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Precious Metals Break Out, Gold Passes $1,428, Dollars Away From All Time High, Silver Passes $34.50

Tyler Durden's picture




 

After a two month delay, gold is about to take out it all time high, silver has just passed $34.50, and, shockingly, the dollar is down as the Chairsatan drones on.

 

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Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:51 | 1007379 Mozzer
Mozzer's picture

I miss Johnny Bravo ;)

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:02 | 1007444 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Until he crawls out of his hole and joins us in celebration we can enjoy his alter ego.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:17 | 1007507 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I am expecting Math Man and willie the 'tard to show up any second.  Maybe if I say the below they will not bother to chime in:

Au to $0.02 !!

Ag to $0.01 !!

Thx Math and 'tard for not replying.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:19 | 1007564 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

BTW, have you guys seen GoldenMiddleFinger or RobotTrader recently? Their silent MIA is so deafening here.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:21 | 1007579 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"my hypocrisy only goes so far."

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:26 | 1007914 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Yah, Huh. Where did all the trolls go??

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:28 | 1007925 akak
akak's picture

Troll conference ---- hatching new strategies.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:52 | 1008055 bingaling
bingaling's picture

I disagree trolls can't hang here long because staring in the face of truth each day wears them down . You can't beat the truth .

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:22 | 1009150 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Early registration includes a free breakout sessions on lint abatement strategies for more effective umbilicus gazing.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:33 | 1007955 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

Did you see Turd?

RollingBearing does not even get flagged for this comment.

He must really feel bad now.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:06 | 1008125 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

They were overcome by their own hot air... and a dose of reality...

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:42 | 1008211 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGpajGj07BU

@ 0:23  "Why Blythe, you look like somebody just walked over your grave."

@ 2:20   "Poor soul, she was just too high strung."

@ 3:01  "My hypocrisy only goes so far."

@ 3:12  "Let's finish it!"

God I love that movie.

Ag 34.53, by all means, let's finish off the JP Morge.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:28 | 1009174 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

 

Ag 34.53, by all means, let's finish off the JP Morge.

I'm your Huckleberry!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:20 | 1007575 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Let me try to conjure them:

 

Beetlejuice!

Beetlejuice!

Beetlejuice!

 

Hmmmm... nope, nothing.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:27 | 1007600 benb
benb's picture

You Rang?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:01 | 1008376 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

+funny!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:28 | 1008196 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

DRCB: bbbbbut I read on "ZEROHEDGE.COM" that the ratio Au/Ag was supposed to be 12:1 ;-) - Ned

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:14 | 1007525 Cyrano de Bivouac
Cyrano de Bivouac's picture

He said(JB)that he would never post on ZH again if gold hit 1450.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:54 | 1007718 akak
akak's picture

He said(JB)that he would never post on ZH again

Yes --- under the name JohnnyBravo.

Do you really think that disingenuous, hate-filled, dishonest, malicious, pathetic excuse of a man would really honor any such pledge?  I don't for a second.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:17 | 1007562 Mozzer
Mozzer's picture

Thanks CG!  I needed that.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 22:04 | 1009838 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Johnny, Johnny, we miss you so much.  Is it time to sell gold and silver?  And are you still making gobs of money in the markets? 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:05 | 1007466 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

I don't. He would threadshit to the extreme - some threads would consist of nothing but posters flaming JB, and him responding in kind.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:12 | 1007511 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Doesn't remind you of anyone else?  A certain dumb bastard who replies to practically every post in a gold or silver thread?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:14 | 1007527 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

You mean like this?

Complete meltdown in PM sector today
RobotTrader - Thu, Feb 24, 2011 - 05:11 PM

But General Jim says not to worry.....

$1,450 is next, then Infinity and Beyond.

Hey, what happened to $1,650???

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:56 | 1007731 akak
akak's picture

For one.

Don't forget Leo Kolonasskiss either.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:16 | 1007861 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

I had the feeling that Leo's name would come up....

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:05 | 1007467 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

 

feel the burn, Blythe, feel the burn.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:25 | 1007589 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Think about it.  This is happening as Bernanke is testifying before Congress.  That just DOES NOT HAPPEN …. until today.

Have the Fed and their Bullion Bankster co-conspirators lost control of their ability to manipulate the paper price of Precious Metals at the COMEX? 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:12 | 1007518 velobabe
velobabe's picture

you are certainly, G A Y

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:23 | 1007590 Johrny Bravo
Johrny Bravo's picture

Right here Mozzer, Goled to $200 Bitchez!!!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 22:05 | 1009846 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Be still my heart.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:53 | 1007380 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

giggity giggity. The fun really begins now.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:00 | 1007437 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

are you suggesting we BTFQ?

 

buy the fucking quagmire that is...

 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:31 | 1007622 Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

Agreed!

Jim 'Fuckhead' O'Neill @ GS can be bullish now.

How does revolution offer any sort of stability and investment opportunities just like now in the ME?

These fucking people are deranged: death is bullish, life is bearish. Who cooked this up?

Celente calls them "Money Junkies" because streeters can't take a loss.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:53 | 1007382 bankrupt JPM bu...
Tue, 03/01/2011 - 20:20 | 1009515 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

heh, Should title that interview, "Eric Sprott endures another round of stupid questions put forth by an old fart without a clue."

Though I'll grant that the backwardation question was valid, and the other small thing that I have yet to see any real coverage (unless I've just missed it) here on ZH: THE CONSOLIDATION OF BOURSES!

Please excuse the yelling, just seems to me like such a huge move; ie the black rooks are positioning themselves to take out the last of our pawns... am I buggin' ya? Don't mean ta bug ya.

Regards

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:53 | 1007386 slow_roast
slow_roast's picture

Sell the dollar bitchez!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:09 | 1007809 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

Sell ALL FIAT, not just USD. War is imminent.

In a few days, you'll be so happy you held onto your silver...

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:54 | 1007387 HamyWanger
HamyWanger's picture

I've just sold on my gold on todays high. 

It was a pleasant move to ride, but now the time is to go long stocks.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:59 | 1007419 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Took some profits today as well.  34% profit over four months is pretty good.  However, it hurt me to sell some silver Kilos and 10oz coins.  Couldn't pass up the 38% settlement on credit card debt for CITI.  All credit card debt gone.  Still plenty of silver in the hole and more positions to be added soon.  Good bye corrupt bank funkers.  Glad to have them off me ass.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:05 | 1007474 TheDriver
TheDriver's picture

> All credit card debt gone.

Good for you, Richard.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:16 | 1007548 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Thanks The Driver.  I did shed a tear of happiness for the CC debt gone, but the loss of me Koalas caused another tear to flow in sadness. 

Now onto the house debt.  Jebus. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:05 | 1007775 gravitas
gravitas's picture

the loss of me Koalas caused another tear to flow in sadness

 

I feel your pain Richard. I keep telling myself that I ought to profit-take, and sell a portion of the physical I own (the extra money would come in handy right now).

But damned if I cannot part with even just an ounce... I never fully realized the difficulty I'd have trying to let some go.

 

I never understood what others meant by the "PM effect" until I started collecting it myself.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:19 | 1008166 mt paul
mt paul's picture

14 % of all credit cards 

are 90 days past due ..

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:15 | 1007547 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

Alt market my ass.

Every body should max their credit cards and buy PMs then tell TBTF to FO.

Get the bankrupcy out of the way and move on before the regulations can catch up. Is bankrupcy that bad or is it simply the banks PR telling you that?

\

Just think think through it.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:18 | 1007557 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Bankruptcy was a thought, but i figured a nice haircut to my creditors could be done on my own without the force of law behind it. Besides, the law doesn't exist anymore. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:50 | 1007701 LoneCapitalist
LoneCapitalist's picture

Doesnt paying for your own purchases count for anything? Some of you people are no better than the banks.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:05 | 1007782 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Do yourself a favor and do some research on what is considered Financial Consideration.  The credit card companies had NONE and didn't disclose that.  Credit card agreements lack three pieces of contractual law; financial consideration, full disclosure, and signed by both parties.

Judge all you want, but the law doesn't apply any more.  I didn't get bailed out, so I made my own bail out. 

Then again, ignorance is bliss, so keep telling yourself that educated individuals are just as bad as the banks.  They can go fuck yourself as can you.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:35 | 1007970 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Generally, contracts do NOT need to be signed by both parties - they only need to be signed by the party to be held accountable to the contract.  Further, it is possible to show acceptance through means other than by signature (such as by performance).

 

If you actually wanted to attack a credit card contract, the best grounds would probably be to claim it is illusory, as the contracts typically provide for unilateral changes by the credit card company. 

 

Disclaimer: not legal advice.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:44 | 1007999 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

What the fuck are you talking about...  I'm not even going to address the consideration issue...  (did you get something for your use of the credit card?  PMs perhaps?)...  A contract only needs to be signed by you to be enforced against you...  further, there are exceptions to the writing requirement...  such as part performance... 

Full disclosure and/or conscionability are about the only remote chance you have at a viable argument...  this is why reforms were made/attempted in regards to interest rates, fees, etc. 

There are too many armchair attorneys on this site...  reading a snip here or there on a blog somewhere and suddenly there is no financial consideration...  I hate to break it to you, but there was consideration...  just like the banks gave you consideration for your home...  the money is created by the FED and then other institutions borrow from it...  this has been discussed too many times to count...  but yet some motherfucker is always trying to ice skate uphill... 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:47 | 1008021 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

That is fine.  I appreciate your insight. I am just telling someone else what I did that got me to a 38% settlement. I am not giving out legal advice, just telling a story on what I had done. 

In either case, I could fucking care less now.  I'm out of credit card debt.  Bluffing with bull shit and profits from silver is what helped me do it. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:04 | 1008110 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

You need to add a disclaimer at the beginning that this was your ploy with the credit card companies... It needs to say "warning, total bullshit I used against full retard credit institutions and their even dumber collection agencies".

I congratulate you on your achievements...  the 1099 is going to hurt and won't be dischargeable...  but, at least some of it will be knocked out.  Not sure you're net ahead as far as time is concerned given the amount of money at stake...  pretty sure you could have flipped burgers just the same, but anyway...  I just wish your achievements would get us any place closer to the right to some semblance of common financial opportunity.  However, unfortunately, I'll be picking up the tab on your actions given I have to backstop the bank you defrauded...  so, thanks...  appreciate it. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:14 | 1008151 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

You are welcome.  Glad I could help.

Don't blame the player, blame the game.  

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:19 | 1008165 Chump
Chump's picture

"However, unfortunately, I'll be picking up the tab on your actions given I have to backstop the bank you defrauded..."

That sure is unfortunate.  Don't you want to unplug and do the exact same thing he did?

There's a word for it, it's on the tip of my tongue...

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:34 | 1008222 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I didn't have a choice on backstopping the banks that defrauded the entire system, so don't give me a your moral equivalency bullshit.  Could you suggest any other way of fighting these bastards?  Any ideas?  Or should I just take it up the ass as cost of living escalates beyond my wages increases thanks to the extra currency running through wall street?  Money that was used to solidify the theft of these primary dealer from EVERYONE, including you? 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:58 | 1008355 Chump
Chump's picture

I must not have been clear.  My mistake.

That you didn't have a choice in backstopping the banks IS the point.  The only choice we do have is to bend over and keep taking it, or say fuck it and embrace moral hazard fully.

I'm with you on this one.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:09 | 1008411 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

You were clear, but I took your words the wrong way.  Doing too much at once.  Sorry bout that.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:24 | 1008523 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

What I am saying is that your efforts do nothing to fix the problem given the government's mandated backstop.  In other words, about the only way to "starve the beast" is tax revolt.  Everything else is window dressing...  but no, I do not blame you...  I cannot rightfully impose a backstop upon you any more than our government can...  it's just that for the short-medium term, efforts such as yours make my day to day living that much more difficult because someone has to pick up the difference (until the fat lady sings of course).

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:58 | 1008345 LoneCapitalist
LoneCapitalist's picture

"Judge all you want"  I will, and forcing ANYBODY else to pay for YOUR purchases is WRONG. Justify all you want.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:25 | 1008531 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

OK

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:37 | 1008604 Chump
Chump's picture

Yup, so when the TBTFs went with hat in hand and asked us for TARP, we were all like, "no way, brah."  Then the TBTFs said, "ZOMG tanks in the streets, martial law, cats and dogs laying together!"  And we were still all like, "nah brah, YOU got the toxic debt, YOU handle it!"  And then Congress was all like, "yo, we'll just pass TARP anyway."

And now, 3 or so years later, instead of being at risk of seeing our financial industry go through a period of immense but non-lethal pain, we're instead "all-in" on sovereign debt, and not a single one of the underlying issues has been resolved.  We're ALL on the hook and paying for something we didn't want in the first place.

Check your morality.  Giving the finger to the government-bank cronies is good.  Taking ever more crony dick and trying to find new holes to store it all in is bad.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:08 | 1008814 tmosley
tmosley's picture

What force?  They gave their money freely according to contract.  Breaking a contract is not force.

The only force that came in to play was when the government bailed out the banks using tax dollars they "appropriated" from the American people by force.  That comes backed with force of arms, whether real or implied.

People MUST learn what does and does not constitute force if you ever want to understand which actions are good and which are evil.  Otherwise, you will be robbed blind and murdered in the murky darkness of ambiguity.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:18 | 1007866 Chump
Chump's picture

Are you surprised to see the spread of moral hazard?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:30 | 1007936 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

They started it when they decided to heist $23.7 Trillion from all of us.  Fuck them in the goat ass.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:11 | 1008139 Chump
Chump's picture

Ding ding.

Don't know how you arrived at $23.7T exactly, but the number does not affect the truth of your statement.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:36 | 1008235 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Here is one source Chump - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGx6K0DVKZ8

A couple of other links include Bloomberg, NY Post, Wall Street Journal.  Hell, give google a shot and type in 23.7 Trillion into the search engine.  In fact, here ya go - http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=23.7+trillion&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.1,or.&fp=2a7f0f52063b46e5

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:51 | 1008299 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

Two words: moral hazard. If the banks can walk away, why can't the sheeple?

I know it is more complicated than what I've stated but ....

Edit: Wow - I thought I was the first responding. Looks like a topic that does resonate with many.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:56 | 1007730 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

You do know they are going to 1099 you for the balance if they settled for less than face value of the debt.  

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:03 | 1007778 Chuck Norris
Chuck Norris's picture

If you can prove insolvency then you don't have to pay tax on the gain! 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:12 | 1007832 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Thanks.  I will be looking into that fo sure.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:07 | 1007790 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Tits ok.  I'll finger that out later.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:29 | 1007905 A Texan
A Texan's picture

Debt relief due to either bankruptcy or insolvency is not includible in income.  This is spelled out in Section 108 of the Internal Revenue Code.  http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/usc_sec_26_00000108----000-.html

 

HOWEVER, if you charge several thousand dollars on a CC for the purchase of silver or other PMs, and this is discovered, then you'll be forced to cough up either the value of the PMs or the PMs themselves, all of which will be divided up between your creditors by the bankruptcy trustee.  This may not apply to purchases made more than 90 days prior to declaring bankruptcy - so long as there was no fraud involved.  I would be careful about this, and consult legal counsel before doing anything if you were contemplating going down the bankruptcy path.

 

Note that none of the above constitutes legal advice.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:31 | 1007940 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Thankfully I have not used these cards in over a year and have been living without using credit.  Cash only basis.  Buy my silver from coin shops nowadays.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:49 | 1008038 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Remember when talking with your attorney that any proposal by you to commit a crime/fraud in the future will likely render your attorney-client privilege impotent.  In fact, depending on what it is, he may have a duty to report your plans.  So, when speaking to an attorney, it is imperative that you simply inquire as to the law, rather than spell out your plans.  Hypotheticals help in gray areas.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:04 | 1008107 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Wait a second.  You are making assumptions. This alleged debt was gathered during the go-go years of 2005-2008 and was being serviced quite well by me.  No fraud committed here.  Financial insolvency hit me hard and then my eyes were opened wide the with opening salvo of TARP.  Servicing the debt became nearly impossible.  Choice between food and credit cards at that time.  At no time were the alleged purchases made with the intent to default.  I was doing fine until I saw the banksters ride away with a bag of loot while the Sheriff cleared the path of brush to let the horses get away. Rising prices of necessities were greater than my rising (a lack thereof) wages. 

Do appreciate your help, but I am simply trying to wipe the slate clean.  In no time was I under oath during my conversations with these credit card companies or their affiliate collection companies.  Again, I needed to clean the slate and bankruptcy was not in the cards yet. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:07 | 1008124 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Right...  but the obvious question I would ask would be, what did you do with the PMs?  Again, speak nothing of yourself and only ask hypothetical questions...  this may not be enough, but it can't hurt...

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:20 | 1008167 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

This whole thread started with the fact of me stating that the PMs were sold and the proceeds used to pay off the credit settlement. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:26 | 1008538 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I trust that all the paperwork matches and your gain on the sale will be reported to the IRS?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:40 | 1008254 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Defaulting is your right under the credit contract.  In fact, there are specific terms in there about what constitutes your default and what the CC companies may do about it.

I've got no problem with it; cannot figure out why the masses have such a peasant's mentality regarding debt, as if money owed to a BANK of all places is sacrosanct and must be repaid no matter what.

Banks themselves default and people just fucking shrug.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:09 | 1008417 LoneCapitalist
LoneCapitalist's picture

Thinking that people should pay for their own purchases, is a "peasants mentality"? It sounds like you have an elitists mentality.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:28 | 1008553 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Defaulting isn't the issue...  literally as long as contracts have been around, the right to default on them has been closely tagging along (of course, you have to pay for the breach...).  The issue is the method of default...  there are permitted methods and prohibited methods...  I believe the latter is more inline with what happened in the present case...  (and what will happen).

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 18:53 | 1009259 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Considering you wish to support the elite at the expense of free men, you sound a lot more elitist to me.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 20:24 | 1008157 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

++(hypothetically)

"I got effed by (Insert CC co. here), now (Insert CC co. here) can go eff themselves."

Language Warning:

http://www.thesixtyone.com/s/MMd7WhFDstJ/

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:44 | 1008008 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

I agree. I would not buy PM with CC if you are going to try and fuck them. They will come at you over this one. Best thing to do is get cash withdrawals on it, then go and buy the PM somehow, the less trails the better off you are .  PM's to banks are a fuzzy area. They really don't understand it and can't really deal with it that well since it is so moveable and hard to trace etc . This is the beauty of PM. It is real money and it is your money and nobody can do a damn thing about it because you control your own money.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:32 | 1008206 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

If you take out cash from the CC they don't know what you bought.  Whoops didn't see your post above before mine.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:47 | 1007690 Jaw Knee Cash
Jaw Knee Cash's picture

~Every body should max their credit cards and buy PMs then tell TBTF to FO.~

Those card debts would then be non-dischargable in a BK proceeding. The BK debtor would also have to commit fraud on the asset disclosures. Laws are still enforced against us commoners. Bad advice all around.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:15 | 1007848 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I agree with you.  I just want to be free of debt. I'm not looking to be rich.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:16 | 1008462 LoneCapitalist
LoneCapitalist's picture

I want to be free of debt as well. So, Im paying it off myself. Over the years you have (as well as everyone else) had to pay someone elses debt who refused to pay it themselves. Was that justified? No. And this isnt either.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:21 | 1007573 Circlehook
Circlehook's picture

Can you give me a little info on your 38% settlement?  How did you get that?  Thanks

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:34 | 1007636 Bob
Bob's picture

Stop paying.  When they finally get around to harassing you, you talk them down.  If you give them cash within a short period, they mark the debt way down. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:27 | 1007912 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Make sure you get it in writing from them about this new deal they are making with you, so that in the future any zombie debt collector will not try and come at you for the balance of the account and believe me, this happens all the time.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:29 | 1007930 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Got it indeed, as well as recorded conversations.  The collection companies HATE when you tell them you are recording.  In Ohio I don't have to tell them as we are a on-party consent state, but I still tell them to piss em off.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:35 | 1007959 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Yeh they hate it when you tell them they are being recorded. It makes them nervous. Yes you did it right. No doubt. The zombies will come along later though and try to harass you over this alleged debt, mark my words even though you have settled.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:50 | 1008050 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Which is hilarious...  how did you gain a claim to the debt that was paid? lol...  I think you need to contact your salesman and inquire as to what you purchased...

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:53 | 1008058 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Believe me, those assholes try and they do this all the time. Sometimes they even sue you over debt that you have discharged through bankrutpcy, I kid you not.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:10 | 1008134 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Yeah, I know...  i have to defend people sometimes on it...  but, it's just hilarious to me how ridiculous everything has become...  It's strange to think that fraud at an institution or two can spread so rapidly throughout the entire world, eventually becoming the norm.  I realize the lion's share can probably be chalked up to the complexity of the system, paperwork requirements, and the general level of intelligence of the actors performing the work...  but, still...

I'm not sure who's worse...  the purveyors or the idiots dumb enough to buy their snake oil...  I think a return to caveat emptor can help the latter...  but the former requires cleaning house.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:24 | 1008177 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

I used to hang out on credit card debtors blogs and I used to read about this stuff all the time.  I haven't been over there in a while but I am sure things are not getting any better. People around here sometime say well just max out your credit cards and walk away. I am here to say that it is not just that easy. Debt is debt and it never goes away. There are only a few ways of dealing with it, either pay it, or settle it, or discharge it in bankruptcy. Until one of these three methods are done, it never goes away and even though you may now not have anything , maybe one day you will and when that day comes, along comes the debt collector with a message for you. This can happen when you are alive or when you die, it doesn't matter to them........

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:29 | 1008202 Bob
Bob's picture

Do you wish you had gone BK?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:47 | 1008284 trav7777
trav7777's picture

wow...debt is easy to walk away from, just stop paying.

They can garnish your wages, but to do so, they have to find out where you work.  Most people are dumb enough to put their real workplace on various things they fill out which end up getting submitted to credit agencies.

See, you're hanging yourself with your own rope. 

However, going forward, companies are pulling credit checks and forget security clearances if you deadbeat*.  Michael Vick gets a fucking redemption tour for serving 1.5 yrs for his rap, but if you or I had that conviction on our records, we'd be lucky to get a job EVER again.

*(unless you are the right skin color, aka nonwhite)

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:39 | 1008620 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Most likely, they end up with a default judgment...  in which case (in the event of any judgment) the defendant/debtor will be required by law to truthfully state all property, place of work, etc...  or else face contempt charges and jail.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:06 | 1008802 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

It is true now. They require a complete credit check on you before you get any job now. I mean even for rinky dink jobs. Even for rinky dink jobs they send you over to some private investigation outfit and they give you a freakin anal exam for a stupid job paying 10.00 a hour etc.

 

Oh so you think you can hide from them hun? Ha ha. We shall see about that one. Even if you work under the radar so to speak, one of these days you will have to surface for air etc and when you do, guess who will be waiting with open arms....?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 20:02 | 1009476 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

This is what the strategic defaulters don't understand about credit histories...  win lose or draw, your default is still there...  and, presuming we get to a point where fruitful labor is plentiful and viable again, then you'll be picked last...  by whatever creditor/employer emerges...

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:53 | 1008063 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

"I think you need to contact your salesman and inquire as to what you purchased..."

Pure gold.  Loved it.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:58 | 1008344 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

CC debt is like mortages - sliced, diced and sold to multiple players. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:08 | 1008812 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Its true. but that is something you have to prove. To my knowledge no one has ever done this because it would require a lot of man hours and expense to prove this. But it can be done but so far, I don't think anyone has done it because naturally most cc debtors would not be in the shape they are in, if they had the money.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:38 | 1007986 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

If you are going to stop paying then by all means stop. Do not under any circumstances make any payments after you have stopped. All this does is start up the contract again and you are basically admitting that this is your debt etc...........

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:32 | 1008220 Bob
Bob's picture

Unknowingly "reaffirming" an old debt to life is a tragedy.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:11 | 1007817 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Stopped paying for four months.  Wrote letters to ask the credit card issuer to send me a copy of the signed contract, by both parties.  They responded with a Credit Card User Agreement with no signatures anywhere.  I would then write in or tlak to them on the phone and ask for a signed contract.  I would also tell them thathe User Agreement doesn't show any financial consideration on the part of the credit card issuer and does not disclose what their financial consideration was (there was was none as the debt was created with my signature and bank never lent out its reserves).

When the accountfinally moved to a collection account I played the same song and dance, explained my insolvency, and asked if they would accept less.  Negotiated that down and told them what I could afford to settle the account now otherwise I would need to see the signed contract between both parties.  Collection company works under premise of something if better than nothing. 38% is what the settled ammount was.  $4,500 on $11,600 (I guess it is closer to 39%).  There was my bailout.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:25 | 1007887 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Signed contract doesn't matter anymore. They go with account stated. The best thing to do is get a good credit card lawyer and they work for a set fee and they tie it up in court and  the CC company never sees a dime. In my opinion, it is best to do it this way than bankruptcy where you have to go in and talk to your rich uncle about it. By the way, yes settling with them is a good method if you can do it. Some of them like Citibank won't do it etc. It does however mess up your credit for 7 years, if that is important to you. If anyone wants to play this game, the best thing to do is be sure you are in a strong consumer oriented state and that you do not have any real property or other assets in your name. Once you do this, then you can go play the game. After a while you will be borrowing from peter to pay paul. It gets old very fast. At least they don't have debtors prison here yet............

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:26 | 1007915 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I agree with you, but I am sick and tired of fighting.  Just wanted to clean the slate and move on the best and quickest way that I could. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:33 | 1007947 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Well whatever works for you is fine of course.  Fighting is what they do and they do it all day long into the evening up till 8:00 PM.  The best thing for people to do is also to get rid of their old phone numbers and get another one with unlisted number. 90 percent of their game is phone calls. Once you eliminate that, you have eliminated 90 percent of their game. Then they are reduced to making threats and etc by written letter and they hate this because all correspondence is in writing and it could possibly go against them perhaps in any future court action.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:56 | 1008040 Bob
Bob's picture

My kid is a lawyer who works with debtors in Michigan.  As you say, they don't have to produce a contract.  She doesn't go to Court, however, because (in Michigan at least) there is no defense except that you don't owe it, but the burden would be on you to either prove it in court or you go home with the same Judgment against you that you get if you don't go to court.  Key is to settle before Court, because once they have a Judgment they will get the full amount plus costs out of you before too long if you have a trackable employment income stream.  A garnishment is guaranteed in that case and you won't like the amount they'll take from your check and it will not be negotiable. 

Settling before they file in Court is pretty much the only good option--outside of bankruptcy--for people who have jobs.

In my kid's experience, however, if you face a lot of separate credit card debts (regardless of amount, even if a couple hundred bucks), you should file for bankruptcy if you qualify.  People worry about a BK ruining their credit, but if you've already defaulted on credit cards, your credit is equally screwed regardless.  Every time I call my kid I have to listen to her rants about the idiot client she just talked with for the tenth time telling them to file for bankruptcy but they are again going to hit their 401k to temporarily stem the tide.   File BK. 

Simple fact: If you've missed a couple payments on any of your cards, your credit is already screwed as it can get.  You aren't going to enjoy the primary benefit of good credit--getting a loan--for a very long time.

I'm waiting on a call back from daughter on CITI--I know that some weeks CITI features prominantly in her rants, but I don't remember the details. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:56 | 1008077 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

I will tell you something Bob. Citi are the worst assholes in the history of the credit card universe and believe me when I tell you this. She will know full well on this. They come and they keep coming and they never stop and the only way to slay this dragon is a stake through the heart and even then they get up, come back to life and come back for more unless you can get a judgment with prejudice against them and this is rare because the damn judges are usually more or less on their side, since I suspect, many of them get money for their reelection campaigns from you know who. citi bank....

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:01 | 1008098 Bob
Bob's picture

A most evocative description of your trauma, man.  I feel for ya.  What's the story--multiple accounts with them?  The Court didn't issue continuances on your cases, right? 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:17 | 1008147 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

I made a mistake. I will admit it. I tried to slay this dragon on my own and I got fucked. Summary judgment even though I did all the things that lawyers do, I still got my ass handed to me on it. So for this one bank  I would tell anyone that will listen. For them, I would get help, no doubt about it. The old saying goes. A fool has himself for  a client. When you go in there to try and defend yourself , the judge will just about ignore you as if you are not there even though you present good and qualifiable arguments. Now having said that, we can also comment on the fact that this stupid summary judgment stuff is a violation of the texas constitution, but who cares right. The judge sides with the CC company almost everytime , at least in this county. I should have known better. I got smoke blown up my ass by pro se "experts" on the net and I paid for it. I did the work and I did the preparation. Proper preparation prevents poor performance, no doubt, however this only works when you are a lawyer in the courtroom bar and not a pro se person, unless, and this is a big unless (and there are people like this) you raise holy hell and demand your rights under the law and make sure you make the record. This being my first case and my last, I of course was not as prepared as I thought. But I digress. This is my story of a case gone bad. So now they get hosed by the second wave, bankruptcy........to citi i send all of my love......and kisses.......

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:40 | 1008250 Bob
Bob's picture

Hear ya on the pro se bullshit.  Been there, done that.  Actually, I  had long cases where I handed their asses to them, but that's completely irrelevant to credit card debt.  The Judge don't wanna hear it and he's strangely disinterested in your valiant efforts to carve new legal theories onto the Judicial landscape.  

Ouch, sorry you learned the hard way!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:46 | 1008276 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Hence the reason for me settlement.  Worth selling some silver to get them off me ass.  Needed a redo and it looks as if that is done. 

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:12 | 1008828 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

What bank were you dealing with, if you don't mind me asking. Citibank as is my understanding will not deal with anyone and are hard asses to the end. In Texas their gunslingers are located in Lubbock Texas and go by the name of Allen L Adkins & Associates.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:59 | 1009085 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Twas TITI, I mean CITI.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 21:55 | 1009811 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

I can't believe it. You are the first person I ever heard of that got a settlement agreement from them . Wow things must be changing a bit.....Perhaps they are getting more desperate. Most of these default judgments they get are not worth the paper they are written on and never will be. Nevertheless they continue on doing what it is they do, like some machine. That is what I used to call them. A machine that grinds on and on. I see the winning tons of these default judgments and I wonder why they do it. There must be some balance sheet dressing up going on, that is the only thing I can figure. You take some poor Mexican on the hook to them for say oh about $6000.00 and they come in here and sue them and get a default judgment. What are the chances they will ever get any money out of that?  Not much....

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:48 | 1008292 trav7777
trav7777's picture

only 4 months?

Next time stop paying for like 24 months.  If they get you on the phone, tell them to call Obama and then hang up.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 15:58 | 1008335 AVP
AVP's picture

Dr. Head you do know that you will receive a 1099 next January for $7,100.00 (earned income).

This is a ploy, because the banks will write off the portion you didn't pay and the Government

considers that earned income.

 

Good luck...

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:12 | 1008433 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Fully understand that.  The tax that I will have to pay on that earned income will indeed be much less than $7,100.  That will have to be filed by April of 2012?  I can wait.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:24 | 1008520 AVP
AVP's picture

I thought you might. But just wanted to let others in that situation understand that

settlements on CC debt are not black and white as these offers of settlement by the banks

would have most believe.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 17:14 | 1008834 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Yes I was going to say something about that. The difference between the settlement amount and the total debt will be called debt forgiveness and will show up as a 1099-C.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:36 | 1007976 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Just curious. What bank are you having a problem with?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:59 | 1007423 cswake
cswake's picture

Value socks like Hanes & Fruit of the Loom or quality socks like Ralph Lauren Purple Label?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:59 | 1007424 Blythes Master
Blythes Master's picture

Brilliant!!!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:01 | 1007448 pods
pods's picture

Hamy, you know Harry would not tell everyone where he was going.

You have to wait until the next peak until you tell everyone that you went there when you sold at the top of the previous peak.

That way you are never wrong.

pods

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:23 | 1007583 monkeys.pick.bottoms
monkeys.pick.bottoms's picture

I respect your balls and I am saddened by apparent lack of survival instinct.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 16:02 | 1008377 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

hamy your full of shit you never bought gold or silver and your sure the hell didn't sell today either. your just blythe's propaganda puppet.  but make me eat my words and show us the comment of when you bought some.  remember im from missouri lolol

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:57 | 1007400 HamyWanger
HamyWanger's picture

William the bastard, Biggus Dickus and JohnyBravo (Math Man) are on the march.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:01 | 1007447 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

You look smaller and smaller to me as the price of gold and silver go higher and higher.  Do you think there's a correlation?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:43 | 1008003 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

It's Hamy damnit!

not Harry....

laugh. it's ok.

junk Hamy for fun if you wish but LAUGH.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:28 | 1007403 FoieGras
FoieGras's picture

I love buying stuff on new highs. My buy stop for GC APR contracts is 1436. Let's see if we can make it there.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:57 | 1007405 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

Time to SHORT! OIL GOLD SILVER NASDAQ EM S&P...you get my drift! And...am sure

to get clobbered right now...BUY EL DOLLAR...even if only short term but that short on the buckeye is sooo crowded now, it just screams for a squeezzzeeee! Eh?!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 22:09 | 1009857 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Don't forget Treasuries.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:57 | 1007406 philgramm
philgramm's picture

Serious question for my metals friends.  I have approximately 60/40 split in silver/gold physical.  I want to trade some silver for gold (Just personal preference at this time).  Is there a way to do that without having to sell the silver first and then buying gold?  I bought both metals online from a couple of reputable dealers.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:03 | 1007460 Blythes Master
Blythes Master's picture

go to tulving dot com

 

he trades one metal for the other

 

disc: I do business with tulving, but am in no way affiliated

 

Good Luck!!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:09 | 1007495 pods
pods's picture

You would probably have to do that local at a coin shop.  Some would be more than happy to do that for you.  That is why it is good to pick up some stuff local from time to time.

And you get to talk to other nutjobs for nothing!

Win, win!

pods

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:12 | 1007523 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Your stuff, but I would advise against it.

60/40 is a great place to be.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:17 | 1007560 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

++++

Isn't that what's called a diversified portfolio?

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:17 | 1007552 SPONGE
SPONGE's picture

I have pondered this also. I plan on selling some Ag and trading it for Au as the Au/Ag ratio approaches 20. I haven't talked to my local coinshop dealer yet, but I am going to ask him if he would do the trade with only one commission instead of one for the sale and one for the purchase.

   Depending on the market at the time, you might find an online dealer that would be willing to do this.

   At a lower Au/Ag ratio, the portability of Au will be of more importance to me than the increased upside potential of Ag.

   Good luck

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:44 | 1007676 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

The ratio could go lower.  You might wait a while.  I don't think this move is over. Matter of fact it just started. We say see  $40.00 silver.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 22:12 | 1009873 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Think about it.  I wish I had that ratio.  Silver is moving toward the old 15:1 ratio.  It's the hottest thing going.  Wait a while and you can get a lot more gold for your silver.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:58 | 1007416 camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

Wow HamyWanger, bad move. Stocks crash after the Gov runs out of money Friday.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 13:47 | 1007687 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

gov's ran out of money "thirty five years ago."  stocks go higher.  and i'm saying "raise cash" btw.

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:11 | 1007820 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

If you knew in advance that a life altering event was about to change the entire world forever, would you sell your stocks? Just curious. I want TD to do a poll about this right NOW!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 14:29 | 1007927 still kicking
still kicking's picture

YES!

Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:58 | 1007421 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Strange but I haven't seen Robotrader or any of the other anti-Gold punks lately. They must all be on vacation or something.

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