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A Question Of Scale: A Destroyed Nuclear Reactor And A Concrete Pump

Tyler Durden's picture




 

For all those who need a refresher of the scale issues at Fukushima, below we present a picture showing the scale comparison of a concrete pump and a destroyed nuclear reactor (in this case #4). A picture, in this case, is worth 1,000x scaling.

 

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Sun, 04/03/2011 - 13:56 | 1129965 Cursive
Cursive's picture

Goliath has nothing on this whopper.  And I don't see any Davids.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:23 | 1130035 Mae Kadoodie
Mae Kadoodie's picture

Another pump & dump operation.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:49 | 1130107 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

The concrete option failed on saturday.

The "nuclear experts" have now turned to plan b: DIAPERS, SAWDUST and NEWSPAPER!!!  When that fails too, will you feel safe when they next attempt to seal the cracked container with DUCT TAPE??

 

TOKYO –  Engineers pinned their hopes on chemicals, sawdust and shredded newspaper to stop highly radioactive water pouring into the ocean from Japan's tsunami-ravaged nuclear plant Sunday as officials said it will take several months to bring the crisis under control, the first time they have provided a timetable.

Concrete already failed to stop the tainted water spewing from a crack in a maintenance pit, and the new mixture did not appear to be working either, but engineers said they were not abandoning it.

 

...

 

Engineers tried to seal the crack with concrete Saturday, but that effort failed.

So on Sunday they went farther up the system and injected sawdust, three garbage bags of shredded newspaper and a polymer — similar to one used to absorb liquid in diapers — that can expand to 50 times its normal size when combined with water.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/03/engineers-pin-hopes-polymer-stop-nuke-leak/#ixzz1ITfNigVW

 

What happens when you pour a substance that expands 50 times it's normal size into a tight crevice?  Well, the answer is...YOU BUST OPEN WIDE THE CRACK!

YES!! THOSE IDIOTS ARE TRYING TO CRACK OPEN THE CONCRETE CONTAINER!!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:41 | 1130217 grok
grok's picture

assuming the article is all we have to go on (unless you know what is this polymer?) "can expand to 50 times.." does not imply "will expand to 50 times.."

 

I mean.. surely people there have more information than you/we do.  maybe they had at least the same thought that a layman would have?  maybe the mixture would expand upward where there is no resistance, eventually "boiling" over at the top if enough was poured?  what's the point of being one voice in a cacaphony of uninformed know-it-alls on the sidelines?  Yes surely I feel that the reaction hasn't been as good as it could have been, at least, in that surely we could have gotten generators airlifted in there before so many things went wrong.. but after that, how can anyone who isn't in the know be of any help with comments like this?  I guess you're just venting frustration..  I want to know why it took so long for other countries to step in and do something.  Also, I would not assume that communication between countries on this matter isn't happening by the minute.  You're relying on the MSM, for godsake!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:44 | 1130342 Broker NotBroke
Broker NotBroke's picture

what about lava? Could we trigger a volcanic eruption? Cover the damn thing in magma? Just spitballing.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:04 | 1131441 Freddie
Freddie's picture

One of the reasons why the Romans ruled the world is they knew how to harness water.  They also made cement that could be fashioned under water.  No one knew how they did it.  Supposedly lava rock was in the mix or something.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 04:14 | 1131566 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

lookup Hydraulic Cement on wikipedia, we still know the technology.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:23 | 1131459 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Or just cover it in spitballs and get it over with.

This is a tragedy of immense proportions and the response seems to be extremely delayed and lacking.

I know I am just typing on a keyboard about 8000 miles away but something's not right with this response business......

 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 08:48 | 1131806 Thomas
Thomas's picture

K-Y Jelly (but not for the reactor)

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 18:00 | 1130517 perchprism
perchprism's picture

 

It's "water-swellable powder", an acrylate salt.  It works best with distilled water, and is used to dry coat optical cables among other things, to make them water proof (absorbs water to become an impermeable gel).  Unfortunately, because it's a salt, it doesn't work well with salt water (about 20% as efficient with sea water).

 

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:13 | 1130269 bonderøven-farm ass
bonderøven-farm ass's picture

Perhaps we could send them pallets of our fiat.....we have no use for it here......

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:09 | 1131214 jo6pac
jo6pac's picture

Yep and thanks for the :) if this wasn't so sad

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:22 | 1130291 Nate Taggart
Nate Taggart's picture

Perhaps not burst containment, but certainly will clog the remaining cooling channels in the fuel.  Can't see how this is a good idea.  Of course when the alternative is a radioactive wasteland for miles around, what do they ahve to loose.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 18:54 | 1130600 DosZap
DosZap's picture

My question yet to see any explanation on, is WHY did TEPCO, allow a 25-30yr old set of 4, built to minimum GE specs be allowed to stay on line that long, and why weren't the containment vessels walls MUCH thicker?.

These plants do not come close to US specs for construction.

Anyone heard why Immelts(GE) cheap  shit was allowed to be used.

Last place you want to to save a YEN, is on four reactors.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 18:59 | 1130612 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Newest proposal, to save costs, is a halloween costume.

"Let's drape a sheet over it."

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/82921.html

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:44 | 1131146 davepowers
davepowers's picture

it's like the commercial, where baldwin says 'it's ok, I've played a pilot before"

i'm guessing there was lots of 'i'm playing a nuclear plant operator' going on these last few... ah... well, a long time

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:05 | 1131201 trav7777
trav7777's picture

huh?  Aristarchan had disclosed that the NRC advised TEPCO to upgrade these reactors at least with hardened H2 venting systems as is mandatory here.  They refused.

How many other NRC advisories did they rebuff?  Maybe their arrogance is fatal.  It wasn't GE's fault that they had no plan for a systemic power outage.  They appear to have sat on their asses for nearly a day watching their reactor buildings get ready to blow up.  And when one blew, did they take any emergency remedial measures to stop the others?

They needed only a relatively meager DC power supply to keep this shit all running and as a POWER company, how the fuck could they not have been able to provide this within a 12 hour window?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:23 | 1130444 Herman Strandsc...
Herman Strandschnecke's picture

Well, I suggested cat litter and pot noodle yesterday and got junked. And rememember it was me who suggested to tapco that they should use a oil tanker with clean water!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:27 | 1130452 flattrader
flattrader's picture

This is beyond stupid.  Little wonder Operation Diaper Plug failed

http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/04/fukushima-i-nuke-plant-more-on.html

Forget lengthy, polite nationalization.  Kan needs to declare a national emergency and seize control of TEPCO.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 18:43 | 1130582 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

20 bails of straw that will stop any leak.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 08:48 | 1131809 Huskybritches
Huskybritches's picture

I love how everyone becomes an armchair nuclear expert when they're thousands of miles away from the problem.  If you're so versed on how to handle this problem, then why aren't you over there helping? 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:20 | 1130170 SparkyvonBellagio
SparkyvonBellagio's picture

Can't they nuke the site w/ a different type of nuke?

And counteract the radiation nightmare scenario?

 

Thanks, I know I've read this somewhere. 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:28 | 1130184 Boop
Boop's picture

Maybe you dreamed it.

 

Exploding a nuke there would just add more radioactivity and spread it further afield, not to mention the desctructiveness of the bomb itself.

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:01 | 1130378 unky
unky's picture

i suggest this a few days ago too,  make a hole so big that the sea will go one more mile into the land, and the problem should be finished.

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:23 | 1130448 Reptil
Reptil's picture

*sigh* no it wouldn't. you (and everybody) would like the heavy plutionium and uranium to remain where they are. roughly in and around the plant, not in the upper atmosphere. which would result in an extinction event, making the planet unhabitable for many many years, except for organisms that can withstand such a harmful environment, like cockroaches, some invertrebrate, and Keith Richards.

shooting DU around the place all the time also doesn't help long term survival chances for mammals like us. eventually it all ends up on our (privileged) plates as well, as would be clear from the fallout detected going in the UK (and other places, but that surfaced in the MSM), during  Operation Desert Storm. More and more the actions of the western elite start to resemble some kind of incredibly shortsighted or suicidal plan. Whatever their ideas, they're certainly not very smart.

Bearish on this one.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 19:18 | 1130661 malikai
malikai's picture

It wouldn't be an extinction event. But it would absolutely suck very bad.

A few dozen cobalt bombs popped at 20,000ft maybe, but certainly not this.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 20:59 | 1130898 sharkbait
sharkbait's picture

I think you mean Keith Olberman.  Low form of intelligent life.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:01 | 1129973 Hammer Time
Hammer Time's picture

putzmeister bitches

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:00 | 1129976 e_u_r_o
e_u_r_o's picture

haha, nice image URL

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/bernanke/Concrete%20Pump.jpg

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:02 | 1129977 Dejean Splicer
Dejean Splicer's picture

Does anyone know how the entombment will play out? Time scale...

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:16 | 1130017 cossack55
cossack55's picture

If memory serves, the Putz's pump 210 yards/hr. A math whizz can figure the ID of the buildings. A little multiplication and....Voila!  Doomsday. 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:27 | 1130044 win
win's picture

For the best estimates of how this plays out time wise . . .

Refer to the great pyramid at giza which is estimated at approximately 6000 years

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:42 | 1130081 Kimo
Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:09 | 1130259 patb
patb's picture

Go Full out russian.  Get a million men line them up with shovels and have them go racing in grab a shovel full of radioactive material throw it into buckets,  have a million men grab the buckets and race them out for five minutes. to another man.

Think of it as a giant radioactive relay race.

 

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:25 | 1130300 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

They should enlist the assistance of the Chinese in that endeavor.  I hear the Chinese have a few million folks standing around not doing anything.  They could even make their own human bridge to Japan, sorta like ants do across a stream.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:32 | 1130320 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

Interesting point. At Chernobyl the Soviets could order tens of thousands to their deaths with impunity.

Japan not so much. This thought bothers me lately.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:52 | 1130357 SaulA
SaulA's picture

Yes,

 

There is nothing quite like ordering men to their deaths.  That the Japanese can no longer do it is bothersome indeed.  I like your thinking.  We could use you in government.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:54 | 1130368 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

Please don't misunderstand. What I was trying to point out is that the Chernobyl example might not be fitting here since it was, in fact, accomplished by sacrificing the lives of approx. 40k people.

The reason that thought bothers me so much is that it gives rise to the question: How? How in the fuck are they going to do this thing without killing tens of thousands?

I see how you could get the wrong impression though. No worries.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:20 | 1130439 j0nx
j0nx's picture

They aren't and they know it and so does everyone else. Anyone that doesn't believe that is full of shit. The Russians knew what they had to do and they manned the fuck up and did it. The Japs, not so much.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:50 | 1130464 flattrader
flattrader's picture

I don't see any other options myself.  Thousands of people will die regardless of the whatever half-assed remediation option they choose.

The difference is that back in 1986 the Soviets could do what they had to do in secret rather than in front of a 24/7 cable news cycle.

Few realize that in 1957 there was a horrific nuclear weapons facility accident in Russia that even to this day is not well documented.

http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2004/Karabolka-Nuclear-Disaster23apr04.htm

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 18:01 | 1130514 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

The Japanese are not going to do squat.  Instead we are all going to dodge radiation for years.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 18:52 | 1130598 Confuchius
Confuchius's picture

While what you say is in no doubt, it will come back to bite them in the ass. If there's anyone alive in japan by then.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:35 | 1130327 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1,300,000,000

China also has something on the order of a 100,000,000 mismatch of males (more males) to females in the 25 - 45 year old range.  Something like that.

100,000,000 men will not get wives...

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:20 | 1130437 bushboy
bushboy's picture

Go long any Chinese  sex related companies ?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:09 | 1131215 trav7777
trav7777's picture

colonize Africa, improve gene pool

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:49 | 1130354 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I understand the US has a few million folks standing around not doing anything also.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 18:01 | 1130518 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

They're armed and increasing they are in no mood to sacrifice.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 19:06 | 1130637 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Preparation has been in the works for REAL Americans now for sometime.

Read the 18yr LE Professionals experiences, if you have not already.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2011/03/beware_of_homeland_security_tr.html

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:42 | 1129988 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Yaz, yaz, well Tyler, there's only four, or six, or ten meltdowns...  At this point, I don't think I want to know.

Great work as usual.  Even more impressive because the MSM has not a clue on what's happening or the scale of the problems.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:06 | 1129990 The Answer Is 42
The Answer Is 42's picture

Patience, bitchez. On a long enough time line, even the fission fuel in stars run out.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:54 | 1130113 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Wouldn't that be considered "fusion fuel"?

"It is assumed that the Sun's position on the primary sequence puts it in the prime of life for a star, in that it has not yet exhausted its store of hydrogen for nuclear fusion."

http://the-solar-system.info/sun

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:04 | 1131046 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

The Sun is a cold, dark place. Ponder that and a lot of things begin to get very clear.

;-)

ORI

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:06 | 1129992 Korg
Korg's picture

This is gonna be like building another Hoover Dam

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:19 | 1130026 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

Hoover dam exceeds the amount of materials used to construct the Great Pyramid at Giza. There is no mechanism available to compare the Giza Pyramids to the Federal Reserves Pyramid of Debt.

Hoover Dam - Damn Insightful:

http://www.usbr.gov/lc/hooverdam/History/essays/concrete.html

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:38 | 1130076 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

Yes, and remember that concrete generates its own heat as it cures. When you pour a wad of concrete this big, you have to run coolant tubes throughout the mix, otherwise the self-generated heat weakens the pour, and it takes forever to cool and cure. It is estimated that without its 582 miles of coolant tubes, the Hoover dam would have taken 100 years to harden---then it would have cracked immediately.

I don't know how much concrete they're thinking of using in Fukushima, but the Hoover Dam took 3.3 million yards, plus another million for the power plant. And the pour has to be monolithic: once you start pouring, you can't stop till you're done. The first step at Hoover was to build two batching plants on site, then bring in the raw materials in train cars. Add water and stir, one crane bucket of concrete poured every 78 seconds, day and night, for several years.

Given the levels of radioactivity at Fukushima, I don't know where the Japanese could put a batching plant, or, alternatively, how they could deliver mixed concrete to the site.

http://www.concretecontractor.com/concrete-construction-projects/hoover-...

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:08 | 1130150 dhengineer
dhengineer's picture

Also, you can't pump heavy concrete into a relatively flimsey form such as the outer containment building.  The wall panels would blow out long before you got anywhere near the reactor level due to the hydraulic pressure of uncured concrete.  As you pointed out, they will need several batching plants and a round-the-clock operation to supply enough concrete to do the job, and that means lots of people put into harms way.  Civilians always think concrete just magically appears and gets slopped into the forms sort of haphazardly.  They would need mountains of cement, aggregate, and potable water (sea water and cement don't get along; the resultant concrete would quickly corrode any ferrous embedments or iron-based admixtures as are used for heavy-weight concrete).  This is a major engineering project that may not be truly finished in our lifetimes.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:12 | 1130162 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

financial engineers are not bother by so many restraints..  you really need to lobby nature into a less restrictive environment

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:22 | 1130289 Highrev
Highrev's picture

This is a major engineering project that may not be truly finished in our lifetimes.

And when you keep in mind that they haven't even set up a staging area for what they're presently doing I think we can safely say an engineering project "that might be beyond their capabilities".

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:29 | 1130303 Cruel Aid
Cruel Aid's picture

All true, I've seen seemingly good walls blow out.

I don't see how they can encase the core and make it work without forms, steel reinforcement, and lots of time.

This is a project from hell and many people will get very sick and die.

Immelt is surely working on a plant that is foolproof.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:41 | 1130336 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

Remember that Sarcaphogi are outer shells only - not a monolithic block.

Anyone who wants to know how Chernobyl went down, and also gain a pretty good understanding of what Entombment really means, needs to watch "The Battle of Chernobyl". Very sobering. Fantastic documentary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiCXb1Nhd1o

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:38 | 1130478 Confuchius
Confuchius's picture

A Freudian slip?  "- - - in our lifetimes - - -"

Might not be long at all...

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:11 | 1130159 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

were you fired by BP for saying such nonsense?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:07 | 1129995 Printfaster
Printfaster's picture

Putzmeister water pump.  Fire departments should get them instead of those ladder trucks that all firemen dream of.    Tall bugger.  70 meters!  Somewhere close to 20 stories.  Their concrete pumps are impressive.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:53 | 1130231 zhandax
zhandax's picture

World's biggest Putzmeister already being prepped for the flight to Japan.  One of Savanah River's contractors donated it. http://chronicle.augusta.com/latest-news/2011-03-31/srs-concrete-pump-he...

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:09 | 1129999 rogerjarema
rogerjarema's picture

And the supposedly absorbent resin failed, too:

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/82882.html

 

An interview with Dr. Michio Kaku -- a bit dated though:

http://naturalnews.tv/v.asp?v=604AB3FA803FF3647DF6E34EC5E8C8A0

Is he being too sensational? Or...

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:08 | 1130154 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

From the Kyoto News article Roger posted--The pit photos that go along with the story are a must see too. Absolutely stunning incompetence!

"Engineers put 8 kilograms of the polymeric water absorbent together with 60 kilograms of sawdust (MY NOTE: I put this much sawdust in my horse's stall every week & it doesn't even absorb all his pee.) and three bags of shredded newspaper into pipes leading to a pit connected to the No. 2 reactor building where a 20-centimeter crack has been found to be leaking radioactive water into the Pacific Ocean, the agency said.

However, those materials injected at a point 23 meters away from the seaside pit have not been sucked into the water flow, leaving no impact on the rate of leakage..."

And since the saw dust failed "The utility known as TEPCO deployed the absorbent called ''water gel bag,'' which contains polymeric materials used for diapers, as its efforts to encase the pit's fracture in concrete failed on Saturday."

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 18:41 | 1130580 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

If you want to block a drain real quick drop straw in the water , hell it will even block a hole in the bottom of a bucket , the more water pressure the better it works.Go long straw

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 18:55 | 1130588 tom a taxpayer
tom a taxpayer's picture

That same photo (kyodonews) shows a crack extending across a concrete slab to the pit with the crack. It appears the crack in the pit is part of a longer crack from a significant failure of the structure or the foundation (soil and/or bedrock) beneath the structure.

This photo is a better view of the long crack.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0402/Japan-nuclear-update-Repairing-cr...

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:12 | 1130002 FLUSA.com
FLUSA.com's picture

Japan built a series of reactors on a falut line

Got hit with an earthquake with a level of 9

The workers like lemmings plodding away

Two of them died just the other day

 

The tsunami came with a routhless abandon

Two horrible evens...a shame and in tandom

Bartender Please...a drink...shaken and stirred

This will be the worst nuclear disaster ever heard

 

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:12 | 1130004 prophet
prophet's picture

caught his quote from earlier today

“I don’t know if we can ever enter the No. 3 reactor building again,” Hikaru Kuroda, the company’s chief of nuclear facility management, said at a press conference.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:18 | 1130020 knukles
knukles's picture

I don't know either.
Chu know, Steve?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:23 | 1130034 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

 

Thanks for all your great posts, prophet.

Here's another quote:

On March 21, Stanford University presented an invitation-only panel discussion on the Japanese crisis that featured Alan Hansen, an executive vice president of Areva NC, a unit of the company focused on the nuclear fuel cycle.

“Clearly,” he told the audience, “we’re witnessing one of the greatest disasters in modern time.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/science/03meltdown.html?pagewanted=2&_...

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:54 | 1130112 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

Entombment of reactor buildings buys them nothing. They are connected to the turbine buildings, which are in turn connected to the sea. It's all one gigantic radioactive kluge.

That's why I advocate drowning everything in a lagoon.

http://oilgeology.blogspot.com/2011/03/broken-piping-andor-vessel-rupture-has.html

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:35 | 1130199 flattrader
flattrader's picture

After reading the posts from the two concrete "guys" above, I believe your suggestion has merit.

[Diapers and sawdust didn't work, so what the hell, no?]

Post here in the comments section.  http://bigthink.com/blogs/dr-kakus-universe

Kaku may actually read the comments.  Worth a try.

He has a national and international media platform.  Somebody important who can affect this situation may actually hear him.

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:03 | 1130249 grok
grok's picture

heck, the airport was built on the ocean..

would such a seawall be water tight?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:19 | 1130288 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

When 9th Ward Nawlins levy failed it was plugged with a Corps of Engineers metal seawall. Personally, I'd rather hire the big Dutch dredging contractor Heerema.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:09 | 1130395 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

I've given a lot of thought to your idea since you first raised the possiblility.

What I can't really understand is how they move 4 half melted cores (one of them with pockets of ongoing criticality), and the remaining 2200 tons of spent fuel into the containment you have designed.

Also remember that the plutonium in this stuff has a half life in the millions of years. Who will tend this for all that time? This might be a moot case no matter what they do anyway, but at least with entombment it is not in the ocean.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:35 | 1130455 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

Maybe I didn't explain it clearly enough.

Step 1 is to build a seawall to contain runoff and close up the seawater cooling loop that runs under all four turbine halls. Good strong breakwater forms a six-acre lagoon. Water will evaporate. Radioactive particles won't.

Step 2 is to build a 20-ft tall dike along the west walls of all four reactor buildings, plus two flanks to the lagoon. Start serious water flooding to cool reactors. Smash the roof of #2 and airdrop boron, shredded tin, water. Keep it up until all four reactors are cool enough to entomb by pumping concrete from the top of the dike.

I think it's a good idea to bunker-bust the turbine halls, to aid runoff of radioactive liquids into lagoon. The main idea, however, is to use vast amounts of seawater to drown everything. Clean up the lagoon later by adding cement? Jello? cat litter?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:42 | 1130482 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

Yes, I did misunderstand. Sorry. Let me think on it further.

Question: have you followed up on suggestions from others to communicate this idea to a wider audience, perhaps even those at Aveya or Tepco?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:46 | 1130493 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

I'd rather have peer review first: yourself, Jim in MN, Ari, naval nuke guys

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 18:17 | 1130538 Selah
Selah's picture

 

Is a 20-ft tall dike high enough?

Who is going to build it? "Liquidators?

How long will it take to build, especially considering the on-going earthquakes?

Despite the monumental design and manufacturing process involved, you have the best idea yet.

 

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:51 | 1131311 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

 

The seawall could be done in two weeks. Push a dozen barges overloaded with cement, rocks and debris into position and scuttle them sideways. At the same time blast the outbuildings to rubble and start building a perimeter dike around the reactors by pushing rubble with bulldozers. Install big pumps to move seawater. Doesn't matter how tall the dike is -- start flooding the reactors, blast the roof off #2 and air drop boron. When the dike is 20 ft high and the lagoon is more or less secure, Tomahawk the turbine halls. The key to making this work is an enormous water flood, as in multiple acrefeet per hour, pumped from the sea to the reactors and partly aimed to hit the SFPs. Ideally everything should be wrecked, pulverized, washed toward the lagoon and cool enough to start pumping concrete from the dike.

I know it's nuts. I don't see any other way to gain control.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:24 | 1131257 trav7777
trav7777's picture

what's the point of the tin and boron?

they seem to be coffin cornered here- they can't cool without irradiating the site beyond ability to work, and they can't stop cooling without risking further meltdown.

This is NOT chernobyl...there is no burning open pit in which to dump anything.  They have melted rods and piles of pellets probably in contained locations and uncontained ones.  If they have leaks in SFPs or reactors, additional cooling causes additional contamination.  Stopping cooling causes additional contamination (more meltdown and potential fire).

They have to plug leaks...the site can't be worked on until radiation levels decline as a result of not continuing to pump water through nuclear rods which then leaks out onto the floor.

Washing it all into the ocean may be the end-state though...

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 09:18 | 1131933 malikai
malikai's picture

Washing it all into the ocean may be the end-state though...

Maybe they'll pop a w-87 underneath the site. The subsistence crater would turn it into a beautiful glowing blue lagoon. Would make it into one hell of a tourist spot - it would be the only place in central Japan with warm glowing waters. But dealing with criticality would probably be problematic.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:33 | 1130172 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

@ MB, well and simply put. 

 

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:23 | 1130443 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

Thank you, Mr. Farmer. That guy works for the nuclear industry and is basing his judgment on real data from Fukushima.

Makes our pro-nuke trolls looks silly, imo.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:35 | 1130203 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I, personally am giving up on imagining good ways to ameliorate Fuk, especially since the men who are in charge of the situation appear to have chosen a course of genocide by inaction.

I've decided instead to expend my last reserves of worry on the fact that there are spent fuel ponds all over the United States, where I sit.

What happens to those ponds in case of something like, oh, say ... A Carrington Event ?

 

Fed delenda est.

( except maybe they delendad us! )

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:30 | 1130307 flattrader
flattrader's picture

Read the wikipedia entry on the Diablo Canyon Plant.

It will scare the crap out of ya.

Faultlines on and off shore...suseptible to tsunami from immediate off shore faultline and the larger Cascadian subduction zone...botched-up remidiation.

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:11 | 1130008 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

This could take a while...............

Its like draining the ocean with a teaspoon.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:15 | 1130011 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Did Ashmore arrive? Don't see the rig in photo.

SRS pump will head to Japan

http://chronicle.augusta.com/latest-news/2011-03-31/srs-concrete-pump-heading-japan-nuclear-site

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:17 | 1130022 prophet
prophet's picture

A German made pump truck in the US being flown by a Russian plane to Japan.

How fitting.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:31 | 1130056 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture


 Antonov AN 225

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otEC-lHkHkU

The comedy hour is growing stronger by the day.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:49 | 1130102 whoopsing
whoopsing's picture

Not to mention the irony of it being used to build a Mox plant in the U.S.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:50 | 1130105 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

And I notice that the giant Putzmeister is being pulled off another nuclear project, one that one day will be making MOX fuel! Also, Fukushima will be the last job for this pump. It will be too radioactive to be used later anywhere else.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:15 | 1130015 CheapKUNGFU
CheapKUNGFU's picture

TEPCO put a diaper on the leak... s'all good

All your TEPCO's are belong to us, make your time!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:18 | 1130018 InfinityZero
InfinityZero's picture

Will be possible to cool down the reactor with sand-boron-concrete ? And even if they could entomb the entire site and cool down the reactor, won't the radiation leak to the underground water?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:21 | 1130029 knukles
knukles's picture

CNN said they tried a combination of chemicals, newspaper and wood-chips.

And that it didn't work.

Is anybody serious, yet?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:27 | 1130045 CheapKUNGFU
CheapKUNGFU's picture

Chemicals, newspaper, and wood-chips... sound like my favorite BBQ grilling mix...

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:47 | 1130101 old naughty
old naughty's picture

CheapKF,

What's your favorite? I mean whats on your grill. It can't be... sushi.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:33 | 1130064 akak
akak's picture

CNN said they tried a combination of chemicals, newspaper and wood-chips.

Just as I always suspected:  the obvious solution to a nuclear disaster is .... mulch!

 

(Like the managers of TEPCO, I am not a nuclear engineer ---- but I did stay at a Tokyo Holiday Inn last night.)

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:24 | 1130176 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

Mulch...LMAO!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:31 | 1130318 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Yeah!  Think of the size of the tomatoes you could grow there.  Like a foot in diameter frankenmaters.  Yummy.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:32 | 1131468 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

I can't even imagine how this is going to 'enhance' the seafood too, Rocky.  Shades of 3,000 Leagues Under the Sea.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:38 | 1130073 InfinityZero
InfinityZero's picture

Why sand-boron-concrete will not work ?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:52 | 1130109 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

I don't think people are ignoring your question.  We just don't know.

The nukes among us seem to think there is too much of the stuff (especially the spent rods) in unpredictable piles.  The concrete would not set due to the extra heat, and it would only create a bigger mess.  There will have to be some sorting through this shit first, hence the cranes and the fire trucks on the way.  Gawdhelpus. 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:56 | 1130125 InfinityZero
InfinityZero's picture

Thanks for the anwser, but boron can stop the reactor and cool it down. And seems reactor 3 will be the problem, a lot of people will die because they have to inject this boron into the reactor. But if this don't work. Ok it's time to freakout and evacuate japan, maybe korea and north china.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:03 | 1130143 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

I don't know to what extent they have tried that.  From the beginning, information has been inadequate.  The managers have often seemed panicked and ill informed.

The worst elements are pretty heavy.  Looks like central Japan has a real problem, especially with water supply.  Keep reading ZH and you will be as well informed as anyone.  Good luck.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 04:37 | 1131574 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

This is an intractable problem, a puzzle that can't be solved. All they are hoping is that you turn you attention to some other matter, maybe American Idol, or maybe the goings-on of Charlie Sheen...

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:21 | 1130032 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

Is that Ann Colter observing the operation while munching on fresh-caught Sushi and iced water?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:34 | 1130067 akak
akak's picture

Dont' be silly!  Everyone knows that the only foods Ann Coulter consumes are live mice and the freshly-drained blood of young virgins.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:07 | 1130149 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

I thought Ann bathed in the blood of freshly-drained virgins.

It might be a required regular treatment for a successful sexual reassignment surgery.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:20 | 1130164 akak
akak's picture

First she bathes in it, then she drinks!

It's really a win-win:  Ann not only ensures her health and her satanic immortality, but by being drained of their blood, their virginity and their very souls, her victims are now eminently qualified to enter the world of Washington corporate lobbying.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 09:36 | 1132035 Crumbles
Crumbles's picture

victims are now eminently qualified to enter the world of Washington corporate lobbying.

+1 (oz-Au)

Please, Tyler - enable a positive rating system as well as the negative system in place; might have several components, such as LMAO, SF - StronglyAffirm, and perhaps DGAS (don'tgiveashit) or WTFC - whothefuckcares.

akak gets a LMAOROTF as well as the SF ...

and so it goes 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 04:53 | 1131578 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

I junked you on GLBT grounds. I despise Coulter and her hated objects du jour, but trans-folk are among the strongest people I know, with the most integrity.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:51 | 1130111 old naughty
old naughty's picture

You mean freshly-caught sushi in boiling hotwater?

She will like that.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:27 | 1130050 Johnny Lawrence
Johnny Lawrence's picture

I haven't really read any news about radiation levels in Hawaii.  Anyone heard anything?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:50 | 1130103 Kimo
Kimo's picture

It arrives here after passing by CA and picked up by the westerly trades.  Timing is about the same as Chicago, probably similar strength.  Expect Obama to be spending more time in the southern hemisphere....

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:53 | 1130117 old naughty
old naughty's picture

Why? You mean the Jet Stream doesn't go there?

Oh, I get it, night out time. I mean light...oh, never mind.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:46 | 1130222 majia
majia's picture

http://www.fairewinds.com/ April 2, Sunday. Gunderson explains that reactor 1 of the Fukushima plant is very likely engaged in periodic criticality, exposing workers to dangerous but unmeasurable neutron radiation

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:07 | 1130256 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

That guy explains the most horrifying things in the manner of a kindly old grandfather. It makes me want to climb into his lap and cry myself to sleep. lol...

Great video. thanks.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:54 | 1130367 flattrader
flattrader's picture

Conservative projection of cancer rates going forward in Japan.

http://www.fairewinds.com/content/health-outcome-fukushima-catastrophe-i...

Skip to page 12 for summary.

They will be luck if this is the worse that happens...bearing in mind this crisis is far from over.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:27 | 1130450 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

An extra 200k cancers in the surrounding 200km over the next 10 years is conservative?

Yes, you are right I think. This thing holds terrible potentials of which almost nobody in the general public has any inkling as yet.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:45 | 1130084 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

It's pumping water, not concrete...

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:53 | 1130116 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

It was designed for concrete, and that's the eventual hope.  As Tyler points out, probably hopium.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:58 | 1130128 dhengineer
dhengineer's picture

Right.  A concrete pump has a huge hopper and is a double-action piston affair that is pretty hefty.  This pump is pretty small considering they are pumping to the top of the building.  And the only thing feeding it is a relatively small-diameter hose.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 05:39 | 1131592 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

If you look at the photo carefully you can see the water spraying over the reactor.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:47 | 1130092 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

I think this interview will put things into perspective for you. Wez Be Fuc%ed !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2AtUzaFLbs

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:04 | 1130389 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Serious question:

If Fat Man had a relatively small amount of Plutonium, does anyone know the weight?  According to the video there is the possiblility of roughly 500 pounds of the stuff to melt into a random, uncontrolled critical mass.  If conditions were ideal for a nuclear explosion, what would the magnatude be for 500 pounds of Plutonium?  How big a blast radius and how deep the hole?  Anyone out there that can calculate the fall out and effects?

 

Second:  Is there a method for home use to detect radiation in water?  Is there a method to remove it that can be done by families?

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:39 | 1131130 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Over the past few weeks, knowledgeable folks have posted about how difficult it is to build and explode a nuclear bomb.  The plutonium must be processed and shaped and triggered in certain ways, or nothing will happen.  The free-flowing plutonium in these power plants will not explode in the way a nuclear bomb will.  You might search this site on "nuclear bomb" and see if you can find a few of these posts.  Many contain links to more detailed explanations about the difficulty in making plutonium explode in a nuclear bomb.

Having said that, plutonium is quite deadly.  The concern here is not a nuclear-bomb-type explosion.  The concern is any explosion that would send plutonium particles into the atmosphere so they could be distributed by wind and rain.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:47 | 1130093 Sabibaby
Sabibaby's picture

Have they tried pissing on it? #2 might work as well or even better than concrete.

Piss off Fukushima or I'll #2 on you too!

 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:28 | 1130186 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

Could hardly be less effective than what the rocket scientists have tried, I guess.  Maybe they should try putting toilet water on it.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:10 | 1130262 Sabibaby
Sabibaby's picture

I'm thinking a "Dutch Oven" would work better than the junk-shot. It could be like a sarcophagus of shit rather than bull shit.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:48 | 1130097 ml8ml8
ml8ml8's picture

That piece has been there for at least 10 days to pump water. 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:46 | 1130099 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture
Japan buys giant pumps for Fukushima - World’s largest pumps will be flown to Japan on world’s largest jet, 1 April 2011, by Christopher Hinton (MarketWatch) http://www.marketwatch.com/story/japan-buys-giant-concrete-pumps-for-fukushima-2011-04-01
Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:54 | 1130119 sabra1
sabra1's picture

weren't those janet napolitanos breast pumps?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:59 | 1130131 old naughty
old naughty's picture

What's that mean? Aliens landed, saved Planet Earth?

I get it, cher-en-kov on Fox. But who are they?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:06 | 1130392 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

K-Mart special on Isle 1.  We need to sell this shit.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:38 | 1130475 Bill DeBurgh
Bill DeBurgh's picture

.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:01 | 1130132 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Looks like we have progressives in a meltdown mode. Hahahaha

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:02 | 1130141 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

Uh....isn't that the water pump that was shown before?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:02 | 1130142 whoopsing
whoopsing's picture

I wonder if they have tried using bentonite to plug the hole enough to eventually seal it with concrete.Bentonite is a type of clay slurry that is used to temporarily shore up piling hole's until concrete is poured.As far as the entombment,that's going to be a massive project,if they can even pull it off

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:14 | 1130166 dhengineer
dhengineer's picture

If the crack won't contain the concrete, the slurry would also flow out.  Slurry works great in contained areas, such as for slurry walls and piles, but not if the bottom of the hole has voids.  I was on a job once where the slurry contractor pumped triple the calculated volume only to find out that the slurry was slowly filling an unknown and abandoned sewer line directly below the slurry wall location.  It's probably a similar situation here, where the concrete is falling into some sort of void below the plant.  As if they needed any more complications...

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:02 | 1130243 whoopsing
whoopsing's picture

Engineer,I was wondering if it would clog the water flow enough to slow thing's down,thank's

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:36 | 1130202 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Whoopsing, you have a whoopsy. This event occurred on March 10, 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eIVp8EwG5Y

Please tell us how you plan to convert the peasants.

A non working Google link - Do you see the link? Global internet banking. Right. lol


  • Global Internet Banking


    ... you. Maurice Strong at root of Global Warming Scam ..... Rt Hon David Cameron MP speaking at the Conservative Middle East Council Annual Gala Dinner ...
    www.globalinternetbanking.com/ - Cached
  • Your Gala will never reach puberty. Good luck selling on the MSM backside. Adults reverting back to childhood dependency. Nice..

    Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:54 | 1130235 whoopsing
    whoopsing's picture

    Yes Atom,I am aware of the tsunami,as far as the rest of your post,not quite sure what you are getting at. 

    Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:05 | 1130355 Atomizer
    Atomizer's picture

    You will in time, Sheep were sold on Hopey & Change. Once The FED is ripped too shreds, you will be told about another banking solution. They have been hoping on your Federal Reserve dissatisfaction to move the agenda further.

    NWO is a socialist government/banking system. Remember, a sovereign country can re-coin its own currency.

    Edit: Bookmark this post cuz the sheeple will declare "we never saw the Basell III coming"

    http://www.bis.org/

    Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:39 | 1130328 Rula Lenska
    Rula Lenska's picture

    Whoopsing, you have a whoopsy.

    You also have comma-itis and a problem finding the space bar on your keyboard.

    Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:24 | 1130446 Atomizer
    Atomizer's picture

    Whoopsing, you have a whoopsy.

    You also have comma-itis and a problem finding the space bar on your keyboard

    What time should I call the bus to pick you up? Shall we make a sweep by the Post Office first, then finish at the grocery store?

    Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!