• asiablues
    02/08/2010 - 20:24
    A look at the relationship between sovereign risk, the price of oil and investment strategy in a possible Financial Crisis 2.0 scenario.
  • George Washington
    02/08/2010 - 17:20
    Whether or not large nations actually go bankrupt, one thing is clear . . . Larry Summers, Ben Bernanke, Tim Geithner and their foreign counterparts have failed ...
  • RobotTrader
    02/08/2010 - 15:56
    Very quiet, boring day today. Keeping an eye on the European banks and the resilient semiconductors. If the girls can get themselves out of rehab and the banks cen get something going, then a reaction rally might be due. Otherwise, its back to "Risk Revulsion and Convulsion".

Regions Financial's $22.8 Billion Dollar Sink Hole

Tyler Durden's picture




Jonathan Weil over at Bloomberg is on to something this morning, pointing out the dramatic disparity not only between Regions Financial loan portfolio Carrying Value (at what value the firm has them marked on the balance sheet) as opposed to their disclosed Fair Value Estimate (i.e., what the real value of all those toxic loans is). The math: the bank has overvalued its loan portfolio by $22.8 billion dollars: with a June 30 carrying value of $90.9 billion and an estimated fair value of $68.1 billion. Compare this real $22.8 billion shortfall between mark-to-myth and reality and the firm's $5.9 billion market cap, or to its disclosed June 30 shareholders' equity amount of $18.7 billion: by all measures RF should be either bankrupt or in conservatorship. From RF's recent 10-Q (page 37):

More alarmingly is what caused the substantial drop in FV estimates for its loans in the past 6 months: RF's loan book has declined from $79.9 billion to $68.1 billion: a 15% drop, yet the market and all talking pundits are claiming the economy is in such better shape now than it was on December 31. Just who is handing out these infinite blue pills that the American population and investing public are ever so eager to gulp down in size each and every day? Just because Obama is willing to mortgage everyone's future in order to keep forms like BAC, C and RF alive today should be cause for celebration? Enough with the blindfolds already.

RF is not unique: all the major banks have comparable massive shortfalls between what the auditors allow them to mark their toxic loan portfolios at, and what the real worth of such portfolios is - feel free to check them out:

WFC - page 120: $34.3 billion

C - page 162: $32.5 billion

BAC - page 79: $64.4 billion

The obvious question arises: why on earth is Regions Financial still allowed to exist and sucker more investors into believing it is anything even remotely close to a viable entity. In fact, as Weil points out, the government continues to classify Regions as “well capitalized." Indeed, lax accounting rules keep propping this zombie alive compliments of the FASB, while some trigger happy joystick-mongers who only care about exchanging Tweets what their overcaffeinated, 19 year old friends and making sure that all end up on the same side of the trade (especially since the SEC is roughly 8 decades behind the curve and has no idea what this Twitter gizmo is) buy the stock.

Weil chimes in:

If nothing else, today’s fair-value gaps highlight the arbitrariness of book values and regulatory capital. Banks already have the option to carry loans at fair value under the accounting rules. For the vast majority of loans, most banks elect not to, on the grounds that they intend to keep them until maturity and hope the cash rolls in.


Consequently, the difference between being well capitalized and woefully undercapitalized may come down to nothing more than some highly paid chief executive’s state of mind.


Fair-value estimates in the short-term can be a poor indicator of an asset’s eventual worth, especially when markets aren’t functioning smoothly. The problem with relying on management’s intentions is that they may be even less reliable.

At the end of the day, Weil is correct that at least now these zombie financials make available the data that investors can use on a quarterly basis (if the latter were so inclined, of course) to uncover just how ugly the real picture below the surface for all these firms is. But why care, when you have every major media outlet blasting soothing elevator music and Cramer's garbled and rasping monolog on how if Paulson is buying BAC, things are all good (last time we checked the balancing side of a relative value strategy, i.e., the not so long one or, heaven-forbid, something based in uber complex OTC products such as CDS, does not have to be disclosed, but why would that matter when one has a clearly defined agenda of nothing but spin).

One can only hope that the FASB doesn't get a call from Steve Rattner in the next few months (from whatever position he currently occupies somewhere/anywhere), and is forced to promptly change its mind on expanding the rule on Fair Value Accounting, which would force all these toxic zombie nightmares to converge on the massive difference between Fair and Carrying Value. Of course, if that happens, looks for Obama to promptly start preparing the public for the inevitable and much needed round 2 of TARP. I, for one, can't wait.

4.88889
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by Sardonicus
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:31
#35385

If they don't mark to mendacity, then the FDIC would be poofed out of existence.  They are already pretending that GFG, CORS, and CNB can keep going.  Any one of those three going into receivership would more than wipe out the last of the FDIC reserves...which is why they have done nothing.  FDIC needs more $$$ than was put into TARP.  By about tenfold.

 

by toomuchmerrilhoge
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:45
#35408

right.  Anyone notice the lack of FDIC fridays lately?  They're broke!

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:06
#35455

Does MTM mean Mark To the Moon?

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:26
#35720

really? they closed three banks last friday, five the week before, and four the week before that...

(might double check me on that, but its close enough)

by IE
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:54
#35425

This is true.  Rock meet hard place.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:13
#35474

To save everybody the trouble, the BAC 10q states that they have a negative 1.6 trillion net adjustment and the fair value of all their derivatives is only 101 billion, vs a level 1 value of 4.4 billion, level 2 value of 1.7 trillion and level 3 value of 34.7 billion.

It almost doesn't seem possible for it to be this low.

by deadhead
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:28
#35386

excellent information, particularly for those of us who follow the banks.

i would like to add that karl denninger talks about this frequently and like others, deserves credit for bringing these dark matters to light.

props to Mr. Weil as well who covers these matters well.

i'm wondering when someone in the gov't complex (i'll include the private Fed as well, and exclude Elizabeth Warren's COP) is gonna start acknowledging this information and concede that the "stress tests" were a phucking joke. 

by IE
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:52
#35423

 

It was funny yesterday how this poster (milk something) kept saying that the accounting standards hadn't changed.  What a disingenuous effort THAT was! 

Well... if the markets keep going up in spite of this new sort of transparency (banks showing what they're really not worth), combined with data releases that show foreclosures increasing ... then we have truly entered an unprecedented bizarro world. 

I love reading Denniger - but I'm afraid he's going to blow a gasket soon, out of pure frustration about the disconnect from fundamental principles.  I guess I don't blame him & his sense of urgency.  There probably is a point of no return somewhere.... but we've probably already crossed it, though. 

by deadhead
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:55
#35430

IE...the accounting standards from last nite's discussion is the first thing I thought about as well.

here you on Karl...love the guy, he is very bright, worried about him blowing a gasket. I do hope he runs for Congress

by Assetman
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:08
#35686

That's an excellent question to ponder, deadhead.

My sense is that the "acknowledgement" will happen when we start approaching much lower levels in the SPX.

Our government leaders would have been in a better position disclosing all this to the American sooner rather than later, but they will enter the land of unintended consequences on that at a later date.  Perhaps it may involve some individuals fleeing the country to avoid the pitchforks.

by Mos
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:35
#35392

Stock markets in flight, afternoon delight!

by hedgefun (not verified)
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:36
#35395

maybe we wil get a selloff on this news...30 billion is a lot of money

by Kaiser Soze
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:54
#35426

RF up 8% today.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:44
#35406

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/08/13/unemployment-rate-could-take-decade-to-return-to-6/

by hedgefun (not verified)
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:53
#35535

His message was being spread and gaining even more support...therefore he needed to be censored.

Until we have guys like Black back as regulators nothing will change. We just

good articles; my newest bookmarked finance site ..http://www..
hat tip: finance news & finance opinions

by lizzy36
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:47
#35413

Just who is handing out these infinite blue pills that the American population and investing public are ever so eager to gulp down in size each and every day?

I have asked that question everyday, since 2006.  And i still have no fricking clue.

Alas, if you don't acknowledge the problem than you don't have to acknowledge the consequences of the problem.  As long as the band-aid holds (courtesy of bernanke, geithner, summers and accounting bullshit) the blindfold remains firmly in place.

Conspiracy of optimism.....

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:48
#35414

http://www.reuters.com/article/governmentFilingsNews/idUSBNG40532420090813

UPDATE 1-Bank of America sues Colonial for $1 bln in loans, cash

by max2205
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:49
#35416

TD: what's on pg 67? re:BAC

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:50
#35419

this is dotcom time again. Don't need no earnings, don't need no business, don't need no company, just an imaginary thought and you get paid billions and your stock soars in price

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:52
#35422

Earnings for S&P500 is $6.86 compared to $60.39 last year

by zanahorias
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:52
#35420

+ the shit, sorry investment vehicles, that are off-balance. I don´t remenber if by semptember-october they should be included except the rule was delayed again or abandoned. that´s really bullish, isn´t it? (ironic)

by max2205
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:52
#35421

BTW Paulson probably got a "backstop" from the FDIC/Treasy.

 

Hence the F bombs last week.

 

Just a guess that this is the start of the Hedge fund and good banks movement. Question is when will the bad bank show it's Joker face?

by IE
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:56
#35431

I can't remember ... how is common equity treated when a bank gets carved into good/bad? 

by max2205
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:16
#35481

I don't remember, thought it was a wipeout for Shldrs

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:54
#35427

I think it's safe to say TARP 2 has already happened: the recapitalization of banks via suckers following robot created trends.

TARP 3 will come this fall. Bama's masterplan: H1N1 virus rebranded as crisis (i.e. get his healthcare deform passed); market meltdown in september (i.e. robots trend short).

It's all too obvious...

by AnonymousMonetarist
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:55
#35428

Reason for mark to farce? Through the eyes of this humble blogger it would appear that economic dominance is the battle that is clearly defined and a future that the Federales will try to invent. After all the desire to live a prosperous life is a theme that unites all peoples. Diplomatic, legal, cultural and political consent is most easily manufactured from a populace that is succored by material comforts. To win the world's hearts and minds will necessitate the inculcation of American exceptionalism by the sharing not of material riches but rather the acceptance that attainment of such is the end goal of our 'collective' aspirations. Soft power? Smart Power? No rather the pablum narrative of shared power when in fact all that is shared is the groupthink that the American economic model is a shared aspiration. Both the battle and the outcome would seem to be wholly counter-intuitive given the ongoing financial crisis. Methinks the Federales see this inflection point as an opportunity to establish a new Financial Imperium.  The sham stress test is Round 1, the manufactured outcome is temporary and/or stealth nationalization. Round 2 will be absorption of smaller banks by the anointed few.

by jmf
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:56
#35432

Moin from Germany,

here is a "SHOCKER".....

Guess who  purchased 35 million shares of Regions Financial Corp., taking the No. 2 shareholder spot behind State Street and ahead of Barclays, and 17 million shares of Capital One Financial Corp., becoming that bank's fifth-largest shareholder.......

The hedge fund run by John Paulson

http://www.finreg21.com/news/paulson-fund-buys-168m-shares-bank-america

 

 

by AnonymousMonetarist
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:01
#35443

In a telling recap of Paulson’s initial experiences betting against the bubble, the Wall Street Journal notes: “Housing remained strong, and the fund lost money. A concerned friend called asking Mr. Paulson if he was going to cut his losses. No, 'I’m adding’ to the bet, he responded, according to the investor. He told his wife, ‘It’s just a matter of waiting,’ and eased his stress with five-mile runs in Central Park.”

by deadhead
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:07
#35456

he took a hunk of FITB as well, which is another piece of shit.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:18
#35487

it's from Q2.

since the beginning of August he keeps selling in size

by zanahorias
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:56
#35433

yep it´s bullish XLF +1,7% hohoho... porca miseria :D

by NateDogg314
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:57
#35434

You know in the rational and ultra-efficient market of today all of the facts and research presented in this post boil down to one thing and one thing only.  Now is the time to go long RF or get left behind.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 11:57
#35435

Regions Bank is not just allowed to exist, it is apparently regarded by the FDIC as one of the relatively healthy banks. It took over the branches and deposits of the inappropriately named Integrity Bank in the Atlanta area after it was closed by the FDIC on 8/29/08.

The market has confirmed that Weil's story is old news by pushing Regions' stock price up 8.5% today.

by phaesed
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:02
#35445

The best part of about all of this is John Paulsen buying up BoA... even the legendary bears doubt themselves now.... although BAC did just complete a bull flag.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:02
#35446

paulson bought RF which is driving it -- liokley takeout candiate of course with you the taxcpayer bearing the losses and BBT,JPM other profiting from the yield curve reach around courtesy of the fed

by max2205
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:02
#35448

FASB may expand mark-to-market rules: report BOSTON (MarketWatch) -- The Financial Accounting Standards Board is considering expanding mark-to-market accounting rules to more types of assets, a move that could force banks to book bigger losses, The Wall Street Journal reported Thursday. Any accounting change would likely meet stiff resistance from banks, according to the story. FASB discussed the plan in July and is scheduled to revisit the issue on Thursday, although a formal proposal from the board on the matter isn't expected until late 2009 or early next year, according to the newspaper. Market Pulse Stories are Rapid-fire, short news bursts on stocks and markets as they move. Visit MarketWatch.com for more information on this news.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:03
#35449

although BBT CEO and his randian leanisng scan;t play well in Dc - save for maybe Shiela out of spite

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:04
#35451

Usually the market has a tendency of marking these things and doing the discounting itself regardless of the ink on the books. For some odd reason, the market is ignoring these facts.

I don`t believe that the FED or GS can manipulate the markets to that extent.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:09
#35464

Who determines the so called estimated fair value for these loans? They seem awfully high for the amounts of defaults and price decreases we have seen. WFC is carrying 799B of loans with a fair value of 764B? Only 5% difference?

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:53
#35532

WFC and its auditors determine "fair value" for the loans on its books. When you take a look at WFC's loans by category (home equity, option ARMs and commercial real estate in particular) that fair value looks even more dubious.

WFC talks about how more than half of their option ARMs are current on payments. Of course they are, when you're making the minimum payment on an option ARM, as 90%+ of them are, the payment is in most cases less than rent on an equivalent house. So you pay it until the loan resets (WFC proudly reports that a lot of them don't reset for many years) and the payment explodes, then you hand them the keys. Virtually all the option ARMs on Golden West's books, which went to Wachovia and then to WFC were originated in 2004 or later and are heavily weighted toward California. The vast majority of them have to be far underwater and will ultimately default. I'd be surprised if the ultimate default rate isn't 80% or more with a severity rate of 60% or more. I suspect that WFC is carrying the option ARMs that are current at the full amount of the loans even though nobody in their right mind would pay anything close to that for them. Not only that, but WFC books the unpaid interest (negative amortization that gets tacked onto principal) as income every quarter even though they don't collect it.

WFC also has a big home equity loan portfolio. When there is a foreclosure on the underlying first mortgage, the HELOCs tend to have 100% severity.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:15
#35476

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a8e71670-8777-11de-9280-00144feabdc0.html

short the Shiti

by max2205
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:15
#35477

Let the eat your own begin:

 

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Bank of America Corp. (BAC) filed a lawsuit against Colonial BancGroup Inc. (CNB) to protect its claim on Colonial loans in the face of the Alabama bank's struggle to survive.

Bank of America, of Charlotte, acted as trustee for parties that provided funding for Colonial's mortgage business, which is deeply entangled with Taylor, Bean & Whitaker Mortgage Corp., a Florida home-loan provider that ceased most operations last week.

In a complaint filed Wednesday with the U.S. District Court of the Southern District of Florida, in Miami, Bank of America said Colonial received from Freddie Mac (FRE) proceeds in excess of $1 billion from loans funded with the help of Bank of America.

At the heart of Bank of America's complaint is Taylor Bean unit Ocala Funding LLC. Ocala holds residential mortgages that are sold to Freddie Mac, and Bank of America is Ocala's custodian, indenture trustee, and collateral agent.

Give the doubts about Colonial's ability to fend off bankruptcy protection, Bank of America demanded the Ocala loans, financed through Colonial, as collateral for the proceeds Colonial allegedly didn't pay. Colonial has so far refused to provide the loans, the complaint alleges.

Bank of America isn't looking for cash, but wants to secure the loans as collateral in case of Colonial's bankruptcy. "We are doing our job as trustee," a Bank of America spokesman said.

Lisa Free, Colonial's director of investor relations, refused to comment.

Bank of America alleges, among other claims, breach of contract, unjust enrichment, and civil theft against Colonial and 10 individuals collectively referred to as John Doe.

Colonial is crucially short of capital, facing criminal charges by the Department of Justice, and acting under cease-and-desist orders from its regulators, which are deciding whether the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. should take the bank into receivership.

Over the past decade, Colonial grew from a small regional bank to one of the nation's largest provider of funds for real estate loans originated by other banks and mortgage firms. It forged a close relationship with Taylor Bean, which earlier this year was willing to provide Colonial with a capital infusion. The deal fell apart, and last week Taylor Bean closed its mortgage-lending business.

Colonial shares were down 2 cents at 50 cents around midday Thursday in New York. Bank of America shares were up 4.8% at $16.69 amid a general increase for banking sector stocks.

-By Matthias Rieker, Dow Jones Newswires; 212-416-2471; matthias.rieker@dowjones.com

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:26
#35497

And all the while Banks continue to fail. Last weekend 3 more died according to the FDIC. Weeeee....Green shoots everywhere you look!

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:30
#35502

Cash flow ultimately wins out. They can play these games for awhile, but non-performing loans have a way of piling up, especially in an environment such as ours. I realize the Fed has engineered virtually free money for these zombies, but free money doesn't help if your assets aren't paying and you have overhead to cover.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:39
#35514

Cramer is an asshole
And Geithner is an idiot. Dont know the fuck these people are doing. Obama has changed nothing

by hedgefun (not verified)
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:54
#35536

His message was being spread and gaining even more support...therefore he needed to be censored.

Until we have guys like Black back as regulators nothing will change. We just

good articles; my newest bookmarked finance site ..http://www..
hat tip: finance news & finance opinions

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:40
#35516

hmmm, who to side with, Paulson or a bunch of bloggers who are bearish everything for ever? Tough one.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:56
#35537

When you can't analyze for yourself that's the kind of choice you have to make. Never mind that reports suggest that Paulson has some hedges (short financial ETF, long gold) against the bank positions or that he might not even own them any more since the news is based on a 6/30 filing. Jump right in there with him. Good luck.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:02
#35549

CNBC is waiting for you, lemming

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:57
#35661

Didn't TD hint that we are only seeing one side of Paulson's positions.. the one's that must be reported and who knows what arb/hedge/dark pool activity he is building that isn't being reported ?

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:53
#35533

Tyler,

That is why the Fed is keeping rate where it is so that these zombies can earn their ways out of these big gaps. Delay the writedowns long enough for new earnings to cover them up.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:05
#35552

have you ever been to Japan?

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:56
#35540

All this site does is spin conspiracy theories, boring. Goldman this, Fed that, FDIC is broke, OMG.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 12:59
#35545

Recent reports by mainstream media outlets indicate that FDIC will be broke or very close to it after it takes losses to close zombie banks Colonial, Guaranty Trust and Corus. They must be part of the conspiracy.

Of course, all the FDIC being broke means is that Treasury will have to provide them with "emergency" funding and issue more debt to cover it. Nothing to worry about.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:09
#35557

Just an fyi for Tyler - I think your figure for Citi might be incorrect as stated. I have no axe to grind here, but I pulled up 10Q's for the 3 megabanks you mentioned - your figure on Wells appears correct at $34.3B, but for your Citi $32.5B it appears you are taking the difference in the Long Term Debt line in the liabilities table. This reflects where Citi's debt is being marked on the balance sheet vs. where it is being traded in the market (the insane side effect of last year's MTM rules was that liabilites as well as assets were MTM; of course, you still have to pay back 100 cents on the dollar on your debt at maturity, but banks were allowed in MTM to book their liabilities at depressed levels, as if they have a short position in their own debt, and thereby display a MTM gain as their financial condition deteriorated!). In this case it appears Citi is actually marking their debt at par, or at least well north of where their credits trade publicly.

The problem with your $32.5B figure is you need to look at the Asset table, specifically Loans and Investments differences. Here Citi is actually not so bad - ~$6 bln shortfall on where assets are being carried vs Fair Value.

Finally, BofA doesn't provide a handy table comparison like Wells or Citi do, and quite frankly I don't understand how the megabanks are each holding hundreds of billions in loans and leases, yet BofA's balance sheet on pg 67 says they only have $6.9B of loans being carried at Fair Value. It's possible BofA is not carrying loans at FV either because their loans available for sale figure is higher than Wells or C (so they are classifying differently), or that their problematic FV loans were largely shoveled onto the US taxpayer via the guarantees of the Treasury late last year and are now being accounted for somewhere else on the balance sheet.

Anyone who claims that they can truly make sense of a megabank's balance sheet is either god, or lying.

You're doing great work Tyler, I'm just humbly trying to make sure the math stays correct.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:11
#35560

sure, broke, nobody gets it except you guys. Repeat ad nauseum. You are the reason why financials stocks have exploded higher, keep selling!!!!

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:16
#35568

keep buying, lemming

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:19
#35571

sure, lemming. You'll be right someday

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:37
#35618

Oh, and just wait until commercial real estate implodes. Any day now, just wait, and wait, and wait.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:12
#35561

Printer Benny reapointed,.stocks up 20% across the board!
Printer Benny apointed for life,.stocks up 30%
Printer Benny promissed to live to be 140,..stocks surge 200%
"News headline in 2020",.."At last America is down to having just 5 banks, well capitalized with over 900 trillion each, and not a single loan on their book"
And unemployment finally hit 0,..due to suicide!

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:13
#35565

I what geniuses are having deposits at these banks now?
Because, when FDIC eventually will start asking for funding from the Treasury to seize these banks, you'll see closed doors at these banks for a long time, to prevent bank-runs.
get your money while you can.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:14
#35566

Note that there is a mistake for Citigroup (C). It is their own long term debt that they are carrying at $32.5 billion more than the fair value, presumably because of default risk. By the same argument you should say that they have $32.5 billion more book value than what is shown on the balance sheet. Their loan portfolio is carried at only $1.3 billion more than fair value, for a $600 billion loan portfolio it is almost immaterial.
This just shows that forcing fair value accounting in all circumstances is just a problematic as mark-to-model.
Also note that BAC is also carrying its long term debt at $23.3 billion more than fair value.

by Milton
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:19
#35572

OK so John Paulson (the hedge fund) is a buyer of RF, BAC, and GS.

Let's not forget than Alan Greenspan is a paid advisor to Paulson.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/greenspan-to-advise-new-york-based-hedge-fund-paulson-co

 

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:28
#35592

correction: was a buyer in Q2(6/30).

by Milton
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:30
#35597

Good point Anon. For all we know he could be short today.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:41
#35626

Could be short??? Bahahahaha, took his $1 in RF and spun around and got short. You guys are brainless.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:46
#35638

no not short, rumor has it he is the seller in size since the beginning of this last pump.

like Bove said Q3 and Q4 for finco's will be ugly

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:49
#35648

Oh well if Dick Bove says so I'm in. Citi was the "buy of a lifetime" at $28. Bawhahahahah

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:51
#35652

actually, the real rumor has it that he was a size buyer today

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:20
#35574

and...... Another conspiracy?

by lizzy36
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:43
#35631

sigh......crammer on TV recommending Regions.

I am watching and in my head i keep hearing " killing me softly" (thank you tyler).

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:47
#35640

Lets see, bad news (according to you guys) and the stock soars. What does Cramer know? Keep selling guys.

by lizzy36
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:14
#35694

So you must be having a very busy day as the self appointed conspiracy patrol person on ZH. 

If you have a fundamental reason why you believe Tyler is wrong and Cramer is right (other than JP having once bot the stock) i would be all eyes.

Otherwise, you are just a troll attempting to police commentators on a website you have no interest in. 

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:15
#35697

Trading 101, RF is smashing trhu your suppossed negative news. Period. Thats it. Nothing to argue about.

by lizzy36
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:34
#35733

I thought we were talking about trading not self-fulfilling prophecies.

Trading 101 must have been the remedial class?

 

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:35
#35735

U lost me Tizzy, I'm not so smart

by Anonymous
on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 03:08
#36556

Exactly. Finally somebody who gets it. If a stock goes up, it must be worth it. Just like when Mary Meeker was pounding the table on Yahoo! at $275. That one worked out great all around, right? No doubt RF will perform as well in the long term. Hey, who you going to believe, some bitter fool on ZH or someone like Mary who was paid $30 million a year to shill dot.com's? And Cramer, forget about it...man's a genius. I mean, he has his own show. That's got to tell you something.

I'm bagging this site, man, and going back to the Yahoo! boards where folks in the know play.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:17
#35701

What did Cramer know when he was pounding on the table bullish on 10/31/07, the day the S&P 500 peaked at 1565? What did he know when he gave his "Winners of the New World" speech on March 10, 2000, the day the Nasdaq peaked at over 5000?

Booyah!

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:59
#35667

Cramer tells you what Goldman wants you to hear,..translation...give me your money stupid sheep, give me your money stupid sheep, give me your money,.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:00
#35672

more conspiracy

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:00
#35670

short IYR XLF heavy

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:04
#35675

Here's a forecast, they will be shoved up inside your rectum by the close. Anybody notice how stocks are higher, despite retail sales. Thats a bull market ladies. Bawhahahahahhah

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:19
#35704

here's another forecast, you'll need a colostomy bag pretty soon

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:20
#35706

me?

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:18
#35702

Heavy? New highs for BAC. Buckle up.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 16:54
#35935

keep buying, John Paulson thanks you.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:41
#35751

uh oh

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:07
#35682

I think this bizarre trend ("the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent") will go on till just after Labor Day. Why Labor Day and not Freedonian Independence Day (the storming of the Schlemiel)? Because the market may need a Major Catalyst like the back-to-school-and-work aftermath of an important U.S. holiday to galvanize its ass into proper gear. The Players (GS, JPM?) et al. meantime are taking advantage of this expectation to drive the market up to its parabolic (ya-hoo I'm ridin' the Bomb!) top. Whereupon reaching it circa Sept. 8th, they'll happily drive it right down again.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:32
#35730

totally agree, the market is controlled by the Freemasons and the Trilateral Commission. Bawhahahaha. "They," losing traders always blame "them"

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:39
#35748

I was more around Sept 15th, but now we are just splitting hairs. Bawahahahahaah

by mkkby
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 14:32
#35731

I object to "sink hole" in the title.  10 figures is the new chump change.  Anything under a $ trillion is just a yawn.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 17:02
#35947

Don't forget that some hedge funds are buying regionals to use their liquidity to finance their LBOs in chapter two from the fin crises. but the jury is still out as Bair is still the empediment to that plan. Hence the fallout with timmy in their famous(or should I say infamous)Friday meeting. So Jhn might very well be long the bank. The other alternative, he is long cds (short the bank loan)and long the stocks as a call.

by Anonymous
on Thu, 08/13/2009 - 17:50
#36004

Take your money out of these banks and.....put it where? Where? where? Where? Where? Treasuries? Physical? Stocks? It has to go somewhere.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 07:38
#36637

Look at at that, another almost 5% for RF this morning. Goddamn BofA, in on the conspiracy with Cramer, Goldman. Bahawhahahahahaah. Leaving skid marks all over you guys. Yeaaaahhhhh Tizzy36.

by John McClane
on Sun, 08/16/2009 - 17:57
#38326

I totally agree there is a capital shortfall, but there is a new Treasurer in town at Regions.

He might actually believe in using observed market spreads [north of 700bps over swaps] in order to assign loss-adjusted net present values on the non-securitized loan portfolios. His previous employer has moved away from market spreads and now relies on a spread [way south of 700bps] to assign FAS107 marks each quarter...Sooner or later, [more] honest financial statements at banks will become relevant again.

 

Yippee Kay Yay Mother....

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