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Reactor 1 Core Has Passed 400 Degrees Celsius
From Yomiuri online:
Translated:
Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry at a press conference Friday morning, the day before the No. 1 nuclear power plant in Fukushima Daiichi TEPCO announced that it was found that the temperature of 400 degrees in a nuclear reactor.
This was at 380 degrees a few hours back.
Readers can make their own conclusions.
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thank God the gauges are plugged in functioning! Now we KNOW we should....
Would love to know how they get accurate readings from a plant whose infrastructure systems have been blown to shreds?
Yeah, well, just keep thinking about that ... never mind MOST of what's been blown up (this ain't Hollywood kid) is external, on the outside ... we've not seen one picture of what still exists inside conduits and pipe tunnels running between the reactor building and the control building.
You've got to think more than just 'skin deep' Michael.
what the crap?! MUST WATCH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXPN4dfBAGU
that was unbelievable.
was it a joke or an official publication?
a joke, right?
You should see the one that's the reactor operator instruction cartoon with Mr. Penis and the Yamaguchi Cupcake twins. Inspirational; usually viewed late evening during drunken Karioke reactor operator continuing education and stag parties.
Not clear whether it's the reactor or the SFP that reached 400C (or both?):
http://wallstreetpit.com/68105-fukushimas-reactor-1-core-reaches-400-deg...
The current situation at Japan’s Fukushima nuclear plant remains serious and unstable. Graham Andrew, Special Adviser to the IAEA Director General on Scientific and Technical Affairs, said that while there continues to be some improvements, the overall situation at the nuclear station is still “very serious”.
Another negative development in the world’s worst nuclear crisis in a quarter of a century is that the temperature at the spent fuel pools at Reactor No. 1 has reached 400 degrees celsius. This was at 380-390 degrees a few hours back.
was it a joke NO Way
At 57 I never trust a Fart :))))))
Wow. They're now advising the CHILDREN to pray. That's got to be the very last resort.
news today that the total cost of Japan reconstruction will be 383 billion $..
seems ridiculus low to me...
Desparaton.
What makes you think they would have to rely on the infrastructer of the plant to take a temperature reading?
You see, this is what happens when libertarians burn all them school-learnin' books...
+451C
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yet19T2P8o
thermometers or thermocouples are just 2 wires, difficult to damage. What about pressure gauges and other controls?
Don't bother chimp man, the doomers will negate any reasonable comments that you make.
>>thermometers or thermocouples are just 2 wires, difficult to damage.
Allow me to introduce you to a stunning new piece of technology called: the wirecutter.
I'm actually hopeing it was 400 degrees a few hours ago. 40 year old building mean k-type thermocouple. the Curie point for k-type thermocouples is 354C. someone relized this and did the adjustment. If there not redoing the math those reading are gonna become even less informative.
The Curie point would be factored into the conversion polynomial for a given thermocouple, and even crappy K-type thermocouples will be accurate to +- 8C at 1000C. However, I haven't seen any mention of exactly what is being measured, or how.
Anyone find it disconcerting that the temperatures reported are above the critical temperature of water (374C) as well as above the boiling point of boric acid (300C)!? Everything they might be pumping in is flashed and must be vented straight to atmosphere.
I just wish they'd turn that telephoto camera back on so we can see footage of the mushroom cloud when it blows.
Fricken' captcha! What's -16 times 30 in three chars or less?
8 x 60 with a - in front, or 8 x 6 with a - in front and a 0 after. ;)
Excel... life's a breeze...
Or this: http://www.calculator-tab.com/
oops, sry- 3 chars or less. Hmmm, just type "Charlie Sheen" and wait for the nest captcha.
I thought Charlie had more than 3 characters.
... just counting the ones in his own head.
Just press 'save' again, no need to re-captcha.
frustrating isnt it. i would "junk" the captcha if that option was available
lol. I know exactly how you feel. The captcha algorithm is screwed up and doesn't know how to do basic math. I just ignore the errors and everything seems to post ok... :)
Just stay logged on.
As you move closer from Tyler, you will be a trusted man, and manage without captcha.
(That will not happen if you're a JPM sucker, though)
What's -16 times 30 in three chars or less?
Tell me your preference and I will char it to specification.
I like it well done.
A 12 bit signed hexadecimal could express that answer... next time I'll answer in hex.
The caputure will accept 'FU' and let those who are blessed in.
Ya didn't know that hey
Plugged? Even your mechanic use a laser thermometer, for remote reading of cylinders temp.
The con is everywhere. The sheeple is intensively fucked.
Obama still playing basketball?
Don't forget the Light are on - pity no ones home
(20C + n) * ? = FUCKED
almost... you forgot to include that it's radioactive.
it would actually equal 2 but for a long time.
400C is 752 F. Getting toasty.
at some point the electricals start melting.
I guess the one good thing is Rac 1 is still holding pressure.
A monkey will soon open the release valve, bitchez. That's for your well-being; the Japaneses want it, and they will take it.
That's okay. 400C is actually 15C now in Japanese Centrigade.
No worries, Earth is no longer a planet, so none of this matters.
Ya, soon to be star..
Yeah, my balls might one-day coalesce into a Stars of their own.
But can they dance. Pop culture here really needs something spicy to distract from the present. Are your balls/Stars spicy? Fuck it, someone call dancing with the...balls? ...And someone get me AC/DC!!!
Gives a whole new meaning to "Dancing with the Stars"
It's true, everything is under control. We have lied in the past, we continue to lie, and we'll lie again and again, and again until blood flows from our noses. Deny, deny, deny. Your lives are in our hands, so relax.
At a rate of say 20C every four hours under current cooling efforts... 120 C per 24 hours.
How long before the Metals fail under both Heat stress and Fatique from pressures of both cooling and heating as well as whatever else may be on it.
3 days? A week?
It's to me we have that long, maybe to get it coming down or buried before it goes.
The zirconium alloy that makes the fuel rods melts at 1855C.
I doubt the temperature increase will be linear, it will likely accelerate since the hotter it is the fast any remaining coolant is boiled off, but...
1855-400=1455. 1455/20C per hour = 72 hours. 3 Days.
Say, Friday, after market close?
I'll take the under, FWIW.
I wonder what they're measuring. What if this is on the surface of the containment steel? How could they possibly know the core temperature - they don't seem to know anything else about the inside of their reactors.
Interesting item at Wikipedia, just added:
On 17 March, KyivPost reported that a Ukrainian group of specialists who were involved in the aftermath of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster proposed low-melting and chemically neutral metal, such as tin, to cool the fuel rods even if molten or damaged. [263]
Chopped tin can be injected in the reactor through the existing cooling water pipes with compressed inert gas, helium or argon. Melted tin creates a crust (low vapor pressure), cools the reactor and delays the decay products recovery. Liquid metal cooled reactors need no pump which makes them long-term capable.
This was proposed by a team of Ukrainian scientists who notified the Japanese Govt and offered to come and deploy chopped tin.
Actually it sounds good the only problem how to deliver chopped tin to the reactor.
If you can deliver "chopped tin," you can also likely deliver water, which from a practical standpoint, works pretty well.
Sounds like a Junk shot for reactors
and radioactive too!
Yes I will put money down on Friday sometime. Maybe Thursday night while we are asleep.
Especially if the other ZH'ers are saying the metals are starting to liquidfy or sag under the stress.
Actually, it's 20C every 4 hours, not every hour, so make it 12 days.
See? Nothing to worry about at all! :)
It would seem that the people of Tokyo etc, have become the proverbial frog in a pan of water on the stove with the temperature slowly rising.
Everyday brings ominous new developments. Don't eat this, don't drink that. The wise frog/inhabitant would be well advised to jump sooner rather than later for,on the day when it gets too hot to stay, it will be impossible to leave.
the reactor vessel will lose strength first.
That steel weakens before the zirconium melts.
'under-taker'? *groan*
I am someone who can offer little knowledge re nuclear power, radioactivity, etc.
But, it does now seem like Fukushima really is going to be a catastrophe, ¨Japan´s Chernobyl¨. On top of the earthquake and tsunami lives lost and horrific economic costs. How terrible for them.
So why is it taking so long to get the power hooked back up?
They didn't have the right plug adapter for the extension cord.
add to that the occasional rumble from the aftershocks...
DOH! PHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUK MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
So on Friday last week the temp was higher? Now its lower?
Thankfully the human toll is worse than the economic toll.
-Larry Kudlow
Yeah that old raisin needs to hang up her Perma Bull BS Tie.
My god man, Please institute a Logans Run style world.
Hey I'd be toast too, but at least I would know it would be run by the young, quick thinking, group, NOT THE F'N RETARDED MOUTH DROOLING OLD PEOPLE WHO HAVE SO MANY SCREWS LOOSE who F' THE YOUNG IN SO MANY WAYS.
I ask the YOUTH OF THE WORLD TO TAKE CONTROL..... !!!!!!!!
If you're over 45 you're GONE.
Move aside and let the sharpest tacks do the thinking.
To see the OLD GUARD, OLD RAISINS IN THE US HOUSE AND SENATE it just makes me puke. GO AWAY OLD A'HOLES who are too old to even give a rats ass about anything and are just bought by the lobbyists. GO PHHHHUUUCK YOURSELVES!
LOGANS RUN it's the ONLY WAY AT THIS POINT.
DON'T JUST LAY THERE AND LET THESE OLD JACKWADS PHUCK UP YOUR FUTURE!
LOGANS RUN BITCHEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I always thought Amy Agutter, the female lead in the movie version, was totally hot.
Yea all you old corrupt politicians, you've had your shot. Time to let some young corrupt politicians take over!
who F' THE YOUNG IN SO MANY WAYS.
You ought to try it. It is so much fun in so many ways.
@ SparkyvonBellagio
I'm an old Fart - but if you have the time go back to the beginning of all this Fuck u shima shit.
I got it right first time. explained what happened with the UPS generators and AC pumps and ended "thus endith the lesson in cause and effect"
Got it right when they bombed with water - it will fall and drain to the ocean.
So Fuck you - Intelligence is not a diminishing factor of age.
And Yes I am Banging a 27year old Forensic Accountant while your doing your fist over pages of Playboy.
Did I mention - Fuck you - yes you - you with the brains of a smashed crab
perhaps if you were a little younger you'd have caught whoever it was that caused you to have to hire a forensic accounting in the 1st place.. and the question, who's fucking who ? You sure she isnt fucking you ?
I did read that right didn't I?
From the mouth and mind of a financial banker troll !!!
I'd like to slap his face... real hard !
Link to video?
A little too hot for a weenie roast.
Assume the Position!
Dude, who let the Gimp loose in Tokyo?
Head to the Govt/TEPCO/Hitachi offices Gimp dude.
No problemo. The acceptable temperature has been raised to 4000 C.
Sounds bullish...
Sounds like the perfect temperature to burn more money.
Cue BoJ intervention in 5...4...3...2...
Agreud. This is bullish.
Is this possible without fission?
The China syndrome is starting to look like the good outcome.
"Captain! She's a'going to blow! ... I don't know if she can take any more!" -- Scotty, Chief Engineer
Those things can get pretty hot. Rising temperature is not a good sign for sure. What is the core made of and it's melting point? I think the material can get thousands of degrees and melt through anything manmade -- ie China Syndrome where it doesn't stop.
Wrong. The China syndrome never happened, and never will. It's a little like pouring boiling water in a graveyard, and hoping it will stay hot long enough to make your grandpa in the tomb look like a cooked lobster. Good luck on that.
The reactor could travel maybe 100m in the ground. Even less than that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vpayD5XcPDA#t=43s
How long does it take these things to friggin cool down when you simply pull the plug - this is like watching a slow train wreck...
Great post.
How long after you scram the reactor?
Did they not say something the first day or two just after the quake hit (9.0 or whatever) that Scramming the entire plant was a option that they would rather not use?
They should have done it right then before the power was lost (The Desiels) those reactors would have been cold days ago by now.
The reactors scram'd automatically during the earthquake... at least they were supposed to. The fuel rods will be hot for years. That's why the spent ones are stored in circulating water.
The reactors scrammed automatically when the site accelerometers detected ground vibrations above the trip limit. Scramming a BWR does not get rid of the heat. Think of your car engine, when you turn it off, it builds a heat spike because all that metal is hot, and coolant flow has been lost. In a reactor like this, you have to keep water flowing after it is shut down, or the latent heat keeps building, and feeds on itself.
SCRAM. Start Cutting Right Away Man ... cut the rope that drops control rods into reactor to stop the reaction.
OK, time to fire up Chris Crawford's SCRAM simulation ... if I can get my Atari 800 running.
If the fuel rods are damaged, wouldn't the nuclear fuel pool at the bottom of the reactor? Away from the cooling influence of the control rods?
http://www.giantbomb.com/scram/61-27278/
bullshit.
Unit 1 is 460 MW and 2, 3, 4 and 5 are 768 MW each. Unit 6 is actually 1,100 MW just on its own.
So you see the problem is that even at sub-1% of operating temp, they are powerful motive forces, i.e. heat sinks. Multi-MW heat sources. Which can boil water. And have even heated back up to hold the dang heat again.
In these designs they hold the spent fuel in the onsite pool for 18 months just to let it cool off before moving it to the common fuel pool.
Pulling the "power plug" on this type of reactor is possibly the worst thing you can do, since they have no way of passive cooling to get rid of the latent heat buildup. The "fail safe" - and I use that term disparagingly - feature of these things (GE type one boiling) is to maintain power at all costs. Fukashima had incoming grid power from another source, massive generator capacity, battery backup, and power from the other reactors on the site. It all went down.
Hey hampster - you got that truth right - You ARE watching a slow train wreck.
It is one and it will be remembered as one. One big and costly train wreck.
Tis but a scratch - that is festering until it kills every part of the body its attached too.
Going pretty fast this evening around here. As mentioned a day or so ago, any of these 'hot spots' (reactors or waste pools) can in principle get very hot very fast, then be cooled back down over and over. A cycle of a thousand degrees could, again in principle, happen repeatedly with no catastrophic consequences. But then again.....
What we need is consistent information without spin. Hahahahahahah did I just write that? Gotta switch from coffee to beer now.
No really we need the trend info, the pattern over a longer time, for it to mean much. Plus any associated cooling information. Did the temp kick up with active cooling measures happening? That could indicate a new failure someplace. Was it just sitting with no cooling? Then of course it heats up.
Looks bad, but overall consistent with the picture we have: sacrificing workers and firefighters can keep things cool enough, given luck/no new failures.
A balancing act. With thirteen hot potatoes in the air.
Haven't the cores of the four damaged reactors been continously pumped with seawater to keep them cool since about day 2? Could the rise in temperature now being seen in reactor 1 be due to progressive salt crystal encrustation around the fuel rods making them more difficult to keep cool?
No idea. No one has ever done this before.
LOL. In a very morbid cackle.
The salt water is being sprayed/poured and not pumped. If the containment vessels aren't ruptured then they are under pressure and there is no way that salt water is in them. The pumps haven't run since the 11th. The power that was connected yesterday(?) was meant to restart the pumps but they struck "technical difficulties" and have been unable to pump water into the reactors. Take all of this with a pinch of salt - preferably iodised salt.
Wrong. The water from the firetrucks and choppers is an attempt to fill the spent fuel pools that are above the reactor cores. There is no way that water can get into the cores themselves. The water in the cores is being pumped in manually.
For how long? few monhts or years?
imagine that, you can trust the US government more than Japans
I'd probably trust the Japanese regular Joe citizens more than I'd trust the USA's but you're on to something, they're barely Less of a CLUSTPHUUUUCK of a Group.
However if you use the SEC as a comparative I'd say No, the Japanese Leadership reigns Supreme.
The World went to Hell in a Handbasket and it wasn't because of the Russians or Chinese. Guess they're gonna win the LONG CON AWARD.
LOL
I feel like the USA and Japanese Markets are Past Posting. LOL
As I said earlier:
Anyways, check this out, Fukushima Daiichi 1 had a planned decomissioning date of......
26th March 2011. Co-inky-dink?
Possibbly, eh?
http://www.icjt.org/npp/lokacija.php?drzava=14&kontinent=4
And the ident, my personal hater/troll informed of this:
"No, completely WRONG.
Back in Feb the operating license was extended for 10 years."
Interestign stuff abounds.
And for Hhhhhooomeyyyyyyyy.....
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/interesting-times-sweet-validations/
;-)
ORI
ORI, trollishly expressed or not, there may be something to the extension rumor:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/world/asia/22nuclear.html
Yup CD, he did give a link on prodding, saw it.
Which makes one want to gag harder, ne?
Regulation, such a joke. In my years in the Navy, Government, private sector, public sector, I never met an un-swayable regulator.
ORI
wtf were they supposed to do, shut it down?
Turn off gigawatts? And have rolling blackouts? The gov't would have been embarrassed.
But the security at Lawrence Livermore Lab (nuke) was almost inpenetrable (near the core). 2 hours to get in and a fulltime escort with machine gun toting gaurds manning the walls.
If you are serious, you're sounding like "I can get so low" kudlow.
ORI
Long ago, all it took me to get in through NASA's back gate repeatedly was befriending the gaurd and giving him cigarettes. Saved me waiting in line at the front gate and being searched (1 hour downtime averted).
NOW who's baiting? Eh? Btw you and me, I think nothing of it ... move along now ...
Aw cute. You guys are in luv. :)
I AM CHUMBADUMBA!
Anyways, check this out, Fukushima Daiichi 1 had a planned decomissioning date of......
26th March 2011. Co-inky-dink?
some of you people are batshit crazy
have a nice tinuclear circlejerk
perhaps you are batshit blind.
ORI
What is the implication with your post?
That these leaks springing up all over the place were "inside" knowledge for a long time.
A known defective design, already coming to the end of it's "designed" life was given a 10 year extension.
Cui bono? Fools? I think not. Cost cutting at the expense of safety, perhaps.
Something more devious? I mean, look at the timing of it all, eh?
For the record, I've been talking actively on my blog, in my own, under-educated way, about the coming end of the nuclear age since June last year. On record, all there.
And about Japan and the curse of it's "free" energy too.
ORI
I don't have any reason to believe that there is something more "devious" than cost cutting. Sometimes there is danger in looking into things too closely.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/world/asia/22nuclear.html?_r=1
This NYT article is interesting (posted above), but the way I see it is that this is an article posted by MSM. Of course, everyone here denies anything posted by the MSM until it goes in their favor. None of us will likely ever know if there was any real damage to reactor #1 prior to the extension, so it's not really worth debating that much. If there was damage, then it's a shame they extended the life of the reactor in an attempt to save money. Otherwise, we are just fear-mongering here.
I question lots of things, but not everything is a conspiracy. There may have been something else at play, such as a delay in getting one of the newer reactors online despite continually rising demand for power. Nuclear reactors are "extended" all the time... read about Diablo Canyon's extension here, for example: http://www.diablocanyonpge.com/
As for your comment on the "end of the nuclear age"... i'm afraid it's here to stay for quite some time. Japan has very little natural resources to get energy from as compared to a place like the U.S. Where do you expect them to get their electricity?
Funny, see my MSM link below.
And as for the age of Nuclear Power and it's over-ness or not, perhaps we live on different sides of an uncrossable road at this point. A bridge is perhaps further down-road. We'll cross when it come and till then watch these various dramas unfold.
As for alternatives... perhaps the bridge is closer than you can imagine.
ORI
Say, ORI, check this out if you get a chance. This cat sings to my dystopian heart. If this were to happen, Japan would certainly increase in attractiveness to my mind.
http://kuntsler.com/blog/2011/03/an-odd-rumination.html
Here is an article that should give pause, MSM, but good. Quite chilling actually and puts paid to some Perfect Japan myths currently the rage.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42129558/ns/business-world_business
ORI
Thank God they've restored power to Reactor 1!
You are kidding right?
Look at the photos of the plant. They dont have anything left to contain anything. The whole plant is shite now that they poured salt water over it.
Sure they got power. But *Shrugs. For what?
They also need to replace parts that takes months to fabricate and ship to site.
If they can be made at all. Reminds me of the startling conclusion of the original MIT Project Icarus report (I bought a copy from a used book table long ago)---we are unlikely to be able to build the Saturn V boosters needed for the hypothetical asteroid-busting mission. The plans and specs were on punchcards, or lost to time in various ways....
TEPCO is going to go over these things bolt by bolt and send out special orders for components? Is the TARDIS going to take them to 1975 to get them?
???
That's what it looks like so far. Psychotic would be one word for it....
Again, maybe it will all be fine.
Well, I guess they can CNC Machine it on a large scale quick and a large amount of hours of WAG programming to make it happen.
All I understand is the old Foundry Sand Casting and welding of various componets to make.. say a Steam Engine for example. That I understand.
But making water wheels for Hydro Dams and such? You need CAT or something for that job. South Korea has shipped a Transformer to Peach Bottom some years ago, and that job took about a year to ship.
Shit, I regularly wait 8 to 12 weeks for parts that are in stock.
Dr. Who!
Where are you when we need you?
Wonder Warthog is my choice, he's indestructible.
I'd have thought Philbert Desanex would have heard about the crisis already, since he's a reporter.
Can sushi grade bluefin (with legs) be far behind?
If you chop up a Chesapeake Blue Crab enough out of the east coast you would have it I reckon.
Looks like the vampire black swan may be coming back to life as Buffet himself slowly morphs into global systemic risk: Buffet is to 2011 as AIG was to 2008. Fukushima was the first domino
Holy shit. It's hotter than Gaddafi's voluptuous Ukrainian nurse now. Imagine that.
Said nurse will need lidocaine to relieve the pain from a uncut sand covered organ.
I can only imagine him with a camel or something on 4 legs. Something about him reminds me of Charlie Sheen.
short positions under pressure on the AUD (again)..looks like BoJ are pumping cash whilst a full blown meltdown is about to happen.
FX..waiting for Europe the machines wake up about now.
Domino for sure. Van Morrison must have been freakin' psychic:
Oh oh domino
Roll me over romeo
There you go
Lord have mercy
I said oh oh domino
Roll me over romeo
There you go
Say it again
I said oh oh domino
I said oh oh domino
Buffet is black swan swimming
What's the melting point of the reactor fuel? Something like 2,000 degrees celcius, or something. At least that's the melting point of uranium oxide pellets I think.
Tyler - The article states the Friday press conference announced the 400 degrees was on the day before (Thursday). The 380 degrees "a few hours back" is today. Unless time is running backwards, the post does not make sense.
That's how I read it too.
Presumably this was an automatic translation. If anyone can actually read Japanese and provide a real translation please do.
Until then, my provisional "conclusion" is that it's cooling off.
Nod to "Id Fight Ghandi" who noted the same thing.
It must be a translation issue. If you translate the entire Yomiuri website, it has an article that says:
"The massive earthquake east, killing 9408 people, that the missing person was 47,160,001 persons, the police found in the summary of 23 noon."
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout...
I'm not too good at Japanese, but I think it means: 14,716
Heat Building in Japan Plant Reactor
Tuesday, March 22, 2011
http://www.globalsecuritynewswire.org/gsn/nw_20110322_5893.php
That's not 400C.
I'm as pro-doom as anyone, but I want accurate doom...
They have Waddell and Reed on retainer to flash crash the temperature.
don't start cleaning the chum outta the water...the sharks want to frenzy
temperature rise, spx do too. BULLISH!
ZH, any news on reactor 2? Hearing reports of major radiation spike workers evacuated