This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Pentagon Papers Whistleblowers Call for a New 9/11 Investigation
The main players in releasing the Pentagon Papers were Daniel Ellsberg and Senator Mike Gravel.
Ellsberg
is, of course, the former military analyst and famed whistleblower who
smuggled the Pentagon Papers out of the Rand Corporation.
Senator
Gravel is the person who read the Pentagon Papers into the
Congressional Record. This act made the papers public record, so that
they could not be censored by the government.
Ellsberg and Gravel are receiving a lot of media attention right now for their support of Wikileaks.
But little attention has been paid to Ellsberg and Gravel's support for a new 9/11 investigation.
Ellsberg says that the case of a certain 9/11 whistleblower is "far more explosive than the Pentagon Papers". (Here's some of what that whistleblower says.)
He also said that the government is ordering the media to cover up her allegations about 9/11.
And
he said that some of the claims concerning government involvement in
9/11 are credible, that "very serious questions have been raised about
what they [U.S. government officials] knew beforehand and how much
involvement there might have been", that engineering 9/11 would not be
humanly or psychologically beyond the scope of those in office, and
that there's enough evidence to justify a new, "hard-hitting"
investigation into 9/11 with subpoenas and testimony taken under oath
(see this and this).
Senator Gravel has long supported a new 9/11 investigation. Gravel told the Daily Caller this week:
Individuals
in and out of government may certainly have participated with the
obviously known perpetrators of this dastardly act. Suspicions abound
over the analysis presented by government. Obviously an act that has
triggered three wars, Afghan, Iraqi and the continuing War on Terror,
should be extensively investigated which was not done and which the
government avoids addressing.
Other high-level whistleblowers have alleged a cover-up as well.
For example, Air Force Colonel and key Pentagon official Karen Kwiatkowski - who blew the whistle on the Bush administration's efforts to concoct false intelligence about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction - wrote (page 26):
I
have been told by reporters that they will not report their own
insights or contrary evaluations of the official 9/11 story, because to
question the government story about 9/11 is to question the very
foundations of our entire modern belief system regarding our government,
our country, and our way of life. To be charged with questioning these
foundations is far more serious than being labeled a disgruntled
conspiracy nut or anti-government traitor, or even being sidelined or
marginalized within an academic, government service, or literary career.
To question the official 9/11 story is simply and fundamentally
revolutionary. In this way, of course, questioning the official story is
also simply and fundamentally American.
Indeed, Ellsberg and Gravel join a long list of high-level former officials in the government and intelligence services - including many well-known whistleblowers - who have publicly demanded a new investigation.
And see this.
»
- advertisements -
The three-segment film is just called "Zeitgeist". "Zeitgeist Addendum" deals more with the money system, 'economic hit men', and some futuristic philosophy.
I'm a very common sense sort and although I know how "seeing" something can look like one thing when its in fact another. However, I have watched the planes hit the World Trade Center many times and those planes have something "Extra" underneath near the wings. Take a look at them again. Also, when building #7 went down, it imploded just like a building being blowup under demolition and this was confirmed by a demolition expert. The Pentagon did NOT look like a huge plane had hit it at all! The wall where the plane hit didn't even fall until later. It looked much more like an explosive device hit it.... although I get there are several witnesses that saw the plane approach (of which the witnessed approach DOES NOT correspond to the gov report). Also, the wreckage does not look like a large airplane hit the building at all! Also, why was all the film in the area confiscated and NOT released to the public??? I just have a LOT of unanswered questions and I woundn't put anything past the guys in power! I've even seen a picture of where he plane crashed in the field, before the plane crashed and the ditch that was suppossedly dug from the impact of the plane was already there and had been there for YEARS! Just too many questions for me.
"although I get there are several witnesses that saw the plane approach"
There were also many innocent passengers on board that saw the Pentagon approach as well.
You guys are going to have to get past the fact that all these planes carried passengers...who made phone calls to the ground...saying what was transpiring.
"They" can pull this off with cameras rolling but "they" can't hide their idiotic incompetence & corruption in other matters both large and small?
Carry on.
SeeYa
Trouble is that the FBI confiscated all that camera footage about 3 seconds after the event. And as for those phone calls ... the technology didn't even exist to call from teh air in 2001.
Good try, though.
Explain it to the answering machines some of them contacted...not me.
Do the words "Let's Roll" mean anything to you?
Whatever.
It's moonbattery.
Nmewn, It's clear you haven't looked into 9/11 with any depth from all your comments. You throw out the cell phones calls as evidence. Let's pretend the calls are legit as you say. So what does that prove. It proves that the callers saw arab hijackers on the plane. Nothing more, nothing less. There may very well have been hijackers on the planes, that is irrelevant to the larger discussion of was 9/11 an inside job and/or aided from the inside.
The big pieces to look at are the Pentagon, WTC 7, the air defense response, NORAD/FAA lying per the 9/11 comission, lack of discussion of WTC7 in 9/11 commission (NIST came up with an easily disprovable claim about WTC7 YEARS later), the lack of following the money trail in the 9/11 comission and of course the NUMEROUS 9/11 whistleblowers particularly in the intelligence community who were stymied, gagged, threatened and otherwise ignored.
Your cellphone call lynch pin doesn't mean anything other than what I said. Nor does it explain away the above.
Well...maybe cooler heads have prevailed ;-)
"Nmewn, It's clear you haven't looked into 9/11 with any depth from all your comments."
As I said...I don't support or frequent sites that traffic in human misery. Just because a claim is made does not make it valid. People have been standing on street corners saying the end is near for hundreds of years. Does anyone stop to think maybe "near" is a relative term?
"You throw out the cell phones calls as evidence."
I had a reason to. GW knows why...and he wisely didn't bite.
The air to ground communications were first explained to me, by Truther's, saying they were the result of voice imitating technology developed by Mossad. When I asked how they could know who's voice to imitate and have saved down to a hard drive to manipulate (because they could never know who would be on those flights so far into the then future or if they would in fact make a call) the discussion of this angle of conspiracy stopped.
As I said...they moved on to another point.
I-dog and myself went down the "shaped charges" rabbit hole together.
He stating...paraphrasing here..."first responders were greeted by explosions in the lobby". Well, I asked, what union steward in their right mind would allow the emergency crews to proceed up the stairwells after that? He became angry and said they were shaped charges (that is cutting charges), not anti-personnel explosives designed to kill immediately...which begs the question again...what union steward in their right mind sends the crews forward...past visibly damaged support pillars?
"Let's pretend the calls are legit as you say. So what does that prove. It proves that the callers saw arab hijackers on the plane. Nothing more, nothing less. There may very well have been hijackers on the planes, that is irrelevant to the larger discussion of was 9/11 an inside job and/or aided from the inside."
Well to me...it brings up what I have said in the past...Atta and his band would have been deeply suspicious of an invitation from the government or through any proxy to do something like this. Think about it. Here is a man who hates the US...hates Israel...hates the entire western world in general...but yet he would risk imprisonment to work with them to achieve this plan that was not even crafted by him?
I can't twist my brain through the mental calisthenics required to allow that make sense to me on any level.
We know the hijackers were Arab's...we know they killed & wounded people when they took over the flights...we know Beamer and some passengers found out from communicating with the ground what was going on and decided to take back the plane...we heard the stuggle in that cockpit for control of that plane (the pilot left the mike on)...we now know this will never be attempted again by hijackers because everyone on board knows they will die anyways (so they will die fighting now, it hasn't been tried again).
Which makes the TSA scanning for "weapons" bullshit even more farcical.
We know the Trade Centers were a target going back to 1993 with six dead and over a thousand wounded with a truck bomb...and we know it was jihadists that did that bombing (Yousef & others, financed by KSM...Yousef's uncle).
Are there questions about WTC7 in my mind? Yes. NORAD? Yes.
But no one was going to give the military an order to shoot down an American passenger plane that morning either, not right away anyhow, not within that compressed time span.
So, like I said...continue on with questions. But be prepared to defend premises and defending premises successfully will win the day for you guys.
I stood in the break room that morning watching on TV...I said out loud there is going to be a lot of dead Arabs for this...one of the managers looked at me quizzically...then the second plane came in...then it dawned on her...all I could say was you cocksuckers and walked out.
let's roll guy was talking on one of those phones in the plane seats they had back then, he actually was talking to the operator that anwsered when he picked up phone....not the same as a personal cell phone. After 911 I tried to turn on my cell phone on the plane varioius times of flights all over east coast in many many many flights, never ONCE got any bars, any service
A plane fuselage is a pretty effective Faraday cage.
*
Is that true? Forgive me, not really science oriented. Thanks, it gives me something new to research/learn.
Cell phones from mid-air..not a chance.
And the phone in the back of the seat? oh, the one you need to enter credit card info for? Sounds plausible....
"Lets Roll" was created by the same people that came up with "Yes We Can"
Talented creative folks, that we do have in this country
+1000
We've been [Edward] Bernays'd!
Every time I fly (which is often) I try to use my mobile. I've never been able to. Not with my iphone or my blackberry or my blackjack. It's never been possible.
I always wondered about that cell phone calls element of the plot, but have never heard it mentioned. Do you by any chance have a link to a fortifying discussion of that?
Try this, Bob:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO408B.html
I believe David Ray Griffin has written about them (and given interviews), too, in one of his dozen or so books tearing apart John Ashcroft's fairy tale.
The risk of pandering is omnipresent, Geo.
although i partially agree with ellsberg, he has the unfortunate distinction of being involved in a hoax to discredit and poltically assassinate nixon....that's a long story i won't go into....
however, what is disturbing is the comment from the bubble headed bleach blond who comes on at 5 to tell you about about a mass murder with a gleam in her eye, "to question the very foundations of our entire modern belief system regarding our government, our country, and our way of life."
the basic problem with this comment is that it is trogladytic anti-scientificism...if we had this attitude we would all own at least two slaves and call blacks niggers....
that comment from the cia shill is yet another damnation of the educational system in this country and i why i abhor and loathe it....americans are taught to be uncritical slaves and devotees of the imperial government....well because power is always correct....
anyone with an iq higher than an artichoke can see that the usa government - perhaps with mossad help - destroyed the wtc. the military industrial complex destroyed all three buildings in a controlled demolition with nano-thermite. they carted the metal off to china in a new york second to be melted in order to destroy the forensic evidence. it's just like what you see on forensic files where a brighter than average criminal misleads investigators for a period of time until the weight of the evidence collapses on the lies like wtc-7 did on nyc.
the bush crime syndicate masterminded it. the rockefellers knew about 1-2 years in advance according to aaron russo.
please people -you are ruled by the beast of revelation and yet you want to worship it as the immaculate perpetual virgin even as it fucks your mother in your living room with re-runs of howdy doody running in the back ground to make it all seem good...
we aren't in kansas any more and our leaders are not ozzie and harriet nelson.
btw, the City of Mpls is complaining about still having to store the metal left over from the I35 bridge collapse...its clogging up a riverside park area, but the Feds wouldn't let them destroy evidence, even tho the reasons for the bridge failure and extensive sampling and studying of the steel has been done, much much much more than 911 analysis...and yet steel still can't be moved...this is a normal conservative, reasonable approach to a potential crime scene (even tho accident, we still want to know who screwed up, was it negligent), contrast to 911...no one would have minded donating land to store the debris...what was the hurry?
The educational system was devised more to create disciplined little capitalist worker bees who never question an economic system rooted in theft and pillage.
Joel Spring has written book after book describing this process.
http://www.activistpost.com/2010/12/breaking-wikileaks-being-used-to.htm...
wikileaks and the patriot act. legislation to control the internet coming up, due to wikileaks situation. damn hegelian situation if I ever saw one. Walked right into that one for sure.
What sort of evidence are you looking for? Seeing as all the 'evidence' produced in the official fairy tale is absurd and nonsensical, it's hardly difficult to counter the John Ashcroft line we were spoon-fed like invalids at the time.
Additionally, Edmonds has been gagged for years and years, so it's a cute little trick to assert that there's no evidence while simultaneously threatening those who posses it with arrest and persecution. Lynne Stewart is in jail today for unmasking the alCIAda fraud, in court, years before 911.
Where is the evidence?
most of it shipped to china so they can make little toys out of the steel so your kids can chew on it.
Idiot -go do your homework, you lazy fool.
Armando Javier Finkelstein of the Boise Finkelsteins:
Right in front of your hooked nose!
Just open those myopic eyes!
Ever heard of a little thing called google?
Mixing in racist remarks doesn't strengthen a push for 9/11 truth.
Are you another jew hating Zero-hedger? Does ZH have any problem with this?
No problem with an investigation here.
I would hope someone has some physical evidence or at least one Deep Throat at the end of it or a viable answer for Atta & Co. being at the controls of the planes.
You are waiting for someone to tell you what to think?
Do your own investigation!
"You are waiting for someone to tell you what to think?"
No Petey...George is.
"Do your own investigation!"
I don't support parasitic little cottage industry's that spring up around infamous events...my own eyes, Todd Beamer and the islamics themselves told me what I know.
The islamics did try the same building before with a truck bomb you know.
The human mind is a funny thing. Given over easily to conspiracy theory when all available cross checked evidence says something else.
As others have said...George W Bush was an accomplice to the "crime" until one has to acknowledge that position gives Bush more intellectual gravitas than the meme intends...so that position is discarded...he becomes a bumbling simpleton again and the promoter moves on to the next point.
It is pointed out that air to ground communications (both official & unofficial) with the planes did in fact happen, stating who exactly was doing it (terrorists)...a promoter of the conspiracy responds it is impossible...it is shown that Beamer (among others) did in fact communicate with the ground...the promoter gives up, & moves on to the next point.
And so on.
GW (who I personally like) is given to these fantastical stories, which is all fine and good...but at some point one has to recognize that the GoM sea bed did not crack open exposing magma to cool water resulting in a massive earth splitting explosion...LOL...the SE portion of the US did not have mass evacuations (as the now absent Gordon Gekko advocated for), the sea currents do not allow for fish kills in the NE section of the country because of oil spills in the gulf and so on.
So as you conduct your next on-line investigation keep in mind just because someone offers evidence running contrary to your theme they should not to be called a shill, a joo, stupid, CIA plant...that is, demonized to the point they (the innocent) become part of a cover up in your mind.
Point being, again, I don't traffic in human misery.
Good luck to you all.
The evidence is overwhelming, the idea is so crazy that no one believes it. Human nature being used against the population.
Just look at the airline/financial puts - never before seen volumes leading up to 9/11
I'm a man of science, just speak to any structural engineer, steel does not melt at the t with jet fuel fire temperatures. Never have before 9/11 and haven't since
Google Operation Northwoods, what happened on 9/11 was an old idea
It will happen again ... soon
Steel doesn;t have to melt, just reach it's yeild point.
True... yet it did melt...
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fc3caaee374b.jpg
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7ebf150a2dd1.jpg
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e0d6487e6238.jpg
And Then what? Does it COMPLETELY lose ALL integrity? No! It would BEND -NOT BREAK OR SHEAR (look at the obvious torch jobs on the steel). This/your point fails when collapse speed is taken into consideration- the "pancake theory" falls, well, flat on its face!
Thanks for playing!
The floor plans are on the ae911truth site. The central core columns were many and huge (over 100, I seem to recall and 40 some inches by 16 box columns welded from 4 inch thk plate). If the upper floors did pancake down, I cannot conceive why the bulk of the central columns would not have been left standing at least some time after the collapse. Also, read about thermite welding....it is over 100 years old and capable of intense temperatures.....some hi tech nano thermite is not req'd....100 year old German thermite technology could have done the trick.
that is my point, if trusses yielded on weakened floors due to fire, then maybe pancaking collapse could have happened, but sure it would have be asymmetric, progressive failure, one thing going and bring down the next, all this occuring outside the core columns...not that the failing outer trusses couldn't effect the inner columns, but it would not happen simultanous to the trusses. To me the tell is how well the buildings held up prior to complete, orderly collapse, the plane taking out a bunch of trusses on several floors did little, why would yieldind of more trusses in area suddenly create such perfect collapses.
Yup, you are correct, BUT that cannot happen in a jet fuel fire except very rarely with focused chimney effects, not across an entire building. So, though highly unlikely, maybe one or two beams could melt in such circumstances, on or above the floors involved and in one place. How does that explain beams cut into equal sized pieces most of the way down the structure, such that the beams just fit on the flat beds used to cart them away?
That was the magical work of the 9-11 Fairy. All you have to do is believe!
Then when reaching that "yield point" it turns millions of tons of reinforced concrete into a fine dust and also throws multi-tonne steel beams all cut at 30' lengths hundreds of feet into the air away from the buildings!
Okey Dokey!
{*You took "special class" Physics in high school?}
I'm speaking about the twin towers; they had no intenal beams in order to maximaize free space. It was innovative at the time.
I don't know anything about Building 7.
And yes it was a special physics class in HS, I was doing it for college credits.
Female reporter for the BBC reported that World Trade Center Seven had collapsed several minutes before it actually did.
...and that happens all the time too because reporters are psychic. See, another perfectly reasonable explanation. Why is everybody so hard-headed?
ok, please stop writing, you are looking foolish.
No internal beams? right, I'm not even going to help you, since you are an ME ... come back when you have done your homework.
Quite right, I should have written columns. Been a while since I've done any structural stuff. Any other points?
Actually, yes there are other points:
Even though I don't agree with your fire premise (mainly because of the heavy fireproofing of buildings like this) I will go along and grant you that assumption just for fun.
So assuming the steel passed the yield point into the plastic zone and started deforming leading to a buckling of certain columns and beams, why did the whole building collapse? Keep in mind the planes hit at the very top of the towers so the dead load, even with the plane included, is the smallest. If there was a buckling/failure then it would have led to a disorderly collapse of only those floors held up by the weakened steel. That's it. Everything below those floors should have been fine, let alone pulverized and collapsing into its footprint.
All of the design considerations in structural engineering use a safety factor of at least 2.5 to 1. And that's done for simple low rise structures. So imagine what safety factor must have been used for a property whose value is in the billions...
You should remember that from your ME
imagine ((ºJº)) ... be happy
leave him, this is the exact mentality they need to keep the show going ... I bet he's long everything
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Steel's yield point is about 1000f higher than the heat generated by a kerosene fire ... no matter how long it burns for. Do you just write things or do you have any scientific/chemical info. Look into the thermodynamics then come drop your 2c
I'm an ME by training. I use propane and butane (more available in Europe) to anneal steel quite often. I could use kero, all I'd need to do is pressurize it, as in a blow torch.
BTW, it used to be pretty windy on top of those towers, asshole.