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Ratigan Discusses The Conflict Between Geithner And Bair On How To Resolve Bank Bailouts And Who Should Pay
Among Dylan's musings on the sham regulatory overhaul proposal, and the behind the scenes political bickering, is this question "Why is it legal for the US banking system to take infinite risk in a financial gambling parlor in secret and use taxpayer assets." We hope readers can provide the answer because unfortunately nobody else seems to be able to. Link also available here.
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As Auric Goldfinger said,,Man has achieved incredible things in medicine, space, and many other human endeavors!! EXCEPT CRIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sheila can take him! Two women enter one woman
leave.
People should pay attention to Dylan's message. It's certainly easier for people to assume everything will be o.k. and the leadership of the country will do the right thing. That's absolutely not the case - the country is going in the wrong direction (maybe irretrievably so). His message today that it has become a casino economy at the expense of small business innovation is absolutely true. The system has to be fundamentally changed. Sadly people are too complacent and are fixated on reality t.v.. This stuff is all too hard for many. We are in big trouble.
Concur
I agree, but my philosophy is a bit different - the sheeple will get what they deserve for being so complacent.
Let them live the lives of debt slaves, for all I care, I don't have the energy to help save those who don't want to save themselves.
They don´t know they need to be saved,...
Until it´s too late
They don´t know they need to be saved,..and won´t until it´s too late
When the Titanic was forty five degrees, people still headed for the bar... Ya just can't save everybody...
It was probably one of the best parties of all time.
yes ultimately the buck stops with the ignorant
voter who for the last 80 years has systematicallly
elected crooks and frauds who have accumulated
80 years of policy sediment which has created
the monster eating us alive....
but on the other hand there is so much election
fraud it's hard to know what people really voted
for....but i do believe that they were frogs
who were cooked to death....
and it is too late and irretrievable short of some
crooks paying with their lives....
the secret service is claiming that blobama is
receiving so many death threats that it has to
stop investigating financial crime to protect the
boy from indonesia (and kenya)....
www.obamacrimes.com
When everyone that runs for office is either completely corrupt, weak minded incompetents or just clueless whats a voter to do?
Society has become corrupt. Corporations and corrupt businessmen rarely go to prison for crimes. Financial crime is most commonly a civil matter and at the core of every political scandal is a corporate contributor well except impeachable offenses like having sex in the Oval office.
"When everyone that runs for office is either completely corrupt, weak minded incompetents or just clueless whats a voter to do?"
Don't vote.
There is no rule making you vote. There is no rule making you vote for someone on the ticket if you decide to vote. A zillion Daffy Duck votes that allows an in-the-pocket bankster flunky to win by default truly creates a lame duck from day one.
But more to my first point, there is no rule making you vote. And don't let anyone give you any of this "if you don't vote you don't have the right to complain" nonsense, because that's what it is. Nonsense. Article Four Section Four guarantees--GUARANTEES--a republican form of government. This means that you have the right to vanish into the hills and meditate as a hermit for ten years and not come back to find the place has become a network of slave camps.
The real problem is that once a system of justice is weak or debauched, the criminal element is emboldened. But it does not follow that because the justice system is corrupt that there is to be no justice. In the past, people have been publicly shamed or prosecuted (examples are being tarred and feathered, run out on rails, put in stocks, or hanged in the town square) and I do believe that whether you call it quaint or brutal does not detract from the fact that the bad guys need to get the message that they are not above it all.
And by bad guys, I'm not just talking about obvious criminals, I'm also talking about the sorts of people who stand before a Justice, and with hand on the bible take a solemn oath to support and defend the Constitution, part of which guarantees that my form of government is not undone and even went so far as to explicitly protect (in plain english no less) certain obvious particular areas of human freedom. They take such an oath and immediately work to undermine it? In front of us on CSPAN? At the podium from the Federal Reserve HQ or some confab at the Council of Foreign Relations? They think that we don't see who they are? They think we'll forget?
Clearly these are people who are not suspecting that a public so motivated won't let a totally debauched justice system get in the way of a little score settling, or if they do perceive it they don't perceive it with the sort of immediacy they should.
We are one good bounce away from blood in the streets. So don't vote. In the presidential vote, it's all decided before the primaries anyway, when the big money decides who the parties will annoint to the semifinals. It's only 16 or so people running at that point, out of over 100M eligible american adults. I mean do the math. If it's at the state level, the 17th Amendment precludes any worry that your choice of two people Senate might dare to protect a state's right against the HQ in DC, and your vote for a "representative" is hardly representative, since there's only one for every 600,000 or so americans. Do the math. Diminishing returns doesn't just apply to finance. If you ARE going to vote, vote in a way that matters. Vote with your wallet. Vote with your feet. And be clever about it, or you just might have to vote with something loud.
AWWW, dont get upset. Vote for Mickey Mouse if thats' how
you feel. But vote. This gets you on jury duty. Then there is a chance to REALLY vote. Amazing how reasonably doubtfull one could get. If faced by the right criminal. Jury Nullification is alive and well.
Your tax return is your vote -you have the most awesome & immediate power whenever you need it.
Sheila Bair looked as depressed and demoralized in the clip they showed as many of us are. The best thing she can do for the country is resign and start telling it like it is.
Wrong. Sheila Bair must hold to her convictions and fight those who would provide socialism to the banksters and promote the fraudulent taking of public funds to enrich the few in the name of saving the economy. If and when she is fired, then she tells the story of the corruption. We must support and defend people like her.
I knew something was wrong when I found myself liking her, now it comes out that the loony bin administration wants to do away her, sigh.
Sadly, it looks like Sheila Bair's fate will be similar to that of Brooksley Born. Look at who she's up against... Geitner (was Rubin's right hand man), Summers, and Bernanke.
Why do they get to take infinite risk? Easy.
Because if they aren't allowed to, we will have financial Armageddon.
Or something like that.
link?
IMHO, he really needs to be much more over the top, factually calling the congressman idiots, insane, stupid, illogical........He should ask simple 1+1 questions get an answer than swing to real issues and slam them up against the wall............The facts are you can issue TARP over a weekend, and yet one year later, no accounting no reforms, actions speak louder than words, always, either congress does not care about voters, can't do simple math, or the real constituent is the lobbyist.
Is there supposed to be a video? No link here.
What they are doing is legalized crime. They have gained ground over the years while the sheep were asleep and now we are paying for it. There are 600 million guns in this country. People are waking up and talking about these issues every day. Something big is going to happen and it's going to be good. Good for freedom and good for liberty.
OT
Ethics investigators probe dozens in Congress.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33546194/ns/politics-washington_post/
How does it feel to be "probed" assholes?
I'm eagerly awaiting the Sheila Bair sex tape.
Can someone call Tim Seymour and Joe Teranova and find out what's going on in the market? They said it was going to go up.
"Why is it legal for the US banking system to take infinite risk in a financial gambling parlor in secret and use taxpayer assets."
It is legal because they bought the lawmakers.
With money created out of thin air no less!
"With money created out of thin air no less!"
And thus an apt reminder that legal is not necessarily the same thing as Lawful.
It shouldn't it be!!! Reinstate Glass Steagall before we have armageddon and tell the investment banks to go f*** themselves.
It shouldn't it be!!! Reinstate Glass Steagall before we have armageddon and tell the investment banks to go f*** themselves.
It shouldn't it be!!! Reinstate Glass Steagall before we have armageddon and tell the investment banks to go f*** themselves.
Geithner needs to be replaced, immediately.
In fact, I think I will write my congresscritters and tell them I will not vote Democrat in the 2010 elections as long as that asshole is still around.
Not that I would vote for them anyway, but they don't know that...
Geithner is a TURD. BTW, so is the ENTIRE Team Obama.
Gold:SPX ratio getting ready to blast through 1.0 again. Gold beginning to diverge from equities.
"Why is it legal for the US banking system to take infinite risk in a financial gambling parlor in secret and use taxpayer assets."
Impunity, n.Wealth. — Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary It is legal because they say it is legal. What are you going to do about it? Yea, thought so.
Hmmm.... let's see learning tactical shooting and sniping. Next leg down open season on bankers, get your guns and get ready. Watching a banker's head explode from 500 yards would be sweet justice.
Hmmm.... let's see learning tactical shooting and sniping. Next leg down open season on bankers, get your guns and get ready. Watching a banker's head explode from 500 yards would be sweet justice.
From my admittedly limited perspective this whole sorry episode rests upon the perversion of the rule of law and the dominate philosophy of judicial exclusion. Once again, I quote Cas Sunstein, key Obama adviser and potential SCOTUS nominee. I must note that Sunstein by no means reflects a "partisan" position here as has been made abundantly clear over these past few administrations.
Prosecuting government officials risks a “cycle” of criminalizing public service, [Sunstein] argued, and Democrats should avoid replicating retributive efforts like the impeachment of President Clinton — or even the “slight appearance” of it.
Note to reader, I spent my entire professional life in public service at DOD & DOJ so this is a view from the inside so to speak.
http://jonathanturley.org/2008/07/21/obama-adviser-cass-sunstein-rejects...
This concept of judicial exclusion has been broadened to include the key personnel of corporations and the corporations themselves (that is IF a corporation actually has the same rights as an individual before the bar of justice, a separate question for the moment) deemed by the POTUS as systemically important to the economic or national security of the United States.
In essence, what we have here folks is a characterization of the banks and the government that has assumed the risk profile of these banks as some sort of 1,000 pound men, unable to move without assistance, who have suckered everyone else into the idea that if anything is done to move these overweight, unhealthy "persons" to health they will have a heart attack and kill us all since they sit upon the crossroads of commerce and have sold most folks the idea that they are the heart of the nation and indeed the world. Given these "objective" circumstance the government, beholden to the 1,000 pound persons will do everything to make the rest of us carry them so as to save them the indignity of actually addressing their morbid obesity and the cycle of codependency that enables them both/all to remain so fat.
Cheers & Jeers
A few talking points. Please hear me out;
So is the "cycle" an admission that both parties are equally corrupt? an unwritten rule not upset the apple cart? In retrospect though, Nixon's road was one massive "cycle" during the hearings, and to a point, justice was served.
Sunstein's remarks do not serve the nation and he knows it. Judicial exclusion from a Law Professor, we are a nation of laws and he is a fool.
Obama stated these words during his oath of office:
will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
Obama understands the meaning of the words. He knows right from wrong. If he chooses to violate his oath, violate the trust placed in him, he should be impeached and quickly.
Moving on:
"Systemic importance to the economic or national security of the United States".
Does Obama know what is important for the US? I ponder this question a lot.
Maybe you can help with some questions, only looking for your opinion working at the DOJ.
Thanks,
What will the POTUS do when we start to have failed Treasury Auctions triggered by loss of confidence created by his own flawed fiscal policy?
What has the POTUS done to even recognize systemic importance to the economy (debt deleveraging), or the dollar (QE)?
Why does the POTUS not recognize that a currency crisis is a national security threat?
Next,
Risk profile of the banks. Hmmmm.
Perhaps there is no risk profile when you control the NY FED and Treasury? not to mention that you have the politicians in your back pocket. Pure speculation on my part?
What risk do you speak of?
All for now.
Mark Beck
Mark Beck - Such a considered response I believe warrants a considered response in return. Please check back at your leisure late this evening or during the day tomorrow.
All The Best
Mark - Oaths and what some smart person should know have little to do with the political or economic process in the United States. Anything beyond that is mind reading.
Threat recognition process has very much to do with the world view of those a POTUS surrounds themselves with. Look at the advisers, know the policy formulation. Simple.
The risks I speak of surround trillions in off balance sheet and OTC swap exposure. Exposure many times the world GDP. I am not an expert, however I challenge anyone to show me an economic model that is sustainable beyond the creative and carrying capacity of those encompassed by that system. To maintain the exponential growth curve in the debt wave our policy makers have resorted to pulling forward and monetizing every future income stream that can be. This is not a sustainable system and I strongly believe that the debt wave will have its way.
First last. There may have been some small semblance of justice then. However, the operative phrase then as now remains; "When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow". I submit that the more recent holders of the COS office have been, for the most part far better operators than Colson ever was. The fact remains that unless or until the movers behind the JPM and GS nominees exert their will to corral the monster the song will remain the same. In this I suspect that Obama could well be a suitable means to that end IF he is willing to do what must be done. Big questions there.
Hope this helps in some small way.
Change you can believe in. I hope all shit'bama supporters are proud of themselves for hving supported this sack of shit
the big companies buy up smaller companies until they go broke and expect the government to bail them out. The government's first response should be, "give back the smaller companies", then we'll talk. Otherwise, it becomes a back door government plan to take over the industry, and destroy free enterprise.
This morning I couldn't believe it, but we discussed buying a gun. Now I have never in my life done that, hate em, don't want, don't hunt. The problem is I have been in business for 30 years and been threw two situations where the powers upstairs tried every which way to prop things up. First comes sales, ie, must sell more, thus they incentivise sales not profit, and low and behold you end up with profitless work but you bill forward and rob peter too pay paul. One made it thru by being bought out, the other by breaking up and selling the pieces. Both times I sat there dumbfounded like wtf do these people think will happen, each time my conclusion was that they know, they are just taking orders from higher above until the merry go round stops. Like others I do not know when things will stop, but all of the actions are similar and feels the same, not a good place to be. Both times I kept my mouth shut and did my best. There was always another opportunity around the corner, this time there will be also, just don't know what. lol, No decision on gun, yet, it is not off the table. Our general analysis is that Ben will keep the gates aflowing somehow, and prolong things for several more months, yet, for the life of me I don't know how.
"Why is it legal for the US banking system to take infinite risk in a financial gambling parlor in secret and use taxpayer assets."
Probably because our economy would be 1/3 of its current size wothout it. Welcome to the Ponzi world. Bend over and take it like a man.
Most of us here prefer to stand thank you very much. Go ahead and bend over if that is your thing lovejoy.
However you want to call the kettle black. Your call. The Ponzi scheme is going to be difficult to unwrap. Our problem is that this economy does sustain us taxpayers unless it is growing north of 4% pa. So we need to implement some measures that help the taxpayers and not the bankers. A payroll tax holiday would be a great idea -- let the money longing to the taxpayers be used by the taxpayers. Having the Government offer a job to everyone who is willing to accept $8 an hour plus health benefits would also be a good idea. Companies are reluctant to hire those who have been unemployed for some time. So this would assist these workers taking jobs in the private sector at a latter date. It will also give us an indication as to what our real full employment rate is. It may drive up the deficit, but not if their is real productivity. Socialism 101 ... no, that is not the goal. The goal is to achieve the right aggregate demand to support full employment and have all of us being content campers.
Indeed
Toss in a parallel competing currency or currencies, non-fiat, intrinsic backing or proof of intrinsic backing, and have ourselves a little Gresham experiment.
Possibly you are correct regarding the size of the economy to be 1/3rd its current size, but...
all those debt-financed billionaires are truly the problem (along with the subset of debt-financed multimillionaires) --- so, the correct arithmetical solution would be to seize their assets, funnel it to the working people and small businesses, and put the guilty in jail.
The constant talk of more education and innovation saving this economy are pure twaddle, as many have noted, for without real job demand such is a colossal con game, simply more educated people going dumpster diving and serving fries at MickeyD's.
Like the sixth sense kid, I just see dead people now.
(a) The showy, status addicted GQ type who make good money but spent well beyond anyhow, and can't make the move down. High specialized skill set which might not do so well in 20 months
(b) The sweet sunday school mother's who work hard everyday to make that 50's image lifestyle. Kindly, generous hearted, and soon to be tragically broke.
(c) The everyday salesman looking pekid and hollow, but whispering to himself that "everything is on the mend".
(d) The gen-x set full of optimism and drive who bought it all on credit, got as big a home as could, MEWed it to startup a business (some niche health club or active lifestyle retailer). Burned through all the working capital and credit lines and is facing dwindling revenue. Comes home to wife and kids everynight trying to stay upbeat.
(e) Professional who tried to do everything right but still got caught mid-career with savings all in markets and maybe 30% equity buildup in house. Sees the downsizing, discretionary and even essential spending falling. And he's not ready enough.
(f) The ne'er-do-well who loafed through life, sponging off relatives and the occasional job, used to living lean but always thought the good times'd roll. He's about to touch the third rail.
Pretty bleak, but we're all a ship of fools.
Here is another problem that no one wants to address because rose-colored glasses world is so much more comforting: http://www.afs-seminars.com/newsletter_Oct_2009.html
First on Geithner;
Geithner will have to extend TARP beyond the end of the year. It is one of his last sustained bailout tools he has. He can play around with the balances because the FED will provide offsets through the banks and the GSEs. To say he is opposed to any more bank bailouts is astonishing (and a lie) given the banking environment, purely political.
Not to be a Bair basher but;
I need more data on Bair before I draw any conclusions. Lets look beneath the new receivership powers of the FDIC, in relation to loan loses and claims, and the amounts being subsidized by the Treasury FDIC lifeline. Insuring deposits is one thing, being a clearing house for bad loan portfolios at tax payer expense is another.
Another FDIC role:
examining and supervising financial institutions for safety and soundness and consumer protection
Safety and soundness? Consumer protection? I wonder if Bair's credit rates went to 29.9% APR.
OK so Geithner's ideas are reprehensible compared to Bair, but her performance is not good, it is just less bad.
I watched that video and all I can say is, "Thank God we have honest men like Henry Blodget!"
hi-point 9mm semi automatic pistol, under 170$ if you never use it great if you need to you can trade or sell it later. if it gets lost or stolen, you're not out too much. don't forget the ammo.
Henry "Mr. $400 price target" Blodget is now an expert on the banking system?
Paul Volker and David Einhorn are the only ones that seem to advocate capitalism i.e. let 'em fail.