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As Radioactive Iodine Cloud Passes Over Korea, Government Downplays Risks

Tyler Durden's picture


It appears that the Standard Operating Procedure following the Fukushima fallout so far has been: 1) deny, 2), deny 3) deny, 4) raise safety limit, 5) collapse in a sniveling heap of guilt. Korea seems to be between step 1 and 2. As the following animation from ZAMG demonstrates, courtesy of Northeastern winds, a major cloud of radioactive Iodine  131 is currently passing right over South Korea. Making matters worse is the fact that it is currently drizzling in the landlucklocked nation, putting people on edge. Yet one cursory look at Korean press, in this case Arirang, demonstrates that absolutely nothing has changed in how governments, ready to sacrifice everything at the altar of mass panic, interact with their population when it comes to sensitive issues such as radioactive rain. "Meanwhile unlike many have anticipated the Korea Meteorological Administration assured that the seasonal winds accompanied by rain approaching from Japan will have almost no impact on Korea." Well, there's spin and there's facts. And for what it's worth the animation shows the facts. This way at least some people will have the choice of making an informed decision. Others may just wake up with superhuman powers soon enough.

More from Arirang:

With Japan's Fukushima nuclear crisis still lingering the Korean government is accelerating efforts to mitigate the impact of nuclear fallout in Korea.

President Lee Myung-bak visited the Korea Food and Drug Administration on Wednesday and urged authorities to toughen safety checks on food imported from Japan, as well as to provide prompt and accurate inspection results to the public.

Inter-ministerial meetings, led by the Prime Minister's Office were also held on the same day to seek appropriate measures in dealing with Japan's nuclear aftermath on a pan government level.

Special task force meetings will be held twice a week presided by the Prime Minister's Office and attended by ministers of the relevant bodies, including the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology.

The task force will mainly discuss measures to counter nuclear leaks and ways to strengthen the safety of Korea's nuclear plants, as well as food imported from Japan.

The weather agency's spokesman Kim Seung-bae said at a briefing held on Wednesday, that air current analysis shows that the winds blowing from the island nation will circle clockwise and fade out towards the Pacific Ocean by Friday, leaving the Korean peninsula unaffected.

Officials added, however, they will step up monitoring traces of radioactive materials throughout Korea and especially on Jeju Island, since it will be hit before any other regions if the winds unexpectedly blow towards Korea.

While we are glad to hear that by Friday the radiation should clear out, we can't help but wonder what happens to that one day between Wednesday and Friday...


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Wed, 04/06/2011 - 19:52 | 1143350 kengland
kengland's picture

What's the level of radioactive iodine in the cloud?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:07 | 1143391 CPL
CPL's picture

Lethal in ten years.  It's not the fact it's radioactive...well it's the dust, pollen..cross contamination of crops, then to live stock...water...soil...mixed/setting concrete without lead in it.


Do people honestly think lead lined paint and asbestos during the 40's and 50's was an accident?  Or the fact Iodine was added to table salt after Hiroshima was an accident? wasn't.  It's the best type of engineering...the social kind.  Chemistry for better living.  But think about the time.  The US blew up hundreds of A bomb in everyway shape or form to fight the "commie" threat (like they were really commies).

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:24 | 1143463 TIMMAYYY
TIMMAYYY's picture

wowowow...your making some crazy assumptions there..

lead based paint and asbestos insulation to prevent radiation is quite a steep measure.

However, the more you look into other things gov. do...this seems like play time.

wtf am i going to find out in a few years how they messed with me...i hope this fluoride stuff is harmless....

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 21:42 | 1143729 CPL
CPL's picture

Most of what you eat, put on, play with is a byproduct of the US army.  Microwaves, polyester, Sodium Idoine (table salt), asbestos.  Wars allow for some excellent advances in technology.  Some kept others freely given.

The computer as a tool was considered a gadget until 1982, IBM was pretty much forbidden  to sell outside of the sphere of influence of USDef.  Couple of english asshole push the Sinclair series, Commodore's wasn't IBM and Apple that made the desktop.  It was the Brits.  As an Irish Canuck I'm ashamed to admit, but for correction to the history proper.  People pushed the industry because it was sold for 199 pounds versus 15000 dollars.  That's IT.  IBM (like apple now) retaliated with the IBM PC jr (worthless piece of shit) for 2700 dollars...Sinclair acorn and Commodore out sold the platform 20 to one but keeping the price under 500 USD.  Apple countered with the clones....yada yada...


Any Case.  Technology given won't save anyone unless that is the freakish mutation you are endowed with.  The ability to resist radiation.  Just look at the justification of Iodized's meant to save you from goiter..seriously  goiter...more people died of sceptic infections from a bad tooth than goiter before the fact....most people dropped dead from gout than goiter...anycase rant off.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 23:11 | 1143989 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Goiter and thyroid disease is a real problem in China (  This used to be one of my main arguments against Chinese medicine, they could not even add iodine to salt. 

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:39 | 1144232 nyse
nyse's picture

Yep. +1

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 08:06 | 1144633 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

LMAO. I love a good conspiracy and coincidence usually leads to these types of consipracies but LEAD was added to paint because of its excellent pigment and coverage properties. Saying TPTB added lead to paint to protect us from fallout is hogwash. Why did they add lead to gasoline then? Maybe because of its lubricative properties! And asbestos was cheap, easy to make, fireproof and they didn't know about the long term effects at that time. Salt? As in iodized salt?? LMAO! I know there are some truths in what TPTB do to manipulate things BUT not in these things you mention. I love a good conspiracy but you better put the weed down now before you claim TV sets were made for mind control. Oh wait, maybe they were...

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 08:35 | 1144692 Dr. Impossible
Dr. Impossible's picture

ooooo.....conspiracies...i gots 1 for this!! sure to vote in the upcoming elections!!!

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 09:13 | 1144812 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

well I'd like to reply but I feel the urge to go and watch the telly...

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 09:56 | 1144917 joshbot
joshbot's picture


In 1932, a letter from U.S. Bureau of Mines to asbestos manufacturer Eagle-Picher stated, in relevant part, "It is now known that asbestos dust is one of the most dangerous dusts to which man is exposed."

Asbestos effects had been known to have toxic effects before the 19th century.  A basic wikipedia check will plug you into plenty of solid verifiable data such as the following.  Please consider checking the credibility of your statement before 'laughing your ass off' publicly at someones dissenting opinion.


Thu, 04/07/2011 - 10:16 | 1144986 joshbot
joshbot's picture

Also wrong.

Toxicity in children from lead paint was recognized in Australia in 1897. France, Belgium and Austria banned white lead interior paints in 1909; the League of Nations followed suit in 1922. However, in the United States, laws banning lead house paint were not passed until 1971, and it was phased out and not fully banned until 1978.



Source: Goldfrank's Toxicologic Emergencies (the #1 reference in the field for the last quarter of a century.)   Eugenics is an advanced science.  Deal with it because it intends to deal with you.



Thu, 04/07/2011 - 14:02 | 1146051 tj3
tj3's picture

The poster who is Laughing His Ass Off, didn't go into the morality or the harm asbestos caused. That's all you babe.

So are you up to refuting any of the facts the LHAO poster, posted?

Feel free to moralize to the board on other posts that are IYO are offensive to those that LTAO.

OHHHHH...white knighting is sooooooooooo much fun!

brb, soup

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 17:28 | 1147088 joshbot
joshbot's picture


I was responding to jus_lite_reading's statement: 

"they didn't know about the long term effects at that time."  

I'm not arguing that The Powers That Be did it for eugenics purposes or  that it was done by the military to defend against radiation.  All I'm saying is attacking a person as crazy and then screwing up your facts is a bad move and that eugenics is not a joke.  The drone of snide stabs reeks of a high school pecking order gone wild.  ZH and the issue deserves better.  Personally I like to build something worthwhile.


Thu, 04/07/2011 - 09:01 | 1144769 tj3
tj3's picture

Some Marxist said, "IBM was pretty much forbidden  to sell outside of the sphere of influence of USDef."


   IBM executives, in thier infinite wisdom, said at the time, "Who the fuck would want a computer on their desk!"

Thanks for the history lesson.

ps, /b was never good.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:46 | 1144243 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

nothing sticks like lead based paint....good stuff!

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:55 | 1144261 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

right up there with lead gasoline.  the good old days.  now i've got friggin' eagles and great blue herons shittin' and nestin' everywhere.  god damn you National Geographic!  Damn you to heck!

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 10:11 | 1144961 malikai
malikai's picture

You can still buy leaded gasoline. Just go to your local GA airport. 100LL is still the only fuel available for small piston engined birds.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 09:09 | 1144801 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

is that before or after it breaks down to polonium somethingorother...

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 03:05 | 1144409 Eric Cartman
Eric Cartman's picture

I'm radioactive. 

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 09:07 | 1144794 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

can you see through walls yet?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:52 | 1143561 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

If I remember my chemistry corrrectly, "white lead" was an excellent pigment. Had nothing to do with nuclear fallout.

Just pass the dip to go with the paint chips.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 21:23 | 1143659 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Lead based paint has been in use for hundreds or thousands of years, and was the primary type of paint long before anyone in the government ever even heard of "radioactivity".

And asbestos was used because it is completely fireproof, being the only widely available "fiber" that is made of a mineral.  In fact, ancient firemen in the middle east would wear clothes made out of asbestos.  When they got dirty, rather than washing them, they would put them in the fire!

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:46 | 1143899 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

I heart asbestos cigarette filters (bonus feature MadMen).

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 09:08 | 1144790 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Personally can't see anything wrong with a cigarette that glows even when you don't puff on it...

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 23:50 | 1144094 Mark McGoldrick
Mark McGoldrick's picture


Lead based paint has been in use for hundreds or thousands of years, and was the primary type of paint long before anyone in the government ever even heard of "radioactivity".

And asbestos was used because it is completely fireproof, being the only widely available "fiber" that is made of a mineral.  In fact, ancient firemen in the middle east would wear clothes made out of asbestos.  When they got dirty, rather than washing them, they would put them in the fire!


Ladies and gentlemen!  I present to you a modern-day Cliff Clavin.  Instead of a neighborhood bar and grill, the modern-day Cliff Clavin jumps between 10 different internet sites all day, every day and spouts utterly ridiculous trivia in hopes of impressing those willing to listen. Sociologists have long been fascinated by these individuals, and should you be fortunate enough to trap one in the wild, large rewards are offered at universities everywhere.


Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:03 | 1144135 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Uhh, I was refuting a paranoid argument.  I thought you were some sort of truth seeker?

I guess not.  I suppose you are just a jealous loser who does nothing but run about the internet pursuing vendettas against people he has no beef with.

Sad, really.

Also, Trav called, he said get your own insults.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:29 | 1144176 Mark McGoldrick
Mark McGoldrick's picture

Mr. Clavin

You're being hornswoggled. 

Eyes and Ears Everywhere...

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 08:11 | 1144641 Blankman
Blankman's picture

He asked you to present an argument.  Just "thinking" you are smart doesn't count.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 09:18 | 1144832 tj3
tj3's picture




I think I'm going to change my avatar, trips get to pick

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 10:15 | 1144973 malikai
malikai's picture


Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:07 | 1144148 Popo
Popo's picture

Call him what you will, but he pretty much demolished CPL's tinfoil hat rant with a couple of pieces of solid factual ammunition.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:02 | 1144136 espirit
Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:08 | 1144154 medicalstudent
medicalstudent's picture

reverse osmosis will demineralize, and therefore deradioactivate, or purify, the water.


act on facts, not under government.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 04:18 | 1144448 Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

Reverse osmosis wastes three times as much water as it filters. That waste water will therefore be 30% more dangerous than it was before....

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 08:54 | 1144747 Dr. Impossible
Dr. Impossible's picture

reverse osmosis is a "process" to which certain filtration systems employ, not that it "has to waste water, in the process at all". the home based R.O. systems (reverse osmosis) do indeed waste alot of water, but that's by design, to produce desired outcome, over a period of time.

I've worked on "R.O." systems the size of grade school gymnasium's, some are even installed into semi trailers(they can be leased for temporary usage)

some use membranes, some use sand(think pool filter), or other media's pending what u want to remove/strain out.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 08:15 | 1144649 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

, IF the radioactivity is carried by an (say) iodide ION, you probably could remove it, since that is what reverse osmosis does--replace heavy ions with lighter ones (sweeping generality).  It depend on the pore size of the membrane. 

If, however, the radioactivity is carried by a "particle" such as an iodide ion stuck to a dust particle, then it will not be removed


so sayeth my (usually correct) jpl physicist father

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 09:21 | 1144840 Monday1929
Monday1929's picture

Have you taken your 30 minute "ethics" class yet, medical student?

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 07:28 | 1144574 goldenbuddha454
goldenbuddha454's picture

Where are the anti-nuke zealots of the 60's, you know, Jackson Browne, Graham Nash, etc..?  Where are the anti-war zealots of the 60's, you know, Jane Fonda, Martin Sheen etc..?  I guess that when there's a DEMOCRAT in the white house its time to stand down on everything you ever believed in, or maybe they didn't believe in any of it anyway! 

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 09:19 | 1144839 tj3
tj3's picture

what, are you asking where are the domestic terrorists?

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 10:20 | 1145006 primalplasma
primalplasma's picture

They got older.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 12:29 | 1145660 malikai
malikai's picture

They didn't sell out. They bought in.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 19:53 | 1143354 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Sorry to be pedantic, but SK isn't landlocked. An example of a landlocked country would be Switzerland.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:20 | 1143451 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Reasonable point...  he should have said a country with nowhere to run unless it's into the waiting arms of Lil Kim. Yes they can always swim I guess.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 03:07 | 1144410 Eric Cartman
Eric Cartman's picture

Umm.. EscapeKey, can I tap that ass?

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 04:51 | 1144462 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

Ummm...Eric. He's a guy.  That's a picture of Russian spy Anna Chapman.  Don't ask me why some guys insist on making their avatar a hot chick or a pair of jugs. Unfulfilled psych needs pro'ly.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 07:35 | 1144587 Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

My avatar speaks for itself.

The picture was taken inside Bernank's office one winter day.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 08:46 | 1144723 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Because considering our times at present, she's perfect. She's a spy - but completely incompetent. Supposed to be smart, but asking people to hook up ad-hoc network connections for her in Starbucks. Supposed to blend in with the average person, but couldn't possibly stand more out. Supposed to gather intelligence, but more interested in getting drunk & laid.

Everything about her is the diametric opposite of what it's supposed to be, just like the financial markets of today.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 20:10 | 1147692 Eric Cartman
Eric Cartman's picture

This is a first for me (that I'm aware of).

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 19:51 | 1143356 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Anybody have a link to one of these animations for the ocean current and attendant contamination?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:54 | 1143936 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture
And let your imagination run wild. I haven't found anybody modeling dispersion of radioactive water.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 19:52 | 1143358 Tapeworm
Tapeworm's picture


Wed, 04/06/2011 - 19:55 | 1143365 toxic8
toxic8's picture

"Making matters worse is the fact that it is currently drizzling in the landlocked nation, putting people on edge."


since when is korea landlocked?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:24 | 1143462 cheesewizz
cheesewizz's picture

 TD my be referring to a Political land lock vs a geographical one

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 04:23 | 1144449 Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

It has quite a large coastline and a relatively small but impassable DMZ. If I was South Korean, I'd probably feel like I was on an island.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 09:21 | 1144844 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

If I was South Korean, I'd probably feel like I was  'irradiated'...

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 21:08 | 1143610 knukles
knukles's picture

When it drizzles. 



Least that's what I was taught when I went back to the Oyama sponsored adult ed classes.  That and Republicans are Islamofobic, war mongering, child eating, pillage and rape, capitalist child labor sponsors, female and child sex trafficking, illegal immigrant non payers of withholding, comic book level IQ spawns of the devil.  So said my tolerant, loving, kind, understanding, gentle, passionate, inclusive, spiritual socialist Democratic teacher, who thought anybody unlike her should have all their rights taken away in the name of a sane society. (Humming Kumbayah)

Or have I go the political affiliations reversed?  So hard to keep track of who believes what these days.

Just kidding.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 06:06 | 1144514 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

Maybe we should change Obama's name to Pol Pot.


You know I see the thought police everywhere. I was over at the Huffington Post to see what the new regime has done to it.

Holy mother christ! If that ain't funded by big unions, big dems, Pol Pt wannabes. The only thing missing is the halo around Pol Pot's ass. Republicons are nazis, blah, blah.

Truly scary how MSM has moved into the Internet and has started pecking away at the fringe elements.


Tyler beware - they cometh your way - methinks since htis place is the last bastion of free thought.


For all the warts and shit around here sometimes at least there's warts.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 23:31 | 1144042 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

United States government engineers sent to help with the crisis in Japan are warning that the troubled nuclear plant there is facing a wide array of fresh threats that could persist indefinitely, and that in some cases are expected to increase as a result of the very measures being taken to keep the plant stable, according to a confidential assessment prepared by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

The document, which was obtained by The New York Times, provides a more detailed technical assessment than Japanese officials have provided of the conundrum facing the Japanese as they struggle to prevent more fuel from melting at the Fukushima Daiichi plant. But it appears to rely largely on data shared with American experts by the Japanese.

Among other problems, the document raises new questions about whether pouring water on nuclear fuel in the absence of functioning cooling systems can be sustained indefinitely. Experts have said the Japanese need to continue to keep the fuel cool for many months until the plant can be stabilized, but there is growing awareness that the risks of pumping water on the fuel present a whole new category of challenges that the nuclear industry is only beginning to comprehend.

The document also suggests that fragments or particles of nuclear fuel from spent fuel pools above the reactors were blown “up to one mile from the units,” and that pieces of highly radioactive material fell between two units and had to be “bulldozed over,” presumably to protect workers at the site. The ejection of nuclear material, which may have occurred during one of the earlier hydrogen explosions, may indicate more extensive damage to the extremely radioactive pools than previously disclosed.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 07:36 | 1144588 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Not to mention that pouring water on corium can cause criticality excursions.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 23:45 | 1144081 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Akira Hiroshi Koide reactor Kyoudai “critical potential” re-listen cause full text, MBS Mainichi Broadcasting (Osaka), April 6, 2011:


“The Fukushima I Nuke Plant accident is not winding down at all. I think I have to revise my opinion which was too optimistic.”

[Host:] What was too optimistic?

We thought the reactors “cold stopped”, which means the uranium fission stopped. But now I’ve started to think the fission has started again. In other words, the reactor has become “critical” again – which we call “recriticality“.”

[Host:] Professor Koide, you were of the opinion that the recriticality was not happening.

“Yes, and I’ve changed my mind. It may be happening.” …

“First, the level of iodine[-131] is not decreasing; it is increasing. Iodine[-131]‘s half life is 8 days. It has been more than 3 weeks since the accident, so the level of iodine[-131] should be about 1/10 of the initial level measured. Second, the presence of chlorine-38 was detected from the contaminated water in the turbine building [he doesn't say which one].” …

“Well, if chlorine-38 was detected [according to TEPCO], and that can only mean “recriticality”. …

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 07:38 | 1144595 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

They might lie about which isotopes they detect.  But isotopes themselves cannot lie.  If they really detected these isotopes, then it is incontrovertible evidence of criticality.  'Nuff said.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 19:53 | 1143367 WineSorbet
WineSorbet's picture

I don't understand why the government sets up standards that define minimum safety levels for toxic substances.  Obviously, not limit is too high whether it be hydrocarbon or radiation based.  It's all good.  /sarcasm

It's so surreal and pathetic, we deserve to be wiped off this planet like a cancer.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:11 | 1143420 CPL
CPL's picture

Or horrible mutation...which increases with the exposure.  And people thought autism was on the rise.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:26 | 1144206 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

+3 eyes!

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:51 | 1144254 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

Springfield Nuclear Power Plant

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 09:25 | 1144849 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

and it completely buggers up your ...erm...whatsit thingy..... .....erm.....memory or something...

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 23:56 | 1144112 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

Why no minimum safety levels for alcohol or ciagarettes?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 19:56 | 1143369 SHRAGS
SHRAGS's picture

Here's a crowdsourced live radiation map for Japan:




Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:14 | 1143424 dcb
dcb's picture

cool shrags, thanks for posting

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:21 | 1143435 Milstar
Milstar's picture

Thanks for the map. 

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:44 | 1143540 Antarctico
Antarctico's picture

Excellent link -- Thanks!

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:59 | 1143579 Antarctico
Antarctico's picture

GD dup!

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 21:00 | 1143590 malikai
malikai's picture

Excellent link.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:33 | 1143856 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

God damn it. 

This link--thanks--shows some of the 'under servey' Fukushima Prefecture areas that are censored from the public SPEEDI website.  Now we know why.

Fukushima City, population about 300,000,_Fukushima

"The Nakad?ri region is the agricultural heart of the prefecture and contains the capital, Fukushima City."

The mountain valley there happens to trap low level air and is also the main route to the disaster zones farther north.

The radiation readings are in the range of 2 microsieverts per hour.  That's 17,520 microsieverts or 17.52 millisieverts per year, or 0.018 sievert.

While the National Academy of Sciences has stated that there is no safe dose of ionizing radiation, the assessment of health impacts generally starts at 0.01 sievert, a level at which 1 in 1,000 people would be expected to develop cancer.  That's 1 rem, or more than 10 times typical US public health standards.

Let's call the outside dose 0.01 sievert over six months...or the time it'll take to take a huge sheet over at the plant.  For a city of 300,000 that implies 300 cases of cancer just on a simple dose-response assumption, but keep in mind that being indoors can limit exposure, depending on how the radiation monitors are positioned etc. 

The entire population of Fukushima Prefecture is about 2 million.  That's a couple of thousand at risk just based on current conditions.  Again, lots of uncertainty.  Really need time series of the radiation levels, for starters.  But still.  Add to that the impact on unborn children...something like 2 or 3 cases of mental retardation per 1,000.

It's a good bet that the government just can't come to grips with the implications of this kind of information.  As for the citizenry, well, would you hunker down in place?  I know damn well there should at a minimum be advice to stay out of the rain, wash down shoes and outerwear frequently, park cars outside of homes, and other simple precautions that can take risk down by an order of magnitude.  Is shame and concern for appearances going to add thousands to the casualty figures?

I am very sorry to have to report this to folks, and sincerely hope to be completely full of shit, out to lunch, flat wrong.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:47 | 1143903 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

This just in from NHK...implications are large...a lot of Fukushima Prefecture may be evacuated based on this, which would still allow exposures well over  'normal' US public health limits.

Evacuation standards being reviewed

Nuclear experts are suggesting the government revise the radioactive standards for evacuation advisories involving the emergency at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

The move comes almost 4 weeks after tsunami disabled the nuclear plant.

According to existing guidelines, people should remain indoors when radiation levels outdoors reach 10 millisieverts several days after any accident. Evacuation is only considered when levels reach 50 millisieverts. The guidelines were set by the Nuclear Safety Commission using standards adopted by organizations including the International Atomic Energy Agency.

The government has advised residents living in areas within 20 kilometers of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant to "evacuate" while those in areas between 20 and 30 kilometers have been told to "stay indoors".

However, the amount of exposure is likely to rise in these areas as little progress has been made in cooling the nuclear fuels or containing radiation leaks.

Taking into consideration the fact that the situation may be prolonged, the Nuclear Safety Commission has reviewed its guidelines using a 2007 advisory issued by the International Committee on Radiological Protection. The commission now says an evacuation advisory should be issued to prevent residents from being exposed to a total of 20 millisieverts a year.

A member of the commission says the evacuation advisories should reflect the possibility that the situation at the nuclear power plant will be drawn out.

According to the member, the Commission has suggested to a task force that measures should be taken when radiation levels exceed 20 millisieverts. The member says it is the Commission's responsibility to monitor and collect data in each affected area.

Scientists say the limit allowed for an average person is 1 millisiervert a year. The Nuclear Safety Commission is suggesting revising the evacuation standard only for the current emergency. It says it does not necessarily mean that the 1-millisievert limit should be raised. The commission says the government has already begun briefing the affected local communities on the matter.

Thursday, April 07, 2011 06:48 +0900 (JST)

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:28 | 1144209 espirit
espirit's picture

Ditto on the cudos. Good to know what levels we are dealing with.

Wish someone smarter than me could put together what "normal" background exposure we receive on a daily/weekly/monthly/annual basis - io or not. Increased exposure and extended for how long?

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 02:20 | 1144382 bingocat
bingocat's picture

1 Gray/hr is 1 sievert/hr if you are watching the Japanese counters.

Average US dosage from natural causes is on the order of 2400-3600 microsieverts per year (the NRC quotes 3100, Washington State DoH quotes 3000). Depending on who you listen to, manmade radiation dosage will average from 600 to 3100 microSv/year. The NRC says 3100, WashStateDoH says 680, or 3480 if you smoke (cigarettes contain lead-210 and Pb-210 decays to polonium-210). Residents of Denver Colorado average a background dose of something like 6,000-8,000 microSv/year because of higher cosmic and terrestrial radiation (La Paz Bolivia is worse by another 3,000 microSv/yr). Then you add manmade causes (call it 2800microSv/yr from smoking, 400microSv/yr from x-rays, mammograms, CT scans, radiographies, etc). Believe it or not but the body itself carries potassium-40 and carbon-14 which also add to the background dosage (some 300-400microSv/yr just from that).

The highest level (with a geiger counter) of atmospheric radiation in Ibaragi prefecture (the prefecture just south of Fukushima) is currently running a rate of around 440nanoGrays/hr, which is about 3850microsieverts/year. This is largely cosmic/atmospheric radiation and would not include the medical or radon parts. This is quite a bit higher than atmospheric radiation in the US, but because 75% of the background dose in the US comes from radon and terrestrial sources, that kind of makes up for it. In most places in Japan outside major cities, the radon/terrestrial dosage is limited. The level in Ibaragi was up to 4000nanoGrays (nanosieverts)/hr on the morning of the 15th after one of the steam/hydrogen explosions, probably partly because of adverse wind conditions, but it had fallen by 75% by day-end. There was another brief spike in the period of the 20-22nd of March, but it has been falling since then to current levels, and current levels are falling by about what one would expect.

The worries about people who lived in the area being susceptible to higher cancer rates by 0.1% (over one's lifetime) because of receiving 0.01 sievert over 6 months (i.e. 10,000 microSv/6mos) are probably overstated given the context. That number is a statistic (from the NAS) based on "increased likelihood of developing cancer over a lifetime". This would indicate that people who live in Denver Colorado would be naturally taking the same risk (0.1% chance increase for every two years spent in Denver rather than Other Hometown USA). Furthermore, being indoors can lower external exposure from that level by a factor of 90%, which would suggest that normal life for non-agricultural workers would probably reduce that exposure by at least 75% (not many non-agricultural workers actually spend more than 6 hours a day outside, and even fewer would do so now); i.e. making it 0.025% rather than 0.1%. Furthermore, the average age of the population there is quite old (indicating that the "lifetime" during which one would statistically develop that cancer is quite a bit shorter than the average lifetime used in calculating risks for the NAS), so reduce that 0.025% by perhaps half. Still, this does not mean that the cancer will kill you. It just means you have a higher likelihood of getting it (example: thyroid cancer has a 95% survival rate). Given that some 55% of Japanese actually die of cancer, the concern for higher cancer rates given CURRENT levels of radiation exposure should be limited.

Note that the 1milliSv/yr "limit" per year commonly quoted for the US is not a legal limit, but is the "limit" above background radiation that NRC licensees are required to keep as a limit for maximum exposure to individual members of the public. Adults working with radioactive material at those same NRC licensees are "limited" to 50milliSv/year (or 50,000 microSV/year). Given that the limit that an individual nuclear facility in the US is allowed to emit is 0.25milliSv/year outside its walls, the US "limits" are largely academic.

An interesting way to look at levels is at

This will obviously get me flamed/junked as a nuclear apologist though I haven't stated an opinion yet - just drawn the facts in a slightly different way.

HOWEVER, the real issue is NOT what has already happened - there is not much one can do about that. The REAL issue is whether there is substantial health risk from a serious worsening of the incident. This is what concerns little old me, currently indoors in sunny Tokyo, some 260km away from Fukushima Dai-Ichi (enjoying local background radiation levels lower than year-round average levels in HK).

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 05:37 | 1144495 taraxias
taraxias's picture

You describe radiation exposure almost like having a double scoop of chocolate ice cream.

An apologist would have been a little more shameful.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 06:12 | 1144520 bingocat
bingocat's picture

I like chocolate ice cream. I am ashamed. Not.

Sometimes I like a double scoop. Am I ashamed? Only a little because I could afford to lose a little weight.

I live on the earth. I absorb background radiation. I am ashamed. Not.

I know how to calculate low radiation dosage accumulation over time. This does not bother me either.

I feel people who live in Denver are in imminent danger of rising cancer risks so the government should do something about like through a radiation-damping sheet over the whole of the sky? No.

Do I wish to hell the place 260km north of me did not emit radiation? Yes.

Does the current radiation level in Tokyo, or even Ibaragi scare me? No.

Does the uncertainty about what might happen scare me? Yes, a bit, and sometimes more than a bit.

Will I feed my kids leafy greens from Fukushima and Ibaragi? No. Will I buy fish or meat from Fukushima and/or Ibaragi? No.

Will myself and many others doing this put a lot of people in Fukushima and Ibaragi out of business? Yes.

So TEPCO gets screwed and the government or TEPCO pays out damages according to the CLDAPA of 1961 and people move.

Not much I can do about it now. But I also think that scaring the bejesus out of people with a panicked tone and dodgy assumptions is not the way to do it. And if every single geiger counter (including the ones used by non-government agencies) is set to produce lower-than-actual results in this corner of Japan, then we are all screwed anyway.

So be it.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 08:01 | 1144622 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

There's another way to estimate risk, and that is the potential for escalation.

Just like when you contemplate buying insurance for unforeseen events, you must consider not only the likelihood of an event, but also the consequences if the unlikely happens to you.  (You might never be involved in a car crash, but if you are, the consequences can be dire.)

The first little problem is that pouring water on the problem can induce criticality which is uncontained.  The problem with this is that it is rather unpredictable.  It can happen in little sputters, or it could happen in a big sputter.

The second little problem is that if you get a pretty good poof out of the mess and this event coincides with unfavorable winds, you could get a sizable dose before you have time to vacate the premises.

Obviously you have considered this and have estimated that the risk is not high enough to cause you to abandon your current life and incur the costs of displacement.

I wish you well and hope everything works out OK for you.  I feel lucky that I am far away from there.  If I were in your place, I can't say that I would have the means or motivation to drop my life and run away.  The one thing we need to be on mental guard against is 'normalcy bias'.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 09:09 | 1144803 The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

Excellent points TaxSlave....this goes to the heart of the matter.  It's not about being paniced or hysterical about what has's about recognizing the high (in my opinion) probability for very negative future events that could ocurr with little or no warning given the present state of the reactors.  It's about taking reasonable measures to protect human health, and not being cavalier about the increased threat level.  It's about people who are willing to play Russian roulette with a nuclear meltdown, and who post insinuations that living in Denver is currently more dangerous than living in Tokyo???!!!  I'm not sure if this guy has really thought about what he is saying, or if he is paid to say it....but his analysis holds absolutly no water when put under a microscope (much like several of the reactors and SFPs). 

T.E.I.N. everyone!     

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 00:01 | 1148482 bingocat
bingocat's picture

You are right. I addressed the two points separately. I addressed the 'steady-state' dosage levels in Fukushima and compared them to Denver. But my last paragraph should make clear what I think the real risk is.

Thank you for your kind good wishes.

I know of people who have abandoned their lives here on their own. I know of even more people whose companies have helped them abandon their lives here. These are foreigners who do not consider Japan 'home.' I wonder if the French companies who have evacuated their French employees from Tokyo would do the same for non-French employees in Paris (or French employees) if something happened at Nogent-sur-Seine.

I am on guard against 'normalcy bias', specifically because this is a situation where the only case ever is the one we're going through now. To me, there is no normalcy. I have tried to get as much information as possible about worst-case, time lags involved, etc. I have studied Chernobyl extensively. I have specific plans prepared for any of the eventualities I have come up with as possibilities. But I wish this weren't happening at all.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 12:02 | 1145547 HedgeCock
HedgeCock's picture

"So TEPCO gets screwed ..."

You write that as if you somehow feel sorry for them.  So TEPCO will fork out damages because THEY get/got screwed?  I thought it was them doing the screwing.  Interesting.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 22:21 | 1148078 bingocat
bingocat's picture

My usage was perhaps insensitive given the shoot first think later nature of this board. My use of "get" was in the nature of "put into the state of being screwed, by circumstances" rather than "was victimized." Anyone who knows me knows I am not a fan. Since the accident, saying "you were right" and my only response is that I wish my pessimism had never been put to the test. The right way to say that was probably "They are screwed" rather than "they get screwed." 

But despite my long-standing rabid dislike of TEPCO as an institution, I have sympathy for their situation. They are in a tough spot. This is the first time this has happened anywhere in the world (Chernobyl was worse, TMI less so), and whatever the rulebook says about how to deal with this, there are new things which get thrown up all the time (all the rulebooks basically assume that at least one of the backups works, then in case they don't, that something else will - they don't assume debris, floods, ongoing earthquakes, etc). Furthermore, the last two times this happened, information was a lot slower, meaning that whereas outrage could be displayed in the mainstream media the next day in the case of TMI, now there are at least three TEPCO situation rooms for the media where different aspects are reported on, all day long. What is worse, TEPCO is a listed company and if it does not tell the same information to everyone at the same time and someone acts on info (shorts or buys the shares and profits), then that would be in contravention of insider trading regulations. I haven't seen one mention of that aspect yet. Rule of law is a bitch.

Furthermore, while great swathes of Fukushima and parts of Ibaraki were laid bare by the largest tidal wave 1150 years or more, meaning people lost their homes, livelihoods, and lives, indications are that TEPCO will be blanket-blamed for all losses by anyone of anything within a 50km radius.

Last, while I think TEPCO has been arrogant over the years, there has been substantial governmental push to do things in a certain way. I would hope that GE who helped them originally would have raised objections to design faults if they had them, as would the IAEA and nuclear regulatory bodies which approved and re-approved the designs, implementations, safety measures, and comprehensive disaster plans (for the last time, the month before the earthquake). This reactor, if so badly designed, could have been put out of service permanently by government decree any time in the past 40 years. My strong feeling is that TEPCO is being railroaded, if somewhat deservedly, for what armchair quarterbacks will say is inadequate or inappropriate response at every turn.

I can promise you that even if TEPCO were not made to pay a cent of Compensation, those who work at TEPCO will live this over for the rest of their lives. There is no pride in this, only shame, for them. As much as you think they are screwing people, I would disagree. It is not their intention and there was a mild earthquake and tidal wave that history will not blame them for.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 06:25 | 1144533 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

I'm not sure if you are an apologist or not. What I do know is, we are being lied to, there are very real dangers and anyone who doesn't believe this is an asshole who is putting themselves and their families at risk.

Chernobyl was abandoned for a reason, and it is very very clear that this is at least 5 times worse. These useless pricks are pouring radioactive water into the ocean. Every fish in the sea is at risk which WILL! affect our food supply. It will cover crops worldwide which WILL! affect our food supply. It will cover and FUCK US UP! which will affect the governments ability to banckrupt us through taxation. (Maggie Thatrcher said - Socialism is wonderful till the last taxpayer dies)

You pinheads yack about this and that. Us - in the real world take action. My preference for action is protecting my family as best I can with good solid intelligence and information. Since there isn't any good information cause you fuckers cloud the issues with your inane yak yak.

Next for me is to remediate the risks accordingly.

Finally seek vengence on those fuckers somehow for ruining my fucking day.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 07:54 | 1144617 bingocat
bingocat's picture

I appreciate the sentiment - I really do, because I am as afraid of dying as the next bloke. And I really, really wish people did not build atomic power plants in the most earthquake-prone country on the planet. The downside is simply too great, and the earth is both too powerful to challenge and too delicate to mess with for the upside to be worth the probabilistic downside.

I have not figured out where The Big Lie is on this one yet unless it is on the likelihood  of and downside of catastrophic change vs current circumstances. But I haven't seen anyone come up with a model for what could happen other than "the whole world's f--ked dude!"  And while I share that sentiment some days, it does not help me "protect my family as best I can with good solid intelligence and information."

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 08:18 | 1144653 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Just consider that the chain reactions have not stopped, the situation is not under control and not improving, and those trying to deal with it are not gaining control nor can they even announce their plans for getting it under control.  The criticalities could die down, or they could get worse.  Or they could stay the same.

Yesterday the insane NPR made a one-sentence announcement: they are considering the use of helium to displace hydrogen.  Consider the implications of this, if true.  First, hydrogen generation is ongoing, which means superheated cladding exposed to steam,  second, that the hydrogen has a place to accumulate and mix with air in an enclosed space (which would be necessary to present an explosion risk as we have seen spectacular demonstrations), and so on.  These dribbles of information are practically less than useless except as a demonstration of the trustworthiness of ANY news coming out of this.

I'm not a scare-monger and have never been anti-nuke.  The response to this incident has me questioning not the abstract idea of nuclear power or whether it would be possible to use it safely, but whether the 'authorities' can be trusted to manage it.  The older I get, the more I learn that the bigger any group is, and the more politically oriented it is, the less likely it is that any rational idea will be heard or any rational action will be taken.  Even scientific 'prestige' is political nowadays, and politically motivated spending given to those who propound a viewpoint has pretty much ruined the trustworthiness of the field. 

The whole thing stinks.  That's why I worry for your safety.  Because the intelligence and information is contradictory and therefore untrustworthy.  It has been demonstrated that you can't trust the press, the government, the government-controlled corporation, or even the gagged scientists that came to try to assist.

I hope everything works out OK for you, and that the whole thing turns out to be a non-event.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 09:03 | 1144773 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Thanks for taking time to think about this.

Average background radiation in Japan is said to be 82 mREMS/yr, ranging up to 159 in Fukui.  1 mRem = 0.01 mSv so call it .82-1.6 mSv/yr.  Divide by 8760 for hourly...then multiply by 1000 to put it in microsieverts rather than millisieverts.  That's 0.09-0.18 microsieverts or micrograys/hr.


The cloudsourced geiger counter site goes with 0.081 for its public exposure average.  More counters in the lower background areas, but consistent with the above. 

Readings in the valley around Fukushima Prefecture are around 2.  So why do you refer to levels in Ibaraki?  And why then compare to background someplace else on another continent?  If you added such a large incremental contamination to public background dosage in the US is the result the same, or is it not?

Assume, just in the spirit of good intelligence, that the right weather conditions will bring your local levels in line.  Add some rain and hotspot potential.  So a couple of questions...if you will...

--Would you personally advise limiting daily activities out in the rain with a steady north-northeast wind in your neighborhood?  I don't have an opinion on that.  You might.

--Should the government issue common sense recommendations in Fukushima Prefecture that would reduce exposure?  I think so.  Their experts are recommending evacuating areas with roughly half this level.  Could easily end up being areas like Fukushima City itself.  Hysteria?  Or common sense?

Finally, note that I've only considered current conditions and actual measured data, not the potential for further changes, or the likely past levels that were higher, but only briefly.   Simply trying to assess the status quo if it continues for six months.  Which is after all the official scenario.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 00:37 | 1148606 bingocat
bingocat's picture

Thank you for being polite. I agree with your conversions and averages.

I don't use Fukushima data constantly because I don't have steady access to counters in Fukushima, and frankly, if I had lived there before now I would be far away now. My feeling of why some of these were "under servey" immediately after the quake was not that there was an attempt to hide information (we could get readings from the plant gate every hour) but that a bunch of them may have been damaged in the quake. Note that Miyagi's are out too (presumably the four at Ishinomaki and the three at Onagawa were inundated, and that's all there were on the MEXT site). However, I see it, and think about it. And I hope that all appropriate steps will be taken.

I mention Ibaraki because it is the first major population/measuring center between Fukushima and Tokyo, but it is outside all the possible evactuation zones mentioned by anybody (US NRC, IAEA, etc). The Ibaraki counters are also, by far, the highest readings of any prefecture on the MEXT site. Given your NNE wind, it is directly in the way between Fukushima Dai-Ichi and Tokyo (i.e. me). The Ibaraki counters are one part of my personal early-warning system.

If we talk about the status quo - i.e. 2microSV/hr in Fukushima, that is going to be an issue which needs to be addressed with policy if it lasts more than 6mos. Keep in mind, however, that in order to get those 2microSV, you have to be outside all the time - 24hrs a day 365 days a year with no lowering of level over time. Given that most people under normal circumstances are actually outside in the open air less than one-quarter of the day, the dosage level of background radiation (even man-made) is going to be substantially lower - i.e. on par with living in Denver. But that is steady state of current data.

As to rain and wind combining to bring higher levels to my doorstep (i.e. reducing both the time and distance vs my current state), this is what would cause the spike which happened on the 20th-22nd in Tokyo, with the tap water and higher radiation levels in Tokyo. We got wind and rain and we saw the result. Since you ask, yes, in such cases I would personally advise against walking in the rain without an umbrella, and limiting time outside, but more for the mental aspects. Walking in the Tokyo rain of March 21st, or drinking the tapwater on March 22nd once a month for the rest of your life would not, as far as I can tell, do anything to you. But I am susceptible to feeling better about myself for doing something 'safe' as much as anyone else and for Tokyoites, under the current status quo (even assuming wind/rain), by far the biggest near-term danger is stress and hysteria.

I hope the best for everyone. I hope it all goes away magically. I expect it won't. I expect we will see substantial noise over the next weeks and months and there will be small cycles of panic and 'relief'. The first thing most Tokyo-ites thought about the earthquake last night was not "gee I hope this doesn't knock down buildings in Miyagi which survived but were weakened by the last quake" but "geez I hope nothing happens to that plant." I hope there is no significantly large incident. Even if there was a significantly large incident, my understanding, from all my study so far, is that the likelihood of something irretrievably bad happening to me and my family near-term (with no ability for me to affect that outcome with some lead time) is very small.

The risk is not zero and, as some are fond of saying, there are no time-outs or do-overs with radiation. I also recognize there are no do-overs in skydiving, deep-scuba, motorcycle accidents, airplane crashes, cigarette smoking, shark photography, big wave surfing, car breakdowns in remote northern areas in the middle of winter, polar-bear-wrestling, free-diving, being a radiation worker in a US power plant, working in a coal mine, being a fisherman, logger, roofer, airline pilot, or trucker.

But just as I watch against normalcy bias, I also keep watch against hysteria bias, and overhyping the likelihood of something bad happening to you if you see it and talk about it.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:00 | 1144132 Jimmy Carter wa...
Jimmy Carter was right's picture

Thanks for this Jim, I think you nailed it.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:04 | 1144137 Jimmy Carter wa...
Jimmy Carter was right's picture

Good work Jim, thanks for the frank assessment

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 19:58 | 1143374 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Yellow rain = pollen. Got it?

Black rain = liquorice. Got it?

Radiation pre 2011 = bad. Radiation 2011 and beyond = good. Got it?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:28 | 1143480 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Dig a 1 sqft patch of turf out of your back yard. Got it?

Place it in your freezer. Got it?

Wait about one year and repeat and then test for radiation. Got it?

Sue for a free Toyota or Lexus from TEPCO's new owners... . Get it?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 21:45 | 1143721 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

TEPCO do have a Heart after all 

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 21:41 | 1143726 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

TEPCO do have a Heart after all - They are offering displaced people, affected by this disaster a Ex Gratia payment -Yep true, a whopping Y1000 ($11.76c). They stress that this will in no way detract from a full compensation package that will be forthcoming. I'm guessing it will be funded by the very same people they screwed over.

And you thought Corporations didn't care for the people they hurt

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:07 | 1143393 ucbanpo
ucbanpo's picture

I can tell you this. Many Koreans don't trust the Lee administration and major mainstream medias. Just like the US, as alternative medias have revealed this situation, they are really worrying about it. Moreover, we will put the current president Lee in jail after 2012 election. The Cheonan ship sinking was made up by the current administration, possibly with the help of the U.S. as S.Korea is a semi colony of the US.

This website is where I usually go to although it doesn't provide English version.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:47 | 1143505 toxic8
toxic8's picture



It is good to hear that Koreans are distrusting of the administration/media [which are probably in bed anyway, same as here in the US]

I remember reading somewhere that KRNs are not too fond of military personel, especially with the persistent US presence .. and Young Korean Goons (YKGs) will proceed to go OLDBOY on flat-top military looking types dumb enough to happen to stumble by themselves  .. (I think the military enforces a buddy system rule)


Anyway, I am very curious as to a Korean national's view on the sinking of the Cheonan.


What did it accomplish, exactly? No direct action was taken against N Korea. Was it election time politics..or .. it was a pretty big false flag operation, several dozen killed if I am not mistaken.


At least going by the American Standard, for example the Gulf of Tonkin incident .. when we false flag with that magnitude the 'reaction' or 'solution' is equally grave..

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:05 | 1143789 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

In happier MSM news:

Glenn Beck later this year will end his Fox News Channel talk show, which has sunk in the ratings and has suffered from an advertiser boycott.

Read more:
Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:05 | 1143396 truont
truont's picture

the Standard Operating Procedure following the Fukushima fallout so far has been: 1) deny, 2), deny 3) deny,

These "leaders" are not interested in telling us the truth.

Lisa Jackson, head of the EPA, cautioned one interviewer that she needed to strike a balance between the truth and causing a panic, regarding the Gulf Oil Spill.

In other words, "You can't handle the truth, proles".

We are not people to the elite.

We are cows.  We are livestock.  Every day, they milk us, and send us back to graze.  We are valuable, but not as people.  We are valuable to the elite as cows and livestock are valuable to a farmer.

Our leaders will do anything to avoid a panic.  If the cows all run for the fence at the same time, the fence will not hold.  So our leaders will placate us, so they can continue to milk us.  Besides, by the time we get cancer, there will be a new generation to replace our lost output. 

"Don't panic, little people.  Don't worry."

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:19 | 1143448 espirit
espirit's picture

"Hold still Coppertop". (Matrix)

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 21:38 | 1143706 knukles
knukles's picture

And the administrative branch of our representatives of the American people are being more honest, open and pro-active than the Koreans? 

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:07 | 1143799 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

I think he's got it.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:16 | 1143826 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

I was once a compatriot of the Elight, but was never a member.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 06:38 | 1144539 franzpick
franzpick's picture

Why create trouble when it's so easy for our leaders to do anything to avoid a panic?  Here's why:

The most accurate earthquake prediction ever made was in Haicheng, China on Feb. 4th, 1975, when unusual animal and insect behavior, well-water level changes, radon gas emissions and a sudden cessation of EQ activity prompted officials to order 1,000,000 residents out of their homes into the winter snow, saving 100s of thousands of lives when a 7.3 EQ leveled much of the dwellings 5 hours later.

American science in general, and self-aggrandizing, overlapping, federal emergency cabals in particular will never reach any decision level such as saved these Chinese lives.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:04 | 1143398 drchris
drchris's picture

Enjoy your kimch(131)i.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:19 | 1143452 Sweet Chicken
Sweet Chicken's picture

Clever. :)

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 03:14 | 1144416 Eric Cartman
Eric Cartman's picture


Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:07 | 1143403 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I posted this in another thread but it was toward the end and kind of got burried. I figured I'd wait to repost on a more topic appropriate thread:

"I think I figured out what that hole in the roof of that one building is and I don't think anything fell in it. I think something (fuel assembly?) skipped off the top of it.

Look in the water, 5th photo down.

Look in the water. The shape of the hole literally points to it.

It also appears to have the "wafer" like outline in it.

Would also explain radiation levels being 10,000,000 x's higher than normal in the sea water."

The idea could be completely wrong but definately worth a look and feedback from fellow posters.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:24 | 1143461 espirit
espirit's picture


Looked at the photo for the 4th time at the link you posted, and still can't see the object in the water. Seems I'd seen an uncropped photo somewhere showing an object in the water (without supposition). Better pic?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:32 | 1143493 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

It is the photo above the red airplane.

You will see 4 "bastion" type concrete fingers jettisoning out that extend themselves along the water line (at the bottom of the photo) If you look in front of the middle one, you will see an object that is rectangular with wafer like characteristics submerged in the water.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:38 | 1143519 espirit
espirit's picture

Thanks, will recheck. Also a link to Chris Martenson's photos...

Yuk - had to wade through all the trolls to find it.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 21:00 | 1143598 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Please be kind and wipe you feet of any troll residue before reentering ZH. Troll pieces stink to high heaven after 3 to 5 days in the brilliant ZH sun.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:23 | 1143828 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

CogD -

Do you at least see what I'm talking about?

....anyone here see it?

This is a financial site right? We can identify channels? There are 2 channels on that roof and 1 of them is directly linear to where that object in the water is.

Draw some freakin' trendlines. It makes perfect sense.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:26 | 1143846 espirit
espirit's picture

Since I'd thought I'd seen it in an earlier photo, could it be a rod holder from a previous install? Left to cool?

Just a hypothetical concept, or not.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:45 | 1143895 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

My GUESS (emphasis on the guess) is that it is a spent fuel assembly (one that was in the upper part of the reactor). When the fucker blew that 1 assembly ended up in the water right there via the evidence I presented above.

However, I think there might be two in the water with only that 1 visible.

There are two blast channels over the roof of that building.

Again, I don't know for sure, I can just look at the evidence. The radiation in that water is 10,000,000 times normal so my thesis really makes sense.

All the pieces fit.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 23:01 | 1143955 espirit
espirit's picture

Also consider this... What power plant is 12 klicks south of Fukushima?

Is that like... in the safe zone?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 23:27 | 1144023 espirit
espirit's picture

All pics of a working nuke pool do show same similarities. Wish we had that overhead pic. 

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 23:23 | 1144010 espirit
espirit's picture

+1 lol

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:45 | 1143537 espirit
espirit's picture

Got it. Saw it on Google Earth before the "event", and it has a much better pic.

The plant is covered in clouds (how convenient), and the object is clearer but not reassuring.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:50 | 1143556 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Post a pic (or link to)

I'm looking @ google earth right now from before the event and definately do not see it

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 21:52 | 1143719 espirit
espirit's picture

Bah- all my maps are now post mortem, Google on March 19 and EDIS about the same.  Rez also degraded.

There was another site listed here on ZH with a link to detailed maps, found my son's base clear as day in the ME. Will keep looking.

I recall the object in question because of the greenish hue, but thought better not to mention.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 23:48 | 1144085 espirit
espirit's picture

Could possibly be a wharf building in the water.

More pics... TBD.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 10:32 | 1145058 That Peak Oil Guy
That Peak Oil Guy's picture

Bob, this pic from the time between the tsunami and the explosions seems to show that structure in the water, though it is hard to make out to be sure:


Thu, 04/07/2011 - 10:59 | 1145220 joshbot
joshbot's picture


I think you might be on to something Bob.  I've been looking through images on google image with a search entry of "before fukushima" and can't find the thing in the water before the tsunami.  The possibility that it could be debris from the surrounding area washed in by the tsunami isn't impossible.  That said, the protective wall that extends out into the ocean and lack of other large pieces of tsunami debri lend credit to your idea.  Here's a high def of the area before...  Thanks for your tip!

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:09 | 1143408 nodoctor
nodoctor's picture

This will be a convenient result of the government shutdown - no EPA, NOAA, CDC, etc. to monitor and advise/lie about the radiation risks...

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:07 | 1143409 Fortune
Fortune's picture

I'm in Korea now in the countryside. I ain't going outside. Fuck it.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:10 | 1143415 espirit
espirit's picture

Looks like a blackout on the Nightly News, as not one word mentioned on mankinds most ongoing tragedy.

Tree hits car, American Idol, Dancing with the Stars, and Survivor (not Fukushima) seem to be the only newsworthy items.

Unfortunately, we as a species will probably reap what we have sown. 

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:12 | 1143422 espirit
espirit's picture

Hit the mainstream where it hurts most...

Radioactive Hundai's - bitchezzz.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:24 | 1143843 Mr. Mandelbrot
Mr. Mandelbrot's picture

and don't forget that, omg, Prince William is NOT going to wear a wedding band after the royal wedding of the century . . .

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:15 | 1143427 You Lie
You Lie's picture

It passed over the whole of Japan as well.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:16 | 1143437 FischerBlack
FischerBlack's picture

Landlocked? Korea? What are you talking about?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 23:22 | 1144013 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Well, other than the Yellow Sea and the Sea of Japan, it would be.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:16 | 1143441 antidisestablis...
antidisestablishmentarianismishness's picture

Looks like China has turned on its new top secret anti-radiation force field.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:17 | 1143445 unionbroker
unionbroker's picture

i think "land locked" is meant to mean that the Koreans have no overland means of travelling without going through n. Korea which is not going to happen 

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:23 | 1143459 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

Oh, look! Look there! What is that? Black smoke is rising again! But not in Japan. Just El Colonel burning the oil fields of the rebels. Oh wait, I am sorry. Just the Brits dropping bombs on a major oil field. WTI or WTF?


Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:29 | 1143486 TIMMAYYY
TIMMAYYY's picture

good old dave just laughing at the poor again.

apparently uk knew exactly what it was doing...yeah, i was shocked too

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:29 | 1143485 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Japan's 3/11/11 Mega 9.1 Earthquake: Another Illuminati Production?

Update March 17, 2011: ZS Livingstone and Don Nicoloff examine the manufactured March 11 Japan earthquake and the mined nuclear energy plants in Japan which exploded DUE TO SABOTAGE, in this March 16 radio interview on BBS Radio.

Ken Adachi, ZSL, & Don Nicoloff Discuss the Hidden Agenda Behind Japan's Manufactured Earthquake/Radiation Crisis March 24, 2011

Ken Adachi, ZSL, & Don Nicoloff 3rd Conversation on the Manufactured Japan Quake, the Sabotaged Nuclear Reactors, and Sabotaged Radioactive Water and Air Contamination (March 31, 2011)

~ ~ ~

YouTube - The Economic Hitmen (2:08)

YouTube - George Carlin ~ The American Dream (3:14)

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:46 | 1143527 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Here... let me help you since you seem to be suffering from critical thinking deficit disorder.

Post only the following:

YouTube - The Economic Hitmen (2:08)

YouTube - George Carlin ~ The American Dream (3:14)


Now do yourself a huge favor and forget the rest will you.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:55 | 1143575 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

“critical thinking deficit disorder.” … you say. Stick with the videos then … that’s why I quoted their durations … for those with short(er) attention spans. ;-)

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 21:04 | 1143611 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

That's got my name written all over it!

Last two were great... but you have to give up on 'engineered' mag 9 earthquakes alright?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 21:30 | 1143681 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Tune(d) with the fight club spirit …

House Of pain - Jump Around Music Video

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:38 | 1143853 Element
Element's picture

So ... all those other giant quakes all through 4 billion years of geological history ... this was the illuminati too right?

I mean, how would YOU know the difference between a natural event and some fantasy mechanism? And given the obvious fact that YOU can not tell such things even if you were a geophysics expert, then should you not stfu in the absence of any sort of compelling evidence?

Or is a dumbshit website claim enough to spruik this shite?


This sort of bollocks logik reminds me of when Cyclone Larry hit Innisfail, and Al Gore (then visiting ... to promote his illuminati agenda moovee) claimed it was DEFINITELY due to global warming.

The problem is, a cyclone of EXACTLY the same central pressure and even greater intensity and surge height hit Innisfail back in 1918, and out of the 3,000 homes in that little town, only 12 remained standing after that 1918 storm.

Was that also DEFINITELY anthropogenic global warming then?

Your logik would say yes.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:04 | 1144134 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Drought? Gotta be Man-made Global Warming. Tax carbon dioxide!

Flood? Gotta be Man-made Global Warming. Tax carbon dioxide!

Heat wave? Gotta be Man-made Global Warming. Tax carbon dioxide!

Cold snap? Gotta be Man-made Global Warming. Tax carbon dioxide!

Hurricane/typhoon/cyclone? Gotta be Man-made Global Warming. Tax carbon dioxide!

No wind at all? Gotta be Man-made Global Warming. Tax carbon dioxide!

Ice caps melting? Gotta be Man-made Global Warming. Tax carbon dioxide!

Ice caps freezing again? Gotta be Man-made Global Warming. Tax carbon dioxide!

Bees disappearing? Gotta be Man-made Global Warming. Tax carbon dioxide!

Earthquake on 'ring of fire'? Gotta be Man-made Global Warming. Tax carbon dioxide!

Ice caps melting on Mars? Gotta be Man-made Global Warming. Tax carbon dioxide!

I can accept that Earth may be warming (or cooling) for decades at a time, but I can't accept that we have anywhere near as much impact on this as the Sun's waxing and waning surface activities. In fact, getting mankind to reduce their carbon emissions by some small percentage is analogous to bailing out a sinking ship with a teacup. Cui bono?

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:45 | 1144204 Element
Element's picture

Stop making sense!

Funny thing is the Govt policy of emmisions trading (of Rudd) was predicated on the Global warming lobbys 'climate model' </barf!!> that predicted a hotter and drier Australia. But if you actually looked at aolian (wind-deriven) deposition of sediments in Australia (which is absolutely covered in these) any comtetant geologist could have told Rudd with near certainty that the warmers models were compete garbage. Australia gets much drier as it gets colder, and the green-shooty stuff all dies, and thus sand and dust is (re)-mobilized by the wind, as large high-pressure systems start to sit endlessly over the continent (rather than south of it, like now), and create massive dust storms, and the dust shoews up in New Zealand glaciers.

We KNOW this shit!

It is not a feckin guessing game! The evidence is everywhere and incontravertable that when Australia gets hotter, it gets WETTER.

So we KNEW, with nearly 100% confidence, that the Greenie-warmer model was complete and utter bunk, totally unconstrained by actual physical evidence and imput from no-BS Aust palaeo-environmental specialists and sedimentologists. Totally OPPOSITE to what the evidence very clearly and indisputably shows.

But did the Govt or the media want to know this?


And they STILL don't either! But they were going to pork the national economy on the basis of it ... and the UN consensus! ... which trumps physical evidence!

Then along comes Juia Gizzard, with a carbon-tax to replace emissions trading, based on exactly the same warmer-progaganda and totally failed premises and assertions.

Don-cha hate actual physical evidence!

The Govt and media and greenie-warmers in Australia and the UN sure do.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 00:55 | 1144259 Plumplechook
Plumplechook's picture

Hey Element - enjoying that Koch Kool-aid?  Fucktard.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 01:25 | 1144287 Element
Element's picture

Please explain?

Edit: I junked you, I looked up Koch Kool-aid and have no clue what the fuck you are talking about. I doubt you do either.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 09:11 | 1144787 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Try looking up Koch Industries.  I believe they make industrial Kool-aid.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 22:21 | 1148084 Element
Element's picture

ah, thanks Jim. Love ad-hominims comments from dunderheads unable to express counterpoints.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:28 | 1143492 linrom
linrom's picture

Right over Okinawa.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:32 | 1143500 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

It's land-locked in the sense that the land is locked in by water, just like Hawaii or Taiwan. You can't just run across the water.

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