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Pima County Sheriff: "Loughner May Have Had An Accomplice"
Salon provides some unpleasant additional information on yesterday's headline news, which many had already suspected: namely that Loughner likely did not act alone. "Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said at a news conference in
Tucson on Saturday that authorities may have a photo of another suspect." Unfortunately, with a nation increasingly on edge, this possibility will likely turn out to be true. We can only hope that other like-minded individuals do not take this event as an escalation signal, and proceed to take vigilante "justice" into their own hands.
From Salon:
The Arizona sheriff helping investigate the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and others says the gunman may not have acted alone.
Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said at a news conference in Tucson on Saturday that authorities may have a photo of another suspect.
Dupnik says officials believe a suspect in custody may have come to the grocery store parking lot with another person, and that person was in some way involved.
Dupnik would offer no other information.
People familiar with the investigation have identified the suspected gunman being held as 22-year-old Jared Loughner.
Law enforcement officials also believe Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was the intended target of an armed attack in Tucson. Dupnik said at a Saturday evening news conference that "I don't have information about whether she was the first person shot, but yes, I believe she was the target."
The sheriff said Giffords was shot once in the head, and 18 other people were shot. Six are dead.
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He's being sarcastic.
Actually, these are the two books - in addition to The Phantom Public - that Glenn Beck implores his audience to read if they want to understand the how/why the modern progressives are no different than the Nazis and the communists. Beck often quotes from them and says that he, himself, had spent much time studying them and even traveled oversees for research on progressives.
To quote Beck, there is "a great evil on our doorstep..." and "we must drive a stake through its heart..."
Maybe this is the sort of evil, inciting rhetoric that Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik was referring to when he said, "The vitriolic rhetoric that we hear day in and day out from people in the radio business and some on T.V. must stop."
To quote John F Kennedy, "The great enemy of truth is not the lie...but the myth - persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in the myth allows the comfort of opinion without the comfort of thought."
Glenn Beck is both the rodeo clown and the maestro of the myth.
Kennedy?
The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society.
Edward Bernays
Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.
Joseph Goebbels
All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.
Adolf Hitler
Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.
Joseph Stalin
Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.
Mao Tse-Tung
Until we educate our children to understand the workings of propaganda, it will matter not what is said on radio programs or delivered from the oval office.
Until the people show they are capable of the responsibilities of citizenship, as described by Jefferson, the only protection we have is to hobble the power of government to act.
When sheriffs encourage censorship, it shows a clear divide between the ideologies of liberty and tyranny- and the government (I am waiting for some other government spokesperson to correct him) is spouting tyranny.
Minimum government is essential to liberty of the people. Regardless of what you consider this to mean, our present system is neither minimum nor government for the people.
Go take a look at his You Tube film where he's hooded and masked, holding an American Flag all to music with lyrics that shout 'the bodies fall'
Not everything is a "false flag." Yes, "false flags" happen -- more often than we think, but to think this guy was recruited by progressives because he read Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto is specious. He also read Animal Farm, Rand's "We the Living," and Farenheit 451, so one could argue just as persuasively that he was a libertarian or anarchist. His reading list was actually quite sophisticated for a 22 year old, and Alice in Wonderland was particularly ironic -- whatever his motivations, this guy clearly took a running dive head first into the rabbit hole.
His YouTube posts less so... They have all of the characteristics of schizophrenia/psychosis. The video of Loughner burning the flag in the Tucson desert is creepy and chilling. (Sidebar: Why do ALL of these guys have "Lee" as a middle name?). His rambling writings have all of the characteristics of the letters we used to get from tinfoil hatters when I worked in Washington years ago. The big x factor here is the supposedly missing accomplice - 40-50 years old apparently. I'm not persuaded by false flag arguments yet, but reserve the right to revise and extend my remarks if they find this guy.
But, there's a far more intriguing dynamic at play in all of this IMO... ZH is a super-sophisticated blog yes? The content is smart, thought-provoking for the most part... Even investigative journos take it seriously. Yeah, there's been some half-baked misses, but also lots of hits (e.g. JP manipulation of silver market, HFTC, etc. etc.) -- all in all a good batting average. In short, folks here aren't the typical right of center/left of center knuckle draggers you find elsewhere. The comments are as eclectic, interesting, funny and clever as you'll find anywhere.
That's why I've been completely blown away by the comments here on the Gifford shooting in the last 24 hours. I'm not passing judgment (will get to that in a moment), but the common themes seem to be that it was a "false flag" operation or that our electeds in Washington have all sold out, and consequently these things will start happening with increasing frequency. Several have even posted that she deserved it, and it was "good riddance" -- well that one I am passing judgement on... She absolutely didn't, an innocent 9 year old kid was killed, and four other innocents were killed as well.
Here's the point... When I read comments like these, I realize I've been seriously underestimating the level of discontent out there. I've come to expect this level of red-hot discontent in the comments section of a USA Today article for instance, but it's always so facile - "Sarah Palin sucks", "Nobama is a Muslim". I'm not passing judgment precisely because the comments posted HERE are a real eye-opener. People are fucking pissed -- and it's no longer just the folks who have been continuously beaten down and abused by TPTB, the poor, the uneducated, the counter help at the Burger Doodle. It's now the upper income/ educated as well who are lurching for the pitchforks...
Keeping the poor and uneducated in servitude is relatively easy -- bread and circuses, "Proud to be an American", Six Flags, Dancing with the Stars. That sounds elitist, but I don't mean it to be... It's simple economics: These are the only diversions from misery they can afford and TPTB have established the cost structure this way intentionally to keep the poor at bay.
Keeping the "opinion elites" from the pitchforks is much harder, and this (judging from the comments here) is why I'd be crapping my Brooks Brothers if I were in DC or Wall Street right now. I'll hazard a guess that this site skews towards middle/upper income readers, college-educated, background in finance, entrepreneurial, well-read, etc. When THEY express the level of anger and discontent found here, it's game over.
Matt Taibbi defending ZH last year said that the truly great journalists are assholes. There's lots of assholes here... And thank God for that. Thoughtful assholery is indeed a change agent. And that's exactly why TPTB should be worried.
hey man - you seem kinda with it but you think for a SECOND that the vid with the buring flag that is on another account that he lists as a favorite vid, only has comments since the shooting??? been up there three months with no comments right??? dude never bothered to try to get ANYONE to watch it at all right?? No one at all...
I hope your dinner is served as well as this set up.. you'll eat like a king
Not persuasive...There's 30 minutes of video uploaded to YouTube every second, so signal to noise is off the charts. The vids are nonsensical drivel. It wouldn't even be worth the effort to post "dude, you're a fucking nutter".
What's more persuasive if you're going to argue false flag is the reading list -- a combo of Randian objectivism, national socialism, communism, dystopian fiction, and social allegory (Alice in Wonderland). A complete mishmash.
How many 22 year olds do you know with such eclectic reading tastes? This guy was kicked out of Pima Community College for chrissakes, so it's hard to believe he would have the self-awareness and curiosity to explore such heady literary themes, and at such a young age.
If you want to argue false flag, that's the smoking gun... Post this strange reading list that satisfies the predilections of both sides: Right gets to sling arrows at the left (Mein Kampf, Communist Manifesto), left gets to sling arrows at the right (We the Living, Animal Farm)... keep the false political paradigm firing on all cylinders. As long as they keep us fighting "either/or" we lose. It's not Soros OR Wall Street, Republicans OR Democrats -- these are false constructs.
All that said, and as I said previously as to false flag -- I'm not on board yet. Sometimes a stray moonbat is just that. We'll see.
Glenn Beck talks about progressives a lot and George Soros as well. Rush Limbaugh talks about Saul Alinsky. So we see that zionist handlers have ok'ed this type of conversation since it does not alter or endanger their overall goals. So when we parrot this type of discussion, we are in fact, shooting ourselves in the foot. Plain and simple. We must take control of our own money, or any discussion about who is at fault, is illusionary and unnecessary and a waste of precious time. Let us get rid of the FED and then you will see how all of these things work themselves out. Believe me, if we got rid of the FED, the blinders would come off and people would see things as they are. For you see, the FED is the crux of the whole problem, always was and always will be. For you see, the FED gives them the power to control us and is the foundation of their power over us. Destroy it and you destroy them and you make them small men, like they are anyway, small men without financial power over us and small men who contribute nothing to humanity except war, corruption and death.
+1000000
i bet it would not be too hard to correlate a significant increase in the acceleration of the shift of the world's wealth into the hands of the "elites" and the creation of the Fed. not to mention that you cannot have world wars without central banking.
Agreed. The kid was a pot head - he was not a tea party member or a conservative. I wonder why the Army would not let him enlist. Soros has hated guns because it is the last step for full control. Odd how psycho's like the guy in Scotland and the Australia engage in mass murder then guns are taken away.
The last assasination was in Holland. Pim Fortyun was killed by a leftist. Pim was gay and not a conservative but he was against mass immigration from Islamic countries.
I think the Dems poll numbers were so bad that they keep one of these Manchurian candidates on ice until they are needed. Then blame the right.
I suggest you consult the Federalist Papers for the 'consistent thinking and logic' behind the 2nd amendment. If you do not understand the need for the 2nd amendment, in those times and especially in these times, you sir are part of the problem. As for your statement implying that Libertarians or anyone I can think of seriously believes in the possibilty of supporting the Federal government on 'no taxes' is just silly.
If you really believe that the 'clever GOP' is the only source of 'zombie lies', you are a fool or a dupe.
You need to read up a bit more on the history of the second amendment and see that the right to bear arms was meant as protection against external aggressors to the US, not against internal opponents.
Nice spin on it though.
Wrong.
Perhaps you should read the Declaration of Independence.
More Critical Thinking Wanted.. your psycho-sexual preoccupation with musclebound steroid kings is cute. I enjoy watching your pathetic attempts at getting big strong men to castigate you! Keep it up!Critical thinking....here? That's rich.
Most of these moonbats don't even participate in the normal and daily threads about the financial and market issues.
They just come up from the gutter when something like this happens and start pitching partisan rhetoric. It's amazing...sad...pathetic...but amazing.
moonbats don't even participate in the normal and daily threads about the financial and market issues.
They just come up from the gutter when something like this happens and start pitching partisan rhetoric.
Yes, many are spewing the same partisan rhetoric. Curious.
You are saying this is true only for a certain class of people? Seems like it would apply to just about everybody. Threshold.
You guys are probably right. The only sane, safe and dependable American citizens belong to the neo-conservative Republican wing (patriot act, FISA, occupation over natural resources for private corporations), or the Democratic wing (..nuff said).
In one of his online rants, Loughner said that he was a “United States Military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix”. Reports suggest that he also may have been deployed to Afghanistan at one point.
When this obvious schizoid is revealed to be a programmed robot, you two morons will ignore it and continue to "blame libertarians".
The Army has already stated he was rejected as unfit.
Could you please keep up?
I hope they keep a close eye on the senator. She's been judged unfit and rejected as well. She may develope some sort of mental problem from this. Plus she had a bullet go through her brain. She's probably going to be a crazy loser her next life.
With enough stupidity we can all run from the truth about what we are creating. More denial plz..
"Reports suggest"
Must be true... Thanks.
Damn right it's true! I surfed around until I found something that loosely confirms my own half-baked ignorant ideas. Therefore, it's accuracy is dead-nuts.
Now...if I can just find a political pundit to say somthing to ice the cake...
Nothing spreads the truth as well as totally in the dark humans acting on intuition and need to have it confirmed through official channels. Wonderful system isn't it.
Right on Harry! If we could have stopped those damn Libertarians back in 1775, we would be so much better off....You apparently know less about our political history as you do about our capital markets. Without 'pissed off' Libertarians, you sir would not have the avatar you so disengenously use here.
For myself, I hope all on ZH continue to see that Dem v Rep, or Right v Left are no longer viables option for citizens of this Republic to pursue in order to have a future worth living, especially for the generations to follow. Unless we understand that we are in a time where Liberty v Tyranny is the real question we must face, the moral right not any political 'right' or 'left', is what we must have as our goal, just as they did in 1776. Indeed it may be even more true today with the threats to the sanctity of our persons and our homes, hell our very thoughts at risk as they are now, and control of the levers of power in the hands of those with such clear disregard for the lives and liberties of those they so carelessly disregard in the mad scramble for total power. If we do not understand that we are at a tipping point in history for personal Liberty and the survival of the principles for which the patriots before us made such humbling sacrifices, we do not deserve to survive as a nation, let alone the 'shining city on the hill'.
well said, but I think the tipping point was passed around 1916. the vast majority of Americans wanted the US to stay out of the war and re-elected Wilson on his promise that he would keep us out of the war (not to mention that the majority supported Germany). well, the lying bastard set the propaganda mill to work to "change public opinion" and the rest is history.
people who could see through the propaganda (Germans eating Belgian babies and so forth) publicly protested Wilson's decision to go to war and landed in jail, for extended sentences, in a clear violation of the First Amendment. coincidentally, the Federal Reserve was only established three years before, at the end of 1913.
this was our chance and we blew it. we have been an empire ever since, and empires never end well.
Yes, and while for years these guys have been allowed to incite violence via thinly veiled threats like:
and when finally some lunatic (or rather, lets call him a libertarian who is actually consistent with that ideology) does take them by their word, it's suddenly "this is not the time for politics!".
Not to mention Sarah "Reload, baby, Reload" Palin and her crosshairs-infested map of targets which she has taken down meanwhile.
Take this dumbwits: if you play with fire you may get burned.
If you teach broken thinking then the crazies will eventually take you seriously ...
What's it like to be such a fearful little wimp? Something tells me you are really going to be hurting when TSHTF. I guess I'd be pro-government, too, if I was a helpless little sniveler like you. Good luck.
Yes, it looks like a tribe of flaming liberal trolls are on a rampage here at Zero Hedge. Why do they even bother to come to a libertarian finance blog? The same reason gays want to get married: they are jealous and spiteful.
LOL. My thoughts exactly. What the fuck are these people doing here? Don't they belong in the foodstamp and wellfare line? Perhaps they have a save the planet from global warming rally to go to?
Axelrod and Soros ponied up for some overtime.
Someone did.
yo idjit, ya don't stand in line for food stamps, it's done over the phone or online. i dont qualify for welfare, but that EBT card lets me get 2gal of ice cream and a pound of prosciutto every week......gotta feed the fam ya know.
as far as save the planet, the planet dont need saved, never has never will. the only thing that would have any long term effect on earth (long term in REAL terms....100k+ years or so) is this foolish energy weapon stuff.
any self-respecting human that really wanted to save the world would find the shiny red button that would fumigate the human virus and push it. not bloody likely however.
im unemployed w/o ability to collect the dole gathering state assistance for food, healthcare, and dental and whatever means i can pry ANY $cheddar$ from you, state.gov, us.gov, the united way, salvation army.....whoever wants to 'lend' a helping hand. the game is rigged before yer born, yadda whatever you wanna about libertarian/conservative/democrat.....i will continue to milk any/everything i can from the welfare-state bosom
disclaimer; all skills/prowess I obtained in willful manipulation/deceivery are property of the u.s. dept. of defense and cannot be disseminated without.....well, signing up.
all the way.
id feel better if someone junked me.....
There you go cc.... All better now?
I just put you down as a typical English major and I was too moved by pity.
Is it jealousy or masochism? (for both liberals on ZH and gay marriage)
I can see your reasoning now:
"If I'm a libertarian and I come to ZH, then ZH is a libertarian blog. I come to ZH. Therefore, ZH is a libertarian blog."
Sound familiar?
Why do cons feel the need to mention gays every chance they get? The same reason you catch so many of them in airport bathrooms or texting pages...jealous and self-spiteful.
I thought that was why they got divorced?
But seriously, marriage is a contract between two people allowing one to make decisions for the other. It's like a very far reaching partnership. The state has no business telling people they can or can't make contracts with each other.
No, ZH used to be a blog of primarily very well informed readers with a great deal of knowledge and insight about bond trading and money markets. Sadly, the signal to noise ratio is sliding.
+++++++++++++
It's an amazing plunge in IQ and, obviously, level of education.
I actually feel 'dirty' now being associated (even if in cyberland only) with these ignorant bozos.
There are no reasonable comments. It's just a pamphlet reading of your preferred party.
Sad.
I think everybody on Zerohedge is tired of the fucking postponing of the farce by Bernanke, which has now lasted for about 2.5 years. Everybody's waiting for the crisis to unravel. The entire Ponzi which is the world financial system is everyday on the brink of falling.
I've started trolling for this reason: I'm tired, sick.
Waiting gets on your nerves in ways you can't imagine.
+1
-2
You're dangerous and unbalanced. This was a senseless act by a deranged idiot. It has nothing to do with Bernake or the financial ponzi scam we all hate.
You want to start your revolution? Stop paying the banks. Max out your credit cards and buy precious metals. Refuse to get involved in equities. In short, starve the beast. Tell your friends what's going on. Steer them towards the ZH site.
Shooting 18 people including clearly innocent people and children is abhorrent and doesn't accomplish a god damn thing.
Shooting 18 people including clearly innocent people and children is abhorrent and doesn't accomplish a god damn thing.
Of course, I agree with this. Anyone with a brain and the capacity to feel compassion would.
But if you look at the 1000+ comments from yesterday's thread, you'll find an alarming number of sickening, mentally warped individuals who think otherwise.
This was a senseless act by a deranged idiot.
Was it now? That's the extent of it?
Watching what the gubmint has become warns me that these events are orchestrated for purposes beyond the face value of the event.
I am jealous of your youth. I wish I was your age and knew what I know now. Also when the shtf, I would be much more able to make very nice contributions. But never the less, I intend on doing anything and everything I can, to do what needs to be done. There are traitors in this land, traitors that deserve what is coming to them for doing things that are destroying the land of my fathers. This must not stand. This will not stand, if and only if, the blood of freedom and liberty loving people , still flows somehow in the at least some of the people of this country. However, we have waited until now. We must continue to wait. We have no choice. Right now the war is a information war, a war for the minds and the hearts of the sheep. This must continue up until the end. Then the war will perhaps become something else. Do I long for this ? God forbid. I know full well what this means. I have no misconception about it all. I know they will go for the win and throw everything they have against us. It will be a war between good and evil. It will be a war that can be won, but it also will be a war that can be lost. Losing is not a option. We all know what is at stake here, a way of life, that is intrinsically American, one which the whole world (at least used to) marvel at and one which is dying fast now. Most of the people around here and there don't see this happening. I do. I see it plain as day and I realize that many will never hear the caedmon's call. I for one do not know for sure how this will all play out. NO one does really. There is no organized oppostion to this tyrannical government that is totally out of control now. But I must as a thinking American, lean on our rebellious past and our traditions of rebellion that have long been lost in the sands of time and to now, must be , as if by magic, reawakened somehow , someway and quickly now. I was rereading the Constitution and some of the Federalist Papers earlier this week. I don't know why I decided to do that, but I had this feeling to do it and so I did. As I read it , I realized (again) as I have in the past , that so much is at stake here, so much can be lost. While I think some of the founding fathers did not have our best interest at heart and wanted to turn this land into a huge plantation and we were to be the slaves working on that plantation, some of the founding fathers wanted what is right and good for the people. There was push and pull, give and take and what came out was this precious document, something that has never been replicated in this world. I know George Bush said it was a god damn piece of paper and it doesn't mean anything . I know he said that. Even though they feel this way, many of us do not. We stupid Americans have always felt this god damn piece of paper as Bush called it, actually meant something to us and was the law of the land, the foundational document to all of our laws based upon the common law , as derived from that magnificent Magna Carta. This is the weakness that the NWO crowd knows all too well. For you see, while they were busy plying their trade of war, death and destruction and financial alchemy , they allowed us to believe we were free and this belief that we were free is the thing that is so dangerous to them. It must somehow be used to our benefit. So now as the sheep, scratch their heads and try to figure out what is going on, we must continue with the information war, hoping against hope that somehow, some way, a sheep coalition can be formed, not all agreeing on all subjects, but agreeing to be of one mind when attempting to wrestle control of this tyrannical government from the hands of those who want to destroy us. The time is short. It is up to you to decide while you still can. There is strength in numbers. Lone wolves are easy prey. Shall we continue to argue about silly political issues and how and why things are happening or shall we move as one, one people , determined, to take back what is rightfully ours and has been stolen. For you see, they don't think we have the stomach for it. They think we shall always be just dumb stupid goyim , cattle for them to do whatever it is they want to do to us and never knowing what is truly going on. The choice is ours to make. My hope and the hope of many is that during this information war, that many of the sheep will finally start to get it and become as one, one in voice, one in action and one , one in determination that this land, the land of my fathers and the land of our fathers, shall not bow down to foreign owners, shall not bow down to world government, shall not bow down to tyranny. There is a cold wind now ,blowing across the net. With the events of this weekend and the rhetoric being espoused in the MSM mouthpieces concering this event, any thinking person can only conclude that the voices of dissent shall soon be extinguished , and the reason given of course, will be, to make us all safer. Just remember. We are all terrorist now. Or so we are told by our own government , which whether we want to admit it or not, is the real terrorist and along with other governments, today, are and were always the terrorist against freedom, liberty and any thinking and rational persons whoever and wherever they are.
If you don't like any of the current fights, you could always start one of your own. It would seem more respectable than whining about the thread you continue to read and post comments on. Just saying.
Or you could just STFU and let ZH get some hits over the weekend. Traffic is a good thing.
I've already had my fights. I'm convinced there's no way to reason with the crazies coming out in droves. You're either on the elephant side or donkey side. I've even been accused on not having the 'balls' to pick a side. Incredible....really.
I suppose the traffic is desired albeit a mix of bizarre beings.
You do the SAME FUCKING THING you accuse others of, bitch.
I don't care what team you think you're on, chump; you're still an idiot
It's the egos on here that are really what keep this place from becoming what it could be. I suspect it's the nature of the types of individuals that become knowledgeable about the world. The "A" type personalities. Notice how every clarification needs to be followed by how stupid the previous individual is. Instead of a quest for truth it becomes about the individuals competing in senseless pissing contests.
If new information comes to light, change, don't continue defending old useless points of view. If you are a government paid disinformation agent, throw your computer in the garbage and think about your life.
Feel free to leave, then. Go back to the Obama forums or wherever you crawled out from.
LMFAO...you can't make this up. I'm an Obama lover now.
Why not? You seem to spout all forms of nonsense. Perhaps you Boehner forums, then?
Perhaps I <sic> Boehner forums, then? I don't even know what you are TRYING to communicate to me.
Ok. I'll try to communicate something meaninful with you. The government has a new idea about how to do things. It's not new at all it's been the plan all along. People aren't open to it.
So I see a bunch of healthy well adjusted close minded people. Perfectly capable of resisting the stupidity that is coming our way. All of us are right and none of us are right at the same time. We are Jacks fucking shrodenger body politic. You have no idea what you're dealing with or what fucking quantum state we are in. Analyzing us is going to slide the cheese off your fucking cracker.
These people. These are people I can love and trust. You riotous disagreeable fucks are the only comfort I have in this world.
+1
Both political parties suck but the Dems are downright evil especially Hussein's gang. You have all the evidence you need in Calif and IL where both states are beyond broke and insanely corrupt. Taxpayers are raped and flee the states.
+1776
hey man.......are you REALLY a chupacabra?
sarah palin isn't a libertarian; she's a christianist neo-conservative ally of israel, endless war and the wars on terrorism and drugs (to the degree she's coherent; primarily she's a marketing tool for her personal aggrandizement, imo).
Truth to be said, logic and coherency is not the strong point of any right-wing politician, be that republican, tea-partier or libertarian.
They don't need logic and consistency to be successful: they are preaching to emotion-laden masses. They preach fear and they reap loyality.
There's a reason why study after study has found it that fearfur, emotionally insecure, uneducated people are more likely to vote for republicans/conservatives.
Nonsense.
Republicans earn >50% more college degrees than democrats do, every single year since records have been kept in 1955, and it is true for both the men and the women. GOP 34% college degrees vs only 21% degrees for democrats. That difference is actually so great, and the impact so large, that if Democrats could just keep up there would be no national debt and social problems would be nil.
It's not even counterintuitive, it's obvious. Democrats are the ones who ask for government assistance all the time because they lack the education or work ethic to keep up. Examples: HS drop out rates in Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland are >50% and that is fairly typical of large metro bastions of liberalism. Also, our prisons are not full of evangelicals, and 90% of prison inmates identify with the democrat party. But again, it's not even counterintuitive, it's obvious, and that's why democrats keep pressing to get inmates the right to vote.
Republicans are more educated, earn more, pay more taxes, less likely to cheat on taxes, give far more to charity, and are more tolerant of others in society, even for gays; only exception was less tolerance for violent anarchists. Yes, there are studies for all of this, and they back up the opposite of what you claim.
The Studies are all compiled in the 2008 book by Joseph Fried, called, "Rhetoric vs Reality... Democrat vs Republican." It's a great read, done with much humor and page after page of compilations of studies with graphs and charts comparing Dems and GOP.
The democrats are not the educated class or the intelligentsia. They're idiots.
.
LOL, then how do you explain:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ieXw28ZUpg/SgmX0dTi6GI/AAAAAAAABIM/QJX19BAVle...
The republican's presidential candidate's voting share amongst postgrads went from above 60% 30 years ago to 40% as of 2008 - the democrat's increased from 40% to 60%. The trendline is very clear.
Looks like those people who use their brains turned away from republicans?
Piled higher and Deeper.
Most republican leaders of the past 30 years being unintelligent, anti-science and anti-common-sense idiots probably helped the transition to.
Sarah Palin is a role model there.
You forgot spineless, sell-out RINOs.
I'm reserving judgement on Palin simply because the establishment hates her so much.
She works in the lame-stream media...and you think the 'establishment' is against her?!
Buahahahaha. Sheeple stampede.
She's hardly an anchor, and she gives Fox some sorely needed conservative street cred.
Still doesn't make up for Shep's drama queen act, but it is something.
I had no idea education had deteriorated that much!
Thanks for the info.
What I am a little confused on is how his MySpace comments didnt get further inspection. It is well known that TSA/FBI do word parsings continuously on these types of websites. I suspect someone is right now going back and looking at the type of phrasing this kid used. With the types of things he was saying time and time again, it is strange that the billions spent on spotting/tracking people like this were not able to assist better than it did.
Now you're gonna go an' pop the little bubble that the tinfoiler moonbats have about the gov being all-powerful and engineering gigantic conspiracies more complicated than the plot in Total Recall
It's not surprising that most post grads vote democratic - they're all professors.
"Examples: HS drop out rates in Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland are >50% and that is fairly typical of large metro bastions of liberalism."
Why not add how much you really HATE blacks and mexicans? That's the whole point of your stupid ranting.
You fucking racist moron. Shame on you.
Explain why race was what jumped into your mind.
Those are all Dem machine towns and they suck. No discussion of race is necessary to prove welfare states lead to poverty and misery.
I'm thinking you missed class on the correlation vs. causation lecture day.
I'm no Democrat, but you are a dumbass.
I think it is "close enough" to be betting money on. I'll stay with the opinion I have.
It's hopeless...24 hour news and pundits have convinced the ignorant and uneducated that they are well versed and armed to-the-teeth with absolute truths.
I give up.
Are pundits now supposed to sound like they don’t have a clue? What would you say if you worked for a TV station, considered yourself a serious journalist and your producer said to you "you need to sound like you don’t have a clue what you are talking about, because if you sound too persuasive then people might believe you, we don’t want the charge of mind manipulation levelled at this TV station, so do what you are told and sound like a retard so no one believes you" ... please!!
You're a fucking idiot. You are a perfect example of what's wrong with the world. You're part of the problem not the solution. Go earn a darwin award.
Eat a gun, troglodyte.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is the quality of intellect of the average liberal and goes a long way to demonstrate the accuracy of the antecedent claim.
You really don't realize how stupid that comment is...do you?
You are the only one talking about race here. Why does calling out the cities mentioned an indication of hatred of blacks of Mexicans? Did you ever stop to think that maybe he thinks (as I do) that those groups are VICTIMS of liberalism. For example, raise the minimum wage, price any groups that don't already have capital out of entry level jobs. the "unintended" consequences of big government always hit the poor the hardest. If we had switched to a centrally planned economy 30 years earlier you would be complaining about racism versus Irish and blacks, rather than blacks and Mexicans.
WHO CARES IF YOU HATE BLACKS AND MEXICANS??
It is IRRELEVANT. The original statement is STILL TRUE
You have to ask yourself Mr. Tmosley, if the day comes (and it will), that blacks and Mexicans are at your door , trying to get in, what will you do in that day? What will you think? Listen I understand the plight of the poor. I know full well about them. I have lived among them most of my life. But the plan is race war. I am sorry to tell you that. I wish I could say something different. But as time goes by, you will begin to understand more and more. So while we fight each other, we are weak. This is the direct result of a failed multicultural social experiment, a experiment that they knew all too well would fail and was designed to fail from the start. As I have stated before, diversity means weakness. It cannot be any other way. Different races have differing ways of looking at things and different opinions about how things should be done. This is quite normal. When you put different races together by force, then you create unnatural paradigms that work themselves out in various deleterious ways. I tell you what Mr. Tmosley. I don't have anything against anybody to tell you the truth, even after all that has happened. Hate is a strong emotion. At this time I cannot hate. Maybe I can never hate. I don't know. It possibly can be a learned trait but the reality of the situation is this. If and when you have to take up the gun, just remember this, you will never ever see your true enemy. No you will see hungry and angry people of different races and I assume you are white, so guess what, you are the target because they have been taught since childhood by many ways, that you sir, are the enemy. Now I can sugarcoat it and tell you that there is no problem, but I direct you to modern day LA., where a hidden race war is on going between blacks and Mexicans. My advice to you is to gear up and butch up and get ready.
Fuck off you fkin Uncle Tom
@gwar,
I would urge to to read through the following link, Misperceptions, the Media and the Iraq War, as it points to some disturbing statistics about Faux News viewers, who I assume are mostly Republican and/or Libertarian.
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/IraqMedia_Oct03/IraqMedia_Oct03_r...
I'm not trying to make the argument that Republicans are dumb - that's far too sweeping. But the ability of a Faux News viewer to discern fact from myth is quite interesting.
NOT libertarian. They have perhaps one show aimed at Libertarians (Freedom Watch with Judge Napolitano), and one with a guy pretending to be a libertarian, but who stabs every truly libertarian candidate in the back whenever he can inflict the most damage (Glen Beck--friend to Texas governor Rick Perry--no more need be said).
If you think repugnicons are stupid, you should see some of the "truths" that the demoncraps cling to.
I mean, hell, look at NeObama's approval rating among them. Even when he slaps them in the face with his cock, they still refuse to accept that he's not who they pretended he was.
Nevermind libtard stances on gun control or welfare or the worst shit on the planet, DIVERSITY
I know.
But if I have a choice to argue against 100 or 5, I always choose the 100.
You are a total idiot. All the networks have deals with the Saudis and Al Waleed. It is all about staying on the satellite in the Middle East and China. They all love Islam. You are a typical idiotic TV viewer. It is all shit and all propaganda - Fox has slightly less than the others.
Why do you even post here? Hussein is the biggest POS to ever hold elected office and he is destroying the USA faster than anyone in history. His thugs manipulated the caucases through thuggery to insure Hillary would lose.
The other networks along with Fox totally fawn over him and never say an unkind word about him. You are a moron and you have no clue what is going on.
And all the left wing people are coldly unemotional and logical? When you grow up you will realize there isn't a lick of difference between the parties ande they played you for a sucker pretending there is such a vast gulf.
None of the issues they shout about mean anything to the wealthy. Much fuss about nothing to keep the sheep milling about and confused.
Not at all - but they at least do not wear lies and manipulation as badges of honor, like Boehner and the rest does. Those fake tears, oh my! :-)
Charlie Rangel, model of veracity...c'mon...clean your own house too.
Junked you as you can't be serious with you comments or your just a shill.
+1 million
Don't forget to lock your door tonight, the terrorists are coming for you. If only Obama would legalise torture we could put a stop to them, Oh wait, he did already.
Enjoy your false paradigm.
You're such a fucking idiot you don't even understand the difference between conservative and libertarian. A libertarian is as different from a conservative as they are a liberal. Liberals are the worst fucking people on the planet.
Except for puss gobbling scum like you.
Funny how you can just turn that around.
Also funny how you continue to falsely conflate libertarianism with conservatism. libertarianism is a bridging philosophy between the right and the left. It takes the personal freedom espoused by the left, adds the logical consistency of gun ownership, and combines it with the economic freedom preached by the right.
But seriously, you need more critical thinking. You are failing on all fronts.
So exactly how does letting corporations run free, form monopolies, cartels and trusts and seek rents from the rest of us result in a 'free' society?
It's all but free, as Standard Oil and other examples have shown it. Standard Oil was an almost clinically clean trial of free-market 'big fish eats small fish' dynamics. It's the natural end-game of free markets.
The economic side of libertarianism is full of basic contradictions like that.
Try this: in a free market, there is no such thing as a corporation, because the protection given to shareholders against lawsuit or prosecution is arbitrarily imposed by the state.
Standard Oil was not a monopoly, as you said in your own post when you noted that oil prices were higher where there was no competition, and lower where there was. This means there WAS competition. The only true monopoly can be had through government proclamation, as we have seen with utilities (see Enron). The fact is that we have far more monopolies now than we ever did back then, all due to governments imposing a high fixed cost "evenly" across all companies, which places an undue burden on new and small businesses. If governments do such a great job at stopping monopolies, why are we down to two carmakers in this country?
Erm, monopolies do not need to control 100% of the market.
There will always be small competitors, and monopolies maintain their position by carefully watching which ones grow too fast and absorbing them.
Furthermore, there's the tactics that a monopoly uses to gain monopoly status. Hint: it involves predatory tactics against competitors ...
Third, do you realize that the temporary low 'dumping' prices until a competitor is killed is followed by a much longer period of time of artificially high oil prices, when the monopolist recoups the losses during the dumping?
All in one, you are thoroughly confused about the history of the Standard Oil Trust - see earlier portions of the thread with a few examples of your misconceptions.
You should not be let near the formation of any economic policy without having at least some basic, elementary school level knowledge of how monopolies form and operate.
There's a nasty world out there and you 'aint know 'nuthing about it.
/m??n?p?li/ Show Spelled[muh-nop-uh-lee]
–noun, plural -lies.
1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices. Compare duopoly, oligopoly. 2. an exclusive privilege to carry on a business, traffic, or service, granted by a government.3. the exclusive possession or control of something.
4. something that is the subject of such control, as a commodity or service.
5. a company or group that has such control.
6. the market condition that exists when there is only one seller. You seem to think that you can just redefine terms whenever it suits you. You can't. Small businesses are competiton as well. Further, those "predatory" practices drive down prices. If they raise prices later, it just send more business to their small competitors. Also understand that when businesses raise and lower prices like that, it pisses off their clients, who will move to another business with more consistant pricing. The only way to get ahead in a free market is by providing a good product at the best price possible. You still haven't responded to my point that government intervention produces thousnds of times more monopolies (not to mention duopolies and oligopolies) than the free market ever did. You need more critical thinking.
Your reliance on copy/paste textbook definitions is not indicative of someone who understands real-world applications.
Microsoft.
Pardon the use of multiple puns.
Also, he's using the definition of a dictionary, while the definition of a "monopoly" in economics is different: a monopoly is an economic entity who is large and inter-connected enough to be able to control prices and suppress competition.
70%-90% market share is plenty enough for that - from that point on nobody will be able to ignore the 900lb gorilla. There were times when even a rumor of IBM (or later, Microsoft) disapproval of a new technology could kill a new startup dead in its tracks.
There's even been cases of companies with only 40% market share of being convicted of being a predatory monopoly: even such size can enable a company to stiffle competition.
In any case, before it was broken up Standard Oil Trust controlled well in excess of 90% of the US oil market.
Right, because there is no such thing as Apple, or Linux. No such thing as independant programmers.
Microsoft had what you seem to term (incorrectly) a monopoly. They had high prices, and a crappy product. That lead DIRECTLY to the reemergence of Apple as a major player in the PC market, and caused a lot of people to flee to Linux. Now, they have improved their product significantly.
Microsoft can't dictate shit anymore, despite retaining a huge market share. All without the need for it to be broken up.
Quite a lot of hogwash. Microsoft can no longer dictate shit? Maybe. But they can dictate. How what they dictate is perceived is a matter of taste.
The rest is stupid. Basically, Microsoft (or any software development firm working in franchise style) has to compete with the previous products that were developped (by Microsoft), this in the current environment.
Microsoft is trying all kinds of tricks to terminate this situation and to be able to force users out of their previous microsoft OS whenever they want to.
So the greatest concurrence faced by Microsoft is not Linux or Apple but well the OS previously developped by Microsoft.
To get people to buy Windows Vista, the biggest challenge was to convince people out of Windows XP, not a success for various reasons, which can be summed up by Vista is inferior to XP in many aspects and the new functionalities could not beat the resources invested in harnessing XP.
This is a problem well known by editors working on franchises. Quite often, it is not solved at the benefit of the consumer.
In this fantasy world how do you call contractual associations of groups of people which result in a shared activity and in a contractual dividing up of profits (and losses) from those activities? The basis of these associations is the increase in economic efficiency compared to an individual practicing the same activity in isolation.
These groups of people may be "employed" at various "sites" all across the country, in common business hours, and they use a common phrase to refer to this grouping, such as "CocaCola" or "AmeriTrade".
How is this contractual construct called in your "free market" world? There will be a shorthand for it I'm sure.
They are called "companies", and are administered as "partnerships". There is no need for shareholders to be held blameless for the illegal activities of thier company. If held to the high standard of partner in a company, then we wouldn't see sociopathic activities taking place under the guise of business.
You need more critical thinking to realize that people can organize without the need for a government to hold individuals blameless for group action.
So, what force keeps the "Standard Oil Trust" company from arising and dominating much of the US economy? Nothing really - 'survival of the fittest' in an economic environment leads to predatory monopolies: just like nature ended up putting a select few predators above flocks of prey ...
You want me and other citizens become that prey, and I simply do not like that end result. That is the source of my objection.
Ok, imagine that Standard Oil raised an army and conquered the United States, and now forced the people to buy their oil, and follow thousands of other laws that they impose for the benefit of themselves and their friends. That is the system we have today. That is the essense of big government. How is that not worse than what Standard Oil was?
You morons focus in so much on the one example you can think of, but you fail to grasp that we NOW have THOUSANDS of times more monopolies than there were then, ALL of which have been enabled or directly created by the government! You have no answer to that! You just scream for less freedom because freedom somehow makes us less free.
You need more critical thinking. Actually, you just need to think, period.
The multiplication of monopolies is explained by the end of globalization as a process.
To mount up a challenge to an existing offer, resources are needed.
As the world resources are mapped and that the current existing offers can knowingfully saturate the pool of resources, monopolies are to prevail more and more.
Large companies are nearing the end of competition as a sustainable process and therefore will establish themselves as long term monopolies.
Government or not.
@MCTW....STFU you idiotic moron....when you make statements as yours that fly in the face of every sort of evenhanded examination of any one person or any false paradigm, be it 'left v right' or 'con v lib', you only show yourself to be either a sad pitiable victim of the MSNBS propaganda machine, or worse....perhaps the injectables that have had all too much effect on your avatar have done all too much damage between your ears...what ever the case, please go away.
Then she has done a very poor job of countering various confused libertarians then:
http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2008/08/its-official-sarah-palin-no...
Show me a single interview or quote where she denies being a libertarian and where she distances herself from libertarian values. Truth is that she did not mind being labeled a libertarian and she had no trouble accepting their votes.
Now that it has turned somewhat inconvenient she has taken down her map of crosshairs and I'm sure she will distance herself from gun-toting, hate-filled, anti-healthcare libertarians. (Even though she played one on TV.)
Could you be any more of a flaming douche? People like you are as much of a problem as the scumbags in our government the corporate criminals. Go get your free healthcare from somebody else you fucking leech.
"Socially moderate" my ass. And she's a secessionist, not a libertarian.
I can't stand the fact that Sarah Palin is a leading topic anywhere, but especially here. The bitch is half-retarded, maybe even full-retard. She doesn't deserve the vote of anyone, especially the critical thinkers that tend to patronize this site. She is clearly no true conservative, she spent hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars on her wardrobe the first time she was given a go at the public's money. Anyone who buys anything she sells has been duped. Plain and simple.
Strange. I seem to remember it as the RNC spent a hundred grand of donor money on her family's wardrobe.
Can you source your claim it was taxpayer money?
You're right except that it was closer to 150k. Admittedly, quite a different story, but still far from conservative.
And what a waste of money it was.
To quote Matt Taibbi, Palin looks like she was dressed in a $19.95 Halloween costume labeled, "Chief Flight Attendant for a Piedmont Airlines trip from Winston Salem to Cleveland."
She's smart. Very smart. I dislike her as much as any other national politician, but I don't let your fear of her cloud your assessment.
Sarah Palin is very sly, not a bad schemer, and I'm sure she has some intelligent advisors, but calling her very smart is way too generous. I have never heard anything smart come out of her mouth. Granted I don't spend much time at all listening to her...
You don't come out of nowhere, do very well in all debates, do very well in all public appearances, and be a strong candidate for the next mock puppet president election without being smart. You say you've never heard anything smart come out of her mouth? She's done more with the opportunity that she's had than most everybody would have. You say she's "sly"? That's just a negative way of saying she's smart.
If she's not "smart," then nobody is "smart" in the ordinary sense of that word. You're doing what most people do - if you severely dislike somebody, you're unable to ascribe any positive attributes to that person. It's equivalent to claiming that Hitler was neither a good speaker nor charismatic. Silly, but understandable given most folks strong hatred of that particular monster.
How about actions speak louder than words? She failed to remove state sales taxes and eliminate state regulations during her term in office in Alaska.
Funny how you think that words mean more than actions. More critical thinking needed.
Where do pussies like you come from? Does this suprise anyone? Does anyone even care? This whole website is about the indisputable fact that the retards we have in office have crashed the system beyond repair. This isn't going to get fixed at the ballot box. The whole thing is going to come crashing down with or without the help of lone nuts. There will be blood. Get used to it.
Indeed....
"Violence in the land, ruler against ruler"
Right - so I suppose Markos "Screw 'em" Moulitsas doing the precise same "cross-hairs" thing back in June 2008 was a proverbial "no big deal". Right?
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/01/08/paul-krugman-blame...
Take a cue from your own pseudonym, asshole.
Nice try. Do you realize that the "bull's eye" drawing in that image was rendered by 'newsbusters', and that it did not appear in the original Daily Kos piece?
Actually, I did know that. I suppose that means you concede that Kos used the word "targeted", right?
So the only difference is the graphic icon.
Critical Thinking Fail on your part.
Erm, how can you possibly confuse this atrocitus, violence-inducing picture:
http://www.alan.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/sarahpac_0.jpg
From a gun-toting gal who frequently engaged in other gun and ammo visuals like "reload", with an everyday turn of phrase by Daily Kos, erm?
Don't you think that eventually, some day, someone might take her at her word?
Don't you think that eventually, some day, someone might take her at her word?
Seriously, do we know, at this point, that this nutcase even knows who is Sarah Palin? Or Glenn Beck?
I mean, a 22-year old pot-smoking, burning-a-flag-on-video kid who claims "The Communist Manefesto" is one of his all-time faves hardly fits the profile of a Palinista, Fox-news junkie, eh?
Hell, do we even know at this point that Giffords was actual the intended target? (unless you're taking the word of the hack local sheriff, who is basing that, at this point, on nothing more than his "feelings")
But here's the thing - having listened my whole life of nearly 45-years the propagandists on the left proclaim from the rooftops that any reduction in the rate of growth of government largess is directly equivalent to starving the poor and kicking granny out into the street so she can freeze to death, I'm more than a little sick and tired of hearing self-same leftists now complaining about "the coarsening of our rhetoric".
+1
Besides, looks like "cross-hairs on the face of a candidate" was already accepted campaign practice - as demonstrated in this example - from Arizona, no less - from 2006: http://minx.cc/?post=310441
You are clearly the one who's thinking is broken. You still think there is a meaningful difference between the Republicans and Democrats. Get off the MSM you boob.
Realized you were a troll when you posted this on the ADP numbers:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/adp-december-payrolls-297000-expectations-100000#comment-848946
Was going to respond at the time but figured it wasn't worth it. How did those numbers work out for ya.
Are they schizophrenic people too?
Wonderful how people can lash out medical diagnosis with little information. Including, if I am to believe what was written on this site, professionals.
Fear never thwarts danger. A danger might be present, you fearing it or not.
And one definitively does not need to be paranoid, schizophrenic, obsessed or mentally sick in any sort of way to constitute a danger.
i junked you because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about,
or you are paid by a bank.
come back after you have read at least one Ron Paul book.
Please do not do that to me, I've read enough inconsistent ramblings of him to not wish for more, really ...
Ron Paul does not offer an answer to various common-sense questions that arise out of the policies he is advocating. Until he and his supporters do not do that I cannot take them seriously.
So until he's being so dishonest I have no reason to take his policies seriously.
Hey shit for brains... It wasn't the gold standard that fucked everything up. It was overprinting just like they're doing today. They printed too much money, therefore the gold was "cheap," it made sense to exchange the dollars for gold because it was overprinted. Learn your fucking history.
I do not agree with monopolies but for the record when standard oil was in charge oil was pretty fucking cheap (even in real terms for the day). Why don't you show us on this graph where standard oil really fucked everyone: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Oil_Prices_1861_2007....
Where did you get that fairy tale from?
The US gold standard was abolished only in mid-1933, four years into the crash. By that time most of the damage has been done, unemployment was above 20%, thousands of banks have gone broke, the economy and GDP broke down, etc.
Up to that point the monetary base was coupled to the gold reserves the Fed had - i.e. mostly constant and slightly rising. In fact the monetary base shrunk during the nastiest phase of the crisis:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff90/AvaBrendan/KsarielIndicatorGreat...
So there was no 'printing of money' during the gold standard phase of the Great Depression - there was deflation - not even the most right-wing economists deny that.
FDR's money printing only started in late 1933.
I'm talking about when the abolished gold from the system completely in 1971. You are a lost cause.
No, the gold standard (which fixed the amount of dollars in circulation to the gold reserves) was abolished in early 1933 by the freshly elected FDR administration, via an executive order that outlawed the hoarding of goal for private citizens:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
The price of gold was fixed up to that point. After that the price of gold was raised in multiple steps, increasing the money supply.
What is wrong with you? You just refuse to learn... It was the easy money policies of the 20's that led to the Great Depression, pretty much the same as this time around.
The Gold Standard ended in 1971 last time I checked history. Start using your brain, you are hurting mine. There was deflation during Hoover's reign, just like there has been deflationary problems during this depression. That doesn't mean there wasn't serious money creation. It just means the banks that are completely over-leveraged had people trying to take their money out of what they identified as a broken system. Here read a small excerpt from Wikipedia concerning FDR's opinion of Hoover:
Roosevelt attacked Hoover for "reckless and extravagant" spending, of thinking "that we ought to center control of everything in Washington as rapidly as possible."[50] Roosevelt's running mate, John Nance Garner, accused the Republican of "leading the country down the path of socialism".[51]
Ironically, these policies pale beside the more drastic steps taken under Franklin D. Roosevelt's administration later as part of the New Deal. Hoover's opponents charge that his policies came too little, and too late, and did not work.
No, the gold standard effectively ended in 1933, when the US Government started raising the price of gold which was fixed up to that point. It was preceded by first confiscating privately hoarded gold (forcing that gold into dollars).
This had the effect of forcing those hoarded reserves out into the economy - in the view of owners of that cash it was better to invest it into something active than letting it inflate away via gold revaluations (which inflated the dollar).
That forced investment ignited the recovery - which, after a brief lapse around 1937 got into full swing with the massive government stimulus that started in 1940. (also called WWII.)
The rest is history, the US turned into a superpower.
Do you realize that the roaring twenties had the gold standard fully in place, and that it also had a republican president with an extreme deregulation policy at the helm?
And yes, easy credit certainly played a role - and that was not stopped at all by the gold standard.
What the gold standard made worse was the recovery: instead of letting it be a standard boom/bust cycle with a soft landing and a quick recovery, 1929 turned into a horror crash followed by years of deflation, all fueled by the gold standard.
That deflation and the recession was not limited to the US, it was also exported to much of the rest of the developed world. (Because those countries were lenders and the US started recalling those loans, triggering squeezes and contraction in those other countries.)
The main driving force of the depression was the rational but self-defeating wish of many americans and businesses to save. The gold standard and falling prices made existing savings more and more valuable - while consumption fell and GDP fell sharply. Few businesses saw reasons to increase investment.
That cycle of deflation was only broken once FDR injected both government stimulus spending (the New Deal) and broke the spell of gold: abolished the gold standard and inflated the dollar.
That is the success story after which the US and most of the rest of the world turned keynesian.
abolished the gold standard and inflated the dollar.
FDR's abolishing of the gold standard in 1933 resulted in an instant 41% depreciation of the dollar.
Never let the facts get in the way of your story.
I love how liberals think that gold is wealth, as if you can stick it in the ground and get food out. They never think about how people got gold (by providing their goods and services to society), or about the fact that sitting on gold only made other people's gold more valuable, as they had access to the real capital that they provided.
I also love how you claim that Ron Paul advocates a return to the gold standard when he emphatically does not, though he believes the gold standard was a superior system to the theft by inflation machine we have now. Paul wants competing currencies, meaning circulating gold and silver alongside federal reserve notes. This solves any possible problem that people like you have with the gold standard, as people in need of easy money cn simply use FRNs.
I addressed your monopoly nonsense earlier.
Freudian slip there?
Once again, more critical thinking needed.