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Out of silver, bitchez.
We will buy anything you have for 3 over spot, bitchez.
Silver @ 35.85
APMEX selling ASEs for $43. WTF
$42 here, yuk. NTR bars arent too terribly priced though.
It's called supply and demand. The very first thing they teach you at business school. We do not need slick New York con men in $2000 suits telling us what silver should sell for. Let them play their paper games with each other. Let them fuck each other over as much as they want. we are the physical silver market and the price here is uncoupling from Comex spot price. It's happening all over the market right now!!! In two to three weeks there will be a physical silver price and a paper spot price for con artists. Take your pick.
I'm down to my last silver dollar...
I love zero hedge, but I have to say. I am Canadian, and buy my silver from scotiamocatta. All the things in that picture have been sold out for a long time, and before the latest part of the big surge.
They still have Candian Maples, which is the only thing I buy, these other ones sold out quick because they have a smaller margin over spot (but are also lower quality products).
These being sold out has nothing to do with their invetory changes, COMEX, or the latest crash, and a lot more to do with the strong interest in silver since Jan/Feb.
They have been routinely sold out of everything small sized, except maples, which have been in stock since february, including currently
But the 1 kgs were in stock when I bought 2 pounds of maples, friday at 9am. (cause i considered buying one instead). So that is new :)
Now I went on to check :D, the 5oz scotiabank garbo-coin is back in stock, and of course, they have never run out of maples yet. The other smalls have been sold out for at least a month. The 1kgs sold out friday, sometime after i purchased before leaving for work. (hit the current bottom almost to the minute, #winning, if it dips again, might go back for some more)
These are simply PREMIUMS that these folks are trying to get you to pay.
LOOK around,when the mkt closed yesterday I could get them under $40.00.(won't be the case Mon, as the prices of Slvr will be going right back up, as they are already doing).There's your Supply & Demand.
So what does that tell you.
IF your willing to pay Excessive Prems, then they will gladly take your FRN's.
LOOK AROUND,every $2-$4.00 you save, is more metals for you.And a lower cost basis.
Two tier pricing - one the "manipulated market price", the other the "free market price". If you want the real stuff you have to settle for free market price. LOL! It's amazing to see how the free market ALWAYS finds it's place. They can't stop the free market.
As predicted. Lower prices will bring the shortages, not higher ones. And increases the likelihood physical holders will hold tight at the previous highs.
Agreed. That's why price-and-wage controls, for example, never truly work.
After all, how many of us are buying **more** physical now at $35 than when it was at $49 a week ago? I was hesitant back then, but now I'm loadin' up. Proves 66Sexy's theory above.
Let the Crimex celebrate their touchdown for now, but buy physical and hold. Remember that when the fiat goes splat (I expect a severe event by 2013, IMHO), it won't be how much fiat you hold, but how many ounces.
I'm not a big institutional buyer (I'm just a regular Joe), but I'm buyin' all the same!
Plenty of silver at APMEX $1.79 over spot and up http://www.apmex.com/Category/520/Silver_Rounds_Secondary_Market__New.aspx
You guys aren't helping things with this BS, and that includes Durden.
>$3.50 over spot = 10% premium the ad is "as low as" meaning if you buy in bulk; also the minted coins run much higher than rounds.
Yup, I hate the 4 tiered crap.
But, their company, and they seem to do well.
So, you think that the market should be controlled by New York crooks in fancy suits? Get a grip man. If the physical market makes its own price, where do you think that price is gonna be, lower than spot? LMAO
In the market place, price is determined by supply and demand. NOT by con men who manipulate the market, and own the regulators. We are so many and create so much demand, there is absolutely nothing they can do. This last whack job is backfiring on them. As a result of what they have done this past week, they will completely lose control of the physical market. Comex spot price will be a joke.
Trans, you talking to me?.
I wish folks here would have the courtesy of putting the initals, or the first name at the top of their responses to posts.
Otherwise HOW does one tell, or respond in a logical manner.
Drives me batty.
IF you were responding to me, NO.
They are free to set whatever premiums they wish, evidently there are plenty of suckers and fools that will pay double.
More power to em', the Capitalistic system at work.
Hi, I'm fairly new here. I guess you're right, I need to say who I'm talking to. What seems to happen is that a lot of other posters fill in the threads and then you can't tell who the post was directed at, sorry
Transformer, that is why I ALWAYS quote the person to whom I am responding (you know, using that little blue <"> icon in the tool bar of every comment box) --- not just for clarity of discussion, but because sometimes the original quote, if from a particularly reviled, disingenuous or dishonest poster, may be junked right into oblivion, clouding subsequent non-quoted responses even further. I wish everyone here would quote others when responding to them.
Please explain what you mean by "BS". If you're only looking at PMs as a market-traded commodity to get more FRNs, then all the best to you, because if you're really good at it, you might certainly get more FRNs for your trouble. But at some point, the fiat house of cards will come down.
Fiat is obviously useful in everyday life, but its value diminishes every day (as we all know). Having some PM will not save one from all ills, and we don't purport to say that here on ZH, but it's vastly superior to fiat and will be convertable in any economy.
So....once again...explain what the "BS" is.
Again, I admit I don't know as much about the silver market as most investors here, but I do have a few comments and questions.
Why is there so much focus on the "paper" price of silver as it goes up, but when silver goes down, suddenly the "paper" price becomes meaningless? It kinda sounds like people lying to themselves or being willfully ignorant.
If the great fiat apocalypse happens soon, and silver is agreed upon by the plutocrats and sheeple to become the next currency, I can understand why today's fiat price doesn't matter.
Yet, if the fiat apocalypse doesn't happen soon (which I'm inclined to believe it won't), then I don't understand why the downside "paper" price movements are meaningless. The entire world is a "paper" economy - everything in commerce is measured and resolved with "paper." And while its fun to idealize a retro-world where precious metals are mediums of exchange, it simply isn't reality. Goods and services are still exchanged for paper, everywhere.
So if it's not a medium of exchange, is it a storage of wealth? Yes, indeed it is. But is it better than many other options? Maybe, but not really. I could pick the biggest "sheeple" stock on Earth - Apple - and it's been a better storage of wealth than silver in the past 2 years, and more broadly, this past decade.
I guess that's a long-winded attempt to say that I don't understand all the silver worshipping. As a storage of wealth, silver is just one option among many, and after the slaughter it encountered this week, it doesn't necessarily seem like a standout, nor worthy of worship status. It's just as vulnerable to manipulation and bullshit (on the upside and downside) as anything else.
In your mind, the value of silver may be supernatural and transcend various fiat measuring sticks, but to the rest the world, silver only functions within the sphere of paper denominations.
Either you can attempt to function and invest in the real world (as unfair as it is), or you can drift off into the goofy land of cults and conspiracies and carnival-barkers.
What does "price" mean if it doesn't mean you can acquire something for that amount of money?
What does "value" mean?
texasmudslinger, I thought you were supposed to be a Christian, yet you used the word 'bullshit' in your post.
Now trolls claim to be Christian to lend credibility to their troll, shill propaganda?
Jon Nadler would be proud
There are Christians who follow James 3:10 ("...out of the same mouth comes praise and cursing...this should not be..."), and there are others such as Dog the Bounty Hunter (of TV fame) who openly claim to follow Christ but constantly use foul and demeaning language. That second group believes that Jesus has saved them from all their sins - both past and future - so they can therefore get away with anything they want.
Those who are true believers generally keep their mouths shut and serve ... otherwise carnival
I'll take a stab at it since you are a fellow Texan and you are been courteous in your questions. The reason that the paper price is critical when is going up but not when is going down is because the paper price going up drives the physical price going up. But, the paper price going down, although initially drives the physical price down, it also dries up the available supply driving premiums for the available physical back up.
So, as a practical example. When the paper price was at 46 the physical price went up to 46 (and a small premium). Now that the paper price is back down to 35, the suppliers are running out of deliverable silver. This causes the dealers to increase the premiums to reduce the demand. So you see the disconnect. If the lower paper price was truly dictated the by a lack buyers, the dealers would not be running out of physical silver now. But because is all paper games, all it accomplishes is spooking the paper holders and making it harder for the physical holders to BTFD.
To be honest, I enjoy the paper games. It lets me get more shinny for my paper tokens.
Willing to bet the premiums normalize within the next 30 days to the extent they have widened materially. Tulving has Maple Leafs at $2.69 over spot -- not sure, but I think it usually is $2.29 or something. Regardless, don't think the wider premiums have compensated for hardly any of the spot price decline from $50 to $38.
But I am with you - my paper silver profits (both long and short) have paid for all of my physical silver holdings -- so I own a fair amount of physical silver at no effective cost.
Silver euphoria for 1000 alex.
When the price is up all the physical bugs are excited because their belief in the failure of fiat is being validated and their wealth is being preserved.
When the paper price goes down they are glad they have physical and not paper. peeks under the matress " phew still there".
Your logic is on point. Most on this site have a blinding bias and certainty that the only appropriate investment is physical precious metals -- no matter your investment / trading time line or objective. And you may only be long PMs at all times - thou shall never short PMs. Any other investments that may have made you money are illegitimate, only result from market distortions / malfunctions (conspiracies abound) and you are deluded if you count those fiat "profits."
I own my share of physical precious metals, and made very good money long paper silver during the ten days up until Easter Monday morning. But I have never made so much in any year on one investment as I have the last ten days shorting paper silver -- wow.
Many on this site seem to make no distinction of trading for the short run (1-180 days) and making multi-year investments. Presumably because they have bet all they have that the apocalypse is next week.
Agreed. Few ever notice the black swan
Commodities markets appear uniform when all you look at is the charts. Contracts for commodities are purchased at exchange prices, so it seems reasonable that the to-the-minute price would correspond to the actual value of the commodity. What you must understand, and you need this at the level of reflex, is that the market value of a commodity is not the immediate value. Buyers who require immediate settlement and delivery will pay a different price than the market spot. The primary determinant of that difference is how well the physical market is coupled to the futures, or paper market. The silver market, for instance, is decoupling from the paper market, so while the prices for silver contracts are falling, the prices for physical silver have changed little in the past week. When the paper market is completely decoupled from the physical market, the paper market will simply disappear, as it will have no value.
If this seems unlikely to you, consider a silver contract and a Federal Reserve Note. A silver contract, purchased at one price during a market day, promises to deliver 5,000oz of silver to the bearer upon settlement. A silver contract has a goal, a terminus, an exchange of physical silver for currency. The Federal Reserve Note on the other hand is semiotic device, whose value is measured in the words, "Backed by the Full Faith and Credit of the United States Government". These semiotic devices are accepted as settlement by employees for work performed, by merchants in exchange for goods, and by traders for settlement of contracts. If a merchant ceased accepting them in exchange, if a trader refused them for settlement, they would lose value to the bearer, because they have no inherent value. Likewise, when silver contracts fail to deliver silver, or the owners of silver lose money on futures and only execute immediate settlements, the futures market crumbles. A silver contract has inherent value so long as the bearer can trust that the counter-party will deliver physical silver. If they cannot deilver, it's just a piece of paper with no more inherent value than a Federal Reserve Note.
The worship of silver you seem to deride is fully justified. Since the FRN has no inherent value, only functioning as a semiotic device, and the bulk of international settlements occur in Federal Reserve Notes, persons educated about this are conventionally frightened of investing their wealth entirely in intangibles that are valued only in FRNs. The only ways to measure the value of the FRN are to view the ledgers of the issuing bank, and to read the exchanges of FRNs with other fiat currencies, since again, the FRN has no inherent value. While the books of the Federal Reserve are not open to mere mortals, we have a dim notion of the magnitude of debt that they and the United States Treasury have generated in the form of the Daily Treasury Statement, http://www.fms.treas.gov/dts/index.html, and as of 05 May 2011, the total public debt subject to the debt limit (Table III-c) is $14,269,975,000,000. This should cause cardiac fibrilation and explosive defecation to anyone with significant weath denominated only in FRNs. Yet the bulk of investors treat this absurdity as normal, if not necessary to market function. It does not occur to most investors, or the public for that matter, that bearers of FRNs are gambling that the semiotic game being played where the pretense is that the FRN has actual inherent value will not end suddenly, with a mass epiphany that the "Full Faith and Credit of the United States Government" is not a rational place to store wealth.
Silver, like gold, has inherent value. It has had aesthetic value for age. The modern industrial and commercial applications for silver grow daily. So one one hand it is a commodity for consumption. On the other, it is a store of value, and has been used from antiquity until the late 20th century as a medium of exchange. Silver bullion filled that role very well because of some important characteristics. Silver is durable, in the sense that silver bullion will not undergo physical or chemical changes in conventional usage. Silver is portable; land has inherent value too, but is not portable, lending land to be called a solid asset, and bullion a more liquid one. Silver is fungible, meaning that it is well suited for substitution with other quantities of a different commodity. Silver cannot be counterfeited; a government cannot counterfeit silver bullion as they can a fiat currency, they would have to resort to literal debasement as the Romans had done. A free market will reject a debased metal currency out of hand, or revalue it to reflect its' actual metal content.
To rejoin your comment, the volatility of the paper price of silver is important to a physical silver investor when the paper and physical markets are well coupled, and the physical investor can take on some risk and buy contracts for future delivery instead of settling immediately. When the markets become decoupled, the paper market can become irrelevant. The fundamentals of silver are not dependent on the paper market itself, but the paper market can influence the production and consumption rates of silver through corrections. In a truly free market, the exchanges would stabilize would help to flatten volatility in prices and stabilize production rates. In the interventionist market we operate in, the exchanges tend to serve at the pleasure of large investing institutions and central banks, who are completely vested in the idea and practice of semiotic fiat currencies rather than a currency with inherent value. The FRN is an actual confidence game, whereby its' value is in direct proportion to the confidence that bearers, or those looking to be bearers, have in the "Full Faith and Credit of the United States Government." Silver, along with gold and other physical commodities, is a place to store wealth. That silver can be valued in FRNs is irrelevant, as silver has inherent value. That anyone would accept FRNs in exchange for silver should be regarded as nothing short of a miraculous leap forward in neuroscience, exchanging an object with actual inherent value for another with no inherent value.
Your argument of AAPL being a better store of weath than silver requires some testing. Your challenge is to find an AAPL shareholder who is willing to denominate their shares in terms of a commodity. In other words, this investor needs to declare their shares to be fungible, and determine what they would exchange them for. I don't expect success, because Apple does not pay dividends. Looking at Apple's revenue and earnings per share, http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/revenueepssummary.aspx?symbol=AAPL&selected=AAPL, I see the traded value of the shares going up, I see significant increases in EPS, but year after year of zero dividends. Anyone who is not a major shareholder is not holding a fungible asset. It generates no returns. The only recourse to a shareholder who wants to profit from their shares in AAPL is to sell some or all, otherwise the value is entirely notional. When the stock exchanges will accept commodities for settlement of trades (or commodity backed currencies), stocks will normalize and can then be considered fungible and true stores of value.
Investing in real commodities is a version of Pascal's Wager: the physical commodity investor has nothing to lose and everything to gain; at the end of the exchange, the investor has acquired a real asset and disposed of a notional one. That the real asset can be denominated in terms of the notional or semiotic one is irrelevant as the commodity has inherent value.
I have been working under the assumption that you aren't trolling. If you are, I enjoyed typing this anyway. Apologies to the market pros reading this; any errors in terminology or concepts are due to my embryonic stage of investment experience.
Holy Bob Saget!
That was a very well written, very informative and generally an outstanding response, which I did not expect!
Give me some time to let your post sink in while I smoke this cigar and drink my Spaten.
If I can't put together an honorable response tonight, I fully concede you won.
Nice try troll. You've been outed. And yes there are some Christians on this board, and we knew you were a phony one from the very beginning. Try again Spock...
Silver For The People
Sorry about the delayed response.
Of all the things I'd like to comment on, I'd like to single out a particular sentence of yours, which I think bears the most interesting conflicts:
A silver contract has inherent value so long as the bearer can trust that the counter-party will deliver physical silver. If they cannot deilver, it's just a piece of paper with no more inherent value than a Federal Reserve Note.
And therein lies the truth! If there has been a single, prevailing (fictional!) theme during this most recent parabolic run in silver, it has been an assertion that the Comex might default on its ability to deliver physical silver. We heard it from everywhere - all the silver bugs, blogs, and even the largest players in the market like Sprott. Supposedly, there was NO silver, or at least not enough right around the time Sprott was launching his ETF (how convenient!). Returning to your comment, if there truly was a fear that the Comex would default, why were contracts bid so high in the first place? You claim that paper contracts will move inversely to physical if the contracts can't be honored, yet that's not what happened in the past nine months when the fear of Comex default was being spread by carnival barkers everywhere. If the fear of Comex default was real, then the promissory notes representing silver were as semiotic as a FRN, yet that potentially worthless contract was simultaneously being bid to the moon. Thus, it begs the question: was the fear of Comex default a fear-mongering sham? Please add some clarity to this if you can because the rumors of Comex default clearly didn't match the stratospheric bid on its paper promissory notes.
If all this noise about paper versus physical were true, it should have played out differently on the way to $50. The fact is, though, paper prices and physical prices moved in virtual lockstep with one another even through the deep fictional fog of Comex default being spewed by all the silver pumpers. Shouldn't the opposite have happened? Shouldn't paper prices have drifted toward zero if the Comex was truly about to default? I think your comment referenced above has more truth than the silver bugs would like to know.
You place no faith in semiotic instruments. I do (to a point). And so does the rest of the world, even those people buying silver through the Comex or those people exchanging ~$4T worth of foreign currencies each day. While your argument against semiotic financial instruments is a sensible one, it is too often taken to maniacal extremes and looses all reality. You have two choices: you can plan for the apocalypse or you can focus on your retirement. I focus on the latter. And I spend a reasonable amount of time hedging myself against a dollar which, I acknowledge, will grind lower over time. But I stop short of taking that leap into the land of gloom/doom, apocalypse and conspiracy. Even though the FRN is not backed by gold/silver, it is ultimately backed by the American military and the productive capacity of the American economy. Say what you want about the American economy, but for all of its faults, it remains the most vibrant and resilient in the world. $14T in debt is alarming, but it's not a death sentence for the same reason that an American worker who makes $75K/year is not bankrupt even though he owes $300K on his house.
But let's return to the original topic at hand: paper versus physical in the silver market, and distinguishing fact from fiction. Why were Comex promissory notes being bid to the moon if the threat of Comex default was real? And what does this say about the supposed distinction between paper and physical? If the distinction between paper and physical is truly real, and this week's blowup in the market was just a "paper" phenomenon, would I be able to sell my physical today for anywhere near the physical price 7 days ago? 4 days ago? Would someone pay me over $40/oz?
And with regard to the supposed physical shortage and Sprott's supposed inability to get enough physical for his ETF, did he purposely ladder his buying of silver futures in a deliberate and delayed way, so that he could claim it took several weeks to get delivery, even though that is exactly how delivery on a futures contract works? Just curious, because I really don't know, and it appears he was just creating hysteria for those narrowly focused on paper versus physical.
Thanks in advance for a meaningful discussion....
It is certainly interesting to note how you entered this forum less than two weeks ago claiming to be a rank newcomer to silver, and demonstrating a less-than-sophisticated demeanor and knowledge of the silver market, only to end up posting such an erudite and highly detailed comment as this one in such short order. I mean WOW, that learning curve of yours has been even much more vastly steeper than silver's recent parabolic rise!
I see I'm not the only one that noticed :) He's a caricature on several levels...and not a very good one.
Hahahaha.........."I'm merely trying to free your mind Neo" *Morpheus
Thanks for your time and energies putting that together rather nicely....much appreciated!
Paging US Uncut...are you out there lurking somewhere?
Please return and read nomadhotel's post.
Guess I do not buy the premise that "prices for physical silver have changed little in the past week" and that there has been a major decoupling in paper and physical silver. If that is the case, I am looking to sell some at $50 today.
EBay or the little dealer down the street is not the appropriate physical pricing source. A respected dealer of size (like Tulving) is selling physical silver at spot + a premium that is little changed over the past months. Paper silver is tracking spot prices fairly consistently.
Very well put, thanks for the effort.
"the total public debt subject to the debt limit (Table III-c) is $14,269,975,000,000. This should cause cardiac fibrilation and explosive defecation to anyone with significant wealth denominated only in FRNs."
It sure did for Nelson Bunker Hunt. He was right and had a good plan for preserving wealth and arbing a reconciliation. The system, however would not stand for it.
I know how the system is trying to react to a Hunt brothers redux, but I wonder how it will work out now that the reconciliation is being conducted by a minority of the populace rather than an off-beat conservative thinking billionaire.
Maybe I am a bit cynical, but I see villification in the offing.
I sure see what's happening now as having multiple parallels and similarities to what happened in 1980 with Bunker Hunt. He decided to corner the physical silver market because of inflation fears, and proceded to amass well over 100 million ounces of physical silver stored at various locations around the world, all of it free and clear. He got embroiled with the Commodity exchanges and they always win, because they make the rules and have the ultimate rule maker on their side, the US government. His plan was working, he got taken down because he had lots of futures contracts, and there was that same short side interest that there is today. They naked shorted the market and he lost.
What is happening right now is so similar as to be eerie. An entity is buying up all the physical silver it can get, for the same reasons that Bunker was doing it. That entity has amassed a huge unknown amount of silver, but certainly, at least twice as much as Bunker did. The difference is that this entity is not in the commodities market and therefore un touchable by those same short interests. The entity, of course, is millions of individuals from all walks of life, the public.
This action has turned the physical market into a huge Gorilla. The commodities market pales in comparison as far as actual physical silver delivered to buyers is concerned. This physical market has stayed pretty much in lockstep with the paper market as regards price, but due to abuses and corruption in the paper market, the physical is breaking away from the paper market, which has always determined price discovery. Now that all players see the blatant corruption in the paper market, a new price discovery mechanism will assert itself.
A similar parallel can be drawn about the price of gold as recently as a year ago. Gold seemed to track almost exactly the inverse price of the dollar. This continued until the market realized that the dollar was finished and that any upwards movements of the dollar were simply aberrations brought about by currency swaps, bond failures around the world and other factors. The fate of the dollar is sealed and this is now known by all the players, so the gold price broke away and now moves completely independently of the dollar. In one sense, this is strictly not true, as gold is going up because the dollar is going down, but no one is fooled anymore by temporary moves to the upside of the dollar, no matter how well it is talked up by the FED or the idiots on CNBC.
Like wise, we have just arrived at the point where no one will be fooled by the Comex price of silver any more. After the display put on this past week at the Comex, we all get it. And remember, we don't have commodities contracts, so the exchange can't naked short us to death. We frankly don't care. As long as the Comex pricing mechanism holds up, it will act to only further bring about this change, as manipulated lower prices for silver will bring about greatly increased buying on the part of the public, increasing the shortage. The Comex traders engineer this big whack job to push silver lower to stop this advance and it has no effect. The public sees it as "Silver on sale" and they just buy more. The Comex con artists can have no affect on what's happening, almost by definition. The public buys silver for the same reason Bunker did, only we're not on margin.
As witness, what happens? The Comex brings the price down. The public watches but does not sell its physical. When it looks like the price has bottomed, the public jumps in and buys all the physical it can get, until the dealers are out of stock and back ordered for six weeks. This just increases all the fundamental pressures that were driving silver to the upside. Blythe and company ulitmately achieve, with their short sighted manipulation, the opposite of what they are trying to accomplish.
So, I say to those manipulative forces that are trying to stop us, go ahead, keep it up. The pricing mechanism is going to change now, and whatever you do just drives the price higher anyway.
y The only reason anyone waxes so gloriously grievously regarding Ag is to assist the market; elevator down anyone? Sure, when the price pops around a lot in a short period of time "the masses" become a bit more interested and allow themselves to be fleeced of buckaroos they might need for diapers or beer, with said topping prices than trashed as the behind-the-curtain guys take profits. When the "masses" buy silver from those carnying the bark of its value, as proposed by the barker, and not representative of any "real" value. So when we consider silver we need consider it side-by-side with those things which do have real value. For the human race, those things are: shelter, food, clothing, medicine, and of course, family. With those items, all is good, we remain viable, and can rebuild from anything. Where is silver in that quotient? Noooowhere. Oh sure it has a pretty little sparkle when flashed beneath the light or held next to a fire for a moment, and then what? Ah yes, put back into its place of "honor" tucked away until the next time to look at it. And of the above list of items of value, nothing is more valuable than the ability of a person to Create from their own effort, items they may exchange with others that contribute to the social construct: awe over an apple, months to create! marvel over a loaf of bread fresh from the oven, truly a gift! take joy in the hands of a small child on your cheeks, and thank Jesus for the continuation of the human race! What bohers me most about the silver carnies is there concomitant nod to "The Road" (movie reference) deconstruction of the world. Our responsibility, for our children and grandchildren, is to reject these seeders of demise, send them scurrying to their holes with their cold, hard metals, and then go plant a tree (metaphor!). And as to the numbers, since no one has been interested in metals for thirty years, where is the thirty years of mined metals in these equations...hmmmm...too, no one, and that is no one, knows how much is in China (whose people are famous for squirreling beneath the floorboards items they wished to keep), or anywhere else in the world for that matter. And then there is Mexico...so full of silver it bursts with it...and when that starts coming up from the mines...there goes your price, down down down. So the physical commodity investor does have much to lose: they lose the value of the standing as being shall we say, "shoulder-to-shoulder" with their fellow humans. Instead of silver, I'll own a bakery. The sniding use of "full faith and credit of the United States" to derisively suggest that our dollars have no value, do not reflect our strength, is ludicrous. I take a FRN out and I say, "350 million people can move a pretty big mountain, when needed." Oh sure, we have been sated with food stamps the giant bags of potato chips they buy; we have been slimed (as the kids say) with torture porn and the horror the horror (see literary reference: The Heart of Darkness/Joseph Conrad) of genitalia as plot. We have been told that we should support the non-productive, the illegals, the immigrats with their disregard for our ways and our language, accommodating that which should not be accommodated, slivers as those accommodations are beneath our nails. What we are seeing is the end of America's "Great Experiment." For the first time in the history of the Entire World, there was an attempt to kumbiya around one giant campfire because the liberals told all (via the gulaged media complex) that we could all just live together. That America had so much in resources and money that we could bring the entire world to our living standard, or barring that we could certainly raise the standards, eliminate hunger, disease, et al. But what we didn't change, what can't be changed, and what won't be changed, is human nature, and so far, human nature inerrably stamps "sharing" with "self-interest." Nowhere is this more evident than in the immigrats, who have flooded this country. Entire towns have driven out Americans as "others" have taken them over. Recently I went to a mall where I was one of maybe ten or twenty at most whites among endless hordes of Chinese; the immigrats having displaced and overloaded the local system so completely that whites Have learned they are not welcome; the hard-eyed look from the Chinese leaves one distinctly, unwelcome. (Had to go there because of the "computer store.") All of the above is a rather wordy (so sorry, it is a problem for moi!) way of saying that commodites are wonderful, but I prefer: rice, wheat, corn, and watermelon. (Sorry again, the last one isn't really a commodity, but tastes so good!) Yah, we can buy silver, but let's always remember where the real value is. Our work. Our people. And those commodities that sustain daily life.
Great Avatar and even Better! Name!
Rock that shit!
You convinced me. Monday or Tuesday I'm going out to buy physical might piss off the wife though. Thanks for the heads up
Actually I think many people are still trusting paper and had been bidding paper silver up to the extreme but do not forget that the powers that be can print infinite amounts of paper silver flooding the market with it whenever its to their advatage and so can always drive paper prices down and do that without limit.
In fact I believe they plan to eventually do just that.I have read that they already have in place the small print to allow cash settling and the only reason I can see why they do not do it now and crash silver and gold compleatly is that it can only be completely done just the one time and then all credibility is lost.Think about this they can drive the price down to any extreme they want literally, 1.00 an ounce silver or less by selling infinite amounts of paper silver then by defaulting they can force everyone to take cash settlements on the paper price while physical goes to the moon in backwardation.When the physical price separates they are as of recently by adding some small print, can now force you to take the much lower paper price in cash while they can keep the extra.They are set up now to not only burn you but do it legally.
COMEX can default giving you GLD and or SLV shares and those in turn have the small print to pay in cash.
Seriously I am waiting for silver to go to some small amount like 1.00 an ounce if not zero all while the physical goes to the moon when all this paper fraud is exposed.Seriously just like fiat there is absolutely no limit to the amount they can sell of paper silver contracts, no limit at all and you can bet that as long as, the longer the game the greater the gain then they wont crash it but when its over look out below.Yes naked shorting is supposed to be illegal but what to you expect of too big to fail.
I seriously cannot think of any reason why they would not do this given what I know about JPM eventually doing this.Kind of surprised that this was not the big crash.Actually I only have to think what I would do if I were a ruthless !@#$ banker and that's exactly what I would do too, so I do not really need any proof when common sense is enough.
See http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/ and while he may get a few things wrong ?? I know he gets a lot right.
Why is there so much focus on the "paper" price of silver as it goes up, but when silver goes down, suddenly the "paper" price becomes meaningless? It kinda sounds like people lying to themselves or being willfully ignorant.
The answer to your question is simple. The Comex doesn't manipulate the price up, however, they do criminally manipulate it down with 5 margin hikes in 8 days. The free market is allowed to determine the price of Apple. The free market hasn't been allowed to determine the market value of silver in many, many years. That is about to change. If you want to buy Apple, go ahead but it's not going to outpace inflation and/or dollar revalution. The Dow could go to 30,000 but if the USD is practically worthless are you wealthier? You probably won't connect the dots until it's too late. Yes, the game is unfair but it sounds like you're content living on your knees as a sychophant.
Open your mind or someone's going to open it for you. I don't deal with conspiracy. I deal with facts. The facts along with a 3rd grade education would enable anyone with an open mind to see what's going on. You may be drifting off to a slave labor camp or flipping burgers when we get to the other side of this debacle. I'll take the carnival as long as my purchasing power stays intact.
I think that perhaps if you did some research on silver and found out the history of silver and silver price over the last 30 years, a lot of your questions would be answered.
"So if it's not a medium of exchange, is it a storage of wealth? Yes, indeed it is. But is it better than many other options? Maybe, but not really. I could pick the biggest "sheeple" stock on Earth - Apple - and it's been a better storage of wealth than silver in the past 2 years, and more broadly, this past decade."
When the hyperinflation starts, Apple will lose most of it's value, just like all other stocks. Silver will go to the moon, if you can buy it at all.
Two years out, silver will be The Least Important commodity. We are "electronified" up to the ears, so the primary commercial use of silver is toast for a decade, at least. Particularly as the recycled silver from older electronic components feeds back in to the "reused" river of silver. Yesterday, my purchases included a 1.7 ounce of potato chips for 99 cents and I swore that I would buy a deep fryer (probably that nice little one from Wolfgang Puck!) and I purchased a 20-ounce root beer that was $1.79! Holey Moley and pass the guacamole! Today on my list is looking up a root beer recipe as I refuse, I refuse to pay these prices. Thus, to that list of commodities ya might want to add sugar beets or cane and potatoes. And I'll be happy to take your silver for my potatoes when your stomach starts growling! (I grow potatoes in trash cans!)
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