• Phoenix Capital Research
    09/02/2010 - 15:21
    Honestly, I cannot predict when Bernanke will unveil QE 2. All I can say is that it largely does not matter in the grand scheme of things. Yes, it will cause some short-term volatility. But ultimately QE 2 will simply be a catalyst that speeds up the processes that are already underway. Those processes are: 1) Systemic collapse 2) Destruction of fiat money 3) Massive loss of wealth
  • madhedgefundtrader
    09/01/2010 - 23:06
    The 3 1/2 point sell off in the futures for the 30 year Treasury bond (TBT), at the end of last week was the sharpest drop in 18 months. All it took to set was for Q2 GDP to come in at 1.6%, and for Ben Bernanke to remain silent about any plans to flood the markets with more liquidity. After yields bottomed in 1956, bonds suffered negative returns for 30 years! Here come the 18% mortgages. One more equity puke out in September could easily give us the real thing. (TBT), (TMV), (TIPS).

Racketeering 102: Fed's Lacker Threatens With Mutually Assured Destruction If Fed Audited

Tyler Durden's picture




It was a four short months ago that the Clearing House Association, in a court filing, threatened with untold destruction if the Fed was ordered to submit to an audit that would expose all their dirty laundry in the form of undervalued assets used as collateral by the Federal Reserve. We recall the direct threat used back then:

If the names of our member banks who borrow emergency funds are publicly disclosed, the likelihood that a borrowing bank's customers, counterparties and other market participants will draw a negative inference is great. Public speculation that a financial institution is experiencing liquidity shortfalls - which would be a natural inference from having tapped emergency funds - has caused bank customers to withdraw deposits, counterparties to make collateral calls and lenders to accelerate loan repayment or refuse to make new loans. When an institution's customers flee and its credit dries up the institution may suffer severe capital and liquidity strains leaving it in a weakened competitive position.

It is fitting that as attempts to expose the Fed's shady practices accelerate on all fronts, and include direct legal approaches as well as subpoena demands by various politicians, that a Fed President would once again come out today, and recap the good old Mutual Assured Destruction treatise that both Wall and Main Street have gotten used to since the beginning of the bailouts. Somehow financial M.A.D. makes an appearance every time the bankers demand something and have no other rational justifications. So why not just feed the stupid plebs something about the Apocalypse that is certain to transpire should the financial oligarchs not get their way. Today was no exception.

Enter Richmond Fed president Jeffrey Lacker. His words, from prepared tesimony to the Richmond Risk Management Association:

Some observers argue that the financial reform agenda should include changes in the role and governance of the Federal Reserve. One proposal would extend the GAO's authority to audit Fed operations to include monetary policy decisions. Other proposals would alter our governance structure by making Reserve Bank directors and/or presidents political appointees. I know it might sound self serving for a Fed insider to object to such changes, but I believe such moves would present very serious risks to the effectiveness of monetary policy and ultimately to economic growth and stability. Looking across time and across countries, there is abundant evidence that economic policy and macroeconomic performance are generally better when the central bank's monetary policy decisions are shielded from the political pressures of the moment. For an illustrative case, one need only look to the 1970s in the U.S., when political influence led to high and volatile inflation that disrupted economic growth. The governance of the Federal Reserve System balances accountability, with ultimate authority resting in Washington, and independence, with the participation of non-political leaders from throughout the country. While the performance of our economy in the last two years has clearly been unsatisfactory, and policy mistakes may have contributed to our problems, the Fed's balanced, hybrid governance structure has, I believe, given us a good record over the better part of three decades. Disrupting that balance would pose another long term challenge for our economy.

While Mr. Lacker's testimony is indeed self-serving, it is also patently flawed. There is nothing in the proposed Fed Transparency law that would imperil the Fed with direct political intervention, and nothing that would impact its monetary policy decision-making appartus. Perhaps it is about time someone highlighted the actual truth behind the various Ron Paul et al proposals, which seek not contemporaneous information of decision-making to the GAO or otherwise, but a delayed, 6 month-lagged disclosure. How this impairs monetary policy independence is incomprehensible.

Furthermore, the claim that the Fed's "balanced, hybrid governance structure has given us a good record over the better part of three decades" is very much subject to a recount. If Mr. Lacker deems that Fed's actions over the past three decades, which culminated with the implosion of the biggest credit and housing bubbles this country has ever seen, courtesy of self-serving (that phrase again) monetary flaws, are indicative of a "good record" then we certainly agree. We also would recommend that the Fed president immediately seek a medical prescription for Geodon or, if that particular medicine will not be covered by the soon enacted "new and improved" nationalized healthcare system, any other over-the-counter antipsychotic medication that is freely available.

The biggest problem with the Fed is its continuous insistence that the kleptocratic oligarchy always knows not only what is in everyone's best interest, but is so much smarter than all, that stupid peasants getting advance knowledge of just how impaired the major TBTF institutions are, would immediately risk bank runs. Once again, it never dawns upon these enlightened gentlemen, that such rumor-based "bank runs" are merely a byproduct of never having the sufficient information to make informed decisions about these very companies in real time. And when the shit does hit the fan (as it always eventually does under the Fed's "aegis") the outpouring of panic is enough to bring the system down in a matter of hours as September 18, 2008 demonstrated.

Yet if American citizens are not allowed to get a glimpse into the true state of the banking system, which consists of publicly traded institutions for the most part, but also are the recipients of trillions of dollars of direct taxpayer cash and guarantees, then there never will be a right time to attain such information.

It is, and has always been, in everyone's best interest to have as much information about each and every financial institution, be it small regional banks, TBTF failures such as Citi, Fixed Income monopolists, or the nexus of all: the Federal Reserve. And until such information is freely available to all, not just provided to SIGTARPs and other investigatory queries, which all operate underneath the radar of full disclosure, the system will continue to be on edge, and constantly ready to collapse at a minute's notice, the second it becomes clear that the Fed, contrary to its desires, is unable to conduct the first ever successful experiment involving a planned and controlled economy.

5
Your rating: None Average: 5 (32 votes)



by deadhead
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:18
#195198

The Fed guys are simply whacky.

An audit has nothing to do with monetary policy and alleged "independence".  In fact, the Fed is not independent of the Congress (and Executive Branch) because they basically tell Congress what to do vs the other way around.

This is the same strategy that young kids have tried over the years: "i hold my breath til I die".  

Go ahead, kid, hold your breath. 

by faustian bargain
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:22
#195202

The 'independence' they seek is independence from responsibility and accountability.

by Cistercian
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:53
#195460

 They want/demand licence to continue to loot and rob the people.

 Since their actions amount to the apocalypse in slow motion anyway I say we audit them.And withdraw all deposits from the scum they "helped".

 Their evil reign of terror MUST BE STOPPED!!!!!

by Assetman
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 01:23
#195723

+1

by MarketTruth
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 09:15
#195802

Precisely.

And BTW, the Fed's balance sheet looks worse than a broken hedge fund. Is this something you want to be invested in (per se?)

Wake up Neo.....

BANK RUN BITCHES!!!

BANK RUN BITCHES!!!

BANK RUN BITCHES!!!

And buy gold/silver.

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 09:13
#195812

EXACTLY.

Why does that MAD statement BY ITSELF not result in bank runs? I don't get it. I only keep enough $ in my large-bank account to cover my monthly bills (because my local credit union doesn't have online bill paying and I'm not going back to using stamps. Yet).

by Ned Zeppelin
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 15:11
#196028

Bravo!

by Cursive
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:25
#195212

@dh

Exactly.  We know the banksters are trying, either purposefully or inadvertently through greed, to take this economy down anyway, so why not threaten us?  Most people don't have the will to make self-centered brats show their hand.

by Dr. Richard Head
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:19
#195306

This economy will go down either way, whether or not they are trying to do so or are doing so by ignorance.  A system dependent upon debt will require continual debt increases to just survive.  This is the nature of fiat.  Call their bluff and stick it in their arse with strategic defaults. 

Hell, JP Morgan is the first to announce their bonus pool of $9.3B for investment bankers ahead of CITI, BofA, and others soon to follow.  How much did JP get during TARP and TALF?  $25B? 

When will the American people turn into Iceland revolutionaries?  Will there be that tipping point?  I am about to tell JP Morgan that can take their $4,360 and stick it in their ears.  0.0% revolving credit isn't good enough for me.  Where is my negative interest rate?  Where is my tax-funded bonus for 09?  F' these ad hoc pirates.

 

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:21
#195386

JPM did not want the $25 billion. And paid it back as soon as they were "allowed" to -- with interest plus $1+ billion of value on JPM warrants.

So for this, after paying back all government funding and then some, they are suppose to ask the government how much is ok to pay their people?? Let the shareholders decide, not government.

If you don't want the government providing capital to the banks or you think the terms of the capital provided were inappropriate, direct your wrath at government (who was calling all the shots). Voting out your elected representative(s) in November would be one logical way to directly register your discontent that would catch government's attention. If you think government is too influenced by the persuasiveness of banks, again, this November will provide you a great opportunity to change that.

If you just want to complain, leave the people running government in place. If you are a JPM shareholder, you can also vote your proxy accordingly in a couple of months.

by mnevins2
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:55
#195418

"If you just want to complain, leave the people running government in place. If you are a JPM shareholder, you can also vote your proxy accordingly in a couple of months."

Translated: "leave us alone with the billions that we are now earning - due to the backstopping of our financial schemes and loose monetary policy!

We EARNED this money by working real, real hard to make lots of money for ourselves. So what if our efforts are destroying society, that the national deficit is around $2T and unemployment is around 17% - we EARNED this money and so STFU!!!

Now, peasant, pass the grey poupon!!!

Hungry? Out of bread? Well, there's always cake for you!!!"

Sorry, but society doesn't think that you guys "EARNED" anything and your waving at windmills with your smarmimess only makes "society" madder. The sooner you figure that out, the better off ALL OF US will be.

 

 

 

 

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 21:01
#195585

1. Tell the government you love to STOP "backstopping" and the "loose monetary policy" you are upset about. These are government actions, not JPM actions. Under your logic, if the government stops the backstopping /loose monetary policy, then JPM will not make much money and pay will go down. Fine, tell the government to STOP.

2. $2 trillion deficit is a government action. Tell them to STOP spending and printing money. JPM can not make them stop (JPM couldn't even stop them from forcing money on them).

3. In the 1980s I thought we defeated the form of government that was big on setting pay rates. You seem to crave that ideology and want to have "society" (whoever that is) determine what is "earned." You know there is an active Socialist Workers Party looking for new recruits all the time - check it out. You will feel at home there.

by Marley
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 22:58
#195663

Are you back with that Socialist thingy?

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 23:55
#195697

It does seem reasonably akin to the principles being espoused.

by Marley
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 18:07
#196137

 

Fascism is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism with a corporatist economic system, and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional  left-right political spectrum. - wiki

Currently espousing traditional democratic traditions with respect to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, is met with populous rhetoric to be called  "socialist."

 

I just say tax the rich and you go appy.

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 19:01
#196164

The bottom 50% of the population pay virtually no (ok 3%)of income taxes and you want to crank them up on the top. Wow.

The politics of have drifted decidedly left the past 20 years (since Reagan). I would prefer the government the country started with. A republic (not democracy) of fifty states loosely united with a federal governement that had narrow, specific ("enumerated") rights. Sadly, now Wash DC has invaded innumerable nooks and crannies of everyone's life. The states just hope they can survive the burdens of the federal government.

I fully support letting citizens individually pursue life, liberty and pursuit of happiness (one reason I do not like the healthcare bill). One's pursuit of happiness may result in shear misery -- but I think we need to protect the right to succeed (unlimited upside) and the right to fail (unlimited downside).

P.S. Wiki - a giant bathroom wall.

by Marley
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 15:23
#196734

I beleive we've played this game before, sources please on the tax burdens.  And clear this up please, are you saying that since Reagan, politics have become liberal?  And what impact did the Patriots Act have on everyone's life?

by KevinB
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 22:32
#196286

Currently espousing traditional democratic traditions with respect to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, is met with populous rhetoric to be called  "socialist."

Let's see now.. I work 50 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, that's 2500 hours, or about 30% of the entire year. Put another way, that's 30% of my life. You're suggesting that the government tax 50% of my income? That's 15% of my life put to work for government. That's your idea of my right to my "life"? 

The government wants to tell me I must purchase health insurance. That's your idea of liberty?

The government (especially in NYC) wants to tell me where I can smoke, what I can eat, etc. That's your idea of the pursuit of happiness?

Keep smoking that bud, dude. Looks like you enjoy it.

by Marley
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 15:33
#196745

I'll waste alittle more of my lunch time, I'm at work and yeah it's Sunday, responding to you.  Where did I suggest that the government tax 50% of your income?  I had to pay for my second child's birth out of pocket because the health insurance provider called it a prior existing condition.  I'm an ex-smoker, I know it's a bitch.

by Stevm30
on Mon, 01/18/2010 - 11:47
#197245

Fascism, as least as practiced by the NAZI's, is socialism...

There is no difference.

by estaog
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 02:24
#195731

LOL you best be trolling. We can tell them to stop doing things. We can even threaten to vote them out of office. But who are they going to listen to: average people or the guys dishing out billions in campaign contributions. Do you seriously think average people have any capacity to influence the US government's policy?

Have you heard of lobbyists before?

"From 1998-2008, Wall Street investment firms, commercial banks, hedge funds, real estate companies and insurance conglomerates made political contributions totalling $1.725 billion and spent another $3.4 billion on lobbyists -- a financial juggernaut aimed at undercutting federal regulation."

http://www.albionmonitor.com/0902a/copyright/wallstderegulation.html

by Francis Dollarhyde
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 10:29
#195846

Tell the government to stop, eh? Just like that? And they'll listen to us instead of the 7th largest contributor to Barack Obama's campaign? You're funny when you pretend JPM and the government are two different entities.

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 11:11
#195864

Attempt to exercise influence over the one you have the most control over - the government - which is the primary source of the problem (they do not HAVE TO listen to the lobbiest, but they do because they are weak people).

Government will not begin to change even at the margin unless you vote them out of office.

Alternatively, stop complaining if there is just nothing you can do about it.

by MsCreant
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 15:31
#196041

Why does the complaining bother you? This is a loaded question.

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 19:07
#196166

It is so unproductive and so easy to do. I think action is much better. We are a nation of whiners. Just trying to call people to action and focus on primary causes which one might be able to influence vs secondary causes and symptoms. Vote for a change in November.

by WaterWings
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 11:46
#196578

Vote for a change in November.

Uh yeah. That's what they told us last time. And the time before that. Voting is consent to be governed. Don't consent - let the disobedient inner-child reign - it is our Duty.

by milbank
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 20:04
#196892

The illusion almost all Americans have is that we have a choice, "a two party system."

You don't even get the chance to vote for anyone who is running for Federal office unless they have been vetted and chosen by the corporations/banks/"Powers That Be."  Despite all that has transpired over the last 20 years where both parties have controlled the White House and the Congress, Americans still can't wrap their brains around the idea that the "Two Party System" is a false choice.  Even if McCain won, do you think there would have been a different approach?  Obama was chosen to carry water for this term.  Do you Palin would have been chosen if McCain was supposed to win.  Remember, Palin wasn't McCain's choice, he was forced into it.  These guys running for President are merely stooges of those who actually run this country.   The difference in the parties regarding abortion and gay marriage etc. is great for the Powers That Be in that it gives the illusion that there are differences in the parties on something the PTB has no "skin in the game."  Where they do have "skin in the game," they own the game and the players they put out front for the electorate to vote for.  In terms of what really matters, it doesn't matter whether it's "ultra liberal" Barney Frank or "ultra conservative" Phil Gramm (former Senator who authored the bill that repealed Glass Steagall and now works for UBS), their owners and their goals are the same.

by Haywood Yablomi
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:21
#195437

Anonymous 195386 has no idea what they're talking about.  at 40X leverage, what percentage of underlying asset depreciation wipes out shareholder equity?  huh?  huh?  I'm waiting....

How many trillion dollars in notional derivatives does JPM have?  huh? huh?  what percentage can sour before shareholder equity is wiped out?  Still waiting...

JPM didn't want that $25B?  Maybe true, cause that becomes a fucking rounding error when you're talking about a cesspool that large. 

Your suggestion that bonuses should be determined by BOD or shareholders is laughable.  Yeah, how hard is it to manipulate the voting results (seen some interesting stats about total number of votes vs. total number of shares outstanding).

In fact, why don't you get a real job and PRODUCE SOMETHING asshole? 

by El Hosel
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 19:20
#195491

Haywood,

  Please explain if you will, I need help getting my arms around bank "earnings" reports.

 If JPM had mark to market all of their "assets "  what are we talking about as far as "earnings" ? How far above or below solvency is JPM and some of the other too bigs?

  Thanks

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 20:25
#195547

well said HY. And had I been a JPM shareholder before the crisis, I would be ecstatic at the way the BOD and the management of JPM swallowed bear Sterns and Wamu's franchises while enjoying the taxpayers largesse of unlimited backstop guarantee from the US government. And so they would arguably deserve $9b of bonuses. But they got the chance to make the profits only because they enjoyed unlimited backstop from the taxpayers, the $25b of TARP is "optical detail" compared to that backstop, which is still implicitly present by virtue of TBTF. And mind you, the freaking mountain of derivatives linked to interests bets on JPM's books, well, that mountain would have collapsed hard today if the Fed were not buying MBS and UST. And who would pay for the losses on the MBS on the Fed's books? the US taxpayers!

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 21:33
#195594

Was just responding to Richard Head's (oh sorry, Dr. Richard Head) complaint how JPM received government capital (which they paid back ++) and now is making lots of money some of which is getting passed on to employees.

So you seem very concerned that JPM's shareholder equity could get wiped out. A noble concern for someone who is not a shareholder or customer of JPM. If you are worried about the government's current or potential future dealings with JPM, I would suggest a change in government personnel this November. The folks in government are inept.

Re: JPM's history of manipulating shareholder votes, I await your proof. Best I can tell, JPM shareholders are pretty happy folks, so I am not sure why JPM would feel the need for "manipulation." I think you just don't like many large public companies.

Fortunately, starting with nothing, I have been very blessed with a good job and making good investments, living well below my means for multiple decades while the majority of Americans of have lived well above their means (I frequently lived below THEIR means). I am sympathetic to those in need and to back that up by willing to bet that I pay more in taxes AND give more to charity (both of which on an absolute basis AND percentage of income) than anyone else on this post. So I do not view myself as the corrupt, self-centered type many of you think of about folks like me who think capitalism is a very good thing (even if it has some potential unpleasant side effects -- it just beats all other ideologies).

Truncating economic outcomes is a great way to chase capital and talent to some other place where it will not be truncated and better appreciated.

by jeff montanye
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 10:25
#195842

can you seriously call what has happened since the bear stearns' hedge funds went banko "capitalism"?  really?!  seems a lot more like fascism or socialism for the very rich to me.

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 11:16
#195868

Agreed - we have strayed mightly from capitalism. Time to go back.

by MsCreant
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 15:59
#196064

Anon, I have a screen name for you if you wanted to join us with an identity-- Cherry Picker.

Cherry Picker,

You did not address taxpayer backstopping keeping that Zombie alive. And any asset related to real estate is a total unknown right now in terms of what it is worth. JPM has none of those, right?

You can't address it because then you have to admit the company is technically insolvent (not that it is special in that regard). You want to blame the government exclusively. That's because corporations have no reponsibility for how they make their money, and who they hurt, right?

You cling to that story that "government forced them" pretty tight. JPM, poor underdog. Guess that is how you sleep at night. They had to take the money because the government was changing the rules regarding appropriate reserves. The TBTFs did not have enough reserves to meet the new requirements. I guess you could call that force. Someone else would call it tightening standards. Someone else would call that closing the barn door after the horses got out.

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 19:12
#196176

If you do not want the government to back stop -- tell the government to stop back stopping. Vote accordingly.

I guess you are saying you want the government to keep back stopping because you are fearful of the consequences if they stop.

Just pick one - I want them to back stop or I do not want them to back stop.

by MsCreant
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 00:28
#196350

I would like to see the anti-trust laws enforced and the corporations broken up. I want RICO brought to bear on all parties involved in the banking fraud that is our system. Did you know if you are an insolvent bank you are not supposed to accept deposits anymore? Examiners are supposed to shut them down? Failing to do this is punishable by law! You have me there, all that would be gov.

I think I am angry with the legislative branch, angry with the administration, etc. You know who I am angriest with, the most disappointed with? Our judicial branch, our cops, and our prosecutors. They need to put the fear of God into all these other characters and they won't. If we needed to clean house, that is where we would start. But so many of these officials are appointed.

Where have you gone Elliot Spitzer? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you...woo, woo, woo.

What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson, Jiltin' Spitzer has left and gone away
(Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)

_________________________________________

I have often wondered if, with the spying technology available, they can blackmail almost all of them? I particularly wondered this with Bush. Dad an ex-spook and all. Did not seem too farfetched. My husband is ex low level NSA. He rolls his eyes and says, "You can intercept anything."

Dear Anon, I ask you to consider the possibility that between the fact that politicians need campaign funding, that those with money have greater ability to lobby (even the clean kind) than those who don't, and this spying issue I brought up above, that it is possible that the government is genuinely captured, and the action that is needed is not voting.

For instance, in my state, there are NO PAPER BALLOTS. I complain everytime. The polling operaters tell me I am the only one who complains, everytime.

I don't trust the voting process.

I fear we are in a great deal of trouble.

I will continue to complain, talk, think, hope to God there is another option than the one I already know is necessary. When enough people reach the same conclusions I have, or if something happens politically that looks like it is really going to work, maybe change will happen. But moving alone is futile.

So I watch and wait, hope for the best, and plan for the worst. I think there are a growing number out here like me.

by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 07:14
#196427

MsCreant,

He's telling you the system is broken, proceed to the next election and use the broken system to fix the system or shut up, no alternative views or processes allowed except that which the machine affords the population.

Not only is that a Catch 22 but it's Catch 22 thinking, the ultimate F**k You by you. This assumes the process, the structure, can be "fixed" from within using the structures systems and process. The only way to get inside to fix it is to be corrupted or dependent upon the system, thus rendering yourself incapable if fixing the system even if you still wanted to. The ultimate human BORG mentality.

As you have been talking about for months, the system can not be fixed from within. Until the majority come to the same conclusion, until they realize that there is not "The One" that can be (allowed by the system to be) elected to fix the system and then actually fix it, we are in store for more of the same ole same old.

by WaterWings
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 16:44
#196786

Aaaaaaah, I have no words to describe the melting despair.

by Anonymous
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 14:25
#196701

I love that you brought this up. In keeping with the, "Could the banks be spying on politicians and using information that could discredit them to keep the heat off Wall St." theme:

Spitzer : Attempted to clean up Wall St., destroyed by a prostitution scandal.

Blagojevich: Arrested within 24 hours of announcing that the State of Illinois would no longer do business with Bank of American

Sanders: S.C. very vocal in opposition to the bail outs and categorically refused any federal aid for his state, ruined by a prostitution scandal.

Coincidence? Perhaps .....

by ghostfaceinvestah
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 19:17
#195486

Have they refinanced their TLGP debt with no-TLGP debt yet?

Didn't think so.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 21:35
#195597

Tell the government to STOP offering TLGP debt!!! This is will solve your reasonable concern. But this is not a JPM problem -- it is a government problem.

by Herd Redirectio...
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 18:47
#196159

Yes, because as soon as we tell them we will feel so much better,  and even if they don't listen,  hey atleast we tried, right?  What more could be expected from us?

Now, I understand some people sold their principles to the highest bidder a long time ago, but the rest of us retain some semblance of principles, and we know the Gov is corrupt and serving the Oligarchy.

Hence, complaining is just playing right into their hands, because by doing so we give credence to the quaint notion that it is those in government that are in control, and making the decisions!

by Waterfallsparkles
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 19:18
#195488

What about the 25 Billion subsidy to buy Bear Stearns for less than the value of their Office Building?

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 21:41
#195599

So it is JPM's fault the government GAVE JPM a subsidy to buy Bear Stearn's?? Absurd. JPM is not the problem in that transaction.

There is a theme here folks - government is inept.

by jeff montanye
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 10:29
#195847

the government may be inept but they are not the source of the decision:  they are following the instructions from the people who are profiting from the decision.  if you think the people who made sure aig's counterparties were paid off at 100% are the government's functionaries you are willfully deluded.

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 11:26
#195877

Government is the source of the problem. They do not have to choose to be influenced by the banks you dislike.

Replace the government personnel who so dutifully answer to the banks you dislike. At the end of the day, the government signed off of paying AIG counterparties. Even if they were unduly influenced in doing so, they did it. Replace those weak, inept government personnel. Make a big change in November 2010.

If you are saying no one in government can withstand the influence of the banks, then you / we are hopeless. But I would not waste time complaining then.

by MsCreant
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 16:02
#196067

Let's all be quiet about it then.

by Stevm30
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 19:19
#195490

Sorry, JPM DID take the money.  Why didn't Jamie Dimon walk out of that room with Paulson, Geithner, Bernanke, and Bush, saying: "not on my watch"?  Because he needed the money.  Or, because he was scared of the big, bad government, and is a coward.  Either way, he TOOK the money.  Now, I agree the Government shouldn't have been involved.  But nobody FORCES you to take money.  What would big bad Paulson have done if one or more of them said no?

We'll never know.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 21:49
#195612

Your are probably correct in suggesting JPM was afraid of the government if they did not take the money. The night the 6 or 7 big banks got called to Washington, it was made clear they were not leaving until everyone signed. Government can make one's life very difficult if they want to. The government convinced them that if the stronger banks did not take the money, it would create a potential run on the weaker banks who may have needed the money. It is called coercion.

by johnnyBoy
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 23:00
#195666

the NY Fed gave the money to Chase and Jamie Dimon was (is) on the board of the NY Fed.   Nice deal he must have negotiated, eh!

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 11:28
#195879

Someone in government put him on the NY Fed. Call your elected representative.

by greased up deaf guy
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 20:09
#196890

to the anonymous jpm apologist...

although it's easy to suggest the government is the cause of all the problems and the "don't hate the playa, hate the game" defense fits you (and jpm) like a glove, your "someone in government put him (jd) on the ny fed" statement is patently false. i suppose you don't mind a little fib when it sounds believable and supports your cause though, huh.

also, jpm spends millions on political donations and lobbyists in washington to block any potentially meaningful reform, but you not dare mention that. oh, right. that's the government's fault too, i suppose.

by dogbreath
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 22:31
#196964

Fuck You. We know who our government is and it ain't the elected Stooges.

by Thomas
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 20:53
#195575

I agree whole heartedly; let the shareholders decide. The problem I have is that the democratization of the markets has created such an amorphous shareholder base that there is no adult supervision. Fund managers no longer give a damn what a company does with its profits, and individual shareholders have not yet accrued collective power. I am at a loss about how to get shareholder activism. Martin Hutchinson over at the Prudent Bear home page wrote an article about shareholder activism. I am not optimistic in the near term.

 

Damn-I keep blowing those silly math problems. I guess degrees in biology and chemistry don't buy you arithmetic.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 22:39
#195646

Institutional holders of companies (who generally own 80% of shares) frequently hold the stock less than a year. So we are in essence a nation of traders, not investors or business owners. We have very short attention spans.

Hence you will not get a whole lot of direction from shareholders unless things are really of track at HQ.

It is not clear what shareholders want to be particulary active about. The whole compensation issue is a bit of a canard. You could cut executive pay by 70% and it won't move the EPS needle. I guess it will make those who make less feel better.

by David449420
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 22:02
#195619

195386 - Clearly spoken by a loyal employee of JPM.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 22:43
#195652

An empty reply without substance.

Sorry to disappoint. Not a JPM employee, shareholder or customer.

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 13:35
#195953

Folks around here like to attack people (rather than ideas, principles or rationale) because they are empty when it comes to intelligently expressing a thought on the topic at hand. Fairly common place in the US.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 23:28
#195689

Very well said.........the banks are the symptom....the MONGREL POLITICIANS ARE THE DISEASE

by Rick64
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 07:17
#195774

How did the Government force them to take it? Because they were leveraged way beyond their capital?They paid it back, but are their toxic assets still backed by the Government or Fed?

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 11:32
#195881

So the government backing of assets is the banks fault?? Absurd. Have the government stop backing them if you think that is a good idea. The banks don't get to make that call. It is a government problem.

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 18:12
#196142

I would say its a government problem when so many ex goldmanites control our government.

by Rick64
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 18:33
#196152

If they didn't they would be insolvent. If they are insolvent is that the banks fault ? Of course. If it was in my power I would stop it and let them fail.

by TheGoodDoctor
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 01:01
#196358

Hey Anonymous. That's only part of the story and you know it.

by nowhereman
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 02:13
#196380

Bullshit, JPM didn't want the money.  They paid it back simply because the Fed gives them unlimited money at 0% which they in turn lend to you at 5%, or 29% if you have their credit card.  The banks are solvent only because they don't have to mark to market their toxic waste.  Gimme a break, go troll elsewhere, you truly have nothing to offer.  

Yeah, the government has blown it mightily.  And all our elected officials are shills for the oligarchy.  What the banks have managed to do with the explicit aide of the Fed and treasury, is expose for all to see the nature of the corruption,  and they are all trying to pull the curtain back over our eyes.  They just want it to go away.  This fiend can't stand the light of day.  And asshats like you only serve to obfuscate.

by Anonymous
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 11:12
#196553

Then close the discount window, no more guarantees and stop QA.

by Kayman
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 17:00
#196804

Gawd Dang, I love it.

Head Office in New York is blaming the staff at the Washington Division for sending them some dang money, that they didn't need and didn't ask for.

Heck, next thing ya know, Head Office in New York will be rushing down to pay off all that dang unnecessary money sent to them by the Fed Division; the Fed Division boys, naturally, mistaking gold tin-foil on dog shit, for real gold bars.

Hey Anon #195386, thanks for clearing things up.

by Winston Smith 2009
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 20:31
#195556

"When will the American people turn into Iceland revolutionaries?"

Only _after_ they experience the same level of economic collapse as the Icelanders.  In the mean time, they'll sit passively on their sofas as they always have.

by johnnyBoy
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:21
#195309

Me thinks the Fed protests too much.

Question: If the Fed is ended what do we get in its' place?

by faustian bargain
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:08
#195370

If we're lucky, nothing.

by DaveyJones
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 19:13
#195480

less is more, more or less

by Missing_Link
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 19:50
#195517

Freedom, bitches.

by dark pools of soros
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 21:58
#195622

the Yuan

by ghostfaceinvestah
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:07
#195427

This has been the central banker's M.O. since the beginning of time.  the only thing that will break the Fed is a strong President.  If you haven't alreay, I encourage you to read the history of Andrew Jackson's fight against Biddle at the Second Bank Of The United States.  Biddle deliberately crashed the economy after Jackson pulled all government deposits out of the bank, and Jackson had a lot of pressure to back off, but he didn't.  They even tried to kill him, but amazingly the gun misfired.

Of course most revisionist history books will claim Jackson was ignorant and his moves hurt the country.  What is that saying about history books written by the victors?

Central bankers will take extreme measures to cement their tyranical control over the citizens.

 

by dark pools of soros
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 22:01
#195624

and thats why Britain forced another war to force jackson to go back in debt..  also the games britain's banks played with the interest rates to suck money out of america was also a an act of war

by aus_punter
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 04:39
#195756

"So why not just feed the stupid plebs "

and therein dear readers lies the root of the problem

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 11:43
#195888

Correct, an audit is a very simple process.

Simply count the money.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:18
#195199

lacker definitely lacks a lot of common sense, much like his fed board brethens

by Mongo
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:20
#195200

Well, criminals think like this.

 

"If somebody found out what we were doing.. "

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:27
#195218

Do you take a small child to look behind the scenes of how his/her happy meal is made.

Guess what the American public is on par with a child. Especially more recent displays of our character.

by Mongo
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:43
#195251

Well, at least kids need to know that meat doesn't grow on trees. Perhaps in 20 years after Monsanto perfected its schemes.

by mikla
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 09:28
#195814

Well, at least kids need to know that meat doesn't grow on trees.

I hear monkeys grow on trees, and while I've not tried them, I hear they are delicious.  ;-)

Perhaps in 20 years after Monsanto perfected its schemes.

Don't forget the four-legged, six-winged KFC chicken mutant in progress.  ;-)

by Marley
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:06
#195426

That's not meat their eating.  More like a congealed fat and blood substance.

by pros
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:21
#195201

The hypothesis that under present structure the Fed is shielded from political pressure is false.

 

The entire argument fails a basic logic test-it is based on a false premise.

 

 

by faustian bargain
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:23
#195205

No, under the present structure the Fed is political pressure. Auditing threatens to take that away.

by BoeingSpaceliner797
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:26
#195320

No, under the present structure the Fed is political pressure.

Well put.  MA Rothschild would be proud.

by Miles Kendig
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 04:20
#195692

yes indeed

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:27
#195389

Or - there is political pressure now and there will be political pressure if more transparency is required.

We just want to understand when the Fed is bowing to political pressure and when they aren't. What could be wrong about that?

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:24
#195209

Let's get some rope.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:33
#195396

This site really needs to get rid of these kinds of brilliant comments. Especially since the poster has no ability or real intent to do what they say they want to do. It is such a weak comment and shows them to be a fool.

Folks, try to say something intelligent on the issue.

by Missing_Link
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 19:58
#195523

No, this comment was most likely posted by Janet Napolitano personally in order to increase the quantity of vaguely threatening comments on ZH, so that she can order the media to smear this website and its denizens as "dangerous" and then use it to shut down Zero Hedge.

Best to delete such lunatic comments entirely.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 22:47
#195658

He should put up or shut up.

by jeff montanye
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 10:36
#195850

i agree.  one other thing that would help would be unique names.  keeping track of these legions of anonymous posters is far too confusing for my small brain.

by Anonymous
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 15:22
#196733

The beauty of making comments on ZH, or any other site, anonymously, is that one can take a consensus of the minds out there without prejudicing an individual. I can take my mind, and sift through other minds, this helps me think through, understand, and perceive the topic at hand.

Also, those that do not use their own name are motivated by fear of the consequences. I can't blame them, simply because the Government (Political Parties) have been known in the past to supp

r the masses.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:25
#195213

Must really, REALLY be BAD, what they try to hide :-O

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:25
#195215

There should be a firewall to protect undue influence from wall st firms, but that doesn't mean its in anyones interest to know how the sausage is made. As well as opening the door for an increase in political influence on the FED.

I hope most of us can agree that US political structure is shortsighted and disfunctional

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:57
#195282

Are you one of the people the Fed is paying to improve its image?

by Anonymous
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 21:21
#196928

In contrast to the Fed, which is neither shortsighted nor dysfunctional. You could add inept to the differences, as well.

by Ripped Chunk
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:26
#195216

Lacker should resign Monday if he knows what's good for himself.

by pros
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:31
#195222

Secrecy?

 

The AIG-GS CDS transactions were fraud ab initio, because AIG entered into a contract it could not execute (lacked "good faith" element), and GS knew it. In fact, even today those contracts are void as a fraudulent conveyence and can be placed in a constructive trust and the transactions reversed with losses put back onto GS and taken away from taxpayers.

 

The fraud could not have been consummated without the secrecy this guy wants to preserve.

 

 

by Anonymouse
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:49
#195270

Weren't many of these contracts written before the mortgage and CDO crisis hit?  Then they were not fraudulent. If any were written afterward, there might be an argument.

But there is nothing fundamentally wrong with CDS and CDOs.  They were overused, giving too much leverage, making credit too cheap, some deals were fraudulent, and risk management was poor in many cases.  But fundamentally, CDOs divide risk among those who (presumably) can bear it.  Credit Default Swaps can be a great hedging tool, but too many participants ignored the inherent leverage and the counterparty risk in the instruments.

Those that got burned should take their loss.  Those that committed fraud should be nailed.  But the instruments are no more fraudulent than alcohol is a killer.  The danger is in the misuse.

by pros
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:03
#195288

GS and AIG entered into these transactions at a time when the extent of the carnage was fairly obvious...it certainly fits the definition of fraudulent conveyance---void for lack of consideration. (if you pay $100 to a guy selling soda at a turnpike rest stop to insure your new benz you can't go to the NJ Ins. Comm. and collect when he defaults!!!)

 

The management of AIG, owned by the U.S., certainly can file a suit against former AIG management and GS for recovery of losses from the contracts and fraud damages.

 

There is no evidence that anyone from the U.S. government has taken any action to protect the taxpayers' interests. It seems they haven't even questioned Cassano at AIG!!!!---they just charged the taxpayers and transferred the billions to GS, no questions asked. Now the coverup and whitewash attempt proceeds apace.

 

 

 

 

by Rick64
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 07:24
#195776

How about the ratings AA,AAA was that fraudulent? The Rating agencies were working hand in hand with the institutions bundling this garbage. Did the agencies know? of course. Did the institutions bundling the garbage ? Of course.

by cdskiller
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 13:17
#195938

Oh, man, where to start? The assertion that, because a contract was written before the crisis hit, it therefore cannot be fraudulent is nonsensical.

Secondly, the ability to transfer the risk inherent in ALL mortgages, led to reckless lending and borrowing. Many mortgage providers are, in fact, facing charges of fraud for their practices. Banks wanted product, the riskier the better. The rating system that gave investment-grade AAA ratings to the reckless mortgages was corrupted by a conflict of interest-banks paid for the ratings. Fannie and Freddie and the banks then irresponsibly bundled the mortgages, mixing the good with the bad, applied ostensibly fraudulent risk models to assign price to the tranches and paid AGAIN to have the bundles rated. Tranches of the AAA bundles did not have to be rated if they were derived from AAA rated MBS sold by AAA rated companies. The synthetic collateralized debt obligations created using CDS contracts are fraudulent, deformed, deceptive Frankensteins of the highest order. And the complexity of the innovations has barely been examined. There were derivatives of derivatives of derivatives, with exotic options and side bets attached. Believe me. It got extremely gnarly and wild.

Ignoring leverage and counterparty risk pretty much defines the CDS fiasco at AIG. A loophole in the law allowed them to offer hundreds of billions in insurance without having to maintain capital reserves to pay off the contracts. Their leverage, in a sense, was unlimited. That is what we call systemic insurance fraud. The banks purchasing the CDS contracts knew that. They also knew no one was paying attention. Every single piece of this house had within it fraudulent behavior. That's why there is collusion between participants and the government to cover the whole mess up. The failure was too deep.

Risk management being poor, in this case, IS and should be fraudulent. If independant investigators were allowed to examine in detail the toxic assets created by this system, I guarantee you that securities fraud charges would result. That's why talk of nationalization was so terrifying to the banks. All hell would have broken loose in a very short time.

Nationalization of just one major bank that played in this game is the holy grail. Reform the credit rating system and it's game over. That's why neither of those things are happening.

The other holy grail is an audit of the Fed. They know that. They are threatening global apocalypse, because transparency is the real enemy. 

by Anonymous
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 12:06
#196600

It's not a matter of 'knowledge' of a fraud. In all states that I'm aware, statutes of fraud include not only criminal but civil fraud. A civil fraud is entering into a contract when there isn't any consideration given. Whether AIG knew it was creating a fraud or not, if was a fraud that AIG could have paid the claims it was assuming.

US Bankruptcy code defines various periods in which the Bankruptcy Court can reach back and recoup a 'fraudulent conveyance.' Placing AIG, FNMA, FRE in bankruptcy would allow the USBC to recoup for the taxpayer immense, unquestionable fraudulent conveyances; from banks, mortgage bankers, insurers....and homeowners alike.

Bankruptcy Court is a Zoo of competing claims in the simplest situations. Unraveling AIG would become chaos, but so was Lehman. But the point is, it was a fraud and it can be, theoretically, can be unraveled.

The chaos is going to occur that way or the way we're headed. Who knows which will be worse?

Jim

by Orly
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:26
#195317

I think that that is exactly what they are trying to hide.  If it came out that only certain people knew how bad it was- people including the Fed- then all those credit derivatives could be null and void or the put-back option could be executed against Goldman.

The meltdown would be instantaneous and most of these boys and girls would end up behind bars for fraud and racketeering.

RICO.

by buzzsaw99
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:03
#195424

RICO doesn't apply to the fed or GS, only to small criminals.

by WaterWings
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 20:01
#195527

Yup - the poor banksters are just clueless - they would never do anything wrong.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/opinion/15krugman.html?em

by mnevins2
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 20:50
#195573

Now I'm both scared and speechless - for the first time in my life....I support what Krugman has written.

I suppose that this provides some sort of a clue as to just how, hmm, upset (not strong enough?) that a lot of people are regarding the disastrous destruction by our financial super-genuises? For which, thank you very much, they earned BILLIONS!

Were they educated at the Alfred E. Neuman/Helen Keller Academy?

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 19:44
#196195

This system is rotten to the core. Although the heaps of liquidity, printing and propping have somewhat stabilized the equities and bonds, durables and real estate RRE&CRE are still plunging.

This is a pause in the plunge. There is no way to make whole all the debt, it can't be paid down, it can't be inflated away without the same effect as outright default.

The Fed WILL be audited. They are making the Armageddon scenario, because they know that in the fulness of time, it must be the Armageddon scenario.

The audit and eventual demise of the Fed is assured. But their work is done now anyhow. 100 years shy of 1913, and they have succeeded in snuffing the world economy.

The Fed will be the ultimate hedge fund whose insolvency brings it all down. We thought Lehman was bad? They just transferred enough private garbage to the Fed and public balance sheet, while the insiders traded out of paper into tangibles and PMs.

That process is nearly complete. The presidential palace is about to subside off its foundation.

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 23:25
#195688

RICO applies to whomever a federal prosecutor and judge says it does....

by Waterfallsparkles
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:58
#195464

I have read that the Credit Default Swaps in circulation are in excess of the Total World Economy.  That is Frightening.

by Crisismode
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 21:47
#195608

The total remaining amount on your home mortage is greater than your annual income.

 

Does that frighten you?

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 23:24
#195686

You post more than the sum total of the letters in  your name.. Does this make you smarter?

by Miyagi_san
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 09:58
#195830

money supply is dwarfed by CDS thats why the printing goes 24/7

by Madcow
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 10:33
#195849

Bingo. That's right Orly. 

Its leads to a massive 'defective + dangerous product recall.'  

There will be more than plenty of evidence to prove the banks, ratings agencies, and even the quant-jocks who built these products knew what was going to happen once interest rates hit the zero bound and the overall credit pie was no longer able to expand.

Call it intellectual dishonesty. Call it wishful thinking. Call it pure straight up criminal activity.  

But you're right - either its "RICO" - and decades and decades of lawsuits and congressional hearings - or its "In light of new facts, we've come to realize that fractional reserve banking, fiat currency, and the Federal Reserve itself is an untenable proposition."

Either way, it is game over for Wall Street.

 

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 11:46
#195894

Even if they "knew" the lack of quality in the securitizations, if they disclosed that risk in the prospectus, am betting they are covered. Anyone worth their salt makes sure the risk factor disclosure covers every potential bad thing that can happen.

And the retort can't be, "But no one reads or understands those risk factors / disclosures."

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:32
#195223

geezus christmas ! what are these people hiding on the balance sheet that they scream this hard at idea of Deloitte simply verifying the info that Fed gives us as to whats in portfolio ?

the man doth protest just a tad too hard ......

by junkyard dog
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:34
#195225

I believe the cat puke's biggest problem is that once we find out who really got the money that was not deserved and the legal implications of the distribution, several of his best buddies will shot themselves in the head.

 

by Hondo
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:39
#195226

Now for sure we need them audited.  There is corruption there and I'm not just talking about the bank bailouts.  We need to go over everthing with a fine tooth comb..........and when we're finished the people will want to close down this corrupt agency.  Beside the Fed gave up all pretense of independence when they bailed out AIG and AIG's counterparties.  When they didn't say NO but said yes sir and how much.......game over.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:34
#195227

OT a little - 145 billion in bonuses for their banker friends ? I am amazed at how many are so willing to accept this? You have Congress holding these hearings on how Wall Street caused the problem, then capitalized on the problem and everyone is just .... all discombobulated..... People missed that part about how Congress and the Fed gave away the store to these wall Street scum? The banks were given a free opportunity to take advantage of anything so they could make money. When the banks lost the bet, they go back to their buddies in Congress to get bailed out and forgiven and are given a free ride through zero interest rates and carry trading and the rest to billions in bonuses again despite not cleaning up the banks.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:43
#195410

So, based on that observation, the PRIMARY problem is that goverment is beyond stupid (at least compared to average folks on this site and bankers generally).

The immediate response is not "Why do the bankers make so much money?" but "We need to vote out our elected representatives (who are in charge of the goverment) in November." If you don't do that, you really have no interest in solving the primary problem and changing things.

by bokapita
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 06:45
#195769

"The immediate response is not "Why do the bankers make so much money?" but "We need to vote out our elected representatives (who are in charge of the goverment) in November." If you don't do that, you really have no interest in solving the primary problem and changing things."

This point is fallacious and self serving, because it relies on the premise that "it is justifiable and quite OK to do any dreadful corrupt unfair and damaging thing because  currently there is a government too supine and feeble to stop it, and until and unless you change this government for a better one you have no standing or justification for criticising the aforementioned behaviour".

Please explain why you consider this premise to be a justifiable way of proceding in human affairs?

by Anonymous
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 12:17
#195910

Because we are a nation of liberty and laws. And if one is obeying the law, they have the liberty to do what they want. It is why the US is great and free.

The "do the right thing" behavoir has always come not from government, but from our culture. Our culture has been on the slide for many decades to the point the majority of Americans are weak, lazy, greedy, whiny, non-thinking, entitled, victims of every ilk who have nearly no sense of personal responsibility (defined as behaving in a way that will not require someone else to ever take care of their poor personal decisions). This group has increasingly yielded their personal responsibility (and freedom) to the government to handle as they fled those "unenlightened / misguided" ways of our prior generations.

This is why the country is in trouble. And adding more corrupt, inept, power-hungry government is not the answer.

P.S. I do not think you really want "fair" (however that is defined) because it clearly is not fair that EVERYONE in the US lives so much better than the majority of the rest of the world. One (not me) might say that is not fair. But if you do, you have NO option but to sell your assets down to world average level (giving away the proceeds to those below the world average). Then things would be more fair. Lest you want to be a hypocrit - which I hope you don't.

by bokapita
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 14:24
#195992

Perhaps I misunderstood your stance, because it seems that you do believe "The 'do the right thing' behaviour has always come not from government, but from our culture." I was attempting to ask whether NOT doing the right thing was a justifiable way of conducting one's affairs just because it is not specifically prohibited by statute.

I completely agree that "And adding more corrupt, inept, power-hungry government is not the answer." But it seems to me that an attitude that seeks to excuse an individual from the exercise of personal judgement about the correctness of his or her conduct on the basis of (to paraphrase) "we have all become too lazy, venal, stupid or self serving to take responsibility" is not the answer, and is not a suitable basis for the continuance confidence in "why the US is great and free" either. Perhaps a government that would stop the insider trading, and let these people who live by the sword of leverage die by it, might help - as in less government not more.

p.s. As to the unfairness of the wealthy west's lifestyle versus the third world, that is uncontrovertable, and indeed we are all, in the west, to a degree hypocritical, or at the very least uncharitable, in that we let such inequality continue. That truth is something everyone in the west must either avoid or contemplate, and also consider how they would explain their inaction to their conscience.

 

by WaterWings
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 17:43
#196124

and also consider how they would explain their inaction to their conscience.

What's the difference between a hippie and a true political activist?

Nothing. They both get the skulls crushed if they don't do what they're told by big brother:

And the Feds keep getting all these new toys! They can burst your eardrum from a block away - how cool!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAwmX5O-FAE

by sethstorm
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 22:32
#196287

p.s. As to the unfairness of the wealthy west's lifestyle versus the third world, that is uncontrovertable, and indeed we are all, in the west, to a degree hypocritical, or at the very least uncharitable, in that we let such inequality continue. That truth is something everyone in the west must either avoid or contemplate, and also consider how they would explain their inaction to their conscience.

That does not mean you wreck the First World to make it converge with the Third.  No hypocrisy or uncharitable nature exists for your "apples-to-oranges" comparison; it exists in the people like yourself that wish to tear down the West and its people.

 

by bokapita
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 03:47
#196406

"That does not mean you wreck the First World to make it converge with the Third.  No hypocrisy or uncharitable nature exists for your "apples-to-oranges" comparison; it exists in the people like yourself that wish to tear down the West and its people."

You completely misunderstand me. I have no wish to wreck the First World, neither to tear it down or harm its people. I merely point out the facts. Do you really think it is beyond the west to raise the others, IF, big IF, we were to devote the same energy, enterprise and innovation to the task as we devote to many others?

Just sayin'

by Anonymous
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 15:58
#196762

Unequal economic outcomes is the best way to motivate competition, productivity, and invention. It is what the US economy was built on. It also fosters the idea of thrift, savings and investment.

Implementing policies to force equal outcomes is a recipe for mediocrity (or worse).

Without the risk of real failure and the expectation of getting taken care of by the state (aka only the top 50% who actually pay income taxes), people behave poorly. They do not prepare to take care of themselves, spend too much, never save, don't get educated, don't work really hard, etc. - understanding these character traits are increasingly contrary to American culture.

If you have a safety net below you, you walk across the tight rope very differently than if there is no net. We should all walk like there is no net.

Nearly all countries have the ability to be sufficiently successful. The worst cases are in their predicament primarily because of the lack of personal property rights and powerful governments run by thugs. No aid will correct that.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:35
#195231

I would like to see one of these guys doing a towns-hall meeting where all are allowed in to ask questions...

by Cognitive Dissonance
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:36
#195232

If they are threatening Mutual Assured Destruction, I promise you if the pressure mounts and it appears a real audit the Fed bill with teeth is about to be passed, the Fed will engineer a near death experience. Period. End of story. When the lion roars when I approach, do I assume he wants to play patty cake or eat me for lunch?

I see people all the time saying things like "Don't fight the Fed" or "Go with the flow, it's too difficult to buck the Fed trend". There is no doubt the Fed has great power and can move markets if they wish to do so. Faced with what the Fed would consider a life threatening passage of a bill, why would we think they would not create a Mutual Assured Destruction event? Assume they are telling the truth, protect yourself and pass the bill. We know it's going to hurt like hell when we remove the band aid.

Congress needs to grow some balls. I will do what I need to do to protect myself either way.

by WaterWings
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:31
#195243

We know it's going to hurt like hell when we remove the band aid.

Yup. The only growth in the economy is gangrene. True to psychopathic form they will kill the host - it's too late for amputation.

by Hondo
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:42
#195247

I agree 100%........

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:09
#195294

If you were a member of Congress or worked for a regulatory agency and knew damn well all hell was about to break loose, why would you care about such things as statutes, regulations and your constituency? Does anyone remember Kelly's Heroes? What better time is there to rob and steal than just prior to a total collapse.

by Problem Is
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:33
#195394

"Does anyone remember Kelly's Heroes? What better time is there to rob and steal than just prior to a total collapse."

And the enemies were friends making a bank deal...

Nazis and US hand in hand looting some one's gold from a bank. Remember the way the Nazi officer's eyes lit up when the gold bar was reflecting on his face? That could have been Hank "Dickhead" Greenberg on an OSS job...

Great analogy, anony...

by mikla
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 09:33
#195817

"Does anyone remember Kelly's Heroes? What better time is there to rob and steal than just prior to a total collapse."

Great analogy, anony...

Great movie too.

by Sancho Ponzi
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:17
#195304

If you worked for Congress or a regulatory agency and knew damn well things were about to go totally sideways, why would you be concerned with such things as statutes, regulations and your constituency? Does anyone remember Kelly's Heroes? There's no better  to rob and steal than just before a complete collapse. 

It's like these guys are getting away with murder because they KNOW they can.

by Wondering
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 22:51
#195539

I agree with that CD.

I do think that if there was ever a time to let them threaten MAD its now....their options are limited...and we are too close anyway.

In addition as oligarchs get close to the end they eat their weakest members in a whirlwind. While the oligarchy will lie their asses off in a spiral....they also have to periodically throw someone to the mob. On that score they missed so many small fry early...now they have to throw out some real red meat to buy time

In the musical chairs of a death spiral between the politicians, the bankers and the Fed...the Fed goes first.

I would not be surprised if the Dems in Congress pass health care and then to cover their flanks from the charge they are spendthrifts...they sacrifice Bernake

A lot will depend on the unemployment numbers/jobless claims of the next few weeks, the anger over the bonuses and the number of stray things (bombings in Iraq, cyber attacks, Greece, etc, etc)  that might tip Congress into thinking too much is going wrong not to demonstrate to the folks back home that their representatives are not Ok with the status quo.

Obama defended Geithner...I am not sure he can defend Geithner and Bernake  and the Fed with unemployment continuing to go up. At some point in the spiral, that looks like the equivalent of saying Obama is happy about these conditions and not willing to do much about it. Defending the Fed from audit is starting to look like defending corruption  and fat cat profiteers (not on ZH...Zh was there long ago...but to the majority of the country)

Wonder if someone is going to ask Volcker what he thinks ...and what he would say?

by Miles Kendig
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 04:19
#195680

Congress & balls?   heh  The only way that this will really have the proper effect is if the fed and government continue along this pathway.  After all, having your political leadership come off like Oliver Twist begging his masters for seconds is a much bigger recruiting poster than follow the fed or else....

by Stevm30
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 08:10
#196437

"Faced with what the Fed would consider a life threatening passage of a bill, why would we think they would not create a Mutual Assured Destruction event?"

Fact is, the FED's predecessor did just that... Nicholas Biddle in 1833 - after calling Jackson's bluff before his re-election, by applying to extend the charter of the second bank of the United States (he wasn't bluffing and Jackson vetoed the bill and won the re-election anyway - oops!).  So what does Biddle do? Sharply contracted the money supply - throwing the country into a recession.  The wrath of the public was sharp and just, and eventually the bank was euthanized...

My point is - Bernanke will fight, like the desperate half-wit that he is, with all the tools available to him to stay in power... and he has a lot.  So literally billions of people are dependant on the whims of this one spineless man - a situation which should never be allowed to exist in a "free" country.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:39
#195241

Garbage dumps, landfills, and other monstrous detritus piles all need to be hidden from the people, nays paw?

Does that make them any less important to our survival?

So why not the virtual dump known as the FED?

We don't have to smell it, see it, or touch it while it does its job of turning the ground back into fertile soil.

Just think of the FED as an ethereal Compost heap, stoked by well-meaning elves, leprechauns, and wood nymphs.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:40
#195403

First of all, that's not true. If I wanted to go see how a garbage dump was run, I could. Second of all, "nays paw"? Really?

by WaterWings
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 16:27
#196078

Second of all, "nays paw"? Really?

Probably from watching too much Haiti coverage - "ness pah" is more like it.

And let it rot? No way! It's already in a perfect location to the be Memorial of the Second Revolution (of power back to the People from the bankers). We need a reminder to keep the bankers in check. I can't think of a more fitting and ironic location, right there on Constitution Ave.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&clie...

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:41
#195246

Today is Jan. 15, deadline for 1040ES, this quarter is 0, nada for the gov, thanks ZH for the accurate insight into this corrupt organization called the FED, starve the beast!

by Anonymouse
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:43
#195250

If "ultimate authority resides in Washington" then they need to be accountable to the government, else that statement is untrue.  That also would indicate they should be subject to audits and FOIA.  How are they accountable?

If they are "independent", then why are they working hand in hand with the administration?

It can't be both.

I would agree there is risk in giving Congress a greater hand in the management of the money supply.  I'd hate to see the economy boosted just in time for elections.

But at least Congress is accountable to voters (in theory, ignoring franking privileges, 2 party system, McCain Feingold, gerrymandering, etc).  And there is that pesky issue of the Constitution vesting power over the coining of money in Congress

by THE DORK OF CORK
on Mon, 01/18/2010 - 09:40
#197108

"If they are "independent", then why are they working hand in hand with the administration?

It can't be both."

Exactly - there has been a strange aversion of Anglo Saxon countries to directly own utilities. In a modern economy these institutions are necessary so to get over this problem America creates these strange hybrid creatures who are guaranteed by the state but their profits are privatised - this is the worst of all outcomes , it is either a state institution or it ain't.

The Fannie debacle is funny except for the fact that it is so serious - remember the  senior bond holders have not lost a cent on their "risk" capital. This strange belief has become so prevalent that even their countries armed forces are becoming dog soldiers.Power companies can control electricity prices through their monopoly postion and do not reinvest their capital but just run down their infrastructure,commercial banks of course do the same thing, trading houses have their deposits guaranteed by the taxpayer and of course you have the Fed above it all.

If a person in the states calls for the power companies to be nationalised he is called a socialist but in this brave new world of ours "capitalists" are the socialists.Yet America is listening to the siren song of Libertarians who will destroy the remaining utilities and merely create a  bigger power vacuum that will be occupied by malevolent institutions.I don't know wether to laugh or cry.

There is a big role for the state in controlling natural monopolies,if it does not they will control the state. 

by drbill
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:44
#195254

The ghost of Nicholas Biddle has possessed the Fed board!!

Where's Andrew Jackson to perform an exorcism?

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:56
#195280

Licking Van Buren wounds. While Nick was shown the door by Jackson, he got even in the Panic of 1837.

I don't think anyone but AIPAC, CFR, Skull and Bones and "The Illuminati", understand how truly powerful the money men are in this world.

by Crisismode
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 22:13
#195630

And the Haitans struck a deal with Satan to free themselves from the French.

 

Tin-foil Hat time everybody, don yours now!

by Snuph
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:45
#195258

The Fed must not allow the public to understand that they have just engineered the largest treasury heist in the history of the world.

Besides being unconstitutional to begin with, the Fed is nothing more than big banks taking care of big banks.

by Madcow
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 10:43
#195854

Agreed.

This will all come down to the Supreme Court. 

My feeling is that there is a giant safety valve and escape hatch that no one is talking about presently. 

The Federal Reserve Act was NEVER ratified. The entire system will be scrapped when things get bad enough. 

The Supreme Court - in my view - will NOT allow the country to be condemned to eternal poverty and debt slavery. Not when the basic mechanics of society are failing (food supply, transportation system, public safety ...)

Its an easy fix, really ... Just go back to having the UST issue currency. Let the asset markets collapse and allow people to write down their RE losses against income. 

Problem solved.

by carbonmutant
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:50
#195262

Didn't the Pentagon use the same kind of excuse before we found out about the $600 toilet seats?

by Hondo
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:48
#195266

Besides, if the Fed is doing its job as a regulator then there would be no banks in that bad of shape to make a run on that aren't already in the process of being sold, merged or liquidated.

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 23:13
#195676

The essence.... That the gods of finance will strike us down for uttering.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:50
#195271

Time for the truth regardless of consequences. Without the true picture, nothing can be restored. End the Fed.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:51
#195274

My guess is that the "political pressure" they fear is the push-back from voters once it becomes clear that the Fed's balance sheet will require decades of inflation and tax increases just to break even.

by MsCreant
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 01:36
#196366

You are too kind. That is only IF they were to start a true recovery, pay down plan TODAY. We know they plan to make the debt even worse.

by GlassHammer
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:54
#195276

Dear FED,

There is no doomsday scenario you can create that is more terrifying than the contents of your own audit.

v/r

GlassHammer

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:25
#195442

+1

by MsCreant
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 01:37
#196368

SledgeHammer!

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 15:55
#195278

There is a simple and immensely beneficial solution to dealing with these gangsters but the Congressional butt slaves aren't about to enact it. CALL THEIR BLUFF. Clearly they are only afraid of the exposure of their own horrendous wrong doing. And when massive tumult occurs in markets as a result of the Fed's epic fraud, who will it be most easy to tag with responsibility? The Fed will. And that will be their end and they know it. How to end the Fed menace?

CALL THEIR BLUFF!

by glenlloyd
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:00
#195283

The concocted "problem" with the legislation is always that it will alter the way the Fed implements monetary policy when clearly people know that this is not an issue. Repetition here is being used to try and ingrain into the minds of the collective that the argument they present is really an issue. Fortunately people are having none of it.

 

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:01
#195285

They know (and so do we) that the total financial system is based on the manipulation of the gold/silver prices, stock market and anything else of perceived value. The winner we know and the loser is.....you.

Transparency, honesty and integrity (huh?) will mean the end of the Wall street financial syndicate and they know this: they rather burn in hell than being an honest player.

Expect no cooperation: it is full-out war now. Read Jason Hommel's email exchange with Gensler of the CFTC:

http://silverstockreport.com/2010/Jan14-update.html

Where is the f%%)$& anger? Where is the leadership to confront these motherF^)^)$ and to bring down the system?

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:06
#195291

Here it is....

Why does anything as important as THIS ....

HAVE TO BE SO SECRETIVE ....

.........................................

To me ....this is a sure sign the system is highly
flawed....and must be changed....
........................................

Just as in any form of engineering....there can be structural
flaws....

Major US structural flaws.....

Political design....
The current design is win by advertising $$$$...
Solution: Internet only....review, information, voting....
And....voting by local township for tax expenditure categories...good riddance to Fed lobby system....

Finance Design....

Banks must be separated from the securities business....and
carry on local activities only....

Securities Exchanges....must be revamped into defragmented....
lower cost....lower spread....direct access electronic worldwide exchanges....no taxes of any kind....
Big players must be downsized....size limitations per account...MUST BE RETAIL run and oriented....No outside matching of any sort....Stocks by merit via a defragmented worldwide exchange....is the best way to distribute global wealth and innovation.....

Legal largesse.....
The biggest threat to business is divorce....employee lawsuits....medical costs....and all sorts of other forms of legal largesse both Fed and State....

Tax Structure....
One of the only tools that will allow the US to compete head on with BRIC....
$0 individual and corp. taxes...a 15% sole consumption tax....will put the US on a SUSTAINABLE UPWARD ECONOMIC PATH....

Education.....
Must be for the willing via the internet.....not because of wealthy, connected parents....

Via the internet....any willing child or adult can receive the education that is required....

by Mathematicaster
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:12
#195295

"Unfortunately, I knew nothing about Seldon's Plan except for the two axioms on which it is based: one, that there be involved a large enough number of human beings to allow humanity to be treated statistically as a group of individuals interacting randomly; and second, that humanity not know the results of psychohistorical conclusions before the results are achieved." G.T.

by faustian bargain
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:18
#195432

love those books.

by Jean Valjean
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:13
#195299

M.A.D. Why am I not frightened.  I say "Bring it."

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:47
#195345

I agree...I'm sick of threats by mealy mouthed scumbags..

by naiverealist
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:26
#195318

". . .Looking across time and across countries, there is abundant evidence that economic policy and macroeconomic performance are generally better when the central bank's monetary policy decisions are shielded from the political pressures of the moment. For an illustrative case, one need only look to the 1970s in the U.S., when political influence led to high and volatile inflation that disrupted economic growth. . . ."

 

Does anybody know to what this refers? 

by Kayman
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 18:27
#196842

to Naiverealist:

It refers to obfuscation. Lacker is trying to tell us that the unemployment and double-digit inflation of the 1970's was someone else's doing, not the Fed.

It reminds me of the story of the kid in diapers, when his Mom pulls the diaper  back and in the bottom there is a  smelly yellow turd.  The kid looks up to his Mom and says, "not mine, don't know how it got in there ! "

Lacker and his cohorts will resort to any lie, any absurdity to hide the truth. The "asset" side of the Fed balance sheet is yellow poop.  And the taxpayers have paid $2 Trillion for it.

Lucky for us, we have these guys on our side, saving the system....

by CB
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:26
#195321

It's like beating a dead horse over and over, but here goes:  A full audit would flay the fed wide open, showing its rotten criminal actions.   How can one think otherwise?   It's so silly.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:27
#195322

Here is the easier road. Forget the audit. Just allow the govt to print money and take the fed out of it. No more debt, no more interest payments, and money still backed by the full faith of the same government. We honor our payments and debts and dont ever need to issue any debt again.

Ben Franklin

by BoeingSpaceliner797
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:36
#195333

Will the 1913 FRA and all subsequent FRS legislation be repealed in my lifetime?  One can only hope.

by buzzsaw99
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:59
#195357

Lacker can suck my ballz.

by Cognitive Dissonance
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:12
#195376

I may not be able to describe pornography but I'll know it when I see it.

And Lacker providing that "lip" service for you will most definitely be pornography of the ZH kind. :>))

by buzzsaw99
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:19
#195382

by crosey
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:10
#195373

Full disclosure and truth will ultimately restore faith, and an efficient market.  Initially, it will be painful, and probably so globally as mistakes unwind, and corrections are made.  But, ultimately, it's the best thing.

So we live off beanie-weenies for a while...so what?  We'll figure out a way to survive, and then succeed, once again.

As always, truth sets you free.

by Problem Is
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:24
#195388

Well if the Fed tells the public it will be financial armageddon... oh wait that's a blog... financial destruction if the Fed is audited...

Then the American public will just have to pull all their money out of Fed banks to be safe... and then sell all their NYSE and S&P holdings to be safe, too.

Your move Fed Gov'nah...

by gossamer
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:48
#195413

Exactly!  A great option would be to move our assets to the Bank of North Dakota. 

by thomasjefferson
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 21:00
#195583

I thought I read somewhere that only North Dakota citizens and businesses can bank with the Bank of North Dakota.  I'm in the process of verifying.

End the Fed, bitches!

thomas j.

by Ned Zeppelin
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:47
#195390

That reminds me: Please add the phony baloney, completely contrived money market draw down of September 18, 2008 to the list of events that at the very least need to be fully and completely investigated as to who, how much, when and where.  Do you really believe that much money was suddenly sucked out of the system in that span of time? I do not, and must be shown how it occurred. A not unreasonable request, in light of the dramatic steps the government took (an announced $250,000 account guarantee, right?) to "stop" the run, and the apparently fantastic danger such a run poses.  The whole thing sounded contrived then, and sounds contrived now.  Do you know anybody who ran to their money market fund that day and took out ALL of their money that day?  I mean, WHO did that? And, is it really that easy to get that much money out that quickly in general? I mean, not everybody with money in a money market account watches it like a hawk on the Internet.  I smell bullshit.  Smelled it then, smell it now. Issa? Add it to the list.  Throw this carcass on the table, grab the chest saw and let's slice this foul-smelling thing open and look inside. 

Just for the heck of it - let's, for fun, assume that the run consisted of quite a few account holders simultaneously coming to the conclusion that they had better get their money out pronto, and you also need to assume, that this same group of account holders were assuaged and comforted enough by the "announced" $250K account guarantee to  - all at once - stop.  This is what we are told occurred.  So, to me, that means the withdrawing parties were a group of people who had $250K or less in their accounts.  Let's make the very generous assessment that these panicked folks had an average of $200,000 in their accounts.  To get to $550 billion, that would mean 2,750,000 people took their money out in "an hour or two."  Do you really believe that happened that day? Where did that money go? And also ask yourself, if there were that much panic in the streets, where's the corresponding bank runs, and grocery store runs, and ammunition runs? Multiply that panic over the much larger number of people who simply did not have that kind of money in a money market account, but a much smaller amount, and the numbers go exponential, and reveal this event to be something different from what it was claimed to be.

It was contrived, to create a sense of urgency. It was over before it started, and it was used to bludgeon foolish congressmen and the general public. Use your heads, people.

by Marley
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:29
#195434

Bingo!  "One can’t explain an unusual cluster of errors by citing greed, which is always around, just as one can’t explain a cluster of airplane crashes by citing gravity." - L. H. White

by Tethys
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:36
#195445

Most excellent points.  I, for one, did not even know about the run until three months later.  I don't follow the markets in detail day-by-day, but I do generally try to keep up on things.

Realizing how out-of-the loop I actually was is what eventually led me to sites like ZH. 

The timing of the events of Sept 2008 was always suspicious to me - right as it was coming down to the wire in an election year.  One sure way to force 'change' in a election is a poor economy, and the events of that month resulted in a pretty stunning financial turn-around, at least in the eyes of the public.

Foreign influence?  Goldman making sure all their political contributions paid off? Who knows.  Of one thing I am sure - even with all of the information now available on sites like this, I am still a few levels of understanding away from what is really going on.

 

by Cognitive Dissonance
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 07:08
#195772

"Of one thing I am sure - even with all of the information now available on sites like this, I am still a few levels of understanding away from what is really going on."

Dude, you're not alone. I've been in the business for over 20 years and while I understand the details better and I think I understand the manipulation to a greater extent, the fact is that I don't truly understand. And it's not for lack of trying.

With the Treasury and Federal Reserve ...ops.....Treserve (thanks Marla for the new word, I was growing tired of using the empires' terminology) working almost exclusively behind the curtain, you can never be sure who's working with or for the Treserve and for what purpose. I suspect different parts of the same bank are often working against each other without ever knowing it. This is (of course) intentional, not because they wish to quell panic, but instead to instill panic and manipulation when it serves their goals.

by msjimmied
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 20:22
#195544

Whoa...feel like I'm free falling down telescoping rabbit holes. I need to light up and contemplate this, almost too much to digest.

Thanks.

by WaterWings
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 21:55
#195606

+1

Thanks for running some simple numbers - it makes it more "tangible". And what kind of idiot has that much cash hanging out in a bank account anyway!

by SilverIsKing
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 22:43
#195654

I can only speak for myself when I say that I had no inclination to run the bank and withdraw any money nor do I know of anyone who was inclined to do so on September 18, 2008.

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 23:09
#195674

Ned - I been saying that IF these folks really knew how to be scandalous we would be in even deeper trouble.  The deal is that for folks who are used to manipulating the offices of government & justice the idea that the decisions rendered by the corrupted institutions may well be unlawful is just beyond these peoples reasoning process..... Many folks have forgotten how quickly the concept of justice can change.

by w a l k - a w a y
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 01:26
#195724

very well put

by boiow
on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 21:28
#196255

exactly , who took out the 550 billion. that question has to be answered to get to the root of this current mess.

by Anonymous
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 08:35
#196445

I'm just a small drop in a large bucket, but as soon as I read a mm fund broke the buck, I instantly sold by mm fund. And I believe that others that understood what breaking the buck meant liquidated too. And this includes large money managers that are paid to manage large cash accounts. I don't monitor my mm account like a hawk, but I do monitor headlines. The mm fund breaking the buck was a headline on a Yahoo page that I opened. I immediately sold when I saw that headline and passed on the information to others. The headline itself was non-descript -- there weren't any whistles and bells or quotes from people recommending liqidations. I read it several times to make sure I understood what I was reading. I went to Bloomberg to read it there. I remember these events well because the financial system was in collapse, which doesn't happen very often and anyone with a brain should have realized that. The biggest day of withdrawls occured on a Wednesday if I remember; September 18, 2008 is a Thursday, the data for mm withdrawls is available to verify the liquidation flows that week. I believe the mm guarantee didn't come until Friday or over the weekend; anyway it came after the large withdrawals had occured. My money went into a demand deposit 0% interest rate account. I haven't looked at a stock market chart for that week, but I remember there was at least one large downdraft that week related to the mm issue. The stock of State Street was hit hard as they are responsible for mm clearing and couldn't keep up with the clearing requirements. If Paulsen hadn't offered the guarantee that weekend, conditions would have continued to deteriorate the next week.

by Kayman
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 18:25
#196860

Dear Anon 196445:

If everyone else, acted as you did, by re-depositing your funds into a demand deposit account, then there was no "run on the banking system".  Those actions would truly be zero sum. There would be no net effect on the banking system.

If, however, on Wednesday the 17th, you and all the others, withdrew, in cash, $550 billion, there would have been many witnesses of desperate crowds, and unlikely enough paper currency to do the job.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:32
#195395

Isn't anybody going to do something? We are being held hostage and noone is getting arrested. Why can't these fuckers be arrested?

by Tethys
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:33
#195452

It's called 'power'.  Look it up....

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 23:02
#195669

Why can't these fuckers be arrested?

Simple.  The political & judicial classes are too pusstified to do anything except after a banker has their way to do an Oliver Twist and ask for more....

by gossamer
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:34
#195399

The American people being threatened by a financial terrorist representing their central bank is nothing new.  The president of the 2nd Bank of the United States Nicholas Biddle, threatened tight monetary policy and basically a depression if Andrew Jackson didn't back off with his move to kill the bank and not renew it's charter.  Jackson killed the bank in 1836 and survived an assassin's attempt on his life.  

Remember this 1790's quote from Mayer Amschel Rothschild:  "Give me control of a nation's money supply and I care not who makes it's laws."

The ultimate power lies within monetary policy.  If we are able to kill the Fed it will be like performing an excorcism on our economy.  It will have violent effects to say the least. 

by TheGoodDoctor
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 01:45
#196371

Well and they are domestic. So, domestic terrorism is covered under the Patriot Act. So, we do have a right to go after them. Plus, how does that go? "Enemies foreign and domestic." Seems like the power should be in our hands.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:37
#195400

Seems to me that this is nothing that a pitchfork and a torch can't solve.

by merehuman
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 20:08
#195533

I have heard those words alot. Havent seen any action. All ATMs still work and bankwindows have no damages. Mansions have NOT been set afire. No protest at all.

Two days without my computer reminded me of our fake reality. Watching the TV , Except for Ratigan, i got the impression all was well with the world.

 

Locally our coin shop tells me of late folks been bringing their gold coins in to trade for dollars. The coastal semi rich are hurting.  I too just traded silver for cash. Our locals are closing down one by one showing up as empty store fronts and little traffic.

But watching the telly i realize how mesmerized we are by the TV message.

Foul on the media, and on the leaders leaving us all unprepared for the naked future.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:40
#195404

It's not just a threat. I think Fed employees will intentionally try to screw up the economy as much as possible, if the Fed feels it is under political attack. This happened when president Jackson dismantled the Second Bank of United States (our second, unconstitutional central bank): http://mises.org/story/3632

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.