Preparing For A "Chernobyl Solution" - Updated Fukushima Status Summary And Timeline

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Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:28 | 1070532 BigJim
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Natgas, bitchez!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:37 | 1070536 anvILL
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Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:29 | 1070537 BigJim
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That's going to be a lot of sand and concrete. The logistics of getting this done - without frying a great number of 'volunteers' - is going to be a bit tricky, IMHO.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:39 | 1070556 It is a bargin ...
It is a bargin my friend's picture

As a civil engineer I'd really love to see them try this.

I have a couple of concrete gangs scratching their arses at the moment if that helps.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:56 | 1070791 taraxias
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it can't be done

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:51 | 1070580 jus_lite_reading
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Just like in Chernobyl the first dozen or so crews were toasted from the inside out. Since these crews are Japanese anyone brave enough can be considered a true kamakazi. Fast death for the first two crews, medium death for the next set of crews and slow death for the last poor souls who wrap it up is certain. Everyone else within 30 miles dies of cancer 2 years down the road..... all IMO

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:39 | 1070726 Tense INDIAN
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who needs volunteers....CIA may help wwith their mind-controlled sex slaves

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:32 | 1070542 Byte Me
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Someone else suggested it but maybe it needs redoing:

Waterborne watercannon. Greater range, possibility to 'drone control' them for preference.

Might help keep particulate emissions slaked down a bit. Repowering FuckedUpShima seems like hopium based PR.

Surely the USN have firetenders they could magnanimously lease-lend to the Japanese.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:47 | 1070573 PhattyBuoy
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Piiisssing in the wind !

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:33 | 1070543 So Close
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The 2011 Toyota and Nissan models may be "Hotter" than any previous year.  That should further help with this overall "positive" GDP event.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:32 | 1070544 Weimar Ben Bernanke
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Well the sooner they entomb that thing the better. Use all the concrete they can get their hands on, seal that shit before more people die and more areas becom inhabitiable. I really hope it works.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:56 | 1070599 johnQpublic
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if they cant figure out a good way to get water on the damn things, just how exactly do they intend to cover them in sand and then encase them in concrete?


if the rods heat up, isnt there a possibility of explosion?

if the concrete cures(generating alot of heat as concrete does when it cures)how would exploding fuel rods affect this?


this baffles me on a number of levels...

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:20 | 1071171 Missing_Link
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if they cant figure out a good way to get water on the damn things, just how exactly do they intend to cover them in sand and then encase them in concrete?

Water has to pretty much hit the target.

With concrete, you can drop it from higher up, and each drop doesn't have to hit the target exactly -- you just fly tons of planes and choppers over it til you have a huge mound of concrete.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:37 | 1070549 Wakanda
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Best timeline I've seen yet.  Congrats ZH and thanks for the information.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:38 | 1070553 Gmpx
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Dreaming. There will be no "simple" Chernobyl solution.

1. There are 6 melting reactors.

2. The reactor cores are not accessible.

3. There is more fuel in each reactor.

4. There is old fuel stored on top of each reactor.

5. There is one reactor loaded with Plutonium.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:40 | 1070562 Lord Welligton
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Unfortunately yes.


6. The plant is built on a beach.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:54 | 1070593 Gmpx
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All nuclear plants are built near the water. They use the water. It it was a floating power plant, the solution would be very simple - take it to the nearest ocean trench and sink.

There is no way they can build a sarcophagus without opening up cores and killing the reaction. But first (if we do not consider nuclear explosion the possibility - which I think is real) they need to evacuate and dispose the old fuel.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:52 | 1070585 jus_lite_reading
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Number 5-- Make that MOX. The worst kind of unstable isotopes

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:40 | 1070557 Reptil
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At this point in time, I'm wondering if the reaction of TEPCO is fast enough to contain the disaster. They may be in a "group think" that excludes the possibillity of a "worst case". At Chernobyl the response was fast and resolute. I don't see that here. Encasing the #4 Chernobyl reactor in concrete was later regarded a mistake. I couldn't find out why. There might be some information we're missing here.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:14 | 1070642 Judge Judy Scheinlok
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I wonder if the TEPCO execs and engineers flag each other as junk to help form cohesive internal opinions?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:01 | 1070816 Reptil
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Perhaps they have a "like" button?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:39 | 1070559 Doubleguns
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I guess it's time to call the Russians for some help then.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:42 | 1070563 Byte Me
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I know much has been made about the desperation that they seem to be stuck with - but the latest DG image from 17/3/11 looks promising:

Less 'smoke/vapour' or not

You the audience -- decide..

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 12:21 | 1071812 DonutBoy
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Less vapor because the water is gone.  In reactor 4 the live fuel rods were out of the reactor with the "spent" fuel rods in the pool.  Now they're melting, and if they don't come up with a fix quick-like the melted fuel will gather up at the bottom of the pool and go critical.  That would be a new reactor with no containment whatsoever.  However hard it is to get the concrete in there - they need to do it now.  Once the fission starts again, you'll have the helicopter pilots dropping dead before they can get the concrete within a 1/4 mile.

They are completely off the reservation.   This entire area is no-go for the next 100 years.  They've already had plutonium release.  The uranium-fueled reactors generate plutonium.  There is plutonium in each and every spent fuel "pond".  What if they had an 8.0 aftershock today? 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:43 | 1070565 PhattyBuoy
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Cement mixing ceremony - 60 days out?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:49 | 1070571 Judge Judy Scheinlok
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"Geopolitics of Energy in 2015"

National Intelligence Council

At the 2002 session the discussions revolved around a set of four scenarios. One entitled "Green as green can be" began with a description of an "environmental disaster" that "galvanizes public opinion" and causes the US, Europe, and Japan to pursue "aggressive environmental policies" including heavy gasoline tax, stricter pollution regs. The policy cut oil demand so significantly that by 2020 the world is using 13 mil bbl a day less.

What book did this passage come from?

I hate to haarp on the facts.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:49 | 1070575 So Close
So Close's picture

Perhaps the Great Bernanke might consider dropping large bundles of Benjamins from helicopters.  They will soon be worth less than sand or concrete by weight and volume.  :-)

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:51 | 1070581 Miss Expectations
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I clearly remember April 1986. 

4/15/86 we bombed Tripoli, Libya

4/26/86 Chernobyl melt down

The Libya/Nuclear pairing...better luck this time?



Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:54 | 1070590 jus_lite_reading
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Either better luck this time, or armageddon. Pick one. Me? I hope for better luck so we can watch the banksters burn in slow death.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 07:54 | 1070592 Stormdancer
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we're talking what...a half a cubic kilometer of cement here???

Somebody better find some big limestone quarries and get some extra rock crushing capacity going asap...not to mention the kilns needed.

Lafarge and Cemex execs should be rubbing their hands with glee...

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:04 | 1070617 Cdad
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Dispersion monkeys at work everywhere, as last night the chatter was that power would be hooked up today to reactor #2 right about now.  Never mind that it is highly unlikely that anything electrical will work in any of these reactors after repeated explosions and fires.  Now, of course, maybe Saturday on the miracle extension cord.

 There is desperation in the air now.  It isn't just that of nuclear engineers, but rather criminal syndicate banker types trying to hobble this totally fucked up market into the weekend on an optimistic note. a time when it would be almost impossible to have more catastrophic shit up in the air than currently is the case.

 Anyone caught with money in this  market [and I don't care which market we are talking about]  deserves his fate.  Hint:  when there are flying/talking monkeys everywhere at every hour of the day, across the entire globe, talking bullish smack in the middle of complete disaster...ummm....sell.

 The minis have already printed the HOD, if you ask me.  The bid this morning is simply criminal syndicate banker created volatility, scraping a few more dollars out of this smoldering wreck of a market before they head out the door.

 Again, the nation will never be able to achieve financial recovery with these same criminal bankers at the helm of what is clearly a sinking ship of state.  So just bring on the US Treasury defaults, and let's start the purging process.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:13 | 1070632 Judge Judy Scheinlok
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Short it all!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:16 | 1070651 Byte Me
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I fully support you in wanting to bring on the default stage.


The 'rules' have since been changed by TPTB so that honest business practice (sic) is now a trippy fairytale from your childhhood and mine.

At this stage the only solution would be to exterminate the bankster class/race/sub-genus of humankind. Extreme?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:16 | 1070653 SWRichmond
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The Yomiuri Shimbun newspaper, quoting a senior official of the ruling Democratic Party of Japan, said the US made the offer immediately after the disaster damaged Fukushima No 1 nuclear plant. According to the unnamed senior official, US support was based on dismantling the troubled reactors run by Tokyo Electric Power (TEPCO) some 250 km (155 miles) northeast of Tokyo. However, the government and TEPCO thought the cooling system could be restored by themselves, the report said.

Am I reading this right?

Our government demanded that the Japanese dismantle - that is, permanently remove - over five gigawatts of power in order to help them with a critical safety problem that had the potential to destroy 100 square miles of land and kill or injure thousands of people?

That as compensation for helping them we demanded that they cripple their electrical generating capacity on a permanent basis?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:31 | 1070687 Stormdancer
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Certainly seems an odd caveat to the help equation if true...but probably moot.  Reactors 1-4 appear to already be permanently crippled.  Might get 5 and 6 patched up and fired up again in a few months if they can keep them under control long enough and reactors 1-4 don't do anything really nasty along the way.  Might be hard to get operators for 5-6 if it means working in radiation suits with respirators 24/7.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:58 | 1070805 SWRichmond
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Nothing odd about it at all.  Economies run on energy.  If yo want to shut down the economy, shut off the power.  The global war on energy production is visible, to those who are willing to stand back and see it.

And ZH helps the war, and thus is complicit.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 12:38 | 1071892 RichardP
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This link was provided in a different thread yesterday.  The writing at the link is misrepresenting reality/facts in order to stir the pot.  The State Department has stated that the story at this link is without merit.  The help offered was technical help.  Knowledge, not equipment.  Knowledge about how to dismantle the fatally-crippled reactors.  Japan responded that they thought the reactors could be saved, so thanks, but no thanks.  Burried in the link you provided is a statement that a majority of Japanese sources (whoever they are) are irritated that the Japanese government did not accept the U.S. offer.

Does anyone think it is a good idea to restart these severely damaged reactors and continue to use them to generate power?  If the Japanese government says it is OK for this to happen, is it a bad thing for the world to demand that they be dismantled?  Given the radiation contamination, would they be rebuilt at this location?  Or would this location be permanently crippled?

Think, people.


Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:24 | 1070658 Eddie Stobart
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That's the only possible conclusion. Some ignorant scientist might point out that the longer the situation continues the more stable it becomes but what do they know? And those geiger counters - government patsies.



Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:23 | 1070663 Fix It Again Timmy
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Sadly, this tragic episode probably could have been prevented if TECO had given civil, electrical, and mechanical engineering summer interns a project to come up with a practical solution to the very events that have occurred.  I'm absolutely positive that they could have come up with an elegant solution. It seems that the hubris of nuclear plant operators needs to be tempered by the fact that they are dealing with the forces of nature which have created the universe and you better damn well have in hand a plan that will enable you to keep them under control under any circumstances short of being hit by an asteroid. There simply is no excuse for their criminal lack of preparation!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:27 | 1070678 Eddie Stobart
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What they need is a giant urinating robot. Mechagodpissa.



Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:22 | 1070900 Sweet Chicken
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I admit I lol'd

It might have had more impact if you had used two zz's instead of the s's.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 19:17 | 1073823 Eddie Stobart
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You associate urinating with pizza?

Where I live we're much more conservative with our choice of toppings.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:56 | 1070890 prophet
prophet's picture

...  and so, much like the people whose behaviour you decry, you sacrifice integrity in your race to the top.

you wanna be a chat room, fine.

you wanna be a prototype for 21st century journalism you're gonna have to up your game.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 11:56 | 1071694 Let them all fail
Let them all fail's picture

Glad we have found better methods in the last 25 years...

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 00:43 | 1074466 thefedisscam
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Ex-USSR used 100,000 red army soldiers (up to 10,000 of them DIED) to finally seal Chelnobyl. The reason for that many soldiers involved was that the radiation was SO strong that they had to change a person every single minute!

Does Japanese can afford to do this? Where are they going to find so MANY people who are willing to risk their lives? when Tokyo electric Power Co. openly recruited for volunteers, they could only get 24 volunteers, and ALL of them were 50 years of age and over. So even if they want to do a Chelnobyl here, they could not afford.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!