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Presenting SLV's Largest Holders

Tyler Durden's picture




 

It is not a good day for MS, BofA and Aletheia Research, the top 3 holders of SLV respectively. While the next 13F update of SLV holdings will hit in two weeks, below we present the funds with the largest SLV holdings as of December 31. Granted, considering that silver has had a nearly 70% YTD gain since then we will probably not shed too many tears. Curiously, Texas Teachers, not to be confused with University of Texas established its entire 2.8 million share stake in Q4 of last year. We wonder if Kyle Bass is to be thanked for that as well. And more curiously: JPMorgan, with 3.6 million shares is the 5th largest SLV holders.

 

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Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:42 | 1235490 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

So JPM is the largest shorter in the market and yet they own a large chunk of the silver fund... which is also underbacked by silver...

 

 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:50 | 1235520 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

None of this is relevant!  

1.  Quarterly disclosure is way too slow.  The volume can be traded in less than 30 min.

2.  JPM can be hedging, or actually create/redeem these ETFs, none of it matters.

For the first time, ZH is trying to dispel this whole JPM is shorting silver and only silver bent.  I applaud ZH for trying to do the right thing.  

Silver, like other "products", (CL, ES, ZN...) are there to be traded... 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:56 | 1235550 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

ZH didn't say that--said "shorting silver via copper."  copper was up today which of course makes no sense if you believe the reason for the sudden downturn in pretty much all commodites today is because the economic numbers have come out and we're heading towards a double dip recession.  In other words "ZH rumor is true" and "would have done well to copy them" but not fight them.  Still "why are finanicials up?"  Jobs report friday gonna be REAL important.  And of course "all that other stuff" like "Greece, Ireland and Portugal."  They're like "countries and shit."

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 20:56 | 1236526 Sylvia Plath
Sylvia Plath's picture

I wonder if the Texas Teachers plan #8 on the list is the same fund that took the big Gold position few weeks back...

 

Nothing like sticking it to the Teachers... 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:59 | 1235568 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

Jamie sign your paycheck?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:49 | 1235525 CitizenPete
CitizenPete's picture

I am lost on this one...  with silver paper shares only backed 100 to 1 with physical what are they actually holding and why the massive positionsin shorts to hedge?  Somebody please explain.

 

Lucy?  

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:28 | 1235805 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

They are holding basically worthless paper (SLV), but generating big fees/commissions for which they charge to manage the ETF. Trading it through their HFT/algo's also provides huge revenues for them. They are massively short gold and silver to make the USD look and perform better on behalf of the FED, USG and UST, which worked for many years by leasing and swapping metal directly into the market. This gave way to the "strong dollar" mantra and low inflation through hedonic adjustments. Greenspan, Rubin and Summers were all central in this while at the same time introducing the derivative complex (by repealing the Glass-Steagall Act). This helped to depress and discourage people from buying physical metal themselves and/or investing in the miners. GLD and SLV have been huge drags on the XAU and HUI, and worse, terrible proxies for the metals themselves. They are not backed by physical metal, IMHO. I base this primarily on their prospectus, which resembles Swiss Cheese.

They orchestrate these takedowns by pulling all their bids to start waterfall corrections and shake out weak hands. Then they cover short postions and roll long. This process has been repeated countless times over the last 10-15 years (at least). It is illegal and it is criminal. The SEC and CFTC sit back and do nothing, although they have been given hard evidence on a platter (Andrew McGuire for one) that laid out when and where these takedowns would occur.

Short answer but does that help?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:50 | 1235528 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

JPM is a COMEX warehouse; JPM is also the 5th largest shareholder of SLV commodity shares.  

Isn't this a massive conflict of interest? 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:54 | 1235542 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Too long to explain, but google market-maker...

 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:04 | 1235576 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

google fascism...

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:37 | 1235674 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Google 'Clusterfuck'

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:46 | 1235701 jrpuffnstuff
jrpuffnstuff's picture

Ahhh how true!

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:41 | 1235875 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

by What does it al...
on Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:54
#1235542

 

Too long to explain, but google market-maker...

 

**************************************************************

 

It is like being in Love... either you are or your not... some here have never felt the way you do.. others have and suffered bitter break ups.. some choose to get back on, to fight developing a phobia of being thrown.

 

But understand me young man, you can believe that the grass is blue, the sky is purple and that water is dry... you can factor in the effect of light refraction, you can make a logical argument that who decides what wet v. dry feels like. But in the end the facts, not the ones presented that are designed to instill a desire in the sheep and not the ones that you would choose to believe.

 

The real facts, will dawn on you.. you will be heartbroken and you will question everything and try to put it all back together in a way that is not random or evil.. but in the end, with the more facts that are levied against your pure heart.. you will be made to suffer the ugliest of truths.

 

The system is beyond corrupt and nor is it designed for the benefit of man.

 

Once you have stewed in these facts long enough you will try to find a way to fight the wrongs or you will decide that your personal quality of life is more important that wrong or right.

 

I hope that you are strong enough to fight the good fight! there are enough weaklings that turn their backs on mankind as a whole.

 

***********************************************************

 

Now on to your market maker statement.

 

1.   JP Morgan is the only Bank on the Planet that has a .04 margin to work from while all others are pushing .4 on the books..

2.   As well JP Morgan has a 0.25% FED window to draw down from.

3.   As well JP Morgan has the U.S. Tax Payer as its backstop in case of any type of failure.

4.   The FED will allow a blacked out pass thru / charge off that the U.S. Tax Payer will eat at a 6% rate.

5.   JP Morgan does create market conditions that would allow for the lesser position held by JP Morgan to become profitable over the broader majority of Americans in the more Logical Position. For instance physical ownership of PM’s v. paper trade in the land of make believe. JP Morgan will use all of its Proprietary Trading Techniques, which is short for 0.25% FED Monies, on a Blacked out contract to short the market back to the optimum price target for the larger manufacturing sector not to bear the brunt of a “We the People” inspired run up. With the full blessing of all involved for the betterment of all markets, it really is a twofer.. 1. God’s Work is being done to keep the tight margin markets running and then the bonus of all bonuses.. the peasants who had the gall to try and stand up to their masters will be punished for their unruly behavior.

 

There is a catch, I would not want to hurt your feelings any more than I have already.. but I can assure you that this time will be different and the dips will be bought, by one and all and this small, little insignificant market that is silver.. that JP Morgan could outright buy with spare change found in Jamie’s office sofa.. will become the first shot across the bow. This silver movement will have more significance than anyone would give it credit for today.

 

Good Luck, I Wish You Many Profitable and Happy Trades!

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:54 | 1235544 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

no

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 19:40 | 1236310 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Well, they won't be standing for delivery of their own silver at least.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:58 | 1235549 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

Jpm owns a piece of everthing, including most of our collective asses.

These criminals use fractional reserve lending to loan to each other to buy the complete array of capital markets.

Well fuckos stock holdings are now becoming more than their worthless mortgage holdings. But, the worst were transferred to foney and fraudy for we can fully see it on the gubbermint balance sheet.

Good ole buffy, saw to that.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:20 | 1235623 Thomas
Thomas's picture

This is silly since their ownership is for their customers.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:45 | 1235492 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Did i miss the memo when Tyler/ZH became bearish on silver? Not long ago we were getting 'silver just went vertical type posts, jpm feeling the pain'.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:47 | 1235514 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

"considering that silver has had a nearly 70% YTD gain since then we will probably not shed too many tears"

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:50 | 1235526 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Tyler Durden, finally.. you are trying to be some what balanced.  Of course, you can continue to be bullish, but the one-side coverage hurts idiots that gets on this website!  

+1

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:01 | 1235553 spartan117
spartan117's picture

Maybe TD has been psy-ops all along!  In fact, their goal was to goad the public into buying silver, only to be the contra party on those trades.  Wow!  What a conspiracy, eh? 

Zerohedge = JPM???

And all this time, I thought you were Brad Pitt.

 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:37 | 1235880 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

right? those hawt abs he has.. totally had me sold!

i dont know who junked you? that shit was funny!

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:01 | 1235575 toothpicker
toothpicker's picture

Print moar silver! Troll-silver

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:25 | 1235639 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

This isn't a one sided coverage. This site is the collective brainwork of thousands.

Tyler starts the topics and the readers fill in the rest.

If ZH was one sided, I sure wouldn't be here. But it's a number 1 resource site you won't find anywhere else.

You are 2 days in the green, and what a arrogant mouth did you grow in 48 hours.

WAW!

Now go back to Yahoo finance. You're testing my nerves.

 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:39 | 1235692 walcott
walcott's picture

It is one sided! fuck 'em

buy the living crap out of physical silver 

BTLCOOPS!

irregardless of price.

If they rip it down to $5 then buy thousands of ounces!

Then you won't give a crap if you bought a couple hundred oz.'s at $50.

 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:45 | 1235699 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Texas hedge... very clever.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:56 | 1235933 goldfreak
goldfreak's picture

Jon Nadler is back with a new troll screen name! welcome back Jonny

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:25 | 1235640 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

This isn't a one sided coverage. This site is the collective brainwork of thousands.

Tyler starts the topics and the readers fill in the rest.

If ZH was one sided, I sure wouldn't be here. But it's a number 1 resource site you won't find anywhere else.

You are 2 days in the green, and what a arrogant mouth did you grow in 48 hours.

WAW!

Now go back to Yahoo finance. You're testing my nerves.

 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:03 | 1235747 sj213
sj213's picture

somewhat = one word.

 

One.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:00 | 1235558 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

a few of us here were saying cash some of your chips at $48....  but hell, some of ya won't ever sell so why do they even bother to look at the price each day?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 18:37 | 1236101 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

I cashed half my chips at 47.17, the half that were SLV. That reduced the cost of the other half, the physical half, to $0.00, after taxes.

I can't wait for it to go to $20/oz, then I'll load up again.

Eventually, all the silver on the planet will be buried in my back yard. Not. Actually, I put it all in bank deposit boxes, and for those of you who think the government will seize it, you're fuk ed in the head piece. Never gonna' happen. Ever.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:22 | 1235632 bothsidesnow
bothsidesnow's picture

Exactly most investors or protectors for wealth as you all call yourselves either lighten up on their position to lock in some profits or hedge their position to lock in their profits. I believe 70% gain is a good indicator for the majority of investors/protectors of wealth.

But when you are betting on the end of the world like you all are no need to hedge hence the name Zero Hedge.

Betting on the end of the world is a bad bet, it only happens once, and I'm pretty sure you all are not going to be around either, hence your survival is zero with your silver, glocks, ammo, and whiskey.

Enjoy life,  take some time away from polishing your glocks and silver rounds because in the end your going to die like the rest of us, and your glocks and rounds will be weathered by nature and returned to the crust of the earth.

 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:33 | 1235670 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

The world only ends once - but it changes all the time. 

If I sold at $48 and bought today - it'd be a wash with the premium - so why bother?  This is a fantastic buying opportunity.  Planning on backing up the truck tomorrow, regardless. 

If Ag keeps going down - I'll keep stacking.  Ain't like fiat's going to go up in value with these clowns at the helm...

 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:37 | 1235673 Dr. Impossible
Dr. Impossible's picture

funny you use the "End of the world" analogy....historically..there are many of people that have forecasted the end of the world, most of those people were highly religious ..fanatics to say the least. and some had surprising accuracy, when taken into context that they couldn't see past there religious beliefs.and so as the time came, it wasn't the world that died, but their religion died, it was the end of the world to them. mostly by conquest of other nations wiping out whole cultures, and religions.

so..."END of the World" prophecies heighten my sense for fanatical activities. most here on ZH already realize the dollar a done religion, and just trying to have something to start with for the next go. but some are still in denial. those people can be seen clearly by their posts.pity them that do know not, but do not spare those that keep their eyes wide shut.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:09 | 1235764 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

Religion ranks high in the bullshit department.

I miss George Carlin

No go and junk me if it makes you happy

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 18:41 | 1236120 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

"Religion ranks high in the bullshit department."

Oh, why don't you just kiss my hairy Zoroaster while you're at it?  Just kidding.  I had to do that.  It was just too tempting to pass up.  By the way, I am in full agreement.  For pure, unadulterated bullshit religion has no equal.  Well, maybe Real Housewives of New York. 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:57 | 1235554 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

look at a chart - 26s just in january

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:59 | 1235567 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

and that was my last big buy...  wish I was bigger player since I caught that dip and just called this last top...   but I am just a tiny silver/gold bug

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:44 | 1235496 unky
unky's picture

so that means jp morgan holds its owns silver or what?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:55 | 1235548 css1971
css1971's picture

What it means is that JP morgan holds paper certificates for the silver which is stored in their vaults and are apparently, also borrowing and selling silver to push the price down... I think it must mean they must know something about the silver they are storing in their vaults which nobody else knows.

Or something like that.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:45 | 1235497 CitizenPete
CitizenPete's picture

So some of the same organizations that are short are just hedging their long positions?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:52 | 1235535 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Would make sense since SLV is a paper trade and in theory, they would not be adding to demand in order to be long.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:44 | 1235501 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

And more curiously: JPMorgan, with 3.6 million shares is the 5th largest SLV holders.

They're holding the paper shares in their vault to offset the Silver that's missing. Stay tuned for next week's installment when JP Morgan admits they've been holding Santa Claus on ice for over 75 years.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:18 | 1235617 Dr. Impossible
Dr. Impossible's picture

"They're holding the paper shares in their vault to offset the Silver that's missing" did you mean....there photo copying shares...or maybe even ...drafting shares? writing IOU's? frn's? maybe even issuing FTD's?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:47 | 1235502 ivana
ivana's picture

Jesus what a list of "reliable & trustworthy" companies

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:47 | 1235505 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

This is eerily similar to a robotrader post.   OT: when does the clueless economist publish his oped piece in the Times recommending the FED sell their gold?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:03 | 1235571 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

or raise interest rates.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:46 | 1235509 monopoly
monopoly's picture

sudden debt, as always you are too much. lolol luv it.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:49 | 1235512 wang
wang's picture

not a good day but Q1 seems to have been pretty good (how much of those investments were courtesy of  qe2 ?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:53 | 1235527 monopoly
monopoly's picture

wang, I have had lots of bad days since I started trading real currency. But, have 0 complaints, long term it has been a very very nice ride. Just gotta stay focused. And, NO Margin!!

:)

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:51 | 1235522 monopoly
monopoly's picture

I have been to this movie before and I just keep adding a little here and there the lower we go. Putting some worthless confetti to work. Another day or two and...well, we shall see.

Long a bunch.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:51 | 1235531 MrBoompi
MrBoompi's picture

What is a pension fund doing on this list? If I was a beneficiary of that pension I would be screamin bloody murder to stand for physical delivery now.

As for the rest of them, looks like a who's who of corporate crime.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:55 | 1235538 lordcoke
lordcoke's picture

fucktards: paper silver is worthless.  if you want to know the price of silver just go to ebay.  those that choose to frolick w banktards will no doubt be the first to burn.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:57 | 1235540 earnulf
earnulf's picture

I agree with the long outlook.   Fed has no choice but to keep things from failing in whatever manner possible for as long as possible.    This is another drop that allows for more buying at a better position.    Nothing like a 15-20% correction to clear the slate.  

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:16 | 1235613 Mercury
Mercury's picture

To the extent that silver is a hedge against currency debasement (or expected debasement) then it's overvalued when it's rate of appreciation exceeds the rate of actual or expected currency debasement.  I don't think anyone can seriously argue that the $US has lost 70% of it's real purchasing power since Jan 1.  So, regardless of what happens in the future, right now silver as a dollar hedge is overvalued.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:57 | 1235937 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I think this was Jim Roger's point as well...  of course, the trick is to time sentiment and be the first to panic...  apparently too many people had that idea at the same time and eventually had second thoughts...

Regardless, BTFD.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 22:17 | 1236701 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Unless, of course, its value had been suppressed for some 20 odd years while the dollar was continue to lose value (albeit at a lesser pace than today) and silver's just catching up to the degree to which the dollar had depreciated.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:56 | 1235541 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

God Damn this is going to be good.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:55 | 1235547 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I expect a modest uptick in silver tomorrow. Dead catz and all that. Might not be a bad time to go short or buy your favorite inverse double.

Then again this could be the worst advice you ever heard.

If you invest based on anonymous posts you deserve your fate, good or bad.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:04 | 1235577 fuu
fuu's picture

With 1-5% daily moves what do you consider modest?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:13 | 1235611 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

A couple of bucks maybe. I guess that isnt very modest!

I think it will take its good sweet time breaking the 50 dma, if at all.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:04 | 1235585 SME MOFO
SME MOFO's picture

its odd to get a bottom call from a top calling troll

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 15:59 | 1235552 citta vritti
citta vritti's picture

aren’t some of the banks holding these shares reporting not as principals but on a collective basis as custodians for their clients, who in this regard may or may not be following bank advice? If so, the seeming dissonance may not be as great as it seems.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:31 | 1235665 SME MOFO
SME MOFO's picture

street name was my first thought also

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:01 | 1235563 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

wonder if the bullion banks were buyers or sellers of physical today? bet they drove it down with paper, and picked up the real mccoy at a 20% discount from friday's close.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:00 | 1235565 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

So JPM can claim they own silver (SLV) to back up the silver in their SLV and COMEX  vaults, which are probably empty. My head is spinning now.

Looking mighty Ponzi to me.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:03 | 1235569 White.Star.Line
White.Star.Line's picture

Paper silver can pay you back in three ways:

1) Paper profits
2) Paper losses
3) Washed completely out to sea to the debt tsunami paper vortex

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:04 | 1235578 FinallyBought
FinallyBought's picture

I've been reading for months. Is silver a bubble, is it not.  Has it peaked, has it not.  All I know is that very few people I know own silver.

One friend actually even just changed in maybe 200 or more half dollars for cash.

He had no idea some of them might have been silver.  He felt sick after I showed him coin values.  $40 is a sale price as far as I can see and if it drops more, great I'll just keep buying.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:10 | 1235599 Arttrader
Arttrader's picture

I rarely see decent quantities of silver eagles on my local Craigslist.  Now I've seen Green Monster Boxes of 500 from multiple sellers.  I've never seen a monster box for sale on CL.  The physical is out there, and people are getting scared and it's hitting the market.  They're still asking a modest premium to spot.  A little lower, though, and we'll see people dropping the premium (and maybe more) so they don't lose their shirt.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:19 | 1235628 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

If it's on craigslist, there's a good chance it's probably aluminum.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 08:43 | 1237518 Arttrader
Arttrader's picture

Aluminum?  In a factory sealed monster box?  By the way, I'll weigh and acid test a sample if I bought a monster box.  I buy silver way below scrap on a regular basis to sell on ebay.  I sold the last of my non-designer brand inventory as scrap when spot was at $47.  Too much downside now to hold inventory.  There are plenty like me and even more taking the stuff to "Cash for Gold" and crap like that. 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 21:20 | 1236565 Sam Christie
Sam Christie's picture

I looked on CL here (covers 4 counties) and found 2 people selling silver eagles. One has 87 of them for sale and a 1/2 oz gold eagle. The other is selling 4 (yep four) silver eagles.

Hardly a bonanza of inventory there.

The powers want physical holders to get scared. How else are they going to get you to part with your physical?

A rising price is causing people to hang tighter onto their silver, yes?

There's always someone else on the other side of the trade.

 

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 08:47 | 1237537 Arttrader
Arttrader's picture

Well here (I won't share where for OPSEC), but it's historically recognized as a bit of a microcosm of the US.  Even with not being a top 10 city, we're seeing MONSTER BOXES from MULTIPLE sellers.  That's 500 ounces.  How many other, less motivated, are trying to flood the coin dealers (I'll check in this week with our local) or responding to the appeal from APMEX (buying silver in all quantities).  Sorry for the low inventory in your area.  I'm guessing there's a proportionately small market of buyers, too.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:02 | 1235580 I Am The Unknow...
I Am The Unknown Comic's picture

well then forget about the idea of margin requirements being raised on SLV ETF, because this would have the same effect as raising reserve requirements for these same TBTF banksters.  That would be deflationary, and we can't have that, now can we?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:05 | 1235582 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

Is SLV the fund that invests in imaginary silver?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 22:24 | 1236714 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Yeah. 

Harvey Organ's commentary on the purported fluctuations in their holdings is priceless.  A couple times in March while they were taking all month to find silver to deliver to the last few hundred longs at the COMEX, SLV suddenly credited itself with a million more ounces, as though this was no big deal.

Read Harvey's report.  He always goes over what SLV says from day to day.  It becomes risible at times.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:04 | 1235584 Caveman93
Caveman93's picture

Paper = Phail

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:05 | 1235587 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

do higher goods prices equate with no inflation?  or is it simply a question of "another wave of defaults"--this time at "something higher than the bank level."  and "if i say arf, arf" will they say that on TV as well?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:06 | 1235588 monopoly
monopoly's picture

So, just did the math. Am now down 5.5% from my all time high. What is the big deal about a correction in miners, etc. Gold down like, 40.00 from its high. And sure, silver is more volatile, no way you do margin with that sucker.

I luv the doom posts about how it is a top...again. Lets see. That would be top number 91.

Have a great night all.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:23 | 1235592 tyler
tyler's picture

Who the hell is chilton investments?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:43 | 1235702 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Clarence Beeks, CEO.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 22:25 | 1236721 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Apparently they've branched out from those guides on how to fix your specific make and model car yourself.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:09 | 1235593 Apostle of Unknown
Apostle of Unknown's picture

I don't get this post. Are you making fun of these SLV holders having had so much profit and now going through a good, healthy correction???

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:09 | 1235595 PicassoInActions
PicassoInActions's picture

Once again same Question.

 

If there is not enough physical silver for delivery, it seems it will be logical for paper holders to get rid of those papers , which will drive the price down. AM i missing something?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:16 | 1235602 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Wish I had locked in more paper profits to turn into physical.  Oh well, just will have to wait for the end of the week.

By the way, it's not surprising looking at the list that these rat bastards would wait for small volume days and in the globex to take profits and add to the validity that their puppet Shitanke knows what he's doing.  Knowing these assholes were in on the trade, it makes the relationship with paper silver that much more platonic.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:14 | 1235605 Billy Shears
Billy Shears's picture

It's all really very simple you believe in fiat currencies holding thier worth or you don't! From a historical perspective there is no question, given the US fiscal and budgetary condition, the Dollar is going down the toilet, every other move in silver is a manipulated smoke screen...BTFD FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:16 | 1235621 FinallyBought
FinallyBought's picture

I agree. I think silver will be like gas.  We will never see $1.25 gas again.  I don't think we will see $20 silver either. Worse case $25-$50 for an extended period.  Just like gas has been $2-$4.50 for 6 years now.  EVENTUALLY we will see $7 gas, $70 silver (and of course $7 bread and milk)

My kids will not know $1.20 gas like I don't know my fathers's 35 cent gas.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:12 | 1235607 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Annual silver mine production now paper-flipped in its entirety every 20 minutes.

World record volume traded on SLV and PSLV today.  Silver contract futures volume must have been monstrous.

Monex prices finally cratered.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:15 | 1235609 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

if silver had gone to $60 earlier in the year, and had fallen back to $40 or so as it did today, wonder how many of the trash talkers would be buying physical in this area at a 33% discount? watch carefully. a lot of the trash talkers are gonna turn into the biggest silver cheerleaders when they step up and buy at whatever their level of comfort is.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:03 | 1235752 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

You bet.

I will start slowly buying if it hits the 100 dma.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 18:46 | 1236140 jm
jm's picture

This is how it should be. 

Silver doesn't make a good religion.  It is a trade.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 01:29 | 1237122 longorshort
longorshort's picture

Oh Yah I saw that episode too of BTFD.  Tell all your frieds to BTFD so you can sell yours at a profit.  Yep  Good plan.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:16 | 1235620 gwar5
gwar5's picture

BAC, Wells Fargo, Morgan Stanley, RBC, JP Morgan, BlackRock Advisors, BlackRock Limited, UBS, Citigroup.... Gee, we only seem to be missing Goldman Sach and HSBC.

Well, no wonder there's so many trolls haunting the financial internet sites.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:20 | 1235635 6 String
6 String's picture

Yup. Definately. All is back to normal. Banging on the Dow up until close for the perfect. .00% landing. After westen hours trading in Silver nice and tame like there was never any volitility to begin with.

Yep. It's the whole thing is fucked. Confirmed in the bullshit trading, every day.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:27 | 1235643 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

basically, when you buy silver and gold you're pulling your money (frn) out of the fiat system. your money (frn) goes into a medium that stays in the safety deposit box for eternity. the fiat removed from the "system" is what hacks off tptb. and in a world ruined by devaluation, debauchery and mismanagement of monetary policy the holder of the silver and gold ought to be rewarded. tptb can't tolerate that because if the peons are getting rich (or holding their own) then they can't be controlled.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:47 | 1235709 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Isn't that the very definition of trading for profit?  Buy low, sell high.  or Buy high, sell higher. 

Dude, oil was at 146 at one point...

 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:55 | 1235733 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

thanks for the tip. i eagerly await more wisdom from your corner of the universe.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:23 | 1235644 Billy Shears
Billy Shears's picture

Just think about this, if in the 1970's you horded all the silver dimes you could get your hands on, at that time there were still plenty around, you could buy your gallon of gas for $0.10 today! Now, all of you know this I realize because some of you actually did it. Now if you owned a gas station and someone came in an offered to pay for a gallon of gas in silver dimes, you wouldn't trade? I think you would.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:30 | 1235656 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

So, JP Morgan is short physical silver but long paper silver?

Nice.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:32 | 1235668 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

As I expected, JPM's chart is much stronger than NEM's.

I doubt they were really short any silver in size.

Probably a small position for hedging purposes only.

They are still building beautiful new branches all over the place here in Los Angeles.

Business must be good.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:42 | 1235700 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Let me be the first to junk you for your appalling ignorance.

 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:07 | 1235765 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

You live in LA?  Alles Klar...

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:19 | 1235815 bothsidesnow
bothsidesnow's picture

You got it Robot, the only people that think JPM held onto the Bear Sterns PM portfolio are ZHers. Do you really think anyone would hold onto a short from what $4 all the way to $50. Just a crazy idea, no one would do that.

Like the data shows JPM wen't long and realized some nice paper profits.

 

 

 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 18:06 | 1235958 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

No, they crashed gold from $1000 to $690 back then and took care of that particular "problem" they had. And silver was $20, not $4. You might remember the FED intervened of behalf of JPM to flush BS down the drain. Any other questions?

Some of you guys have attention spans of gnats.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 18:04 | 1235967 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

What was bear sterns involved in. Oh ya. Mortgage backed securities and international settlements. I wonder if the international settlments involved big fancy paper decrees like medieval scrolls with big fancy insignias and important looking stamps. Or if it involved gold and silver.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 18:02 | 1235959 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Then why all the pants pissers. If you got no skin in the game then why the army of trolls.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 20:55 | 1236523 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Lots of unemployed.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:34 | 1235672 esibz
esibz's picture

If it drops below 42 again I'm gonna have to lock in 120 eagles. Can't deny that great of a deal, I've been paying for them since 48spot

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:40 | 1235688 RacerX
RacerX's picture

Henry Hill: [narrating] And then there was Jimmy Two Times, who got that nickname because he said everything twice, like:
Jimmy Two Times: I'm gonna go get the papers, get the papers.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:42 | 1235695 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I don't suppose anyone noticed that gold posted an all time closing high today in London @ $1540.25?

Yes, all the Goldbugs are shaking in their boots. LMAO.

 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 16:46 | 1235711 Dr. Impossible
Dr. Impossible's picture

at such a discount....when does a big trader come by and put a floor in for all physical? not paper....but any and all physical..mine direct w/e. like last weeks apmex offer but without the floating tag to spot?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:03 | 1235748 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

We have the asian put as the floor, but it is hard to know where it is.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:39 | 1235882 bothsidesnow
bothsidesnow's picture

Asia bid it up last night to a little over $45. It was strange Au down and Ag up. Need to watch Asian action tonight I think the Asian put may be at $45.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:50 | 1235907 bothsidesnow
bothsidesnow's picture

Today's low was 38.2% Fib retracement from the January low to the recent high. Should see a move up from here.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 18:24 | 1236050 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I hope you are right.

I want to try to double down on zsl

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:01 | 1235740 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

Historically. if you suppress silver, you also suppress gold.  Even though there are arguments that these two metals have decoupled, I'm not buying.  There's over 10x debt to world GDP, and the PMs are the only true safe haven.  The Asians know this; westerners are still in denial.  More of them than us.

Silver only in recent years was 1/60th gold; small market, easier (and cheaper)than gold to naked short and manipulate.  Some asshole on CNBC today said that the historic GSR was 60:1, but we know differently.  The corrupt CFTC will never set position limits; that's a lost cause.  The lawsuits against JPM will go nowhere since the judges have already been bought.  So it will be up to the market, which would have been same-o, same-o for a few more years if it weren't for Max Keiser, Bill Murphy, Tyler, Sprott and others to prove that silver is a disappearing resource that is critically needed, not only for electronic, electrical, water purification, medical applications, but also for a wide range of munitions.  Regardless of a global economic recovery or not, the industrial/military uses of silver will not significantly decline, but the investment demand should accelerate.  Silver mining production will increase, but not by enough.

Be patient folks; by this time next year there will be an epiphany.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:30 | 1235858 bothsidesnow
bothsidesnow's picture

What about debt to asset ratio is that 10 times I don't think so. 

Regarding future unfunded liabilities of the US Government seems to me if we play this hyperinflation scenario out to it's illogical conclusion of gold $8,000 and silver $500 I believe the US comes out looking pretty good given the vast amount of Federal land in the West that has not been mined same goes with oil. Yes, let's not forget agricultural production and grain reserves. 

Last time I checked solvency was based on a ledger sheet that has assets on one side and liabilties on the other side and future liabilities and assets get discounted to the present using the same discount rate.

So US government deficit doesn't really matter as Cheney proclaimed becasue it is more than backed by the assets held by the Federal government.

 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 18:14 | 1235996 css1971
css1971's picture

Liabilities are dollars, assets are things.

Accounting practices assume that money is a constant. Simply and demonstrably not true.

What's an asset worth? Changes depending on the money... As house owners have been finding.

 

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 18:47 | 1236116 Kina
Kina's picture

Why the frantic naked short selling of silver, the full court press of MSM anti silver stories and the recent rise of sockpuppet and trolls on gold and silver?

 

Why the absolute corruption of the CFTC who ignore persistent blatant corruption in the market? Why did they have a judget that said they would never find for a plaintif?

 

The cartel is shitting its pants big time and is in full desperation mode to take down silver. Only thing is they can only sell pieces of unbacked paper. The physical silver is moving more and more into hands that wont give it up and are looking for more and the silver that is available is bought up by Asia at cheap prices making their troubles worse. The more they short and cheapen silver the easy the make for the physical to removed from the market into strong hands.

These turkies will need continued direct access to BB printing press to keep their game going. But when their pieces of paper silver backed by FRN are worth dog shit they....will rush to BB to be bailed out by every increasing quanities of worthless FRN.

 

I will be keeping an eye on Perth Mint silver prices looking for a few more thou oz this week. Thanks to the morgue.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 19:23 | 1236267 schoej
schoej's picture

Aren't most of the big bank holdings simply a reflection of the fact that retail customer holdings are held in the bank's name at the Depository Trust Co. (DTCC)?  In other words, of course JP Morgan is the biggest holder of SLV, they have ten's of thousands of clients who own it in their retail accounts, which are held at DTCC in the name not of the retail accounts, but of JP Morgan?

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 20:14 | 1236407 Johnny Yuma
Johnny Yuma's picture

This is just a grouping of these bank's proprietary mutual fund holdings. This has nothing to do with the bank's owning them on their own balance sheets.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 23:07 | 1236846 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

If you people spent 1/10th of the amount of time you spend trying to ply your losses, you would be Buffites! Study the charts, and grow some balls! It's boring when you're right. Kinda like Astronaut Training!!!

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