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Rep. Steny Hoyer (D) Called A Liar, Shouted Down For Presenting Misleading Economic Data
The American people are becoming more educated... and more angry...
In other news, Obama's healthcare plan appropriately compared to Erie Canal, set to flush cash out of pockets of majority.
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Yeah americans are getting mad, slowly but surely and these politicians better watch out. This won't be easy for these crooks this time around when we reach a breaking point. After that maybe there won't be a turning back.
people are starting to wake up. welcome to the party folks.
Things like this are great to see. People will begin to take the elections a bit more seriously in the future and we'll see a lot of turnover. Anyone who votes for the health reform bill will end their political career so it wil be fun to watch. And don't forget to buy some physical silver.
The duopoly of Republican versus Democrats must end.
Anytime anyone brings up R vs. D in your presence, remind them they are missing the point.
Both parties are crooks, and without True Campaign Finance Reform, Term Limits and restriction on Lobbying, we'll continue to be ripped off.
That's the best thing you can do to start to shape the debate around you.
A choice between R and D is no choice at all. Political capture at the HIGHEST levels.
Sorry, but that's just plain assinine. The GOP certainly abandoned its principles and screwed up in following Bush down the Big Government Conservatism path, but do you honestly think that? These fuckers have stored up every ridiculous idea for the past 12 years and thrown them all at the wall at once. This is country ending stuff going on right now. I'm no Republican, but I do follow current events, that this shit is so obviously unprecedented that only a fucking fool would claim that there is no difference between the parties. Go ahead and push for a third party and I might be down for it. But no difference between Zerobama/Dems and the GOP? Climb down from your ledge.
They are both running off of polls to find out what citizens want to hear, and feeding that back to them in soundbites. Groups like the CFR direct and influence both parties and write the bills and regulations that the purchased politicians don't generally read but are expected to pass. They have a globalist agenda and use the illusion of choice (locked into left/right dem/repub rich/poor white collar/blue collar paradigm). Few people will actually be able to look through the fascade and discover the connections between corporations and politicians and coordination from both sides. Simpletons will never see this, and there is a bell curve, so this majority gets played.
There are a few true believers on both sides and a few differences between the groups, but the majority have been captured. Someone very smart has set up offsetting groups focused on conflict differences betwen groups of people through polling and social engineering. I liked the suggestions above.
divide and conquer.
Term limits are a problem, I can't support that. Real reform will come with campaign finance reform and a viable 3rd party.
I, for one, have joined the Libertarians. An imperfect option, but better than the other 2.
I would prefer to start my own party. A starting base of the platform:
1. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative
2. Budgets in near balance - not perfectly balanced, but near balance to allow for some "Keynesian" management. That would be a deficit or surplus of less than 1% of total budget.
3. Auditing for the Fed
4. Using government taxation to ease market imbalance - a Tobin Tax, a flat income tax, a small VAT.
5. Support for freer markets, less regulation.
6. Stronger enforcement of remaining legislation.
7. Immediate censure of all political officials, elected or otherwise, upon indictment. Censure isn't damaging, and this would impose a force of good that is imperfect, but makes them think twice.
Feel free to add what you want. I think we can get the Durden Party started.
I agree with that platform. However, in our Plutocratic Kleptocracy under a Facade of Democracy, a significant win by a third party will never happen. Only if there's a total collapse of the system could it happen at which point, considering the low level of understanding by the US public, you can expect a 1933 Germany style result which won't be a 3rd party that either you or I could stomach.
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
I have a Facebook group called "MMC - May, Might, Could".
I post articles and thoughts, and encourage others to post, which support these viewpoints.
MMC is based on the flawed scientific journalism that is common today. Onions MAY give you cancer. Broccoli COULD reduce your risk for colon cancer.
None of these things are statistically relevant, but we report them because it's "news" that isn't really news but gets people to read.
It is a viewpoint that is anti-scientific "consensus". After all, Galileo was done in by the "scientific consensus" of his time. The fact that it was a religiously based science is irrelevant - today's Global Warmers are more religious about their viewpoints than Galileo's tormentors.
My anti-Global Warming stance is not an anti-environmental stance. I happen to be greener than most of my more liberal friends. I just don't believe I should FORCE people to do something that they cannot afford to do economically. I am an avid outdoorsman (or I was in my youth), and I am seeking alternatives to standard energy sources (I would love to have solar panels and a windmill generating electricity - but both are economically illogical at this point...though last summer they were not).
I am seeking a rational dialogue, as opposed to an illogical "crisis-based" argument (which is employed by both Republicans and Democrats as they see fit). The dialogue does not mean I am interested in wide compromises, just a better understanding and improved explanations on why certain policies make sense and why they should be employed.
If you're interested, and you have Facebook, join MMC - May, Might, Could.
I post Zero Hedge articles there from time to time, as well articles from Maggie's Farm.
agreed
regarding #3 - I would suggest abolishment of the Fed.
I would also make an automatic forehead branding (traitor) for any politician who takes money or gifts from any lobbyist. get the lobbyists out of DC, and you'll find the road blocks are much smaller.
How about bringing military forces back to the USA (ron paul, chalmers johnson style).
And last thing, what about setting corporate compensation based on the lowest wage paid by the company? An easy way to bring jobs back home...
LMAO on the branding.
I believe the Fed is important. I don't support a gold standard. But I believe we need to have a flexible set of guidelines which govern the Fed. For example, negative real interest rates can only be in effect for a period of time (insert rule here), at which point they can no longer be negative. As it stands, the Fed can (and did) keep them negative FAR too long.
In addition, it must be audited regularly to prevent market manipulation.
I'm less supportive of the "bring the troops home" viewpoint. There are some instances where it does make sense to keep them abroad....and some instances where bringing them home too quickly will do more damage than good. I find it amusing that Obama went from "we're losing in Iraq" to "well, we're not losing, but I'll bring the troops home in 9 months" to "well....maybe 18 months".
Had I been writing his platform, I'd have had him say "I will bring the troops home in a defensibly prudent manner that follows no specific timetable, but meets the needs of world stability." It's imprecise, but warfare is imprecise. And war is just politics by other means.
Setting corporate compensation by the Federal Government is Fascism (private ownership, public management). I do not subscribe to Fascism.
sign me up for the newletter too. here here.
The "socially liberal" part of the platform is going to turn off the tea party brigade.
As a supporter of the tea party brigade (author here), I have no problem with turning off strident fundamentalists.
While I respect what the Religious Right is seeking, I do not support their social agenda. I respect their views, but I do not want them to impose their social views on me.
Their economic agenda is not at odds with mine.
VAT never stays small, ever.
Back in the day, sales taxes started at 2%.
Look where they are anywhere, today.
It can stay small. If it's capped by law. The problem with taxes is that they rise due to political lack of will to keep them low by reducing or managing spending....
I absolutely HATE when people talk about aiming to be socially liberal but fiscally conservative.
Good to know. We will make note in the minutes.
Why is that? (author of post here)
Socially liberal is a good thing. Consider that while I personally oppose abortion, I recognize that it's important to keep it legal because not everyone shares my moral viewpoint. I cannot impose a moral viewpoint on you, nor should I (Obama - take note).
In addition, socially liberal does not ALWAYS mean imposing taxes to enforce an agenda of social manipulation. It simply means recognizing there are some things you cannot control, but you can manage. Some examples - teen pregnancy, drug use, alcohol, STD's. Places which have legalized prostitution not only earn tax revenue, but have cleaned up their streets AND lowered their STD rates. Legalizing certain drugs (marijuana, for example) would reduce prison rolls, lower costs of enforcement, increase tax revenues.
These are items which are best left for families to deal with in terms of prevention - not the Federal or State government. In addition, by legalizing these things, you leave the door open for LOCAL government to restrict them. If my town decides prostitution and marijuana is a blight - they can impose fines for engaging these things.
Socially liberal and fiscally conservative is a standard but unutilized method of REMOVING ASPECTS OF GOVERNMENT CONTROL, while imposing a standard of GOOD ECONOMIC MANAGEMENT.
OK. I greatly appreicate the response and find myself very much in agreement with your further explanation.
I was on the other side of a meeting with Mr. Daniels when I orginally posted that and was simply reacting to the visceral reaction I get when I hear what are often confused people (you certainly seem to be the exception to the rule) tell me that they like to have their cake and eat it to - which is how I often see the comment "socially liberal but fiscally conservative"
I'm all about limiting government - especially at the federal level. The GOP has absolutely lost its way in their bid to become culture warriors - and lost me as a card carrying member. I suspect we have much more to agree upon than my original post suggested.
Perhaps we can work to coin a new way to express your good ideas and rotate away from the phrase "socially liberal but fiscally conservative".
Maybe "dramtically limited government and dramatically limited government"
Differences of political values and positions are perfectly reasonable to me.
But "less regulation"?
Oh, for a perfect world where all business people are honorable and well-deserved trust falls from the sky like mana from heaven.
I think we are in agreement. But the way I describe less regulation is by commenting on Columbine. Some 20+ gun laws were broken at Columbine. So what good were the regulations?
The problem with regulation isn't how many we have - it's how they are enforced. If we have too many and it's too hypocritical (like most gun laws), then you can't enforce them easily or inexpensively.
We see this in the stock market. We were hoodwinked not because of too little regulation, but because of lack of enforcement. If the laws are simplified, and made justifiable, then they are more easily enforced.
I think you miss the point of regulation, which is to actually enforce what you've got on the books. If you've got too much, or stuff that isn't easily prosecuted (as we do now) then you are at odds with your intended goal.
I'd rather have unlimited donations but complete, full, and timely disclosure.
Term limits would be nice though.
Despair not. Little Urban Achievers the land over are uniting in the long-overdue new party for the Mises masses and we are, in fact, unstoppable:
http://lebowskiparty.com/
TD for Prez, the dude with Air Force hat for VP?
There's a national tea party in DC on 9/12/09, and I'm driving up from Atlanta for it. Is anyone else going? I'm thinking of making a little detour past the Federal Reserve building while I'm there. Anyone care to join me?
Here's the website for the event. It's impossible to tell how many people are actually going to show up, but the blocks of hotel rooms the organizers reserved are all gone.
http://912dc.org/
Drink lots of water before you get to the Federal Reserve Building, and politely water their grass!
Might be kind of complicated considering that I'm a female ;-)
I bet you can manage if you really try...
Tea Party Stupidity
Do these people realize what they are doing? I don't think so. They went from being cable TV watching sheeple to sheeple holding signs outdoors.
First and foremost, most of these "tea parties" are protests about how the government is spending/wasting the money rather than a protest about the government taking it from them in the first place. They aren't calling for a repeal of the income tax (while also not advocating a replacement), nor are they calling for the end of the FED. Fools.
Aside from the fact that they are ideologically self-fucked, their methods and tactics are seriously flawed. Not just flawed, but completely, totally and utterly ineffective and so much so, that the only positive that can come from their efforts is perhaps getting a sun tan.
Protesting for one's rights or money is better viewed as BEGGING FOR RIGHTS/MONEY. That's correct. When you hit the streets with a sign, you are begging a entity (government) to give back to you what they've taken without your consent and most often by force. You are a beggar. You are not challenger of any kind. You hold a lower status.
Can anyone here educate me at all with a single instance in the history of Mankind where begging for rights actually succeeded? Where the ruling entity genuinely submitted to the people's demands for no other reason but the demands themselves? You know, none of this Gandhi crap where Britain was effectively collapsing and on the way out anyway. Or the MLK civil rights nonsense where no rights were ever liberated and where the government had an agenda for acting the way it did. I mean genuine the-people-ask, the-government-complies. I don't think anyone here can. But many of you guys are very smart, so I'm hopeful I can be proved wrong and I can learn something.
It's true what they say, those with the guns, make the rules. Reminds me of one of best movie scenes of all time from The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend...
...those with loaded guns, and those who dig.
You dig. "
I enjoy studying economics, history, the sciences. I realize there are certain truths to this world and there are certain things that are laws of nature and almost laws of human behavior/interaction. I wonder, what do these sign-waving people have in terms of negotiation power? Where is their leverage? Do they have anything at all? What do they bring to the table? What can they say or do that can demand at least a response from those they petition?
They don't have shit! Nothing. And like nothing, they will get nothing.
It's sad in a way. They have energy. They even have the quality of actually getting up off the couch and doing something. Unfortunately, they have no direction and are involved in a futile practice.
The great irony here is the very name of these events. "Tea Parties" ...HAHA! Do they realize that the Boston Tea Party was not a bunch of idiots begging and crying to their government masters? But that was a group of patriots who took actual physical action against the interests of those who oppressed them?
It makes me sick to my stomach to hear time and time again most people emphatically and dogmatically state that the only path, the only way, the right way, the best way, the moral way etc etc TO change things is through peaceful protest or peaceful-non-compliance.
What a load of shit.
Again, can anyone here cite a single instance where peaceful protest succeeded at achieving genuine change (for the real best interests of the people)? I don't think it has ever happened.
Is this public school and media indoctrination? Or are they just cowards and cannot call for what really needs to be done because it will be sedition or terrorism?
Reminds me of that saying that goes around here, "If voting actually worked, it would have been outlawed" ..there's much truth to that. You see, the moment you do something truly effective - they will murder you or imprison you. Or at least try to. If you protest out in the streets, if you run a website, if you get out the vote, if you preach and preach and you're A. Alive B. Not in prison, then you can rest assured that your methods are completely, totally and utterly ineffective at changing anything. You're safe because those in power are not threatened by you. It's that simple.
It's unbelievable how people cannot think straight. Before I begin on the next part, I will say this plainly. I believe, with complete certainty, that the foundation of America was a good thing and based on good principles. And that all the MEANS by which it was founded were right and just and still are to this day.
The founders of this nation did not start the revolution and move toward independence. They materialized it. It is something that grew for decades. During those many years, the founders and their predecessors tried every single means toward reform. They petitioned, they begged. They did not one day just up and decide to start shooting Redcoats. They tried it all. And it ALL FAILED. It failed like it always fails.
It always fails because the master or ruling entity has no reason whatsoever to negotiate or accommodate the weak. There's no incentive either. Today, the IRS has no incentive at all for working with the people on paying taxes. They don't need to think in those terms. They get the money regardless and by force. Likewise, socialism promotes sloth and rot because there's no incentive to excel. The money is coming regardless.
Take a good look at what the Federal government did to the peaceful Bonus Army! These people were not violent. These people had serious and just claims. They weren't even asking for their rights or to challenge the authority of the government! And take a good look at how the government dealt with that.
American history is full of these instances. But there are also instances of genuine reform and change. The Battle of Athens, Tennessee is a perfect example. A story the Federal government doesn't want you to know about. Might give you ideas!
How about the Chinese at Tienanmen Square? Most people have no clue about the extent of what happened there. The massive slaughter. That was the greatest display and the ultimate final defeat of peaceful protest. The Chinese are brave people. Even after a full day of being shot and bayoneted. Large numbers of Chinese would interlock arms and form a line to block the progress of the PLA, and the would still get shot to pieces. People who watched their fellow citizens die all day long continued in this path because they believed their cause was worth it. They believed that their own countrymen, the soldiers of the PLA, would eventually crack and breakdown at the sight of this relentless, completely passive peaceful resistance. You'd think that if you held your ground, and worked it to its logical conclusion, that the tyrants would be defeated since they are powerless without their people. If they kill everyone, they will have no one to rule. That if you accept the slaughter, if you take the slaps to the face and the beatings and continue, that the tyrant will be forced to realize that it doesn't work.
This is flawed for a number of reasons. The main reason is that it is based on an assumption that government primarily used fear as weapon. This method of accepting abuse in a show of defiance as a means to eliminate the fear-mechanism of government simply doesn't work because the government uses fear when they can, but when that fails they murder and they murder as many as they can until they succeed. Also, the notion that full unity can be achieved is MYTHICAL. In every revolutionary movement in history, including America's, the patriots were a minority and "life goes on" regardless. There's no such thing as an end to humanity or society, and therefore, there is no such thing as a threat to "stop it all" in a unified idealistic mass non-compliance movement. Also, the brutality of even your own countrymen is always underestimated. This is nothing new. Absolutely horrific acts were committed during the American Revolution by the British and by the Patriots. Neighbors killed neighbors. There were also mass killings. People who were ethnically, culturally identical. Who are the same people, the same countrymen essentially slaughtered one another and the government never shows any restraint at all. There's no limit to what they will do.
In the end, the Chinese were slaughtered. Over and over and over. To prevent further unrest, the government pacified the people with false reforms and they fell for it. The U.S. government did the same thing many times in the 20th century. The civil rights legislation being one of them. If they refused to accept the BS reforms, and continued, the PLA would kill more until they break. And as I said before, the patriot/revolutionary is a minority figure. Always is. A guerrilla fighter never goes head to head. They've got numbers, you don't. Your ranks are precious. You do not have an endless stream of conscripts and cannon fodder.
It all comes down to this. For the average person, the only, and I mean, the ONLY effective method that exists is actual armed rebellion. Period. Nothing else works. If you are interested in changing things or fighting for liberty and freedom, there are two paths you can take. The first path is the revolutionary. In this path, you're literally shooting and killing taxmen, politicians, judges, government people, corporate leaders, bombing things, sabotage, attacking supporters of tyranny so forth and so on. Obviously, this is an extremely high risk path to take. You are literally putting you ass on the line. Give me liberty or give me death - except for real, not just a cool slogan.
The other path is non-active resistance. Doing everything in your power to evade taxes, to evade supporting the government, to undermine them as much as possible, to promote your ideas and lifestyle in contradiction to the will of the government.
That's all there is to it. There's nothing else. Other than submitting and being a SLAVE. Of the two options that have any chance of success, one is active, the other is not.
As I said above, I firmly believe everything the founders did was completely just. They did it for their liberty, and it founded the greatest nation of all time. Even in this tyranny, we all still benefit from their sacrifice. It's sad that people consider the last resort and final effective means for enacting change as barbarism or murder or unacceptable.
What the farmers did on April 19th, 1775 is celebrated. It's celebrated because their side ultimately won. But for their time, what they did was considered high treason. It's no different than a group of citizens today grabbing their assault rifles and ambushing or attacking a U.S. military or Police convoy en route to completing some type of liberty-stripping mission such as a firearm confiscation. No different at all. The punishment for such acts is death. It was the same back then.
That is the ultimate hypocrisy and irony. That the very thing that created this nation is condemned as wrong, as unjust, as murderous. Yet, the government on a daily basis proves that it is willing to murder its citizens in order to impose its will on them. They are taking it to the extreme EVERY DAY. They are going all the way, all the time. But for us little slaves to even suggest such a thing, that is very naughty!
My suggestion for these "tea party" clowns is to put down the signs, go back home and to get a fucking clue. Their time is better spent adjusting their lifestyle to minimize their slave output to the government. Live a life that pays the least amount of tax possible, that avoids ever paying money to credit card companies. Better spent training with firearms. Better spent reading books, getting educated and educating young children with the truth. Exposing them to a classical education. Shielding them from being taken away from their parents (mentally) by this public education system that puts people into a matrix-like bubble.
If dropping the hammer on some scumbag Federal agent is not for you, and it's not for most people, there are other ways to resist. But ultimately, resistance is resistance - it isn't proactive change. It won't get it done. But holding off is certainly better than submitting, and is the best thing to do until an opening presents itself for genuine change.
http://www.phpbbplanet.com/damessageboard/viewtopic.php?t=2910&highlight...
Uh ok. You first.
You just blew my fucking mind.
A+.
I am Chumbawamba.
Wow, I sincerely hope you're under 24 hr. surveillance.
Home-schooling/brainwashing your kids is really going to give them a leg-up in the global economy.
You also forgot another option: Move your family to Somalia, where there's no pesky Government or laws.
or Detroit.
blah blah blah blah blah, could you repeat that, I missed the middle part...
I really like your assault weapon avatar that you use on the board you invite us to visit.
It says allot.
I understand your frustration but I think you are wrong about the tea parties and protests. The government does not always listen to the people but they did listen last year when they wanted to pass the insane immigration legislation.
If you sit back and don't tell the elected idiots of both parties what you think they will continue to steal money and grab more power from you.
I agree with you on starving the beast.
You can starve the beast if you like but it will go bankrupt either way.
anon 27884,
Bravo!
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Pretty sure you know who said/wrote that.
for now i will resist and not submit. may the opening present itself.
Spammed the blog.
Get another soapbox.
thanks for the link. I hadn't heard about this but i live near Washington. It would be nice to check out.
Who shold we buy our silver from? (insert advertisement here)
Perhaps if the other 50% of Americans that don't vote might get aroused to do so by the recent turn of events? As long as their favorite show isn't on after work on election day or there is not a KFC on the way to the polling place.
The other 50% of Americans did vote. Even quite a few dead ones. How do you think we got here?
So that's where the healthcare bill / president's dog quote came from... Hilarious.
I loved the guy's comments about Obama's dog! Right on!
You people must be joking. Healthcare reform has been debated for the last 50 years. This isn't a rush to anything, except actual legislation.
The Obama's dog comment is the kind of cutesy bs that appeals to people who have no clue wtf they're talking about when they rail against Govt action. Teabaggers will never gain credibility as long as they're spokesmen trade in one-liners aimed at the 100-IQ set.
Btw where were all of you from 2000-2008? Too busy fopping as you watched the bubble inflate?
i think your comments are misguided and beligerent. Very few people sounded financial alarms but your reproach to people being upset now is nothing short of an arrogant flare on your part. Healthcare legislation being cramed or not down someone's throat epitomizes the feelings that most Americans have and the approach that politicians are making. So, your snobbish soul-searching questions of "where were you in 2000-2008" is a pathetic outcry of your own failure to understand that financial cunning or prowess isn't an innate ability, which is why we have people labeled "experts."
Umm, no. My point is that suddenly that there's a Democratic Admin trying to enact the platform on which they were elected, all these Teabaggers come out of the woodwork (even though this is largely a movement funded by lobbying groups like Freedom Works), yet these same people didn't say sh_t about the huge deficits incurred during the 2000-2008. Are you claiming that Joe Sixpack has any reason to cry about corporate income tax rates (when corps barely pay any income taxes) or a surtax on people making over $1,000,000? The sudden outrage is totally disingenuous.
If we'd let all the banks fail, they'd undoubtedly be crying about us being in the middle of a Depression.
They were elected on Not raising middle class taxes "one dime". Also where was the ghost plan to introduce a path to single payer health insurance in any of Obama's campaign speeched, and did people know that they were voting for it? Where did Obama say that he was going to have a 2 trillion deficit in the first year? People thought they were voting for something other than what they find they have.
And the fat guy in the video who makes the dog comment claims to be a Democrat.
"claims"
He probably is paid to say that crap
Check out CEO Rick Scott, former head of Solantic and current Head of Conservatives for Patient Rights.
Biggest Medical Fraud EVER by a company.
This is who these people are rallying with.
Obamacare is a unique twist and needs introspection.
The law of unintended consequences...
and intended consequences.
"Btw where were all of you from 2000-2008? Too busy fopping as you watched the bubble inflate?"
Ouch! The truth hurts when we're on the receiving end.
Let's ignore that man . . .
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124951984342909683.html#mod=rss_whats_ne...
Whoops, not a good day for Rep. Hoyer... I like the fact they presented that it took Obama six months to pick a dog... but we have to quickly push though Health Care Reform. Also why is it that it will take the SEC a protracted period to ban flash trading, but the process for the bailouts and stimulus packages were almost instantaneous... please someone explain this to me.
I think we should be allowed to shoot them with paintball guns.
More fun.
A 10 gauge shotgun would be more fun.
a howitzer would be more fun.
I am amazed that politicians are going out into organized public venues to speak. One day, some fool looking for 15 minutes of fame is going to blow a politician into next week.
When?
and that would be very bad - crisis of this form is generally 'solved' by creating a repressive regime that ultimately forces people to work harder for less. it would be nice to have an excuse (similar to how 'terrorism' is an excuse to plunder world resources in direct response to the crisis of over-production and necessary destruction)
right idiot, cause it's not like the US is sitting on a lot of resources that the retrolibtards won't let us harvest or utilize.
you are a total buffoon
Retrolibtards
Wikipedia failed to give a definition though the term is worthy of an entry. These people are rightfully subject to public scorn and abuse and should be made to suffer in at least the same proportion others have had to endure at their hand.
I can't believe this stuff doesn't happen more often.
The beauty of unemployment is that people are mad as hell, and have the time to educate themselves.
A lot of people saw where the country/world was going, in 2005,2006, if not sooner, I personally did not predict a market crash, but the paradigm of ever-increasing profits was clearly one that would work for only a limited time.
Keep up the good work. When are you going to start pushing for the abolishment of the Fed, and worldwide debt relief???
Watching a politician these days is like watching a demented person living in his or her own world detached from reality.
exactly! They seem amazed that constituents want to be represented and not lectured to as why they are wrong and The Great fifteen sixteenths Great White Father in Washington is ALWAYS right
This guy is near my hometown. He's an idiot Congrssional Lifer.
no one runs against him because no one can beat steny.. too much money sent to Pax River NavAir. he takes good care of his constituents despite being full of shit
If this makes you mad, check this out:
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/08/05/House-approves-jets-for-officials...
ummmm, didn't Congress admonish the Detroit auto CEOs just this past spring for flying on private planes to Washington to testify at hearings?
Yes but the automobile companies and banks were bankrupt. Totally different for the US gov.
I like the (government) math of this:
Military wants 1 jet for 65mln
Congress adds 2 additional jets for 132 mln (where do the add. 2 mln come from/go to?)
Total cost 200 mln (where do the 3 additional mln come from/go to?)
Note that 3x65 equals 195 mln.
Something doesn't quite add up here.
Cost +plus
Next thing you know these folks will be labeled nazis for daring to challenge the admin.
AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT THE RULES!
"MARK IT ZERO, DUDE"
C'mon guy.
Most of these people are combination of sheeps and pawns.
The Tea Party Patriots? Please.
Yep. At least there wasn't some stupid old lady there with lipton tea bags dangling from her hat.
edit: I see you just received two junk flags Silver Bullet. I guess some of the fucking Patriots here want their Free Speech, but yours, not so much.
First of all, I'm not totally sure why my post has drawn so much attention.
Anyway, I was not trying to be condescening.
My point is most of these people are just obstructionists. They really aren't adding anything to the debate. I applaud their attention to the issues; I just can't agree with their tactics. I can't tell you how many people at these townhalls or people I have talked to on a daily basis have said "i don't want the gov't messing with my Medicare!"
And why isn't the "liberal" MSNBC (owned by the largest co. in the world) ever drawing attention to the "leftist" movements with the thousands of people marching for a public health care option? They do exist.
Your argument as you wrote it boils down to Yes is a valid vote but No isn't.
Fuck you, fascist.
Wait a second, your calling me a facist? I don't undserstand, please explain.
If anything I was pointing out the fascist state of our country, with, for example, GE owning NBC and its sister stations.
Nevermind, I'm not responding to this post.
I'm sure you think of yourself as a shepherd or king. People with such condescending attitudes are usually amazed to find themselves to be first ones on the chopping block.
I guess I better go tell my 91 year old grandma that has gone to one of these events that she's nothing more than a sheep in the eyes of her government. I bet she'll get even more riled up! Thanks!
"Next thing you know these folks will be labeled nazis for daring to challenge the admin."
Pelosi: Town Hall Protesters Are "Carrying Swastikas"
(video)
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/08/05/pelosi_town_hall_protesters_are_carrying_swastikas.html
Fookin hell mate, dat waz bloody quik.
i have reported ZH to flag@whorehouse.gov .. i suggest you do the same ...
hey hey hey, there may be some hope for this country after-all, that guy is the greenest shoot I've seen!
And in other news, the SEC caves again:
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200908061338DOWJONES...
God forbid anyone who knows the full story go to jail.
15 fucking million dollars for accounting fraud of that magnitude?
No wonder the rich believe they own the country...because they do!
you misunderstand - these subversives are just republican operatives, likely birthers and/or 911 truthers - dissension will not be tolerated -
Right, anyone who vocally disagrees with the policies/complacency/lack of any common sense of their so-called representitives is a "subversive". God forbid anyone have their own opinion that they are passionate about, they must be getting paid to be so excited about something...
anon 27569 your bullshit sounds fishy, I'm reporting you...
COOL!
Anyone up for some Goldman Bashing?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Goldman-Sachs-Cohen-New-bull-rb-2503580416...
twas already discussed here ... you can find the article if you scroll down ..
From Texas to Pennsylvania, protesters have disrupted town halls. In North Florida, an effigy of a congressman, Allen Boyd, was tarred and feathered; in New York, a congressman had to be escorted to his car by police.
http://tinyurl.com/lv5k4s
This is the video I would like to see.
Gat those bastards!
Most of that is exactly what you describe. Disruption.
How is that helping anyone? Seriously. Exactly how?
The French Revolution began as a series of disruptions. It is more famous for beheading the noble class. Literally.
Over here the nobility are bankers.
I never thought town hall meetings worth came. They came from corporate America and where always a show. Questions submitted in advance and cleared by PR staff.
In politics its the same nonsense some shill talking down to common people, lecturing them, while only taking prepared questions. Anyone who aska critical questions is removed as 'disruptive'. That's not democracy.
I never thought town hall meetings worth came. They came from corporate America and where always a show. Questions submitted in advance and cleared by PR staff.
In politics its the same nonsense some shill talking down to common people, lecturing them, while only taking prepared questions. Anyone who ask critical questions is removed as 'disruptive'. That's not democracy.
Disruption with words = protest.
Look see 1st Amendment.
Only thing missing is flying rotten fruit in the direction of the guy behind the podium.
Or maybe a shoe or two would work
this guy will have black helicopters and SUVs in front of his house in no time ..
Xe!
While I applaud the discord, there's nobody in that room except for TEA party crackpots.
This stuff has got to start somewhere, but the whole TEA party thing is riddled with unclear thinking. It makes GS the smartest guys in the room.
I hope the next Hoyer event brings more people out than just TEA party people.
I agree...it is very unfortunate that the guy and the lady sitting in front had the cognitive debate IQ of ZERO - BUT they and the other TEA party poops are there and that is a start. These people are mostly uninformed and been told by the radio talk show shills like Hannity to "let not your heart be troubled." I think others would be involved would it not be for the association the tea party people have with the Hannity crowd and the other cheerleaders who have yet to fess up to the failings of the conservative Republicans and RINOs. &*(^ the Republican party you tea partiers - I did and I once shook RR's hand as a former (R) myself (now a Libertarian/Constitutionalist aka terrorist per GAS CAN JAN).
Well educated, well spoken people need to be blasting the questions at these crooks...leave the chanting slogans to the people like the guy up front.
Also, these people need to bring Cap and Trade to the front of the argument - it is just as dangerous, even more so than the health care issue. The whole Global Warming Facism has been a onesided scam from the beginning. If Cap and Trade get passed in any form, forget about the economic damage health care might create, we'll have our modern day Dutch Tulip Bubble X $2 Trillon.
too many of us are afraid of what the administration will do to us... politically or otherwise. the idiocracy is mostly harmless to the ruling class because, well... they are so easily dismissed as crackpot loons with low IQs. why bother making an example of them?
Wow. Zerohedge is signing on to the astro-turf spawned screamer movement. Nice. I am sure the birth certificate thing will be next.
I love the financial information I can get from this site and have learned a great deal from it, but when it gets into the infantile political gibberish and conspiracy theory that belongs at Free Republic, I know it's time to find another resource.
Good luck with that. Bye.
anyone who uses the term astro-turf is a nit-wit
peace out numb nuts, theres nothing worse than a wannabe intellectual that frowns on information....
I WILL REPOST THIS:
sociologically,America is a hermetic society, and has not experienced a threat similar to Europe in all of its 233 yrs of being a Republic. You have never had an internal threat imposed by your own government, and that gives you zero credibility in identifying anti-democratic trends. Again, time is static, and also is human nature, and nothing change significantly in either individual or systemic behaviour. Power yields more power, and that power yields even more power. Until the power becomes universal and all democratic tendencies cease to be implemented. This flag thing is a neo-totalitarian method to impose systemic fear and re-enforece the power of a centralized government and suppress the freedom to express your opinion and to oppose the governmental measures, so that you don't speak against the establishment because you don't know who will report you, and what will their reasons be. Again, the same pattern is recognizable in every centralized society when it went into transition to a totalitarian one. So you have no right to call my observation a intellectual garbage just because you read something about totalitarian regimes in some books, or took some courses in history while you were in college. i have lived trough one of those totalitarian societies and participated in bringing another one down. And i talk from experience, not from speculative prepositions which are drawn from some history book. Again, talk to the Holocaust survivors and ask them if the see any resemblance to Germany. Go ahead ask them what they think about all the measures Bush enacted and which go against the US constitution, plus all the measures that went under the public radar. Try to research idiomatic similarities between Germany and present day US. Just because you THINK it cant happen here, doesn't mean that it cant happen here. History is cyclical, and i really hope you will not have to experience that.
cheeky that bold txt is really hard on the eyes....
sorry D.O.D cant edit it anymore
Just don't do it again, alright! I need to have my eyes checked now
So, who is the "totalitarian" power? The ineffectual slime-ball politician or the screamers spawned by the big business/right wing/health insurance lobby? I am not belittling your point, I am pointing out that neither side here is fighting for the voter. This is a hot corporate-interests on corporate-interest affair, and to describe it as anything is intellectually dishonest.
I appreciate your concern trolling about our future, but if people like you and others on this site think that these bozos represent a real "grassroots" movement, then the future is already lost.
well guess what Einstein .. when corporate interest comes before the interest of the people it is called fascism .. i cant believe how many idiots inhabit this forum ... but its not like i actually give a shit, cause I'm not an American, I'm just pointing you to my experience of this kind of problem .. it is your country, and you will go down with it ... not me ... so stay blind, i couldn't care less ...
CB - fascism is when the state controls the corporations (go look it up) and tells them what to do. That is obviously not what is happening here, if anything, the corporations control the state.
"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." -Twain
GM, AIG, C,BAC etc. need i go on ....
We really don't own these corporations. We have stakes in them with no voting interest. This is not socialism, is American-style capitalism. You know, socializing the losses and privatizing the gains...
Your concern duly noted. But, since you don't live here, maybe you should realize your opinion is irrelevant. There is no way on God's green earth the corporations or government are going to take away our Constitutional authority. And, for you to even hint of that shows how little you know about what courses through the blood of Americans. We are not a homogenized society like Germany. We are gun-toting, government-hating, free-thinking sons of bitches. And what has been happening heretofore is fraud. Fraud happens outside of the public eye. Now that the public sees what is going on, they are in fact repudiating the system right before our eyes. Watch and learn what it is to be an American.
so its OK when your fucking presidents tell the world what to do and when they think they know the cultural background of every nation on the planet, and then they bomb it back to the stone age. Cut the crap. When you fuckers stop telling the world what to do and stop bombing it like you did every single day since 1953, THEN i will stop criticizing America and pointing out the mistakes it made and those which is doing now. until then GFY ! Oh and if you wanted to make this site to be for Americans only you should have had put a big sign that writes " NO LOWER SPECIES ( FOREIGNERS ) ALLOWED" .... and again go fuck yourself you prick ...
"fascism is when the state controls the corporations (go look it up) and tells them what to do. That is obviously not what is happening here"
Holy shit. You really didn't just say that, did you?
*Apparently the dude/dudette has not worked for a bureaucratic corporate regime that breeds all the lobbyist who write our oppressive laws for their mammon whores in DC.
There is an inherent risk when the political process breaks down. Its not necessarily the best with the purest motives that are the most vocal or most active.
Buddy, it's fucking laughable that you think the people in that video are pawns, and that you are not. People protest because they want to. By dismissing them, you encase yourself in a little bubble that is fed to you by 'your side'.
Wise up, SUCKER, your country is being destroyed while you pat yourself on the back.
why do the uneducated always equate corporatists with right-wingers? dig a little deeper, these guys show up with all different shades of political stripes... at least in their appearances.
They are collectivists all.
I have great healthcare. So do 250,000,000 other Americans. Why the hell should we give up what we have plus pay for a bunch of losers who either can't or won't get their own healthcare?
Because you're an asshole.
So what was war with Canada?
We tried to steal their land and they marched down to the DC and burned the WH.
What was the civil war?
Go peddel you crap to someone who doesn't have an education.
now listen carefully little child ... i wasn't talking about America, and the next information may surprise you, but, America is not the only country on the fucking planet ... i was talking about Europe, and you have show yourself as uneducated little ethnocentric brat and nothing else ..
Europe? Isn't that where they kill Jews, beat Roma, and generally despise anyone that isn't white?
no, that would be Alabama or Mississippi
And Europe. Have you been to France?
i have an apartment there, but true, there is that kind of stuff happening in EU, but i would not say that is happening in France. Try Ukraine, Russia ( Moscow mostly ), Czech Republic, Slovakia etc, but certainly not in a country with predominant roman population. There were few incidents when Le Pen has had his little run on the presidency, but that passed ... Don't get me wrong, the French can be douches, but are mainly non violent, except when it comes to protesting against the government. In 2002 they burned the whole block filled with cars in the 16th arrondissement.
Those were Algerians, not French people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lRUPOPfULQ&feature=related
Fail. Wrong riot. That one is from 2006 and just a bunch of stupid kids.
This is the one I'm talking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm1JWiXHeZM
Ain't no Jewz in Mississippi. Hell I guess Mississippi is like Europe. "Pack your bags ma! We're going to Germany via Jackson, Mississippi."
No that would be Europe. The concept of the American ghetto was inherited from the racists thugs in Europe. Thugs who still run ghettos and herd all immigrants into said facilities. America is substantially more integrated than Europe is...where racism still runs very deep. Here we actually blow about it and try to deal with it on some level. In Europe they just brush it under the rug. Along with all of the brown people with it.
so, you are calling me a racist
most readers here are american so stop playing the 'iam euro' card every thread; or go back to your normal shitty french gay blogs.
27593 - See ya!
Whose birth certificate are your referring to?
If it looks like bull-sheet, and smells like bull-sheet, (and costs the taxpayer $1 trillion), then eventually people are going to start calling it bull-sheet.
These guys believe its a great country:
Goldman Sachs theft continues
http://www.goldmansachs666.com/2009/08/goldman-sachs-theft-continues.html
These guys are having their doubts:
Hunger hits Detroit's middle class
Food has long been an issue in this city without a major supermarket. Now demand for assistance is rising, affecting a whole new set of people.
http://tinyurl.com/myfn4c
Rather than pointing out Hoyer's lies, the people in the audience should have stood silent, with their backs turned to him... Let's see how the politicians like the feeling of being ignored and disrespected...