Rally Killer? German Report Says "EMU States Can't Guarantee Other States' Debt"

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Wed, 02/10/2010 - 10:30 | 224812 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

So Germany ends up bailing out Deutsche Bank when the CDSes all come due instead.

Seems like the same thing to me.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 10:51 | 224846 Assetman
Assetman's picture

If the Germans are resigned to bailout someone, I'm pretty sure they would choose a domestic bank over Greece.  I certainly agree with your sentiments.

I think the reality of the situation is that the Germans are (and should) rightfully demanding an austerity plan for Greece that can actually be enforced-- BEFORE any money is given.

The political situation in Greece is so dicey, though, that forced austerity will not sit well with a workforce realy to go on strike.

I'm not surprised the EU/Greece is exploring the IMF avenue-- but there will be austerity strings attached as well.

If the Greeks were fortunate and managed to get a no conditioned bailout package, I gather the French would be the ones funding it.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:22 | 224885 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

An IMF bailout would make life easier for the EU politically: let greedy yankees/heartless globalists take the stick for all the nasty austerity.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:48 | 224945 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

I agree - any financial arrangements must come after the strikes and riots etc, so the Germans don't get cast as the villains of the piece.

One of the big problems is the highly corrupt union heads in Greece, who see this as an opportunity to increase their personal power and the more they can destabilize the country, the better for them.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:55 | 224964 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Why can't Germany just say FU and declare CDS and CDO contracts as illegal contracts and declare a moratorium for Banks that reside inside German borders?

It seems this crisis is going to make winners out of the ones with political fortitude.

There won't be many winners in this though. Germany could be one of the few and not just be a winner but excel exceedingly.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 12:19 | 225002 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

What's scaring me is that a nation with, what? Half a dozen failed bond auctions? is now the de facto bulwark of this monetary union.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 12:19 | 225003 bokapita
bokapita's picture

If the Greeks were fortunate and managed to get a no conditioned bailout package, I gather the French would be the ones funding it.


What with?

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 15:33 | 225334 Assetman
Assetman's picture

Chesse, wine, and old French Francs, I'd gather. LOL!

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:10 | 224864 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Well if thats the case, the euro will weaken and risk aversion is on again.

I wonder if there is any way the US can step in and help guarantee some greek paper? That would seem like a likely scenario...large hedge fund, sells the CDS's then covers the payments to capture payment over CDS duration.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:57 | 224968 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Or not. Which is why i keep getting pointed to something happening at Deutshce Bank. I don't like some sort of karmic retribution for pumping billions of dollars into germany and hitler and causing a bunch of problems and then making the citizens carry the shame for it when it was all done by 3 freaking banks.

The fact that they are running thier own CIA, KGB type operations outside of the government facade may be opening them up to attack as well.


Wed, 02/10/2010 - 10:37 | 224821 Cursive
Cursive's picture

Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives....

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 10:44 | 224830 Postal
Postal's picture

That's so wrong...


Wed, 02/10/2010 - 10:56 | 224851 IKEA Is Swedish
IKEA Is Swedish's picture

On so many levels...

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:10 | 224863 tpberg7
tpberg7's picture

Guarantee Greek Debt?  A Socratic Fallacy!

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 10:38 | 224823 Going Down
Going Down's picture


Here Comes the Calvary!


IMF help with Greece may be unavoidable

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - If the European Union can't quell concerns over Greece's debt burden, the International Monetary Fund may have to step in, whether or not its help is welcome.



Wed, 02/10/2010 - 10:46 | 224832 perchprism
perchprism's picture


So the US contribution to the IMF via our taxes will be used to bailout Greece.  Great.  That's just swell.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 10:48 | 224837 suteibu
suteibu's picture

Did you really expect any other outcome?  Really?

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 10:59 | 224852 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

And thus another round of Bailout Bingo commences. Who will it be next week? Stay tuned and find out.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 10:46 | 224833 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Rally continues. It MUST continue. Otherwise oh dear.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 10:48 | 224838 nogeithner (not verified)
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:01 | 224853 Missing_Link
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Oh Good Lord  ...  Not Cetin Hakimoglu!!!

Cetin, you already destroyed SeekingAlpha by posting thousands of trolling comments on every single SA post for the last several years.  You're an idiot permabull with no useful insights.

Please, please, moderators  ...  For the love of all things sacred, ban this horrible troll!

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:59 | 224973 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Yeah, it's amazing how you're redirected to their website a few seconds after the page with the chart pops up.

Stinker, me thinks.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 18:41 | 225713 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

What a DICK
redirects are a very good way to make lots of enemies...

Moderators need to kill this slime – showing up several times in every thread now...

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Wed, 02/10/2010 - 10:51 | 224844 Going Down
Going Down's picture


Bloomberg Fail


See Financial Times' page dedicated to news and opinion on Greece.





Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:12 | 224867 infotechsailor
infotechsailor's picture



Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:13 | 224870 nogeithner (not verified)
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:29 | 224898 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Hey this is interesting Greece moved up to #27 in GDP this weeks ranking according to Wikipedia. They must got a big Olive oil order.

Im going to throw a dart to see which little tourist mecca gets the honor of moving the worlds economy around like underwear in a washing machine next. The fun house has many rides. Think my next job will be sprinkling Pixie dust on the Tilt-A- Whirl or barking for the Yak Lady.


Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:30 | 224899 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

PMs crash with the stock market because everyone is selling off to get cash for margin calls? Dollar up!

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:30 | 224901 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

USA on the hook for it all, not just Greece.

Euro at par.  Backed by the full faith and credit.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 12:09 | 224988 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Maybe you missed the announcement. Right before GWB was booted out of office and the idiot in waiting was voted in, GWB announced a new economic sphere of cooperation with Western Europe. Part of the New World Order. What I don't get is that Europe is land locked so how can it become part of Oceania, I always thought it was part of Eurasia. And what will Eastasia think about this?

Oh well, 2 + 2 = .......eh, um, uh, (struggling) 4?

Whew! Finally got it right!

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:34 | 224908 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Could the Big boys actually let things crash by not propping them up to sort of black mail tha EU into a big fat greek bailout? PPT is home cause it's snowing...heh heh

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:35 | 224914 Edna R. Rider
Edna R. Rider's picture

It's my impression the rally was killed back in mid Jan.  Now the goal is to keep the market from crashing.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:39 | 224925 Grand Supercycle
Grand Supercycle's picture


No more counter trend rally: the SP00/DOW downtrend and the USD uptrend reasert their dominance yet again.

This is very bearish for equities.


Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:43 | 224933 HEHEHE
HEHEHE's picture

Why would they set the precedent of bailing out Greece knowing Spain, Portugal, Ireland, and Italy all will come next with hat in hand?  Especially as has been pointed out the German banks have all kinds of bad debts they've yet to recognize and will be crying for a bailout soon enough.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:44 | 224939 georgetown (not verified)
georgetown's picture

Obviously, this is the start of many more bailouts

good articles: http://stocknews.freeoda.com

The next shoe to drop and look out below.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 12:11 | 224991 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

What a crappy way to redirect everone to your lame website.

At least the ZH has original material, all you can do is provide links, most of which I prefer not to read.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:47 | 224944 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Strong bid in all the banks.  For the past nine months, when this has happened on down days, the market ramped up into the close.  Today's question is does this pattern repeat, or does fear of saying a final goodbye to the Dow 10,000 party win out in the end?

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:48 | 224947 mberry8870
mberry8870's picture

This will be interesting. It is clear that Greece will get bailed out by something. I want to know where it stops. The intersection between the idiocy of bailouts and the recognition of the implications of the bailouts will make for a very interesting trading day.


Coming to a movie theater near you, and very soon!

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 12:18 | 225000 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

When you're the Federal Reserve and all you know is Keynesian voodoo (inflation, or the raising of dead markets), and are extremely fearful of deflation, almost to the level of pathalogical paranoia, then bailouts are your soup du jour.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 12:34 | 225004 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

There is no way out of this s..t. If they bail out one country the next week they will have 2 more to bail-out. Who's faster the better, there won't be bailouts for those at the end of the line-up! The same with states, no different situation here. What those guaranties from different governments mean? They have their own debts which have accumulated through decades, they could not even lower their own debt load and now they guarantee somebody elses' debt, what a pile of horse manure good for cretins!!! 

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 12:59 | 225066 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

At some point soon, we just have to realize and embrace the fact that we can't keep layering fraud upon fraud, with taxpayer cash dumped on top to keep the plates spinning for another month.

Sooner or later, this whole house of cards NEEDS to come tumbling down, so we can start a REAL and meaningful recovery, not just a pretend one.

We will realize we will have bailed out the world, and are still DEAD BROKE.

Stop the bailout madness and sue/Jail the banksters that got us here!!

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 12:59 | 225068 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

The EU imposes a discipline upon government theft.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 15:13 | 225302 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Germany must get out of the euro. The sooner the better. Then the ECB must be allowed to print and buy PIIGS` debt at will. The Germans will benefit too by repudiating their euro denominated debt. The money they save by not paying government debt will be used to save the banks.

Mon, 04/19/2010 - 10:35 | 307904 Tom123456
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