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Pentagon Papers Whistleblowers and Congressman Call for a New 9/11 Investigation

George Washington's picture





 

The two main players in releasing the Pentagon Papers were Daniel Ellsberg and United States Senator Mike Gravel.

Senator Gravel is the person who read the Pentagon Papers into the Congressional Record. This act made the papers public record, so that they could not be censored by the government. He was the only member of Congress courageous enough to do so.

Both Ellsberg and Gravel - like many other high-level former officials in the government and intelligence services (including many well-known whistleblowers) - support a new 9/11 investigation. Ellsberg says that the case of a certain 9/11 whistleblower is "far more explosive than the Pentagon Papers". (Here's some of what that whistleblower says.) He also said that the government is ordering the media to cover up her allegations about 9/11.

And he said that some of the claims concerning government involvement in 9/11 are credible, that "very serious questions have been raised about what they [U.S. government officials] knew beforehand and how much involvement there might have been", that engineering 9/11 would not be humanly or psychologically beyond the scope of those in office, and that there's enough evidence to justify a new, "hard-hitting" investigation into 9/11 with subpoenas and testimony taken under oath (see this and this).

Gravel is now backing a California ballot initiative for a new 9/11 investigation. The text of the initiative is below.

The initiative would actually help support the 9/11 Commission and fulfill the desire of the 9/11 Commissioners. Specifically, the Commission was severely underfunded:

  • The government spent $175 million investigating the Challenger space shuttle disaster.
  • It spent $152 million on the the Columbia disaster investigation.

  • It spent $30 million investigating the Monica Lewinsky scandal.
  • But the government only authorized $15 million for the 9/11 Commission.

Moreover, many 9/11 Commissioners said they never completed the investigation:

The initiative would allow deeper questions to be asked about 9/11, allow the 9/11 debate to continue, investigate the remaining mysteries of 9/11, and help to get to the full story, as the 9/11 Commissioners themselves want. (The Commissioners haven't yet read the initiative).


The initiative is unusual because it would allow other state governments, and even local governments, within California or any other state, two different options to officially express support for the new commission’s investigation pursuant to the initiative’s terms. Under the first option, a state or local government could enter a joint powers agreement with the commission to join the investigation and to share resources with the commission. Under the second option, a state or local government could endorse the efforts of the commission, at no cost to the state or local government, merely by the governing body of that state or local government passing an official resolution expressly supporting the commission’s investigation.


The initiative is also unusual because it goes the extra mile to ensure that the investigation will not be compromised by political considerations like the 9/11 Commission and the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission were. Specifically, it amends the state constitution to name Senator Gravel as the initial director and ensures that commissioners are appointed on the basis of their qualifications, and not political considerations. The initiative would name former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney as the initial director if Gravel is unable to serve in that capacity.


This sounds very odd at first, but a lawyer formerly with California's Office of Legislative Counsel - who drafted the initiative on behalf of Senator Gravel - states that these provisions are legally sound, and that an initiative that amends the state constitution in this manner would require 807,615 signatures to be placed on the ballot, rather than 504,760 signatures (the amount normally required to put a statutory initiative on the ballot). He states that California’s Office of Legislative Counsel vetted the entire initiative and did not find its amendments to the state constitution legally problematic.

In other words, the constitutional amendment would not be as big a deal as it initially seems, as at the end of the day, it would only mean getting an additional three hundred thousand signatures in a state of 40 million.

Former U.S. Congressman Dan Hamburg from California - legendary for his role in helping to preserve the Headwaters Forest - supports the initiative. Hamburg is in a unique position to support the initiative, as he is now serving as a county supervisor for Mendocino County. With his unique background in the U.S. Congress and local government, Hamburg supports the fact that the initiative allows governments at the local and state level to support a full and complete investigation.

Lawyers for 9/11 Truth also supports the initiative in principle. That organization includes such well-known legal scholars as:

  • Ferdinando Imposimato, Honorary President of the Supreme Court of Italy. Former Senior Investigative Judge, Italy. Presided over numerous terrorism-related cases
  • Burns H. Weston, Distinguished Professor of Law Emeritus and Founding Director and Senior Scholar, Center for Human Rights, The University of Iowa, Honorary Editor, Board of Editors, American Journal of International Law
  • Andreas Von Bülow, former Assistant German Defense Minister (the number two German defense position), former Minister of Research and Technology, and a former member of the German Parliament
  • Constance Fogal, former leader, Canadian Action Party
  • J. Michael Springmann, former diplomat in the State Department's Foreign Service, with postings to Germany, India, Saudi Arabia, and the Bureau of Intelligence and Research in Washington, D.C. He was the head of the U.S. consular official in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, and is the published author of several articles on national security themes

Here is the draft initiative, with commentary:

(The following is the text of the California Initiative measure creating a new 9/11 investigative commission to be submitted directly to the voters at the general election in November 2012, with comments within ( ) for clarity. By law the title and summary of an initiative are required to be written by the Attorney General of California after the initiative is officially filed with the state government.)

(A suggested title)

The 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission Act

(A suggested summary)

This measure would establish within state government the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission in order to conduct a citizen-based, comprehensive, and truly independent investigation into events relating to the attacks of September 11, 2001. The measure would:

(1) Grant the commission all investigatory powers of the state, including the power of subpoena;

(2) Authorize the commission to enter into a joint powers agreement with any public entity within the United States and to exercise any investigatory power of any of the contracting powers in conducting the investigation;

(3) Amend the California Constitution to appoint former United States Senator Mike Gravel as the initial Director of the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission, and in his absence Representative Cynthia McKinney, to ensure the political independence of the commission from government interference through the appointment process, and to provide the commission credibility with respect to the transparency of its operations;

(4) Appropriate an amount equal to $0.50 per resident of the state from the General Fund to the director to conduct and administrate the investigation;

(5) Specify conditions governing its future amendment; and

(6) Provide that if a provision of the measure is held invalid, that provision’s invalidity will not render the remainder of the measure invalid.

(The Preamble)

TO THE HONORABLE SECRETARY OF STATE OF CALIFORNIA

We, the undersigned, registered, qualified voters of California, residents of ____ County (or City and County), hereby propose amendments to the Constitution of California and the Code, and petition the Secretary of State to submit the same to the voters of California for their adoption or rejection at the next succeeding general election or at any special statewide election held prior to that general election or otherwise provided by law. (The “official summary date,” the date that the Attorney General sends the title and summary for the initiative measure to the proponent, is also the date that the Secretary of State will use to determine the calendar deadlines applicable to the measure. All requisite signatures must be received within 150 days of the official summary date. The requisite number of signatures and other qualifications for placement on the November 2, 2012 Presidential General Election ballot must be met at least 131 days before that election—May 24, 2012.) The proposed constitutional amendments read as follows:

SECTION 1. This act shall be known and may be cited as the 9/11 Citizens

Investigation Commission Act.

(A declaration of facts that warrant the enactment of the initiative by the voters.)

SECTION 2. The people of the State of California find and declare all of the

following:

(a) The events of September 11, 2001, have had a profound effect on the economic, social, and cultural well-being of Californians, and of all citizens of the United States.

(1) In the wake of that tragic day, the United States entered into the War on Terror, the War in Afghanistan, and the Iraq War. Vast amounts of the blood and treasure of the American people have been spent fighting these ongoing wars. Over 5,800 American military personnel have lost their lives in the War on Terror, and over 40,000 have been wounded. In addition, innumerable innocent civilians have also lost their lives in the War on Terror. According to a September 2, 2010, report by the federal Congressional Research Service, the cumulative total for funds appropriated in the War on Terror was $1,121,000,000,000.

(2) Since September 11, 2001, the civil liberties of Californians and other Americans have been drastically curtailed, and fundamental rights guaranteed by the United States Bill of Rights have been under attack. Government actions under the USA PATRIOT Act (Public Law 107-56), enacted on October 26, 2001, have trampled civil liberties and fundamental rights by, among other things, purportedly authorizing increased espionage against innocent United States citizens, and the indefinite detention of certain prisoners without charge.

(3) Since September 11, 2001, the federal government has decimated essential liberties of its citizens in the name of temporary safety, and this way of thinking has reached an absurd extent, in that suspicionless, systematic assault on its citizens has become a policy of the federal government. In November 2010, the Transportation Security Administration, an agency of the United States Department of Homeland Security, began implementing additional screening procedures for air travelers, including the use of invasive back-scatter X-ray scans that display nude images of the person scanned, and extensive patdowns that include the touching of the chest, genitals, and buttocks of the person inspected.

(b) Beyond these profound effects on the well-being of Californians and all United States citizens, there are other wide-ranging and substantial considerations that support the need for further investigation into the events of September 11, 2001:

(1) A false flag operation is one designed to deceive so that the operation appears as though it was carried out by another entity, rather than the actual operator, in order to foster a clandestine political effect. The history of the United States is littered with instances of the alleged use of false flag operations, especially as pretext for war or to forward a pro-war agenda. These instances include, among others, the invasion of Mexico in 1846, the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine on February 18, 1898, the sinking of the RMS Lusitania on May 7, 1915, the second Gulf of Tonkin incident claimed to have occurred on August 4, 1964, and the purported existence of weapons of mass destruction as the rationale for the invasion of Iraq in March of 2003.

(2) World Trade Center Building 7, a 47-story skyscraper that was part of the World Trade Center complex, collapsed at 5:20 p.m. on September 11, 2001, and proffered explanations for the building’s failure have been widely disputed. To date, over 1,400 architectural and engineering professionals, and over 10,000 other individuals, have signed a petition, addressed to Members of the House of Representatives and the Senate of the United States of America, demanding “a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 – specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7.”

(3) In the aftermath of September 11, 2001, the federal government established the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, also known as the 9/11 Commission, to prepare a full and complete account of, and to report on the circumstances surrounding, the attacks. However, the 9/11 Commission has been widely criticized for lacking sufficient political independence or legal authority to discharge its duties. In their book, which was co-written after the conclusion of the commission’s work, “Without Precedent: The Inside Story of the 9/11 Commission,” the commission’s Chairman, Republican Thomas H. Kean, and its Vice Chairman, Democrat Lee H. Hamilton, asserted their belief that the commission had been designed to fail. The collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 was not addressed in the 9/11 Commission’s final report.

(c) The State of California is an appropriate government entity to initiate, and to provide the legal basis for, a citizens’ investigation into the events of September 11, 2001. Californians were among those who died in the attacks of that infamous day, and many more Californians have subsequently died fighting in the War on Terror, the War in Afghanistan, and the Iraq War. Furthermore, alleged terrorist conspirators trained in California to carry out the events of September 11, 2001. Historically, California has been an economic and political leader among the states, and events relating to September 11, 2001, have drastically affected the economics and politics of both California and the country at large. For all these reasons, the initiation of a citizens’ investigation into the events of September 11, 2001, is an urgent matter of statewide concern.

(d) In order to ensure the political independence of the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission from government interference through the appointment process, and to provide the commission credibility with respect to the transparency of its operations, former United States Senator Mike Gravel shall serve as the initial director of the commission and, if Senator Gravel is unable to serve as the initial director, former Member of the United States House of Representatives Cynthia McKinney shall serve in that capacity.

(e)We, the people of the State of California, in solidarity with all citizens of the United States, direct the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission, a new investigatory commission created by this act, to conduct a citizen-based, comprehensive, and truly independent investigation into events relating to the attacks of September 11, 2001.

(This section is the amendment to the Constitution.)

SECTION 3. Section 12 of Article II of the California Constitution is amended to

read:

(a) No amendment to the Constitution, and no statute proposed to the electors by the Legislature or by initiative, that names any individual to hold any office, or names or identifies any private corporation to perform any function or to have any power or duty, may be submitted to the electors or have any effect.

(The underlined text is the addition of new text to the Constitution.)

(b) The prohibition set forth in subdivision (a) of this section shall not apply to the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission established pursuant to Chapter 9.6 (commencing with Section 8775) of Division 1 of Title 2 of the Government Code, in order to ensure the commission’s independence and to prevent federal or state government interference in its investigation or proceedings to the maximum extent allowed under the Constitution of the United States and this Constitution.

SECTION 4. Section 1 of Article VII of the California Constitution is amended to read:

(a) The civil service includes every officer and employee of the State except as otherwise provided in this Constitution.

(b) In the civil service permanent appointment and promotion shall be made under a general system based on merit ascertained by competitive examination.

(c) This section shall not apply to an officer or employee of the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission.

(The text below: Sections 5 to 8 comprise the new law added to the code by the initiative.)

SECTION 5. Section 6537 is added to the Government Code, to read:

6537. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, consistent with the United States Constitution, the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission, established pursuant to Section 8775, may enter into a joint powers agreement with any public entity within the United States, including, but not limited to, another state, a United States territory, a local government within this state, another state, or a United States territory, or an agency of the federal government, and the commission may exercise any investigatory power of any of the contracting powers to carry out the requirements of Chapter 9.6 (commencing with Section 8775) of Division 1 of Title 2.

SECTION 6. Chapter 9.6 (commencing with Section 8775) is added to Division 1

of Title 2 of the Government Code, to read:

Chapter 9.6. 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission

SECTION 8775.

The 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission is hereby created in state government as an independent commission for the purpose of investigating events relating to September 11, 2001. It is the intent of the residents of the State that the commission not be subject to state executive or legislative branch control, and that the state not interfere with the investigation or proceedings of the commission. The federal government is likewise requested to not interfere with commission activities.

SECTION 8776.

(a) The commission shall impartially and objectively investigate the

events of, leading up to, and in the aftermath of September 11, 2001, as those events relate to the economic, social, and cultural well-being of the residents of California, those under the jurisdiction of a public entity that enters into the joint powers agreement authorized by Section 6537, or those under the jurisdiction of a public entity that endorses the investigation and proceedings of the commission pursuant to Section 8782.

(1) The investigation shall include, but not be limited to, the destruction of the World Trade Center in New York City, the attack on the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, the crash of Flight 93 at Shanksville, Pennsylvania, the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and the Global War on Terror.

(2) The investigation shall consider the content and findings of previous

investigations into the events of, leading up to, or the aftermath of September 11, 2001, including, but not limited to, any work product of the federal 9/11 Commission or the “Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities before and after the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001” conducted by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

(3) The investigation shall consider perceived shortcomings or weaknesses in the report created by the federal 9/11 Commission, including, but not limited to, any scientific weaknesses or shortcomings.

(4) The investigation shall conclude within five years of the operative date of the act that added this chapter.

(b) Upon the conclusion of its investigation, the commission shall produce a report for issuance to the Governor, the members of the Senate Committee on Rules, the Speaker of the Assembly, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, and to each public entity that enters into the joint powers agreement authorized by Section 6537 or endorses the investigation and proceedings of the commission pursuant to Section 8782. The report shall identify all of the following:

(1) Any indication of criminal activity warranting prosecution. If the criminal activity identified may constitute a war crime or a crime against humanity, the commission shall report that criminal activity and its apparent perpetrators, as identified in the report to the International Criminal Court.

(2) Any individual or corporation that profited unduly from the events investigated by the commission.

(3) Any other relevant malfeasance, and the apparent perpetrators, if any, of that malfeasance.

SECTION 8777.

(a) In conducting its investigation, the commission shall have, and may exercise, all investigatory powers of the state, including, but not limited to, the power of subpoena. In addition, the commission may exercise any investigatory power that is lawfully granted to it pursuant to a joint powers agreement authorized by Section 6537, or is lawfully granted to it by a public entity that endorses the investigation and proceedings of the commission pursuant to Section 8782.

(b) The scope of the commission’s investigatory powers shall be interpreted broadly.

(c) Section 8101 shall not apply to any compact or agreement entered into by the commission.

SECTION 8778.

(a) The commission shall be led by the Director of the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission, who shall serve as the commission’s chief executive officer and be responsible for administrating the investigation and proceedings of the commission. Due to his unique credibility on issues of government transparency, former United States Senator Mike Gravel shall serve as the initial director of the commission. If Senator Gravel is unable to serve as the initial director, because of her unique credibility on issues of government transparency former Member of the United States House of Representatives Cynthia McKinney shall serve in that capacity. If the initial director or a subsequent director is removed from the commission pursuant to paragraph (4) of subdivision (a) of Section 8780, the commission shall elect a new director as provided in that paragraph.

(b) The director shall serve as chairperson of the commission and govern the public proceedings of the commission.

(c) As the chief executive officer of the commission, the director shall have plenary power over, and be solely accountable for, the fiscal operations of the commission. The director shall allocate the commission’s funding to discharge its objectives in the most efficient and effective manner possible.

SECTION 8779.

(a) The director may employ staff as the director determines necessary to discharge the duties of the commission.

(b) (1) Subject to the advice and consent of the commission, the director shall appoint a Special Investigator who shall be responsible for conducting the investigation and compiling the report. The Special Investigator shall report directly to the director, and shall follow up on the directives of, and report his or her findings to, the commission.

(2) The Special Investigator shall serve at the pleasure of the commission. The commission may remove the Special Investigator if a majority of the commission votes in favor of removal. If the commission removes the Special Investigator, the director shall appoint a replacement in the manner specified in paragraph (1).

(3) All other staff of the commission shall be at-will employees, and shall serve at the pleasure of the director.

(c) An employee of the commission shall be compensated for his or her employment, if at all, in a manner consistent with the compensation practices of the state with respect to the employees of state advisory bodies.

(d) Each employee of the commission shall execute the following oath or

affirmation of office as a condition of his or her service: “I, (name), hereby swear or affirm that I will, to the best of my ability, defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of the State of California, and the principle of truth in governance in investigating the events of, leading up to, and in the aftermath of September 11, 2001.”

SECTION 8780.

(a) The commission shall be made up of at least 15 members, including the director, who shall serve as chairperson of the commission. The director shall determine the number of members of the commission, subject to the condition that the total membership of the commission shall equal an odd number.

(b) (1) Members shall be persons having specific expertise or experience that will aid or assist in the efforts of the commission. To the maximum extent feasible, the members of the commission shall not be public officials.

(2) The director shall appoint members, from among candidates nominated by a resident of this state, or a resident of a public entity that enters into the joint powers agreement authorized by Section 6537 or endorses the investigation and proceedings of the commission pursuant to Section 8780.

(3) Members of the commission shall serve for as long as necessary to complete the investigation, but for no longer than five years from the operative date of the act that added this chapter.

(4) (A) Any member of the commission, including the director, may be removed by a two-thirds vote of the commission, and a replacement member shall be appointed pursuant to this subdivision.

(B) If the commission votes to remove the director from the commission, it shall elect a member of the commission to subsequently serve as the director, and a replacement member shall be appointed pursuant to this subdivision.

SECTION 8781.

(a) (1) A sum equal to the amount of 50 cents ($0.50) per resident of the state is hereby transferred from the General Fund to the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Fund, which is hereby created in the State Treasury, and is continuously appropriated to the director to be expended in accordance with this chapter. For purposes of this subdivision, the population of the state shall be determined in accordance with the 2010 United States Census.

(2) Moneys in the fund shall be expended solely for the purposes of the commission.

(b) (1) Any public entity that enters into the joint powers agreement authorized by Section 6537 shall contribute to funding the operations of the commission as specified, if at all, in the joint powers agreement.

(2) No contribution to the funding of the operations of the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission shall be required of a public entity that endorses the investigation and proceedings of the commission pursuant to Section 8782.

(c) The commission may accept donations to fund its operations from any public

or private entity, in accordance with existing law. Any donation for the operations of the commission shall be deposited in the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Fund and shall be expended only in accordance with this chapter.

SECTION 8782.

Consistent with the United States Constitution, a public entity within the United States, including, but not limited to, another state, a United States territory, or a local government within this state, another state, or a United States territory, may, as an alternative to entering into a joint powers agreement pursuant to Section 6537, endorse the investigation and proceedings of the 9/11 Citizens Investigation Commission by passing a resolution endorsing the efforts of the commission. Endorsement by a public agency in this manner shall authorize the commission, in its investigation, to take into account effects of the events of, leading up to, and in the aftermath of September 11, 2001, as they relate to the economic, social, and cultural well-being of the residents under the jurisdiction of the endorsing public entity.

SECTION 8783.

(a) The commission shall be subject to the Bagley-Keene Open Meeting Act (Article 9 (commencing with Section 11120) of Chapter 1 of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2) and the California Public Records Act (Chapter 3.5 (commencing with Section 6250) of Division 7 of Title 1). In order to avoid a conflict of laws, if the commission enters into an agreement with an entity in another state, the commission shall be subject to only the public records and public meeting laws of this state. In accordance with Section 3 of Article I of the California Constitution, the commission shall accommodate a reasonable disclosure request that is beyond the requirements of those laws, unless the commission provides a reasonable explanation for the denial of the particular disclosure request.

(b) As a first priority after its organization, the commission shall establish an Internet Web site. The commission shall regularly update its Internet Web site in order to promptly provide access to the public information required to be disclosed pursuant to subdivision (a), and to ensure that the information on the Internet Web site is as up to date as possible.

SECTION 8784.

In order to ensure conformity and clarity, all members and staff of the commission shall be subject to the conflict-of-interest laws of this state.

SECTION 7.

Consistent with subdivision (c) of Section 10 of Article II of the California Constitution, Sections 5 and 6 of this act may be amended only by a subsequent measure submitted to a vote of the people at a statewide election, or by a statute approved by two-thirds of the membership of each house of the Legislature and signed by the Governor that furthers the purposes of the act.

SECTION 8.

If any provision of this act, or any part thereof, is for any reason held to be invalid or unconstitutional, the remaining provisions shall not be affected, but shall remain in full force and effect, and to this end the provisions of this act are severable.

#######

For more information, contact the proponents of the initiative at CA911initiative@gmail.com.

 


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Wed, 03/09/2011 - 11:50 | Link to Comment SilverFiend
SilverFiend's picture

I would support a new 9/11 commission.  And since we are talking conspiracy theories I would also support a commission to investigate the President's birth certificate to make sure he is not the communist Manchurian candidate.  I just wish that I would believe both of the official outcomes.  No matter what the findings I fear that both sides, the stealth socialists or the corptocracy would present counter facts and figures and that in the end you would still not know the truth after we spent 150 million we do not have.  Personally I do not believe that the American people know the full truth about a lot of things. 

With that in mind, I believe there should be investigations about a lot of things.  Number one on my list would be the undermining of the democratic process in this country by the big donors who buy the both political parties.  On one side you have the stealth socialists and communists and on the other you have corporate interests big oil, banks, etc.  So how about making the push for investigations fair Mr. Washington?  If one side would push for 9/11 investigations the other would push for investigations into lets say,  the 527 donations of George Soros and the influence they have on our electoral process.  Us in the middle will never get to the truth if we only investigate in a biased slant.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 12:30 | Link to Comment Magnum
Magnum's picture

Uh, 9/11 is a bit more important than investigating who donates to George Soros.  zzzzzzz.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 11:51 | Link to Comment SilverFiend
SilverFiend's picture

OOPS!  Double post. 

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 11:44 | Link to Comment Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

That last thing Americans will realize is that Russia was behind 9/11:

http://thespiritoftruth.blogspot.com/2010/09/russia-was-behind-911.html

The World Trade Center towers and Pentagon were the ultimate symbols of American "Capitalism" and "Imperialism".  Who would have gloated more over their destruction than the Kremlin, especially if 9/11 was carried out in such a manner that the world would never blame Moscow.  You all have been grossly deceived.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 12:34 | Link to Comment Magnum
Magnum's picture

Is that why 5 Russians were caught with cameras trained on the twin towers on 9/11 before the planes hit? Dancing and celebrating at the moment of impact?

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 11:34 | Link to Comment bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

i never cared much for conspiracy theories about 9-11, but when the mandarin hotel fire happened in 2009 i saw it and it reminded me of 9-11.

i came to believe that tower seven ( a third building 2 blocks from the twins--standing about 50 stories high) was demolished with explosives from the inside.

then i saw this http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html

and then i watched this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUzotlriBKQ

i can't say the twin towers are the same size as the mandarin hotel, but it is clear that tower seven was the same size. and tower seven had only one floor on fire. 

and then when you watch tower seven collapse video (tower seven was never hit by a plane and had the cia headquarters in it ---these are undisputed facts) it's pretty obvious that the building was demolished with explosives from the inside. there IS room for doubt about tower seven NOT being demolished, but there's little room for a casual observer like myself. there's no way fire took down tower seven.  my explanation is that the CIA could not afford to have it's offices investigated so they wired the building to implode. to me , this is seems a reasonable explanation without having to indulge in major conspiracy theories. 

 

 

 

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 11:31 | Link to Comment ArgentDawn
ArgentDawn's picture

I'd almost prefer the .gov would come out and say "don't worry about it" and not spend the money and politicize it even further. If they are gonna lie, why spend all that money on crafting a story. Just say it's none of our business, what would we do about it anyway? Complain? Make a new Nat'nl Geo. 1 hour documentary on it? I don't think America wants to know it's .gov eats it's own.

Most Americans would be happy with that answer because they are not paying attention anyway.

 

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 11:26 | Link to Comment PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Sunlight is a good cleanser for Filthy Laundry....

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 11:04 | Link to Comment Bagbalm
Bagbalm's picture

I've always figured they were just more successful than they aimed to be. They probably figured a few hundred killed and a couple floors of fire damage to repair. When the towers went down they were probably sitting watching and said - "Oops, son-of-a-bitch! Who could have known?"

I like to compare it to the StarTrek movie where the Klingon gunner is ordered to shoot the orbiting Federation Starship's engines and disable it. He puts one lousey shot in the engines and the whole ship blows up into a zillion glowing shards. "Lucky shot," he says in apology...

Thu, 03/10/2011 - 16:44 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

good point, science fiction is the only thing the official theory can compare too. 

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 11:00 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

What's the opposite of a "Truther?"  A Liar.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 10:53 | Link to Comment Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture

Thanks, GW.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 09:56 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

Let's just call this proposed commission what it is, "The Truther Commmission for California Kooks and Lunatics" brought to you by the conspiracy outliars (sic) at the Daily Kos.

Daniel Ellsberg: Socialist phony and hypocrite, who released the Pentagon Papers only after a Republican  was elected president. Didn't have the courage of his convictions to do it while his own liberal friends, Kennedy and Johnson, were still in the White House. After getting the US into Vietnam, he helped Dems get us out by suddenly defunding it, undermining the Paris Peace talks, leading to the genocide of 3 million people there and in Cambodia. 9-11 Truther.

Mike Gravel: Socialist democrat who, as former Senator, supported a National Initiative -- Federal Referendums -- along with marxist/commmunists Howard Zinn, Ralph Nader, and Noam Chomsky.

Cynthia McKinney: Socialist democrat, Green party member, congresswoman, 9-11 Truther, and corn row nutbag who assaulted a Capital Hill policeman, and also wanted a congressional investigation into the conspiracy drive by shooting death of rapper Tupac Shakur.

Let me recommend some other 9-11 Truthers and credible individuals to be on the commission:

1. Jeanine Garafolo -- because she always dresses like a pile of dirty clothes on the floor. Marxist street cred. 9-11 Truther.

2. Kanye West -- because Bush didn't like black people and he hates Taylor Swift and other white people.

3. Sean Penn -- because he's marxist, Hollywood, beats his wives, and loves totalitarians Hugo Chavez, Castro, Saddam Hussein and Ahmed-dim-wad of Iran. 9-11 Truther.

4. Van Jones -- because he's already out as a communist, 9-11 Truther, and favors cop killers. Trifekta perfekta!

5. Khalid S. Mohammed -- because he's not really the planner who murdered 3000 people, or the guy who cut off Daniel Pearl's head; he's the real victim because he's in Gitmo now

6. Daffy Duck -- because he's the most qualified so far and has the inside track for Commission Chairman. Has been personally blown up and survived many times. Understands the Cartoon Theory of Physics behind sudden non sequitur out-of-frame visual props.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 10:44 | Link to Comment Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture

^^ More proof the traditional bell curve has shifted left.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 23:15 | Link to Comment the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

that asshole is not the left. shut up about the left because you don't know anything about it.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 09:16 | Link to Comment tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

My prediction is that when Dick Cheney is gone, the investigation will be reopened.

Go to the 22 minute mark in this video and listen to the eyewitness account of government and military observers of the plane that "flew over" the Pentagon and reportedly never crashed.  Then what hit the Pentagon?   http://vimeo.com/5665486

Dave Harrison

http://tradewithdave.com/?p=5234

 

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 08:53 | Link to Comment working class dog
working class dog's picture

Instead of spending billions on getting the same gangsters re-elected the media should take in billions on finding out the truth an correcting the mistakes that cause unneccesary thousands to die for the greed of a few elite. Fighting against terror and tyranny are rightous, but first find out who the mischief makers are and than direct the fury to those deserving.

Pray to god this will happen. Keep up the brave fight.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 08:05 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

Ah yes, more sophistry from GW.

I would love to see another investigation.  I'd love it to be made up of "experts" from both sides of the issue.  Let science prevail.  Give everybody on the panel a stopwatch, then play the videos of the buildings collapsing.  Let's see how it fits the definition of "freefall".  Close enough?  Sorry, gravity is not approximate.  It's exact or it's something else.

Let's see how much the structural integrity of steel is compromised at 1300 degrees.  Let's see how much expansion of steel takes place at that temperature, and let's build a steel shell structure just like the buildings that collapsed and see if we can do it again.

Let's get Sully the Hudson Hero to pilot a plane and see if he can fly it at 400+ mph into an EXACT floor of a tall building, since where the planes struck is EXACTLY where the structural failure first occured and the collapse began.  Obviously that is where the charges and the nanothermite would have to have been placed.

I'm a private pilot, but I am not rated on a 757 or 767.  Still, let me fly one of these from Boston and see if I can find New York City.  I guarantee you I can, using pilotage, or maps, or VOR's or GPS or by programming the autopilot.  Finding the Pentagon after taking off from Dulles is even easier.  I guarantee I can even bring the aircraft over the numbers of any runway of any airport in the US, though I might have trouble landing it.  Of course I could crash it no problem.

Let's heat some aluminum aircraft metal to 1300 degrees, mix it with wood and plastic office furniture and other building materials, then see what color it is.

Let's get some former workers in Building 7 to tell what time they evacuated their building, because it was on fire (well before noon).

Let's have four aircraft turn off their transponders, then ask ATC to find them amongst the roughly 8000 commercial aircraft in flight at any time on a Tuesday morning, along with an equal or greater number of private aircraft.

Let's use some math and calculate the kinetic energy contained in ten or twenty or thirty stories of building falling on the floors underneath it, and get ranges of how quickly such a building could be fully razed, and let's also guess the direction such forces would be directed given the uniformity of the structure and the materials used in its makeup.  Nobody is afraid of math, right?  Math is pretty objective, too, is it not?  Oh, and then ask if that kinetic energy could also result in fires burning in the rubble for a week, even without the ConEd substation underneath.

Let's call Hamilton and Kerrey and Bob Baer and ask them what the full context of their quotes cited by GW was, rather than just accept his selectivity and editing.  Could it be that "not having the whole story" might mean that not all shamed and embarrassed officials wanted to state for the record how incompetent they were, or how protective of their turf they were, which resulted in the tragedy?  Could Baer's "inside job" quote mean that perhaps the hijackers had friends at airports or aircraft maintenance crews?  Let's just ask.  Clarification never hurts, right?

Let's ask Michael Springman why his experience in Jeddah as a Consular officer a decade before 911 is relevant to anything, and then ask him if any visas he might have been encouraged to grant might have been related to the then-ongoing US operations to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.

Let's call a few of the witnesses who watched the commercial aircraft strike the Pentagon.  A friend of mine of thirty years is one such witness.  While playing golf nearby, the entire foursome watched the remarkedly low approach one plane was making to Reagan National, and they all watched in horror as it struck.  Let's put them under oath, or sodium pentathol if need be.

Let's get the top demolition expert in the world and ask him or her how long it would take to lay charges in the buildings, given that the tallest building ever brought down by controlled demolition was 27 stories.

Let's toss out all the racist nonsense about Jews being warned to stay home on 911;  instead we can just read the names of the deceased.  Let's also toss out the racist nonsense that a group of Arabs couldn't put together such a  simple plan with five years of consideration, and let's ask actor James Woods to testify about what he thought was a dry run on a flight he took from Boston to LA a year or two before.

Let's ponder why a controlled demolition made more sense than an east-west split into the Hudson and East Rivers, which would have been infinitely more spectacular.

Let's take Colin Firth's Oscar and hand it over to George Bush for that pretend look of surprise he had when Andrew Card told him of the first aircraft strike.

Let's get a few CIA case officers on the stand and ask them how much they really like Mossad and how well they get along.  Just for fun, and to get a YouTube viral reaction, let's ask the case officers how much in favor they might be of letting Jonathan Pollard go free.

Let's get this "FBI translator" on the stand and ask what he/she knows, given that translators are generally GS-5 employees native in the language they translate from and very very unlikely to ever accompany an FBI agent to a meeting with Osama bin Laden (sic) or to have any knowledge outside of their limited job responsibilities.

Let's also try to remember what 2001 was like and if humanity might already have had copy machines or thumb drives on which duplicates of the "Bush Enron" documents might have existed outside of one floor in Building 7.

Let's ask the operator of a flight training center if, prior to 911, it took anything other than money to buy time on a 757 or 767 simulator.

Let's also not do a great disservice to what might be budding democracies in the Middle East by showing that democracy sometimes leads to abominations such as Cynthia McKinney.

Let's get everything out on the table, expert against expert (sorry, no fundamentalist preachers with no math or engineering background qualify as experts, and neither does Charlie Sheen).

Then we can put this to bed, and let Zerohedge go back to handling articles on financial corruption and fiscal profligacy.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 12:26 | Link to Comment Magnum
Magnum's picture

Are you really a pilot?  I was raised in an aviation family and spent many hours in a plane as a kid and later took lessons from my dad.  The 767s were clocked at 550 MPH at sea level and struck bullseye into not one but two 215' wide targets.  Flunkee Cesna pilots did this?  America's best Top Gun couldn't do it.  550 MPH is the key.

I know many pilots participate in the pilotsfor911truth website, and their information is indisputable.  I don't undestand why more professional pilots don't make their voice heard.  Cowards all.  Flight Termination Systems is an old technology and the most likely method used to pilot the jets at 550 MPG into perfect bullseye.  Then of course there is the most obvious surprise, WTC7. 

The auto response to that, from people like yourself, is "ah come on guys only crazy people believe conspiracy and stuff".  Give Me A Break.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 21:39 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

thank you. most pilots know this theory is insane. about as insane as NORADs inabilities that day. about as insane as the five amazingly similar "exercises" that day coordinated by Cheney and confusing as hell to the controllers. about as insane as all the area cameras being pulled, about as insane as an "uncontrolled" demolition falling into its footprint, about as insane as all debris / evidence from the ugliest terrorist attack in american history being shipped off immediately to china in violation of the law

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 11:58 | Link to Comment tahoebumsmith
tahoebumsmith's picture

Lets make it easier then that...How about we just get 2 of the tapes from the more then 50 cameras around the Pentagon and be allowed to watch them? The commission would only need about 10 seconds to make a decision if this was allowed...

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 09:51 | Link to Comment pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

Wow Chindit!!!  +1000000   A real truther!!!!  Thanks.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 05:48 | Link to Comment JimboJammer
JimboJammer's picture

Why   did  Dick  Cheney  call  Norad the  day  before 9/11 ..?     He  knew... Who  shorted  American  Airlines  Stock  the  day  before..?

lots  of  Questions...

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 04:22 | Link to Comment mt paul
mt paul's picture

911 was urban renewal...

 the beginning 

of the end..

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 03:54 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

 

This is still tin foil hat stuff to me GW.

It is easy to see how Lee Harvey Oswald, a trained Marine sniper, could get off enough shots to kill Kennedy all by himself.

It is also easy for me to see two teams of terrorists hijacking some jets pre 9/11 because...it was pre 9/11 and we let people on with guns and knives much less box cutters.

The trips down this conspiracy path smell of kids who don't want to believe that there is simple evil in this world that can do monumentally bad things without being from high levels or "within" the fold.

Tin foil hat.

"What's the frequency Kenneth?"

Please, focus on really monumentally bad things perpetrated by semi-organized internal terrorists - e.g. - the financial crisis of 2008 to the present.

 

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 04:11 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Just you keep trimming away at a few of them branches... don't bother yourself with the root of the problem.

Don't be knowin none of that thar histories back further than say... three years past. Why 9/11 was almost 10 years ago... cannot be none those criminals and traitors still around.

Hells Bells... you might just have to think bad thoughts or sumthin hard likes that. 

You want some of them Magic Bullets?  I gots lots to sells to ya... wants some?  They cheap!

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 03:31 | Link to Comment UnBearorBull
UnBearorBull's picture

Does anyone know what the NY office tower vacancy rate was in that era?

 

Did this demolition tighten up that market as a bonus?

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 02:46 | Link to Comment Scorpio69er
Scorpio69er's picture

 

What has always troubled me is this:

Clearly, there could have been no reasonable expectation on the part of the 9/11 hijackers that slamming aircraft into the upper floors of the WTC towers would reduce them to dust. Indeed, the buildings were designed to absorb such impacts. Any study of the buildings would have revealed this basic fact. Thus, the suicide pilots could not have known or even conceived that the buildings would collapse. So much for this part of the story, anyway, as a motive to explain their actions.

Imagine yourself as the second hijacker approaching the WTC: What do you see when you look out the window? Yes, a big hole and some black smoke pouring out of the other WTC, but that's it. The building is otherwise still fully intact. Indeed, you would have to entertain the belief that, as a result of attack number one, both towers would have been evacuated. So, what are you thinking? "Gee, maybe I can make a big hole in that other (very possibly empty) building"???

A few things:

1.) As noted in an article in The New York Times from December 25, 2001, entitled Experts Urging Broader Inquiry In Towers' Fall:

…some structural engineers have said that one serious mistake has already been made in the chaotic aftermath of the collapses: the decision to rapidly recycle the steel columns, beams and trusses that held up the buildings. That may have cost investigators some of their most direct physical evidence with which to try to piece together an answer.

Officials in the mayor's office declined to reply to written and oral requests for comment over a three-day period about who decided to recycle the steel and the concern that the decision might be handicapping the investigation.

http://tinyurl.com/nvz9dc

Imagine: The biggest crime scene in American history inexplicably swept clean before any real forensic analysis could be conducted!

2.) WTC-7, which was not struck by any aircraft, dropped exactly like a controlled demolition. This is the smoking gun that proves that the aircraft hitting the twin towers had nothing to do with their subsequent collapse.

3.) The Bush administration tried and failed to prevent any inquiry whatsoever into the events of that day. If you will recall, they opposed any investigation of it. That fact in and of itself should raise red flags. Then, when it became apparent that that would not work, he tried to appoint the war criminal Henry Kissinger to head the "investigation"! How much clearer could it be that he wanted to answer NO questions about it? It is also beyond argument that the 9/11 Commission did not explore certain questions and witnesses, nor were they supplied with all of the documents they themselves requested. They did not even take up the question of WTC-7. Again, the red flags fly.

 

 

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 15:33 | Link to Comment maximin thrax
maximin thrax's picture

"Clearly, there could have been no reasonable expectation on the part of the 9/11 hijackers that slamming aircraft into the upper floors of the WTC towers would reduce them to dust. Indeed, the buildings were designed to absorb such impacts. Any study of the buildings would have revealed this basic fact. Thus, the suicide pilots could not have known or even conceived that the buildings would collapse."

Um,,, Bin Laden said exactly that. He said he thought the tops would come down but was pleasantly surprised that they all came down.

So, how does one go about planning to destroy Towers #1 and #2 to provide the needed cover to demolish #7, the real target, when everyone knows for an absolute fact that flying commercial jet airliners into them won't bring them down?

Try using your own head, or you'll unwittingly let others control you.

The towers were designed to withstand the collision of a certain class of airliner. They both survived the collisions. They collapsed from the fires started by jet fuel in full tanks that spread to consume anything that would burn at the attained temperatures. The engineer's assumption was that an airplane hitting the towers would be one in the act of landing with near empty tanks, not fully-fuled for a suicide run.

The Titanic was designed to be unsinkable, remember?

And, #7 did not drop like controlled demolition. I wish people who don't know jack about controlled demo would stop asserting such nonsense. Control means just that. Any structure upon failure will fall down because of GRAVITY. Controlled demo gets it down without hitting surrounding buildings. Clearly, every building that fell on 9-11 hit other buildings, so there was no control involved.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 20:08 | Link to Comment Scorpio69er
Scorpio69er's picture

 

re: "Bin Laden said exactly that"

Let's take a look at Osama's FBI wanted poster:

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

Ooops! Someone left out 9/11!

The FBI has said: “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”

WTF???!!! Isn't finding this guy the ostensible reason that we invaded Afghanistan after 9/11?

 

Thu, 03/10/2011 - 16:37 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

amazing comebacks by your detractors

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 16:48 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

maximin thrax... a savage, ignorant and illiterate barbarian, who came to power for only 3 weeks 2 days during the decline of the Roman Empire. 

His own stupid soldiers, weary of the amount of his idiotic and moronic diatribes, put him to death in A.D. 238 by suffocating him with a shit-fouled cloth sack over his head.

maxi-trash... (as his ZH followers nicknamed him)... was famous and widely known for his defecating in a new bag first thing in the morning, and then wander around public web forums, putting his own stinking shit up into his face and inhaling deeply, and frequently, all day; while mumbling to himself ... 

"Yep. Same shit, different bag."

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 09:48 | Link to Comment robobbob
robobbob's picture

A theory presented to fit the facts

Fact: it takes significant time to wire a building for controlled demo. it takes X3 as long for 3 buildings. charges and equipment would have to be concealed as these were occupied buildings.

Theory: it was done over a period of time well in advance with knowledge of key building security and maintenance personnel.

Fact: warning was given that buildings would be coming down

Theory: secret evil cabals don't give warnings, especially if the plan is for shock and awe. it was someone who cared about casualties.

Resulting theory: The WTC buildings were prewired as part of an emergency response contingency and were brought down as part of risk mitigation. Even if the right decision, who would want to step up and take responsibility (and liability) for it?

This theory has nothing to do about who would or could have exploited this information.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 02:38 | Link to Comment JustinObodie
JustinObodie's picture

I always thought Charlie Sheen was behind the 9/11 thing.

 

 

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 04:23 | Link to Comment BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

Now he's behind Bree Olsen, sticking his jumbo up her tradesmans entrance...

its sick.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 00:55 | Link to Comment freedmon
freedmon's picture

Good work by them. 9/11 is a foundational myth for the war on terror, and it's a weak spot.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 00:52 | Link to Comment Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."
 — Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President.

911.  Who profitted the most by it?  Any other questions?

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 00:44 | Link to Comment Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

I'd bow to few people in my cynicism toward the U.S. government but half of the casual hyperbole in this thread drives me nuts. 

If you want to say that gov't is incompetent, and something that should've been stopped wasn't, I'm with you. If you want to posit super powerful and simultaneously super secretive conspiracies accomplishing earth shaking deeds with no one at all knowing, well, that's the stuff of movie thrillers but it doesn't hold up against Occam's Razor very well.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 01:54 | Link to Comment rich_wicks
rich_wicks's picture

If you want to posit super powerful and simultaneously super secretive conspiracies accomplishing earth shaking deeds with no one at all knowing, well, that's the stuff of movie thrillers

Yes, stuff of movies and of course: Operation Ajax.

That was a conspiracy theory of super powerful and simultaneously super secretive groups accomplishing earth shaking deeds with no one at all talking - until it was declassified by a freedom of information request.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

Imagine, those funny Persians were claiming that the US overthrew their government, what a bunch of crazy Mooslims!!

They made this crazy nutzo claim for 50 years, until it was proven to be correct.

Learn from freaking history don't just ignore it.

but it doesn't hold up against Occam's Razor very well.

You probably think Occam's Razor states the simplest explanation is likely to be the correct one.

It doesn't.

Occam's Razor states that the theory with the least number of assumptions that have to be made to explain a natural phenomenon is the one most likely, but not necessarily, to be the correct theory.  Of course, a theory made with 0 assumptions, isn't a theory anymore, it's a law.

Occam's Razor is the very foundation of the scientific method and it's no surprise most people don't know what it actually states, because a light bulb to them is magic.  It's much too much for them to understand the principle that is the very foundation of modern civilization.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 02:16 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

O'Scam's Razor put to Iran's throat...

Another Conspiracy Theorem*

1951:

 Mohammad Mosaddegh is democratically elected as the Prime Minister of Iran.

Mossadegh is one of those crazies who thinks that the wealth of a nation should be used for the benefit of all of its inhabitants rather than for the foreign owners of a few oil companies. 

Damn It!... can not be having any of that socialist/commonwealth shit.

In May, he nationalizes Iran's oil fields. He does a lot of other crazy and dangerous stuff like establishing unemployment insurance and workers' compensation, abolishing forced labor and funding a broad range of public infrastructure and free public, secular education.

All of this is strictly verboten of course and the CIA/Nazis hatch a conspiracy with the code name of Operation Ajax to overthrow Mossaddegh and install one of the world's most repressive and vicious dictators, the Shah of Iran who, with his notorious secret police fully trained and armed by the United States, will kidnap, torture and murder his way through the people of Iran for two decades .

Then the wimp ass ameriKlans all wail and moan and cry like a bunch of spoiled fucking babies when a few CIA/Diplomats are held hostage by the student revolutionaries for a few months. 

But that's another story

{*theorem ... a statement proven on the basis of established facts.}

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 01:09 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Physics? 

Science? 

Thermodynamics?

History?

9/11 put O'Scam's Razor to the World's Throat.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

1,400 architects and engineers demand answers... the official story of the collapse of the WTC buildings is bunk.

 

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 23:15 | Link to Comment Count Floyd
Count Floyd's picture

1400 architects and engineers.  LOL.  The fact is that almost none of them are.  Rather they are like George Costanza was an architect.

And the Twoofers wouldn't know physics, science, and thermodynamics if it bit them in the ass.  But they sure buy into retarded theories put forth by losers calling themselves scientists.

Thu, 03/10/2011 - 16:38 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

DO tell us what some of these architects have built? And while you're doing that, what have you built? What have you flown? or demolished or investigated? How many Phd dissertations? How many military and civillian air runs? How much air traffic have you controlled? How many crash sites have you examined? And do tell, how did you find the time to master so many areas?

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 15:07 | Link to Comment maximin thrax
maximin thrax's picture

You've found 1400 idiot "architects". Congrats.

I have yet to meet anyone who believes any of the towers were demolished with explosives who understands how buildings collapse.

Again, there may be something to the rumors of connections with people over here and terrorosts both over there and over here, and these need looking into. But WTC #1 and #2 failed due to airplane collisions and #7 from the large gash created when one of the big towers came down, its unusual structure having columns that shifted loads laterally instead of going down to footings (transfer beams) and large amounts of flammable liquids stored therein.

But, believe whatever you want.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 16:16 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

maximin thrax... a savage, ignorant and illiterate barbarian, who came to power for only 3 weeks 2 days during the decline of the Roman Empire. 

His own stupid soldiers, weary of the amount of his idiotic and moronic diatribes, put him to death in A.D. 238 by suffocating him with a shit-fouled cloth sack over his head.

maxi-trash... (as his ZH followers nicknamed him)... was famous and widely known for shitting in a bag first thing in the morning, and then wander around in public forums, putting it up to his face and inhaling deeply all day, mumbling to himself ... 

"Yep. Same shit, different bag."

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 16:29 | Link to Comment maximin thrax
maximin thrax's picture

Got to ya, I did?

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 16:44 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

I really appreciate having you as a new fool that can be used as my foil... another useful 9/11-Liar.

You's my Bitch now!

Welcome to the Fight Club... Enjoy your brief visit.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 00:34 | Link to Comment Haole
Haole's picture

Sucker defined.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 15:01 | Link to Comment maximin thrax
maximin thrax's picture

Yep. Same shit, different bag.

Wed, 03/09/2011 - 04:18 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

'Haole' grunts over his keyboard...

"Sucker defined."

Babel Fish Translation...

Unweaned, domestic farm animal, kept locked in a barn stall, contemplates the meaning of life.

 

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