This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Pima County Sheriff: "Loughner May Have Had An Accomplice"
Salon provides some unpleasant additional information on yesterday's headline news, which many had already suspected: namely that Loughner likely did not act alone. "Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said at a news conference in
Tucson on Saturday that authorities may have a photo of another suspect." Unfortunately, with a nation increasingly on edge, this possibility will likely turn out to be true. We can only hope that other like-minded individuals do not take this event as an escalation signal, and proceed to take vigilante "justice" into their own hands.
From Salon:
The Arizona sheriff helping investigate the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and others says the gunman may not have acted alone.
Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said at a news conference in Tucson on Saturday that authorities may have a photo of another suspect.
Dupnik says officials believe a suspect in custody may have come to the grocery store parking lot with another person, and that person was in some way involved.
Dupnik would offer no other information.
People familiar with the investigation have identified the suspected gunman being held as 22-year-old Jared Loughner.
Law enforcement officials also believe Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was the intended target of an armed attack in Tucson. Dupnik said at a Saturday evening news conference that "I don't have information about whether she was the first person shot, but yes, I believe she was the target."
The sheriff said Giffords was shot once in the head, and 18 other people were shot. Six are dead.
»
- 18322 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Sorry but Ron Paul is a gimp, he's never done anything useful, he dismisses 9/11 truthers off hand and he's boring as hell to listen to. Libertarians need a new idol.
Also I don't think libertarians really understand the economic policy they are supporting. They want a gold standard, which would increase the wealth gap monsterously. They want market deregulation like the IMF imposes on third world nations, "shock therapy" they call it, it doesn't work.
Fine with me. I had the foresight to buy gold. Everyone has to start somewhere. With a gold standard they can earn something that's worth something.
No disagreements on RP but he's the best we got. Beggars can't be choosy.
The "wealth gap" was declining under a gold standard, and started expanding again under the Federal Reserve.
Try again.
What I mean is that most gold is held by the oligarchs. If we return to the gold standard now most people will be destitute and the oligararchs will have a massive head start in consolidating there power, fiat currency isn't their only tool.
Do we really want the vatican to own 50% of the worlds currency? I feel that buying gold and then advocating a return to the gold standard is more about the prospect of personal gain then liberty for all.
Informed citizenry need to take back control of the central banks and use their ablility to create credit to revive the economy. Instead of bailing out the banks provide interest free loans to businesses that produce goods. Rebuild the infrastructure of the nation in massive public works projects creating jobs.
Subjecting ourselves to IMF shock therapy and "austerity measures" won't help, it will lead to disaster.
The gold standard was only in place up to 1933, so much of the past 100 years we have no reliable data on.
One thing is sure: the gold standard increased the wealth gap during the early phase of the Great Depression, 30-33. Think about it: prices were going down (deflation), unemployment went up massively (to above 20%), but hoarded gold had a fixed price in dollars - so it won in value again and again.
So the rich people who had gold (or had gold-fixed dollar accounts or cash) got richer and richer, in real terms. I.e. the wealth gap increased.
There is one consistent correlation/causation that is worth pointing out: the wealth gap got bigger with lower taxes. So the libertarian wish to eliminate much of taxation (or all of it?) does not bode well for the wealth gap ...
You do realize that we had a gold standard for 150 years prior to the Great Depression, right? You don't think it could have possibly been caused by something ELSE, do you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Act
Oh, there are certainly many other bad contractionary examples made worse by various forms of the gold standard, mostly in continental Europe.
The most recent, most prominent and most documented one is the Great Depression though, that's why there's such a natural focus on it.
It's also the example that shows the effects of abolishing the gold standard in the same economic cycle - in that regard it's certainly unique.
The gold standard was a "barbarous relic" that caused a lot of pain and suffering.
The overspending that has come from fiat currency will cause a thousand times more suffering than any gold standard ever did. Look to history for examples. The longest lasting fiat currency in history lasted for 50-60 years, depending on how you calculate it. The USD has been fully fiat for 40 years. Use of paper as currency does nothing but enable those with the power of the press to steal from holders of the currency.
The "suffering" under gold standards have come 100% from overspending by governments. The gold forces them to limit thier spending, meaning they must limit the amount they take from their population to what they can get away with taking in plain view. With fiat currency, they can take and take until it is all gone, at which point everyone starves.
But then, you want to protect guys who dump gasoline in rivers, so I guess you're just that particularly destructive kind of crazy that has infested our government.
FYI, the US dollar has been "fiat" for 77 years meanwhile.
What a sad story of becoming the superpower of the planet and of the USD turning into the reserve currency of the world! :-)
The first "fiat" printing of the US dollar happened via the 1934 Gold Reserve Act:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Gold_Reserve_Act
This act was enabled by the 1933 FDR presidential executive order 6102 which forced private citizens to sell thir gold for dollars. That gold was transported to Fort Knox and other locations.
The Gold Reserve Act raised the price of gold from $20.67 to $35 via government fiat. The resulting "profit" (i.e. dollars printed) allowed the government to fund the New Deal government spending.
That's a lie and you know it. We were on a gold exchange standard until 1971.
The flying money of Yuan China was the reserve currency of the world (east of modern day Turkey) for 60 years. They collapsed all the same, just like the rest of them.
The longest lasting government that circulated gold as currency, however, lasted for 1100 years, and only failed after they weakened said currency several times to fund military adventurism.
We don't need a gold standard or any other government enforced standard, what we need is money to be freely chosen upon by the people via everyday transactions. If they want their money stored as gold, fine; silver, fine, some state or private bank issued notes, fine. The point is that we should be free to choose our money and not have it given to us "by force" otherwise known as fiat!
If the Government didn't force people to transact in FRNs, we could choose our own money. I think that's what used to be called capitalism (before the name got taken over by this corporatist crap we have today). Same thing happened to Communism, the accepted definition of Communism today is best represented by the former USSR however, in reality, the former USSR has as much to do with Communism as our system does to Capitalism.
You misunderstand libertarians, Ponzi. They are obsessed with individual liberty.
Big government, communists and useless mouthpieces like you are just incidentally encountered along the way.
Ok, it was very funny. But I must admit it: I am a troll.
Don't take the first messages I posted seriously, please :D
Stop your fucking trolling. You are providing intellectual cover for statists.
I think we figured that out.
Too late now cowboy.
This was a pre-medidated attack on a member of CONgress. Some of the sheeple have had enough. This should be a wake up call.
in my opinion that is just sheepdipping to cast him like a libertarian, progressive, whatever...anti-establishment....i think he's a patsy. not 100% sure yet but ive looked into john patrick bedell and joseph a. stack and i think these people are controlled by intelligence or pentagon elements. created villians to control the people through their thoughts, fears and emotions.
remember lee harvey oswald...communist/anti communist also military and then going to russia...well here you have the same thing. military guy but also anti-establishment left for the right wingers, and he's a right winger for the left. perfect little tool to keep everyone scared in their little boxes.
Why can't the world have more people like you...? In a sea of idiots here at least somebody is thinking.
He never actually got in to the military.
Why is ZH obsessed with this topic?
There's not much to talk about on weekends.
The young man clearly went insane ... Or to rephrase, I'm not sure that "clearly" describes insanity correctly so maybe I should say that he was clearly not sane ...
Any innocent life lost is tragic and this event was a tragedy. A libertarian viewpoint however is not insane. I would beg to ask why there was no protector of the 2nd amendment in the crowd who was capable enough to free this lost individual from his delusions quickly and forefully with several rounds.
As a citizen, do you not bear responsibility for other's folly? And should you not be prepared?
When Colin Ferguson gunned down a train full of innocent commuters, the end result was a widow who took it upon herself to crusade against 2nd amendment rights. Better if the train carriage had been fully armed and trained. As it would have been in Arizona. The police will arrive to mark out a crime scene. They cannot protect you.
Why didn't your mass medias talk about this?
In my humble opinion, it is far worse and horrible than a gun shooting.
MASS GENOCIDE IN RWANDA, PEOPLE BURNT ALIVE (February 2010)
Very shocking and disgusting pictures, do not watch them if you have something in your stomach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70KpPL62PkU
I'm still waiting for the CNN headlines, the candles, the hypocritical crying...
OK I guess I am missing the connection between wanting to follow the Constitution and/or have limited government and mass shootings. Communists and other lefties are responsible for over 50 million dead in the last century, including literally countless mass executions in Russia, China, Cambodia, Cuba, etc.
and what look like fascist, nazi, warlord, military-industrial corporate empire governments killed millions too (more lately). doesn't clarify much. your first point is far more salient: constitutionalism and limited government don't really connect with mass murder, other than making it less likely that government would perpetrate murder.
putting more responsibility on the individual means, to me, that one's acts must be measured against something like universal truths (to the degree one can discern them) about right behavior. if one adopts the authoritarian stance then whatever good or evil the authorities come up with is what is accepted. and lately (last decade) it's been nearly unrelenting evil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Logical_fallacies
Try to have fewer of these in your posts and this website will be a better place.
Not professional. Progressive acting out, emotionally unstable, needing attention, and possible gay activist, the "BOYBLUE" of the Daily Kos who posted disturbing things might well be Jared Loughlin.
Daily Kos site was scrubbed fast; link to a screen grab below. Apparently, he lived at the Daily Kos, in Tucson, AZ, just around the corner from the grocery store.
Looking for possible 2nd suspect, described as a 50 year man (lover?) driving away in car.
http://americanpatriotscommission.files.wordpress...
.
According to a current diary on DKos...
It seems that a diary was posted in the past week by someone who was upset at Rep. Giffords for voting for Rep. Lewis for Speaker of the House. The person entitled their diary: My Congresswoman voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is Now Dead to Me! The diary contained no threats of violence, no gun sites, no Sarah Palin-like 'reload' language. Other than the title, the harshest remarks were something to the effect of no longer being a volunteer for Rep. Giffords.
Of course, I'm sure the FBI is already grilling the guy. The user has many other past diaries still online and viewable.
Well, if this is the same guy, he washed his mouth out with buckshot last summer, but the suicide attempt was unsuccessful. Add brain damage to the potential explanatory factors.
Hey, lots of opportunity here for every faction to exploit this guy as the personification of various putative evils and a representative of their constituencies, but really, how about just fucking nuts as a necessary and sufficient explanation?
So according to this logic, we should ban Youtube, MySpace and/or Facebook and other conduits that disseminate the views of a deranged mind, no matter what mantle they cloak themselves under.
The guy had The Communist Manifesto as one of his preferred books.
TheGreatPonzi why dont you say anything about the fact that Loughner was a communist?
The book selection really doesn't say much to me. The Communist Manifesto is one of the books in my kids' conservative Catholic homeschooling curriculum. We have a lot of "interesting" books on our shelves simply because you cannot argue against something that you haven't taken the time to analyze.
Sound like Kennedy Catholics or those pro-abortion Notre Dame Catholics who give awards to politicians who support partial birth abortion. Just let your kids read Frank Rich in the NY Times. Same agenda as The Communist Manifesto.
This kid was a dope smoker with two convictions and his reading list was not conservative. No sign of Wealth of Nations or anything by Adams, Paine, Jefferson, Franklin et al?
Libertarians, gun-toting or not, are not the problem and you know it! Xenophobic fascists, paranoid nut-jobs, website Trolls making sweeping generalizations, and Liberal/Socialists that feel justified in "taking" Peter's property and giving it to Paul (because he "deserves" it) -- those are the people that are causing trouble! I, for one, am fairly certain which category you fall into: Some combination of all the above (with exception to being a Libertarian, that is!)
Ponzi, who said this whacked-out idiot killer was a Libertarian, the liberal media, perhaps?
Sickening how fast the nanny-state retarded Democraps started politicizing this tragedy.
Ponzi: a true Libertarian is about being in control of your own life as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.
Has anyone noticed how every single group has painted this guy as a member of whichever group they have a problem with.
Libertarians are the only "group" that is inherently peaceful. The rest demand and get at least some form of systematic violence against the world and its people.
Bingo. Cynically predictable, but still sad to see. Guilt by alleged association is so convenient.
So Ponz... are you that stupid or just willfully lying? A "libertarian" - do you not know anything about the boy or libertarians??
His favorite books included "Mein Kampf" and "A Communist Manifesto" - his video site had him dressing up as a muslim destroying the American flag. He was a regular on the Daily Koz site... he was among the many angst filled liberals/socialists, nothinng liberterian there...
Funny how all the idiots here jump on that line and run with it. You did a good job leading them to the cliff... kudos.
+1 The kid was also an avid dope smoker with two arrests. The army refused to take him in.
In the past 24 hours this guy has been labeled everything while people scramble to try and understand this tragedy and make the motives fit within their own belief system. Right wing, left wing, libertarian, communist, Afghan vet, high school dropout, musician, campaign contributor, pot smoker, loner, gay, Pelosi lover, gold bug, schizoid (did I miss anything?)
I blame sneaker manufacturers and their workers. Most crimes (violent or otherwise) are committed by people wearing sneakers. It can't possibly be the fault of the actual person committing the atrocity.
(yes massive sarcasm for those with no sarcasm meter).
The guy is a psycho, and he quite clearly passed through all kinds of political ideals, so whatever. As far as CONgress goes, however, if they don't stop acting only in the best interest of the bankers, we Americans should be blowing them away.
"The sheriff said Giffords was shot once in the head, and 18 other people were shot. Six are dead"
20 bullets in the magazine, 19 wounded. Sounds like a professional job to me. Can really a schizoid guy perform this?
Why don't you go to a range and take a class?
That way you will know what you can do and compare it to all these infamous assassins.
Can a schizoid guy play a masterful game of chess?
Yes, and he might even win, but it won't improve his ELO score because his opponent will be imaginary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFnvRiFTcYg
A professional doesn't shoot a 9 year old kid.
On what ground? If professionals do not shoot kids, that leaves very few professionals in the world. And probably not the best.
seems to me that if one is in the middle of a crowd which, at first shot, lies down (new accounts) it wouldn't be that hard to wound someone with most of the bullets. now if there were 19 kills out of twenty bullets that would speak of professionalism.
as far as the dead child, i'm reminded of the answer to the first thing a soldier feels when he shoots a civilian: the weapon's recoil.
imo it is the professionalization of murder that makes killing children in mass numbers more likely. that's why i think the u.s. needs more libertarianism now rather than more authoritarianism.
You are confusing "Leon" with real life.
Not professional. Acting out, emotionally unstable needing attention and possible gay activist, BOYBLUE Jared Loughlin.
Daily Kos site is scrubbed, link to a screen grab below. Apparently, he lived at the Daily Kos, in Tucson, AZ, just around the corner from the grocery store.
Looking for possible 2nd suspect, described as a 50 year man (lover?) driving away in car.
http://americanpatriotscommission.files.wordpress...
.
You'd Like to get his name right....won't you?
LoughNER.
A blindfolded shooter in a crowd with a 20 rnd clip would probably hit as many- or close enough
What if it was a 33 round magazine?
It was his handler.
The subliminal mind fuck America ...
"Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik stated that the suspect had a YouTube channel under an account called "ClassItUp10",[29][30][31] which states among other things that some of Loughner's favorite books are Mein Kampf, We the Living, Plato's Republic and the Communist Manifesto; one video told viewers, "You don't have to accept the federalist laws", called for a return to the gold standard, and accused the government of mind-controlling and brainwashing the citizenry.[24][31]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner
I'm glad Wikipedia is telling the truth on the relation between wishing a gold standard and psychopathy.
Please wander up to my digs when you are in need sometime.
I'll be ready to happily braid your nose hair into the hair surrounding my asshole...
Bring your buddy the ersatz wanger too... He can gape you while you deep breathe.
In the USSR, anti-communists were placed in psychiatric asylums.
We should do the same with some libertarians on ZH, they are dangerous for themselves and for the society.
That wouldn't be a bad idea at all. People who talk all day long about silver manipulation, JPM shorts or dollar debasement instead of buying the dip have a serious mental problem.
Lemme know when you want that address...
Lemme know when you want that address...
I'd love for you to show up at my door to "put me away".
Somehow I don't think it would work out quite the way you imagine. It would be a good day none the less.
Can I troll, too?
Why not?
I am drunk as shit and ready to have some fun with Che the Ponzi Monki-Boi.
He's lucky I don't live within 400M of him... He'd be ducking right now.
If you are that motived, dont let this kind of details detter you. Transportation is quite cheap these days this era.
I'm in no hurry. Due Dilligence must be done before a plan can be put together.
Once I have the needed information, I will decide what course of action is most appropriate.
Perhaps I will wait until I have another job in the target area to attend to.
Can I make a tax deductable donation to this cause?
You can tip me after the fact.
I got an idea... Why dont you give me your name and I can visit you.
200 West Street 29th Floor
New York, NY 10282
United States
+lol
haha.
I won't do your dirty deeds that cheap tardo.
But I might do you for gratis.
Is left wing site DAILY KOS's "BOYBLUE" Jared Loughlin? Sure sounds like he is and DK scrubbed his ramblings from January 7th 2011 from their site pronto. Check out the link to the screen grab below. This is about all you can find anymore. Looks like Krugman owes everybody a face palm.
http://americanpatriotscommission.files.wordpress...
Why did DAILY KOS take down/scrub BOYBLUE so fast? BOYBLUE posts are lucid, but all over the map and contradictory and disturbing: says he was married but is gay; he had attempted suicide by gunshot and only managed to mangle his mouth; gave and raised thousands for Gifford's campaign, but is on severance from his job and public dole -- but is also says he is a lawyer; 'BoyBlue' admits to living in Tucson area; just found out Giffords is a moderate who voted against "his girl Pelosi" for house majority leader. Chillingly, BLUEBOY says after the vote against Pelosi, Jan 7th, 2011 one day before the shooting -- Giffords "Is Dead to me."
Yes, none of BOYBLUE's ramblings really make sense which is consistent with a nut job. A left wing nut job who lives at the DAILY KOS, in Tucson, AZ around the corner from the grocery store.
And, you know somethings up when Pelosi's temporary new HQ is inside a church for photo-ops invoking God and being prayerful, and saying funny religious things like those vile conservatives. Krugman should be following Pelosi's lead, she's the politician.
.
I live in Paradise Valley, AZ. It's a nice place to live with lots of good people.
And you're wrong. BOYBLUE is Jesse Kelly, who is a total lunatic fringe.
Loughner is NOT Loughlin.
LeBalance, I've seen several different names attributed to the killer.
Loughner, Laughner, Loughlin ... no shit, google it, even seen several variations here at ZH.
good idea stalin!
It amazes me that people look at him reading the Communist Manifesto and assume he is a communist. Are people so weak minded that the are assumed to 'be' whatever they have read? He may have read it and came to the conclusion it was a crock of crap. You should always read the oppositions material to be able to refute it.
His YouTube profile said that "The Communist Manifesto" (along with "Mein Kampf") was one of his favorite books, not merely that he read it.
If you know your history, you know that these philosophies were opposed: he can't be both a communist and a Nazi.
To quote Dire Straits: "Two men say they're Jesus... one of them must be wrong."
You also need to focus on winning a Darwin award.
So tragic with the innocents shot ... But already looking like another case (JFK, MLK, RFK, Senator Wellstone ...) where for years ahead the 'official' story may seem implausible, and we may never know:
Did the authorities know about this shooting in advance, but allow it to happen anyway, in order to justify more US fascist laws and fascist enforcement ? ...
Is a goal of this shooting, to help terrorise other people in Congress and government, about what can happen to them if they don't behave? ... I bet the other Congress people are already intimidated, even if not voicing their 'conspiracy' inclinations.
Obama himself must wonder sometimes if he is on 'the list', regardless of what he does. He's becoming fairly useless to the oligarchs otherwise, and Obama must realise his overlords can target him for their purpose, when he is of more value dead ...
Just like Obama himself approves the assassination of others ... Obama authorising executive murder of US citizens ... Obama supervising the killing all those innocent women and children with the US drone planes in Afghanistan and Pakistan and Iraq.
A US federal judge, John Roll, was killed there in this mass shooting ... was he the real target? In the USA the federal judges have much more power than a Congress person, they are the people actually enacting crimes on a large scale, jailing the innocent, helping oligarchs to steal money.
It seems the judges make all the big US crimes possible by ignoring people's rights and the US Constitution ... yet popular heat is directed by the media away from them, toward the Congress or the White House ... though it's the US judges who hold the instant power to stop nearly every kind of ongoing US crime.
If Judge John Roll was the real target, the US media may well be hiding that. It seems the USA is more desperate than anything, to hide the corrupt role of the judges, and the kind of anger that exists among people who are, or who know, victims of the US judges.
Direct murder of US judges has been happening for some time:
« Americans Murdering Their Judges, and the US Crisis of Judicial Corruption »
http://www.banned-in-america.net/americans-murdering-their-judges.html
Totally possible the guy was a patsy of some sort.
Hm so a sort of night of long knives 2.0 ... Interesting theory
From what I gathered, this woman way to perform politics was detached from reality.
She somehow thought of herself as performing in a fair and balanced way, spreading justice. She did not perceive herself as one organizing tensions between various groups and distributing favours here and there to better her station in society.
Which led her to adopt an intimate approach to the population, thinking that her political decisions could not call for a back lash.
Reality can be a nasty mother sometimes.
John Roll had no business being at a public political event. Federal judges are supposed to avoid any partisan politics or public politicing outside of a very private personal right to vote. If he wanted to visit his friend the Congresswoman he should have done so where his presense can't be seen as an endorsement. They have houses or can meet in a restaurant. If he has made a habit of that he's have had to recuse himself from any case touching upon her politics. Too bad he wasn't carefully keeping himself clear of taint because he'd be alive today.
Awesome point. I missed that. Shame on me. What was the guy doing there?
I don't understand. Has she passed away?
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=485459383434
Can someone explain this facebook page?
it is a facebook page†
The number of libertarians who would include the Communist Manifesto among their favorite books is zero.
Also, libertarians are more liberal than liberals. Even conservatives are more liberal than liberals.
http://www.endofinnocence.com/2010/08/more-liberal-than-liberals.html
Yeah, I noticed that Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin's books were not listed among his favorites. People who use this event to generate hate against right-wing media personalities are assholes.
The guy is into classics, not populistic literrature.
Classics? LOL! The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf are classics? Maybe for Libs and dope smoking ones like this kid. No sign of Wealth of Nations, Federalist Papers or doznes of real classics.
BTW what is "populistic literrature"?
Do you mean populist literature?
He is 21 or 22. At that age, I may have listed the Communist Manifesto as well as Atlas Shrugged as favorites. I did read both when I was young along with all the Herman Hesse novels. And 1984, Animal Farm, some Thomas Pynchon, V. S. Naipaul and others.
I would not read too much into his fav books.
hush. now you're just confusing him.
bonnie and clyde, bitchez 2011
just buy the fucking D I P †
Another campaign against het by Jesse Kelly:
http://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/23817848610627584
In the video, Loughner makes a rambling mention of "MEPS in Phoenix" a reference to the Military Entrance Processing Station in the state capital that all Arizona recruits from every branch of service pass through before leaving for basic training.
http://www.legitgov.org/Jared-Loughner-United-States-Military-recruit-ME...
The Army provided this statement:
"The Army has confirmed that the suspect was never in the Army. He attempted to enlist in the Army but was rejected for service. In accordance with the Privacy Act, we will not discuss why he was rejected."
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/08/shooting-suspects-apparent-youtube-video/#ixzz1AXQY5pGf
In accordance with the Privacy Act, we will not discuss why he was rejected.
Which is, among other things, a polite way of saying "he was rejected because he was nuts".
I heard on the radio that Loughner couldn't get past the urinalysis.
The kid is a big dope smoker. He was busted twice. Some people have said his mother may have intervened to get the charges dropped. She works for a govt agency.
-- yeah, know some big dope smokers, but not anyone you would know, mainly because they are college professors, doctors, lawyers, prominent businessmen, pillars of the community.
Thanks to physionomist skills, it is rather easy to tell that the chap in the picture suffers from schizophrenia and paranoia. Darkness in his look, implantation of hair, angle chosen to take the shot...
You decry an escalation in 'Vigilante justice', the only possible way out of the dismal world a few hundred people in New York and London created for the masses?
You are dead wrong on this.
A fast and furious escalation is the one answer to all our prayers for a re-ordering of the world order. But the vigilantes must select far more important men and women whose names are very well known by now to practically everyone who has been paying attention.
This is sarcasm, right?
Yet it is probably people like you that decry "evil government regulation" that could have prevented the "few hundred people in NY and London" from getting away with their BS. Why dont you give some credit where credit is due... Georgie W. with his gutting of S.E.C. compliance
You sir, are a fucking moron. The people in NY and London could have been and should have been, arrested, presecuted and jailed under current fraud laws. The CDO mess was fraud, plain and simple. Any idiot should be able to see that. Also look up the flap about judge painter and the CTFC. The current regulations and laws are not enforced both purposely and by sheer incompetence. There is absolutely NO reason to think that any new regulations would have been enforced. Look how long it took them to catch madoff despite NUMEROUS tips to the SEC over the years.
What are you talking about?
I've said nothing about regulations, new or otherwise.
I may well be a fucking moron, at least the first half of that is definitely true. And I have made some moronic moves in my life. I'll give you that.
But you, ma'am, cannot read.
Partisan bickering is the surest sign of incomplete understanding of the situation. The folks running the show use government regulation to their advantage. The conservative idiots think that regulation is bad for business. It is, but only small business. It's great for big business. The leftist idiots think regulation is the key to controlling corporate misbehavior. It is, but only if regulation is enacted and enforced by those not under the thumb of corporation - it's not.
IIf there was a stupidity competition, I'm not sure who I'd support - the idiots who think Bush was an answer or the idiots who think Obama is an answer.
You rock.
The number of people who understand the big picture and true nature of the game is quite limited. Out of the box, the great mass of men simply have no idea of the real construct in which they live. As such, they really aren't that different from our domesticated pets which need to be kept fed & amused. Then we have 5-10% who are politically aware, but tend to fall for the traditional, yet false right v left dichotomy.
Finally, we have a small group of people who are actually able to survey the field from a broader, macro viewpoint that brings many seemingly disparate elements into sharp focus. Amongst these, however, we have the evil doers who are actually initiating & controlling events vs those trying to share/communicate reality to others.
The problem with being a communicator is that one is sorely tempted to just join in with the looters. I mean, why should we care about the 90% who are utterly clueless? Is it because of family connections? What about the 5-10% who are aware, but their understanding is incomplete? Will they learn? Again, why should we care?
It's easy to see why history follows very consistent patterns. Unless the great mass wake up, the small number of people who "get it" are ultimately corrupted by the evil doers and eventually they themselves become ready accomplishes to ripping off the sheep. In these types of situations, the terror only increases. It takes a true break to re-instill some faith that the sheep are even worth the effort of saving.
The vast majority of the population is going from point A to point B and will never be affected by what you do. Therefore they can not be "saved" and in fact are destined for point B so the word "save" is nonsensical.
What agenda are you applying to these folks? One that thinks you know better and that intervening in their ride to point B is somehow a productive use of your time and theirs as well.
In the end they are going to point B, the world will continue on with its teaching of the folks upon it and it is your decision to accept a diverse number of equally relevant pathways (or points B) or to say that only yours is right and you "have" to "save" everyone.
Take care.
Why did the Founding Fathers help save the sheep of their respective era? Sure, they designed a system that ultimately benefited primarily their class & themselves. But, why did they bother debating and incorporating entire philosophical constructs of human rights into the founding documents?
I think the vast majority of those who read & study both the founding documents and the background papers take away an impression that they actually cared. Why? Perhaps they believed that if the sheep could be led, then they would have an even greater role & influence in the public sphere.
Consider the current state of our power-elite: rather than admiration, they are loathed; rather than safe, they are surrounded by a wall of security. Does this not appear to be a political opportunity for a charismatic leader who will help reverse this situation? Can you see this will ultimately be the outcome?
So the big question then is: how does one arbitrage the coming paradigm shift?
This is an official, "Unjunk".
She is clueless and on her way like a comet to point b.
B9K9 - Good insight. I agree. I've many times wondered to myself what would be the point in trying to help people understand how to be free. It only took 200 or so years for America to get from promising new start to forboding end in sight. People are biologically condemned to become complacent as soon as things become bearable after the revolution.
Trying to help make things "better" is a suicide mission, because, even if you're successful, any gains will be returned to the banker/elite types within a short period of time after you have spilled your blood.
This is to 'unjunk' you.
Whoever did it, has the iq of an amoeba.
Who do you think writes those regulations? Come on, you're smarter than that, aren't you?
You probably make a lot of wrong assumptions in life, generally. You might want to revisit your logic 101 courses before sitting down to a keyboard and broadcasting your ignorance.
Like there aren't enough regs to put Paulson, Geithner, Cox, Cassano, Blankfein, and many others in jail (with all due process of course to make some more lawyers wealthy).
My post has nothing to do with regulations. It is about justice, severely dealt out, for once.
Insanity.
I have heard in more than one article they have a total of 3 in custody. Sorry to not have a link...
Statist Republicans hate Palin.
Statist Democrats hate Palin.
The MFM hates Palin.
If all those people I despise are against her, she must be pretty damned awesome. You've piqued my interest. I think I'll go and see if I can't support her, after all.
You should consider that TPTB is observing these rants, & has recognized that their statist politicians have been identified by the lower strata. This is a threat to the success of the progression of the corporate takeover. So to counter, TPTB creates a new 'anti-establishment' politico that's gonna come to the rescue... But sadly it's just more of the same. Such is Sarah Palin.
Sure we constantly hear/read about how this Sarah Palin is a maverick, & how the Ds & Rs don't know what to do with her... That's all bullshit. It's a fucking PR job. If you buy it... well, congratulations! You've been successfully marketed!
The real test is whether or not the candidate/personality gets MSM air time. If they do, they're dirty. Simple as that
(edit)
Perhaps there are a few rare exceptions, including the llikes of Ron Paul DO that get a modest amount of MSM coverage. But this select group only grudgingly gets any MSM air time (due to staying power in the case of Dr. Paul) because MSM does not want to answer charges of censorship.
Ron Paul MSM censorship:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ron+paul+censored&aq=0
Forget about Sarah Palin. RP is the real mccoy. He's the one TPTB really do not want around.
+1
"Take back our country" from those evil-doers who were democratically elected, Crosshairs on maps, calling the president a Marxists etc.. all rallying cries for the sub 100 IQ wingnuts listening to Rush, Beck, Hannity etc.. All the while these celeb talking heads laugh all the way to the bank promoting ideology that certainly doesnt benefit their sub 100 IQ wingnut listener/supporters... Fun times in the US of A
The Ivy League Elite have such a great track record.
The shooter is a "real Amerikan" (as Palin would call him). From a small town, dislikes government, loves guns.
"dislikes government, loves guns."
What's the problem with that. Sounds good to me.
--------------
gifford was the only real target...see what happens now in DC
There are risks to being a politician in corrupt governments like those in the United States, Haiti, or Zimbabwe.
A little perspective:
By SERGIO FLORES, Associated Press Sergio Flores, Associated Press – 2 hrs 3 mins agoACAPULCO, Mexico – The image of this beach mecca has taken a new hit from Mexico's drug violence, with 27 people killed in less than a day, including 14 men whose bodies were found with their heads chopped off at a shopping center.
Better hope that those heads don't end up in the tamales you buy from the roadside vendor. Wait until that drug war immigrates to the U.S. Hopefully to set up shop in Washington D.C.
I thought those tacos tasted too much like pork.
At least I didn't drink the water.
18 shot yet she was the "target".
Maybe the Judge killed was the target...maybe he convicted the boy's mate last week?
Typical American posting here...jump to a conclusion, shoot and worry about the rights and wrongs later.
Maybe when we see some FACTS, a discussion about his motive will be in order...he IS alive after all.
Typical non-American posting. Reasonable sheep you are. Maybe if the Euros could muster a little irrational response on occassion you wouldn't live in such pathetic nanny states. Do you live in one of the countries in which it is a crime to speak freely about the events of WWII?
"Maybe if the Euros could muster a little irrational response on occassion you wouldn't live in such pathetic nanny states."
That comment is completely indefensible.
Please write a 4,000 word thesis comparing the level of internal violence and confrontation in peripheral and core European Union countries over the last year to that in the United States. You may only have to page back through posts on ZH itself to get a very good place to start.
Like Greece, France, Ireland, and Britian, and then you could branch out.
Spotty violence in Greece is not material. What matters in the perceived norm. I have met many Europeans, but I have yet to meet a European who wasn't a socialist who believed, in earnest, that the government was a solution to most of what ails humankind.
The US state has been from the start a Nanny State, handing out stuff to its citizens. The denial by US citizens is so huge on that point... Get a grip.
I wrote nothing about the U.S. and whether it was or wasn't a nanny state. How odd for you to comment on the U.S. in response to my comment on the EU.
Odder than answering
to a comment on the US?
America has no system of healthcare for the mentally ill. They are in prisons, or homeless in the streets, thanks to Reagan's dismantling of the psychiatric healthcare system.
This man had at least one run-in with the law already. This could have been prevented if he had been under the care of doctors or in an institution since then.
I've heard alot about liberals vs conservatives, and libertarians, and gun control. The two are somewhat related, because you cant have a bunch of crazy people running loose in a right to carry state.
This is not a political or gun control issue, its a mental health issue.
In 1977, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that involuntary hospitalization and/or treatment violates an individual's civil rights in O'Connor v. Donaldson. This ruling forced individual states to change their statutes. For example, the individual must be exhibiting behavior that is a danger to himself or others in order to be held, the hold must be for evaluation only and a court order must be received for more than very short term treatment or hospitalization (typically no longer than 72 hours). This ruling has severely limited involuntary treatment and hospitalization in the U.S.
Do you all at least get paid to tell these lies?
" and/or treatment"
There is no treatment available for mental illnesses. Just drugs that reduce the symptoms. Therefore, using the word "treatment" is a fallacy.
You don't believe me? Ask a psychiatrist.
seems like you are confusing treatment and cure.
The etymology of treatment comes from the French "traitement", which is very, very close to "cure" in French.
If you want to talk about drugs that do not cure, talk about prescription or chemical camisole.
Is anyone here French? No? Then perhaps you ought to use the English definition?
Now go away before I taunt you another time!
I don't understand your point. Looks like you cut and pasted from Wikipedia, and then said I was lying. What lies specifically?
Those folks were cut loose by court order. Not evil Reagan policies.