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Rep. Steny Hoyer (D) Called A Liar, Shouted Down For Presenting Misleading Economic Data
The American people are becoming more educated... and more angry...
In other news, Obama's healthcare plan appropriately compared to Erie Canal, set to flush cash out of pockets of majority.
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The politicians are no longer relevant. The voters no longer count in selecting them. Corporations fund who they want elected, M$M does their Democracy Dance around the annointed, and whichever empty suit actually gets the job takes orders from lobbyists or gets the boot next cycle.
Don't lapse into thinking that anything presented from, about or within Congress reflects reality or the will of the people. Ain't so and ain't been so for about a generation now. Anyone actually wants the job knows the score and is in it for personal gain from the outset, and should be denied the opportunity. I suppose that means representatives should be selected at random from the voter pool, like they do with jurys. Like that will ever happen ha.
cougar
The candidates with the most skeletons in the closet receive the bulk of the funding because their dirty laundry makes them easier to control.
And for elected officials outside of control, find exploitable character flaws -- whether that be a proclivity for adultery, pedophilia, drugs, etc. -- and abuse them.
Rigging the game is easy. Very easy.
Blackmail & Bribes - The carrot and the stick - Pavlov's dog - People do almost everything to either avoid pain or to gain pleasure.
Really guys? We're advocating harassment and assault as appropriate responses to ideas and speech we don't like? And this is supposed to be progress?
Enough with the "Gat those bastards!" posts... all you're doing is discrediting yourself and the site and commentators by association.
No. We're promoting a riot. Yes it's a crime, likewise all the signers of the Declaration of Independence were defacto traitors to the British Crown. When the status quo is set to destroy you, you can either be destroyed to destroy it first. If you win, you get to write in the history books that you had a noble cause. If you don't win... well you were doomed anyway.
cougar
wow, cougar, go!
Mises: "The citizen must not be so narrowly circumscribed in his activities that, if he thinks differently from those in power, his only choice is either to perish or to destroy the machinery of state."
Kote, I usually agree with what you have to say, but on this one you have missed the boat. One cannot complain about the complacency and apathy of the American people, and in the next breath scorn those who will take the risk and say what they have to say, in the end it is a planet of the apes, like it or not. I am not saying that this is the best way to create a meaningful dialogue with the elected Representatives, but it is important that people see, as Americans we have the right to petition our gov't. One mans petition is another mans harassment, you choose your road, let others choose theirs. It will all come out in the wash, the important thing is to start the dialogue, one way or another.
cheers,
Dept. Of Defense
Rebel Alliance
"Never tell me the odds"
D.O.D., I'm not responding to what is shown in the video. I'm responding to the people promoting tarring and feathering effigies of politicians and thinking it's a good thing that they need to fear for their safety. I think by about anyone's definition that's personal and an attack. Some politicians may be idiots, and they are all manipulative (to the degree we let ourselves be manipulated), but I'd rather have them than anyone who thinks violence is an acceptable societal response to unpopular speech.
Protesting vocally and telling off politicians in open forums is great and is part of the process. Advocating tarring and feathering and personal attacks gets you thrown in the looney bin where you have absolutely no power to cause any meaningful change, and it discredits those associated with you.
an effigy is not a person. therefore, tarring and feathering an effigy cannot be personal.
Kote -
Ok, I see where you're coming from, not the rants as much as the effigies and implied threats of violence. It's already been commented that the people have already tried emails, letters and phone calls, actions of a polite and rational society.... they were ignored...Is that taxation without representation?
'When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.'
I realize war and violence is not the answer, but the gov't doesn't. Active military troops have already been stationed on American soil, for the first time in history, for the express purpose of civil unrest.
I'm sure quoting the Declaration of Independence will get me flagged somewhere, and that my friend is the point.
What is the alternative method of communication you suggest? Preferably something that hasn't already been tried and proven to fail.
well said again DOD. +10
Take ZH for example. I believe that the recent SEC / senate actions on HFT have a lot to do with the grass roots ZH campaign. A lot of good can happen when people within the system want to make changes.
It's all about credibility. ZH is credible because it is right, it is original, and it's connected to tips from insiders who matter. The ones running the show right now, from GS etc, have credibility within the system because they played the game and came out on top. Working for GS, working for the FED, working for the government, doesn't change the person. If you want to make a difference, find a way to make yourself credible by taking on one of those roles or by doing something original like ZH has done.
Who is going to have the ear of congress on finance... some guy shouting about shooting politicians, or a CEO or NYTimes journalist or HBS Professor? Shouting "screw the system" is counterproductive. Play by the rules, earn some credibility, and then you can make some real change.
to paraphrase, "Be the system to beat the system"... No thanks. I'm just terrible at shilling bull shit as caviar. And if you want to make your way through the system, that's what you're going to have to do.
If you happen to be one that is exceptional at shilling bull-shit to morons, you might make your way up the ranks. However overtime, if you are not on constant vigil of your own motives, you may end up suffering Stockholm syndrome, empathizing with your corporate feudal lords.
Yes I once believed the best way to change the system was from the inside, I no longer believe that to be true.
So I am looking for a new way to communicate, one that hasn't been tried and proven to fail, but you are right. ZH beat me to the punch, and has done a fantastic job at it.... KUDOS TO ZH, VIVA LA MAYHEM!!!
DOD, you are on fire. Thank you and others on this thread for making me realize I'm not alone.
"Yes I once believed the best way to change the system was from the inside, I no longer believe that to be true."
Or phrased another way, a thoroughly corrupted system by its corrupt nature cannot be fixed from within.
No Anon 28058, you are not alone, and thanks...
P.S. @ Kote,
Have you even seen Fight Club?!?
Lol of course I have :). On the other hand...
Tyler: Alas, I can not go into details for obvious reasons. However, I can tell you that between the four authors of Zero Hedge, we have over two decades of corporate finance advisory, investing and operational experience.
Even TD's an insider. And the change brought by this site is a direct result of insiders reading the site, acting on what they read, and sending in tips. I'm not saying the only way to cause change is from within, but it's certainly the most effective method I can see. I can't see any way that alienating insiders is helpful unless you are drumming up support for a complete revolution by force... which, let's face it, isn't going to happen.
just checkin'
=]
Kote,
there are but 3 possibilities with you based on your post #27970.
1) you were born this ignorant
2) your ignorance is the result of some mighty fine post-secondary schoolin'
3) you are part of the problem
if it's #1 or 2 there is hope for you. if it's #3, then we all need to worry about you.
This is a nice sentiment but it has no relevance to the America we live in. The US imprisons more of its citizenry than any other industrialized nation. Violence is considered an acceptable response by the government to someone smoking pot or operating a lemonade stand. Police departments across the nation are increasingly militarized. The government in its own zeal for violence is making violence acceptable for the citizens.
"Do as I say not as I do" doesn't work very long.
Tarring effigies was THE protest form in the 19th Century.
It's been done for centuries: politicians recognize it for what it is -- voter rage.
Voter rage is all that you're going to communicate to Hoyer & Co.
Congressional speech set-pieces never equal a debate club.
You're looking at the raw ugly face of democracy: pissed-off voters.
well said, DOD. from the US Constitution:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I think we are beyond the point of sensible discussions with our congressmen and women, we tried that with TARP through emailing/calling our representatives in opposition of it passing. They completely ignored us. I think it's time the gloves came off.
F'in-A!
oh I get it...your supposed to sit quietly and take it as it comes because by transcendent meditation our rightious elected officials will do what is correct for the country,right? Ever since the behind closed door coup for the billions occurred by Paulson---- where everybody faxed, emailed, and called their representative in disagreement---and the results were 100 % in direct conflict to what constituents wanted...actually told you a lot about the body politic.
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
-Bishop Desmond Tutu
I never said do nothing... but be smart. ZH is causing change because of reasonable and rational thought and argument. Some moron supporting tarring and feathering is just propping up the other side and harming the chance for real change.
Tar and Feather? Hell, I support hanging after a trial.
Smart how...I mean everything is gamed..no one really does the right thing...as long as your okay, most people don't care whats going on with the next guy..as long as you have health care, most people don't care that someone else was denied a treatment...I mean that works when it's a minority of people. I really don't have the answers..not that smart but when you see the thievery on a daily basis....and you can rationalize anything you want..you know it's thievery...at some point the crowds become belligerent,,,maybe for right reasons, maybe for wrong reasons...but at that point who is to blame?
Kote, you're one of the few rational people in this thread.
Anyone advocating violence as an answer towards elected politicians they don't happen to agree with is no friend of democracy or the Constitution.
why is the second amendment there?
you should really remove your head from your ass ..
Sorry Kote, it's time fot you to get the f u c k out of the way.
Provision your shelter for a long time frame.
"Harrassment and assault" are of course going too far, but I would love for Congress to start to get the message the people understand how much money is being shoveled to oligarchs, and that we are not at all happy about it. If politicians are faced wherever they go with people who are clearly pissed, without getting violent or dangerous, I think that's just fine.
Politicians act only out of fear or greed.
Kote, I'll let some other cat say what I'm thinking:
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
-T. Jefferson, President and noted Power harasser.
Agreed... but fear of the people shouldn't mean fear of being shot. Government officials should fear looking foolish and being voted and cast out.
Also, Jefferson didn't become president and gain the power to do great things by being a crazy and shouting about pulling out shotguns on people he didn't agree with.
What the hell are you braying about.
Kote, I'm thinking 18 to 24 months of supplies is what you probably need to think about.
That horse left he barn decades ago. Hoping it will still return is mental illness.
Kote said: "Jefferson didn't become president and gain the power to do great things by being a crazy and shouting about pulling out shotguns on people he didn't agree with."
You've obviously never read much Jefferson.
some more news from the Bear Mountain news service:
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/08/foreclosures.html
short the stock market
Agreed the D vs. R and left vs. right paradigm is a false one. Both sides favor corporate interests and special interests over the general good health and benefits of the country.
Very few are NOT bought - kucinich, paul and sanders - all from different sides of aisle and beliefs but principled and you know exactly what they believe and are consistent.
In austin, my district, the citizens went after Lloyd Doggett - a nice guy democrat over healthcare bill.
The anger out there is palpable and getting worse daily regardless of the all time stock rally.
People are pissed.
Here is the youtube of them shooting down the congressman in austin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8UjY3YDlwA
I trust you meant "shouting", not shooting. Far too many crazies around these days.
Most work for the government.
Only 2 minutes, I wanted to see the whole thing!
This blog seems overrun by Reichwingers for the general support of the lobbyist sponsored, Teabagging efforts to disrupt democratic town hall meetings.
That's too bad...the site used to be of some value for tracking the corruption of Wall Street and the Federal Government.
I'm not a teabagger at all and I still say burn it up. That's because I rationally think that it should be destroyed. Our sytems of governance and decision making have be taken over by sociopathic corporations who hand-pick empty demogogues into positions of influence. There is no means to reverse this state of affairs once it has been established and they won't voluntarily let go. Fine, burn it all up and them with it and flush the ashes into the sea.
Start from the premise that when the will of the people is subverted, the institution of democracy will set ITSELF ablaze as a defense mechanism. Once you get past that, the road opens up.
cougar
cougar, you are rampaging. Keep going.
The smug "I don't believe its" with a million or so net worth better figure it out soon because they are not in the club or invited to the great party.
bingo!
Right now: not in top 1-2%, "Fuck you!"
Coming soon maybe: in top 1-2%, "Run, Forrest, run!"
i f you were, in fact educated in any sort of was, you would see who the actual Reichwinger ist ... hint; he looks like Puff Daddy but sounds like Chomsky ...
Buddy, I'm a capital D democrat. This is not about r v. D.
Quit being such a sucker.
You are attributing these comments to "Reichwingers" and lobbyist sponsored/organized teabagging efforts? You really aren't serious, are you?
A lot of us are Obama supporters (current or former) who were hopeful to see change that we could believe in. All we have seen is more of the same; A LOT MORE...did you ever stop to think that the corruption on Wall Street and the corruption of the Federal government are exactally what these posts are all about. Nothing has changed. The only policical angle on this is that no one (Republicans nor Democrats) is doing ANYTHING to clean up this mess.
Amen...or since I don't believe in god...Kaw Kaw!!!!!
Exactly. R vs. D is divide and loot.
Word is bond
"is doing ANYTHING to clean up this mess"
You mean something like:
taxing AIG bonuses 90%
getting shareholders to have binding say on executive compansation
reforming health care that is over burdening corporations with benefit costs and making them uncompetitive with world compnaies
reforming healthcare so that all americans have right to ....General warefare..(from Constitution)
getting the reform of rating agencies
recomending ban on flashtrading
impelemnting Pay as you Go budget neutrality
giving extension to unemployment benefits
sending bailouts to States
bailouts to high milage car buyers
bailout to new homebuyers
bailout to poor with income tax cut
...........
How much of the $3.5 BILLION of the Merrril Lynch bonuses were taxed?
Shareholders have always had the power of proxy...or investing in another company.
Health care reform is a joke. Why not prohibit insurance companies from discriminating against people who have pre-existing conditions and eliminate usual and customary billed charges?
How LOW will wages have to be before we are "competitive" with world companies?
Americans have a constitutional right to warefare? Are you referring to the video game?
Reform of the rating agencies? Name ONE reform!
Recommending a ban on flash trading is good but did they IMPLEMENT a ban?
Pay as You Go budget neutrality...are you fucking serious?!
Giving extensions to unemployment benefits wouldn't be necessary if we were CREATING jobs in this country.
None of the states have been or should be bailed out, period! (Unless, of course, you count the stimulus pork.)
Great, let's force give people some dough so they can trade in their paid-off car for a $30,000 replacement. Brilliant!
Oh, while we're at it let's give $8,000 to a new homebuyer. How much do you want to be that they are going to be upside down in that house in 2-years from now? HOUSES ARE STILL OVER PRICED!!!
Finally, let's give some tax money to people who don't qualify to pay taxes in the first place.
**Thanks for the laugh...**
Listen. This Blog is not being over run by anyone. 99% of the time the content is not political. I hate my representative more than anyone on this planet...his name is John Culberson and he is a fear mongering liar. He held a "town hall" during Obama's health speach and basically lied to everyone on the phone. But the Democrats are not that different. The Speaker of the House is not making good choices for America, she is pushing an agenda. Obama is a solid human being and he is a very intelligent person...but he is being hijacked without even knowing it. Bottom line is we need to have term limits for all politicians and campaign finance needs to be gutted...although given how ignorant the majority of our fellow citizens are w.r.t. economics and global affairs, I sometimes think that we have what we deserve.
obama is a solid tool for the rockefeller money
cartel....nor is he all that intelligent....above
all he is a liar.....he is a kenyan born
indonesian citizen who has no standing to be
president of the united states.....
obama was selected in the early 1990s to be president
and has been groomed since that time by the
rockefeller controlled u of chicago...his
academic records are sealed because he received
student aid as a foreign student....
he is evil....
obamacrimes.com
Some people believe America (and by extension the world) can be saved by doing things a little differently. A little more awareness, a little more knowledge and we will be fine. Better than ever.
But others can see that the whole system is rotten, and the idea of changing things little by little is seen as fighting a losing battle.
Its not about Democrats vs Republicans, seeing that is one of the first steps toward waking up. Both sides have been bought, compromised. Thoroughly. To solve this problem requires seeing past the Democrat vs Republican 'battle'.
It is not the Republicans or Democrats who are the problem. They serve the same Corporate Overlords, which IS the problem!!!!
"democratic town hall meetings"
are you kidding?
This is top down re-education.
Yeah, "harrassment and assault" is only edgy and hip when the Black Panthers and ACORN do it right?.
+10 comment rusty
Hey Mr. Durden, if I hit on the gargantua woman with the ill-fitting underwear, do you make more money?
They are all bums except for tiny tiny minority - throw them all out. Get real people who follow constitution and great rid of all special interests except those of the US taxpayer.
Throw them out AND make sure they aren't replaced by some bozo selected by the D or R machine. Almost any candidate with a D or R after his/her name will just be more of the same and your effort to throw the current bum out will have been wasted.
I love zero hedge!!!
The Fixx - Saved By Zero
I usually only lurk here but suddenly I'm compelled to "contribute".
The tea-bagger/town hall shouters are either dupes or actors. They're being played/presented by lobbyist/industry friendly outfits like "Freedom Works" and Dick Armey in support of their rightwing agenda.
Rather than representing the "majority" these idiots are at best the fringe minority that gets their news from Free Republic, Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck.
Good night nurse, the "Freedom Works" companion conservative organization "Americans for Prosperity" has connections back to Jack Abramoff and Ralph Reed.
Thanks for your contribution...this rightwing vs. leftwing bullshit is EXACTLY why nothing will ever change in this country.
Exactly.
CNN was interviewing one of the tea-baggers this morning about their town hall meeting shout downs.
The tea-bagger was complaining that they were stuck in the back of the town hall while "the ACORN people are all up front".
Pot, meet kettle.
Some most certainly are, while others are genuinely upset. Now that special interest groups are infiltrating the protest movements, its going to be virtually impossible to tell them apart.
Until some leaders emerge, crafting a message of well defined ideas that people can rally behind, these 'protests' will be of little value.
>>Until some leaders emerge, crafting a message of well defined ideas that people can rally behind, these 'protests' will be of little value.<<
You are absolutely right...leadership is desperately needed.
The next time you see Keith Olbermmann, Rachel Maddow, or
Markos Moulitsas, tell them thanks for keeping you informed.
Then tell them to go fuck themselves.
You're a typical elistis liberal piece of shit snob talking down to people who disagree with your world view.
Fuck you.
I'm not sure what you are talking about. the folks that you have listed are all employees of the largest coporation in the world.
They may be "bashing" these tea party "patriots", but they spend ALL of their time bashing them. "There is no such thing as bad PR."
They never report on the thousands of people actually marching for a public option. Not saying its good or bad, but that is whats happening.
I haven't seen or heard of a march for the public option that has reached the triple digits.
I see you at least got to be able to read and say 4 letter words. Pretty good for a Foxaganda drone.
As Colbert said.... Facts have a well known liberal bias.
It was the Conservatives that screwed the country, starting with deficits don't matter Reagan. They love cutting taxes, but hate paying for it. Typical.
if "deficits dont matter" then you are not a "conservative".
large deficits started with hoover and accelerated
with fdr....they went ballistic starting with
lbj whose war on poverty and vietnam were
spectacular failures....
both parties partied hard at the public trough
because voters elected drunken sailors for
congressman because the candidates were always
promising to spend someone else's money for some
indispensible cause....
in the short term deficits do not matter....they
are funded through taxes or bonds - that simple..
the issue of deficits is a canard for simpletons....
even when they assume elephantine stature as
they did for this fiscal year....the spending
was funded - end of story....almost....
the issue is not whether the government runs a
deficit but how much money the government is
sucking from the people and private economy to
fund some "just" and imperative cause....what
are the opportunity costs of all of these
boondoggles and socialist utopias?
we could tax everyone 80% and run a balanced
budget....but we know that tax policy has a
very pronounced effect on productivity....
with marginal productivity of debt being negative
why add any more debt to the country? why
advocate
a shrinking gdp? what is the benefit?
government spending is out of control because
the people are out of control....americans
never met a government program it didn't like
and so the spending goes on and on and on...
Fringe minority? The latest poll numbers from main stream polling companies say that 52% of those polled oppose the current health care reform bills working their way through Congress. The numbers in opposition continue to rise as people learn what the legislation says.
Dupes or actors? Have you talked to any of these people? Doubtful so keep on spewing the completely misinformed talking points from MSNBC, Pelosi, Obama.
How many are bringing swastikas to these meeting as Pelosi claimed? Go to a townhall and see or watch the videos. This democrat led government is so out of touch with the facts on the ground and claiming these citizens at townhall meetings are Nazis is truly disgusting. Their pet bill of healthcare reform is in trouble and they resort to the thing they do best, lie.
These people are shouting at their representatives and Senators because they didn't listen to them on the TARP legislation, the Stimulus spending, auto bankruptcies and Cap and Trade. These citizens have had enough, they are mad as hell and they know they have to get in the face of their elected official to effect the outcome they desire.
So whose the Dupe anon #27646? I submit it is you.
Yeah, as if they've even READ them. They are simply listening to the MSM and Rush Limpball.
They think it means "euthanasia for granny" and "free sex change operations" and the idiots also rant about not wanting the government to mess with their medicare (!?!?!). IDIOTS.
There is a lot of chaff and FUD out there. The idiots on the right who are simply trying to kill reform have nothing to offer as an alternative, but then why would they: they WANT the poor to die like good little slimeballs. If you can't afford healthcare coverage, you SHOULD die (and quietly and out of the way damnit).
In the long run, we are all dead anyway and it is not rich or poor, republican or democrat killing you - you are dying one minute at a time. The problem is most people are too worried about dying, they don't ever live. Fear is the opposite of gratitude - if you live in this attitude it will be impossible to be fearful. Greed and fear are buttons used to manipulate the masses.
I like this quote and think it says it all: "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin. In your mind government health care is security, just like the people that voted for the Patriot Act thought they were voting for security. So much for give me liberty or give me death?
You strike me as a very emotional individual, don't let that get in the way of reason.
They could of been me. I hired them to represent my interest all over the country. I have an army of actors that just happen to agree with me and they do my bidding for a small fee. I give them hope. Who do I sound like now.
Yessir, Mr. President, sir.
"The tea-bagger/town hall shouters are either dupes or actors. They're being played/presented by lobbyist/industry friendly outfits like "Freedom Works" and Dick Armey in support of their rightwing agenda."
"Rather than representing the "majority" these idiots are at best the fringe minority that gets their news from Free Republic, Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck."
Your post is nothing but a long list of talking points strung together: tea bagger, freedom works, right wing, dick armey, fringe, free republic, rush limbaugh, glenn beck; these talking points are then followed with dupes, actors, and idiots. I bet you'll win extra points for being able to jam that many talking points into so short a post, but your post is, well, really revealing. Discredit the targets of the talking points. SOP.
And WTF were all these idiots while Bush was spending $1 trillion for a war of stupidity in Iraq (because he had a conversation with god?). They were busy watching Foxaganda. And that is still where they are - clueless in America.
There is no doubt that Bush steered our national car towards a brick wall...Obama, however, punched the gas pedal instead of the brake.
As a registered Dem who punched the 'O' ticket, I could not agree more. 'O's now resorting to hitting the nitrous-fueled supercharger with the tach already redlining.
I hope it all crashes and burns. From thence shall the Phoenix be reborn.
Yes, President Bush started a damn stupid war. There were many protests and many effigies of the man burned in the streets. I did not see violent counter protests by those that supported the war effort. I did not see white men with baseball bats bashing hippies at anti-war rallies. The fabric of domestic America was not being torn apart by the war. The destruction was unleashed thousands of miles away and Americans were not suffering daily from it. I do not agree with that destruction, but it has been done.
Now destructive forces are being turned inward against a domestic enemy called the Reichwing (wut? unbelievable comment there) as decreed by our newly elected Democratic majority. It hasn't happened yet, but be shall see if violence will erupt at these events. It will be interesting to see how it will be portrayed.
and Foxaganda cheer led the war the whole way. And it si the Foxaganda morons that will continue to screw the country. Never let facts get in the way of a good rant. Losers, all of them.
I guess it was hard for most Americans to be anti-war after the 9/11 attacks. In the same way, it is hard for most Americans to be anti-bailout after the credit crisis last September.
It is not as though we don't feel a little "dirty" about the war and the bail outs; we just don't feel dirty enough to put a stop to them. Yes, we had Foxaganda. Now we have Obamaganda. It doesn't make either right, does it?
Once again someone can't get past Left vs. Right or Republican vs. Democrat. This isn't about Bush, the last 8 years or the Democrats. Its about the fact that our Representatives from both sides of the isle are corrupt and they don't do what is in the best interests of the country. The do what they need to do to say in power, even if that means bankrupting the country or taxing you to death in the next 10 years.
The better question is why the Dems supported Bush at the time.
Your post is just as idiotic as the right-wingers wondering aloud where Cindy Sheehan has disappeared to.
So many newcomers, all with the same agenda (that's with an 'e' by the way). I've been a supporter of the Austrian School since the early 90's. Free Men, Free Markets.
Stick to your graphs and stay out of politics, douchey.
WASHINGTON (Politico) - With the summer recess turning into a cross between election-year frenzy and an Ultimate Fighting Championship, the traditional town hall is looking less desirable by the day. The recent antics of "tea party" activists and "birthers" have provided incentives for members of Congress on both sides to seek a less vulnerable alternative to face-to-face communication. And there's a good one: technology.
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5753P620090806
Those pussies are running like rabbits.
It is laughable to say the protests are manufactured.
People are criticizing the town hall protesters for "shouting down" their representatives etc.
Well, what do you expect them to do? They have tried for YEARS to have reasonable discussions with their reps but they have been ignored and LIED to while they see congress get sweetheart deals and spend us into bankruptcy. Eventually, people snap.
Well, now the spending has broken the back of the people and they are angry. You cannot ignore and trample over the people forever. Eventually, people snap.
I do not want to see anyone get hurt either financially or physically, but it is simply a statement of what will inevitably happen as they see politicians get sweetheart mortgage deals, cheat on their taxes, and then demand more and more of OUR money. It is a very sad time in our once great country. I hope we wake up in time before actions are taken that cannot be taken back.
I live in madame schwartz's district in Phila suburbs. She covers both suburban and Phila. due to gerrymandering.
She is totally unresponsive.
PS She does not know how I voted. Her behavior in relation to voters is insular, detached, and one sided.
To reach her is harder than the pope.
I'm sure many of the new comments here are part of the overall plan to discedit the health plan.
From Ecomomist View
Astroturf Along American Highways, and the Republican Plan, by Robert Reich: On our drive across America, my son and I have spotted spiffy white vans emblazoned with phrases like "ObamaCare will raise your taxes" and "ObamaCare will put bureaucrats in charge of your health." ...
This isn't grass roots. It's Astroturf. The vans carry the logo "Americans for Prosperity," one of the Washington front groups orchestrating the fight against universal health. They're using Congress's August recess to heckle Democratic representatives when they meet with their constituents, stage erszatz local anti-universal health rallies, and fill home-town media with carefully-crafted, market-tested messages demonizing healthcare reform.
The Republican party's fingerprints are all over this. FreedomWorks, another group now Astroturfing its way around America, is chaired by former House Republican Leader Dick Armey. Texas Republican Pete Sessions, who chairs the National Republican Campaign Committee, says the days of civil town halls are "now over.” Key Republican funders are forking out big bucks. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, whose ties to the GOP are legion, announced in June it would “develop a sweeping national advocacy campaign encompassing advertising, education, political activities, new media and grassroots organizing" to battle universal health and other Democratic initiatives.
Doorknob, it's clear that single payer is a fine solution, works great in the rest of the world.
Yet that's not what is being proposed.
You know damn well that if anything but single payer is passed, the American people will get the shaft.
Squealing about this like you do, is just partisan bullshit.
I'm tired of it.
Robert Reich is your source? You might as well get Pol Pot to endorse a hard working agrarian work ethic for the people.
These o-bots make the teabaggers look honest.
Oh it's so terrible when people show up to voice their opinion, how dare they. Only paid democrat operatives can do this, it's not fair.
Reich shows that the democrats are so accustomed to conservatives playing nice and rolling over that it's unconscionable that they would voice their opinion to the elite. What a whiner.
And yes my comments are meant to discredit the health plan. Like the people showing up at the townhall meetings I'm not part of some overall plan, I'm a citizen who is fed up with unresponsive legislators bankrupting our country. So you keep believing that it's some insurance cabal funding this dissent and you will continue to miss the point and the wave that will overtake you.
It on now, just what we need a real pissing party
"The nation's largest federation of labor organizations has promised to directly engage with boisterous conservative protesters at Democratic town halls during the August recess.
In a memo sent out on Thursday, AFL-CIO President John Sweeney outlined the blueprint for how the union conglomerate would step up recess activities on health care reform and other topics pertinent to the labor community. The document makes clear that Obama allies view the town hall forums as ground zero of the health care debate. It also uses the specter of the infamous 2000 recount "Brooks Brothers" protest to rally its members to the administration's side.
"The principal battleground in the campaign will be town hall meetings and other gatherings with members of Congress in their home districts," reads the memo. "We want your help to organize major union participation to counter the right-wing "Tea-Party Patriots" who will try to disrupt those meetings, as they've been trying to do to meetings for the last month. ..."
It is high time the D's fought back.
I'm a D, I'll stand against anyone who tries to shut the protesters up.
Riot!
I suggest you take a quick listen to Rachel Maddow:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32292149
She not only names names but also sites sources showing that the vast bulk of these loudmouths are NOT legit and NOT spontaneous, but are fed and laundered spam.
Maddow does nothing of the sort. She doesn't show that even ONE person at these meetings was not there legitimately or spontaneously. Nor does she show that any of them got any information from the web sites or emails she references. She does show two web sites from conservative orgs that post links (and send emails) about dates and places for some town hall meetings. However, she makes ZERO claims about how many people get info from these sources (although, presumably, at least some do), much less endorse or espouse their info.
She tries to suggest that orgs like these lead most of these poor sheeple to make these awful protests but that's all she does. She has no evidence that they do (although, again, presumably the orgs at least think that the links and emails will influence some people to take action).
She also shows that elected Repubs have endorsed these protests. Well, duh. If the shoe were on the other foot, many D reps would be endorsing the protests, too. It doesn't mean that the reps are CAUSING the protests. It's at least as likely that THEY are the ones jumping on the bandwagon and trying to benefit from protests that arose independenty of them. Ditto for the orgs who post links. (I.e., they see that many people are PO'd and trying to take action with their reps. They try to take advantage of that by posting links, etc., hoping that will bring traffic to their sites and funds to their orgs.)
Your argument confuses correlation with cause and is also a form of association by guilt. The Maddow clip doesn't show that the vast bulk of the protestors are NOT legit or spontaneous (much less that they are fed and laundered spam). If you really think it does (as opposed to just saying that in the hopes of driving traffic to MSNBC), there is probably not much point in trying to discuss policy with you.
Typical liberal bullshit - the Munchkin Reich doesn't argue the merits of his plan, he paints the opposition as evil. Sillie troll, didn't you learn about fallacious arguments in logic 101? Whether it's grassroots or "astroturf", if their arguement is right and your's is wrong, then you lose. it doesn't matter how many of your educated friends say that 2+2=5, or if the guy who says 2+2 doesn't equal 5 is ugly, fat and works for Exxon...
Repeatedly using ad hominem while complaining about the fallacies in another's argument. Priceless.
Sorry, when someone is carrying a sign with "teabag party" and similar shite on it, that totally undermines and negates their argument. It means, de facto, that they are manufactured and an official GOP operation.
Shouting down everyone, not only the speaker but the other audience members who actually want to have a discussion and give-and-take is Brownshirt behavior. This ends badly, I assure you.
Agreed, the TARP legislation outrage was real and an overwhelming landslide NOT to pass it. Congress listened the first time and then were arm twisted the 2nd time. This is still a representative republic. Throw all bums who voted for TARP and these silly expansive wars and healthcare bill out.
Plain and simple.
this is a Potemkin village
The only reaon our politicians are such scum bags is because we let wedge issues like abortion and guns and other garbage like that drive the conversations and Presidents get elected based on whether or not people think they'd like to have a beer with him. No body cares about the important issues until the economy is in the toilet. The time to hold politicians accountable is during times of prosperity and times of pain. Anyone that associates with a particular party is by definition turning his/her brain over to someone else. We should all be independant PERIOD! Dems and GOP are all cut from the same dirty rags. They're all controlled by lobbyist and the average guy is an idiot for thinking otherwise.
I still can't believe we elected W into office for 2 terms. His old man was educated, hard working, and highly intelligent. But 51% of us thought he was good...so now 95% of us suffer.
George Washington said in his Presidential farewell address, "Avoid political parties and beware foreign entanglements." That man was a GENIUS.
Thanks KawKaw. We are now approaching the true reality of what needs to be realized today. A third party of independant thought needs to evolve as the largest majority in the US.
Democrat vs Republican
Liberal vs. Conservative
Right Wing Media vs Left Wing Media
It's all crap. The Oligarks control both parties and the media. The division based on "ideologies" has been manufactured to keep the eloctorate divided. Think for yourself and look closely. You will see that this is true.
It is the oldest crowd contol technique known to civilization. And we buy this bullshit every day. Day in and day out. If we united as an electorate. These filthy slimeballs would gone quickly.
Wise Up!
.. PLEASE..
..Let's get the FED Audited and shut down ASAP! Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln and Robert Kennedy saw the problem w/the BANKSTERS..
All of them faced the assassin's bullet..
Only one lived to say his greatest accomplishment was to stop the Bank of the USA!
At least its not Code Pink who I orignally thought was gurellia marketing for Mountain Dew.
The socialist financial policy also is only a temporary one, its validity being limited to the period of transition.
Socialist politicians have taken things much more easily. They had no new opinions of their own, and from the Classical writers they took merely what they needed for the politics of the moment.
Ludwig von Mises (1881-1973) first published Socialism in German
Americans need to learn to think for themselves with assistance from the History of reason to repair there local, state, and national issues. We are in crisis mode
"have been" a long time and more than few know this. Think, read, point them to the federalist papers if you have to start there but educate them. The road to serfdom is being paved as we speak.
I have lived in many places in the Western hemisphere and nobody bows down more willingly to those with power and, even more so, with money than Americans.
The biggest illusion that Americans have of themselves is that they somehow know what freedom is and that they are willing to fight for it.
Bingo!
Yeah, it sure was embarrasing when Obama bowed to the Saudi king.
American here. Most of the Americans I know (my neighbors and family) confuse freedom with choice. Sure, being free means you can choose, but it doesn't end there. Freedom is a responsibility. We tell our kids that when they go out at night -- "You're on your own, act responsibly" -- but then we won't do the right thing ourselves. The fear is that if you do the right thing, you'll miss a deal and someone else will get the [bonus|savings|winnings|sex|drugs] you had coming. Playing by the rules is for loozers, while getting something for nothing while shafting that other guy is for the win.
People with that mindset are useless in a real democracy because they'll drop the ball as soon as it's their turn to stand for something important. Though they do burn nicely, so that's something.
cougar
Right on the money 27900. The worship of money, the wealthy and celebrities in America is repulsive.
It makes me sick.
Better wipe that froth off your mouth before it get on your Koran.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
flag as junk ?
wow! i quoted the 1st Amendment verbatim and it was flagged as junk. so sad that so many died for this right. i'm not even talking about any wars other than the Revolutionary War.
Anyone else get a chuckle out of how he compared an infrastructure plan funded by a state with a definitive end date to an endless entitlement boondoggle?
I didn't at the time, but I'm chuckling now. It didn't seem a proper comparison. Thanks for pointing it out. I was too captivated by the swarminess vs. public educated supporters rejecting further public education. It just felt like a car wreck, I didn't want to see it, but...
TD, your losing me... this is line noise red herring shit already outed on Rachel Maddow Show two days ago as lobbiest-funded antics. Now that "flash" bashing has gone mainstream, my vote is to keep up the pressure on dark pools and broaden scope into new areas of systemic issues within industry (eg, DTCC, CTA Plan, CMFA loopholes, COTR, futures-spot convergence, etc). Less is more quality, IMHO. Albeit, for sake of full disclosure, I'm a policy wonk with a vested interest in fixing the system rather than blowing it up. That said, SSRN is beckoning me back like a "jilted lover".
gammaman, there is nothing wrong with branching out occasionally and adressing the larger issues that have allowed dark pools and other market manipulations to go on.
This piece is a very small portion of what generally gets published here at ZH.
Get over it. This is the internet. Not your private club.
You're right, it's a free marketplace of ideas.
I remain a big supporter of ZH and team!
In the meantime, I'll be hanging out at SSRN.
See ya
What a dumb post. Rachel Maddow outed this? With what evidence?
Policy wonk? Fix the system? You blew your credibility by referencing Rachel Maddow. I suppose you believe everything you hear on GE TV.
What an absolute moron. Thanks for leaving.
My liege, and madam, to expostulate
What majesty should be, what duty is,
What day is day, night night, and time is time,
Were nothing but to waste night, day, and time;
Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
I will be brief. Your noble son is mad.
who is he mad at
>>I'm a policy wonk with a vested interest in fixing the system rather than blowing it up<<
Don't you remember the story about Humpty Dumpty? The SYSTEM is broken and beyond repair...it is time to start over!
Cade:
I thank you, good people—there shall be no money; all shall eat
and drink on my score, and I will apparel them all in one livery,
that they may agree like brothers, and worship me their lord.
Dick:
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
Cade:
Nay, that I mean to do.
My house rep Earl Blumenauer (OR)is ONLY having a CALL IN meeting. Guess he's a bit TIMID this go around.
Oh, it is to make it easier for the people who are working!!! lol
The worthless POS
I am in the process of writing mr. Blumenauer in response to his response to my inquiry as to why he is opposed to auditing the Fed. He said he didn't want monetary policy to become politically influenced. In my response I am telling him that any assertion that the fed is not in the BUSINESS of politicizing monetary policy is at best naive, and at worst "well I just hope you are naive".
I am also requesting that he explain to his constituents why he is choosing bank opacity over protection of the people.
I'm disappointed to learn Earl Bluemenauer is against auditing the Fed. To his credit, he did vote against TARP consistently. I'll have to get after him.
Someone needs to start taking an inventory of lamp posts in the D.C. area. I don't believe there will be enough.
I am Chumbawamba, and I say God Fucking Bless these People.
What do you think the French did with all those guillotines?
Wouldn't you just love to see one of those just show up out of the blue on the steps of the Capitol one morning? No note, no commentary, no crowd or fanfare, just a towering amalgam of timber and polished steel.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant?
Nah,
it's gravity.
Of course any successul protest group will be infiltrated, or spied on. Who are we kidding. By extension, Zero Hedge is being monitored at the present time!
The key is to not have the leader position infiltrated, which in this case, puts a lot of pressure the Tyler Durden's of the world. If he is one person any way!
Damn straight. I'm keeping track of all you moonbats and wingnuts. I'll let you all in to a little secret. It's the nutjobs that are in control.
Comparing a health care bill to buying a dog...real empirical data there.
Stealth care.
I couldn't make myself watch the whole thing, yesterday "yves" coined "agnotology" the production of ignorance. We're doomed "Magambo", please don't post any illegal suggestions for violence, and give the "Dennis Kneales" ammo to shut zh down.
this website is getting better every single day. bloomberg screenshots explaining market dynamics, and youtube video's exposing the vast majority of politicians for what they really are: liars. it cannot get much better than this.
"In other news, Obama's healthcare plan appropriately compared to Erie Canal, set to flush cash out of pockets of majority."
So TD, how do you define the current system?
How about "America's healthcare system appropriately compared to Erie Canal, set to flush cash out of pockets of majority into the pockets of insurance companies." ??
Lots of bitching, complaining and "tough talk" by a bunch of internet trolls but no one with any ideas themselves.
The Tea Party Patriots? Are you fucking serious? You are know aligning yourself with the fucking Tea Party Patriots?
Has the whole world gone mad?
Man, I'm gone....