our growing entitlement crisis. There is
plenty of blame to go around.

Years of ignoring the drivers of our debt have left our nation’s
finances in dismal shape. In the coming years, our debt is projected to
grow to more than three times the size of our entire economy.

This trajectory is catastrophic. By the end of the decade, we will be spending 20 percent of our tax revenue simply paying interest on the debt – and that’s according to optimistic projections. If ratings agencies such as S&P move from downgrading our outlook to downgrading our credit, then interest rates will rise even higher, and debt service will cost trillions more.

This course is not sustainable. That isn’t an opinion; it’s a
mathematical certainty. If we continue down our current path, we are
walking right into the most preventable crisis in our nation’s history.

So the question is, how do we avoid it?

The answer is simple. We have to make responsible choices today, so that our children don’t have to make painful choices tomorrow.

If you look at what’s driving our debt, the explosive growth in
spending is the result of health care costs spiraling out of control.

By the time my children are raising families of their own, literally
every dollar we raise in revenue will be paying for three major
entitlement programs.

Some of this is demographic – every day, ten thousand baby boomers retire and start collecting Medicare and Social Security.

But a lot of it is simply due to the fact that health care costs are rising faster than the economy is growing. Revenues simply cannot keep up.

It’s basic math – we cannot solve our fiscal or economic challenges unless we get health care costs under control.

The budget passed by the House last month takes credible steps
to controlling health care costs. It aims to do two things: to put our
budget on a path to balance, and to put our economy on a path to

I am here today to stress the point that these goals go hand in hand.
Stable government finances are essential to a growing economy, and
economic growth is essential to balancing the budget.

The name of our budget is The Path to Prosperity.

See, right now, we’re finally having a debate in Washington about how
to address our fiscal problems. But we’re still not having the debate
we need to have.

To an alarming degree, the budget debate has degenerated into a game
of green-eyeshade arithmetic, with many in Washington – including the
President – demanding that we trade ephemeral spending restraints for
large, permanent tax increases.

This sets up a debate in which we are really just arguing over who to
hurt and how best to manage the decline of our nation. It is a
framework that accepts ever-higher taxes and bureaucratically rationed
health care as givens.

I call it the “shared scarcity” mentality. The missing ingredient is economic growth.

Shared scarcity represents a deeply pessimistic vision for the future
of this country – one in which we all pay more and we all get less. I
believe it would leave us with a nation that is less prosperous and less

To begin with, chasing ever-higher spending with ever-higher tax
rates will decrease the number of makers in society and increase the
number of takers. Able-bodied Americans will be discouraged from working
and lulled into lives of complacency and dependency.

Worse – when it becomes obvious that taxing the rich doesn’t generate
nearly enough revenue to cover Washington’s empty promises – austerity
will be the only course left. A debt-fueled economic crisis will force
massive tax increases on everyone and indiscriminate cuts on current
beneficiaries – without giving them time to prepare or adjust. And,
given the expansive growth of government, many of these critical
decisions will fall to bureaucrats we didn’t elect. 

Shared scarcity impedes economic growth, results in harsh austerity, and ends with lost freedom. 

In a recent speech he gave in response to our budget, President Obama
outlined a deficit-reduction approach that, in my view, defines shared
scarcity. The President’s plan begins with trillions of dollars in
higher taxes, and it relies on a plan to control costs in Medicare that
would give a board of 15 unelected bureaucrats in Washington the power
to deeply ration care. This would disrupt the lives of those currently in retirement and lead to waiting lists for today’s seniors.

Now in criticizing the President’s policies, I should make clear that
I am not disputing for a moment that he inherited a difficult fiscal
situation when he took office. He did.

Millions of American families had just seen their dreams destroyed by
misguided policies and irresponsible leadership that caused a financial
disaster. The crisis squandered the nation’s savings and crippled its

The emergency actions taken by the government in the fall of 2008 did
help to arrest the ensuing panic. But subsequent interventions – such
as the President’s stimulus law and the Fed’s unprecedented monetary
easing – have done much more harm than good, in my judgment.

In the aftermath of the crisis, we needed government to repair the
free-market foundations of the American economy, as it did under Reagan
in the early 1980s, by restraining spending… keeping taxes low…
enforcing reasonable, predictable regulations… and protecting the value
of the dollar.

Instead, leaders in Washington embarked on an unprecedented spending
spree… enacted a deeply flawed overhaul of financial rules… passed a new
health care law that raised taxes by $800 billion… and encouraged a
sharp departure from a rules-based monetary policy, which created even
more economic uncertainty. 

In the 2010 election, the voters sent a message: This isn’t working. Washington needs to try something else.

We know what that something else must be, because we know what has
always made growth possible in America. We need to answer that call for
new economic leadership by getting back to the four foundations of
economic growth:

First, we have to stop spending money we don’t have, and ultimately that means getting health care costs under control.

Second, we have to restore common sense to the regulatory
environment, so that regulations are fair, transparent, and do not
inflict undue uncertainty on America’s employers.

Third, we have to keep taxes low and end the year-by-year approach to
tax rates, so that job creators have incentives to invest in America;

Fourth, we have to refocus the Federal Reserve on price stability,
instead of using monetary stimulus to bail out Washington’s failures,
because businesses and families need sound money.

Let me deal with each in order.

The first foundation, real spending discipline: it’s pretty simple.
You can’t get real, sustainable growth by continuing to pile on the
debt. More debt means more uncertainty, and more uncertainty means fewer

The rating agency S&P just downgraded the outlook on U.S. debt
from “stable” to “negative.” That sends a signal to job creators. If
S&P is telling them that America is a bad investment, they’re not
going to expand and create jobs in America – not at the rate we need
them to.

Mounting debt also threatens our poorest and most vulnerable
citizens, because those who depend most on government would be hit
hardest by a fiscal crisis. We have to repair our safety net programs so
that they are there for those who need them most. This starts by
building on the successful, bipartisan welfare reforms of the mid-1990s.

Our reforms save the social safety net by giving more power to
governors to create strong, flexible programs that better serve the
needs of their populations. Most important, they make these programs

As we strengthen welfare for those who need it, we propose to end it
for those who don’t. We end wasteful corporate welfare for those such as
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, big agribusinesses, and others that have
gotten a free ride from the taxpayer for too long.

All of these steps are necessary to getting spending under control.
But they are not enough. We cannot avert a debt crisis unless we
directly address the rising cost of health care.

Getting health care costs under control is critical, both for solving our fiscal mess and
for promoting growth. One reason that many people aren’t getting raises
is that rising health care costs are eating into their paychecks.

The second foundation addresses the growing scourge of crony
capitalism, in which Washington bureaucrats abuse the regulatory process
to pick winners and losers in the private economy.

Congressional Republicans continue to advance reforms that stop
regulatory bureaucrats from strangling job growth and innovation with
red tape. We’ve advanced legislation to stop the EPA from imposing
job-destroying energy caps on American businesses.

We’ve advanced legislation to revisit the flawed Dodd-Frank law,
which actually intensifies the problem of too-big-to-fail by giving
large, interconnected financial institutions advantages that small firms
do not enjoy.

But most important, we propose to repeal the new health care law and
its burdensome maze of new regulations. It’s bad enough that the law
imposes an unconstitutional mandate on every American; it also imposes
new regulations on businesses, which are stifling job creation.

Let me share with you a figure that serves as a devastating
indictment of the new health care law: So far, over 1,000 businesses and
organizations have been granted waivers from the law’s onerous
mandates. These waivers may prevent job losses now, but they do not
guarantee relief in the future, nor do they help those firms that lack
the connections to lobby for waivers.

This is no way to create jobs in America. True, bipartisan health care reform starts by repealing this partisan law.

The third foundation recognizes that we cannot get our economy back
on track if Washington tries to tax its way out of this mess.

The economics profession has been really clear about this – higher marginal tax rates create a drag on economic growth.

As the University of Chicago’s John Cochrane recently wrote: “No
country ever solved a debt problem by raising tax rates. Countries that
solved debt problems grew, so that reasonable tax rates times much
higher income produced lots of tax revenue. Countries that did not grow
inflated or defaulted.”

Higher taxes are not the answer.

Finally, the fourth foundation calls for rules-based monetary policy
to protect working families and seniors from the threat of high

The Fed’s recent departures from rules-based monetary policy have
increased economic uncertainty and endangered the central bank’s

Advocates of these aggressive interventions cite the “maximum
employment” aspect of the Fed’s dual mandate – its other mandate being
price stability.

Congress should end the Fed’s dual mandate and task the central bank
instead with the single goal of long-run price stability. The Fed should
also explicitly publish and follow a monetary rule as its means to
achieve this goal.

These are our four foundations of economic growth. And the
House-passed budget starts the long, arduous, and necessary process of
restoring these foundations and building a prosperous future.

We lift the crushing burden debt by cutting spending and reforming
those government programs that drive the debt. We reduce the deficit by
over a third in the first year of our budget, putting an end to the era
of trillion-dollar deficits. The House-passed budget doesn’t just put
the budget on a path to balance – it actually pays off the debt over

We can’t achieve this goal by simply rubber-stamping increases in the
national debt limit without reducing spending in Washington.

Speaker Boehner made this clear in a recent speech at the Economic
Club of New York: If the debt ceiling has to be raised, then we’ve got
to cut spending. The House-passed budget contained $6.2 trillion in
spending cuts. For every dollar the President wants to raise the debt
ceiling, we can show him plenty of ways to cut far more than a dollar of
spending. Given the magnitude of our debt burden, the size of the
spending cuts should exceed the size of the President’s debt limit

The House-passed budget also gets health care spending under control
by empowering Americans to fight back against skyrocketing costs. Our
budget makes no changes for those in or near retirement, and offers
future generations a strengthened Medicare program they can count on,
with guaranteed coverage options, less help for the wealthy, and more
help for the poor and the sick. 

There is widespread, bipartisan agreement that the open-ended,
fee-for-service structure of Medicare is a key driver of health-care
cost inflation. As my friend Jim Capretta, a noted health-care policy
expert, likes to say, Medicare is not the train being pulled along by
the engine of rising costs. Medicare is the engine – and the rest of us are getting taken for a ride.

The disagreement isn’t really about the problem. It’s about the
solution to controlling costs in Medicare. And if I could sum up that
disagreement in a couple of sentences, I would say this: Our plan is to
give seniors the power to deny business to inefficient providers. Their
plan is to give government the power to deny care to seniors.

We also disagree about how best to deliver the tax reform that Americans have long demanded from Washington.

Here’s a quick story about tax policy. Twenty-five years ago, GE CEO
Jack Welch introduced himself to this very club by saying, “I represent a
company that doesn’t pay taxes.”

I guess some things never change. 

We have to broaden the tax base, so corporations cannot game the
system. The House-passed budget calls for scaling back or eliminating
loopholes and carve-outs in the tax code that are distorting economic

We do this, not to raise taxes, but to create space for lower tax
rates and a level playing field for innovation and investment. America’s
corporate tax rate is the highest in the developed world. Our
businesses need a tax system that is more competitive.

A simpler, fairer tax code is needed for the individual side, too.
Individuals, families, and employers spend over six billion hours and
over $160 billion per year figuring out how to pay their taxes. It’s time to clear out the tangle of credits and deductions and lower tax rates to promote growth.

The House-passed budget does that by making the tax code simpler…
flatter… fairer… more globally competitive… and less burdensome for
working families and small businesses.

By contrast, the President says he wants to eliminate deductions, but he also wants to raise
rates. That includes raising the top rate to 44.8 percent. That would
amount to a $1.5 trillion tax increase on families and job creators.

The President says that only the richest people in America
would be affected by his plan… Class warfare may be clever politics, but
it is terrible economics. Redistributing wealth never creates more of

Further, the math is clear – the government cannot close its enormous
fiscal gap simply by taxing the rich. This gap grows by trillions of
dollars each year, representing tens of trillions in unfunded promises
to future generations that the government has no plan to keep.

There’s a civic side to this as well. Sowing social unrest and class
envy makes America weaker, not stronger. Playing one group against
another only distracts us from the true sources of inequity in this
country – corporate welfare that enriches the powerful, and empty
promises that betray the powerless.

Those committed to the mindset of “shared scarcity” are telling
future generations, sorry, you’re just going to have to make do with
less. Your taxes will go up, because Washington can’t get government
spending down.

They are telling future generations, you know, there’s just not much
we can do about health care costs. Government spending on health care is
going to keep going up and up and up… and when we can’t borrow or tax
another dollar, we’ll have to give a board of unelected bureaucrats the
power to tell you what kind of treatments you can and can’t receive.

If we succumb to this view that our problems are bigger than we are –
if we surrender more control over our economy to the governing class –
then we are choosing shared scarcity over renewed prosperity, and
managed decline over economic growth.

That’s the real class warfare that threatens us – a class of
governing elites picking winners and losers, and determining our
destinies for us.

We face a choice between two futures. We can continue to go down the
path toward shared scarcity, or we can choose the path of renewed

The question before us is simple: Which path will our generation choose?

In 1979, my mentor, Jack Kemp, captured the essence of why we must choose the path to prosperity:

“We can’t progress as a society by using government to diminish one
another. The only way we can all have more is by producing more, not by
bickering over how to share less. Economic growth must come first… for
when it does many social problems tend to take care of themselves, and
the problems that remain become manageable.”

You know, there’s a question I get a lot from people at town halls.
When you go around the country showing people a chart that shows that
our debt is on track to cripple our economy, people start to ask you
whether any plan, even a plan like the House-passed budget, can save America from a diminished future.

They say, Congressman Ryan, I know you have to sound optimistic in public. But in private, do you really think there’s anything we can do to save this country from fiscal ruin? Or should we just be bracing for the worst?

It’s a difficult question. It’s one that gives me pause. Frankly, it’s one that keeps me up at night.

But the honest answer is the one I’m about to give to you: Nobody
ever got rich betting against the United States of America, and I’m not
about to start.

Time and again, just when it looked like the era of American
exceptionalism was coming to a close… we got back up. We brushed
ourselves off. And we got back to work – rebuilding our country,
advancing our society, and moving the boundaries of opportunity ever

We can do it again. America was knocked down by a recession. We are
threatened by a rising tide of debt. But we are not knocked out. We are
America. And it is time to prove the doubters wrong once more – to show
them that this exceptional nation is once again up to the challenge. 

Thank you.


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Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:45 | 1280085 66Sexy
66Sexy's picture

you humans are as weak as you are ugly. we are coming for your ships, your planet, your people.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:47 | 1280092 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

How 1950's of you.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:34 | 1280303 CPL
CPL's picture


I for one welcome our draconian alien overlords, only caveate.  Don't fuck up like the previous bone heads, and make sure you use every piece of our filthy human corpses unless you opt to make us into house pets.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:51 | 1280107 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

Im not human, But i do like pancakes.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:12 | 1280218 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:35 | 1280317 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

No, Pancakes, and Waffles too

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:52 | 1280118 Chuck Norris
Chuck Norris's picture

I'm cool with that as long as you keep your tentacles off my silver.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:56 | 1280132 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Too little too late

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:10 | 1280207 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

luckely you don't eat brains, because if you landed in Texas first, you'de starve...


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 17:30 | 1280749 NoLongerABagHolder
NoLongerABagHolder's picture

Ryan is the most dangerous man in America.

He - like most here, do not understand the current monetary system we live in, thus mistaking the current system for the old gold standard. He and many of you would do yourself wonders by spending time learning about Modern Monetary Theory, and understand why the US is not like a household or state government.

Everything ZH rants about would be true if we still lived in the old gold standard way of life. This is not saying the current system is the right way, just saying the idea of a bond market collapse is absurd in the current system.

You do that, and you will finally have answers why the whole system didn't fall apart and the stock market end up at 500 like you all thought it would.

And you will udnerstand why Gold is not already at $5000 like you were sure it would be.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 18:01 | 1280851 MrPike
MrPike's picture

You can take "Modern Monetary Theory" and cram it up your ass. It should not be given sucha scientific sounding name.  Instead it should read "How to Central Plan," because that's all it is.  

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 19:06 | 1280984 NoLongerABagHolder
NoLongerABagHolder's picture

You show your idiocy in that you obviously don't get it either.....

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 06:15 | 1282244 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

I did not understand MMT, so looked it up on Wikipedia. It seems to be one of those things that just because it says "Modern" does not mean that it is actually modern or good for the economy. A similar example might be the Commodity Futures "Mondernization" Act of 2000 which made bucket shop bets, banned in the 1920s legal again... and so the whole derivaties Ponzi was created, allowing the unhedgable to be hedged on paper.

In its contemporary form, MMT states that there are four essential features to most fiat monetary systems in existence today:[7]

  • A floating exchange rate;
  • Fiat money is used as a means of exchange, and is not convertible into gold or any other commodity;
  • The government has the exclusive right to issue the particular fiat currency;
  • The government only accepts its own fiat currency for payment of taxes and any other liabilities owed to the government.

Although MMT is a monetary theory, theorists avoid the use of the imprecise term money, and prefer instead to use the term financial assets. This term is used to refer to any non-physical assets such as cash, bonds, bank deposits and stocks. Within this framework, MMT broadly describes the following areas of the economy:

  • Vertical transactions between the government sector and the non-government sector. This considers the effect of government spending and taxation, and concludes that government spending adds financial assets to an economy, whereas taxation removes it.[8]
  • Interaction between government and the private banking sector. This examines the mechanics of government spending, specifically, the effect that interest rate maintenance by the central bank has on the economy. It concludes that if a central bank wishes to maintain a target interest rate, it is always forced to intervene in the government bond market. Effectively, the central bank has no control over how much the government spends, and thus the government is not constrained in its spending desires.[9]
  • Horizontal transactions refers to transactions between private actors in an economy. This concludes that net financial assets cannot be created by private banks since loans always create deposits. However, the money supply can certainly be expanded via the issuance of private credit, and in this sense, MMT overlaps with monetary circuit theory. Both MMT and monetary circuit theory therefore reject the mainstream idea of the money multiplier.[1]
  • The external sector, which studies the effect that imports and exports within an open economy have on the economy of a fiat currency regime with a floating exchange rate. MMT uses horizontal theory to point out that a nation’s currency ultimately never leaves that nation; similarly, MMT then points out that foreign holdings of government debt do not affect government solvency. MMT also concludes that imports are a benefit and exports are a cost to a nations, but conversely accepts the possibility of negative currency shocks on an import-dependent nation.[7]
[edit] Criticism

Within the framework of Chartalism, some criticize the details of these assumptions. For example, Febrero[10] argues that modern money draws its value from its ability to cancel (private) bank debt, particularly as legal tender, rather than to pay government taxes.

In the couple of minutes that I have taken to think about this, there seem to be some inconsistencies:

a) the Fed is not the US government. It is a privately owned bank. And it taxes through manditory interest owed to it, just as the government taxes through multitudes other means... The banks tax and not necessarily in conjunction with the government.

b) the Fed put a lot more money into the economy than the US government did with TARP. It exchanged large amounts of financial assets (money) for small amounts of financial assets.

c) there is no accounting for the misallocation of resources. All money is treated as if it is the same thing whether it goes to build a bridge or bribe a Congressman. Yet, one has value in utility and the other not.

d) in MMT there does not appear to be any connection between value and money. Value is created through labor and money is created out of thin air.

e) exchange rates do not necessarily float. They may move, but they don't necessarily float as they would in a free market economy.

MMT has the smell of a rationalization "after the fact" and while in essence it may be true that this is the system that we live under, it seems to not judge the consequences of its existence.... such as the implied inflation of the money supply and ever declining purchasing power under a government and country that continually creates and spends money, but never produces anything... other than war. It works until the "take my money in exchange for your physical assets or I'll kick your ass" method of diplomacy no longer is effective.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 09:49 | 1282650 NoLongerABagHolder
NoLongerABagHolder's picture

This will help you get a bit better understanding.....

And more specifically this:

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 09:27 | 1282581 falak pema
falak pema's picture

That's what DSK was trying to explain to that girl Ophelia : MMS!

A private special lesson on MMS, what's known as a crammer course.

That dumb judge and the NYPD just don't get it!

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 19:33 | 1281052 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

I agree that Ryan is dangerous, because he appears, to the dim-witted, reasonable and responsible, willing to work within the existing system to reduce the inefficient misallocation of resources that our government money-printing machine produces.  He is the reformer, the practical man: a tweak here and a tweak there and everything should be fine.  The fact of the matter is that tweaking the broken machine of the American state is no fix.  Bold vision and decisive leadership is required, not the consensus-crafting and team-building that holds hostage American's limited imagination of what constitutes good leadership.

Perhaps it is you who do not understand modern monetary theory or the reality of money.  Fiat currency holds value only because people believe in the state.  State money-printing by banks or treasury, linked to debt or conjured from Treasury alchemy, leads to crony capitalism, fascism, and the misallocation of resources: all of which destroys faith in the state.

Just like they used to say in the Soviet Union, "We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us."  Have a look at the vast horde of Americans working in government agencies and crony capitalist industries.  Indeed they do pretend to work, but actually produce nothing of consequence.  That is your modern monetary theory in action.  Economics is much more than academic theories about money supply, velocity, statistics, and probability.  The purpose of an economic system is to distribute scarce resources in a just manner and allow for human ingenuity to improve the capacity of man.  Show me how your MMT does this.  In practice, it is a complete farce.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 19:46 | 1281079 NoLongerABagHolder
NoLongerABagHolder's picture

You say: "Fiat currency holds value only because people believe in the state."

This statement is foundationally incorrect, and part of the reason for the constant doom and gloom. Any currency from the state holds value because they have the laws and guns to put you in jail if you don't in fact pay them their taxes in the currency they tell you to pay it in. Which is why you will never be able to buy things en masse for gold. You will first have to convert that gold into whatever the currency the state tells you to pay taxes in, because the businesses you want to buy from have a tax liability in US Dollars, not gold. Therefore, they exchange labor and goods and services to get their hands on the state money to extinguish the tax liability and stay out of jail, and hopefully have some left over.

If the tax system breaks down (think Greece) then you have some problems.

ZH'ers miss this key point. They keep saying "quit ruining OUR money" It's not your money. It's the states money and you are being coerced into having to get your hands on some in order to stay out of jail. That is the true crime. Even though you think Gold is real money, it's not, because you still have to exchange it for the state issued currency in order to extinguish your IRS liabilities and stay out of jail.

MMT should be renamed Modern Monetary Reality. It isn't "theory", but aptly describes the system we are in..... and no - it is not Keynsianism and Paul Krugman does not in fact understand it either.

Take the time to get your head around it, and you will see with clarity why Japan, with 250% debt to GDP - still struggles with deflation, and why we will be heading down that long fight for years.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 21:31 | 1281418 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

" They keep saying "quit ruining OUR money" It's not your money. It's the states money and you are being coerced into having to get your hands on some in order to stay out of jail."

You are every bit missing the "point" as much as the ZH'ers you chide.  We understand this concept, and reject it.  You seem to be willing to polish statist knob, while the people you label as dense have already choked and are beginning to take back what is ours.  Will we be successful?  Quite likely not.  I hope you are comfortable in your pussy ass servitude.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 23:46 | 1281808 NoLongerABagHolder
NoLongerABagHolder's picture

Quit sniffing glue.....

You reject it?

Yet you still work for dollars and have them and buy and sell in them?

You haven't rejected anything. You have ideals but are too pussy to do anything about it.

I'll believe your bravado when you are sitting in prison because you won't transact business or pay taxes in US dollars, and are standing up for what you believe in.

You haven't rejected anything but reality at this point.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 12:18 | 1298220 toady
toady's picture

This is an interesting string of comments. Rejecting the dollar DOES create problems. What will happen when the world rejects the dollar? We will be glad we spent all that money on those aircraft carriers... Thats the extream edge of dollar rejection. On the level of this discussion, dollar rejection is difficult. As stated, citizens are forced to pay in dollars or face imprisonment, but most people (I hope!) are smart enough to get around the problem. I keep most of my assets in stores other than the dollar, and leave just enough in dollars to pay 'the Man' in his prefered currency.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 19:50 | 1281096 Dugald
Dugald's picture

 "Bold vision and decisive leadership is required"

You can't handle it!!!!!!!! Ergo, you are cactus fucktus 

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 22:07 | 1281568 RexZeedog
RexZeedog's picture

Modern monetary theory is based in large measure on fiscal stimulus programs which are justified via the false premise of a "multiplier effect".

Take a few minutes and read the 1st three articles on which show up in this google search:

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 23:48 | 1281816 NoLongerABagHolder
NoLongerABagHolder's picture

Wrong yet again. MMT has thouroughly shown time and again that the multiplier effect is a sham and it breaks down...... which is why QE is a non-event.

You need to keep reading so you understand what it is you are arguing against.....

and even better:

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:43 | 1280087 NotAllowed
NotAllowed's picture

all your bases are belng to us

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:46 | 1280090 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

The GP is just starting to learn about sound money and the need for it. The pols won't do squat until the public is screaming in pain for it.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:43 | 1280091 Clorox Cowboy
Clorox Cowboy's picture

Hmmm...the two-headed monster turns on the Fed?  Me likey :)

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:47 | 1280093 redpill
redpill's picture

OT: The Nipponese Black Swan Continues to Soar

Fukushima Disaster is a Complete Triple Meltdown in Reactors 1-3, Tepco Finally Admits

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:13 | 1280224 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Swans are beginning to Flock...

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:27 | 1280277 I Told YOU So
I Told YOU So's picture

X-rated swans? haha flock, not f*ck......sorry

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:30 | 1280290 The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

Good work RP....please keep it up! It's absolutly amazing to see the large-scale apathy over this unprecedented tragedy now playing itself out on a site like ZH.  I hope the fool who junked you has been buying and eating Cesium 137 California strawberries  "because he just can't believe the awesome price lately"!!!

T.E.I.N. everyone!

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 17:52 | 1280822 tsx500
tsx500's picture

wildly bullish

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 21:29 | 1281406 NIRee
NIRee's picture

Trifecta fubar?

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:44 | 1280096 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

"The Fed’s recent departures from rules-based monetary policy have increased economic uncertainty and endangered the central bank’s independence."

way too polite for chairsatan

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:48 | 1280097 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture


 In the coming years, our debt is projected to grow to more than three times the size of our entire economy.


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:54 | 1280129 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

the true deficit is $5.5 trillion if you add in fannie and freddie gse's and use gaap accounting. the numbers he cites are correct.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:06 | 1280191 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

By BS, I suspect you mean it will be much larger.........

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:14 | 1280228 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Not will be, it's ALREADY bigger than that. The true US debt is something like 100 trillion and the real US GDP is like 10-12 trillion...

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:41 | 1280327 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 18:33 | 1280722 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

I couldn't bear reading the whole thing.  

How many wars for the contractors who own him and bailouts for the banker-gangsters who own him does he project over this time?

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:48 | 1280099 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Cash will be king by the time this is all said and done.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:48 | 1280112 6 String
6 String's picture

Could be.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:53 | 1280123 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

your rational for that statement is?

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:56 | 1280138 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I've explained this ad nauseum so I'll just make this as quick and pithy as possible.

#1 The two sides won't agree

#2 Imagine all those pensioners who have been spending their retirement checks on gold/silver. Well, let's assume they get cut off from those checks, what do you think they are going to do? How about the clamoring for dollars by every single government agency? EVERYONE is going to want dollars.

That's as far as I'm willing to go right now, there's lot's of other stuff, I'm just tired of typing it over and over again.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:57 | 1280149 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Then cut and paste it.

Also, I lol that you think retirees on fixed incomes are buying any significant amount of gold or silver.  That is quite possibly the dumbest PM bear rational I've ever heard.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:08 | 1280184 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Like I said there is a lot to it, that is just one small facet.

Maybe I will do that. I'll just write one long post and save it to my desktop, so I can copy/paste it in the future. That's about the smartest thing I've ever heard come out of you tmosely. Good job, keep up the good work.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 16:53 | 1280615 The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

Great idea! I can't wait to junk to full unedited version of the twisted drool that that would comprise such an idiotic perspective.

T.E.I.N. everyone!

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 17:12 | 1280699 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I see. You're the type of person who can't hold a family together...if you have kids they probably despise and have no respect for you.

I can see why. If junking my comments helps your self-esteem then I feel happy I can assist in the rehabilitation of your emotionally torn up ego.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 19:11 | 1281004 The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

Once again you have proven your analytical skills to be adolescent at best. Your statements above are almost as far-off as your view on fiat.

I would advise those paying for your comments to put you administrative review.

T.E.I.N. everyone!

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 20:19 | 1281183 knowless
knowless's picture

i would like to know in detail why you think the dollar will live.

in a deflationary event people will hock whatever for whatever dollars there are, then once they get the dollars, people holding key assets will still seek profit after hocking what they had for the same minimal dollars to purchase scarcity, so no matter what, people who end up with necessities will demand more than people can accumulate.. a reciprocating cycle of people with no wealth playing into a system which takes profit.. why would people keep playing that game when they are starving?


i am a dishwasher, all be warned.


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:28 | 1280282 SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

"EVERYONE is going to want dollars"


Excluding any country exporting to the USA.

Your shelves will be EMPTY for EVERYONE.

The boomers dollar/cash training will work as well as their Viagra addiction. 

Making them stiff.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:51 | 1280128 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

I tend to agree.  And by cash, I mean peices of paper with dead presidents on them, not digital numbers in an account.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:18 | 1280248 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

metals have dead presidents too. But you can actually feel them when you drop them on your foot. The same cannot be said for Cash, Bonds, Stocks, Derivatives or other debt instruments

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:44 | 1280334 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Cash should not be lumped with "bonds, stocks, derivatives, other debt instruments".  Cash is directly spendable, whereas the others are not.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 04:00 | 1282194 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Stocks shouldn't necessarily be grouped with bonds, derivatives, and other debt instruments.  While, as a class of investment, they (specifically listed shares) are in aggregate subject to market flows, individually the represent an ownership stake in a specific underlying entity which has its own unique tangible asset backing and cash flow.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 13:17 | 1298291 toady
toady's picture

Stocks, bonds, are all paper. The value is belief in what they represent.

You have Microsoft stock, you beleive it is valuable because it sells products. If the competition has better products, marketing, prices, etc, your stock loses value.

Cash has value forced upon the world through the military strength.

If both of the systems above fail, tangible comodities are the fall back position

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 17:21 | 1280728 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

I agree.  Cash on hand has value.  'Cash' stored in something with a lock or a power switch is another story.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:58 | 1280155 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Agreed.   What form it takes is what is up for discussion

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:46 | 1280102 6 String
6 String's picture

The answer is simple. We have to make responsible choices today, so that our children don’t have to make painful choices tomorrow

This guy is the same dickhead political groupthink shit talk we've heard forever. Paul Ryan always uses the italized line I quoted here. This alone tells me he's a complete dipshit as well. Our children won't have to make painful choices tomorrow....they're going to just have to figure out a way to fucking survive these dipshit's choices.

Paul Ryan is the typcial hacker uses the debt as a stepping ladder.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:55 | 1280130 6 String
6 String's picture

Who is the coward who junked me without a rebuttal for attacking Paul Ryan the fucktard? Who? Let me hear your bullish argument for this clown so I can kick your ass.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:11 | 1280212 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

I didn't junk you, but your comments can be applied to almost any politician, and Ryan isn't as bad as most.   So, IMO, it comes across like you have an axe to grind.   The comment opens you up to being junked...

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:46 | 1280352 6 String
6 String's picture

I didn't junk you, but your comments can be applied to almost any politician, and Ryan isn't as bad as most.

I have no problem with being junked. I like it. It's exactly why PM's are getting nailed even though we have a technical breach on our Debt: because too many think that someone like Paul Ryan or some other flying Unicorn will make a difference.

When, in fact, Paul Ryan represents the establishment as it stands: corrupt, lopsided, seedy, and anything but American. For e.g., Ryan is big on the health care debate. But ask him a simple question:

Why isn't nutrional therapy legal in the United States?

That will end any and all arguments whether or not he stands for what America should be.


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 16:36 | 1280555 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Why isn't nutrional therapy legal in the United States?


You lost me.   Nutritional therapy is not banned in the US.  

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 17:19 | 1280716 6 String
6 String's picture

It is illegal for ANY DOCTOR in the United States to recommend nutrional therapy of ANY illness.

You see, it's a structural thing: it's called make money off the sheeple even if it destroys your health. There is no money, though, in a recommendation such as the following:

High Cholestrol = Garlic, No Meat or Dairy Products

You see, the entire medical industry is to make money predominantly to keep you sick and unhealthy. It's the American way.



Mon, 05/16/2011 - 17:26 | 1280734 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 18:12 | 1280872 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

It is illegal for ANY DOCTOR in the United States to recommend nutrional therapy of ANY illness.

It is not illegal for a doctor to recommend to a patient that they change their diet, excercise, etc.   Nutritional therapy gets a bad rap because it is either hailed as a cure for things like cancer (which, based on current science, nutrition cannot be used to CURE the cancer) or it is misused.   BTW, its not just the USA that imposes restriction, Europe, Australia and other countries also have regulations

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 18:42 | 1280935 6 String
6 String's picture

Nutrional therapy is illegal for a doctor in the U.S.  The facts don't change just because you change the wording. If one wanted to see a doctor for nutrional therapy it shoudl be legal, period. This is not allowed for some "greater good" theory as you suggest, trust me on this one.

Sure it isn't illegal for a doctor to tell you to eat better and exercise (they say it all the time) but it is illegal for them to tell you that instead of beta blockers you should use cayenne or instead of lipitor you should eat garlic and eliminate meat from your diet or if you need to regulate your heart you should use cayenne and etc. etc. These things have centuries of proven uses and cures yet it is illegal for a doctor to recommend it. The point is the same: why is that? Tell me? Why do less than 6% of all doctors have any nutrional training at all in all their years of education?




Mon, 05/16/2011 - 18:43 | 1280943 6 String
6 String's picture

P.S. Nutrional therapies have proven to cure millions of cases of cancer.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 19:03 | 1280985 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

Meanwhile, the pushers of legalized drugs to fight cancer are pure poison.  

These sick bastards not only make money POISONING people, but they've managed to make any treatment that doesn't involve said poisoning illegal!

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:55 | 1280131 flattrader
flattrader's picture

The fact that he left subsidies to oil companies untouched told me all I needed to know.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:11 | 1280196 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

No mention of the MIC either...

Captcha lol "four +54 equals ____"

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:17 | 1280229 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

I just wish these fuck heads would STFU. They argue back & forth like there is a fucking thing they can do , a billion here and there ain't going to do shit to stop this train wreck from happening. Are we not in default right now? Enough with the political bullshit..

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 17:28 | 1280747 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

In 'default' - f-a-k-e default - to bailed out, insolvent banker-gangsters.

Oh no.

In this long ambling screed, I'm shocked ... SHOCKED! that there's no mention of taxing derivatives.  

What a fucking tool.


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 18:30 | 1280917 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

I agree. I believe Tyler and ZH also support the Tobin Tax (Wallstreet Sales tax). It is absoluete essential, as Webster Tarpley puts it, 'make Wallstrett pay for the depression they created!'

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 02:37 | 1282148 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

That's cause its chump change in the 10s of billions.  Any cut in "subsidies" would just be passed onto consumers.  Major defense cuts need to be included though-but that would push up the unemployment rate since most of defense spending is personnel.  The key observation that Ryan made, that fee for service medical reimbursement is the reason costs are so high is quite trenchent.  The guy is bright.   

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:47 | 1280105 treemagnet
treemagnet's picture

Paul Ryan may be "best of breed" but that ain't saying much.  Spending is wrong, bad, and oh - you wanna spend it my district, well um, this is truly a step in the right direction for the you, me...the nation....the world....Greece too!

Yes, I'm doubtful.  Do I get junked for that?

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:01 | 1280168 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

He is the only congressman who is even remotely close to providing a realistic way out of this mess.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:07 | 1280180 treemagnet
treemagnet's picture

I agree - but he's a political animal nonetheless that must survive first, thrive second.  Its that survive part....for me, at least.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:09 | 1280203 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

Ron Paul is not realistic??? Paul Ryan is the same mother fucker that voted to extend the patriot act. He is a criminal, pure and simple. And an empty suit at that.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:23 | 1280255 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Ron Paul is a marginalized and ostricized non-player. He may be right about a lot of things but he can't do anything about it.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:26 | 1280288 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

When the slaves stop voting for the lesser evils, we will finally have a chance.  I believe our next 'george washington' will not come from the MSM or MSPolitics.  He will be one of us.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:31 | 1280294 I Told YOU So
I Told YOU So's picture


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:13 | 1280206 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:15 | 1280232 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Bullshit.  Ron Paul is the only active representative who has voted with the Constitution, consistently.  Paul Ryan will not go to a gold standard, nor will he reduce military spending substantially, nor has he protected our civil liberties by backing the so called 'patriot' act p.o.s.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:25 | 1280280 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

too little too late...don't believe this clown he is just playing the red card to make it sound like there is still hope to save this sinking ship.   News Flash: This ship is sinking and is beyond being saved!

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 17:31 | 1280760 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

Genocide is realistic, but demanding cash from parasitical, do-nothing, bailed-out banker-gangsters is fantastic and impossible.

So is ending any one of the 12 or 15 campaigns to massacre Black and Brown people globally.

What a delusional little place this can be.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:38 | 1280316 CPL
CPL's picture

What is the breed you are committed to producing is a Gothapotamus...



Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:48 | 1280109 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

When will those in government will finally realize you can't choke the goose and force it to lay another golden egg - the goose is almost dead and black swans swarm above.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:12 | 1280204 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

"you can't choke the goose and force it to lay another golden egg"

No, but you can choke the chicken and get a pearl necklace.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:33 | 1280311 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

And maybe that's All they'll get, right in the face I hope.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 16:22 | 1280497 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

I was reading this from my desk at work and almost chorkled out loud.  Unexpectedly funny, Colonel...

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:48 | 1280110 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

Yes, we cannot tax the high income 'earners' because they create jobs, ha ha ha.  If this were true, we should not tax the rich at all, only the poor.


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:04 | 1280182 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Worked well for pre-revolutionary France

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:25 | 1280266 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

Well, technically they do. Just not in this country.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:26 | 1280272 RichardP
RichardP's picture

When earnings before taxes gets spent on creating jobs, it becomes a business expense.  Business expense does not ever get taxed.  So the argument that there will be less jobs created if we tax the wealthy business owner is empty of any merit.  In fact, levying the tax may lead to more job creation - as the wealthy spend the money to create jobs in an effort to avoid the taxes.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:52 | 1280114 Ombibulous
Ombibulous's picture

Paul Ryan is a fraud and should not have an iota of credibility. He voted FOR the Medicare Drug Act and TARP.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:30 | 1280291 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

I second that Ombibulous!!!  Talk is cheap Mr. Ryan!!!!



Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:50 | 1280119 alexwest
alexwest's picture




Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:03 | 1280179 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

100 military bases/installations in Italy.........thats just me when they close them down and sell the golf courses.......meanwhile, gram is getting kicked out of the nursing home..........go figure...

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:14 | 1280227 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Keep in mind that list includes "bases/installations" such as ammo depots, and radar stations, which aren't exactly a huge drain on resources.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 16:17 | 1280460 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Close em down............the soviets wont be invading anytime soon....

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 16:22 | 1280496 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Just when you least expect them, BLAM, Bears carrying AK-74s.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 20:56 | 1281295 Devore
Devore's picture

Word count for war, military, defense = 0



Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:56 | 1280124 samsara
samsara's picture

Well, well,  well,   Sounds like SOMEBODY is reading Ron Paul articles for the last twenty years.

Isn't this basically what Ron Paul was saying 2008ish on the campaign trail?

First they fight you....

He knows what to say in front of the camera.   Feels the pulse of the country and spins it.

Like a congressional  Beck

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:46 | 1280354 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

He hasn't changed his tone in 25 years, asshole. Quit trolling around on Mitt Romney's dime.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 16:28 | 1280515 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Ron Paul isn't as politically polished as most other fish in the Congressional bowl, but he's the closest to understanding how this country *used* to operate, and how the Constitution was intended to be applied.

I'm not quite sure how the conservative/Republican primaries/candidates will shake out by mid-2012 before the general election, but Ron Paul has my attention for now.

And he has carried the same tone for many years, so whether you agree with him or not (or somewhere in between), he at least stands his ground.  That can't really be said for any of the other flip-flopping ponies on display.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:53 | 1280126 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

OMFG..."The Path to Prosperity"...Jesus Christ that's inspirational.  Why didn't someone think of that earlier?  That much better than "winning the future" or "1,000 points of light" or [insert cliche horseshit here].  This chap is a real go getter.

I must go play with my DSK chubby now.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:55 | 1280127 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Can we please stop talking about the U.S.A. It ain't worth saving. It's like a rotten from the inside piece of once fine polished oak wood.

Is there anyone, seriously, who wants for the U.S. to survive this self-inflicted 'financial turmoil'? We all want it to fail and implode like the cancer it is, so the rest of the world can have a chance of a decent future, right?

We are all on the same page with this thought, yes?

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:58 | 1280134 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

You're not enjoying your 50 square meter euro-shithole apartment, 60% payroll tax, $150 a pair levi's, rotten teeth, and asswipe psuedo-intellectual mock-turtle neck wearing cronies? 

Somebody call a whaaaa-bulance for this fuckwad.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:03 | 1280164 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

lol.  excellent boilermaker.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:04 | 1280170 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:15 | 1280219 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:26 | 1280269 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Don't forget forget $6.00/gallon gas and 25% VAT tax.

Can't have a socialist paradise without those. 

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 16:40 | 1280564 Mpizzie
Mpizzie's picture



Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:55 | 1280144 6 String
6 String's picture

I truly believe we are worth saving but the best way to do it at this point is to hope the FRN backed by nothing experiment fails. If it doesn't, it's not worth saving as it stands. Because if this curren regime keeps going somehow we will all be living under completely tyrannical despots. We all may get "ann franked" if this fucker doesn't go down.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:59 | 1280158 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

No doubt Mr. 6, but the euro-tards, the japs, the chinks, and everyone else is playing the same game and bullshit.  This idiot is just a Amerikkka hater and jealous as fuck.  Let him eat a bag of shit.  Truth be told, if Amerikkka goes down we'll come out much better and much faster than the rest of the world. 

I agree, crash it and start over.  This time, let the rest of the world go fuck off and take care of our own first and only.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:10 | 1280193 6 String
6 String's picture

Definately in stride, Boilermaker. The average American doesn't know it--yet--that when the trillions that went to save the banks finally and really come back to bite them in the ass that the FRN isn't worth saving.

Until then, it's status quo as usual (siver down 4+% today) while the Dow is almost green.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:09 | 1280195 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Yes, when it's gone, America and its citizens, like Boilermaker, will be sincerely missed... how will the rest of the world possibly survive without such fine examples of human beings.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:37 | 1280324 6 String
6 String's picture

I've enjoyed some of your posts over time but now that I realize you basically want ALL Americans dead you've lost virtually all credibility.


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:48 | 1280343 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Of course, not dead... just removed from the planet for the greater good, so the rest of the world can have a chance at a decent future. There's an american flag on the moon, right? Seems like a good option to me.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 16:46 | 1280601 Mpizzie
Mpizzie's picture

You forgot white people.

Got to add the white people.  

Because sub-saharan Africa is a paradise on earth.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 17:20 | 1280719 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

I dont understand, is it the Southern white farmer, the California avacado growers, the people who work at the headquarters of every significant world charity (all in the US), the doctors (who have had more advances than any other nation) the educators (the world comes to the US for higher education), exactly who is it you are so angry at?

Yes, the banker and politicians have fucked the US people, that just makes the US people the same as in every other nation, no bettter, no worse.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:14 | 1280216 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

American Exceptionalism, WORKED well. Not so much anymore. Now more of a myth.

High schoold students who can't read, nor do simple math, in school districts attempting to save money by going to a 4 day school week.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:30 | 1280299 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture


American Exceptionalism is about the country's founding principles -- not necessarily the people who inhabit it.  There has never been a country founded upon the principles and ideals of Liberty found in our Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc.    That we've managed to screw it all up is the tragedy


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 21:52 | 1281505 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:31 | 1280302 nufio
nufio's picture

i tend to agree. If you look at the current generation of americans the % of population thats not hypnotized by jersey shore is a minority. I think the generation was spoilt by too much wealth and credit and not having to work hard in their lives ever. Im guessing the same holds for most of europe as well.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:57 | 1280152 Holodomor2012
Holodomor2012's picture

Balkanization or bust, baby.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:18 | 1280236 monkeys.pick.bottoms
monkeys.pick.bottoms's picture

"Can we please stop talking about the U.S.A. It ain't worth saving. It's like a rotten from the inside piece of once fine polished oak wood."

I respectfully disagree. It's rotten on the outside, the oak wood is still fine. Ron Paul's revolution will restore the great country to the greatness it hasn't seen probably in a century. In fact saving the USA is indispensable if we want to save the world from the creeping socialism/fascism that calls itself capitalism. In 1911 how many people believed there would be a successful revolution in Russia that will affect the whole world? A hundred years later I'm telling you there will be a successful anti-socialist revolution that will save the whole world. So, the USA is worth saving as long as its ideals are held if only by a handful. Because of the inevitable rise of China we need America like never before,



Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:26 | 1280265 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

You are joking right? America is fascism No.1.

America was a good idea, but the citizens got fat, lazy and stupid... seriously George W. Bush managed to hood wink them for 9+ years.. that says it all.

The idea was good, but it was destroyed from the inside way too easily.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 16:02 | 1280414 monkeys.pick.bottoms
monkeys.pick.bottoms's picture

I am not joking. I've been studying your country for 10+ years fairly intensely. The tone of your posts and the picture next to them also prove my case. It is very difficult to zoom out but do! The main problem is not economical - it is philosophical and it will be solved. I am not asking for more faith but for more reason. There are enough deep-pocket idealists that have not given up on their country, you'll see. George H. Bush lost with much bigger support. Once Mr. Paul becomes president he will dismantle FDR's and Wilson's heritage, it's not like he will want to run for re-election... It will be the Second American Revolution. I don't know how Ayn Rand nailed it but she sure did. One of the differences is that in our world it is silver. I just got a few ounces from my dealer. Beautiful coins.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:33 | 1280307 I Told YOU So
I Told YOU So's picture

sarc/. right......RIGHT

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:20 | 1280245 Truthiness
Truthiness's picture

No. It's completely worth saving. Despite all the blood-sucking banskter parasites and people like Snooki, there are plenty of decent, hard-working people who want to enjoy this beautiful country and its ideals. Yes, things are rotten, but they are worth saving. 

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:37 | 1280312 nufio
nufio's picture

most of the "saving" need to be done at a societial and familial level. everyone just wants to blame the politician and be done with it. parents should stop paying for their kids to study liberal arts in college and make them earn a living picking fruit or vegetables for a year or two so the younger generation gets a sense of value of money.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 16:45 | 1280585 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

An entire thread could be spawned from that suggestion alone.  I concur...too many people are too spoiled and looking for handouts.  I worked hard to raise my adult children to respect the hard work of others, and to display an honest ethic.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 16:39 | 1280558 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture


Geez, I was all prepared to write a long reply, but it's apparent that you're only happy when you have something to gripe about, and therefore incorrigible.

The banksters, men in black, Fedsters, whatever are causing a big problem for everybody.  No argument there.  But another problem springing up is the appearance of people who do nothing to bend the momentum toward fixing the problem (in any small way they can), and instead bitch and moan and complain because it gives them a twisted purpose in life.  Just like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton.

Stay around if you want, MonkeyBoy, but you're just becoming background noise.  Nobody respects someone who whines like a teenager and does nothing to offer any solutions.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:57 | 1280139 bobola
bobola's picture

Jack Kemp; "The only way we can all have more is by producing more."

Do we need more stuff..  More debt..?? 

More is better..??

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:58 | 1280140 chistletoe
chistletoe's picture

He sounds a bit like the Mayor of Rome,

trying to rally the old men and children to fight the Vandals as they breach the Aurelian Walls....


good luck with that ....

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:01 | 1280142 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

[Pottstown, Pa.]
October 30, 1930

[President Herbert Hoover
The White House
Washington, B.C.]

Dear Sir:
I am persuaded to write you, concerning aid to unemployment. I hope this
movement will be speeded up so people in Pottstown will feel and know the
results before cold weather comes upon us, the struggling starving working
class undernourished men, women and children. It really is alarming that
this so called prosperous nation that we must suffer on act of a few men
seeking power and rule and have laws pass to suit themselves. . . . I am
one of the men out of work but the rich dont care so long as they have full
and plenty. . . .

I hope relief will be coming soon and some action not just paper talk. Oh
the people have been so much belied that you cannot believe anything only
what you can see. I hope that Wall St will never have the power again to
cause such a panic upon the people money tied up hoarded up Is a crime. I
hope the guilty gang will be punished before they die. I say this whole panic
was brought on by dishonest group which I hope will be punished. . . .


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:16 | 1280225 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

Pottstown PA still full of lazy bums 81 years on.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:23 | 1280268 Dan The Man
Dan The Man's picture

gov't checks and dope...yeehaw!

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:05 | 1280172 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

one step forward, lets not get too excited one way or the other. (he's a Ron Paulite to he's a jerk lying ..fascist)..for a Pol he is taking positions  most of us Here on ZH agree with, I do not think much more can be said.

words help but actions are real.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:06 | 1280189 honestann
honestann's picture

On what basis do you consider RonPaul a fascist?

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:08 | 1280186 astartes09
astartes09's picture

His budget plan is a flop so he changes the subject.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:13 | 1280198 Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

Paul Ryan sprains neck while throwing head fake.  The fake - health care costs.  He's the conduit for more corporate subsidies and wealth transfer to the elite.  He's a total fucking loser.

Recipe for success:

  1. Eliminate all corporate subsidies immediately.
  2. Restore Glass-Steagle.
  3. Raise taxes and tax the robber barons proportionately.
  4. Give free-trade the finger - make American-made compete fairly with foreign-made.
  5. Stop foreign aid.
  6. Recall our troops from war zones.
  7. Close most, if not all, foreign military bases.
  8. Make dollar debasement a capital crime.
  9. Jail Jeethner, Summers, Dimon, Blankfein, Paulson, etc.
  10. Install Tyler Durden as head of the CIA.
Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:13 | 1280211 john39
john39's picture

no mention of ending money pit evil wars, closing 700+ military bases around the world, stopping wasteful military spending, all to further the banker power cult's agenda...   nope, now its all about austerity, and the FED will play the role of scapegoat now that the damage is done.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:11 | 1280213 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

"He voted FOR the Medicare Drug Act and TARP."

If that's true, then he's just another Keynsian hypocrite saying he/they can GROW the government slower and kick the can farther than the other tards can. It's the spending stoopids!

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:12 | 1280221 WTFIGO
WTFIGO's picture

BULL F&*CKING SHIT!  Wars that go on forever and are prosecuted with dollars borrowed from China, Japan and Arabia?  Don't have to stop them and sure as hell don't tax the people their being fought for.  Weapons systems that have no enemies and will never be used.  Don't have to cancel them, after all corporate socialism is good socialism not the bad socialism of social welfare.  Hundreds of foreign military bases that piss off the locals and piss our dollars away in foreign countries, can't close them.  Billions of dollars of foreign aid for a country with that provides universal health care for its citizens and has a stronger economy than ours.  Can't cut them off because they would be overrun by stone throwing terrorists in a week.  Continue to cut taxes for corporations and the wealthy because three decades of trickle down economics has proven how well that creates jobs.  Hint:  GE made a huge profit last year and paid no corporate taxes, in fact got a tax credit, yet laid off thousands of workers in the U.S.  Only by decimating Medicare can the U.S. be saved. ROFL. 

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:37 | 1280313 I Told YOU So
I Told YOU So's picture


Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:15 | 1280222 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

must have quite a few leftists / elites / democrats / fill in the blank on board at zh given the poor rating of the article. either that or zh has quite a few folks on benefits who want them to continue to roll their way. i gave it a five star. found nothing to disagree with.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:33 | 1280298 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

duh, you must be new - articles like this bring them scurrying out from under their rocks!!

But, there was a whole 30-40 people protesting today out in from of the Palmer House in downtown Chicago, so there you big meanie Paul Ryan!

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:52 | 1280377 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

yea, i'm new. just hopped off my pumpkin truck to give zh a whirl.

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