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Pentagon Papers Whistleblowers and Congressman Call for a New 9/11 Investigation
The two main players in releasing the Pentagon Papers were Daniel Ellsberg and United States Senator Mike Gravel.
Senator Gravel is the person who read the Pentagon Papers into the Congressional Record. This act made the papers public record, so that they could not be censored by the government. He was the only member of Congress courageous enough to do so.
Both Ellsberg and Gravel - like many other high-level former officials in the government and intelligence services (including many well-known whistleblowers) - support a new 9/11 investigation. Ellsberg says that the case of a certain 9/11 whistleblower is "far more explosive than the Pentagon Papers". (Here's some of what that whistleblower says.) He also said that the government is ordering the media to cover up her allegations about 9/11.
And he said that some of the claims concerning government involvement in 9/11 are credible, that "very serious questions have been raised about what they [U.S. government officials] knew beforehand and how much involvement there might have been", that engineering 9/11 would not be humanly or psychologically beyond the scope of those in office, and that there's enough evidence to justify a new, "hard-hitting" investigation into 9/11 with subpoenas and testimony taken under oath (see this and this).
Gravel is now backing a California ballot initiative for a new 9/11 investigation. The text of the initiative is below.
The initiative would actually help support the 9/11 Commission and fulfill the desire of the 9/11 Commissioners. Specifically, the Commission was severely underfunded:
- The government spent $175 million investigating the Challenger space shuttle disaster.
- It spent $152 million on the the Columbia disaster investigation.
- It spent $30 million investigating the Monica Lewinsky scandal.
- But the government only authorized $15 million for the 9/11 Commission.
Moreover, many 9/11 Commissioners said they never completed the investigation:
- 9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton himself says "I don't believe for a minute we got everything right", that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue.
- Similarly, 9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said "There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn't have access . . . ." . He also says that he had long feared that the investigation depended too heavily on the accounts of Al Qaeda detainees who were physically coerced into talking, and that it might take "a permanent 9/11 commission" to end the remaining mysteries of September 11.
- And 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America."
The initiative would allow deeper questions to be asked about 9/11, allow the 9/11 debate to continue, investigate the remaining mysteries of 9/11, and help to get to the full story, as the 9/11 Commissioners themselves want. (The Commissioners haven't yet read the initiative).
The initiative is unusual because it would allow other state governments, and even local governments, within California or any other state, two different options to officially express support for the new commission’s investigation pursuant to the initiative’s terms. Under the first option, a state or local government could enter a joint powers agreement with the commission to join the investigation and to share resources with the commission. Under the second option, a state or local government could endorse the efforts of the commission, at no cost to the state or local government, merely by the governing body of that state or local government passing an official resolution expressly supporting the commission’s investigation.
The initiative is also unusual because it goes the extra mile to ensure that the investigation will not be compromised by political considerations like the 9/11 Commission and the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission were. Specifically, it amends the state constitution to name Senator Gravel as the initial director and ensures that commissioners are appointed on the basis of their qualifications, and not political considerations. The initiative would name former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney as the initial director if Gravel is unable to serve in that capacity.
This sounds very odd at first, but a lawyer formerly with California's Office of Legislative Counsel - who drafted the initiative on behalf of Senator Gravel - states that these provisions are legally sound, and that an initiative that amends the state constitution in this manner would require 807,615 signatures to be placed on the ballot, rather than 504,760 signatures (the amount normally required to put a statutory initiative on the ballot). He states that California’s Office of Legislative Counsel vetted the entire initiative and did not find its amendments to the state constitution legally problematic.
In other words, the constitutional amendment would not be as big a deal as it initially seems, as at the end of the day, it would only mean getting an additional three hundred thousand signatures in a state of 40 million.
Former U.S. Congressman Dan Hamburg from California - legendary for his role in helping to preserve the Headwaters Forest - supports the initiative. Hamburg is in a unique position to support the initiative, as he is now serving as a county supervisor for Mendocino County. With his unique background in the U.S. Congress and local government, Hamburg supports the fact that the initiative allows governments at the local and state level to support a full and complete investigation.
Lawyers for 9/11 Truth also supports the initiative in principle. That organization includes such well-known legal scholars as:
- Ferdinando Imposimato, Honorary President of the Supreme Court of Italy. Former Senior Investigative Judge, Italy. Presided over numerous terrorism-related cases
- Burns H. Weston, Distinguished Professor of Law Emeritus and Founding Director and Senior Scholar, Center for Human Rights, The University of Iowa, Honorary Editor, Board of Editors, American Journal of International Law
- Andreas Von Bülow, former Assistant German Defense Minister (the number two German defense position), former Minister of Research and Technology, and a former member of the German Parliament
- Constance Fogal, former leader, Canadian Action Party
- J. Michael Springmann, former diplomat in the State Department's Foreign Service, with postings to Germany, India, Saudi Arabia, and the Bureau of Intelligence and Research in Washington, D.C. He was the head of the U.S. consular official in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, and is the published author of several articles on national security themes
Here is the draft initiative, with commentary:
(The following is the text of the California Initiative measure creating a new 9/11 investigative commission to be submitted directly to the voters at the general election in November 2012, with comments within ( ) for clarity. By law the title and summary of an initiative are required to be written by the Attorney General of California after the initiative is officially filed with the state government.)
(A suggested title)
The 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission Act
(A suggested summary)
This measure would establish within state government the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission in order to conduct a citizen-based, comprehensive, and truly independent investigation into events relating to the attacks of September 11, 2001. The measure would:
(1) Grant the commission all investigatory powers of the state, including the power of subpoena;
(2) Authorize the commission to enter into a joint powers agreement with any public entity within the United States and to exercise any investigatory power of any of the contracting powers in conducting the investigation;
(3) Amend the California Constitution to appoint former United States Senator Mike Gravel as the initial Director of the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission, and in his absence Representative Cynthia McKinney, to ensure the political independence of the commission from government interference through the appointment process, and to provide the commission credibility with respect to the transparency of its operations;
(4) Appropriate an amount equal to $0.50 per resident of the state from the General Fund to the director to conduct and administrate the investigation;
(5) Specify conditions governing its future amendment; and
(6) Provide that if a provision of the measure is held invalid, that provision’s invalidity will not render the remainder of the measure invalid.
(The Preamble)
TO THE HONORABLE SECRETARY OF STATE OF CALIFORNIA
We, the undersigned, registered, qualified voters of California, residents of ____ County (or City and County), hereby propose amendments to the Constitution of California and the Code, and petition the Secretary of State to submit the same to the voters of California for their adoption or rejection at the next succeeding general election or at any special statewide election held prior to that general election or otherwise provided by law. (The “official summary date,” the date that the Attorney General sends the title and summary for the initiative measure to the proponent, is also the date that the Secretary of State will use to determine the calendar deadlines applicable to the measure. All requisite signatures must be received within 150 days of the official summary date. The requisite number of signatures and other qualifications for placement on the November 2, 2012 Presidential General Election ballot must be met at least 131 days before that election—May 24, 2012.) The proposed constitutional amendments read as follows:
SECTION 1. This act shall be known and may be cited as the 9/11 Citizens
Investigation Commission Act.
(A declaration of facts that warrant the enactment of the initiative by the voters.)
SECTION 2. The people of the State of California find and declare all of the
following:
(a) The events of September 11, 2001, have had a profound effect on the economic, social, and cultural well-being of Californians, and of all citizens of the United States.
(1) In the wake of that tragic day, the United States entered into the War on Terror, the War in Afghanistan, and the Iraq War. Vast amounts of the blood and treasure of the American people have been spent fighting these ongoing wars. Over 5,800 American military personnel have lost their lives in the War on Terror, and over 40,000 have been wounded. In addition, innumerable innocent civilians have also lost their lives in the War on Terror. According to a September 2, 2010, report by the federal Congressional Research Service, the cumulative total for funds appropriated in the War on Terror was $1,121,000,000,000.
(2) Since September 11, 2001, the civil liberties of Californians and other Americans have been drastically curtailed, and fundamental rights guaranteed by the United States Bill of Rights have been under attack. Government actions under the USA PATRIOT Act (Public Law 107-56), enacted on October 26, 2001, have trampled civil liberties and fundamental rights by, among other things, purportedly authorizing increased espionage against innocent United States citizens, and the indefinite detention of certain prisoners without charge.
(3) Since September 11, 2001, the federal government has decimated essential liberties of its citizens in the name of temporary safety, and this way of thinking has reached an absurd extent, in that suspicionless, systematic assault on its citizens has become a policy of the federal government. In November 2010, the Transportation Security Administration, an agency of the United States Department of Homeland Security, began implementing additional screening procedures for air travelers, including the use of invasive back-scatter X-ray scans that display nude images of the person scanned, and extensive patdowns that include the touching of the chest, genitals, and buttocks of the person inspected.
(b) Beyond these profound effects on the well-being of Californians and all United States citizens, there are other wide-ranging and substantial considerations that support the need for further investigation into the events of September 11, 2001:
(1) A false flag operation is one designed to deceive so that the operation appears as though it was carried out by another entity, rather than the actual operator, in order to foster a clandestine political effect. The history of the United States is littered with instances of the alleged use of false flag operations, especially as pretext for war or to forward a pro-war agenda. These instances include, among others, the invasion of Mexico in 1846, the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine on February 18, 1898, the sinking of the RMS Lusitania on May 7, 1915, the second Gulf of Tonkin incident claimed to have occurred on August 4, 1964, and the purported existence of weapons of mass destruction as the rationale for the invasion of Iraq in March of 2003.
(2) World Trade Center Building 7, a 47-story skyscraper that was part of the World Trade Center complex, collapsed at 5:20 p.m. on September 11, 2001, and proffered explanations for the building’s failure have been widely disputed. To date, over 1,400 architectural and engineering professionals, and over 10,000 other individuals, have signed a petition, addressed to Members of the House of Representatives and the Senate of the United States of America, demanding “a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 – specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.”
(3) In the aftermath of September 11, 2001, the federal government established the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, also known as the 9/11 Commission, to prepare a full and complete account of, and to report on the circumstances surrounding, the attacks. However, the 9/11 Commission has been widely criticized for lacking sufficient political independence or legal authority to discharge its duties. In their book, which was co-written after the conclusion of the commission’s work, “Without Precedent: The Inside Story of the 9/11 Commission,” the commission’s Chairman, Republican Thomas H. Kean, and its Vice Chairman, Democrat Lee H. Hamilton, asserted their belief that the commission had been designed to fail. The collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 was not addressed in the 9/11 Commission’s final report.
(c) The State of California is an appropriate government entity to initiate, and to provide the legal basis for, a citizens’ investigation into the events of September 11, 2001. Californians were among those who died in the attacks of that infamous day, and many more Californians have subsequently died fighting in the War on Terror, the War in Afghanistan, and the Iraq War. Furthermore, alleged terrorist conspirators trained in California to carry out the events of September 11, 2001. Historically, California has been an economic and political leader among the states, and events relating to September 11, 2001, have drastically affected the economics and politics of both California and the country at large. For all these reasons, the initiation of a citizens’ investigation into the events of September 11, 2001, is an urgent matter of statewide concern.
(d) In order to ensure the political independence of the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission from government interference through the appointment process, and to provide the commission credibility with respect to the transparency of its operations, former United States Senator Mike Gravel shall serve as the initial director of the commission and, if Senator Gravel is unable to serve as the initial director, former Member of the United States House of Representatives Cynthia McKinney shall serve in that capacity.
(e)We, the people of the State of California, in solidarity with all citizens of the United States, direct the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission, a new investigatory commission created by this act, to conduct a citizen-based, comprehensive, and truly independent investigation into events relating to the attacks of September 11, 2001.
(This section is the amendment to the Constitution.)
SECTION 3. Section 12 of Article II of the California Constitution is amended to
read:
(a) No amendment to the Constitution, and no statute proposed to the electors by the Legislature or by initiative, that names any individual to hold any office, or names or identifies any private corporation to perform any function or to have any power or duty, may be submitted to the electors or have any effect.
(The underlined text is the addition of new text to the Constitution.)
(b) The prohibition set forth in subdivision (a) of this section shall not apply to the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission established pursuant to Chapter 9.6 (commencing with Section 8775) of Division 1 of Title 2 of the Government Code, in order to ensure the commission’s independence and to prevent federal or state government interference in its investigation or proceedings to the maximum extent allowed under the Constitution of the United States and this Constitution.
SECTION 4. Section 1 of Article VII of the California Constitution is amended to read:
(a) The civil service includes every officer and employee of the State except as otherwise provided in this Constitution.
(b) In the civil service permanent appointment and promotion shall be made under a general system based on merit ascertained by competitive examination.
(c) This section shall not apply to an officer or employee of the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission.
(The text below: Sections 5 to 8 comprise the new law added to the code by the initiative.)
SECTION 5. Section 6537 is added to the Government Code, to read:
6537. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, consistent with the United States Constitution, the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission, established pursuant to Section 8775, may enter into a joint powers agreement with any public entity within the United States, including, but not limited to, another state, a United States territory, a local government within this state, another state, or a United States territory, or an agency of the federal government, and the commission may exercise any investigatory power of any of the contracting powers to carry out the requirements of Chapter 9.6 (commencing with Section 8775) of Division 1 of Title 2.
SECTION 6. Chapter 9.6 (commencing with Section 8775) is added to Division 1
of Title 2 of the Government Code, to read:
Chapter 9.6. 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission
SECTION 8775.
The 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission is hereby created in state government as an independent commission for the purpose of investigating events relating to September 11, 2001. It is the intent of the residents of the State that the commission not be subject to state executive or legislative branch control, and that the state not interfere with the investigation or proceedings of the commission. The federal government is likewise requested to not interfere with commission activities.
SECTION 8776.
(a) The commission shall impartially and objectively investigate the
events of, leading up to, and in the aftermath of September 11, 2001, as those events relate to the economic, social, and cultural well-being of the residents of California, those under the jurisdiction of a public entity that enters into the joint powers agreement authorized by Section 6537, or those under the jurisdiction of a public entity that endorses the investigation and proceedings of the commission pursuant to Section 8782.
(1) The investigation shall include, but not be limited to, the destruction of the World Trade Center in New York City, the attack on the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, the crash of Flight 93 at Shanksville, Pennsylvania, the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and the Global War on Terror.
(2) The investigation shall consider the content and findings of previous
investigations into the events of, leading up to, or the aftermath of September 11, 2001, including, but not limited to, any work product of the federal 9/11 Commission or the “Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities before and after the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001” conducted by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
(3) The investigation shall consider perceived shortcomings or weaknesses in the report created by the federal 9/11 Commission, including, but not limited to, any scientific weaknesses or shortcomings.
(4) The investigation shall conclude within five years of the operative date of the act that added this chapter.
(b) Upon the conclusion of its investigation, the commission shall produce a report for issuance to the Governor, the members of the Senate Committee on Rules, the Speaker of the Assembly, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, and to each public entity that enters into the joint powers agreement authorized by Section 6537 or endorses the investigation and proceedings of the commission pursuant to Section 8782. The report shall identify all of the following:
(1) Any indication of criminal activity warranting prosecution. If the criminal activity identified may constitute a war crime or a crime against humanity, the commission shall report that criminal activity and its apparent perpetrators, as identified in the report to the International Criminal Court.
(2) Any individual or corporation that profited unduly from the events investigated by the commission.
(3) Any other relevant malfeasance, and the apparent perpetrators, if any, of that malfeasance.
SECTION 8777.
(a) In conducting its investigation, the commission shall have, and may exercise, all investigatory powers of the state, including, but not limited to, the power of subpoena. In addition, the commission may exercise any investigatory power that is lawfully granted to it pursuant to a joint powers agreement authorized by Section 6537, or is lawfully granted to it by a public entity that endorses the investigation and proceedings of the commission pursuant to Section 8782.
(b) The scope of the commission’s investigatory powers shall be interpreted broadly.
(c) Section 8101 shall not apply to any compact or agreement entered into by the commission.
SECTION 8778.
(a) The commission shall be led by the Director of the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission, who shall serve as the commission’s chief executive officer and be responsible for administrating the investigation and proceedings of the commission. Due to his unique credibility on issues of government transparency, former United States Senator Mike Gravel shall serve as the initial director of the commission. If Senator Gravel is unable to serve as the initial director, because of her unique credibility on issues of government transparency former Member of the United States House of Representatives Cynthia McKinney shall serve in that capacity. If the initial director or a subsequent director is removed from the commission pursuant to paragraph (4) of subdivision (a) of Section 8780, the commission shall elect a new director as provided in that paragraph.
(b) The director shall serve as chairperson of the commission and govern the public proceedings of the commission.
(c) As the chief executive officer of the commission, the director shall have plenary power over, and be solely accountable for, the fiscal operations of the commission. The director shall allocate the commission’s funding to discharge its objectives in the most efficient and effective manner possible.
SECTION 8779.
(a) The director may employ staff as the director determines necessary to discharge the duties of the commission.
(b) (1) Subject to the advice and consent of the commission, the director shall appoint a Special Investigator who shall be responsible for conducting the investigation and compiling the report. The Special Investigator shall report directly to the director, and shall follow up on the directives of, and report his or her findings to, the commission.
(2) The Special Investigator shall serve at the pleasure of the commission. The commission may remove the Special Investigator if a majority of the commission votes in favor of removal. If the commission removes the Special Investigator, the director shall appoint a replacement in the manner specified in paragraph (1).
(3) All other staff of the commission shall be at-will employees, and shall serve at the pleasure of the director.
(c) An employee of the commission shall be compensated for his or her employment, if at all, in a manner consistent with the compensation practices of the state with respect to the employees of state advisory bodies.
(d) Each employee of the commission shall execute the following oath or
affirmation of office as a condition of his or her service: “I, (name), hereby swear or affirm that I will, to the best of my ability, defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of the State of California, and the principle of truth in governance in investigating the events of, leading up to, and in the aftermath of September 11, 2001.”
SECTION 8780.
(a) The commission shall be made up of at least 15 members, including the director, who shall serve as chairperson of the commission. The director shall determine the number of members of the commission, subject to the condition that the total membership of the commission shall equal an odd number.
(b) (1) Members shall be persons having specific expertise or experience that will aid or assist in the efforts of the commission. To the maximum extent feasible, the members of the commission shall not be public officials.
(2) The director shall appoint members, from among candidates nominated by a resident of this state, or a resident of a public entity that enters into the joint powers agreement authorized by Section 6537 or endorses the investigation and proceedings of the commission pursuant to Section 8780.
(3) Members of the commission shall serve for as long as necessary to complete the investigation, but for no longer than five years from the operative date of the act that added this chapter.
(4) (A) Any member of the commission, including the director, may be removed by a two-thirds vote of the commission, and a replacement member shall be appointed pursuant to this subdivision.
(B) If the commission votes to remove the director from the commission, it shall elect a member of the commission to subsequently serve as the director, and a replacement member shall be appointed pursuant to this subdivision.
SECTION 8781.
(a) (1) A sum equal to the amount of 50 cents ($0.50) per resident of the state is hereby transferred from the General Fund to the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Fund, which is hereby created in the State Treasury, and is continuously appropriated to the director to be expended in accordance with this chapter. For purposes of this subdivision, the population of the state shall be determined in accordance with the 2010 United States Census.
(2) Moneys in the fund shall be expended solely for the purposes of the commission.
(b) (1) Any public entity that enters into the joint powers agreement authorized by Section 6537 shall contribute to funding the operations of the commission as specified, if at all, in the joint powers agreement.
(2) No contribution to the funding of the operations of the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission shall be required of a public entity that endorses the investigation and proceedings of the commission pursuant to Section 8782.
(c) The commission may accept donations to fund its operations from any public
or private entity, in accordance with existing law. Any donation for the operations of the commission shall be deposited in the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Fund and shall be expended only in accordance with this chapter.
SECTION 8782.
Consistent with the United States Constitution, a public entity within the United States, including, but not limited to, another state, a United States territory, or a local government within this state, another state, or a United States territory, may, as an alternative to entering into a joint powers agreement pursuant to Section 6537, endorse the investigation and proceedings of the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission by passing a resolution endorsing the efforts of the commission. Endorsement by a public agency in this manner shall authorize the commission, in its investigation, to take into account effects of the events of, leading up to, and in the aftermath of September 11, 2001, as they relate to the economic, social, and cultural well-being of the residents under the jurisdiction of the endorsing public entity.
SECTION 8783.
(a) The commission shall be subject to the Bagley-Keene Open Meeting Act (Article 9 (commencing with Section 11120) of Chapter 1 of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2) and the California Public Records Act (Chapter 3.5 (commencing with Section 6250) of Division 7 of Title 1). In order to avoid a conflict of laws, if the commission enters into an agreement with an entity in another state, the commission shall be subject to only the public records and public meeting laws of this state. In accordance with Section 3 of Article I of the California Constitution, the commission shall accommodate a reasonable disclosure request that is beyond the requirements of those laws, unless the commission provides a reasonable explanation for the denial of the particular disclosure request.
(b) As a first priority after its organization, the commission shall establish an Internet Web site. The commission shall regularly update its Internet Web site in order to promptly provide access to the public information required to be disclosed pursuant to subdivision (a), and to ensure that the information on the Internet Web site is as up to date as possible.
SECTION 8784.
In order to ensure conformity and clarity, all members and staff of the commission shall be subject to the conflict-of-interest laws of this state.
SECTION 7.
Consistent with subdivision (c) of Section 10 of Article II of the California Constitution, Sections 5 and 6 of this act may be amended only by a subsequent measure submitted to a vote of the people at a statewide election, or by a statute approved by two-thirds of the membership of each house of the Legislature and signed by the Governor that furthers the purposes of the act.
SECTION 8.
If any provision of this act, or any part thereof, is for any reason held to be invalid or unconstitutional, the remaining provisions shall not be affected, but shall remain in full force and effect, and to this end the provisions of this act are severable.
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For more information, contact the proponents of the initiative at CA911initiative@gmail.com.
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And so what does a responsible and ethical person do when they find out that the entire leadership structure of their government (and other power structures) is a conspiratorial fraud, corrupt, evil and most likely completely beyond redemption?
The bad people depend on the good people to do nothing.
Good for Gravel for continuing to push for this (partly by working thru the system to add "credibility" to the cause).
Now, some extra points that the author didn't mention:
How come many in the progressive media won't touch 9/11? Because they don't want to be labeled as "another 9/11 nutter", that's why. Ambushing Amy Goodman, the late and great George Carlin or others might get you a high You Tube view rate. Did it do anything else? No. Goodman, Laura Flanders and all the other big progressive names are running businesses. Most of these people have their own production companies (usually an LLC). They're fighting to compete not only with each other but also with the MSM. Therefore, they don't want that hassle.
Why aren't many "9/11 experts" getting anywhere with a new investigation? Part of it is money and egos. In every tragedy like this, there's always a "conspiracy" element. What are these people doing? Working together to achieve a new investigation? No. Most of the time they're too busy pushing books, DVD's or cutting each other down. After 5 minutes that's gets really old.
Now, maybe the most important point of all. How come there's no new investigation? Because most people are terrified to face their worst nightmare. (Fight the urge to do the Nicholsen "you can't handle the truth" impression, ok?).
Imagine if there's finally proof that yes it was an inside job. In 2011 America with all the crap that's happening, would anybody do anything about it? Would the Democrats (from Obama on down) do anything about it? No, they wouldn't. Why would they? They've done nothing about investigating and prosecuting war criminals for torture. They've done nothing about bankers who committed global fraud. What's the reasoning? We just need to put it all behind us and move on to a more positive future, etc. Translation: nobody gives a s**t about this and nobody will ever do anything about it. So just shut up already.
Nothing personal against Gravel or anyone who lost someone in 9/11. But unless there's a sustained and united effort to get a new investigation no matter what, it's not going to happen. Look at what the corporate MSM did to Gravel in the last election. Where do you see him (other than Press TV or in his own You Tube clips)? Nowhere.
To make this happen, you have to have a "name" out front to lead it. If not Gravel, who else will do it? Your favorite progressive talk show host? Not a chance.
In this global depression, there's only a limited amount of progressive funding. Have you tried going door to door or calling people to get donations for your progressive cause lately? Imagine the worst sales commission job possible. That's how cutthroat it is.
Now, in this evnviroment, how will you make this work?
Whoever junked you ought to get his weanie slapped. Excellent points all. The rationale for an investigation of this type is well summed up in your comments.
Jesse Ventura already exposed the 9/11 scam, and no one cares anymore.
What good does another cover-up investigation do?
Let the people rest in peace I say.
Nothing is going to be done, even when they proved beyond any doubt our government attacked our own people to start an economy boosting war.
I really DO wish it was that simple. I really do. But it's not the RIGHT thing to do. No, the right thing to do is to acknowledge that they are going to use 9/11 AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.
For TSA and HOMELAND SECURITY, and NORTHCOM, and AFRICOM, and face scanners and FUSION centers, AND on and on and on and on!!!.
I hear 9/11 used as justification for everything going on today......... that in and of ITSELF should tell you the government did it......... or at least let it happen. Look at ALL of the government buildup and justification that comes back to that one event and will keep on coming back.
I tell you what............ Here's the deal......... if NO ONE, will EVER use 9/11 again as a justification for any more of this damn government tyranny and intervention crap I will gladly let it drop. Otherwise I will spend until my dying day calling for a new investigation.
Context ...
9/11 Commissioners:
If even the 9/11 Commissioners don't buy the official story, why do you?
Senior intelligence officers:
If even our country's top intelligence officers don't buy the official story, why do you?
Congressmen:
If there is bipartisan questioning of the official story, why aren't you questioning it?
Other government officials:
If top government officials are skeptical, why aren't you?
Numerous other politicians, judges, legal scholars, and attorneys also question at least some aspects of the government's version of 9/11.
That this woman Sibel hasn't died yet is amazing. I'm guessing she stays away from air travel.
I read she's been shut up. National security and all that stuff -- you can't let the sheep know that the sheep herders are in cahoots with the wolves. She has seen what has happened to Bradley and decided it wasn't worth it.
No, I don't believe that she's "shut up." She's speaking as much as she can, given that there are court orders stating that she can't talk about a lot of stuff.
And thanks to the great work of the many trolls out there, the majority of the US population still believes in the BIG LIE. And when the bulk of people believe in something they won't tolerate any information to the contrary.
The 9/11 was not in the public eye like the invasion in Iraq. It came out of the blue...But I don't believe it was an inside job. I don't know enough about it. Warrants an open investigation.
You and me both brother. My mind just cannot seem to find its way around the idea that our own fucking government had a hand in 911.
But neither can I find a way to ignore the very apropos questions that have been raised about the official version of events. I want to know why none of these questions are ever answered or even addressed by the inquiry.
These questions are entirely legit:
1. How is it possible that steel rated to 2500 degrees melted when subjected to burning jet fuel which burns at 1300 degrees?
2. How is it possible that bldg 7 fell straight down as it did when nothing even hit the place?
3. How is possible that ALL THREE buildings pancaked in exactly the same fashion?
And there are many other questions like these, that don't require tin foil in order to be asked.
Slowly, over time my curiosity about these questions has turned to a kind of horror, and I find myself wondering, "goddamn is it really possible?".
1. There's no such thing as steel rated to 2500 degrees. Steel looses 90% of its strength at 900 degrees C, so in high heat it becomes spaghetti. That's why it's protected with fireproofing, which is either sprayed on or wrapped, and NOT designed to withstand a commercial jet impact.
2. WTC #7 didn't fall straight down. Search the net for images and you'll find one where there is water being sprayed on the wreckage from adjacent buildings that survived. You'll see WTC 7 rolled over onto its side a bit, as windows are facing UP.
3. They didn't all fall the same. However, in as much as there are similarities, only one thing need explain it: gravity. The taller a structure, the straighter it falls. It's physics. That's why these internet videos demonstrating building collapses using boxes and letter trays are done by idiots for idiots.
There are answers to your questions. There can be cover ups regarding 9-11 without the conclusion being other than a conspiracy designed and executed by AQ using american domestic airliners.
"My mind just cannot seem to find its way around the idea that our own fucking government had a hand in 911."
Operation Northwoods
But yes, WTC7 IS key.
NOTE: I refuse to use the term "pancake," as that is the offical theory ("lie") that was given, only to be pointed out that it fails the physics test (disagrees with the actual speed at which the buildings came down).
not easy to transport Wmd from USA to Iraq war zone in front of the world's eyes without getting caught out. Imagine the fall out if you get caught! worse than the Watergate. That kills you in the White House like cyanide. No deal, too risky! Imagine how many people would know about the phony plant. Takes big logistics to manage. Bureaucrats love to screw up what can be screwed up!
Right basically all that applies to the domestic US absent everyone unwittingly being on video 100times a day. Would have taken virtually no effort to have done it and once they are there it is game over.
Givemeafukkingbreakalready, exponentially easier to plant WMDS than pull off 9/11 and if they were behind 9/11 it is the next logical step.
But they would rather abdicate power than do the simplest thing on earth with trained professionals half way around the globe. Can't deliver mail or plow the roads properly, they screw up everything on earth but pulled off this elaborate domestic attack but wouldn't plant WMDS not under the domestic microscope on the other side of the planet.
The American people were lied into believing that SADDAM was behind 9/11. So they didn't need WMDs:
Fear Turns People Into Sheep Many in the armed services STILL believe that we are in Iraq because Saddam did 9/11...good point, they hinged the entire success or failure on finding WMDS.
But didn't bother planting them although they were behind 9/11.
The most nonsensical crap slung by you yet.
By the way great disconnect between Hussein and terrorism,
it is a coincidence that the radical islamic terrorist is blowing himself up vs trained volunteers now there instead of on Main St USA here-or they like the USA all of a sudden.
and another coincidence that the US military is not fighting the Iraqi army but the radical islamists.
and for sure Saddam never got involved with state sponsored terrorism-if not, for sure him and his POS sons never would have. Why would Hussein and Company ever get involved in state sponsored terrorism? a good actor like him, makes no sense at all.
Try to stick to the no plant of WMDS in Iraq though it may eventually make your head explode which would save the world from anymore of your unadulterated agenda ridden bullshit.
Good luck talking sense to the Twoofers. I learned long ago that you might as well try teaching your cat Russian.
Your question asks questions that cannot be ascertained without getting into the heads of the perps (and, since we've had NO legal prosecution of the act we can't actually say with certainty WHO the perps were).
Quit wasing time and answer THE question: how did WTC7 come down? No speculation about who or what motives, but HOW! It's conveniently there to see for evidence. NOTE: it's interesting who the occupants of WTC7 were, what was going on in that building.
"Xkwisetly Paneful" ...
Ran the troll's name through Babel Fish... translates to...
Staunchly Stupefied
Those inspection teams were in there fast behind US troops. The whole world wanted to know. Couldn't move US made WMDs and pretend they were Iraqi brand in front of neutral inspectors! Risky. Not that easy.
Agreed. Those in the US have to realize the rest of the world was not buying the Iraq war arguments
Right no changing any fanatics mind.
They sold the guy the stuff in the first place.
It is largely a barren wasteland with no border control,
infinitely easier to pull of than 9/11.
"It is largely a barren wasteland with no border control,"
And all the belivers in the BIG LIE were saying that this was the reason why WMD (again, ONLY nukes are classified as WMD) were taken out of Iraq, and that's why the US couldn't find them!
Yeah, right, the most heavily surveiled country on the planet (years of no-fly zones) and we would miss something like this?
Again, why would YOU think it wiser to expose YOUR troops to WMD? And if you were caught doing that how long do you think that you'd have the support of the US citizens, not to mention the bulk of the military? I'd think that it would take down the government right away. The risk was WAY too high, especially when you could fake it all! (mobile weapons labs, old expired shells, etc.).
9/11 was psy-ops. It bought a decaying empire a couple of more decades. Remember: Enron had just been exposed; the financial bubble was heading down the pike approaching its day of reckoning.
If they sold it in the first place then why didn't they find what they sold??? That kills that theory dead right from square one.
Really?
I sold a car to my neighbor 20yrs ago and it isn't in his garage so it must not have happened.
"Xkwisetly Paneful" ...
Babel Fish... translates to...
Staunchly Stupefied
More wasteful government.
Same people still saying the moon landing was staged in a studio as well.
Answer one simple question left wing whackjobs.
If the US government had anything to do with 9/11 why didn't same people plant WMDS in Iraq?
something far easier to achieve.
<crickets chirping>
Are you the same idiot that keeps bringing this easty-to-rebut question up? I've answered it before, and quite easily at that.
When you can make people see airplanes brining down towers (something that's never happened before), then making them believe that there are WMDs (never mind that only nukes really classify as such) thousands of miles away is pretty easy.
If you took a poll you'd probably find that most STILL believe that there were WMD. I bet YOU believed it: who knows for how long you were duped by it all...
And, to my check-mate rebuttal- Why would you put WMD among your invading troops? I was asking this question BEFORE Iraq was invaded: at that time I was asking why we were sending troops into areas in which "WMDs" could be set off, that this didn't make sense that we've be doing this, and that this told me that it wasn't likely that there actually were WMDs there. I relied on conservative ("Republican") Scott Ritter's description of his involvement with disarming Saddam (of the chemical weapons the US gave him).
Because Silverstein didn't control a skyscaper in Iraq?
Maybe Saddam would have objected to Mossad placing explosives in an Iraqi bldg. Ya think?
Nobody planted them because we thought we'd find the ones we sold them, not realizing Saddam destroyed them first (due to lack of maintenance)...
This could get good, but it's going to need a lot more backing than just Cali. It's got one lonely vote at least.
<crickets chirping>
California isn't inthe position to tell anybody anything or demand anything.
It's got a worse balance sheet than Greece did, it's bankrupt, it's about to ask the Federal government for a bailout, it's economy is an abosulte mess, it's politicians are utterly corrupt, it's social programs are breaking down.
I know, I live here, and am currently planning my escape.
It's no mistake that the problems with CA started i Texas, with the Electric Power Swindle and all, from which we got G.W.
Everything is an accident.
Unfortunately, I too live in CA, I agree with your assessment, and I'm also in the process of planning my escape.
All that said, California is an invaluable peice of the national economy, and for that reason still has some credibility on the national scene. This initiative provides a legal basis for grass roots efforts to rally around. If enough jurisdictions are pushed by their constituents to pass resolutions supporting the investigation, the cause of folks interested in the truth will be advanced, even if the initiative in CA fails.
California is a cess pool of bad governance, but the state's direct democracy system is still an invaluable tool for folks to take on the powers that be. So even if you move away, go get your local government to endorse the effort wherever you end up. Good luck.
I really don't care about 9/11 anymore.
It's blatantly obvious to me that something fishy went on during that day, precisely what, I don't think will ever be known.
A bunch of odd things happened.
Yeah, something F'ed up happened. The government isn't going to investigate it - it doesn't matter what initiative is taken, they don't want to know.
Remember the investigation to figure out what happened to blow up the financial system? That was a whitewash too, and they did this when it's obvious what actually happened.
Our government is a banana republic and you're on the losing side of it. Get over it.
When the dollar collapses, you can bet your ass there will be an "investigation" into how that could have possibly happened too. When Social Security goes insolvent, investigation. How How? Golly, I'm a fucking moron, and I can't possibly understand what happened if government says they can't understand what happened.
Americans trust their government way too much.
I agree with you that federal commissions have been worthless, but this initiative is a different beast, with lots of provisions making its commission independent of both the state and federal government to the maximum extent possible.
I also agree with you about the banana republic conclusion. But this country was once great, and could rise out of the ashes of this financial mess to be great again, if we can work together. This is our country, and the Constitution is still an amazing basis for a great society, we only need drive out the sellouts who've overwhelmed our institutions. The potential for restoration is there; read the quotes of our founding fathers and other great Americans that GW so eloquently strings together in this thread; in our shared history lies the road map.
The fall of the dollar will be a great opportunity to change our path. We must limit the federal government and restore the power of local governments, the only ones in America worth a damn. These discretionary wars for oil and bailouts for the crooked rich have awoken many. Pain has a way of doing that, and I think we're both expecting more pain. So lets not give up on the pursuit of truth just yet. If the initiative can help toward that end, I'm for it.
Take an entirely hypothetical situation that Dick Cheney along with the Project for the New American Century along with a rogue group in the CIA and Mossad trained a group of would be terrorists to drive planes into the World Trade Centers, without this group of terrorists realizing that it was the CIA and Mossad training them for this operation.
Say that there is compelling evidence that some group find this out, but not hard proof, because the CIA and Mossad has all the hard evidence classified.
What do you have? Oh - a bunch of conspiracy nuts claim this, CIA and Mossad writes it off as crazy, the US media denounces it as the findings of a group of anti-Semites and American lunatics.
The end.
That's about the best you can ever hope for - so who gives a crap?
All of the odd things you posted have been thoroughly debunked. Google is your friend.
Oh please. As if I've not read all the explanations. The BBC's explanation was especially pathetic.
The most tiresome thing I read about 9/11 is "everything you point out is wrong, believe me, look it up". You're just simply lazy. It's easier to believe that you can trust the government than just realize you cannot. I trust the government about 9/11 just as much as I trusted them about suggesting that people buy ARM mortgages when Greenspan was still king of the Federal Reserve, just as much as I believed them about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, just as much as I believed them when they were claiming Hussein worked with Al Qaeda, just as much as I believed them when they claimed they wanted to make Iraq democratic, just as much as I believed them when they claimed there were green shoots in the economy, etc, etc, etc ad nauseum, barf and puke.
They are a group of liars, morons, sychophants, and sociopaths and they have the same amount of disdain for your average American, as I now do. It's not just 9/11 that makes people like you I think a bit naive, it's a huge list. From Operation Ajax to Operation Northwoods, from Project MKUltra to "Quantitative Easing". You'll believe anything. Well, actually you'll probably believe anything if the Republican establishment says it, the other half of the morons of the US believes anything as long as the Democratic establishment says it.
Remember, we have a strong dollar policy too. They wouldn't lie about that, would they?
None of you deserve a good government, you're too dumb to have one, so you won't. You're going to get this government.
You are absolutely right. The only thing we will ever be able to say with a certainty is we will never know the truth.
Anyone who disagrees with that is either a government shill or a mental midget.
Do a Santa Osama binClaus cartoon with the wanted poster of his 19 Magic Elves.
The Truth is out there... Push for it!
Laugh at the bastards...it'll drive them to distraction and they will make more mistakes.
Non-sequitor William - Who ever knows everything about anything?
Let's expose more of the truth about 9/11. Let's debunk the official fairy-tale.
true, with Google, you can always find someone saying something you want to hear :/
The worst part about leaving could be finding out that all other states are in the same condition.
Count your blessings if you are working or have income, anywhere. I'm going back to the basics; gardening, investing, saving, paying down debt, staying away from conspicuous consumption, etc. Cali born and raised. I've had a lot of great travels, but I find it hard to leave.
The Bear Flag was raised over a pretty special place and we have the opportunities to hike, fish, bike, kayak, sit, picnic, surf, etc. I try to appreciate those things. We may leave one day, but if so, it will be because of Amerika's lack of will to fight fascism, corporatocracy, and never-ending economic, militaristic, and financial colonialism..
9/11 could be the start of the people's fight! Audit the Fed and open the books of Pentagon spending.
Yes, but I can buy 4 homes for cash in any other state. I can buy a shithole run down shack for that here.
Why bother to plant the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
Fox news reported they were there, don't you remember?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html
Exactly everyone on earth that wasn't in the corrupt food for oil program or named Hans Blix thought they were there.
Thanks for playing though nonsensical self loathing moronistas.
Scott Ritter, the UN weapons inspector, the ex marine, the lifelong Republican was pretty vocal about his opinion that Hussein didn't possess any real WMDs capability.
When he started saying this, he was first accused of being on the payroll of Saddam Hussein.
When that didn't work, he was accused of being a pedophile.
Our government is full of crap, and it now plays go along to get along. What you're seeing now is the wholesale rip off of the nation, before it collapses. That's all the bailouts are, nothing more.
People who trust either the Republican or Democratic leadership are complete morons, unfortunately, that's 90% of the US population at least. Doesn't matter who you elect. Obama is president..
All these actions were started by Bush and were very controversial, and Democrats denounced them. Why haven't any of them stopped? You're a complete sucker. Bush was lying though his teeth. Obama isn't any different, and the next puppet in charge won't be any different either.
Scott Ritter was arrested three times for being a pedophile. Was he setup? Well the cops let em off once.
Sure everyone as in every nation not in on the corrupt oil for food program.
You people kept insisting economic sanctions were working and that has proven to be incredibly false thanks to the French.
If they were behind 9/11 the next logical step is to insure WMDS are in Iraq by planting them there themselves.
Even if they 100% believed they were there already.
Not too bright to hinge an entire war campaign on finding them and absent finding them not planting them. But so bright as to pull off 9/11.
Just cannot make up the depths of lunacy.
Cannot possibly post it any simpler and there is nothing sensible that makes sense to the contrary other than they were obviously not behind 9/11.
hang your hat on one whack job and ignore the simplistically obvious par for the course.