Putin Prepared To Avoid Dollar In Chinese Commodity Transactions

Tyler Durden's picture

A week ago the world was split into two camps: those who said Robert Fisk was an idiot and that anyone who believes him is a tinfoil hat wearing paranoid sociopath, and those who said Robert Fisk was brilliant and that anyone who does not believe him is an unimaginative, unintelligent, conservative boor. Yet nobody tried to confirm or deny his data. Today, Russia's Prime Minister and de facto viceroy Vladimir Putin finally made it clear that the presumably insane Fisk was not making stuff up.

RIA Novosti reports:

BEIJING, October 14 (RIA Novosti) - Russia is ready to consider
using the Russian and Chinese national currencies instead of the dollar
in bilateral oil and gas dealings, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said
on Wednesday.

The premier, currently on a visit to Beijing, said a final decision
on the issue can only be made after a thorough expert analysis.

"Yesterday, energy companies, in particular Gazprom, raised the
question of using the national currency. We are ready to examine the
possibility of selling energy resources for rubles, but our Chinese
partners need rubles for that. We are also ready to sell for yuans,"
Putin said.

He stressed that "there should be a balance here."

On Tuesday, Russia and China agreed terms for Russian gas deliveries
at a level of up to 70 billion cubic meters a year. China also imports
oil from Russia.

The Russian prime minister said the issue would be addressed among
others at a meeting of Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) finance
ministers, who are to convene before the end of the year in Kazakhstan.

So while others debate the validity of the messenger, as traditional Western mindset is so much much more willing to do, instead of considering the actual message content (and how to rectify if it is a bad one, instead of simply ignoring it), the dollar is soon going to find itself all alone, playing in a corner with itself, as Bernanke and Obama push the S&P to 1 gazillion, while at the same time America becomes removed from any future reserve currency intermediation and becomes a peripheral, if not outright third world, country, rife with social conflict once the middle class finally wakes up to its rape and pillage, far after it has become too late.

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Anonymous's picture

Reads like Leo Wanta.
Never mind insiders long dollar, peso and pound,
while short Aussie, Euro, Kiwi, Loonie, and Ruble.

Anonymous's picture

I've always wanted to be a gazillionaire!

Anonymous's picture

I've always wanted to be a gazillionaire!

Great Depression Trader's picture

You said it Tyler. It will be too late for the middle class as they wont realize they have been raped and pillaged until they end up broke. The problem is that the US is armed to the teeth with the worlds largest and most advanced military.

It is key to understand that from the death of a republic, an empire is born. We are not a full fledged empire yet because if we were then we would start mass murdering Iraqis and tell them to their face that their oil is now ours. Of course, we are still killing Iraqis but we could kill millions within a few days if we used more toys in the arsenal. US still has some semblance of self control and is still aware that the world is watching its behavior in Iraq/Afghanistan. Thus, the US is probably a hybrid of republic/empire, or a repumpire.

However, the day will come when the events that you describe above will unfold. The dollar will get trashed, prices will spike, people will be anger and social unrest will ensue. This is when the empire will be born. The US will be a deeply wounded nation, and, as it has shown that it doesnt take responsibility for its actions, the blame game will begin. Do you really think our policy makers, rulers, financiers will be able to say "we did this to ourselves, we messed up?" No, instead the blame will lie with "foreign currency manipulators". They will blame China, Russia, Brazil, and other nations for "financial terrorism". As most people here are so dumb and ignorant, they will probably go along with it. Americans will easily accept security over liberty. Thus, security will prevail.


Pax Americana will soon be over. The empire itself wont last too long as most of them die out quickly. So just be forewarned. The real troubles will begin when the last vestiges of the American republic is dead. In the new America, this website will probably be banned. In the new America, the entire world could possibly be plunged into a era of darkness for several centuries. Lets hope i am wrong. I pray i am wrong. The facts, however, the cold hard truth, points in this direction.



Sqworl's picture

Extreme scenario...so what are you saying invest in defense stocks?? Buy amo?? or simply run across the nearest border?

Great Depression Trader's picture

The reason for the comment was to respond to tylers assertion that the US will be a third world country. We may be a 3rd world nation, but a very dangerous and militarily powerful one. No one ever asks the question: what happens after the dollar devaluation is complete? The most commonly stated scenario is "one world government". Im not sold on that theory as too many people are nationalistic and prideful of their own soveriegnty. Thus, the empire america scenario isnt too extreme if u look at the facts.

With regards to investing, i have no idea. Precious metals for sure. Oil, as wars will likely be in our future. Living in the US, it depends on where you live. I dont know how bad the major cities will be but i definitely dont want to be living in LA in the next decade. Rural areas with good rainfall are a must. Personally, i plan on moving to the western coast of greece. Small population, good people, rich farmland with +30 inches of rain a year. Rivers, lakes, islands, fish, sheep. This is where i plan on hiding out if things get "dark".

Anonymous's picture

Isn't Greece always the first rest stop every time the Red Menace begins to march?

Howard_Beale's picture

I appreciate your thoughts and want to offer a different way to see things because perhaps there is another perspective. As the swing of global financial power shifts to the East, it does not mean that the essence of our humanity has to be adjudicated to censorship, protectionism, government control, and all of the other fears we can muster.

Perhaps, it will be the end of complacent behavior and herd mentality that are the true bondage of apathy that has kept us where we are since the 60's, the last vestige of true rebellion. Maybe we are on the threshhold of a paradigm shift to what is truly important in life as our currency is debased due to a cesspool of debt. Take all the crap we have away--providing we do not turn into a third world country with starvation as a major concern--and maybe we will have a different foundation--similar to what we had coming out of the 30's that actually appreciated what we had as opposed to what we wanted. Fuck all that. It's nonsense, anyway. Get your widescreen now while you can!

We have been taught to believe in consumption as a religion. Buy more, you need it, it makes you a better person to own this and that for your personal identity. Maybe it's time this country got back to the roots of what makes it great. I truly believe the Constitution isn't going anywhere. We're a fierce bunch. Civil wars? Possible with a severe depression. Hungry, angry people--a very real possibility, but there is another possibility and that is people will reach out to eachother--all the middle class which I am one that will lend a hand or help those in need. I have been adjusting for years. Get what you need, not what you want. It seems to be happening all over since last year when people started saving. On the other side of the world they want what we have--materialism is contagious. But that doesn't make it right or even sane.

We do hold up the world in terms of consumer spending--they all need us and if we can spend no more there will be a worldwide implosion/depression. China is a bubble. India's richest retailer sells items for pennies. But as I posted on another thread there is a cycle of nations put out by Sir Alex Fraser Tyler. It's all just food for thought but I am going under medical treatment for a serious disease and downright refuse to live in fear anymore. Something good can come out of the ugliest of situations. Let it be said, I am not a religious person and raised with nothing but a Buddhist foundation. But I pray for my son that his life is full of joy, not money. I also pray my 10 year old daughter gets through the swine flu. She was released from the hospital 3 days ago and it looks like she will make it, frail as she is, still sleeping 16 hours a day. Life, priorities, sanity. Don't let fear eat you alive.

I will repeat it here for you to ponder:

The Cycle of Nations:

--Sir Alex Fraser Tyler


"From bondage to spiritual faith.

From spiritual faith to great courage.

From courage to liberty.

From liberty to abundance.

From abundance to selfishness.

From selfishness to complacency.

From complacency to apathy.

From apathy to dependency.

From dependency back again into bondage."

Argos's picture

There is an Inuit tribe that migrates each and every year.  And on this migration, they must cross a swift, cold river.  If you are too old, or sick, you do not make it across the river.  America has now met the river.

Howard_Beale's picture

The eskimos let the elderly go out to freeze to death. It is their way.

calgaryschmooze's picture

Really, it's the Canadian way...



Those who aren't sensitive this Friday night might consider punching Talking To Americans into Youtube and (hopefully) having a laugh.

Please excuse me while I pull on my seal skin pants and boots before I start my night's work.

Marvin T Martian's picture

"Get your widescreen now while you can!"


actually i've bought two in the past few months. as well as a few urban survival vehicles. they're givin' 'em away! a boat, or 'escape pod' as we call it, is next. now, when things go 'dark' i'll be comfortably settled watching snowy re-runs of 'i love lucy' from the comfort of my bunker (which btw is conveniently located in an area of abundant fresh water and lively game, friendly, resourceful and witty locals wise enough to call me 'kurtz', etc).


...and it's all thanks to the prescient info gleaned here on ZH. everything not already paid for with the ample rewards of having been long gold for 6+ years will soon be settled with spread options 'cause i'll be damned if i know which way this show is headed- all i know is that it'll be volatile.


strange but (somewhat) true...

Howard_Beale's picture

Kudos to you. Good job at protecting what you will need. Remember, when they show up at your door, don't shoot 'em. There will be times when those of us that have prepared will have to give back. It's the right thing to do. And you can get free labor for your generosity. 

Anonymous's picture

it's prudent to have one's bunker in a locale where the rule of law is 'flexible', but nevertheless it's wise to pay labor a fair rate and cultivate goodwill in the meantime.

never take advantage and do no harm.

unlike most of the gun-nuts in the US, i've seen up-close the effects of bullets on frail human flesh, so i plan on never inflicting that myself. if they need it that badly, they can have it.

one of the few things i am sure of is that wealth isn't how much you have, it's how much you give.

lastly, a homeless man in the bowery told me years ago "ask not what your conscience can do for you, but what you can do for your conscience!". new york was different then, the world was different then. the corporations have won, at least this round. anyway, i gave the man a buck.

Anonymous's picture

I also met a homeless man who assumed that I felt guity about being well-off (he was wrong). He was angry that no one would "give him" a job. Instead of burdening him with my evil money, I gave him advice instead; teach a man to fish...
Also, I bet that the last thought an anti-gun wacko has when meeting a murderer is, "I wish I had a gun!".

Dr Richard C. Reno, M.D.

Great Depression Trader's picture

From abundance to selfishness.

From selfishness to complacency.

From complacency to apathy.

From apathy to dependency.

From dependency back again into bondage.

Great reply. Thanks for taking the time to respond and put in your 2 cents. So you know I am not afraid, just preparing myself for what could possibly be a real unpleasant future in the USA. Thankfully i have strong roots in western greece (family, friends, houses, 100's of acres of land) in the event things become unbearable here. We are getting close as it is.

From abundance to selfishness: we are already at this point and beyond. People made money ripping others off during the boom, now loan "mod" fraud is rampant on the way down. How despicable that people would rip others off when they are at the worst, right before they lose there abode. Fuck these scum.

From selfishness to complacency.

From complacency to apathy: these two phases are happening together and we are already there. Wars in afghanistan and Iraq continue no protests in sight. In fact, the G20 in Pittsburgh had 4000 military police for only 1000 protestors. Police state in full glory. 1 in 100 are in jail or prison in the US. Our people eat high fructose corn syrup while it is banned worldwide. Our cows and chickens are so pumped full of hormones that God only knows the effects on the human body. It costs over $25,000 to have your appendix removed. $40,000 for thyroid removal. 50 million uninsured in such a God awful and perverse medical system. Banks lie and get bailed out with printed money. People lose their homes while bankers pay themselves millions. Empty and trashy TV shows reign while knowledge is shunned. Britney makes the front page while Ron Paul is barely known. Education costs have skyrocketed and yet people continue to accept $35,000 a year tuition.  We who read ZH are few and the "fringe" of mainstream society.

From apathy to dependency: millions of americans are dependent on the government dole. This number will surely grow. Heres a shocking number that adds more credence to my argument that US will be a empire soon: the US armed forces had their BEST recruitment year EVER. 108% of target. Remember in 2005 when the military was having trouble recruiting people to fight overseas? Remember the $20000 signup bonus? Now the military cant even accomodate the flood of applicants. So not only are people now apathetic to the fact that they will likely kill people, but they are also depending on the gov for their very livelihood (food, pay, shelter) in the army barracks. Also, consider the pharmacuetical industry as millions of americans are on all different types of medication: ADDEROL, XANAX, PROZAC being the worst. We have the highest ratio of pill poppers in the world. People are resorting to drugs because they cant handle life anymore. Life, which the system has made unbearable.

Howard_Beale's picture

Great analysis from my post and greatly appreciated. But this is a 300 year cycle. Think back to our founding fathers and that is the beginning. Our courage was in the 1800's. We did not get selfish until the 1950's. Complacency set in. We are in the latter stages of the empire and in terms of bondage--the bondage of debt, taxpayer bailouts, government assistance, and welfare. Thanks for thinking about it and expounding. The more we all think about this, the better we are prepared.

tip e. canoe's picture

don't forget OXYCONTIN, courtesy of our friendly neighborhood opium traffickers the Taliban.

Howard_Beale's picture

+1, While it may seem to have little to do with a 300 year cycle--Celebrex, Prozac, Opiates, Addirol (sp?), Rittalin--all part of a complacent and apathetic society that works too hard to deal with their own children is rampant.  Bondage from the freedom to deal with life is a serious problem.  Perhaps your post truly does fit in. :)

tip e. canoe's picture

perhaps all of these cycles are circling faster and faster and faster until they collapse in on themselves?

Anonymous's picture

But the person who appears to be the actual author of this passage is none of the men named above. They were not born from the mouth or pen of a political leader or historian or famous author. Rather, they would seem to be the words of Henning Webb Prentis, Jr., President of the Armstrong Cork Company.

In a speech entitled "Industrial Management in a Republic," delivered in the grand ballroom of the Waldorf Astoria at New York during the 250th meeting of the National Conference Board on March 18, 1943, Prentis had this to say about

Paradoxically enough, the release of initiative and enterprise made possible by popular self-government ultimately generates disintegrating forces from within. Again and again after freedom has brought opportunity and some degree of plenty, the competent become selfish, luxury-loving and complacent, the incompetent and the unfortunate grow envious and covetous, and all three groups turn aside from the hard road of freedom to worship the Golden Calf of economic security. The historical cycle seems to be: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to apathy; from apathy to dependency; and from dependency back to bondage once more.

Anonymous's picture

No, it pre-dates 1943. Here is the quote in more context:
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage." -- frequently ascribed to Alexander Tyler (or Tytler) (Scottish history professor at The University of Edinbourough in 1787 (The Fall of the Athenian Republic).

This is why the Framers loathed "democracy" and strongly believed a republic was the best. What has happened over the past 100 years, we have weakened republic / states' rights at every turn toward "democracy" which they likened to a derivative of mob rule.

deadhead's picture

Howard...that is beautifully written.  Bravo!

Anonymous's picture

it feels like the American dream went supernova a long time ago and all of us we've just been bathing in its death light.

only thing we can hope for is the birth of a new star, a new Dream.

Cistercian's picture

 Let us hope they don't decide to back the dollar with highly enriched uranium and plutonium.IE: a third world country with Nuclear weapons.LOTS and LOTS of them.

 I am afraid empires always run amok as they disintegrate....and the fallout (pun intended) from the US doing so would be very grave indeed.

Pondmaster's picture

The most commonly stated scenario is "one world government".

Not sold on that story ? One posit here . If J6P now believes "the lie" coming out of Washington and the Fed . Why wouldn't the worlds J6P's believe we need a "world government " to solve all the issues that have evolved from this finance /debt crisis . IMHO its all setting up perfectly for same . One currency ( no more global devaluations) One leader over one nation , or is it "Many Nations One Voice "? Just sayin .

tip e. canoe's picture

pondmaster, if you have ever lived in NYC, you may realize that many nations will never speak in one voice.  please don't think i'm advocating 1 world government (personally i choose to believe that 'smaller is better'), but if it does indeed come to that, it may not be as ruthlessly efficient as one may think.

Hephasteus's picture

Nationalism has nothing to do with it.  The danger of one world government is that it eventually stops caring about anybody but itself and gives everyone nothing but pain. The only thing keeping people from being too big of a pain is other people there setting limits on it. If we have a one world government based on fictional fractional reserve principles it will be an ass kissing contest and people will give and give to get very little while the one world government takes and takes and takes and gives very little.

Anonymous's picture

The Great American Military is the German Tiger Tank of WWII, thirsty, over engineered, high price to unit, in limited numbers and land locked.

Skippy...hell peek-a-boos with old communist block weapons are handing our ass to us...get real friend.

Crab Cake's picture

"It will be too late for the middle class as they wont realize they have been raped and pillaged until they end up broke."  (Probably true, but don't assume that realization will be a slow process once it dawns.)

"It is key to understand that from the death of a republic, an empire is born."  Ok, this is not Rome, not a hard currency system, not the frontiers, none of it.  There are a lot of good fine people in this country who have very fne weaponry, and the government cannot overthrow the people in mass.  This is scenario is not the Weimar Republic melting down over concessions at Versaille. (With a virtually unarmed German population.) I's actually a lot closer to the French Revolution & American Revolution if you are looking for rhymes.  (Tennis Court of US states, The Intolerable Taxes, nay Common Zero?...) Of course that the French Revoluion did in fact wallow in madness until a general took ove.  You as a Historian aren't seeing  revolution and or anarchic devolution and or interrngum and or limited warfare in the nuclear age. 

Whatever comes of that morass will be what the US is, and empire is only one of the possibilities.  You are making assumptions, and that is dangerous to being right.

Pax Americana will soon be over.  As a student of History, I would ask you, What Pax Americana? 

Our economy, and our nation, and our species are experimenting with exponential math and hockey stick graphs.  We live in unprecedented times.  Either we will realize that there is enough energy for the wealth and happiness for each and everyone of us, that we live on an a virtual perpetual motion machine, and are part of a living system that is in all measurable human scales infinitely powered.  Or.... Boom.  Do over for the species.... maybe. 

The question of our day is evolve or perish.  I believe our generation will witness whether or not we become planet Easter Island. 

tip e. canoe's picture

"The question of our day is evolve or perish."

agreed indeed.  while the epicenter may be in this land, it is obvious that what is occurring is a global phenomenon.  we in this country just happen to be the lucky bastards with the world's reserve currency (for now).

some food for thought on a friday night (wrapped in tinfoil) -- the mayan calendar & money:


p.s. howard -- you may want to get some collodial silver for your daughter -- not only excellent for preserving your wealth, but also your health.  wish you & your family great courage & unexpected joy.

walküre's picture

"The problem is that the US is armed to the teeth with the worlds largest and most advanced military."

Why is that a problem?

USA has the biggest balls. Don't mess with the US. I for one sleep better at nights knowing that the US is the biggest bully in the schoolyard. Without the US massive military supremacy, the world would long have gone the way of the dodo bird.

Hail America. Forget "Pax Americana". About time the US calls in a few favors from nations that have enjoyed many years of freedom and stability. The parasite nations out there need to cough up for years of sucking the US teet.

For the record, I'm German national and will be forever grateful that Americans liberated Europe and brought freedom to the politically insane and disturbed Krauts.

Anonymous's picture

In recent times, how has "America" saved the world from going the way of the dodo bird?

This is American mythology. I've lived here for years, went abroad, and came back and saw it for what it is. My wife works in a hospital and one of the nurses "accosted" her for an hour talking about how we are the light on the map of the world, and how others don't appreciate the freedom we bring them. The lady had tears in her eyes.

There are literally millions of datapoints that suggest that economic imperialism (trade basically) of a nuanced form is the reason for this massive military presence our the world. Nobody is going around spreading democracy bibles - if they are what are those bibles? And definitely not restoring economic freedom - more like resource extraction.

Still waiting for a response on this...

Lexington Duffet's picture

Kennedy's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers discusses in detail what it means to be a "great power" and how the "great powers" come to fail.  In sum, to be "great" is a relative advantage based on economic wealth, a status which is usually (always) lost as others copy your ideas; relying on military force to sustain the "great" status does not work and in fact hastens the societal  downfall.  IMO, the US gov has too many problems here to be F'ing around so much in the rest of the world.  we need to cut back.  

Thanks for the thanks, though. My granddad's were both small parts of the WWII effort.  

Rusty Shorts's picture

Great Depressio...,


The US Republic was dissolved in 1933 when FDR declared bankruptcy.



Read carefully, and note who was the receivers were.

JacksWastedLife's picture

War is a peace, debt is a recover, you know..

Fritz's picture

I spoke with Lloyd - he says its OK - The squid is on it. 


Anonymous's picture

Robert Fisk is an amazing journalist/social critic.No idea that he was covering Putin. John Malkovich, who openly expressed his desire to see Fisk dead, can go to hell. Bastard.

digalert's picture

I remain baffled, I wouldn't go so far as to call Turbo Timmy and Ben Balloon idiot's but WTF? They're the money guys, but as far a foreign policy, they should know that China and Russia are not our friends. These two would love nothing more than to knock the US off it's pedestal.

SilverIsKing's picture

We interrupt this program to bring you the following message:

Citizens Business Bank, Ontario, California, Assumes All of the Deposits of San Joaquin Bank, Bakersfield, California 


Cost to the DIF: $103 million

Anonymous's picture

BB and Tiny Tim might be running a bluff based on the assumption that Russia and China distrust each other enough that each will want to keep the US around for protection. US occupation of Iraq and/or Afghanistan is one thing. Russia or China is quite another, so they have no real reason to fear a US invasion. OTH, Russia and China share a very long border, so an invasion threat is much more realistic.

If the Chinese wanted to eliminate the US, all they have to do is start selling treasury debt. Sure, they might lose a trillion dollars. That is less than we have spent in Iraq.

The Russians are another matter. I suspect they see little advantage to a continued strong US economy or military. Obvious to anyone, with the possible exception of BB and Tiny Tim, a strong military requires a strong economy as opposed to a strong financial system.

Indeed, if the citizens of the US remain placid for a couple more years, the chances are very high of a complete meltdown within 10 years. Our government is elected by means of a more or less democratic process. So, we will have only ourselves to blame.

RockyR's picture

oh, the russians are just scared shitless of ensuing anarchy within their borders.  their economy is truly screwed.  let them scramble for a rope to hang themselves by...


/talking tough... much snark, little truth

Anonymous's picture

where do you get your news?

walküre's picture

Anything in Russia is for sale.

The entire nation has gone to flee market status.

Gordon_Gekko's picture

You mean just like the US?

deadhead's picture

+1 GG.

i always love how you sneak in with these items.  sometimes a phrase of several words beats a novel.