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Plutonium Found In Fukushima, TEPCO Executive Says "Radioactive Substance Shouldn’t Have Any Impact On Human Health"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Shit just got real. The spin? It is not harmful to human health. Oh really? We can't wait for Kan to eat some plutonium on national TV to confirm this. In the meantime we await the retraction from TEPCO claiming they made a mistake and they really meant platinum not plutonium.

From Kyodo:

Plutonium has been detected in soil at five locations at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Monday.

The operator of the nuclear complex said that the plutonium is believed to have been discharged from nuclear fuel at the plant, which was damaged by the devastating March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

While noting that the concentration level does not pose a risk to human health, the utility firm said it will strengthen monitoring on the environment in and around the nuclear plant.

Meanwhile, high levels of radiation exceeding 1,000 millisieverts per hour have been detected in water in a trench outside the No. 2 reactor's building at the nuclear plant, with the contaminated water suspected to have come from the reactor's core, where fuel rods have partially melted, authorities said Monday.

The government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said the electric power company, known as TEPCO, is expected to pump out similarly highly contaminated water that has been building up in the basement of the No. 2 reactor's turbine building, which is connected to the trench, to eventually remove the water.

The company said the high radiation level in water in the trench connected to the No. 2 complex was detected Sunday, adding that the radiation level in the air in the trench stood at 100 to 300 millisieverts.

At a radiation level of 1,000 millisieverts per hour, people could suffer a decrease in the number of lymphocytes -- a type of white blood cell -- in just 30 minutes, and half could die within 30 days by remaining in such conditions for four hours.

TEPCO also found Sunday afternoon that the radiation level at the surface of the trench water adjacent to the No. 1 complex was 0.4 millisievert per hour. But it could not measure the level at the gutter linked to the No. 3 unit as rubble prevented the firm from checking it, the company added.

Although it remains unknown whether the contaminated water has flowed into the sea from the trenches that are 55 to 70 meters away from the shore, TEPCO suspects the high concentration of radioactive substances found in seawater near the plant reactors' drainage outlets may be linked to the trench water.

Earlier in the day, the nuclear agency said radioactive iodine-131 at a concentration 1,150 times the maximum allowable level was detected Sunday in a seawater sample taken around 1.5 kilometers north of the drainage outlets of the troubled No. 1-4 reactors.

Haruki Madarame, chairman of the Nuclear Safety Commission of Japan, a government panel, told reporters he is ''very worried'' about the high-level radiation detected in water in the trenches, which is outside the radiation-controlled area set by TEPCO.

Reuters confirms that this was merely yet another cover up:

Plutonium has been found in soil at various points within Japan's stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex but does not present a risk to human health, operator Tokyo Electric Power Co <9501.T> (TEPCO) said on Monday.

TEPCO vice-president Sakae Muto told journalists at the company's latest briefing that test results showing the plutonium came from samples taken a week ago.

It was the latest bad news from the plant, where evidence of radiation has been mounting and engineers face a protracted battle to control reactors damaged by an earthquake and tsunami on March 11.

From Bloomberg:

March 28 (Bloomberg) -- Tokyo Electric Power Co. found plutonium contamination in soil near the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear plant that was tested, Sakae Muto, vice president at plant operator, said at a press conference shown on a webcast today.

The plutonium probably came after the accident at the reactors following Japan’s strongest earthquake and tsunami, he said. The radioactive substance shouldn’t have any impact on human health, he said.

Fear not: TEPCO will bravely continue to sacrifice its workers even after this discovery. Per Reuters:

The discovery of plutonium at five places within
Japan's damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex will not cause work
there to be suspended, plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co said on
Tuesday.

Attached is a report from the ANS on why this discovery means that Reactor 3 is compromised.

 

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Mon, 03/28/2011 - 10:59 | 1108586 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Ummm...so what is the bullish thesis...anyone...Beuller....Beuller....?

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:02 | 1108607 umop episdn
umop episdn's picture

If the Pu is on the ground, then it can't be in the reactor! We're saved!

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:08 | 1108645 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Nice...right.  Because plutonium in a broken reactor is bad, bad mojo.  But that is only half of the bullish case.  

Plutonium on the ground is better...because...ummm...because...???

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:15 | 1108682 Thomas
Thomas's picture

I think we will start seeing stories about its nutritional value.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:20 | 1108727 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Because it is already priced in... ;-)

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:29 | 1108765 Don Birnam
Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:03 | 1108913 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Waiting patiently for some official to suggest we should just push this entire stinking mess into the sea and let the fish deal with it. After all, it's such a small nuclear plant and such a big ocean.

Somewhere over the neutron beam rainbow

Way up high

There's a land that I heard of that's free of plutonium

Once in a lullaby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhzbzwPNgXA

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:20 | 1108993 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

I'm waiting for "glow in the dark" (GITD) sushi to become a Japanese consumer fad...

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:30 | 1108994 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Shorting some now, short some later...  BUT!

Note that this coincides exactly with the OSE raising their margin almost 4 times... 

(Directly from IBKR.) 

Careful guys, time to manage your margins carefully.  Good luck!

 

To OSE.JPN,TSEJ traders:

Mon Mar 28 03:02:42 2011 EST

 

Further to our bulletin sent last week, please note that N225 contracts on Osaka Securities Exchange (OSE.JPN) will have margin significantly increased with SPAN margin parameters increased from JPY 270,000 / contract to JPY 990,000 / contract. TOPX contracts on Tokyo Stock Exchange (TSEJ) will have SPAN margin parameters increased from JPY195,000 / contract to JPY690,000/contract. The changes are expected to be effective in customer accounts from tomorrow's open (29 Mar 11). As such please manage your positions accordingly. For details regarding the increase, please refer to the following links from OSE.JPN and Japan Securities Clearing Corporation (JSCC) website:

 

http://www.ose.or.jp/e/market/about_trading/span_parameter_setting

http://www.jscc.co.jp/en/futures/span_data.html 

 

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:48 | 1109875 malikai
malikai's picture

I'm just going to jump in here with a little tidbit from the wikipedia. This information can also be validated on FAS.

The result was that in the Fat Man bomb, about 1 kilogram (2.2 lb) of the 6.2 kilograms (14 lb) of plutonium in the pit (about 17%) fissioned

This means that from that detonation alone, 4kg(8.8lbs) of plutonium were NOT fissioned and were released into the atmosphere. Should we all run for the hills because of this OMFG PLUTONIUM?!@?@E! from 65 years ago?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Man

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:34 | 1110035 BigJim
BigJim's picture

So how many kilograms of the stuff are there at Fukushima, I wonder? 40 years of spent fuel rods, some new(ish) MOX fuel at Reactor 3... Obviously, not all the stuff at Fukushima is in harms way. But it looks like none of the spent fuel pools in reactors 1 to 4 are doing their job and keeping their rods chilled.

I'm not sure I'd advocate running to the hills anyway - last I heard, that wouldn't protect you from plutonium.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:35 | 1109051 Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

CD, the fish haven't a chance...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTGMc-QPBlw

...classic Harryhausen.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:34 | 1109064 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The beast, the beast, the beast from Fukushima.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:56 | 1109444 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

When this finally ends months from now that is how they'll end it.  It will all go into the sea.  Maybe they'll spray a little corexit on it just to be safe.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:09 | 1109735 patience...
patience...'s picture

Months doubtful, years probably

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:03 | 1108918 franzpick
franzpick's picture

Won't rain wash that soil contamination out to sea? However, tuna and other fish with any 'Pu' smell should be discarded.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:35 | 1108797 dogismyth
dogismyth's picture

its a nutritional building block for the degradation of DNA and ultimate reversion back to reptilian DNA.  yes...we are all cold-blooded lizards!!

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:38 | 1108817 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Shit just got real is correct. May I suggest a cocktail?

 

Plutonium


mehr
Longdrink
  Ice Cubes
Shaker
Strainer
Tumbler   4  cl  Gin (Gordon) 3  cl  Zitronensaft (Pulco) 1  cl  Curaçao Blue (BOLS) 6  cl  Maracujasaft (Granini) 2  cl  Apricot Brandy (BOLS) 2  cl  Wodka (Smirrnoff)

 

Gin-Cocktail für Gin-Liebhaber. Danke FALK !!!

Alle Zutaten mit Eiswürfeln nacheinander in das Mixgals füllen, kurz shaken und in das Gästeglas abseihen. Fertig

Dekoration : Zitronenscheibe

Vorsicht: explosiv und süchtig machend

Dieses Rezept wurde eingegeben vom Community-Member whitewolion.

 

 

 

-or-

 

Mixed Drink Recipe For: Plutonium

Ingredients:
1oz Rasberry Vodka
.5oz Triple Sec
1oz Apple Pucker
Pineapple Juice
7up
Orange Peel,or Lemon Peel

Directions:
Mix vodka, triple sec, apple pucker, and pineapple to a martini shaker with ice. Shake thoroughly and strain into a chilled martini glass. Top with a splash of 7up, and garnish with an orange or lemon twist.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:13 | 1108969 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i liked the "Wodka"!  +W.

the second version seems pretty sweet.

i like first one.  sent it to batmanke and if he puts in in the "punchbowl" there will be no dips for a week!

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:32 | 1109054 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

That's kickin' it old skool, with sauerbraten and wienerschnitzel.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:23 | 1109023 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

First recipe

but add a couple of drops of fluoroceine -- and drink under a blacklight?

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:45 | 1109121 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Blacklight cocktails...

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:10 | 1109507 Natasha Fatale
Natasha Fatale's picture

Schmeckts gut! Aber ohne Eis für mich :)

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:46 | 1108860 whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture

Is Plutonium worse than Cesium ? Was it Plutonium that made things worse at Chernobyl ? Anybody here know ?

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:57 | 1108902 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Plutonium is the most deadly material known to man, with an LD 50 (ie the dose at which half of the afflicted subjects die) at 10 NANOGRAMS/kilogram.  Yes, a single, nigh microscopic spec of this stuff will kill you if you inhale it.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:08 | 1108938 TeamAmerica
TeamAmerica's picture

Correct.  A microscopic speck.  Not "one atom".

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:23 | 1109011 redpill
redpill's picture

Keep looking for pubic hairs to split, dickface.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:34 | 1109623 TeamAmerica
TeamAmerica's picture

You really are a complete idiot, aren't you?   Not an ordinary half-assed idiot, but one who has mastered the full depth and breath of idiocy.  Kudos, idiot.  :-)

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:39 | 1109095 trav7777
trav7777's picture

not even CLOSE to correct.

The LD50 that cliff claven cites is derived from a zero-dimensional model where someone takes the total rad count from a chunk of Pu in terms of becquerels/gram and then puts that on a chart of whole-body REM dosage and sees where the LD50 is, as if every single becquerel of radiation from every single atom of Pu is absorbed in a whole-body manner.

It isn't even vaguely close to correct. 

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:43 | 1109388 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Ok, both of you need to produce some sources to back up your claims.

Or we can just agree that it's NASTY FUCKING SHIT THAT YOU WANT TO STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM?

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:42 | 1109393 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Excuse me, that should be NASTY FUCKING SHIT FROM WHICH YOU WANT TO STAY THE HELL AWAY.

I should've known better.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:22 | 1109569 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I already advised people to google Plutonium.

Wiki has a toxicity section...there's another link downthread.

If you'd like, you may go to http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-156042.html

And read about how the 10 ng/kg LD50 was "concocted"

Producing sources is for people who make outrageous claims, not for people like me who state shit so ubiquitous that you have to be intentionally obtuse not to see it.

Seriously, man, suppose I didn't know what Pu's toxicity was and I wanted to verify Cliff's claim for myself (as you suggest you wish to do).  Is it really that hard to use that google toolbar, type plutonium, and press enter and see where it leads me?

If you just do that, check facts for yourself (teach a man to fish), you will pretty quickly realize that what I speak is the truth. 

Pu is nasty, sure...but the other byproducts are far worse in terms of their impact to humans and their dispersion and uptake characteristics.  Your body LIKES I131 and Cs137, Pu it doesn't really.

 

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:48 | 1109626 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

"Pu is nasty, sure...but the other byproducts are far worse in terms of their impact to humans and their dispersion and uptake characteristics.  Your body LIKES I131 and Cs137, Pu it doesn't really."

Yes, this is the contribution that you COULD be making to this discussion. That while Pu is agreeably nasty, Cs poses a greater threat to humans offsite due to its bioavailability and the potential for dispersion over a much wider area. So far as this layman can see, to date this accident lacks the large vertical lift component that would be required to see widespread dispersal of Pu. 

I am unclear as to the potential for seaborne dispersion of Pu, perhaps you have a thought on this possibility?

The thought of Cs137 entering the world's food supply in a substantial way due to this CF is much more concerning to me than the Pu deposited on site.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:56 | 1109692 malikai
malikai's picture

This is the contribution I have been making since day 1 of OMFG PLUTONIUM GTFO RUN FOR THE HILLS!@#

Trav has been saying practically the same shit.

But it doesn't jive with OMFG RUN FOR THE HILLS PLUTONIUM IS COMING!#!@

Therefore, we get junked for speaking the truth.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:04 | 1109721 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

I think the signal to noise level was likely too low.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:11 | 1109745 tmosley
tmosley's picture

He gets junked for yelling and insulting anyone and everyone he talks to.  He calls people stupid for posting numbers that exist in the literature, rather than simply calmly explaining the problem with them.

But all this back and forth over the toxicity of Pu misses the main point- AT LEAST ONE REACTOR HAS A HOLE IN IT.

If that doesn't say head for the hills (those in Japan), I don't know what does.

Tue, 03/29/2011 - 06:21 | 1109820 malikai
malikai's picture

But all this back and forth over the toxicity of Pu misses the main point- AT LEAST ONE REACTOR HAS A HOLE IN IT.

Exactly. If we are to be concerned with this matter at all, we should be sifting through the red herrings, disinformation, and noise. We should be finding facts which matter, not arguing, orgying in fear, or seeking affirmation of our end of the world bias.

Mankind survived through all the atmospheric nuclear testing in the 40s-60s, Chernobyl, and all the undisclosed military radiological accidents (some of which are arguably worse than Chernobyl). We will survive through this, too.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:58 | 1109456 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I have noticed a pattern.  You run around screaming that people are wrong, and then you fail to provide the correct numbers.

This is the behavior of a douchebag.  Perhaps you should provide some numbers of your own, eh?

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:28 | 1109594 trav7777
trav7777's picture

use teh google, Cliff.

BTW, it was your claim.  You didn't fact check it.

Even when asked for a cite, you provided a google which spits out results that REFUTE your claim.

You didn't even bother to read your own citations; we in the debate industry use a technical term for people like you:  "asshat."

You are quite lucky ZH isn't populated with other rationals...another forum I frequent had a guy who used to do exactly what you do, make claims, get refuted, post a google with cites he never read.  He was eventually pilloried by everybody as a fool, a trait you two share.

On ZH you can get away with "BUY PMs LOOK OVER THERE" and nobody seems to notice.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:58 | 1109695 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Yes, we know Trav. There is no problem. No reason to panic. Everyone is safe. Go back inside and watch teevee. All ZHers don't back their claims. All is well.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:15 | 1109756 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Uhh, you sidestepped the request for numbers.  Remember how you yelled at me for doing that?  Now yell at yourself in the same manner, hypocrite.

Also, nothing in that Google search refuted anything I said.  Unless you are taking the comments of two random wiki contributors in a talk page as fact.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:10 | 1109934 trav7777
trav7777's picture

You do understand that you need to SUPPORT a claim, right?

Nobody knows the real LD50 for Pu because it hasn't been studied.  However, it is clearly far higher than 10ng which was sourced via the manner I said it was.  And teh google you pulled demonstrated that, if you had read it.

There are some updated estimates posted downthread from some of the places I suggested you look.

So, you've fallen on your face again; aren't you getting tired of that?

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:44 | 1110076 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You, like Red Neck, don't know what that last sentence of yours means.

The real meaning is found in the situation where you thought that 500 milligrams was the same as 500 grams.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 17:17 | 1110225 d_senti
d_senti's picture

But Trav, you didn't support your claim. You just tell people to google it.

You do contribute to this board, and I'm not one of those who wants you to go away. But if you presented your claims rationally and calmly, with sources, I guarantee most people would listen to what you had to say. Instead you just absolutely lose it and scream insults like you're frothing from the mouth.

Seriously, you're gonna give yourself a coronary. That whole shouting match debacle yesterday (or whenever it was) between you and tmosley etc. would have been easily avoided if you had begun with a nice, calm, rational assessment, instead of insulting TD on his own blog.

Same thing here. If you had just started by saying: "Actually, the lethality of Pu is debatable, and the dangers presented by Ce-137 (and so on) are much more serious, since the body mistakes them for beneficial elements. See this: (link)." ...had you done that, people would've been downright appreciative. I would've been.

But instead you had to be a dick. That's not to say people aren't dicks to you too, obviously, but if you'd just be the bigger man instead of acting like a demeaning egomaniacal cockgobbler, then peace and harmony would rule the land, and many more people would listen to you. It's not about trying to be popular - it's about getting your point across, and about basic human decency.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:41 | 1109647 TeamAmerica
TeamAmerica's picture

I was agreeing to the "speck" as opposed to "one atom".     As for the LD50, I've always associated that with chemical toxicity rather than radiological effect.   I suspect any citation of LD50 for Plutonium in humans would be conjectural.   Perhaps the bad old Soviet did controlled experiments, but I doubt it.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:19 | 1108995 pods
pods's picture

Saw that LD50 before tmosley, terrible stuff. Worst I have seen (previous) was Oxymetazoline HCl, which was 0.68 mg per kg.  Pu is really terrible stuff.

Let's just hope that the Pu that was found was from the spent rods, and not from a continuing fission reaction within the core, or even worse, a restarted one in the spent fuel pools.

pods

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:35 | 1109065 trav7777
trav7777's picture

no, plutonium is NOT the most deadly material known to man.

I would also like a CITE for your LD50 of 10 nanograms/kg.

You are a fucking fool, mosely...is there ANYTHING which you actually KNOW?  Fucking Cliff Claven

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:18 | 1109278 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture
Toxicity

Recent research with one of the least radioactive isotopes of plutonium (plutonium-242, which has a half-life of 376,000 years) indicates that plutonium in the body may contribute to the development of tumors. In general, however, plutonium isotopic mixtures that are commonly encountered in the nuclear fuel cycle, nuclear weapons programs, or thermoelectric generator applications exhibit much higher radiological toxicity than chemical toxicity.

 

from http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/plutonium.html

 

The risk and toxicity of NATURALLY OCCURING Plutonium oxide, is small - plutonium isotopes from "thermo-electric generator applications" (like Fukushima) have additional risks.  In my Nuclear Physics class (many years ago) it was the CHEMICAL toxicity of Plutonium (not Plutonium oxide) that was off the chart, the radiation problems were minor compared to it.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:21 | 1109295 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Defensive much?  I thought all was well, and that there would be no contamination, and that this certainly was no Chernobyl?

I guess holes in the reactor don't count unless you say they do.

Get the fuck out of here before you embarrass yourself some more you racist shit.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:29 | 1109333 tmosley
tmosley's picture

And just so you can't accuse me of sidestepping the question, here, let me Google that for you: http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=plutonium+50+nanogra...

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:38 | 1109364 trav7777
trav7777's picture

you didn't actually read any of those, did you?  LOL

They did animal studies in the 1000 microgram range for determination of LD50s in them.

You maybe ought to look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AMedian_lethal_dose#Plutonium

where they discuss the LD50 of Pu.  Try READING your citations before citing what you think supports your position.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:41 | 1109385 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Christ you are such a loser.  This is why everyone hates you, and your comments now get junked no matter their content.

http://books.google.com/books?id=v2l39w5AtIMC&pg=PA431&lpg=PA431&dq=plut...

It's past time for you to leave, boy.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:45 | 1109403 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Man, you guys.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:34 | 1110033 Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

He is chumbawumba

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:31 | 1109616 trav7777
trav7777's picture

http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-156042.html among all the rest.

You cite one book appropriately titled "culture of make believe" who does what you do, cites an LD50 for which there is no support.

Go to read about physicists telling you how that LD50 was calculated.

really, you ought to learn to read instead of trying to argue via google hits.

Did you check on who that author is?  Let me help you out here: "Derrick Jensen, activist, author, small farmer, beekeeper, teacher, and philosopher, is the widely acclaimed author of A Language Older Than Words and The Culture of Make Believe, among others'

Sounds like a fuckin NUKYALER EXPERT to me...I better pencil down the shit he says.

ROTFL@U again cliff!

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:24 | 1109776 tmosley
tmosley's picture

This as opposed to the two totally anonymous people talking with each other in a talk page on wiki.  You might as well has cited scrawl in a public bathroom.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:10 | 1109941 trav7777
trav7777's picture

that was just a START for you, Cliff.

I expected that you would have looked at some of the other cites, such as physicsforum, etc.  I guess I expected too much.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:48 | 1110085 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yes, you start with scrawls on the bathroom wall, and end with a gangbang by the other members of my homosexual stalker club.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:43 | 1109855 reading
reading's picture

OK, really if you're gonna cite Wiki as a "source" for anything then you're gonna having to go back to kindergarten as Wiki isn't an acceptable research source for anything beyond first grade.  So, can you provide some real sources for us to peruse?

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:11 | 1109946 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I already did.

Why don't you google plutonium LD50 and go from there?

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:53 | 1110108 tmosley
tmosley's picture

No, you cite an internet discussion on a website of unknown veracity.  Cite a paper, for fucks sake.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:31 | 1109334 trav7777
trav7777's picture

A CITE, Cliff.

Not a non sequitur.  Not evasion, bullshit, and bluster.

A CITE for your claim.

Did you honestly think you could put shit like this past me?

CITE, Cliff.  Cite your LD50.  that's all you have to do.

Don't worry, cliff...I already know.  You actually went out and did a bit of research and in 10 minutes of google found out that what I was saying was exactly true.

It must amaze people like you how the hell I can be so consistently right.  I'll give you the secret- I CHECK MY FACTS BEFORE I START TALKING, MOTHERFUCKER.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:39 | 1109369 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Funny how you spend two minutes writing abusive crap.

It's time for you to take your leave.  You have earned the blind hatred of the members of this forum, and as such can no longer communicate in an effective manner.

Just go.  It's over.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:49 | 1109424 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

T, I gotta interject here.  I like and respect you a lot.  You're one of the few people here whom I actually take time to read.

And as much as Trav is loathed, I like him, too.  And I've tangled with him before, but I gotta respect him because he does know his shit.

Both of you are really intelligent.  That's where the conflict arises between you two.  It's just an intellectual pissing match at this point.

Let's call it a draw, you guys keep your distance, and let's just move on to more productive discussions.

K?

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:07 | 1109495 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Sadly, I am not known for my ability to back down.

Fuck, this guy is basically saying that the worst case scenario is no big deal.  THERE IS FUCKING PLUTONIUM ON THE GROUND.  That can mean nothing except the core is now exposed to air.  This is it, the end.  You can't even get close enough to the reactor to even start to entomb it.  

He runs around shouting down everyone he sees, telling him how wrong they are, without posting data to refute.  Shit's annoying, yo.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:26 | 1109593 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Just think about it for a moment, please! You're smart guy and you are my guru about silver but just think how you behave here. Do you have enough info or education in nuclear science to declare somebody is an idiot? I don't think so, I would like you to be a bit less militant and present your message in the form of "best guess" than "sure thing" that would be much more productive than those "fucks" you send to each other.  

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:47 | 1109659 trav7777
trav7777's picture

You're not known for it, consequently you rush in where fools fear to tread, and one of those places is an argument against ME!

You should know by now that I am fucking toying with you, bitch.

The thing you fear most is losing this "credibility" you think you have, but you only have it among people who know next to nothing and mostly because you tell them what they want to hear about PMs.

Stop overreaching and trying to be an expert in things upon which you have no knowledge.  If you only KNEW who some of the people are who you are fucking with on here, what their backgrounds are, and how GROSSLY outmatched you are in nearly any discussion with them, you rightly should feel shameful that you are even speaking.

I'll let you in on a secret, all of you...one of the reasons I do what I do is because I like to set traps in arguments.

NOTHING makes me more smug than stating a fact which I know to be true (but without supporting citation) only to have someone like you come back telling me I am full of shit.  And then you run out and try to back up your own claims and find out to your chagrin that everything I said was supported and that YOU are wrong.

I ENCOURAGE people to run right out and try to disprove what I say.  Do you SEE ANYONE DOING IT, CLIFF?  EVER?

You sure as shit ain't.  The best you can do is a spray and pray google full of cites which if you had read them would have shown you how wrong you were.

Please, everybody...PROVE ME WRONG.  I double dare you.

And I never said everything was "no big deal."  Ever.  Don't put words in my mouth, son.

Like me or not, you too will begin to accept what I say as fact.  It's good for you that I am not a liar.  Many others, far better and smarter than you have gone down this road only to finally understand and make peace with this.  So will it be with you.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 19:26 | 1110086 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Trav, is there like a shrine or something where we can go and worship you? It just feels... insufficient... disrespectful, even... to just genuflect to our screens everytime we see your smiley yellow face, and your single digit pointing helpfully heavenwards.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 23:14 | 1111468 The Deacon
The Deacon's picture

The doomer content on this site can be overwhelming.

But man, every thread has a few zingers that make a guy laugh out loud.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 19:22 | 1110645 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

 Small quantities of Pu on the ground do not mean "the core is exposed to the air"; there is continuing confusion over "what has a hole in it"; the concrete containment vessel "has a hole in it" or some type of "leak"; the steel reactor vessel, which lives inside the containment vessel, does not have a hole in it. Very small quantities of Pu came out with the steam that was vented during the hydrogen explosions. The cores are still inside the steel reactor vessels; more things that you need to grasp; it's not getting worse; it's getting better; the temperatures are way, way below the temperatures at which any of the structural metals involved, weaken or melt; there is no heat source; the heat load is continually decreasing; nothing is heating up; the time window for things melting is long past. Iodine and Cesium are low temperature materials that easily get into the air during steam venting; Pu. less so. Pu. on the ground, is not a concern to anyone; it's not a public health concern. It's a heavy metal and "on the ground" is exactly where you would expect to find it. The airborne dust from American above ground nuclear tests which fell out in American states contained Pu. which was probably breathed in by John Wayne and other people "fluffing up the dust" while stopping the stage coach robbers, and etc. in the cowboy movies. Breathing Pu. dust and Pu. sitting quietly on the ground are two entirely different things. Pu. is an Alpha emitter and it's very bad for causing lung cancer after you breathe in your airborne particle. Pu. sitting on the ground is not interesting. What's actually going to happen here in Fuku. whatever, is that it will fall out of the news, it's just a big clean up problem for the utility the radiation burden will never be a public health concern. This is not an easy subject to understand you really do need at least a basic background in Physics; and of course if you like to get excited about "wonderful disasters"; I suppose no one can stop you. In general, the devil is in the details; the quantity of Pu. released by the American testing program was enormous; and it was virutally all air-borne particles. So, just to re-cap; nothing is melting, nothing is going to melt; air-borne releases will continue to decrease, not increase, as temperatures continue to fall; these are facts, do with them as you will.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:34 | 1109628 trav7777
trav7777's picture

chumba, I like you too.

But cliff claven aka tmosely is not my equal by any stretch.  This is not a pissing match, it's a matter of fact.

I have heard offline complaints about mosely from people who are taken aback at his sheer stupidity in the face of his intellectual superiors.  We laugh at him.

There is no draw here; there is fact and there is bullshit.  Cliff wants to be on the side of bullshit; that's fine with me.  He gets roughed up as usual.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:18 | 1109770 tmosley
tmosley's picture

All present will note that trav has YET to provide a number for Pu toxicity.  Insults, he has plenty of.

Also, what?  You are talking to people about me offline?  What, do my gay stalkers have a fan club now?  Can I get a t-shirt?

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:15 | 1109955 trav7777
trav7777's picture

haven't you figured it out yet, Cliff?

there is no LD50 for Plutonium.

Got it?  There are but THREE sets of studies, AS I REFERENCED, which can even be used as a GUESS as to its LD50.

Suffice it to say that they DO completely refute "10ng," so you can find something else to fall on your face about now. 

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:42 | 1110067 Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

I found an article about scientists injecting plutonium into people as part of the Manhattan Project that you both might be interested in:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/pubs/00326640.pdf

 

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:49 | 1110095 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I don't believe that for a second! Our government would never do such a thing.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 19:28 | 1110663 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

 There isn't any "number" for Pu. toxicity, and if there was, it wouldn't do you any good. What doesn one gram of Pu. spread on an acre of dirt mean to anyone? nothing. back spread a half-inch of top soil and plant a lawn. It's not airborne dust; the usual number that's bandied about in univ. physics depts. is a "microgram"; as in a microgram inhaled, (which sticks to the lung wall) will eventually cause cancer. As for Pu. itself you can carry it around in your naked hand.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:38 | 1109643 Rick64
Rick64's picture

Chumba an arbitrator, never thought I would see that.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:49 | 1109670 trav7777
trav7777's picture

LOL me neither

if I's can change...and you's can change...EVERYBODY CAN CHANGE

hahahahahah

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:05 | 1109726 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Don't do that "hahahaha" because your message is lost, they hate your ego! And probably you will be proven wrong by developments at the site. Can you understand it? I don't think so. You have to do some analsysis of your mentality, genius!

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:15 | 1109757 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I've been proven right by developments at the site.  The things I said they needed to do, ended up happening a couple of days later.

I expected Pu contamination and think I said so.

You have to clear your head and read what I say not what you think I say or wish I were saying or want me to be saying.  I'm not the face of your strawman

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:25 | 1109789 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Bullshit.  You have been running around since day one telling everyone how this isn't a big deal.  Now the reactor is sitting open to air, and you are standing there with your dick in your hand trying to distract people with some bullshit argument over whether or not a mote of Pu will kill you or not.  THE FUCKING REACTOR IS BREACHED, YOU CRETIN.  It's fucking over.  Get over it.

Also, get out.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:20 | 1109977 trav7777
trav7777's picture

You're not tired of making a fool out of yourself?

CITE where I said nothing was a big deal?

In fact I was one of the ones who said the reactor had possibly breached a WEEK AGO (still unconfirmed).

the claims you make are UNSUPPORTED...is this habitual or do you just like looking STUPID?

Fuck off.  By the time this is done, you will be the laughingstock of ZH.  You have no credibility.  You can barely open your mouth anymore without having the stupid shit you say shoved right back down your throat.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 19:34 | 1110684 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

 The "reactor vessel: which is made of thick steel is intact; whether or not it's exposed to the air; is irrellevant; it actually isn't exposed to the air; although the surrounding containment has a leak, or hole, or something in it. You are the one who insisted on a  "toxicity number" for Pu. which merely reveals your lack of understanding. Requiring someone else to leave, or get out, is simply an expression of fear. You are afraid your pseudo-technical babbling will exposed for ignorance; which allas, is un-avoidable.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:44 | 1109386 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

"Talking" is the operative here.

A forum/comment board like this approximates a conversation, not a peer reviewed research paper.

Alas arrogant fuckers like you are all too good at killing the CONVERSATION by swooping in demanding cites, demanding their intellectual inferiors "do the research" and generally being a PITA arguing the definition of is. This is endemic to internet forums, particularily the statist/establishment leaning ones.

Think research scientist meets attorney, this is the pathology.

Trav in case you haven't noticed, your brand of narcissim doesn't fly around here. Unless your contribution is intended to advance the conversation (and I suppose in an extreme case, correcting felonious disinfo does advance it), it's nothing more than mental masturbation and self glorification.

So the topic of CONVERSATION on this thread is the juxtaposition of Pu being discovered outside of containment and TEPCO's assurance that Pu poses no danger to human health.

What say you?

BTW - You are getting perilously close getting one of my patented ESADs normally reserved for More Critical Thinking Wanted the Fuckhead and Mark McGoldrick the Fuckhead. Proceed at your own peril, [evil laugh].

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:02 | 1109471 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Must disagree here.  ZH is an important/useful source of info for me, which is why I find it imperative to keep the information accurate no matter where it's posted (whether by Tyler, contributors, or commenters).  I'd rather have guys like Trav coming in and making people back up their assertions.  I always demand the same, both from others and myself.

And I harbor no illusions that just because someone cites someone else that that is the be all and end all.  All we can do is approach good approximations of the truth.  And we arrive at better approximations by listening and learning from people who have proven over time that their theories, conjecture and research applies to the real world.  This is why academics are often spurned: all their knowledge and learning is from books and in research labs, not the real world.  Practical experience is worth much more than book knowledge.

This goes to a larger issue.  The reason we're all here is because we went seeking the Truth, where ever that truth leads us.  So now that we're here, we should not assume that we can simply trust one another's words or judgements.  For one, we need to keep each other honest, and the moment you let your guard down because you're "among friends" is when you start to betray your own principles, the ones that brought you here in the first place.  For another, many of the people commenting here are government propaganda stooges, paid agitators and mis/dis-information specialists paid to cause confusion and raise hackles.

Trav made a good point in some of his comments yesterday when he talked about this place becoming an echo chamber of people reinforcing each others' opinions (something to that effect).  The very most absolute WORST thing you can do is let your guard down and stop questioning.  Just because you're on ZH doesn't mean you can leave your skepticism at the door.

Everyone should ALWAYS remain skeptical, even of the "experts", even the popular ones.  I can't stand fawning sycophants.

One last word, to Trav: dude, it's your approach.  Chill some?

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:07 | 1109497 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

I actually appreciate the info Trav posts, my observation also tends toward his manner/approach.

Asking for back-up to a bold/critical assertion is one thing but hijacking a conversation by demanding minutia be documented is another. In fact, it is a tactic.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:22 | 1109565 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

Sir, your words are true.

 

downrodeo likes this

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:44 | 1109660 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

That's Chumbawamba I like, reason and fact, hope you stay like that and kill your opponents with your brain power and not silly exchanges of insults, piss on them.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:57 | 1109690 trav7777
trav7777's picture

wow...holy crap; never thought I would live to see a post like this from Chumba. 

Sure it's my approach.  I am not here to be meek...let me ask you:  what happens to the meek who present facts then slink away when they get junked?  The truth gets drowned out, the facts sink under the rising tide of groupthink. 

I believe that some like you are here seeking truth.  But I have lately realized what I should have known at the outset- most are not here for that.  They are here for the same reason birds of a feather flock together and that is to "belong."  I'm not here to belong.  I don't need virtual friends; I have the truth as my ally and a powerful ally it is.

People who are here to learn have my respect and will be afforded it.  Those who are like Cliff Clavenmosely get the hose.

There are others who have not taken my approach and aren't flipping the bird with their avatar; answer me downthread whether they got jumped on just like I have.  You'll see that they have.  ANY message contrary to the groupthink consensus position is attacked and the messenger smeared immediately, and usually by a select few attack dogs.

And yes, I use that avatar to intentionally get a rise out of people.  Perhaps it is too much to expect ordinary people to not be so pavlovian, but they either get led to it or they get led to slaughter. 

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:04 | 1109713 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

You could get your point across much better if you posted 3/4 less - whether in words or incessant, formulaic posts.

Tue, 03/29/2011 - 02:29 | 1111796 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Amen. Thanks, Waterwings.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:51 | 1109882 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Apparently you must live in a red haze, because the most powerful posters here are soft spoken.  I would suggest you read some of Aristarchan's posts, which are excellent.  I don't think he laid down a single insult.

Funny, I had forgotten how his name was spelled, so I was scrolling through the posts for the last few days looking for the exchange (which is here: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tepco-admits-another-cover-radioactivit... for those who are interested), and I saw a lot of bullshit from you about you wanting to be my master or something.  I just wanted to let you know that was the gayest shit I've ever heard from anyone.  Maybe that's why you hate blacks so much, they wouldn't let you participate in any of their "on the down low" sessions?

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:22 | 1109300 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Listen man, can you sell us your knowledge without constant hostile outburst? I like to read your posts because I learn from them but that constant hostility towards other posters who don't have your knowledge are really tiring, just treat them like good teacher would do dealing with his pupils. Other guys are not better either resorting to insults instead of just discussing the problem. I don't think tmoseley is nuclear scientists and just uses all available resources to learn how things work and tries to present them to us.

I know the govs will hide true picture of situation from public because panic would cause absolutely uncontrollable environment where they cannot provide any basic services to population. We finding ourselves in position where we can only wait for the outcome, which btw gets progressively worse. If we had all true info about that disaster it would not change anything and maybe make situation worse yet (what can you do? Buy truckload of iodine, drink water only from bottles, for how long? No showers, no food, living underground).

Don't take my post as defence of governments, they are responsible for that mess and at that point I don't think there is any person in this world who can really tell us how to solve this problem or knows true extent of this tragedy.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:02 | 1109479 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I concur.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:10 | 1109743 trav7777
trav7777's picture

sure man, I assume you're talking to me.

Look downthread where I encouraged people to research Plutonium.

How many junks am I up to?  Look at where another guy did the same thing...how many junks is he up to?  The attack dogs jumped all over him for refuting the "one atom" claim.

Where was anyone to defend him?  The weight of groupthink here grows by the day and it simply overwhelms people.  However I am like a wolverine and I simply won't back down, I won't shut up, I won't go away and leave the discussion to be steered by ignorants like mosely-claven.

There are some among us who know a good deal on certain topics.  Do you not see how "just STFU" starts to creep into everyone's vernacular who defies the conventional ZHeeple wisdom, even among Ph.D.s?

Why don't you try it?  Post something stating that plutonium isn't as big a risk as some have said it is and see what happens to you.

It's well and good to criticize those who are putting their own necks out there and taking the abuse when you won't, nor will you defend them.

This board is an interesting study in group dynamics; there are clearly those who support my positions and sympathize with my manner, but they are AFRAID to speak for fear of being ostracized.  If someone posts in support of me they get the shit junked out of them and an attack dog tells them they are my shill, sockpuppet, etc.

Is this not a classic echo chamber where conformism is enforced?  There is overt HOSTILITY here toward the truth and it matters not who speaks it.  I or anybody else goes contrary to groupthink, we get attacked in the same way.

My position is that people who don't know should not speak.  That may sound revolutionary in 2011 that your opinion has no worth and should not be voiced, because we're taught from day one that everyone is "entitled" to their opinion.

I am swimming against a tide of decades of groupthink reinforcement here and I know it.  And it is *unrealistic* for you to expect that if I would just soothe my manner with some type of siren song that I could in any way persuade the Clavens around here of my veracity.

In fact, by being abrasive, I am doing a service to you.  The truth hurts sometimes; with all the apocalypse EOTW TSHTF talk I would expect that everybody hear grasped that.  When things "come down" Mother Nature won't be any more soothing than I am.  Better get used to it.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:30 | 1109803 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

 If someone posts in support of me they get the shit junked out of them and an attack dog tells them they are my shill, sockpuppet, etc.

Examples. At least two please.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:23 | 1109997 trav7777
trav7777's picture

look downthread...there are probably a dozen.

Don't ask me for cites if you can't read what's in front of you.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 17:00 | 1110138 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Uh, I see HarryWanger, TeamAmerica, and some Benjamin Fulford wannabe getting junked - WTF are you talking about? A dozen?

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 17:43 | 1110323 d_senti
d_senti's picture

Trav, per your above post, you're totally forgetting the tons of people who don't comment (like i didn't for a year) or comment only infrequently. If you present a reasoned argument in a calm tone that's backed by strong sources, yes, you absolutely will have some people junk you and spaz out. But guess what? That silent majority, the 95% who don't reply, see what you have to say and learn from it.

Why give a crap about people who reply with poor/non-existent arguments? If you're trying to reach the people who are sincerely looking for the truth of the situation, and who have a modicum of intelligence, then they'll see through the BS. You've taken on the role of policeman of the comments section when it's unnecessary.

You said you try and get a rise out of people. Just don't. Don't come here if your goal is to stroke your ego. But if your goal is to correct where people present false info, or to educate the misinformed, or bring your knowledge of subjects to the discussion, then awesome. Post away. We very much appreciate it. But leave the ego at the door.

You break through the groupthink by being an alternative, rational voice, not by freaking out in the other direction.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 19:23 | 1110648 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"Why give a crap about people who reply with poor/non-existent arguments? "

This is the crux of the matter.

And why give a crap about junks if you know that you are right? Junks tell me that someone has actually read my post (and that I have probably disturbed their precious equilibrium)!

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:11 | 1109866 reading
reading's picture

Do you get paid by the fucking word or what?  PS...regardless of your "knowledge" on a given topic which I have yet to see you prove with reliable sources -- though you've got a whole lot of spewing -- you come off like a real asshole.  So, since that seems to be your objective number one -- MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:11 | 1109936 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

Trav,

For what it's worth, I support you.  Groupthink is the only reasonable explanation as to why you are constantly attacked.  Since day one of the Japan disaster, you have laid out the facts, for which I am grateful.  You have even presented possible worst-case scenarios and other things to watch out for.  You have NOT run around here saying "all is well."  The attacks on you are groundless.

As for your hostility, who cares?  Others here are equally hostile, even to the point of being rude and mean, and for some reason they get away with it every day.  Whatever.  It's scary to see what is happening here, people attacking one of the very few people presenting facts.  That's exactly what will happen with the economic mess.  Mako and other posters were run off long ago.  B9K9 rarely posts anymore.  Apparently, the truth will set you free of zerohedge.

And for the assholes here, I am not a sockpuppet.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:34 | 1110039 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

You are fucken asshole talking to the wind? Or you want to be somebody to listen to? Your choice!

Tue, 03/29/2011 - 02:39 | 1111803 MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

It was really only my respect for Trav (which is an acquired taste) that has kept me reticent about these events, and many others.  Plenty of folks around here these days could really learn to STFU sometimes.  That is all.

Tue, 03/29/2011 - 02:45 | 1111812 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Dear Trav,

I junk you almost reflexively now.

Whatever message you have is lost in all the garbage you choose to burden your posts with.

I will summarize: "I have The Truth, and if you disagree you are a fucking fuckity fuck who fucks dead fuckin fuckity goats, your mama."

Nobody wants to read vitriol & invective. Especially not 50 times per thread. Maybe "fuckity fuckin fuck you fuck" was fresh back when Richard Pryor & Eddie Murphy did it. It's played out now. People are not junking you because of your "truth". They are junking you because of your conduct.

Enjoy your middle finger, it's all you have now.

Beef

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:27 | 1109301 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

double post, sorry

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:11 | 1109518 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Not 10 ng/kg but here's a recent cite.

http://muller.lbl.gov/teaching/Physics10/old%20physics%2010/chapters%20(old)/14-plutonium.html 

Plutonium lethal doses

Ingestion: 500 mg
Inhalation: death in a month 20mg
,  cancer 80 micrograms aka 560 dust/smoke particles

Comparison
Lethal Dose amounts
Botulism toxin: 70 nanograms
Cyanide: 100mg
Anthrax: 10,000 particles

 

 

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:17 | 1109766 trav7777
trav7777's picture

thanks.

half a kilo ingested...lol

20mg inhaled in one month. 80 ug of fine dust particulates...a far cry from 10ng.  And the cancer would happen 40 years later.

Compare to caffeine or nicotine.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:34 | 1109816 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

500mg = 0.5 kilo!??!?!

Caffeine is just as dangerous!!!111

Kid, put that coke down or you'll die at 43!

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:52 | 1109883 reading
reading's picture

Well, given your math skills I guess we were right -- you're a blow hard who likes to see himself talk....

 

FYI 500 MG = 0.0005 Kilograms....and my source? The google.  

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:01 | 1109896 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Wow, and you badmouth me for being "stupid".  I think your IQ was the opposite of your estimation, ie 61, rather than 261.

500mg=0.5 GRAMS you moron.

10 ng/kilo, not 10ng period.  You would think you would be smart enough to know the difference.  I guess not.  

Also, I love how you still never provided any numbers, despite pissing all over me for not providing numbers under the exact same circumstances.

You are such a hypocrite.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:01 | 1109908 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Half a gram yo. 

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:27 | 1110012 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yeah sorry...misread it as 500g

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 17:10 | 1110173 INT
INT's picture

I junked you because you didn't clearly fucking think about what you wrote, you just wrote it.  Did you think to re-read the passage as or after you typed?  Or did you really think we were talking about 0.5 kilograms?  Dude that's something like over a fucking pound ... kick that brain in gear next time!

If you applied a little logic, this "misread" error would not have propagated into the public forum.  Next time, please answer "man, I totally didn't fucking even think about what I wrote!  A half kilo of Pu, wtfwita (what the fuck was I talking about)!" rofl

(I hope I'm entertaining you)

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 17:49 | 1110344 d_senti
d_senti's picture

Honest mistake, anyone could do it. Even TEPCO, lol.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 18:47 | 1110504 UninterestedObserver
UninterestedObserver's picture

Wow you were just proven to be wrong, look stupid and still be an asshole in the span of one post and one reply - impressive. You know if you were an actual "expert" that did know his shit you never would have typed what you did.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:48 | 1108864 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

I heard that Plutonium is necessary for healthy teeth, and that Colgate will have plutonium in all it's products soon

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:52 | 1109159 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Think plutonium shortages. Gotta get in NOW!

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:15 | 1108684 Bleeping Fed
Bleeping Fed's picture

Because plutonium cleanup contributes to GDP growth!!!

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:19 | 1108712 janchup
janchup's picture

Better on the ground because just one atom in the lungs brings terminal lung cancer.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:20 | 1108726 Cdad
Cdad's picture

There...I think that is it.

"For every plutonium atom we discover on the grounds of the Fukushima plant, that is one plutonium atom that is not in the lungs of a resident of Tokyo."

Submit to NHK...compliments of the brotherhood of ZH.

Rally on then!!

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:35 | 1108807 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

LOL

The United Brotherhood of ZH.

Well, all except Trav7777.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:58 | 1108908 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Brother Cog,

I count you as one.  In fact, many in here.  How united we are on any given day...well...

Lord knows we are very much like a rebel force, ragged, fighting on various nonlinear fronts in an asymmetrical financial war against a conventional financial army that is well equipped and dug in.  But a brotherhood still.

As for Trav...not sure I have been here long enough to know what his issue is.  An edgy fucker, to be sure.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:20 | 1109006 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I say we recruit him. By his own words he's never wrong and would never allow himself to be wrong. May I suggest that we need a few sociopaths on our side.

by trav7777
on
Sun, 03/27/2011 - 12:15
#1105489

 

Dude, how the fuck do you think I was ABLE to be first with that post unless the retraction was ALREADY OUT?

By the time TD put up the goddamned page to draw you flies in, the reading had ALREADY BEEN RETRACTED.  He knew it and I knew it. 

I understand the psych phenomenon of projection.  Consequently, I do understand how you people could believe I am talking shit, because you yourselves pretty constantly are.  Downing Effect.  READ it.  Write a fucking NOVEL on it.

But, anyone who has done even a paucity of psych analysis would realize straight away that being wrong publicly is an anathema to me, which is why I take great pains to never do it.

A fair recitation of the facts would have made equal emphasis to the retraction, instead of paragraphs of shit about the initial reading buttressed with utter CRAP about the radiation burns suffered in the water by those 2 workers, as if TEPCO EVER said the things TD just attributed to them.

 

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:43 | 1109103 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I don't suffer the company of fools, sorry.

I am gratified however that you people always seem to have me on your minds.  It gives me a nice feeling

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:53 | 1109167 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Of course it does. To a narcissist, any attention, even abject derision, is considered good. That's why you projectile vomit your bile all over the place.

No one is saying you don't make good points Trav7777. It's your abuse, your failure to admit when you're occasionally wrong and your clear racist and sociopath tendencies that fails to win friends and influence people.

Other than that you're an OK guy.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:19 | 1109276 trav7777
trav7777's picture

no, I spew bile because I am clearly very frustrated with your wilfull stupidity and lack of rationality and how dividers like YOU specifically CD leap into this type of situation to try to enhance your own following.

YOU are a narcissist.  You come here for affirmation and you crave the attention you get.  All the while it's wrapped up in "trying to help."  Don't try to fuck with me, you should know by now that I can see right through you.

If you were the man you claimed you were, you would be defending my attempts at rationality and supporting the truth.  You do not.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:20 | 1109291 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

Pot meet kettle

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:52 | 1109434 tmosley
tmosley's picture

No, pot meet napkin.  Trav, is calling that which is white, black, while being black himself.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:08 | 1109728 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

No, pot meet napkin.

Ah, my daily, guaranteed LOL for surfing ZH. Only a mental napkin would call CogDis a divider.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:44 | 1109356 crazyjsmith
crazyjsmith's picture

Your hate is clouding your judgement.  You are getting way too emotional. You are obviously an intelligent guy, you can offer a lot of insight to the board, and I for one, love the discourse.  I may not agree with you, but as soon as you get all crazy, your message gets distorted.  Just like you said above, you could be more rational in your responses.  But that is choice you have to make.   

Ego and Pride live on the lower rungs of consciousness.    

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:39 | 1109368 10kby2k
10kby2k's picture

You want us to be calm and rational with you while you go into spasms while in constant attack mode.

Double standard.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:58 | 1110133 INT
INT's picture

This dude is a crazy bastard, but smart, and I like him.

Trav - what is your educational background?  Just curious.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:40 | 1109374 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

CD, you have to stop talking to the artificial people.

They get paid when you talk to them.  Of course Trav makes good points sometimes, that's one of the strategies.  You can't convert such beings, you can only out them like you did to the other guy a couple days ago.

Maybe we should ask Trav to share more of his life story.  Like asking a replicant about his mother.

 

Fed delenda est.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 14:42 | 1109657 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I'm fully aware of what he is. My point today was to refute what he is in a rational manner so that others will see what he is, a paid tool and operative. He is part of a paid corporate psyops/disinfo program. I understand the techniques and posted several comments a day ago on the subject. Of course Trav7777 came in and immediately started shouting....proving my point, especially when I never mentioned him or any one else by name.

Not everyone sees what's going on here, particularly those who read but don't comment or are not registered. By my estimates around 85% of the people who read ZH don't comment so the comment section is the minority here on ZH.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 15:13 | 1109748 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

And if they at least logged in they could see the junks where properly attributed - strangely the media is silent when it comes to our raucous quarrels - and racist Trav passes for a regular ZHer. Not cool.

On a long enough timeline free speech doesn't last.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 16:33 | 1110031 trav7777
trav7777's picture

you just accused me of being a paid corporate shill?

Do you have a SINGLE fact to back up this claim?

Look I already know that you don't, you bitch, so don't waste your breath.  You are among the worst kind of ZH poster because you are not who you claim to be.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 17:56 | 1110375 d_senti
d_senti's picture

I believe there are paid corporate schills on this board, but in no way do I believe Trav is one of them. My impression is that the psy-ops approach tends to be either the "rational discourse I have a PhD, you're all mistaken" OR the vitriolic, demeaning "you're all idiots wtf" type. Both together is ineffective.

And I have to agree with him on one front; he never did say this is no big deal. However, he did say he never makes a mistake, which is terrifyingly egotistical.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 19:41 | 1110709 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

 If that's your idea of reality, you really are crazy. Anyone who disagrees with your emotionally driven conclusions, that are impervious to facts, must be a paid agent, ehh? Jesus Christ, what a nut.

Tue, 03/29/2011 - 02:48 | 1111819 MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

 your failure to admit when you're occasionally wrong

I just saw him admit he was wrong just a couple seconds ago??  In the midst of massive derision put upon him.  He didn't even answer any of it.  I don't know.  I guess I must have a different lens on.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:50 | 1109428 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You sure do spend a lot of time around me.  That makes you a liar, whether I am a fool or not.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:39 | 1108816 TeamAmerica
TeamAmerica's picture

NO, it doesn't.   It's entirely possible that every one of us has atoms of Plutonium in our body right now, and it is meaningless.

The half-life of that one atom is anywhere from several thousand to many millions of years, depending on the particular isotope.   That means the probability of that atom decaying (and releasing radiation) during your lifetime is miniscule, and even if it does decay you get hit with a dose so tiny it would be undetectable against background.

 

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:49 | 1108868 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

 

Josef?

Josef Oehmen?

 

That you?

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:16 | 1108911 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Not sure who he is, brother Truth, but curiously enough, I am suddenly hungry for a plutonium sandwich.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:02 | 1108914 TeamAmerica
TeamAmerica's picture

As always, big wet kisses and thanks for bumping up my junk count.   Every one of you clueless anti-science MF'ers are just proving the point - you are scared little sheep jumping at every bit of over-hyped fear mongering.

ONE ATOM, people.   Read the friggin' post.

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:02 | 1108924 nonclaim
nonclaim's picture

I don't think the junkers understand what "decay" means to an atom...

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:14 | 1108978 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

but....but....no one can eat just one :)

 

Your "science" is sorta like those economics lessons that begin with "There were three men on a desert island...."

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 12:56 | 1109182 Broder_Tuck
Broder_Tuck's picture

:D  +++

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 17:57 | 1110389 d_senti
d_senti's picture

Perfect example of what trav was saying here, actually. You were 100% correct and got junked a ton. But I listened, and I guarantee many others did too.

Plutonium is terrible, deadly stuff, but one atom won't kill you.

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