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Racketeering 101: Bailed Out Banks Threaten Systemic Collapse If Fed Discloses Information
And so the guns come out blazing. The Clearing House Association, another name for all the banks that were bailed out over the past year with the generous contributions from all of you, dear taxpayers, are now threatening with another instance of complete systemic collapse if Bloomberg's lawsuit is allowed to proceed unchallenged, let alone if any of the "Audit The Fed" measures are actually implemented.
As a reminder, The Clearing House Association consists of ABN Amro, Bank Of America, The Bank Of New York, Deutsche Bank, HSBC, JP Morgan Chase, US Bank and Wells Fargo.
In a declaration filed in the Bloomberg Case (08-CV-9595, Southern District of New York), the banks demonstrate no shame in attempting to perpetuate the status quo with regard to the Federal Reserve and demand that the wool over the eyes of the general population remain firmly planted in perpetuity.
The Clearing House submits this declaration because the Court's Order threatens to impair the ability of our members to access emergency funds through the New York Fed's Discount Window without suffering the severe competitive harm that public disclosure of their identity will cause.
Our members have accessed the New York Fed's Discount Window with the understanding that the Fed will not publicly disclose information about their borrowing, especially their identity. Industry experience, including very recent and searing experience, has shown that negative rumors about a bank's financial condition - even completely unfounded rumors - have caused competitive harm, including bank runs and failures.
Surely transparency would facilitate rumor-mongering to an unprecedented degree. After all rumors spread much easier when everyone knows the true financial condition of banks.
And here, in plain written Times New Roman, you see what racketeering by a major bank consortium looks like:
If the names of our member banks who borrow emergency funds are publicly disclosed, the likelihood that a borrowing bank's customers, counterparties and other market participants will draw a negative inference is great. Public speculation that a financial institution is experiencing liquidity shortfalls - which would be a natural inference from having tapped emergency funds - has caused bank customers to withdraw deposits, counterparties to make collateral calls and lenders to accelerate loan repayment or refuse to make new loans. When an institution's customers flee and its credit dries up the institution may suffer severe capital and liquidity strains leaving it in a weakened competitive position.
Pardon me if I am a broken record here, but would rumors not spread much less if there was more transparency, if investors and other financial intermediaries were fully aware of the conditions of their counterparties, if banks did not have to cover their billions in reserve losses by pretending they are viable and essentially being constant wards of the state?
The Banks' racketeering has gone on for far too long.
And yet, it does not stop: the conclusion from the banks' letter:
In sum, our experience differs from the factual conclusions the Court appears to have reached about the nature of competition in the banking industry:
- The competitive harm to institutions that are publicized as needing emergency funding is not "speculative," but demonstrated by the recent multiple failures of financial institutions whenever information about their funding difficulty has been disclosed.
- The disclosure does not involve mere "embarassing publicity" but information that could result in the immediate demise of an institution.
- The disclosure would not merely "stigmatize [ ]"the institution or make it "look [ ] weak," but goes to its very viability.
- The disclosure of accessing emergency funding is not an "inherent risk" of market participation, but an extraordinary risk in extraordinary circumstances.
- Competitors can use the disclosure to advertise or publicize that they are financial stronger because they don't need emergency funding.
In a nutshell - the banks want their complete opacity cake and eat it too, or else, the racket goes, the transparency that will somehow promote massive rumor mongering will again destroy capitalism. In the meantime, the Ken Lewises of the world can continue touting how stable their businesses are based on optimistic future projections, while implicitly, they continue to survive merely thanks to the cash granted them by you, taxpayers.
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Interesting news from the soap opera, "As The Stomach Turns".........
Open the friggin books!
So they show us the detonator to the suicide bomb yet again. They've written in plain English that they must be allowed to lie to their shareholders or they'll kill everyone.
Any bets if America will cave again? Funny, we can shoot pirates from a rolling ship deck and save a Captain held hostage but we'll be damned if we can't stand up to a bank that holds the American taxpayers hostage.
i fucking dare them to do that; i dare them
i dare them to collapse the whole thing again; and to see will those 1 billion arms in private hands remain silent; i fucking dare them
i don't think they have the balls, its all a bluff, but if they do so; i believe Manhattan would burn and Washington would look like a goddamn Darfur.
absolutely right. crash it again and their will be literal heads on pikes down wall street.
I double dog dare them.
Believe that in some transactions, yes Virginia, there was no collateral.
It is time to call the triple dog dare on 'em CB
like threatening to cut their own balls off; ain't gonna happen cuz they already lack the balls to lose.
Are you speaking about Congress? Please leave those useful idiots alone. I love Mozart and someone has to sing the castrato parts.....
Hey. I sent an email to Ron Paul. He's not EVEN MY STATES representative and i got an email back that showed it was read.
Anyone want to email the Tiny Tim, Bubblelicious Bernanke, Stockflipping Jaime Dimon and get an email back? Of course not because everyone knows those people DON"T GIVE ONE DAMN about anyone besides themselves and thier tight knit partners in crime.
Don't dare them C.B. ...
As Bob Dylan once so eloquently paraphrased:
"When you ain't got nothin' you've got nothing to loose.."
As for the inevitable 'next implosion'... by the time that happens they hope that the Fed will have swapped out ALL of the toxic crap on their books for real money which they will then use to buy the 'cinders' of what remains for a penny on the dollar and claim they are rescuing (what little remains of) the economy.
Heroes the lot!
Congression Medals of Valor and Honor all round.
Then they will blame you for everything for opening up the "Ark of the Covenant" (saw that in Raiders!)
Doom Raiders!
Didn't Dylan also sing "When you think that you've lost everything/you find out you can always lose some more..." (Time out of Mind - Trying to Get to Heaven)?
Yes I believe you may be correct...
That "some more" will certainly be the public debt that will be paid for by your children, childrens children, childrens childrens children...
Till the next "pump and dump" that is.
As Lizzy has pointed out previously... Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Another point of view (I'll credit this to Rainer von Vielen, but maybe he just nicked it):
"Freedom is but the distance between a hunter and his prey."
ZerOhead, CB's dare won't matter, these people are evil, and all that matters to them is power and money. They can make money in their bunkers under all circumstances, so they could care less....but just like the very under populated army of Greeks won Marathon, if we don't protect our republic, who wiil?
I have believed since the end of last year that this is what this game is about... the government has been held hostage by a group of '2-year old tantrum throwing' banks... and the '2-year olds' are winning... someone needs to give them a 'long time-out'. This stand-off is really getting interesting... and clearly the market knows who is in charge... otherwise after a letter like that the market would have tanked. Everyone wants to believe... I find this the single most interesting study of human behavior and group think since back in the World War II era.
It may as well say "We the Banksters don't want any transparency or regulations, we just want the taxpayers to fork over $750 Billion dollars when we need it no questions asked."
Minor point, but isn't that exactly what the original TARP legislation drafted by Hank "Give GS $13 billion or Else" Paulson (who should be in shackles) on or about September 22, 2008 say?
IF revealing the reciptients would cause a run on the banks (and I'm not sure it would) it would create further demands on the cash strapped FDIC - there are approximately 500 banks still in trouble - at least. The goal has been to try to reduce the number of failures, keep the rates low so banks can rebuild their capital.
If there is further drain on the FDIC, there will by necessity be further assessments on the profitable banks - which cause them additional injury and possibly lead to more failures. In addition, it increases the need for further bailouts (the banks are insured/guaranteed by the FDIC - federal agency) and can't be allowed to fail as some have wished.
More transparency in this case simply seems likely to most to add to the banking woes and further increase the need for taxpayer involvement. Which is not what most of us want.
That, in a nutshell, is the problem with a financial system based entirely on lies. If you begin to tell the truth in one area, lies told in other areas are revealed. So I guess you advocate continuing to lie everywhere?
obfuscation and sophistry
Let the chips fall where they may...obviously looking the other way has not worked and will not work!
Let me ask you this, Judge: does the Fed really think your campaign of misinformation is useful? It would seem to me a better strategy would be to remain quiet. By your coming on message boards like this and pushing the Fed agenda, you are hurting your case by forcing your opposition to become more educated on the ways of the Fed. And the more the American people know about the Fed, the more angry they are going to become.
The strategy of secrecy and obfuscation worked well for almost 100 years, you must be getting very worried that your whole charade is about to end if you are hiring people to come on message boards and push your agenda. Smacks of desperation.
GhostFI; nothing to add but +1000 dude
same, same
He's out of his league.
+inf
Are you implying that judge one of the recently hired Fed "traders"?
Thank you!
Funny, I'm the only one posting facts instead of rants... Look at cheeky - I've pointed out 3 separate myths he's propagated, now he's reduced to nothing but personal insults and raging at the machine.
Kinda nice huh?
Also, I do not, and have never worked for the Fed. And I've posted on other topics as well, not that the facts matter to CB.
Tell us why the banks cannot be recapitalized by haircutting bondholders in chapter 11 bankruptcy or an FDIC receivership. You keep ducking the question. Funds are required to tell investors that bonds are risk capital with risk of loss. Why can't bondholders take their losses? Why should the rest of the economy be forced to bail out bondholders, putting us into a decade or more of stagnation to pay bondholders trillions of dollars?
First of all, many banks do go into Ch11 or FDIC.
I've never argued that the rest of the economy should bail out bondholders, but the simple fact is, without a modestly solid banking system, our economy collapses. Secondly, much of the banks problem is due to regulation - the forcing/encouragment for them to make liar loans in the first place. Do you think bondholders should be responsible for Barney Frank's idiocy? I have a hard time penalizing them for doing what is required. Without the liar loans, there would be no credit crisis - end of story.
Secondly, Obama's buds Raines and Johnson, abused their powers at FNMA and FHLMC to underwrite much of the crap out there and pushed it on the market. The market saw a AAA Agency issued paper and trusted that - there is no way to do DD on a MBS pool once it's securitized. That's not the banks fault. Do they share some culpability - yes, and some heads should roll, but I don't think collapsing the whole system is necessary or right.
First, there is plenty of capital to form banks, and the government could even give seed capital to form them. In fact, people have been applying for licenses to open banks, but the FDIC has been stonewalling because it wants people to buy crappy banks instead of open new ones.
Second, bondholders are responsible for investing in banks that made bad loans. They knowingly took on the risk that the bank would be unable to repay its bonds because it made bad loans out of greed or out of fear of barney frank, dodd, etc.
Third, people that invested in MBS/CDO's/etc (especially non-agency MBS) took on the risk that uncle sham would stop supporting the market. They lost a bet, and now, they need to bear their losses. Forcing bondholders to eat losses will not collapse the system. As i said, there is plenty of capital out there. But it isn't held by suckers that'll invest at inflated prices because Geithner/Bernanke says things are worth par. It is held by people who do their homework, and will not be fooled by Timmy G.
wipe out the capital structure, force bond holders to take their hair cuts. bonds are NOT risk-free investments. what you propose Judge, is more of the same BS, and REQUIRES constant tax payer support.
How do you propose Banks rebuild their capital?? steep yield curve/NIM expansion is a fallacy when no one is able to borrow. Why are bond holders being protected???? Banks SHOULD fail if they make stupid decisions, that is what capitalism IS. You wreap the benefit AND the cost.
we would have been done with this financial mess already if this had been done right in the first place. now, as was eloquantly stated by someone else, these F'ng banks have the gaul to declare record bonuses and increased salaries, and then scream bloody murder when there might be a chance their crack is withdrawn????
F*CK THEM. Thinking like yours are the reason the common man continues to suffer.
PS, i bet we end positive today. unreal.
Judge,
It would appear that we could apply your reasoning to the whole of the GFC.
If banks, the Fed and various agencies stopped relying on reports of payment histories and such then there would have been no crisis and the economy would be in full swing. After all, it is the financial system that demands to know the standardized, measurable credit worthiness of every borrower. These borrowers make up nearly all of the US economy and if the information on credit worthiness coupled with payment histories were witheld from banks, the bond markets and everyone else then we never owuld have had a financial crisis because its reporting would never have had occured.
You are proposing the very same treatment for the banks and the Fed.
Why for the banks and not the consumers or other businesses?
They demand ultra transparency for their customers, for their own cross marketing, as well as government intermeddling. And when not satisfied, call in the billy club and crack a head or a few hundred. Banks are simply another policing function.
actually a good point, and I don't argue a mess hasn't been created.
But what dozens of posters on here forget, is that the deposits are federally insured. That means the banks can't be allowed to fail or close their doors - that is just not an option. Now if we want to remove federal insurance from deposits - that's a whole different argument and one I probably wouldn't object to - let the market price them accordingly.
But just becasue some want to ignore them, doesn't mean the current facts change or don't apply.
You just don't listen.
It's not his job. It's his job to to enforce a dictatorial rhetorik. Listening just isn't an option. Sympathy for what he does just isn't an option.
While deposits are insured there is not much else insured on those books. And because they are federally insured that does not mean they are NOT allowed to fail. Being bought/taken over/received IS failure. They cease doing business, the FDIC pays investors (only up to their newly increased 250k until 12/31/13) and they sell whats left of their crap portfolio of loans and securities.
Please answer my question.... Either we have markets where providers of liquidity can assess the landscape or they cannot.. Which one do you advocate?
Chirp... chirp... chirp...
'where providers of liquidty can assess the landscape or not" - what are you talking about?
Right now, the main provider of liquidity is the Fed, I don't think they have any problem 'assessing the landscape'....
Glad to see you admit the centrality of Fed actions over deposits. However, the Fed is not the only provider of liquidity. Again, should all providers of liquidity be they depositors, bond holders, money market fund investors, or taxpayers whose largess is what the central bank uses have access to the same level of financial disclosure concerning their banks as the banks require of their loan recipients?
I already know your answer is no since you failed to answer in the affirmative earlier and just put forth a weak attempt at side stepping the question.
The weak represent the weaker. That is you judge, the weak and the weaker, begging for a bit more time to loot the taxpayer before we introduce you and yours to Le Madam..
It's like 'national security' - there's some things the voters don't need to know, they have representatives who are privy to the info and then are responsible for making the decisions - is why we live in a republic and not a democracy.
So no, all providers should not have access to the same info - when many of the providers may actually be competititors or antagonists. The Fed receives confidential trading data from their member banks and that is not other traders business - unless everyone's trading strategy will be made public.
And I won't engage in the personal insults. I'll stick to the facts. Thanks anyway.
The facts? Is the you, Sheila? Anybody that attempts to validate the need for the FDIC is an idiot.
Any insult in the blogosphere is paradoxically non-personal, you piece of garbage.
The PEOPLES money is insured.
Not the 100+ trillion worth of derivative toilet paper these scamsters have racked up.
Regardless our system is shattered and beyond repair.
It WILL collapse. Either by sacrificing the dollar or defaulting on national debt. One or the other WILL happen, if not both.
A consumption based economy will choke itself out. It is a simple system in which nature is a perfect example.
I am all for tearing the band-aid off instead of teasing it off.
I'm not as fatalistic as you. the 100 trillion is notional, not actual cash, and the vast majority of those are on solid footing.
If there is further drain on the FDIC, there will by necessity be further assessments on the profitable banks - which cause them additional injury and possibly lead to more failures. In addition, it increases the need for further bailouts (the banks are insured/guaranteed by the FDIC - federal agency) and can't be allowed to fail as some have wished.
--------
The banks don't need any capital. The banks bondholders can have their bonds forcibly converted into equity, leaving the bank with enough capital to bear all losses.
The banks do need capital, and I'm nost sure about the legality of forcing bondholders to convert...
I'm not sure there are any 'good' or simple answers here. I've not seen them - not presented by anyone with a rational perspective.
Bank bondholders can be forced to convert into equity in chapter 11 bankruptcy, or using FDIC procedures. The bank bondholders don't want to absorb losses. But that is too bad. Forcing the public to eat the bondholder's and shareholders' losses will tank the US economy for 10 years, or more.
Again, I'm not sure of the legality of that. I think the obama administration was wrong in forcing it.
It is perfectly legal for creditors of a bank to put it into involuntary bankruptcy because it can't pay its creditors in the ordinary course; and without liquidity from the Fed, many could not.
It is also perfectly legal for the FDIC to seize banks that in the zone of insolvency, and then let the FDIC use receivership or conservatorship to impose haircuts on creditors.
This is all perfectly legal.
That I understand - as long as the bondholders claims are upheld, the forced conversion to equity is what I question.
The creditors can be forced with a choice of liquidating the bank, or taking equity in a reorganized bank. Assuming the bank has a business worth operating, the creditors will flip to equity because they'll make more money than they would liquidating the bank. Generally, they'll convert so they can make more money. However, they'll refuse to convert if Timmy G and Bernanke are handing out bailout money, which ought to be illegal (if it isn't already illegal under current law).
DUDE, where did the money go? And how much else is needed? And if the banks are sound and we're having a real recovery here why you're scared shitless? How long should we cover up banks asses when they fuck up? Is this the financial innovation you were talking about the other day?
FYI the so called "Cash-strapped FDIC" has 99 years to pay you back anyway...so there goes that argument.
Burying your head up your ass pretending all is ok is no way to go through life sunshine. Even an alcoholic eventually has to admit they have a problem before they can attempt to fix it. They they suck it up, own up to it and turn it around. Those that orchestrated the fraud, I want to read about their corpses swinging from lamp posts before this is over! By your defense of systemic fraud and those that orchestrated it, it sounds like you might be one of them.
Why not. Let's loan them lots more money and then add more and more late fees and up the interest and give them arbitrarily short payment windows and expand the debt artificially until a couple trillion turns into 20 trillion dollars. Then we'll be BANKING YOU. LOL I'm sure we can push 50 billion dollar late fees every month through congress.
Yo dawg. I heard you like usary so we put some usary in your usary so you can get used while your using.
Judge... I am not sure that you are going to be terribly popular on this blog... but everyone's opinions are welcome... however your premise on this point only perpetuates the Ponzi scheme that exists... the FDIC is insolvent and only by the good graces of the taxpayers can they keep operating. This entire financial system has been built with pixie sticks... and needs to crash and burn... and only then be rebuilt with a steel foundation.
I don't ever worry about popularity, but thanks for the kind words.
As far as ponzi - I assume you meant fractional banking - which I think is solid, though as can anything else, be abused. We've abused it and are now having to clean up and pull back. I think it can be done without turning our economy into a third world nation - at least it's worth a try.
But it will be painful for many. The system should insure that those most guilty - pay - but in this case, such as the support for Paul's bill - the guilty (Franks, Pelosi, Reed) will only gain more power - which will delay and intensify the day of reckoning.
IMHO.
Yes, I also agree that those most guilty should - pay... but that is the biggest problem with this whole messy situation... and what will continue to perpetuate this problem into the future... in the case of the TBTF, the bondholders and even those with equity shares did not pay... they got a free ride from government, while we now watch theirsmaller bank brethren go under wiping everyone out who has a stake in those banks.
And clearly fractional banking is NOT WORKING... otherwise, we the taxpayer, would not have to subsidize the capitalistic banking system through our implied guarantee to backstop the insolvent FDIC.
I do welcome you on this site... and ignore the intolerant... everyone's reasonable voices should be heard.
Agreed it's not, but that's like saying since GM failed that we can't make cars in America.
I know it can work, it simply is the only way to allow the economy to grow. Money supply has to be able to expand to meet expanding demand on a risk adjusted scale. The problem was the gov't (Franks etc) eliminated the risk for borrowers in the 95 CRA revision, and gov't (FNMA,FHLMC) transferred the risk to unknowing customers who bought the MBS with a AAA Gov't guarantee.
The market was distorted by gov't intervention... and we're all paying for it.
without fractional banking we would not find ourselves in free-fall mode; ergo - fractional banking is far from being on "solid" ground. you're confusing theory with historic reality - kinda like "thou shalt not kill."
You confuse fractional banking with poor banking regulation and practices...
Man, you're dumb. Did you draft the green shoots memo too?
that's almost as witty as it is intelligent.
Do you have anything else to add?
your argument is a slightly more elegant version
of the cha solution - hide the dead bodies and lie
till your teeth rot....
but your premise is entirely
false and shows what a snake oil salesman you are.
to wit: any bank failures will further burden
the taxpayer. i'm not buying it....the too big
to fail logic - which is your argument wrapped
in systemic risk religion - is not valid and
should not continue - it's a grand illusion which
fraudulent pathological liars such as yourself
perpetuate to keep corruption afloat....when the
fdic runs out
of money that should be the end...and taxpayers
should run pitch forks into the backs of
congressmen, banksters, and academics touting
such fraud...
your solution for keeping the cancer ridden rot
infested system alive so that it can infect
other healthy organisms is a crime against
humanity....you are a criminal pathological
whore....
your solution for keeping criminal minds running
the chicken coop so that they can continue to
destroy whatever else they touch is a prescription
for more destruction....
you, judge asswipe, should rot in a jail after
the pitch fork goes up your ass....
i do not fear a collapse of the economy - another
mutually assured destruction device i am sure
that you learned from your neocon cold war days...
i seriously doubt that the economy is that fragile
and if it is it needs to be exposed to the light
of day for destruction - just like piece of shit
houses are bought for the land and then torn
down....
next time you see timmy and ben in georgetown
tell them to go fuck themselves...
So they show us the detonator to the suicide bomb yet again. They've written in plain English that they must be allowed to lie to their shareholders or they'll kill everyone.
Any bets if America will cave again? Funny, we can shoot pirates from a rolling ship deck and save a Captain held hostage but we'll be damned if we can't stand up to a bank that holds the American taxpayers hostage.
The sociopath criminals seek DR. Bwahahahahahahahaha....
Viva la Banana Republic Americana
Revelation would confirm why ZH exits!!!!
go get your money from the bank while you can
Done...lets spread the word
do you have any strategies for w/drawing large amounts of cash so as not to raise any red flags?
what seems to be a problem?
I don't think you need to worry about raising red flags... in fact I would carry a big red flag in with you when you withdraw the funds... just call ahead... tell them what you want to withdraw... and then go and get your money. If you don't call ahead they will tell you they don't have that amount of cash available right now. Or just open a Canadian account (if you are a US citizen) and you can wire money as you desire.
I agree. I also think it is illegal to say this. Be careful.
It is illegal to say "JPMorgan is having problems, take your money out while you can".
It is not illegal to say "JPMorgan is a tool of the devil, take your money out so as not to support the devil".
Members are
BB&T
Bank of America
The Bank of New York Mellon
The Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ, Ltd.
Citibank
City National Bank
Comerica Bank
Deutsche Bank
Fifth Third Bank
First-Citizens
HSBC
JPMorgan Chase Bank
KeyBank
M&T Bank
PNC Bank
RBS Citizens
UBS
U.S. Bank
Wells Fargo Bank
My accounts at any of these banks will be closed by the end of the week!
I can't close my BoA account without significant difficulties, but I will begin to look at withdrawing 70-80% of my capital just as soon as I can find something that looks safe enough.
If transparency cannot be acheived by request, then the institution does not deserve to hold on to my money. It's just that simple.
I closed my WFC account right after TARP was passed, and put it all in a local credit union. I use Schwab for my main trading account, because they didn't take too much govt money (though they did use the money market guarantee - small change in the big scheme of things).
I also cancelled my Chase credit card and got one from Schwab.
Did the same for my wife's account, and mother in law.
Starve the beast. It is the only way to save America now, our politicians won't do it.
So, RBS Citizens is where my 2x-monthly paycheck gets deposited and Citigroup holds my mortgage (and it used to be Wells Fargo). Freaking awesome! I'm totally owned by the crack whores of the bankster cartel.
I notice that INGDirect is not on this list (unless I'm missing something), so I suppose the strategy of keeping the absolute minimum needed to avoid fees at RBSC and dumping everything else I have there is, well, still fruitless - but at least could make me feel a little better.
http://www.bankrate.com/rates/safe-sound/bank-ratings-search.aspx
its a start anyway...
"More transparency in this case simply seems likely to most to add to the banking woes and further increase the need for taxpayer involvement. Which is not what most of us want."
I whole heartedly agree. We need to keep this under wraps so Joe Six Pack doesn't find out how bad things are until AFTER bonus season. Capiche!
If they succeed in pulling off this crap, i.e., telling the taxpayer "you have no right to know why you work from January to May each year for us", then all bets are off.
Lock and load. Time to rid the world of any TBTF banker.
And they can be thankful the people don't think like a CIA "Enhanced Interrogator".
Yeah I'm not so sure rhetoric about killing unarmed citizens furthers the cause here. I'd rather be raped by bankers than shot to death by an insane criminal. Your solution is a far worse problem.
How about peacefully blocking the doors to their office? Gets the message across and doesn't involve taking away some kid's dad.
The reason America is f'ed is everything is so black and white. "I'll just sit here and watch American Idol until it gets real bad. Then I'll kill 100 people." How about finding the middle ground?
If bankers and regulators break the law, they knowingly take on the risk of punishment by prosecutor or vigilante. Whichever happens to walk the beat.
Excellent point, however after about an hour of blocking the entrance people with guns will show up and if all other means are exhausted to remove me they will fire the first shot. Overpower thy enemy has long been the official hallmark of our nation state, I think a little latitude is due when the same sentiment is echoed in the blogoshere. We'll see who overpowers who in the long run...
You twit. If the banker breaks the law then he still gets taken away from his kids. The logic of your entire post is infantile.
Two Words - NATIONALIZE IT
-1
Yes
Yes: This is a liquidity crisis, has been and will continue to be until the Grand Capitulation
Yes: Collectively - the nation's financial system is insolvent.
Yes: We are in a negative feedback loop and it will only get worse.
"Grand Capitulation"; I like it. In my mind this is the time when no one wants "financial assets" of any kind, preferring "real assets". In other words, the total destruction of trust. Trust is the absolute base building block of any economic system. Without trust, organized economic activity cannot be sustained. It's simple, really. This is also the reason for my rants about the judicial system, private property protections, capital flight, etc.
There it is! Refuse to participate at every level.
The argument boils down to, "we're drawing emergency funds from the FED because we're insolvent, but if you disclose we're insolvent, people will spread rumors that we're insolvent."
TCH BOARD. (Good Quality Individuals)
James Dimon
(TCH Board Chairman)
Chairman & CEO
JPMorgan Chase
Kenneth D. Lewis
CEO and President
Bank of America
Kelly S. King
CEO
BB&T Corporation
Robert Kelly
CEO
The Bank of New York Mellon
Masaaki Tanaka
President & CEO
Union Bank of California, N.A.
Vikram Pandit
CEO
Citigroup
Ellen Alemany
Chief Executive Officer
RBS Americas & Citizens Financial Group
Ralph W. Babb Jr.
Chairman & CEO
Comerica Incorporated
Seth Waugh
CEO
Deutsche Bank Americas
Paul J. Lawrence
President & CEO
HSBC Bank USA
Henry L. Meyer III
Chairman, President & CEO
KeyCorp
James E. Rohr
Chairman & CEO
PNC Bank
Teresa M. Ressel
CEO, UBS Securities LLC
UBS Investment Bank
Richard K. Davis
President & CEO
U.S. Bancorp
John G. Stumpf
President & CEO
Wells Fargo Bank
I can't help but ponder...
During the Boston Tea Party (not to be confused with the lame Saturday afternoon BBQ's on FAUX News) American patriots destroyed 342 chests of tea by dumping it into the harbor. Now, adjusted for inflation, just how many ATM machines, retail branchs and regional corporate headquarters of TBTF banks would need to be firebombed or otherwise razed to the ground to equal the origianal Boston Tea Party?
CONgress and the rest of the jacklegs better start prosecuting these scumbags before the wheels really come off...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYGmX85sB4c&feature=channel
Nice. Haven't heard that tune in a good long time. Les rules.
When you turn on the light, all the ZOMBIES will be revealed.
The simple reaction to the threat from the TBTF banks is to call their bluff. Besides, the stress tests have placed all of these insitiutions in the "well capitalized" category, and there's little reason to beleive they are insolvent. Right? With an economy in "recovery mode", survival is essentially assured. In addition, the FDIC has depositor backs covered.
The reality is that the bank CEO's likely fear being thrown in jail with Uncle Ben moreso than their banks being targeted for a run. These banks apparently have a whole lot to hide from the general public... and I would suspect going down the money trail at the Fed would reveal something fraudulently omitted from 10-K, 10-Q, or even S-8 reports. These folks are scared... and so are Uncle Ben and Turbo Timmy.
Uncle Ben went the wrong direction with these miscreants. Instead of giving the TBTF "banks" free loans, he should have allocated those resources to the FDIC and let the unwinding begin.
That might be what he does anyway.
Damn The Torpedo's; Full Speed Ahead!!!!
So what's wrong with a fascist system collapsing?
Humans will always choose pain later over pain now. Having said that, thinking humans begin to evaluate the scope of the pain to be experienced. Once future pain is perceived to be much greater than immediate pain, I think the choice changes. This is the essence of revolution.
The liberty that is my birthright is closer within my grasp than it has been at any other time in my 52 years.
That's why most people are numb to the situation we're in. It's insidious. And the elite want to keep it that way.
Trade in your dollars for gold.
and ofcourse AK47s
As long as they're gold-plated.
We have at least one Senator with a commond mind:
"People are not buying these concepts that are completely foreign to America," Inhofe said. "We're almost reaching a revolution in this country."
http://www.chickashanews.com/local/local_story_239102559.html
Two thoughts:
1. This is an admission on the part of these banks that the losses were merely papered over. They have now admitted it. Nothing has been fixed. So, it's all just duct tape and baling wire. Of course, most posters here knew this long ago. The question is now what do we do about it and that brings me to point 2.
2. I know it has been said by others more eloquent than me, but these bankers have no qualms whatsoever about destroying the US taxpayer. We need to approach them as they are approaching us. That means no business with them whatsoever. NONE. We all know who they are.
If millions of people will attend tea parties, they sure as hell can boycott these pigmen. It is time. It is past time. We cannot count on the new NWO administration that replaced the old NWO administration to do a bloody thing. We are going to have to do it ourselves. Stop doing business with the pigmen. Start working your representatives. Most Congresspimps are too stupid to understand. More than a few, once they do, will be outraged.
It's time to take our country back from these pigs. NOW!
How is this anything other than treason?
Tumblingdice,
The word TREASON has rumbled in my head every time i think about pauldon and bernake letting Lehman fail instead of giving them bank holding status and a 6 billion dollar loan, and giving AIG an 85BILLION the day after Lehman went down (knowing all the affiliates and subsidiaries and IB"s that had won a big bet on Lehman's demise and then knowing that our country was footing the bill for paulson and bernake rigging this bet), watching them lobbying for TARP and insist that they didn't have any means to help Lehman, but they had THREE WEEKS to lobby for TARP! ONE day of honesty, asking for authority to unwind failed LEH, MER, MS, GS, and C and letting the market close for a few weeks would have been honest, and we could have been working out of this at this point in time.
Instead, the whole world knows that AMERICA has printed money and borrowed to allow bankrobbers to steal money from the future of AMERICA to keep their criminal machine in tact....TREASON is the only fitting word. AND BOTH BUSH and OBAMA are ultimately responsible since they both annointed these measures.
Spitzer tried this already.
http://www.theclearinghouse.org/docs/000917.pdf
16 June, 1788, at the Virginia Ratification Convention:
Mr. GEORGE MASON. Mr. Chairman, gentlemen say there is no new power given by this clause. Is there any thing in this Constitution which secures to the states the powers which are said to be retained? Will powers remain to the states which are not expressly guarded and reserved? I will suppose a case. Gentlemen may call it an impossible case, and suppose that Congress will act with wisdom and integrity. Among the enumerated powers, Congress are to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, and to pay the debts, and to provide for the general welfare and common defence; and by that clause (so often called the sweeping clause) they are to make all laws necessary to execute those laws. Now, suppose oppressions should arise under this government, and any writer should dare to stand forth, and expose to the community at large the abuses of those powers; could not Congress, under the idea of providing for the general welfare, and under their own construction, say that this was destroying the general peace, encouraging sedition, and poisoning the minds of the people? And could they not, in order to provide against this, lay a dangerous restriction On the press? Might they not even bring the trial of this restriction within the ten miles square, when there is no prohibition against it? Might they not thus destroy the trial by jury? Would they not extend their implication? It appears to me that they may and will. And shall the support of our rights depend on the bounty of men whose interest it may be to oppress us? That Congress should have power to provide for the general welfare of the Union, I grant. But I wish a clause in the Constitution, with respect to all powers which are not granted, that they are retained by the states. Otherwise, the power of providing for the general welfare may be perverted to its destruction.
By the way the last bear just capitulated, RBS Bob was stopped out.
Knew they were goin' pump it long enough to get 'em.
He should have kept his 1022cash for 4 days QT.
Will the last bagholder please screw in the light?
I have already emptied my account from the bank, but the gave it to me in $100's. I need to exchange them for singles, as one can wipe 99 time more.
Kill'em all. Let the ghosts of JP Morgan and the Medici's sort them out.
There's a Hard F*ucking luck part to this. The only thing that will bring down these banks are the past and present business decisions of said institutions. Nothing else. Transparency harms them in no way whatsover.
They are twisting reality, much like an abusive relationship.
"They are twisting reality, much like an abusive relationship."
Yes, we are the dysfunctional family, afraid that if we tell dad he is an Alcoholic, everything will fall apart. But everthing is already shit...
We already have nothing to lose by confronting the truth.
Message 50001 -
"Funny, we can shoot pirates from a rolling ship deck and save a Captain held hostage but we'll be damned if we can't stand up to a bank that holds the American taxpayers hostage."
The SEALS are what we need about now at the steps of the FED.
They will spread a rumour, and Goldman/Fed will tank the market and say
"look you can't do this!!! WE told you...so back the f*** off"
Agreed. I have the hedge bets placed that in order to stop these tidal waves from cresting, there will soon be an ordered takedown of the current bubbles being created. This will serve to shut the public up (or shift the focus), and allow the backroom players to finally cash in. Also would create outrage about this being caused by greed again, and the need for more central organization/regulation.
Could be wrong. Not sure I want to be right, really.
They can tank the market any time they want to. There's nothing to lose by forcing the issue.They tanked it Sept 15th by drawing down all the money market funds and setting off everyones sell and stop losses and the FED LIED about it.
http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/market-movers/2009/02/11/kanjorski-...
Look at Jim Willies chart. They are draining the american economy of money. Any time you do this it creates a depression. PERIOD. I say we have a naval battle while we still got some water in the bathtub because the plan is depression anyway.
There was a little article in Twincities.com in Feb. where the CEO of USBancorp told a lecture lunch crowd, that treasury instructed all participants in TARP to tell the public one thing, but to do another...he said that they were told that the public was to be told that the TARP money was for lending, but in reality, the purpose of the money was for the TARP recipients to buy smaller firms to be a part of the Darwinian cleansing necessary at this time.
Remember how both Paulson and Bernake told us all in press conference after press conference, that the money needed to be given to banks for lending?
I don't know how this article alone, hasn't been used as evidence to put both paulson and bernake in jail for treason.
Ya absolutely. It's readily apparent from Willies chart that they are simply doing a controlled monetary squeeze with the intention of fleecing.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/willie082009.html
There's nothing darwinian about it. It's simply taking peoples stuff.
I mean think about it. Money has to be given to the banks so they can lend? Isn't that precisely what a treasury does? You create it out of thin air give it to the banks and they start lending it out. The banks don't get money from that for a while till the payments start coming in but the mere fact that the FED who is the source of ALL money stands up and asks for MONEY for the banks is rediculous in a type of way that rediculous has never even bothered to visit before.Of course you throw in the credit default swaps, corrupted SEC and corrupted ratings agency and you can pretty much strangle anything you want to strangle and devour the corpse. This is in fact reverse darwinisim as the sick are eating the healthy.
You know things are just swell when Bloomberg trots out Townsend to tell everyone that their deposits at banks are safe.
Clearing House Association aka Primary Dealers
the more they make noise about it the more sheople start thinking that something is REALLY wrong here and that they - the sheople simply have been f***ed
TYLER... can we get a poll going seeing how many people actually think the Fed will get this ruiling rejected...????
The worm is turning. Keep up the great work you're doing ZH!
There will eventually be a run on the banks, but not because of solvency concerns. Within a few months people will be pulling dollars out of their banks because they no longer trust the dollar. They will pull dollars out in droves to turn those dollars into something secure, like gold or commodities.
i see a continued slow-bleeder run due to everyday living expenses; ordinary folks tapping into their savings.
Hey, there are a lot of credit unions that would gladly open a new account for any of us!!!!
Honest question here folks, but are they any better than the banks? I really don't have enough information to know the truth of this.
It depends on the credit union and the bank. I like my credit union. It's small, friendly, competent, and generally fast but it's a long way from where I live.
My bank which, unfortunately, was taken over by First Republic (aka Merrill aka BoA) about a year or two ago, is still a wonderful bank that still has small-bank service. It's small, friendly, competent, and usually even faster than my credit union. I know everyone who works there and they know me even though I only visit a couple of times a year and am hardly a big customer. But, knowing that they are now part of Merrill/BoA makes me want to take several showers if I even think about them.
My experience with BoA, on the other hand, has been generally negative. They're ok but I've almost always had to wait for transactions and the ones that were non-routine were frustrating. YMMV.
Dear Mr. Nelson,
I hope you meet an untimely end, cancer, whatever, it matters not. What you should do is absolve your citizenship. In the US we cannot have rules for banks that are relevant for us and not relevant for you. You want the status quo because you are a thief and a liar.
Does not every depositor in these institutions have an interest in this case...a viable class action for sure. Here's another, easier, quick "class action" - WITHDRAW your deposits from these banks!! It either goes into better institutions or we have our bank holiday and things get rolling to overthrow the corrupt Wall Street-Washington grip on this country.
The whole system has already collapsed. We need a new currency, and the sooner we create it the sooner the recovery will start.
Naw, Plan B-Z: Lie, Lie, Lie some more. It is not in the interests of those at the top to tell the truth. Isn't it funny that 99% of people have no idea how the main glue that holds the world together (financial system) works? "We Are All Keynesians Now" - I just read that as "We Are All Mushrooms Now"
Most people who visit this site have a clue what is going on but it is hard to get the average person to get interested. Ignorance is bliss.... until the truck comes..
Stop doing business with them? You can't! IRS, black budgets, the printing of money through to distribution,,,
All the influx of moneys to the banking sector tells me that they anticipate a run on the banks and they now have the funds in place to back it up.
I do not want to see a crash. Extraordinary things have to be done to save our banking system.
If you believe in the USA and do not want to farm, dig for food, starve, then you will let some things be, or, let a sleeping dog lye.
Peace
i.e. let the sleeping dog lie ?
no, LYE!
"the crucial ingredient...once it mixed with the melted fat of bodies, the white soapy discharge crept into the river..."
http://www.you3b.com/watch/1430
this is your pain this is your burning hand America.
Is that you Barney? Timmy? Ben, is thAt you?
I'm already a hungry potato farmer with a lazy German Shepherd, so it makes no difference to me if all hell breaks loose. Too bad for you if you can't cowboy up.
As for the IRS, I believe all Americans should take a page out of the book of our esteemed Treasury Secretary and just say "no".
I'm already a hungry potato farmer with a lazy German Shepherd, so it makes no difference to me if all hell breaks loose. Too bad for you if you can't cowboy up.
Classic!
"just say "no"." been there, doing just that for several years.
"Simplify, simplify, simplify." Just read Emerson's portrait of Thoreau. One great man reflecting on the genius of another.
One can simultaneously believe in the USA and be distrustful of it's government. The dog in question is rabid and must be put down.
At the very least seriously audit Ben's world or better yet, abolish it once and for all. I'd rather dig for MY food than be a slave for their food.