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Radiation At Fukushima Water Jumps To Over 1 Sievert, 10 Million Times Higher Than "Normal", Plutonium Tests Ordered For The First Time
And the hits just keep on coming. Earlier today, TEPCO announced that the radiation in the water pool of reactor #2 had been measured at 1,000 millisieverts/h (1 sievert/h) - the highest reading so far recorded since the Fukushima disaster started. As a reminder, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency says a single dose of 1,000 millisieverts is enough to cause haemorrhaging, which a ten hour exposure to this dose is enough to result in death. "The situation is serious. They have to pump away this water on the floor, get rid of it to lower the radiation," said Robert Finck, radiation protection specialist at the Swedish Radiation Safety Authority, speaking before the operator expressed doubt about the high reading. "It's virtually impossible to work, you can only be there for a few minutes. It's impossible to say how long it will take before they can gradually take control." From Kyodo: "Plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. said the concentration of radioactive substances of the puddle was 10 million times higher than that seen usually in water in a reactor core, but later decided to reanalyze the data because it found some errors." And keep in mind this is the idiocy that is resulting after last week the brilliant geniuses at TECPO came up with the plan to water each and every reactor: now it's time to remove the water, but the water just happens to be so radioactive, nobody can remove it. In the meantime the leak into the ocean keeps getting worse: "Radioactive iodine-131 at a concentration 1,850.5 times the legal limit was detected in a seawater sample taken around 330 meters south of the plant, near a drainage outlet of the four troubled reactors, compared with 1,250.8 times the limit found Friday, the agency said." And while Zero Hedge has long believed that the only possible outcome here is the Plan Z concrete entombment, which will guarantee an 80 km non-inhabitable radius around Fukushima in perpetuity, finally the "experts" are warming up to this idea: per Reuters: "Experts say there is still too much heat in the reactor cores and spent fuel at the Fukushima plant for a similar last-ditch solution to be considered yet."
More from Reuters:
LEVELS 10 MILLION TIMES ABOVE NORMAL
The latest scare came as engineers were trying to pump radioactive water out of a turbine unit after it was found in buildings housing three of the reactors.
Officials at first said the water in No. 2 was found to contain 10 million times the amount of radioactive iodine that is normal in the reactor, but noted the substance had a half-life of under an hour, meaning it would disappear within a day.
Later they said the element that gave the reading may have been cobalt 56, which has a half life of 77 days, and if this was the case the level of radioactivity would have been far lower.
Radiation levels in the sea off the plant rose on Sunday to 1,850 times normal, from 1,250 on Saturday, Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said.
"Ocean currents will disperse radiation particles and so it will be very diluted by the time it gets consumed by fish and seaweed," said Hidehiko Nishiyama, a senior agency official.
TOKYO RADIATION LEVELS NORMAL
The elevated radiation detected on Sunday was confined to the reactor, and radioactivity in the air beyond the evacuation zone around the plant remained in normal ranges.
In downtown Tokyo, a Reuters reading on Sunday afternoon showed ambient radiation of 0.16 microsieverts per hour, below the global average of naturally occurring background radiation of 0.17-0.39 microsieverts per hour.
Several countries have banned produce and milk from Japan's nuclear crisis zone and are monitoring Japanese seafood because of fears of radioactive contamination.
Kyodo news agency said Japan would call on World Trade Organisation members at a meeting this week not to overreact to the radiation scare and abide by rules that ban import restrictions not based on scientific grounds.
The accident has also triggered concern around the globe about the safety of nuclear power generation. U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said it was time to reassess the international atomic safety regime.
The crisis looked set to claim its first, and unlikely, political casualty. In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel's party faced defeat in a key state on Sunday, largely because of her U-turn on nuclear power.
OVERSHADOWING RELIEF EFFORT
The drama at the plant has overshadowed a relief and recovery effort from the magnitude 9.0 quake and the huge tsunami it triggered that left more than 27,100 people dead or missing in northeast Japan.
In Otsu, 70 km (42 miles) south of the stricken nuclear facility, the townsfolk are faced with livelihoods derailed by the natural disaster and now the fear of radiation in the air.
Ninety-three-year-old Kou Murata sat cross-legged on the floor of a school classroom, her home for the past fortnight. Surrounded by piles of quilts and blankets, she fretted over what was to become of her in the twilight of her life.
"I am afraid because people are leaving, and we are alone," she said, looking small and frail in a jacket decorated with snowmen.
Murata's daughter, Hisae, said the government had not helped them.
"I want to go back home, but the situation is impossible," she said. "I applied to the government to get a temporary house, but we need a certificate to say the house was destroyed. Now all the temporary houses have been taken. We thought the government would come to us, but we need to go to them."
The first opinion poll to be taken since the disaster showed the approval rating for Prime Minister Naoto Kan had edged higher, to 28.3 percent, but more than half disapproved of how the nuclear crisis had been handled.
Making things much worse is that, apparently for the first time, TEPCO has ordered tests for highly toxic and extremely lethal plutonium on the site:
As the worst atomic accident since Chernobyl entered its third week, the government said soil near the Fukushima plant would be tested for plutonium contamination. The radioactive metal was used in one of the reactors and its presence outside the plant would suggest the fuel rods were damaged.
“I’ve said the situation won’t immediately improve, and high radiation water is one of the unexpected things that I had said might occur,” Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said at a briefing in Tokyo today. “We want to continue cooling, and establish a direction toward ending the situation.”
Soil samples have been taken and will be tested for plutonium, Edano told reporters.
Radiation leaks have contaminated vegetables in regions around the plant and sparked scares over tap water in Tokyo, 227 kilometers (140 miles) southwest of the Tokyo Electric Power Co. Dai-Ichi power station.
Which of course means that up until now nobody had been measuring for plutonium fall out. Brilliant.
And while nobody really knows anything that is happening at the plant, one thing we can be sure of is that the latest surge in radiation by 10E6, will cause Joe LaVorgna to hike his GDP forecast for Japan by a comparable amount.
Update: Now we get this hilariously farcical interlude:
The operator of Japan's stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant said on Monday a very high radiation reading that had sent workers fleeing the No. 2 reactor was erroneous.
Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) vice-president Sakae Muto apologised for Sunday's error, which added to alarm inside and outside Japan over the impact of contamination from the complex which was hit by an earthquake and tsunami on March 11.
In other news, radiation burns suffered by three TEPCO workers while puddling along reactor 2 was just due to unfortunate combination of too much sun and little to no tanning lotion. We are confident repair on Reactor 2 will proceed immediately...by mutant 3 eyed ill-tempered seabass. Or was the seawater radioactivity count faulty too?
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Oh cool, you're at the plant and have a docimeter?
What are your readings?
TYLER is not at the plant and NEITHER ARE YOU.
So by your own rule, YOU should STFU!
I do have a stupidometer and every time one of your posts comes up, it hits 10 million times normal also
Yes, every single person who is not at the plant should shut up.
Go fuck yourself, you discussion scuttling troll. You aren't wanted. GET OUT.
sorry, mosely, I'm not going anywhere.
As long as I'm here, idiots like you won't be safe from getting embarrassed for your bullshit. There is no safe refuge from me for liars, prevaricaters, moonbats, and general idiots like you. If it doesn't want the hose, it places the lotion in the bucket. Or to translate, stop lying and bullshitting if you don't wanna get called out...you ever think to try that?
you must be scared to death of how things will be after 6 days from now when everybody in Tokyo is not dead or evacuated.
He might not be scared to death if Tokyo is not evacuated in 6 days but when the japs start growing penis' on their forheads that will be unnerving.
You embarrass no one but yourself, and anyone who is associated with you.
What's it like to be drawn to a place where you are unwanted? You like for ladies to step on your balls with stiletto heels too?
You are the one that has been lying since day fucking one. You are the one getting each and every one of his comments junked off the board. Face it, no one cares what you think, but they are ALL tired of your stink.
Go back to the oil drum, you hooligan.
LOL...I used to get a kick out of RNR making a fool out of you; guess I will have fun with you now.
I'm not unwanted here by anybody but you and your clown brigade.
There is no escape, my young apprentice...no safe refuge for liars and idiots like you so long as I am around. You are my bitch now. Look at how you act, like a total bitch, trying to get me to leave, telling me you and your "friends" don't like me. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...do you think I fucking CARE if someone as insignificant as you likes me? You are less of a concern than a piece of gum discarded on a sidewalk.
You have been shown up by everybody with any real expertise on any topic imaginable. You are a fucking FOOL and an ignorant and you have to live with that yoke on your shoulders just like the yolk in your face. You should really hear what people offline have to say about you. Suffice it to say that it's not pretty. You are roundly derided as a retard.
"10 million times higher than that seen usually in water in a reactor core"
What is the usual amount in water in a reactor core (not storage pool).
What if it were a mere 100,00 times?
Would that be acceptable?
As far as the U.S. goes, none of this will really matter.
Because it is spring break, and all the Wall St. traders can think about right now is obtaining the latest, newest, soft porn version of "Girls Gone Wild".....
Dear God! Has the radiation has reached American girls' boobies?
Guess they didn't take their potassium iodide.
It appears to be only the nipple portion of the boobies.
TEPCO Spokesman: "The longerterm effects are minimal as the nipple's can now be used as flash lights or 'headlights' if you will."
A wonderful example of our basic fundamental hypocrisy and underlying psychosis. An image of the entire breast can be published except the nipple. I've seen this in newspapers, magazines, TV etc. Take a gander at the mags found in the checkout line at your grocery store and then try explaining this insanity to your three year old in the child's seat of the grocery cart.
So it is the nipple that makes it "bad" or "pornographic", but not the skin, flesh and fat that supports the nipple. Now I understand the idea behind pasties. When you pull back and examine the inconsistencies in thought and action, you can't help but be amazed at the total madness on display 24/7/365.
And we say we are more advanced than any other animal on Earth. Ludicrous. Our machines mean nothing if we can't get over nipples.
What I find insane are the people who allow their kids to watch the nightly news with the killing, rapes, murders & wars, but they won't allow them to look at a naked woman for fear of them becoming a perv.
What I found amusing was the super bowl wardrobe "malfunction" was such an outrage, but the erection meds advertised around it wasn't. Insane.
It is bizarre indeed!
An erect nipple can indicate sexual arousal (it can also simply mean she is cold). The possible display of signs of sexual arousal is what is being covered up. Seriously. Community standards and all.
does anyone know how radiation affects breast implants? do they melt? anyone?
Probably makes 'em grow...
Maybe TexDenim would know?
Of course, America has become so wild that even if these girls's boobs were not starred out, you can see so much more than that from a standard "star" website, where what used to be X-rated porn is shown for free.
One caveat re the US economy, yes the only major effect I see is to put a possibly major crimp in BHO's nuclear plans for the US. Up, fossil fuels, down, nukes.
Junking you and this thread on juvenile rubbish.
Yes!!
Gratuitous tits are not allowed!
lol
Please clarify your disgust at this fact. Some people here may be confused.
one thousand, ten thousand, ten million, what's the fucking difference. it's hot and not improving is it? i'm going surfing while i can.
No need to correct just give it time.
It's melting down big time bitchezz.
Ok, now I'm starting to think they are storing weapons grade material at this site.
Is this why the USG has displayed such urgency?
Any thoughts about this possibility?
Riiiight. JAPAN, the one nation that has experienced a nuclear attack and bans such weapons...has weapons-grade plutonium secretly stored at a power plant.
Do you lose sleep over this BS you spout?
The MOX fuel in Reactor 3 is weapons grade, it comes from retired ICBMs, part of the ironically named "megatons to megawatts" program, which will now be renamed as "megatons to millisieverts".
No, it's not "weapons grade". Weapons grade plutonium is >95% pu239. MOX typically consists of up to 5% pu239, mixed with natural u238 and a small percentage of u235 (usually residual left over from the enrichment process).
If you ingested 1 microgram of plutonium you'd be dead. 5% of weapons grade plutonium is plenty to be concerned about.
true...only problem is that ISN'T WHAT YOU JUST SAID.
You said that the MOX was "weapons grade" Pu239; i mean it's RIGHT THERE in your fucking post.
You got called out on that bullshit and you think you can save the statement, somehow transform it into something OTHER than bullshit (through ZH alchemy) by saying that, "well, it's something to be concerned about"?!??!
WTF is the matter with you? YOU WERE WRONG. Admit your fucking error and stop bullshitting.
You first, hypocrite.
Apologize to EVERY SINGLE POSTER on this board, or get the fuck out.
Fuck off, seriously, dude...this obsession you have over me is getting a bit scary.
You're stinging still from the asswhippings you've taken on other topics and you think you can get back at me by making a fool out of yourself like this?
I haven't been wrong.
Shut up Trav.
I'm not obsessed with you. You get the same treatment as every other loser troll I encounter.
I have not once had my "ass whipped" on any topic, because I have never been wrong, save where I acknowledged such.
Go kill yourself, you fuck.
You are shriller than most of the bitches I've dumped...change your tampon, mosely. ROTFL
Does this mean when the levels match what was just reported that you will then admit your error as well?! I highly doubt it.
Can you show me where I claimed what the levels were?
the true levels are somewhere north of your IQ, but slightly south of room temperature
:/
lol
"10 million times higher than that seen usually in water in a reactor core"
What is the usual amount in water in a reactor core (not storage pool).
What if it were a mere 100,00 times?
Would that be acceptable?
"10 million times higher than that seen usually in water in a reactor core"
What is the usual amount in water in a reactor core (not storage pool).
What if it were a mere 100,00 times?
Would that be acceptable?
Are you Harry Wanger gone nuclear? Cause you've got that same pain in the ass personality.
Stop watching TV and read wikipedia. It really helps.
During and after the end of World War II, scientists working on the Manhattan Project and other nuclear weapons research projects conducted studies of the effects of plutonium on laboratory animals and human subjects.[68] Animal studies found that a few milligrams of plutonium per kilogram of tissue is a lethal dose.[69]
In the case of human subjects, this involved injecting solutions containing (typically) five micrograms of plutonium into hospital patients thought to be either terminally ill, or to have a life expectancy of less than ten years either due to age or chronic disease condition.[68] This was reduced to one microgram in July 1945 after animal studies found that the way plutonium distributed itself in bones was more dangerous than radium.[69]
Eighteen human test subjects were injected with plutonium without informed consent. The tests were used to create diagnostic tools to determine the uptake of plutonium in the body in order to develop safety standards for working with plutonium.[68]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium
"The MOX fuel in Reactor 3 is weapons grade, it comes from retired ICBMs"
link?
(just curious)
What is MOX:
http://www.nirs.org/factsheets/basicmoxinfo.htm
That is correct. After the Soviet Union came apart, the US/Russian government along with the IAEA decided that it was a good idea to take retired warheads and use them to make MOX fuel. They took the cores out of ICBMs, bombs, cruise missiles, etc which were not part of Russia's active stockpile and began mixing the fuel with natural uranium left over from the enrichment process. This was later sold on the open market for use in commercial reactors throughout the US. It is a great way to eliminate the proliferation risk associated with decaying weapons stockpiles. I believe the US has been actively doing this as well for her own retired stockpile, but I don't have any references.
The actual story can be found on the wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatons_to_Megawatts_Program
Thanks
(and US Uncut)
psycho NK and evil China right next door.
Nukes have been their only deterrent.
Probable more like it.
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Oops... The sky isn't falling, but they're lying, gosh darn it!
Sock Puppet much?
I've got a one way ticket to Japan with your name on it.
Hey Phizzy you're perspective is skewed. That's not the sky falling, it's the road rising to meet you as you fall flat on your face yet again. The broken nose should give you a clue one of these days....
10 million times anything is awesome. Ben is jealous he can't ramp m1 by 10 mm
Too bad this didn't happen in D.C. or Detroit. What a bunch of worthless leeches.
Too bad this didn't happen in your backyard...
Notes here on the radiation.
1 Sv is enough to cause mild radiation sickness.
2 Sv will cause acute radiation sickness.
5 Sv is the LD/50 (50% of people exposed to this will die).
Anything above this is almost certainly fatal.
These numbers apply to acute dosage, not chronic dosages.
The problem with this information is the definition of radiation sickness is symptoms that occur within a short time period after exposure. Other illnesses that develop later, such as leukemia, cancers, birth defects in children are outside of the scope of this data because they cannot be proven to be directly as a consequence, even though exposure raises the probability.
This is why people can argue that there were only 28 deaths as a direct result of the accident at Chernobyl.
++++.
It is simply not credible they release data like this without checking it first knowing the concern it would cause. Not possible. 10 million times reactor water normal, 1000millisieverts... you don't release that data without confirming it isn't a mistake.
That they released the data tells you they believed it was accurate.
The manner in which they have been managing the goings on at the plant where they leave a great deal open to speculation means that things there are in a much worse state than you can imagine. Otherwise it would be better to reveal all, even bad, unless it was too bad.
And you gotta wonder when Japanese PM Kan said he was not optomistic that they could bring this under control and that they were trying to not make it worse.
LOL...this mental contortion is spectacular.
They release benign data, you call it a lie.
Your selection bias is astounding; ONLY information which is bad can, by definition, be true.
They have been lying to us for weeks. They said the areas around the reactor are "under survey" and refuse to release the numbers. They have said things were fine when they weren't . They have said various plans have a chance of being magical fixes, and they weren't.
Sound familiar, government shill faggot?
No, that doesn't sound at all like what they've said.
They never said anything was fine, TYLER and YOU said that they said that. They never said anything was a magic fix, TYLER and YOU said that they said that.
The real problem here is that you can't fucking separate what YOU said from what THEY said. Hell, yesterday the PM says shit is NOT under control - a TRUTHFUL STATEMENT - and that was similarly unacceptable to you morons. He was "lying and evading."
That's the reality here; you believe NOTHING they say EXCEPT if it confirms your apocalypse selection bias. So in the absence of what you regard as believable evidence EITHER WAY, you just fill in the blanks between your ears with whatever makes you feel better.
Then you come to ZH for group affirmation.
Yes, we are all liars here. Why stick around?
Go back to the Echo Drum where your own opinions are reinforced beyond the power of logic or evidence to dislodge.
whatsamatter, bitch, you went over to TOD with your self-proclaimed brilliance and they laughed at you too?
Seems to be a common occurrence. Yeah, fuck all those physicists and geologists, TMOSELY will set them straight.
Do you know that in one of your recent arguments you were in reality talking to a guy who works at fucking CERN and is a doctorate physicist? He tried to set you straight, to no avail.
Cliff Claven you are, ma'am.
Trav are you suggesting that they have changed their habits of releasing data later than usual and now have decided to release data before it is verified?! Seems unlikely this would be the case. The pattern of behavior so far would suggest otherwise. I would propose the situation is becoming more out of control in many ways which would explain information being released before it is double checked. Basically the chain of command is falling apart because of the graveness of the situation.
Let's think through this together-
So when BAD news comes out it is automatically true.
if NOT bad news comes out it is automatically false.
Sound pretty close so far? If the PM says things are "not under control" he is lying and evading and assumed to have said precisely the opposite?
You are REACHING for a basis upon which to support your selection bias, ok? Stay agnostic and let the facts come; they will.
Using your methods more people than neccessary will die and that to me is unnacceptable. While I can agree that some here will automatically assume the worst but there are others here who are not part of the doomer crowd and are more sensible thinkers. My point earlier still remains. They have not been forthright with their information and as the days go by the information has gotten progressively worse. Their inaction and delay in releasing pertinient data (hopefully true) has and will cause in all likely hood more people to suffer.
My methods?
We are all observers here. Nothing of what we say is going to materially affect the outcome unless the gov't actually read my posts and took my advice for fire suppression.
My methods involve ruthless acquisition of facts upon which to base EDUCATED analysis. I hate blind guesses. If I were in charge, I'd have dosimeters up the yin yang and they'd be on the internet.
For better or worse, nothing is accomplished by suppressing the truth.
I don't agree that the situation has gotten progressively worse; it hasn't. It has flatlined for about the last week, since they decided to start spraying water. Now, the flatline may still be at "pretty fucking bad" but it hasn't literally gotten worse.
"....unless the gov't actually read my posts and took my advice for fire suppression.
My methods involve ruthless acquisition of facts upon which to base EDUCATED analysis."
Try not to break your arm patting yourself on the fucking back.
How can you say with a straight face that things haven't gotten worse?! In the past week the water has become too dangerous to give to babies, milk and leafy vegetables have become unaccepatble, and Tokyo has run out of bottled water?!?! If you were in charge the population would be cooked before they even had a chance to leave.
no...the leafy vegetables were fucked at the first venting of steam. Ditto for the Tokyo water. That happened more than a week ago.
So Trav,what is your take on the situation? I think people here are just reacting to a pretty big spike in the reading's.Even if Tepco is off by a factor of 1000,it's still dangerous is it not? and if they are indeed off by a factor of 1000,what does that say of the quality of the info. released? And what about the "forgetfulness' of official's regarding testing for plutonium? They are just getting around to it? Does that really sound right to you,it does'nt sound just a "bit" off? If this thing were in the middle of nowhere and no possible danger to surrounding people,sure,take your time,but that is not the case.people of Japan are depending on the gov't to issue timely,accurate info. so that they may make an informed desion.Remember,all was well till the fucking thing's BLEW THE FUCK UP ! How can anyone have any trust in this situation, or any trust in the official story? Ligthen up,people here are concerned
my take is that this is a total clusterfuck...I've said that from the beginning or at least once the issue of SFPs became apparent.
Sure it sounds right...the disaster planning was not in place to deal with this type of accident. It's simply a matter of incompetence not malevolence. I don't think that facts become available in the timeframe people expect them to be...I think this notion that we all can know wtf is going on there from minute-to-minute is unrealistic.
But, in the meantime in the absence of any fact, ZH is here to fill in all kinds of wild apocalypse bullshit. Tmosely even said that everyone in Tokyo would be dead or evacuated by 6 days from now.
Perhaps it was neither. Failure to plan for a disaster of this magnitude is regrettable, but also understandable. Keep in mind that prior to this event, the most powerful earthquake in Japanese recorded history was the one on 9/1/1923 of 7.9 Richter magnitude. The recent 9.0 quake is thought to be the fifth most powerful in human knowledge on the whole planet. Failure to plan for such a catastrophe is not necessarily a matter of incompetence, although it is easy to label it so in restrospect.
As an engineer, albeit in a completely unrelated field, I say with certainty that not planning for disaster is indeed incompetence.
In particular, locating site backup power in a tsunami vulnerable location for a nuclear power plant is particularly reckless. That site was planned to withstand an 8 magnitude quake, yet it withstood a 9. That was good work. Then the site received a 15ish meter tsunami but the wall was only built for a 5meter tsunami. That was apalling. Furthermore, you NEVER locate your backup power gennies underground when you have this risk. That is reckless.
I agree with this, but I speak from the position of being a pretty ruthlessly thorough contingency planner, by nature.
I like to leave NO loose ends. When I say fail safe I mean the shit is still running after the sun explodes.
In a case such as this one, the statistical risk was low but the penalty high, therefore expected value placed this at a threshold necessary to be addressed.
But we hear from nuke plant workers here about how backup diesels were FUBAR'd here at US plants; the crankshafts broke during testing...wtf. This level of "incompetence" is criminal.
I could not have participated in Fukushima knowing that the outcome if terrestrial power was cutoff and diesel backups failed was total catastrophe.
But I have raised the issue of failure in management meetings in the past and it does NOT go over well. Nothing but rosy groupthink does.
Sadly, I agree. I have had experiences doing risk assessments with a few different large corporations and usually once the product/plan/whatever is sold, groupthink takes over and everyone gets into the circlejerk line. Any naysayers are usually shot dead on the spot. It still behooves me to think that even during this likely groupthink excercise, nobody thought about the consequences of losing backup or made any preparations whatsoever to mitigate the risks. This is fucking engineering 101!
Thank's for the reply. I just find it irresponsible to not start moving these people away(much further than 30 km) barring any 'good' new's-i.e. the plant has totally stopped emitting anything more than commercial electricity. To the contrary,every single day since the problem's started there has been a ramp-up of bad new's-thing's are getting worse,not better. Is'nt it time to sound the alarm? I think ZH is expressing frustration that no-one has pulled the switch yet,it's not group-think,it's a reasonable response
Show me where I said that, dick brain.
I said that levels of 2mSv/hr are dangerous, and lethal within a few months. I said Tokyo will be evacuated IF AND WHEN the wind blows fallout in that direction.
But hey, we are all liars here, and we all do nothing but abuse poor, mistreated Trav, so perhaps Trav ought to head back to whereever the fuck it is that he came from and never come back to this pit that is controlled by the master of doom and lies, Tyler Durden, and his big mean lackey, tmosley.
don't try to back out now, bitch...and don't make me go and link to your comment where you SPECIFICALLY SAID "within a week tops, everybody in Tokyo will be dead or evacuated." It's right over on the Fukushima thread.
In fact, I bet you when I read it that it wouldn't happen. Don't pretend like you didn't say it or that you didn't read my reply. Your obsession over me which leads you to read and respond to everything I write and follow me around like a puppy dog means that your claim that you didn't know about any of this less credible than anything that has ever come out of TEPCO
What Trav said.
Well said Whoop. This is certainly the time to think about the people's safety above all else.
"ONLY information which is bad can, by definition, be true"
So you mean that TEPCO is not a vested interrest with maybe possibly some careers and lucrative stock-options at stake? Do you really think they can be expected to behave honestly and objectivly in this situation?
OF COURSE bad information is more realistically true then happy happy joy joy bullshit. Your objectivity-bias is staggering. The world does not work according to your scientific standards. Learn som political science, check out Rational Institutionalism. A good antidote for your naive worldview. Engineers.... pffffffffff
You do realize that you have just made your own selection bias unassailable, right? You have put yourself into a logic trap.
I mean I've never seen someone just come right out and defend sloppy thinking and total lack of objectivity like you just did. I don't know whether to congratulate you or just insult you. Very rarely am I just truly stunned by illogic.
Well, you are the one who expects everyone to have a unbiased objective attitude towards information coming from a lying criminal organization. No wonder the ponzi-economy stumbles along with sheeple like you born every minute. Tell me the scientific method applies to a organization that have structural and financial incentives to lie, and I have nothing more to add.
If you honestly thought that I meant that all information in general should be valued as the worse, the more likely... Then you are probably autistic, sorry to say.
No. 1 top story on CNN.com is not the nuclear plant meltdown.
The top story is Abercrombie & Fitch selling "push-up" bras to 12-year old girls...
LOL....
(CNN) -- No stranger to controversy, U.S. retailer Abercrombie
& Fitch has come under fire for offering a push-up bikini top to
young girls.
Its "Ashley" bikini -- described as "padded" and a "push-up" -- was posted on the Abercrombie Kids website earlier this week.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/BUSINESS/03/26/abercrombie.bikini.controversy/index.html?hpt=T2
Gee, any wonder why ANF is within a hairsbreadth of 52-week highs despite everything that has happened the last two months, and major gold producers like NEM, AEM, GOLD, KGC, etc. are still waffling around at 52-week lows?
Sex sells.
Fear doesn't sell.
"Sex sells.
Fear doesn't sell."
It's evolution robo.
I think the top three are:
1. Sex
2. Fear
3. Dirty Laundry
Sex does trump everything.
Sex, drugs, guns, and destruction of the environment apparently do sell, but what does this say about a bank's focus on investments and its understanding of basic risk management or even basic PR?
From the ABN Amro website:
Risk management
As a bank, we can choose who we want to do business with – and we use that privilege to investigate how our customers handle social and ethical issues and environmental risks when considering loan applications. We review customers, loans and transactions on the basis of our policies and guidelines.
Sector policies
At ABN AMRO, we have designed sustainability policies for the various sectors in which the bank operates, e.g. forestry, mining, oil and gas, palm oil, defense industry, gambling, the sex industry and “Dutch-style” coffee shops. In addition, we have developed a policy framework for social and ethical country risks, and issued a number of statements – on the protection of human rights for instance.
http://www.abnamro.com/en/about-abn-amro/sustainability/risk-management/index.html
So wrong on so many levels-
WTF - no pics, just 'man on the street reactions' (well, mostly (ugly) women).
Teaser.
abercrombie kids - Shop Official Site - girls
(I like dog in the picture, and have to disagree with robo on this one, Mr Aber and Mr Grum are part of the symptom)
your shtick has gotten old.
Fear sells. Ask Hank Paulson, for example.
Yeah, there have been some "errors". The whole thing makes a Chinese fire drill look well organized.
Screw the ZH Plan Z concrete sarcophagus. It's time to call in Ultraman.
I remember Spectreman much more vividly. The evil gorilla guy who talked with with hands was the best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm7XQ_HtmXc
My mom purchased a can of Tuna. She noticed that it was from Thailand before she ate it and threw it away. How far is Thailand from Japan? 3-eyed Tuna, anyone?
Yes, let's all panic for no reason and marvel at our ignorance of geography.
Hint: you are sitting at a computer with internet access...
You are quickly becoming my internet hero.
Seconded.
I personally believe that some US Americans are unable to do so because some people out there in our nation don't have maps. And I believe our education, such as South Africa, the Iraq, such as...
That should clear it up, such as....the Americans don't have maps, and stuff. And us Americans should help the Japan find maps so that tuna won't kill children. That's just what I personally believe, so we can build a better nation without such Tuna.
+++
Wow, that got my head spinning like this globe I bought for $4 at the thrift store!
Thailand is right next door to Japan, you can fly between the 2 countries in about 20 minutes.
You are being sarcastic are you not?
yes.
Just a note here, I don't think it matters where the fuck Thailand is...It matters where they caught the Tuna or where the Tuna swims. Jesus. The good news is, that Tuna's probably been packed in that can since closer to the time of Chernobyl so you should be just fine. Yummy.
reading,
You said:
"where the Tuna swims"
Hope they didn't follow this Russian ship !!!!!!!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/24/3173144.htm?section=justin
The bluefin tuna are spawned east and south of Honshu each summer, then over half of each years juveniles along with some of the 1 year-olds make a 3 month swim to the US west coast and Baja.
Wonder what US checks will be done next season, how soon the results will be announced, and how tuna sales will be affected ?
Deleted
Tuna now contains enough mercury that the U.S. gove recommends it should not be eaten more than one a week by most folks and should be avoided altogether by pregnant women or women trying to get pregnant.
Canned tuna is in my emergency stores, if the shit hits the fan, I'll take my chances on the mercury rather than starve, but I don't eat it on a regular basis. Heavy metal poisoning is nasty shit.
someone might find out that a lot of mercury comes from coal and other industrial pollution...shhhhh
Despite TEPCO retracting the earlier report (well, sorta), numerous reports are stating that high levels of Iodine 134 have been detected in samples.
All reports from the Authorities since the beginning have been wrapped in a comforting diaper of 'don't worry', but a diaper protects the furniture, not your own skin. If you sit in it too long, you get burned. Each announcement has contained enough seeds of truth to warn anyone willing to do a little research.
Iodine 134 has a half-life of 52.6 minutes. According to a pdf available at
library.lanl.gov/cgi-bin/getfile?rc000043.pdf
the precursor is Tellurium 134, produced in the fission of U235.
This very likely means very high concentrations of fission byproducts are making the trip from the core to wherever the sample was taken in a very short period of time. As if the 'neutron beam' report wasn't clue enough of this already.
Make of that what you will. Right now I'm looking for a way to make some extra living space available to evacuees, if there is a way to get them to Michigan. The first people out of there are likely to fare best.
Edit:
Err <cough cough> what substance would that be, exactly? The diaper is beginning to emanate ammonia fumes. Enough already.
Finding i134 seems unlikely. That combined with apparent excess neutron emissions would imply criticality. But if there is criticality, the readings would be extreme. Far beyond what has been reported to now, including the 1sv in the basement. I seriously doubt this is ocurring, especially since they pumped borated water into the reactors and cooling pools.
But if they do have a criticality accident going on, the situation is truly apocalyptic for Japan.
In the absence of real information, speculation is the only possible way to assess the situation.
It seems possible that the borated solution, however much made it into the reactors through busted pipes, might simply leak back out.
Also, how to process the report of the 'neutron beam' 1.5 Km out? I don't recall them backtracking on that one yet. If it is plausible that the detector was scanned back and forth and a 'beam' was actually detected, the implication would be some fission still going on, and a path for fast neutrons to escape. I would read that as code for, "get the hell away from there".
But if there is criticality, the readings would be extreme.
You make that statement as though you know what the readings actually are. That is, since the readings aren't extreme, there is no criticality.
Here are questions of logic, not questions of fact: How do we know what the readings are? Why would we expect any of the published readings to be the truth? What do you tell all of the people on the Titanic when you know you have lifeboats for only a few?
If there was criticality, why on earth would anyone make that fact public?
Uh, am I the only one who thinks now would be a good time to get the military to start evacuating all those refugees in grade school gyms near the plant to further-away grade school gyms?
From Nassim Taleb http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/notebook.htm-
Time to understand a few facts about small probabilities [criminal stupidity of statistical science](I've received close to 600 requests for interviews on the "Black Swan" of Japan. Refused all (except for one). I think for a living & write books not interviews. This is what I have to say.)
The Japanese Nuclear Commission had the following goals set in 2003: " The mean value of acute fatality risk by radiation exposure resultant from an accident of a nuclear installation to individuals of the public, who live in the vicinity of the site boundary of the nuclear installation, should not exceed the probability of about 1x10^6 per year (that is , at least 1 per million years)".
That policy was designed only 8 years ago. Their one in a million-year accident almost occurred about 8 year later (I am not even sure if it is at best a near miss). We are clearly in the Fourth Quadrant there.
I spent the last two decades explaining (mostly to finance imbeciles, but also to anyone who would listen to me) why we should not talk about small probabilities in any domain. Science cannot deal with them. It isirresponsible to talk about small probabilities and make people rely on them, except for natural systems that have been standing for 3 billion years (not manmade ones for which the probabilities are derived theoretically, such as the nuclear field for which the effective track record is only 60 years).
You don't even need to be a statistician to realize that theoretical probabilities of real-world risk are predicated upon unreliable and sometimes doubtful epistemology. In other words, be careful who you trust.
Taleb is full of shit.
Expected value modeling does exactly this. If tail risks are improbable but the outcome is severely heavy, then they by mathematical definition carry more model weight.
Bad science ignores improbable outcomes with steep costs. Well, usually it's stupid managers who think "oh that could never happen, so I can ignore it"
Trav, honestly, have you even read one of his books?
(not that he's not full of himself or anything like that, just have you actually read the man's book(s)?)
What does this book have to do with the quotation attributed to him that i was responding to?
"10 million times higher than that seen usually in water in a reactor core"
What is the usual amount in water in a reactor core (not storage pool).
What if it were a mere 100,00 times?
Would that be acceptable?
Typical Loudtalker.
Spends wayyy too much time and trys wayy to hard trying to convince others of their point of view.
Time to ride off, save a little face and soon be be forgotten.
"10 million times higher than that seen usually in water in a reactor core"
What is the usual amount in water in a reactor core (not storage pool).
What if it were a mere 100,00 times?
Would that be acceptable?
It works well enough for aircraft design. But there are enough of them flying to give a rough verification of the numbers.
Tyler, you're such an idiot. Do you ever eat bannas? Ever stand by granite? Fly in a plane? This is the same thing. Those workers could have slipped on a banana peel and got those same injuries.
-trav7777
Do they know themselves what they are doing, what the status is, where the problems are?
Are these guys just stumbling around in the dark.
Yes.
It used to be that, to be able to use a computer, you had to know how it worked. Technology has advanced to the point that instructions can be built in for learning as you go along. Now, everybody can make computers do things and few actually know how they work.
The early computer users could fix things if their computer broke, because they knew how it worked. Today, if the computer breaks, the user has no clue. I'm thinking that nuclear technology has gotten to a similar point. The technology has become so advanced that its use has become simplified (push these buttons in this sequence and voila). So the industry can hire folks as technicians and managers who can be easily trained to know what button to push in what sequence. But if the thing breaks, they have no clue where to start responding because they have no basic understanding of how the thing works. Just my informed opinion of what has been happening in Japan.
That spike seems pretty ginormous. I'm thinking it was a bad reading. Regardless, we can't trust TEPCO no matter what. They are making BP look competent.
Don't fret.
TEPCO is a BP subsid.
.
I have heard that foreign nationals can show up at our American embassy and claim the right of 'political asylum'. I wonder if they could be afforded the right to request 'ecological asylum'?
"Mistake" or someone/somebody lost control of the "message"....this whole situation stinks rotten to the core.
Tokyo Electric Power Company has retracted its announcement that 10 million times the normal density of radioactive materials had been detected in water at the Number 2 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.
The utility says it will conduct another test of the leaked water at the reactor's turbine building.
The company said on Sunday evening that the data for iodine-134 announced earlier in the day was actually for another substance that has a longer half-life.
The plant operator said earlier on Sunday that 2.9 billion becquerels per cubic centimeter had been detected in the leaked water.
It said although the initial figure was wrong, the water still has a high level of radioactivity of 1,000 millisieverts per hour.
Sunday, March 27, 2011 22:02 +0900 (JST)
Translation:
We gotta call from wall street and they said that they connot have this data as it is, because the futures market opens shortly and we only have so much money that we can pump into the markets. We need to flush this contaminated water out into the ocean (because you know the ocean is big and this will dissipate into harmless plankton) pump in some fresh water and then retest the newly placed water and then release that data redacting the old data, ok President of TEPCO.
Mr. Masataka Shimizus' response:
I am going home sick, you guys test the new water and you guys redact the old data because I have to hurry up and log onto my Ameritrade account and place some puts.
In all seriousness, I think that is possibly as close to the truth we are going to get in a good while. The vicinity of Tokyo makes this disaster as relevant to the finacial system as 1,2 Quadrillion of derivatives.
+ 10 million
As long as the mutant 3 eyed ill-tempered seabass have lasers in their head we should be OK.
How else would they defend themselves from the similarly equipped sharks?
The water used for cooling is being vented to . . . where? We have exactly zero prior experience knowing the effects of radioactive water being vented to land or into the ocean. We do know that early on the USS Ronald Reagan backed up considerably.
Jaws 4 (or is it 5?) coming soon to a theatre near you.
Hero,vented would connote some sort of controlled release,the stuff is pouring out faster than the can get it in
Every water, air and soil reading they have ever taken since day 1 has been redacted or modified.
But nobody noticed that ! ;-)
Why don't all you backseat Historians and Engineers go to the RADNET query page and take a look at the data "spikes" across our country (to almost 500 Beta Gross Count Rate CPM for the last week. Hurry before they remove the Data !) are you afraid you will get a dose of reality. ?
Hell, I will even give you the query link. Pay special attention to Wichata, Colorodo Springs, Grand Junction, Navaho Lake, Rapid City and San Angelo.
And then come back here and tell us that they are all the wrong readings. !
Link to RADNET query page
https://cdxnode64.epa.gov/radnet-public/query.do
tried to...said page cannot be displayed
I just clicked the link in my message and it works.
Here Trav, I copied the data from March 25, 2011 into a word file and here is a little taste of what it shows.
I have copied all the data incase they have a computer glitch (know what I mean)
Wichata KS March 25, 2011
Fixed Monitor Location: KS: WICHITA
Measurement Start Date/Time: 03/25/2011 08:06:52 PM
Measurement End Date/Time: 03/25/2011 09:07:00 PM
Beta Gross Count Rate (CPM): 447
Gamma Energy Range 2 Gross(CPM): 1862
Gamma Energy Range 3 Gross(CPM): 1117
Gamma Energy Range 4 Gross(CPM): 330
Gamma Energy Range 5 Gross(CPM): 177
Gamma Energy Range 6 Gross(CPM): 113
Gamma Energy Range 7 Gross(CPM): 142
Gamma Energy Range 8 Gross(CPM): 95
Gamma Energy Range 9 Gross(CPM): 33
Gamma Energy Range 10 Gross(CPM): 49
2011-03-25 07:04:09
2011-03-25 08:04:21
2011-03-25 09:04:33
2011-03-25 10:04:46
2011-03-25 11:04:58
2011-03-25 12:05:10
2011-03-25 13:05:22
2011-03-25 14:05:34
2011-03-25 15:05:46
2011-03-25 16:05:59
2011-03-25 17:06:11
2011-03-25 18:06:23
179.0000
2011-03-25 19:06:36
253.0000
2011-03-25 20:06:48
358.0000
2011-03-25 21:07:00
447.0000
2011-03-25 22:07:12
162.0000
The ones that have blank readings means that the remote site is having mechanical difficulties. (know what I mean)
looks like an hourlong spike...nothing to panic over.
CPM on gamma I think is like 120 CPM per uSv; correct me if I'm wrong. The Sievert is a roentgen equivalent man dosage absorption and varies depending upon the type of radiation and type of man.
I read that most dosimeters are calibrated for Cs137 and that is at 120cpm...some of these network sites may have recalibrated 100CPM=1uSv.
"correct me if I'm wrong"
You are wrong.
"varies depending upon the type of radiation and type of man"
You are complete scum.
And you know it.
Your mother curses the day you were born.
Another very interesting issue here is the volume and activity of government plant sock-puppets and shills to counteract the negative news out of Fukushima.
The virulent activity of the sockpuppets is an indication of how much of a problem this really is.
Would be interesting to measure sock puppet activity on various sites and their behaviour. May become a new predictive measure.