• Sprott Money
    05/26/2016 - 05:58
    How many “emergency” “secret” meetings do the central planners around the world need to have before the citizens of the respective countries begin to fully understand and take notice that something...

Portuguese-Bund Spread At New Record Wide

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Mon, 06/20/2011 - 07:38 | 1384386 Version 7
Version 7's picture

After Greece they are the next to fall.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 07:48 | 1384402 bobert
bobert's picture

And after Portugal who falls?

US?

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 07:53 | 1384408 topcallingtroll
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There are 15 ahead of us if total debt to bank equity ratios continues to predict the order of fall (excluding japan?

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 08:36 | 1384467 bobert
bobert's picture

Interesting, however, I'm not sure why you chose total debt to bank equity as the ratio to follow.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 09:01 | 1384543 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

The top two were ireland and iceland. They were the first to fall.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 08:01 | 1384418 oogs66
oogs66's picture

Ireland?  their first bailout should be due to fail sometime soon

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 08:31 | 1384464 bobert
bobert's picture

Yeah but they are great golfers!!!

Congratulations Rory McIlroy!!!

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 09:59 | 1384676 Version 7
Version 7's picture

Are you kidding? There's still a lot of scope for domino effects in the EU (going up the food chain). Financially, I mean. Socially, who knows the US takes the lead..

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 07:36 | 1384389 hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

China SWF (SAFE)  and South Eastern Asean Centrals banks  are helping Europe (ECB) + Qatar (spain)

 

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 07:38 | 1384394 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

Well, I hope the Martian Banks are ready to bail us all out...

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 08:47 | 1384495 wandstrasse
wandstrasse's picture

They are! I just participated in a telco with them. They have a special event horizon printing press which even can print away the CDS notional amounts outstanding, case one of the PIIGS stops paying interest.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 07:44 | 1384396 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

They hate the idea of no competition to anglo-american hegemony. Plus they want to buy new friends. I am sure the chinese already know what they want in return.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 07:48 | 1384403 magpie
magpie's picture

Spent the morning thinking about bizarro rumours or "news" that could drive the DOW to a 3 % gain.

Leopard tanks and submarines at the Greek firesale ?

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 07:43 | 1384395 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Merkel to Sarkozy - honey are you so happy to see me or is that a gold chart in your pants :)

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 07:54 | 1384400 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Good one! But you forget the usa wins again! We are only a single bagger in a bar full of double baggers.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 07:44 | 1384397 DougM
DougM's picture
Bailout dollars for Paelha
Mon, 06/20/2011 - 07:53 | 1384406 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

SOCIALISM COMMITS SUICIDE ONCE AGAIN!

IT MAKES ME ALMOST COME TO THINK ABOUT THOSE IDIOTS IN ORTUGAL GETTING EXACTLY WHAT THEY DESERVE FOR AN ENDLESS SUCESSION OF LEFT OF CENTER POLITICS AND FREEBIES.

THOSE FREEBIES FROM THE GOVERNMENT WERENT SO FREE AFTER ALL!

TEACH YOU NEVER TO TRUST GOVERNMENT AND SOCIALISM AGAIN GIORGIOS, YOU FUCKING DUMBASS. ALL YOU ARE DOING BY STRIKING NOW IS HASTENING YOUR DEMISE AND ULTIMATELY MAKING YOUR SUFFERING WORSE, IDIOT.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 08:16 | 1384440 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

Why don't you look up the definition of SOCIALISM before you start spouting crap like this?

 

It would be much less embarrassing for you if you did.

EU is is not, has never been, and will probably never be socialist - it's capitalist, like the USA, like the UK, like Australia, hell it's even like China (state capitalist)

Maybe you should go and join the 4 years olds on Business insider - you'll fit right in there.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 09:03 | 1384535 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Unlimited welfare and jobless support for idle people is socialism.

" free" healthcare is socialism. Government old age subsidy is socialism.

What you refer to as socialism is more akin to communism.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 09:53 | 1384643 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

Socialism (as defined by Marx) is the transition from broken capitalism to communism when there is a 'dictatorship of the proletariate'. In itself it is not a political ideology - I suspect it's use came out of the US persecution of 'Communists' - so they changed their name to 'socialists' to fool the dumb and corrupt FBI.

 

That means when the working class take ownership of the means of production - and the last time I checked all the goods and services manufactured and sold from the EU or the US are PRIVATELY OWNED.

Ergo - NOT socialism.

Welfare payments, healthcare and government subsidy have NOTHING TO DO WITH SOCIALISM.

 

You have been outed as a fraud - you don't actually know what you're talking about - but running down 'socialism' probably wins you friends in your circles.

 

Seriously - you should do some research because at the moment you're like one of the kids who joins in picking on an other to gain favour - even though that kid has never done anything wrong to you.

 

No wonder Americans fear 'socialism' so much - 90% seem to have no idea what it is (other than a great evil which takes away your freedoms)

...which of course capitalism doesn't do (he says as the government prepare to bailout the banks AGAIN with wealth generated by the PEOPLE without them being able to do a thing about it)

 

Capitalism created the TBTF banks and now you blame 'socialism' for the ensuing mess???

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 10:27 | 1384696 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

"That means when the working class" and who is the working class exactly the people on Hartz IV in Germany, or striking union workers all over the world, the 3rd world immigrants sucking on all the benefits, the paper pushers in government offices ?

funny how basically all of the people who don't accually do any work get to be in the 'working class'

 

I know 1 thing,  no1 who accually does any value adding work supports socialism/communism

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 10:54 | 1384832 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I thought you were a socialist!  My apologies.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 12:29 | 1385091 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

You can deduce who is working class quite easily - Do they sell their labour for a wage.

"I know 1 thing,  no1 who accually does any value adding work supports socialism/communism"

Really? - you mean like the bankers, financial gamblers? - what value added work do they produce.

 

The very definition of 'working class' means that they are PRODUCTIVE - I suspect you are confusing 'value' with 'money' - which is why Capitalism collapses - eventually 'reality' brings the 'monetary value' back to 'true value' - hence the crash.

 

You make me laugh - you think that 'strikers' are not working class because they are freeloaders? - so why the hell do you moan about strikers? It seems to me if they are producing NOTHING then nobody will miss them.

 

Hence why you have NEVER seen a strike of bankers, financiers, 'capital blackmailers', ruling class bourgoisie etc. ertc. etc. - because if they went on strike - nobody would notice.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 10:53 | 1384826 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Marx is not the final arbiter of a definition.

Taxpayers bailing out banks is not capitalism, but a perversion of it.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 12:41 | 1385113 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

Marx ellaborated the fact that due to technology, competition and surplus value that companies continually chased a diminishing profit. This is because all profit comes from labour surplus value, there is no such thing as a 'profit' made without labour engaged in the process - that is merely blackmail (i.e. I have bought all the air for $50, you can have some for $100 - I 'profit' - but the value of the air is unchanged, I have done nothing other than withold it)

 

Taxpayers bailing out banks is an inevitable result of capitalism- I mean you don't have to be a genius to work out that a system where everyone is trying to accumulate the most capital - results in 2 things.

Those who have the most capital can obtain more - the easiest. (i.e. usuary/ banking)

The greatest capital accumulators will grow so large they will become TBTF - like Goldman Sachs for example.

 

To the capitalist Goldman Sachs are very, very successful - so successful that we cannot afford to let them fail. Creating a monopoly position is the aim of every capitalist - and yet in the fantasy of the free market Goldman would fail before they became monolithic (as they did).

 

I mean if there's one blatant example it's Microsoft - it stopped becoming innovative years ago - it just buys up whoever it wants and either develops or shelves it's innovation.

You can do that when you're on 95% of desktops in the world.

 

Nobody seems to have pointed out that Micrososft are also TBTF - I suspect that's because it's not convenient to the capitalist - even though Microsoft is abusing 'capitalism' through it's monopolistic position (which is why it keeps being taken to court)

So when does M/s 'fail' and get taken over by a 'younger, fitter and more slimline' model then eh?

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 04:05 | 1388193 raios_parta
raios_parta's picture

Sorry, but Portugal and Greece are not capitalist. They both have price controls, the state absorbs more than 50% GDP and controls many corporations, even "private" ones trough "golden shares", have huge sectors of the economy and professions completely barred to competition. Portugal and Greece are as far as socialism can go without a dictatorship.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 08:11 | 1384426 ivars
ivars's picture

Oil is moving into final dip as prediceted in february:

http://saposjoint.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2626&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p30486

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 08:18 | 1384446 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

When things get tough I have to lie...

RTRS-EUROGROUP'S JUNCKER: CLEAR THAT GREECE'S DEBT IS SUSTAINABLE
BUT WILL ONLY REMAIN SO IF GREECE COMPLIES WITH ALL COMMITMENTS

All clear for nice little melt up. Oh boy this guy is delusional...

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 10:52 | 1384825 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

The people will no longer work for such a corrupted regime that only looks to enslave the world population under meaningless debt.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 11:28 | 1384900 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

hilarious.  Fecal comparison theory in Euro's.  It will be worthless a few weeks after the other. That makes it gold.   By then the first one won't smell unless you touch it.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 04:03 | 1388189 raios_parta
raios_parta's picture

Sorry, but Portugal and Greece are not capitalist. They both have price controls, the state absorbs more than 50% GDP and controls many corporations, even "private" ones trough "golden shares", have huge sectors of the economy and professions completely barred to competition. Portugal and Greece are as far as socialism can go without a dictatorship.

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