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Prepare To Give Up All Private Data For Any Gold Purchase Over $100
A week ago, when we reported on a move by the Dutch central bank that ordered a pension fund to forcibly reduce its gold holdings, we speculated that "this latest gold confiscation equivalent event is most certainly coming to a banana republic near you." And while we got the Banana republic right, the event that we are about to describe is not necessarily identical. It is much worse. A bill proposed in the State of Washington (House Bill 1716), by representatives Asay, Hurst, Klippert, Pearson, and Miloscia, whose alleged purpose is to regulate secondhand gold dealers, seeks to capture "the name, date of birth, sex, height, weight, race, and address and telephone number of the person with whom the transaction is made" or said otherwise, of every purchaser of gold in the state of Washington. Furthermore, if passed, Bill 1716 will record "a complete description of the property pledged, bought, or consigned, including the brand name, serial number, model number or name, any initials or engraving, size, pattern, and color or stone or stones" and of course price. But the kicker: if a transaction is mode for an amount over $100, which means one tenth of an ounce of golds, also required will be a "signature, photo, and fingerprint of the person with whom the transaction is made." In other words, very soon Washington state will know more about you than you know about yourself, if you dare to buy any gold object worth more than a C-note. How this proposal is supposed to protect consumers against vulture gold dealers we don't quite get. Hopefully someone will explain it to us. We do, however, get how Americans will part with any and all privacy if they were to exchange fiat for physical. And in a police state like America, this will likely not be taken lightly, thereby killing the gold trade should the proposed Bill pass, and be adopted elsewhere.
While we are confident that representatives Asay, Hurst, Klippert, Pearson, and Miloscia have no clue why they are even proposing this bill, we would also be delighted to find out which moneyed interests they represent, and what happens to precious metal trading in America should Bill 1716 become a legal precedent which is effectively the first step before the final implementation of Executive Order 6102 version 2.
Full bill (pdf)
h/t Brandon Schroer
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That's fair, but Balmer is mostly incompetent. And I do believe that Gates was "semi-retired" when he tried to confiscate the guns. Never trust Gates, even if he claims to be retired, or semi-retired.
1929:
Charles Davenport is Director of the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, funded by the American ruling class, notably the Carnegie family, and located on the Dulles family estate on Long Island, New York.
At Cold Spring Harbor, Davenport created the notorious Eugenics Record Office, funded by the Harrimans, to organize ze creation of ze master race.
Davenport publishes Race Crossing in Jamaica, a supposedly scientific text purporting to prove biological and cultural degradation following interbreeding between white and black populations.
In order to promulgate racism disguised as science, Davenport ruthlessly twists and misrepresents data.
Davenport maintains close links with institutions and individuals in Nazi Germany and holds editorial positions on two influential German "scientific" journals.
One of Davenport's most important Nazi collaborators is Otto Reche, who will become an important figure in the Nazi scheme to "remove" those humans considered "inferior".
For half a century prior to 1929, Wall Street's most powerful law firm, Sullivan and Cromwell has provided, for a price, the legal smokescreens behind which a large proportion of the U.S. ruling class have done their dirty work.
Following the First World War, the "international finance specialists" of Sullivan and Cromwell are none other than Rockefeller cousins John Foster and Allen Dulles. Both are violently anti-Semitic and boycott their sister’s wedding because she is marrying, gasp, a Jew.
The Dulles brothers, both of whom had been involved in the drafting of the Treaty of Versailles which systematically bankrupted Germany after World War One, organize a shadowy financial network which funnels enormous amounts of American gold and capital to finance the rise of the Nazis in Germany.
The Dulles brothers set up numerous agreements for IG Farben, developers and manufacturers of Zyklon-B gas to be used in the extermination of Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, socialists, homosexuals and other “sub-humans”.
John Foster Dulles sits on the IG Farben board of directors which supports the Nazi party because it opposes genuine free enterprise and favors the establishment of slave labor camps to make industrial production “more efficient”. Farben will become a leading player in the Nazi atomic bomb project.
In addition to arranging financing of ventures inside Nazi Germany, the Dulles brothers organize a labyrinth of hundreds of corporations in the United States and Central and South America to provide fronts behind which Farben and other Nazi companies can operate secretly when war comes.
Among them are the pharmaceutical and chemical companies Bayer, Agfa, Schering, Winthrop and Sterling.
A secret agreement is arranged by Sullivan and Cromwell under which the Rockefellers’ Standard Oil will collect royalty payments on thousands of patents for IG Farben, even after the U.S. goes to war with Germany.
A massive investment in Nazi Germany is made by the U.S. ruling class while the United States itself languishes in the Great Depression and tens of millions of Americans are unemployed and losing their homes, farms and businesses to the banks owned by the Rockefellers and their clubmates.
After the Nazis seize power in Germany with arms and financing supplied by the Rockefellers, the Harrimans, the Duponts and other members of the U.S. ruling class, with the help of their minions such as the Bush family, the Nazis begin their "Aryanization" program under which Jews are forced to sell their business assets for a small percentage of their true value to "Aryans".
Many American corporations are quick to cash in their markers with the Nazis by sticking their snouts in the "Aryanization" trough, none more avidly so than the Ford Motor Company under one the world's most rabid anti-Semites, Henry Ford.
Lie upon lie upon lie upon visitations of de and inhuman treatments. And these are the most vaunted companies in the world.Thanks for all your informative posts. I really enjoy them.
ORI
boo hoo, poor jooz...always the victims
Hey man, you’re an intelligent guy. Wake up to being gamed. A lot of these heavy hitter ‘Jooz’ as you call them are not much more than cut-outs, tools, and fronts in the elaborate media propaganda theater. Jamie Boy Dimon, The Bernanke, and my personal favorite – that most nauseating fascist senator from Tel Aviv, Joe Leiberman are just playing their part in this Peasant’s Soap Opera. Yes they get (by our standards) fabulous kickbacks, perks, privileges, et cetera. They are portrayed as being in control. They do seem to screw us over all day long. But they do not set the agenda.They go around acting like they are protected from Satan from above, because they are! As I understand there are different factions at the top of the pyramid some are of Jewish decent. They aren’t really Jews though. They’re mostly Satanic freaks. The rank and file ‘joos’ as you call them are going to get screwed just as hard as everybody else. DP mentions a few of the Top Dog Families in his above post such as the Robber Barons and their descendents like the Harrimans. Add in the British and Dutch Royals, the Habsburgs, the Rothchilds, and that’s who in part control this planet along with about 200 of the scientific elite engaged in running the Global eugenics program.
Divide and Conquer Bitchez!
ahhh, but the TRUE enemy has yet to show his face, yet, he is right under your nose where he has been for the last 3,000 years.. yet no one dare mention his name. use your instincts , look at the TRUE history of the west, and he will revel himself to you.
Spill the beans,
Absolutely spot on ben. Even Job's rise is such a scripted thing. The whole of the last century was full of these clay footed giants, all made up, arranged.
ORI
The more I look the more come to understand how jacked the media really is and how shaped and controlled the public has become. I don’t know how it’s looking on the street on your side of the planet but over here it really is in many respects mirroring The Matrix. (That movie script of course was based upon an actual USAF White Paper from the 1970s) …It’s rather eerie.
Batteries Bitchez!
History... so easy to ignore!
1951:
Yes, Prescott, there is a Santa Claus.
Prescott Bush, whose recent run for the Senate has been unsuccessful following revelations about his role in the American eugenics movement, hits the jackpot.
Front man and errand boy for the Harriman and Rockefeller families in their business dealings with the Nazis from 1926 to 1951, including the period throughout World War II, Bush neatly evades prosecution with the legal assistance of ever-present Nazi shyster and fellow Hitler Project luminary Allen Dulles.
Instead of doing hard time in the slammer for treason, Bush is handed about $1.5 million in Nazi assets, primarily shares of the Nazi front Union Banking Corporation, which had been seized in 1942 under the Trading With The Enemy Act.
The Nazi cash forms a big chunk of the Bush family fortune and will doubtless be of much help to Bush's son, George "Bailout" Bush, and his grandson, George "I'm A Lyin' Guy" Bush, in their successful quests for the presidency of the United States.
But Prescott Bush and his father-in-law, Herbert Walker, are only minority shareholders and front men of the Nazi front Union Banking Corporation. It is really owned by none other than Roland and Averell Harriman along with a host of other Nazi operations which had been seized under the Trading With The Enemy Act.
These include the
Holland-American Trading Corporation, the
Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation and the
Silesian-American Corporation which used slave labor from Auschwitz.
The estimated value of the Harrimans' Nazi assets is three billion dollars, a staggering amount of money in 1951.
John J. McCloy, Rockefeller lawyer, adviser to Benito Mussolini and overseer of the non-bombing of American and German-owned Nazi armaments factories during World War II in his capacity as High Commissioner of occupied West Germany, commutes the sentences of all the Nazi industrialists convicted at the Nuremburg war crimes trials.
Shortly thereafter, concentration camp "doctors", SS mass murderers and war criminals of all stripes will be released under McCloy's orders after serving only fractions of their sentences.
The vast majority of German war criminals as well as the American industrialists, financiers and lawyers who financed and armed Nazi Germany will remain happily unprosecuted.
About ten thousand Nazis of one kind or another will be brought to the United States so that their invaluable skills may be employed by the U.S. government, its military and covert warfare agencies (CIA).
Under National Security directive PSBD-33/2, the Truman regime establishes the Psychological Strategy Board (PSB), whose works and papers, for reasons which can only be surmised, are held secret from the American people to the present day.
The PSB is a creature of the three main Hitler Project organizers and financiers, Averill Harriman, Allen Dulles and John Foster Dulles.
The PSB's purpose is to centralize and coordinate the psychological warfare operations of the CIA, the Department of "Defense" and the U.S. State Department, conducting "extensive propaganda campaigns and mass-psychology experiments within the U.S.A., and paramilitary campaigns abroad".
In other words, carrying out psychological warfare against the people of the United States.
Appointed director of the PSB is Gordon Gray, heir to the R.J. Reynolds tobacco fortune and sponsor of the child sterilization programs carried out by the American eugenics movement in North Carolina following World War II.
............................................................
Yes... trav7777... There is a Santa Claus and he has, over decades, had many, many more than the 19 Magic Elves you strongly believe in.
Man, the Dulles Bros, the Bushes, Averell Harriman, and most especially those diabolical F-ing Rockefellers have been a monstrous tumor on the People of the United States. These traitors could not have made it 10 steps without a greased up government and a controlled media.
That eugenics crew is really inept. We've got over 6 billion people on the planet now with the projection of 9 billion in 40 years. Get a new management team in at Eugenics, Inc. Get some consultants.
No sweat Holms, help is on the way. 2nd generation male rats that were fed Monsanto’s BT Corn are being reported as having purple colored testicles (In lieu of pink) all sorts of health problems, and of course a high rate of sterility. Next time you urinate you might want to check yourself. What the hey, check the kids too.
Monsanto Cares, Bitchez!
Bill is a typical Dem Geek, at least I will say he DOES put HIS money where his mouth is.
This is not like most Dems.I know the GOP and Dems are almost alike, but in one or two respects, there is a gulf the size of the Atlantic difference.
The bill is probably sponsored by California Numismatic Investments :-)
Time to vote, throw, remove Asay, Hurst, Klippert, Pearson, and Miloscia from office and any other politician that supports this nonsense!
Here is the website for the lead dingbat... http://houserepublicans.wa.gov/members/katrina-asay/
and her qualifications:
Katrina Asay - Occupation: Realtor
Yet another real estate novelist who doesn't understand the interplay between land, lead, and gold.
What a sorry looking sack of shit she is.
What is wrong with these stupid assholes anyway?
Apparently, you are not "thinking of the children!" This nonsense is more Nanny-State mollycoddling to keep all those bad thieves, burglars, etc from profiting from their lives of crime (all the while, Wall St steals more in seconds than petty criminals could ever make in a lifetime!)
Vote.. heh. that's funny. We get a purely symbolic defunding of obamacare (read: Kabuki), and you think voting is going to work.. Did you read the story about the Lybian protesters hanging the cops?
Yeah, they voted like our ancestors did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3MkK0rpxk0&feature=related
Here is how to get around the law.
I suffered through a reading of the bill. A second hand dealer is defined as someone who buys at swaps or flea markets three or more times a year. I smell a large private market developing. We have had gun shows and trading fairs. Welcome to the Gold Fair!
So who is going to keep count if you attend more than three gold shows per year?
Ah, the sweet smell of loophole freedom.
As a law-abiding citizen you will of course comply with these fair & reasonable administrative requests. It will be your simple pleasure to assist the administration in ensuring the accuracy of their public records. It is for your own protection. The insurance companies will need this information in order to prevent fraudulent claims, & to track the proceeds of crime. We need this data to be able to present you with our 'special offers'. We are here to help. What could possibly go wrong? We are REALLY here to help. Four legs good, two legs bad. (Ooops, forget I said that! It's only a typo. Really.)
That's one down, now for silver ...
Heh heh..
Yup...
New inflation tracking bitchez - The Billion Prices Project @ MITThe Billion Prices Project is an academic initiative that collects prices from hundreds of online retailers around the world on a daily basis to conduct economic research. We currently monitor daily price fluctuations of ~5 million items sold by ~300 online retailers in more than 70 countries.
This webpage showcases examples of average inflation indexes that we created to illustrate the type of statistical work that can be done with this type of data. Our team is currently working on developing econometric models that leverage the data to forecast future trends and conduct economic research.
Daily Price IndexesThese indexes are designed to provide real-time information on major inflation trends, not to forecast official inflation announcements. We are constantly adding new categories of goods, but we do not cover 100% of CPI goods and services. The price of services, in particular, are not easy to find online and therefore are not included in our statistics.
Methodology
Data collection: our data are collected every day from online retailers using a software that scans the underlying code in public webpages and stores the relevant price information in a database. The resulting dataset contains daily prices on the full array of products sold by these retailers. Our data include information on product descriptions, package sizes, brands, special characteristics (e.g. “organic”), and whether the item is on sale or price control.
Daily Online Price Index Computation: The daily online index is an average of individual price changes across multiple categories and retailers. The index uses a basket of goods that changes over time as products appear and disappear from a retailer’s webpage. It is updated on a daily basis and leveraged to estimate annual and monthly inflation. This index is not designed to forecast official inflation announcements, but to provide real-time information on major inflation trends.
Monthly Inflation: The monthly inflation rate is the percentage change between the average of the daily online price index of the last 30 days and the average of the previous month. For example, on the last day of September 2010, we compared the average of the daily index between September 1st and September 30th to the average of the daily index between August 1st and August 31st. On the last day of each month, the value of our monthly inflation is equivalent to the monthly statistic reported by official offices.
Annual Inflation: The annual inflation rate is the percentage change between the average of the daily online price index of the last 30 days and the average for the same period a year ago. For example, on the last day of September 2010, we compare the average of the daily index between September 1st and September 30th 2010 to the average of the daily index between September 1st and September 30th 2009. On the last day of each month, the value of our annual inflation is equivalent to the annual (year-to-year) statistic reported by official offices.
ResearchWe started studying price stickiness, food inflation, and pass-through across Latin American countries. Over time, we expanded the research questions to several areas in Macroenomics:
http://bpp.mit.edu/
This has been reported twice already.
MIT "Billion Price Project" Confirms US Prices Surging (In Case There Was Any Confusion)
US 2011 Inflation: 10.6%?
Junked you for fun
Anyway even if this simple minded bill gets passed how long will be before even the dumbest fuck realizes that he can cut his gold coin up?
Pieces of 8
ARRRRGHHH!
$1,400 / 8 > $100....
?????????
Dude,
C'mon, keep making statements like that and you will end up in congress.
"Pieces of Eight" is how they made change. Didn't you ever watch any pirate movies?
Pieces of Sixteen or Pieces of thirty two really doesn't have the same ring to it.
Shave and a haircut, 2 bits.
Damn expensive haircut now, ain't it?
Not really, 2 bits is a quarter dollar.
I think he meant 2 bits of those 8 bits ... damned expensive haircut now, don't ya think?
Oop's .........
With the FAO food price index at its highest level ever and prices of many commodities reaching new records, rising inflation has become a key concern around the world. The problem is especially pernicious in emerging markets, where food consumption accounts for a larger share of families’ expenditures and where a surge of capital inflows has added to inflationary pressures.
This week’s beyondbrics chart (after the break) shows the inflation trend for India, Brazil, Indonesia and China since the start of last year together with their policy interest rates (in circles) at the start of 2010 and today. All four countries have tightened monetary policy in response to rising prices but the way they have reacted shows the differences in their priorities and their willingness to act.
http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2011/02/14/chart-of-the-week-fighting-i...
Doesn't matter. Since everyone is jumping up and down now, it is literally already too late. As sure as people and government attempt to change their fate at the 11th hour, they might as well attempt to steer a train from collison. Momentum plus speed is a bitch. Anyone with common sense was off the ride three years ago and well away from the crash site.
What has happened is the ivory towers that assumed chaos didnt' enter into the equation have been half assing their attempt to throw on the breaks a year ago. Now the JPM's and other fun time clubs of the planet earth are going to be soaking in one another's own blood. I can head the arguements now of small minded morons and top level fools demanding action from one another.
So let's all sit on a deck chair, have a beer and watch them all tear each other apart and they find out money one day doesn't bring food to their plate and their armies run on food and not on a pay check.
Grab a chair, there's cold beer in the fridge. Let's watch the "upper" class kill each other in the coming months shall we?
Break the Brakes ... Bitch!
Shovel more coal under that boiler!
I'm tired of waitin!
Spalding, trying to reinvent yourself from a ridiculuous gold basher to a serious commentator like JW in FL?
Won't work , just change the screen name and start bashing gold by saying it will never go over 1450 NEVER, then when it does, change name again, repeat again again again
Dude, (s)he posted at 21:18; you replied at 21;18. How many of you have you spawned down there who are monitoring this forum? I realize an email is generated when a post is submitted, but that is fast. DAMMMMNNNNNN!!!!
So let me guess, buy gold and silver for inflation? Genius....
They had slipped into Obamacare too. Scared shitless of gold -- funny since almost no one owns any.
Exactly.
People will trade their gold for "stuff", trade silver for "stuff". However in a world one more famine away from complete government overhaul, I'm pretty sure people will trade in their governments for something to eat.
what about online deals??? you can wire money and not give up that much info.. just address and some things but nothing like that in person insanity
Drive to Canada. Go to any Jewelry store. Buy gold or silver.
Profit.
Better yet, Canadian coin stores. Maples, Eagles, Krugs, wafers, bars, Tozs or grams. Cash purchases encouraged. Many still have 100oz silver bars. Watch out for sales tax on non-Royal Canadian Mint castings though.
This will be as easy to do as tracking sales taxes across state boundrys. HAHA
We all want to rant. Let's take a break, and watch the Sunday fixing. I'm west coast USA. I'll shoot the interbank opening to ZH. There will be be gaps on the opening. Light volume and the usd holiday. Trade smart on light liquidity. Best wishes.
Not a bad idea.
Maybe some Washington residents could inquire with their representatives to elaborate and post back?
I'd volunteer, but if I talk to mine again, I'll probably end up in jail.
+++
ROTFLMAO
You think they would be able to reply with a coherent answer?
Nah, they will be busy chasing the underage male interns around.
Washington STATE.
All of our underage male interns have accompanied their congresscreatures to D.C., the other white meat.
+ 10 inches
Q: Why don't congressmen use bookmarks?
A: They like their pages bent over.
RFID tags are made with silver.....
http://www.silver-info.com/rfid-technology.htm
So are fillings
MIT is an institution. US inflation is far higher than stated. Just add +65% cost to Bumblebee Pink Salmon can 2 wks ago. 65%!
- god i know, i love salmon patties and chips.
Are we talking about the cans which were recently downsized from 6.5 oz. to 5.0 oz.?
Yeah, I thought so.
"While we are confident that representatives Asay, Hurst, Klippert, Pearson, and Miloscia have no clue why they are even proposing this bill, we would also be delighted to find out which moneyed interests they represent,"
Indeed, and what their real motives are.
My guess, because of their location, is that it's some kind of attempt to clamp down on the Second Hand stores. Since the biggest (I believe) swap meet in the state happens at the old drive in the home district of 2 of 5, and since apparently this bill wouldn't have any teeth for swap meets, it's gotta be a crackdown on the second hand dealers.
I wasn't aware that the swap meet 'family' was well connected enough to rent their own legislators. But then, this is cheap-ass Washington State lowlife politicians we're dissin' here. Maybe all you need to do is buy them a really nice lunch and you too can be an effective lobbyist.
Maybe if I take a bunch of them to a patriotic place like 'America's Diner,' we can get it voted down.
While you are there ask them if they can produce a receipt for the rings they are wearing.
If not call the cops as they probably stole them.
OK that's enough from me for one night.
Going to go bowling, knock back a few six packs, pick a fight with a small guy or a child and then go home and beat the wife.
Crush the little guy in the name of "preventing crime", as usual.
You don't get the real motive until the last reel of the movie...
http://houserepublicans.wa.gov/news/public-safety/asays-bill-aims-to-cur...
Hm...Thanks BS for the link. I ought to have replaced the word "real" with ulterior motives because both you and I know the last reel may indeed end in a sequel, and I believe we both know how that may turn out.
I pray that the people of Washington have enough sense to see through this legislative power/control bullshit. Good Lord!
This is so cute. They think people are not going to OPENLY refuse taxes. That people are going to try to hide and run.
http://cheezburger.com/TemplateView.aspx?tiid=343274
What? You can't even get a happy ending at the massage parlor for 100 fiats. Well. Most people here have probably spent most of their money on gold/silver already so they are safe. This rule is for the stupid new comers who will have to panic to get rid of there FRN's. These little inconveniences tend to happen on the way to the 3rd world. Not that huge of a deal. Did you think they were just going to stand by while everyone rushes to get out of the dollar into gold and silver? I'm not going to let this effect my good times I'm going to have on the future black market and in the massage parlor with my perfectly legal holdings. I'm a model citizen.
+2 at least
Many of you would be better judges of the validity here, I don't know the players:
http://crisisboom.com/2011/02/16/government-gold-silver-confiscation/
Thank god for Craigslist!
That bill ahs everything to do with criminal activity and little to do with individual rights.
Keep shorting, ZH.
No, that bill has everything to do with making criminals out of everyday people. It's a hack job because people get scammed and the gov't thinks its supposed take over the funciton of the pre-frontal cortex of so many people. So they ram some stupid shit like this down upon the innocent, which greatly out-weigh the corrupt, and make everyone a criminal. Then all of a sudden they say "Look at all you criminals... see? our laws are working to prevent this crime!". Create the problem and the solution in one fell swoop. It's evil.. nothing less.
Innocent until proven guilty? not any more...
You misspelled 'incoherent'
easy folks.. this is not like it sounds. They won't be able to enforce it on bullion sales, nor is that the intent. This is aimed at the guys that open up shop in hotel lobbies on the weekends that buy junk jewelery. They want to try to stop thieves that steal peoples jewelery and then hock them to the jewelery buyers that immediatley melt them down. This has nothing to do with bullion. Until they they try to make the connection to bullion, its a good thing. It means if somebody breaks into your home and steals your wedding ring and the guy tries to dump in a jewelry buyer there is a record. The buyer has to also sit on the jewelery for a period of time.
This is also 2 week old news. I live in washington and already screamed about it.
Pawn shops are already required to sit on jewelery etc for 2 weeks so the local filth can come by and inspect it.
Yeah, since I'm not a criminal, I certainly have no problem with being TREATED LIKE ONE.
Heck, it's kind of like Halloween, where you can pretend to be something you're not and get free candy.
Why wouldn't EVERYBODY want to be fingerprinted when they sell Grandma's silver change jar at the second hand store? It's fun! And besides, a law this fine totally stops criminals from fencing their stolen merchandise at honest second hand stores.
As we know, most criminals PREFER to fence their merchandise at honest dealers, rather than using the illegal guys with no fingerprint equipment. After all, a fence might take advantage of a poor, hard-working thief.
Nice post Dr. Sandi.
Yeah, since I'm not a criminal, I certainly have no problem with being TREATED LIKE ONE.
re. fishponds. look for fish that are vegetarians. Catfish wind up concentrating the toxins.
This is what we have.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile_tilapia
Good luck.
Good tip, thanks! Do tilapia eat the algae too? I was thinking some catfish to clean the algae - if not. There are some toxic algae but what toxins were you thinking about?
Dr Sandi is an online personality.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/18/revealed-air-force-ordered-softwar...
anon says hello.
Thank god. Now that I can simply be deleted, they'll probably stop looking for me.
You are correct Shed Boy. The information is taken from individuals who SELL, not those who BUY. PEOPLE: READ THE BILL, PARTICULARLY THE DEFINITION OF "TRANSACTIONS". Similar laws exist in most other states, including here in CT. You are all getting your panties in a bunch over nothing.
Duplicate
Are you illiterate? If you read this bill, apparently you blew right past Section 3, let alone the definitions of what it includes. Congratulations for already screaming about it... why again did you do that if it's "not like it sounds?"
The bill refers to transactions - clearly defined as a purchase by a dealer from a member of the public. Sales by a dealer to the public and purchases by the public from a dealer are clearly not covered by this bill. Again, the law is the same in CT, minus the stupid fingerprint, so it is not really anything new.
Please re-read 3(1)(d), and tell me what you think documenting the information of the person with whom the transaction is made means. Seller = documenter. Buyer = documentee, in a liberal reading ("as context requires"). Above that, in section 2 (8), yes, I will grant you that it focuses on people doing the selling (although I'm a bit surprised that, as Dr. Sandi said, you see no problem with giving up your life history to sell $101 worth of gold). However - a hole I suspect an eager prosecutor could drive a truck through - define "trade." I'm not a lawyer. Perhaps you are expert in the topic. But how this reads now - If you don't see this as at least the beginning of a BFD, if not a BFD itself, I am at a loss.
I would certainly agree that this is a step in the wrong direction and another erosion of individual liberty. It's just that Tyler's interpretation that it was aimed at buyers was incorrect. But sure, it could be twisted around and amended to the point that buyers eventually get caught in the net. Hopefully, the scrutiny given by sites like ZH will help keep that from happening.
@BrianOFlanagan
Don't bother wasting time arguing with these people, they are obviously highly schooled lawyers...or paranoid kooks, take your pick.
I live here in Washington and already inquired to what this means (aka "screamed"). Yes, I suppose it could be twisted into any interpretation you want. Yes, it could perhaps at some point in time be modified to include bullion. I'll try to explain it so the dim light bulbs will understand:
A man breaks into your house. Steals your jewelery. Next day goes to the local weekend junk jewelry dealer at you local Holiday Inn that buys gold and silver jewelery, like a roving pawn shop. The BUYER takes your jewelry home and melts it down. Your jewelery is gone forever. Grannies 200 year old broach that was handed down for 3 generations is toast. The thief got his cash and nobody was the wiser.
Everybody following along? Do I have to speak slower?
The intent of this bill is to allow a way to trace WHO SOLD GRANNIES BROACH SO MAYBE YOU WILL GET IT BACK. Got it?
The BUYER in this case is the crook at the Holiday Inn that rips people off that are desperate to sell their junk jewelry. HE HAS TO BE LICENSED TO DO THAT, LIKE A PAWN SHOP. YOU are not the buyer.
Yes it is good to watch for bills like this, but in this case it is good for us because it could trace stolen goods.
But please, by all means interpret how ever you want. But that is the way it was explained to me by the local junk jewelery dealer who WAS NOT happy about it because he has to sit on the stuff for 45 days before he can melt it down and get HIS money.
*edit* Precious metals, in this case DOES NOT MEAN: GOLD BULLION,GOLD BARS, GOLD INGOTS, KRUGERRANDS, ETC. The "cash for Gold" dealers DO NOT buy these. They buy gold chains, gold rings, gold jewelry. Tney recycle the stuff...got it?
1) if you hold "these people" in such contempt, why are you here? 2) do you not understand how this bill can be twisted into any sort of legal abortion? Are you a "highly schooled lawyer?" 3) where exactly do you figure that precious metals do not equal bullion? Where are precious metals defined only as meaning jewelry? 4) Are you saying you are fine with being photographed and fingerprinted every time you try to sell an item worth over $100, which pretty soon may be just enough for a day's groceries? 5) Can you define "trade" for me? 6) Do you always rely on the local pawnbroker for legal advice?
Whatever. 1.)I hold no one in contempt unless they act before they think, read or enquirer to someone that knows. 2.)I asked a "Cash for Gold " dealer to explain it to me. HE is the BUYER that is stated in the bill...not me...not you. 2.)If you want to twist it, knock yourself out. 3.) Yes, the term "precious metal" could be interpreted to include bullion. But these "Cash for Gold buyers DO NOT buy bullion. As far as I know, neither do pawn shops. If you don't want to be fingerprinted, don't sell to a pawn shop. 4.) I don't sell my jewelry to a rip off artist that will give me half what its worth sitting in a hotel lobby at a folding table. 5.)" Trade is the transfer of ownership of goods and services from one person to another." 6.) I went directly to the person that this bill is focused on, the BUYER.
Do you live here? Have you asked anybody? Have you even seen a "Cash for Gold" dealer in your town?
Rage on folks and one junk for my new buddy oygevalt.
*edit* Please read: "coins that are legal tender, bullion in the form of fabricated hallmarked bars,"
A local news report. http://www.king5.com/news/local/Bill-would-regulate-Cash-for-gold-buyers...
Thank you! You finally admitted that bullion *can* fall under the definition - more than can, it DOES, since it's not excluded. Maybe next you can admit that nowhere in the bill does it say "cash for gold dealer," is the limit to its reach, and after that, gosh, maybe it wouldn't be too huge a leap to admit the bill could be finessed by someone with an agenda from there.
granny doesn't have to sell her jewelry if she's not sure he's a reputable dealer. We american's have come to believe that the government needs to hold our hands at every step from the vultures. This is not to say there should not be criminal laws for people passing off something that it is not. Every bill that has an "intent" is not well written such that it can, and based on my 50 years of experience studying government actions, and IS interpreted that decreases liberty. What you don't get, in part because of your condescending attitude, is that the biggest problem our country faces today is an erosion of liberty. Too many people have this attitude of entitlement and that daddy government has got their back, instead of taking responsibility for their own actions. Most people are not victims, but volunteers, and in the ways they truly ARE victims, the government's role is to ensure that the predators are brought to trial.
"The intent of this bill is to allow a way to trace WHO SOLD GRANNIES BROACH SO MAYBE YOU WILL GET IT BACK. Got it?"
Hey Asswipe,
The government is full of good intentions but their actions have proved otherwise.
These bitchez can take their stink-en proposed legislation and stick it up their ass. No way no how is this bill is to protect the public. One would have to be a complete idiot to believe that.
"Don't bother wasting time arguing with these people, they are obviously highly schooled lawyers...or paranoid kooks, take your pick."
Hm...Are you not a contradiction?
Ben Franklin said it best..."They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
You don't live with the "intentions" of legislation, you live with its consequences. In particular, the loss of liberty. And that's a given.
+1000
Don't like it, but it probably will spread. But I'm holding onto my gold for after the system sinks beneath the waves. If there is a police state, then with my big mouth I'm off to the work camps in Alaska anyway. I'll probably be mining it for Uncle Thug so won't have a use for my stash. But assuming we get a breakdown, that is when gold/silver come out and play.
If you get sent to a work camp tell me where your gold is and I will watch it for you.
Hell with that. I plan on comming back as a zombie to go recover my stash and spend it on zombie strippers!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PZYYioAJJE&feature=player_embedded
"Don't like it, but it probably will spread."
Not if it can be nipped it in the bud. That's where the people of Washington come in...
Unfortunately government today means we have to fight even harder to maintain the freedoms we have. Waring for our freedom in this day and age especially with an arrogant entitle filled psyche as many of our undeserving civil servants under our employ have.
One only look at those characters in Wisconsin. Good lord! What greedy bastards they have become. Unbelievable!
How come the bankers get to do what they want with gold & we don't know their names ! NO FAIR ! ......... this is a free country, right ? i thought the constitution says that we citizens get to hold gold & silver coins !! .........
THE BANKERS ARE THE CRIMINALS & GET AWAY WITH IT / WE ARE NOT THE CRIMINALS & ARE TREATED AS CRIMINALS !!
Yes, and you want me to do what about it?
Vote Dem
Vote Repub
Vote
No thanks.
Good point lynnybee.
How come the bankers get to do what they want with gold & we don't know their names !
I guess folks are getting their gold ripped off at home, and/or selling it to cheats locally.
I like that this is to protect "property values" and promote the type of "growth we want." You can't actually figure out why this thing is being proposed by reading the reasons for it.
As a Seattle resident, I am not surprised at the nanny-state angle of this bill. While I've been more of a silver than gold bug, I was considering getting some of the lustrous yellow relic to give some color to my coin collection. I've built up a repoire with a local coin shop, and would be sad to be driven online just to be able to buy a 1/10 oz coin without being treated like a threat to national security.
What's their justification for this? (assume I did not read those 7 pages).
pretty soon i am not going to be able to wear my gold chains and crosses
I pity the fool...
Tonight repost donkey girl.
Another Friday treat.
Chick who lives in a cabin in the NC Mountains. Got a donkey and chickens, and looking to go solar. As America collapses, we can learn a lot about her trials and tribulations. It has not been easy for her. Once in a while she dances.
http://oko-organic-clothing.blogspot.com/
thanks! very real, that.
That's a pretty amazing blog she's made. Thanks a lot for that link. Just spent an hour going through it, and barely scratched the surface.
Put -you be the King of Off Topic. Worth the gander though. I'm in the middle of my re-location right now.
Liked this one on the site -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNXg75-EJMw&feature=player_embedded#t=204s
This makes perfect sense. How else is Uncle Sammy gonna keep track of it's Gold Plated Tungsten?
Worried? Buy your gold and silver at the Perth Mint or the like.
I doubt it's constitutional.
I also doubt that people would actually obey it.
What, exactly, does the Federal government do on a daily basis that IS Constitutional?
Your second comment is where we can rest a little hope...
Geoff from the UK...there's a movement underway here to restore the Constitution.
It will not fail.
the price or survival. Best gun and Knife
http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=020C&mi...
http://www.amazon.com/Helle-Knives-Millstone-Fixed-Handles/dp/B000NNRJMG...
get ready folks
Far more important than guns or knives:
http://www.icomamerica.com/en/
Why limit the recordation to just gold?
No, it covers "precious metals", which includes, gold, silver and platinum.
It is not only covering gold.
However, it doesn't cover palladium.
This is so screwy I can't even get my head around it. It's like some legislators wife's nephew got ripped off and the group of pot smoking college masterdebaters working as legislative assistants bong-stormed up a solution so the specific incident can never happen again.
LOL... Although that's very funny, I can't help but wonder this has more sinister intentions.
"But the kicker: if a transaction is mode for an amount over $100," really ?! Actually the document states "if the amount paid is greater than one hundred dollars" which has a slightly different meaning and in some way can 'explain' at least some of the reasons why they came up with this. With that being said this is still a pos bill proposal and you are responsible too for voting those idiots into the office.
As far as the Dutch central bank request, I believe that it's not totally out of whack to ask a pension fund (which should not have the same investment strategy as a speculative hedge fund) to reduce its exposure to one of the most ridiculously over-hyped investment vehicles, when the cost of extracting gold from the mine is estimated at $400 per ounce, it is not in short supply and its industrial applications are neither important nor of any particular benefit to mankind.
I'm not happy to say it, but your contributions, as an alternative to mainstream money-driven media, are starting to lose that sparkle and tend to become more and more biased.
It's not in short supply? You say that like there haven't been dozens of articles at ZH about the criminal naked shorts on the commodities exchanges...
Now, please, can you tell me what it costs to print a 100$ USD Federal Reserve Note note (the production cost of the material and labor) and then tell me with a straight truthful face that the ratio between production costs and exchange value is better for the FRN? Which one is the biggest scam here, really?
Actually I digged it out for you. Here is the link:
http://ideas.repec.org/a/fip/fedcer/y2001iqivp2-26.html
"Estimates of scale and cost efficiency for Federal Reserve currency operations"
How can you claim that a ratio of 0.005/100 = 0.00005 is less of a scam than 1/3 = 0.33? There is a factor 6600 difference. Intuitively I know which ratio has more "thin air" in it.
As far as the Dutch bank request is concerned, I suppose you are OK with pension funds holding 80% or more in sovereign currencies and sovereign debt instruments of bankrupt countries.
@Zero Debt
You missed my point. One functions as legal tender, the most common medium of exchange etc (so the intrinsic value is irrelevant to our discussion) and the other one is bought as an "inflation hedge investment". The problem with this is that if you think there will be (hyper)inflation gold will not effectively protect your 'real' wealth.
The only person who believes (or pretends to believe) that the average production cost of gold is still in the $400 range is Jon Nadler, who has utterly zero credibility with any honest or knowledgeable observer of the gold scene. As for the rest of your screed, learn a little history, you ignorant hack, before trying to comment on a subject which you clearly know very little about, or in furthering your disingenuous anti-gold agenda, whichever the case may be.
what did i do now? N2dark is just biggerdickus with a new name.
Actually i lowered the low end of my range to 195. Hey Jamie pays my salary man
@akak
Why should anybody who doesn't agree with you groupies has to be an ignorant or worse have an agenda ? 11 idiots junked my comment but not one those bipedal mammals was able to come up with a coherent counter-argument.
your "aguments" are so old and have been refuted so many times that you're an embarassment to the troll establishment
keep barking jon
buy the gold sell the gold ,, like going through the airport ,,
so they have your picture .. your fingerprints. In the future most gold sales will probably be through private transactions. As the financial world grinds to a stop
and only 2 percent of Americans own gold .. when this happens gold will go through the roof,
then silver can be bought\\
every body now is photo graphed for a drivers license .. they know where your at ,,
in the mean time quietly accumulate,,
but alas most just talk,,
instead of buying when the buying is good.
the mass will buy when gold touches 2500 and silver 70,,
just drive to Idaho,, sell at the border in the panhandle ,, drive back.
a few hours . \\
but the political mind is a large suction cup, gathering up loose campaign cash
All this will accomplish is to drive the market underground. The black market pays no taxes and keeps no records
All this will accomplish is to drive the market underground. The black market pays no taxes and keeps no records
You forgot:
and is much more honest than the NYSE and CME
Confiscation is on it's way and it won't be pretty.
The country will cease to function before that happens.
The first step to confiscation is identification.
politician == predator
confiscation? they'll get plenty of lead, not much gold.
I assume this is an attempt to get metal dealers to keep better records of cash transactions. I purchase PM through wire transfers and resell the PM back to the dealer. All the info anyone would need is already in third party hands.
Many people purchase PM with credit cards.
The bill will die of stupidity; unenforceable in the past, present and future. You cannot track cash sales of anything if there is no sales invoice. You cannot track purchases of resale inventory made with cash unless there is an purchase invoice.
You do not need a law to track sales/purchases made by credit card, check, or wire transfer.
Comrades!
or should I say
Heil Hitler!
or should I say
Heil F.D.R.!
or should I say
Uncle!
?????????????
Pitiful, pitiful, pitiful...but predictable.
The wheels are coming off, can you feel it?
Better buy those precious metals and ammo now boys and girls.
Better think about "re-allotment" anything of value you may have in the Bernank and Company Digital Database of fantasy value (e.g. - bank account, IRA, mutual fund, stocks, bonds, etc.).
The only thing I have out of your list is an uncle and ammo.
Yes, about right, wish that Uncle owned farmland and livestock.
reduce its exposure to one of the most ridiculously over-hyped investment vehicles, when the cost of extracting gold from the mine is estimated at $400 per ounce, it is not in short supply and its industrial applications are neither important nor of any particular benefit to mankind.
n2dark
you my friend are as clueless about the monetary printing going on with out an anchor,
no nothing of austrian economics, do not realize the behind the scenes preparations for gold backed currencies to replace the failed systems in operation now.
china buying up gold silver to back their currencies with gold .. whilst you lose every day in your wallett as inflation devalues your buying power by 7%
gold and silver has kept pace ,
and a fiat dollar is dug out of bernakies hind pocket for a penny
Actually, I've made 190% since November 2009, just need to get it out at the right time.
when 1 oz of gold = the DJI average its time to sell
Hat tip...