Republicans Pushing To Count GSE Debt Toward Statutory Debt Limit May Be Surprised To Find Real Debt-To-GDP Ratio Is 130%, And That Greece Is Amateur Hour

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Mon, 02/22/2010 - 19:54 | 240834 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

Those waskally webpublicans!!

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 20:47 | 240916 colonial
colonial's picture

very funny bugs...i may use this myself one day as i live inside the silly circle

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 21:02 | 240937 Hansel
Hansel's picture

Barney Frank?  Is that you?

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 23:30 | 241111 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

how similar is 1990 to 2008 vis a vis the stress test?  but, and i never thought i would say it (hard core obama campaigner) thank whomever for the wascally wepublicans.  because they actually are an opposition party (as opposed to those incurably cowardly democrats).  even as obama copies bush in all but atmospherics, they oppose him.  audit the damn fed.  count fannie and freddie bailout to infinity in the debt.  nominate ron paul.  buy gold miners. 

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 19:54 | 240835 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

So are all of the countries going to race against each other now to get all their debt out in the open? Lets see who is worse off? Put the cards on the table?

[I can't believe I am gonna post this]

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 20:48 | 240917 Noah Vail
Noah Vail's picture

I can judge how bad things are getting by how much profanity Tyler uses. Lies are now bullshit. I'm awaiting the next escallation with trepidation, Ty.

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 20:53 | 240921 knukles
knukles's picture

The more cards on the table, the bigger the all in, so to speak.  The worst it looks the easier for His Majesty and Con-cronies to solve the crisis through higher taxes, wealth confiscation, inflation and redistributive policies. 

Home run!  Never let a crisis go to waste!

Isn't the Axis-of-Evil a cult from DC? 

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 23:57 | 241147 macfly
macfly's picture

ain't that the truth!

Tue, 02/23/2010 - 07:49 | 241305 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"The worst it looks the easier for His Majesty and Con-cronies to solve the crisis through higher taxes, wealth confiscation, inflation and redistributive policies." 

This is a truth most people will find hard to swallow. They expect all politicians and other so-called "leaders" to obscure facts and figures to keep people in the dark. But when the objective is great social and economic change and they need the masses to be in general agreement with their nefarious plans, the powers that be need it to look so bad, so absolutely catastrophic, that the great unwashed will plead with their leaders to enslave them and strip them of their freedom and wealth for their own good, if only the leaders would keep the wolves from the door.

Of course, we all know who the wolves really are but that's far too complicated a concept for the average conditioned mind to comprehend. Freedom and wealth = bad. Lowered standard of living, involuntary servitude and grand theft = good. Please turn the TV back on master, pleaseeeee.

Tue, 02/23/2010 - 16:18 | 241614 Clinteastwood
Clinteastwood's picture

Your comment is a bit too elitist for me.  The discipline of psychology tends to elitism with one of it's basic underlying assumptions; viz., examine the psychology behind behavior because that individual isn't capable of acting out of free will.  The psychologist has free will though, you betcha; that's why s/he is here---to tell you how/why your mind is/isn't working right.

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 21:09 | 240947 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Remember these are not all the cards.  This is a "slow"ante up to the table to show the black holes of debt each big enough to swallow the planet.  Each country is just slowly peaking out.  I'm reminded of an old joke.

A man was walking down the street in Moscow and saw another man walking casually wearing a grave shroud.  Thinking it strange, he went over to him and asked "Why are you wearing a grave shroud?"

"I'm wearing this because we have started a nuclear war with the United States and will all be dead soon.  I'm going to the graveyard to die there"

"Why are you walking, why not run there?"

"I don't want to cause a panic"

The missles are already in the air, they just don't want to let the peopel know.

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 23:32 | 241114 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

only a selective peek at the hole cards--could be very deceptive!

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 23:39 | 241123 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

like the joke.  my favorite though is the pun of each country peaking out of its black hole of debt.

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 23:05 | 241085 Going Down
Going Down's picture


"So are all of the countries going to race against each other now?"


When I look at the US, I think it would be a very good thing if Washington included all its liabilities in future budgets, up to and including Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Ginnie Mae, FHLB and FHA, since that would provide a much clearer (dare I say honest?) picture of where the country stands. It would also be murder on the dollar. Curiously (for many), the US is not the only party that wants the trillions in mortgage losses off the American books. Germany wants the exact same thing, something all these experts seem to be completely oblivious to.

We have entered the beggar-thy-neighbor phase of the downfall, the race to the bottom is on for currencies. Obama's ludicrous call to double US exports in 5 years fits that same idea. The one viable way left to soften the fall is to entice other countries to buy your products, because that's the only money you don't have to borrow. But you can't achieve that goal with a strong currency. China knows that all too well and keeps the renminbi pegged to the USD. Everything they own is denominated in dollars anyway. But if Germany gets its way, the Chinese currency will rise with the dollar, until the latter is on par with the Euro (it’s €1 to $1.36 today). Once that is done, Germany hopes to once again be the world's largest exporter....

This is not a fight for a meal of kings, this is a down and dirty scramble about the scraps off the table.


Tue, 02/23/2010 - 06:26 | 241299 aus_punter
aus_punter's picture

"When I look at the US, I think it would be a very good thing if Washington included all its liabilities in future budgets, up to and including Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Ginnie Mae, FHLB and FHA, since that would provide a much clearer (dare I say honest?) picture of where the country stands. It would also be murder on the dollar."


Do you think the forex market has ignored this up until now ?


Thu, 02/25/2010 - 03:44 | 244622 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I bet on US

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 19:58 | 240840 mouser98
mouser98's picture

technically, its not default until you miss a payment right?  and that won't happen as long as the printing press still works... oh you assumed payment in something other than green TP...

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 20:18 | 240878 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Stiglitz, I didn't know you kept up with ZH!!

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 20:01 | 240848 D.M. Ryan
D.M. Ryan's picture

It's similar to a Parliament. Tricks of that sort are pulled frequently in parliaments to embarrass the government, although the shenanigans tend to be confined to Question Periods.

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 20:02 | 240850 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I hate these guys.  Orzog is as weaselly as Geiththththner, and he has a brother?  jeesh.  Stieglitz is too comfortable (and he, like Volker, is the "voice of reason"????).  FNM and FRE will be the undoing of America.  That was the plan all along.  Thank Rubin, Summers, and Greenspan, not to mention BS and lil Timmy.  Oh and note that not only is Obama drinking the kool aide, so did republican's Dubya and Paulson.  There is no spoon!  Just like their are no "sides".  No left, no right.  Only right, and wrong.  They are wrong, and on purpose, for if they bring America (doelarr) to it's knees, they have the world, and if they have the world then they can run it.  They want power over all things.  Also, I think anyone who wins a nobel should be suspect from the get go.

The most interesting thing for me is how will China et al respond to these blatant manipulations from the West?  We now know they will no longer be the largest purchaser of bonds, but will they continue to engage with the US in financial war?  I say WW III is on and popping, got gold?

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 23:25 | 241107 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

They will continue to be the largest [indirect] purchaser of bonds, as that ensures the status quo. The alternative is a weaker dollar, diminished exports and hundreds of millions hungry and unhappy Chinese.

Your gold hoarding ambitions will also fall flat on their face. Gold prices will be suppressed in a concerted sovereign effort, lest you prefer to buy gold instead of clip coupons. Even if you're right and we actually get to a point where you would actually have use for gold, then you still won't be able to enjoy the rewards of your brilliant foresight because you will be afraid to show/tell you have gold.

Keep it real.

Tue, 02/23/2010 - 00:02 | 241150 macfly
macfly's picture

you nailed my concern about Au, the shops and gas stations don't take it if you have coins, and if its paper (ETF,mining stocks etc) it can vanish along with the institution that holds it.

Tue, 02/23/2010 - 00:23 | 241170 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

trading is not the matter the matter is value.  unless the earth gets hit by solar flares then Visa will rule the day.  and silver btw for gas, historical references aside.

Tue, 02/23/2010 - 00:17 | 241163 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

"Diminish exports"?  To whome will they sell their WallyWorld crap  to?  Americans have no money to purchase anything with.  "Hundreds of millions"......and they are chinesse.  good.  "we have too many people anyway" is what ;merica will say when faced with the fact that jobs are never coming back....The devil's advocate, and he will be causing a ruckus in the US in just a year or so.  Gold is undervalued right now.  That is all I am saying.

Tue, 02/23/2010 - 03:17 | 241265 PenGun
PenGun's picture

 Ten minutes after the credit cards go down gold will be happily accepted by many for food, guns and ammo. A 0.00 g scale is like $15 eh'.

Tue, 02/01/2011 - 01:04 | 922868 thebark
thebark's picture

are you really THAT impossibly stupid??...when the SHTF EVERYTHING will be supressed...  but dont think for a second that "exchange" centers or stores wont pop up to convert your gold into you can buy any god damn thing you want.

I have a great hold on to your US dollars!!...I`ll take my gold...and dont worry...I wont be showing or telling....and I`ll have a little extra ammo in case someone wonders why Im not getting skinny.

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 23:45 | 241130 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

like geiththththner.  he's episcopalian you know (incendiary comment).

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 20:02 | 240851 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

I wonder how much we're going to hear about this proposal in the news.

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 22:14 | 241024 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture


Mon, 02/22/2010 - 22:58 | 241077 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Ha, Ha, best laugh I have had all day

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 20:04 | 240854 john_connor
john_connor's picture

I think we need to get the populist fervor going again.  It was going strong up to the Mass. senate election and then everyone kind of quieted down after O announced the Volcker rule proposal.

We need to be relentless in calling our representatives and educating friends and family about the sad state of affairs.

Its time to vote nearly everyone out, and it will take a tremendous effort to do so.

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 20:24 | 240889 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

Vote out all the bastards.

Love it, Sir Connor. 

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 20:38 | 240905 ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

Voting out Dems to vote in Rhinos, or vice versa, won't make a damn bit of difference.  Vote for third party candidates, anyone, doesn't matter.

A bipartisan jobs bill cleared a GOP filibuster on Monday with critical momentum provided by the Senate's newest Republican, Scott Brown of Massachusetts.

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 21:37 | 240986 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

Yes.It is high time to remove all incumbents.They have to go.


Mon, 02/22/2010 - 23:36 | 241117 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

By-- by all democrats AND Rinos, let the chips fall where they may. These criminals have bankrupted the country.

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 21:41 | 240990 john_connor
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Voting Brown in was a must in order to destroy the filibuster proof majority.  In that context, and considering what is currently at stake, the Mass. senatorial election was the most important thing to happen in this formerly democratic republic in a long time.

In short, we must crawl before we walk, walk before we run, etc.

Otherwise I agree, nearly all Dems and Repubs should be replaced by third party candidates.

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 22:33 | 241049 jesus
jesus's picture

Actually, it seems to have had the opposite effect, which is maybe why the Dems fielded such a joke of a candidate. When they had the 60 majority they couldn't accomplish anything at all. Now that they have 59 it is very easy to employ parliamentary methods to get simple majority votes (ala Healthcare reconciliation).

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 22:38 | 241053 john_connor
john_connor's picture

thats hilarious.  We would already have a bill passed if it weren't for Brown.   Not to mention we would be staring down the barrel of cap and trade.

reconciliation is just another tool in the legislative process.

Tue, 02/23/2010 - 03:38 | 241268 jesus
jesus's picture

They had basically two years to pass anything they wanted. What did they do with it? Nothing but bicker and bullshit, along with Republicrat approved measures like bank blowjobs. The Dems can be counted on to be utterly worthless when in power.


Mon, 02/22/2010 - 23:37 | 241119 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture


Tue, 02/23/2010 - 10:18 | 241408 BoeingSpaceliner797
BoeingSpaceliner797's picture

Otherwise I agree, nearly all Dems and Repubs should be replaced by third party candidates.

Therein lies the dilemma facing we the people.  I agree with your viewpoint quoted above.  However, once this viewpoint reaches critical mass with the electorate, you can expect TPTB to coopt and corrupt third party candidates as well.  Just look at the Tea Party movement.  At almost the precise instant it gained momentum it was coopted by the likes of Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Tom Trancedo, et al. 

So, the trick is for, somehow, the electorate to reach this critical mass/momentum without it attracting any attention whatsoever from TPTB.  But this implies that critical mass can be achieved without getting the word out.  

Perhaps the only way out of this quagmire for us is a fail of epic proportions.  But what awaits us on the other side of the epic fail?

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 22:02 | 241018 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

There aren't many, but Paul wins straw-poll ("do you have any [electability] sir?"  I will never forget that moment) and Kucinich is awesome.  I am also smelling ventura in the mix (Secretary of Defense?).  Merkley is a new favorite, and I have to shout out to Defazio!  anyone stepping into the ring I hope considers no afiliation to either party.  this will be refreshing.  any way these true ladies and gentlemen go about politics, I hope they all get together and start the 3rd party, it is long overdue.

Ron Paul answers question at Debate:

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 23:55 | 241144 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

don't get too hysterical.  obama seemed like a whole 'nother business as a candidate.  something about being elected, i guess.  possibly because he's so much older (and he's thought about it longer), ron paul may have a greater chance of translating his platform into reality, especially as much of it is able to be done via executive decision (or at least the part of his platform that i like, tee hee as my older sister says).

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 22:11 | 241023 milbank
milbank's picture

I assume by "vote nearly everyone out" you mean "and vote the other guys in" as the solution.

You're by definition, insane Connor.  How many times do you have to do that before you start to catch on to what's behind the curtain when it comes to "elections" and "choice"?

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 22:35 | 241050 john_connor
john_connor's picture

Milbank, please don't patronize me you dumbass.  Of course this is no longer a real democracy.  Perhaps you have another solution aside from voting in an independent candidate?  Maybe we should just not vote?  Please expand on an idea rather than pick apart sentences based on your preconceived assumptions.

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 23:58 | 241115 milbank
milbank's picture

"Vote nearly everyone out" is your solution?  Wouldn't that be a waste of time if "Of course this is no longer a real democracy." 

"This" never was a "real democracy."

I realize this is telling a child there is no Santa Claus but, that's the way it is and has been since the beginning of the country.

My solution?  Nothing.  There are things I can change and things I can't change. I trade stocks.  I make a shitload of money.  I live well and I'm doing fine.

Am I patronizing your childish rants again?

You betcha.

Grow up boy.  You're wasting ZH's bandwidth.

Tue, 02/23/2010 - 00:01 | 241148 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

you underestimate the times in which you live.  depressions, especially deflationary depressions, are the furnaces in which radical political change is forged.

Tue, 02/23/2010 - 00:28 | 241161 milbank
milbank's picture

You don't say! 

Give me an example.

Tue, 02/23/2010 - 00:36 | 241179 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

the closest comparison to our time is the 1930's which, in the english speaking world, for the first time in history, established a regime of recognized and powerful labor unions; regulation of the financial sector to avoid excessive leverage and a variety of frauds; national pensions and relief; and the (ultimate) defeat of a global fascist attempt to conquer the world.  it was in all the newspapers.  one might say but things aren't that different now.  and one might reply oh but once they were. 

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