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Rick Santelli tells the truth about GLD and SLV on CNBC [Video]
Something that is known to ZH readership since day one, is now finally said openly on the most watched [probably] business channel in the world.
And just for the sake of it, lets thrown in Peter Schiff and his take on the real price of gold.
Things look grim for the FIAT, even more so with all the recent articles assessing gold as, not a substitute for current form of currency, but THE preferred form of currency. Gold is finally getting the attention it should have been given to long, long time ago.
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God I hope all this ETF bullshit comes crashing down.
Shysters....
.
Rick Rules....the rest of the retards at CNBC doesn't even understand what he is talking about
deleted
You delete too often, IMHO.
My bullish USD warnings since 2009 on weekly and monthly charts have not changed and further USD strength and thus EURO weakness is still expected, so USD rally and EURO downtrend will continue.
http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com
http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/latest-market-outlook-1
There isn't one person here on ZH that doesn't already know how bad silver has been sold naked short by JPM. Last week there was a press release on Saturday regarding a DOJ probe into the manipulation, that never was talked about on any of the media outlets on Monday. It was buried behind all the propoganda.
Fact is Santelli is the only one on CNBC who tells the truth no matter what people think or say. He doesn't let the likes of Leisman run him over and turn very bad into a media spin of great. We also know JPM can never cover the 350,000,000 ounces of silver they are naked short the market. Silver should be trading $400 easy. Why naked shorting is even allowed in the markets is beyond me, and this is the very cause of the casino type market evolution. I can't take your money for a car I claim to sell you, and never deliver the car right? This is a ponzi scheme at its finest that the DOJ needs to bring to a halt quick. JPM probably never has any plan to cover or buy all that silver, yet they should be made to do just that to teach all these greedy banks, they will pay the price for cheating, stealing, and manipulating.
Will the DOJ step up to the plate and charge JPM like they should? In my opinion, charges should be coming soon or had already been filed.
Came late to this party, which is to say after Leo's post received the requisite number of junks to render it invisible. However, I feel like jumping around a few of the points mentioned so far....
Odd that China would be the target of the quote about sane men not cutting off their own jewelry. Sane countries don't melt their plowshares into steel ingots, and then starve. Sane countries do not have an oddly named Cultural Revolution where they destroyed most of the surviving culture. I don't think sane countries build empty cities either, though I could be wrong.
Also, it would not seem as if sane countries think they can spend their way to prosperity, or that the solution to a problem caused by too much debt is more debt.
Sanity has almost as long a history of deserting countries as it does individual men. China, Cambodia, Rwanda, Nazi Germany...in fact, on an historical timeline it seems it is on the rise.
On Gold: of course it has no inherent value. Many people, however, believe in it, and may not be receptive to Leo's or anyone else's "logical arguments". Logic and humanity are rarely in the same room. I can argue that, for example, the vast majority of "people of faith" are wasting their time and devoting their lives to religious figures who were either liars or lunatics (the number of religions that portray reality accurately is either zero or one; it cannot be more than one and may well be zero), but nothing I can say will stop people from attending their particular house of worship on Friday, Saturday or Sunday, or thinking they are the only ones who will make out okay over time.
Gold has a longer history than anybody's god, so if anyone expects Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, etc. to survive, then one must similarly expect some belief in gold as a store of value to survive.
Many folks on this site are Developed World-centric, ignoring the fact that only very recently has most of the world come to trust other objects or entities as stores of value (bank accounts, insurance policies, ownership of land, etc.). A financial crisis where banks fail or governments again outlaw private ownership of land could quickly turn things back, which is to say toward gold. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems prudent to have some.
How can I invest in something "worthwhile"? First, as noted, unless I'm buying an IPO, any equity investment I make has at best an indirect link to the company. Second, does the world need 1000 different kinds of toothpaste? A hundred brands of cars? If these are "worthwhile" because they employ people, then I can invest in a company that mines gold, too, or I can buy gold from a bullion dealer who employs staff to run the business.
A range of opinions is useful, even if none of us ever change our minds. I don't want to listen to only Jim Sinclair any more than I only want to listen to Jim Cramer. In fact, I prefer to turn both off and listen to Jim Grant. At least he's funny. Nobody is right all the time; most people, in fact, are wrong most of the time. Some people are half right, too, as in bullish on the equity market for the past year but then being invested in just about the only sector that is down, while others have been wrong about the market, but were invested in one of the best performing market sectors.
Finally, on money and debt....both are "wonderful" because if you require more of either you can always just make as much as you need. Even then sometimes the appetite exceeds the supply, like when folks were so hungry for more debt that they mimicked its behavior by creating synthetic debt instruments. Certainly, in retrospect, that seemed equivalent to a man cutting off his own essence.
I don't know where the marginal piece of paper or the marginal debt is that renders every one coming before them worthless, but what I do know is we are a lot closer to finding out than we were a year or two ago. Our "sane" Chinese said that every journey begins with a single step. Well, every journey also ends with a single step, as has every fiat currency ever issued in all of human history. Are we near the end of our journey? Maybe. Maybe not. It doesn't hurt, however, to hedge just in case.
Most excellent post. I would very much enjoy to see a contributing piece from you.
I think his posts are contributing pieces anyway, he just hasn't asked for a spot yet. His analysis is not superficial, his ability to be introspective is satisfying and his writing is solid too.
Agreed.
frankly I think Schiff getting into the Senate is just about America's only hope to avoid the worst possible scenario going forwards. unfortunately given general understanding and IQ levels there its much more likely that the wife of a fucking wrestler will get elected instead.
he has been and continues to be pretty much right on the macro picture, he's maybe just a little too early on his calls, but he's not a trader, and he has a clearer understanding of the broader issues than 99.9999999% of the rest of Americans, and 100% of what passes for Government there.
for Leo to open up with "Schiff is an idiot.. yada yada yada" is just beyond surreal.
talk about cant see the wood for the trees.
"What if elephants sprout wings, will they be able to fly?"
EPIC!
Thanks Cheeky. I enjoy your contributions!
Question for you or anyone:
Are there any credible breakdowns on gold, like who owns it, ETF's, physical, where is it, how much, in what form, etc..?
What would you think would happen if there were a global delevering, crash, and asset prices went down across the board? This goes to the question of who owns gold now, I suppose, how they own it and what they would do with their physical or ETF's upon margin calls and delevering. Do you suspect it could retract in price at all and consolidate with some turnover or not at all?
Thank you Fraud-Esq
Since GLD ETF is treated as a commodity derivative by BIS, you can find all the necessary data on BIS statistics page which tracks derivatives. The problem with BIS is that the report is semi-annual and up-to-date statistics is unavailable. That said, LBMA also publishes statistic concerning gold but its pretty poor. LMBA does however offer technical dta regarding clearing turnovers, GOFO, LIBOR-GOFO, multi-currency denominated spot prices, forward rates etc etc. If you really wish to dig deeper into gold market i propose you consult with BIS statistics regarding commodities [be sure to include commodity derivatives such as options, futures and most importantly forwards which can especially distort the price of actual gold in circulation, since miners often offer the gold which is not mined by engaging in forwards [to settle cost of doing business]]. Also a good indicator is LIBOR-GOFO which shows a)how much would a bullion bank earn shorting if the price of gold trades lower or sideways b) short interest on gold [higher GOFO, higher short interest, if LIBOR-GOFO goes into negative the trend is on the short side,] c) make sure you watch LIBOR-GOFO by first watching LIBOR and GOFO separately; since the spread might not indicate much itself might not indicate much, but there could be serious volatility in both GOFO and LIBOR independently. My take is, if you want to know the movement of gold price these are the best indicators to watch. It is not necessary to have trust ownership structure [GLD] to have a good insight into the market, just watch GOFO, LIBOR, LIBOR-GOFO and things should be clear. Basically higher GOFO more short interest, lower GOFO more long interest. As for the LIBOR; i think i dont need to explain it. Also try CME and their data sets since they are an active exchange [besides LBMA] on which gold instruments and derivatives are traded.
Cheeky: Thanks for taking the time. I'm trying to "frame" how I THINK GOLD as accurately as possible...this helps! I really appreciate it. You're quite a nice guy for being such a cheeky bastard.
Cheers.
so many avenues but i wouldn't be buying it for ecomomic collapse. How do you think the rich stay rich? When 1% of the population has all the money they devalue the currency. What are the rich doing they have been buying gold for the last decade. They know whats going on. The government doesn't want gold competing with the stock market. You will see at a certain level whatever that level is gold will be marked up from the current $44.00 dollar an ounce to 2000 or 3000 or 5000. Suddenly the treasury is solvent. Then the rich put their money back to work whether its real estate for income or back into the stock market. Back into dollars. Middle level players are buying now and when it becomes mainstream you look for other opportunities. But the kicker is if we lose the reserve currency the dollar is the new peso and the government can restart a new currency whenever it runs into trouble. Get in know if your ever going to its almost a no lose whatever way it turns out. At 5000 do you really want to be going to the bank to exchange dollars for gold. The sheeple buy at 5000 the rich already have their gold waiting on more opportunites in a few years when we bottom.
I have a request.
I see everyone speaking of a collapse. I see the guns and Gold and be prepared posts.
But what I am not seeing is anyones vision of just what happens after the collapse. It's like all the planing ends there. Like the world ends and everyone is frozen in time with their Gold and guns.
Please one of you rational creative types start a topic about post crash prophecy. We looking at Mad Max, or Dark Angel or Paris Commune.
I know y'all are much smarter than I am. Please enlighten me.
Thank You
We currently live in a multi-facited world and will do so in the future. I've never believed in a one-size-fits-all approach, but in this case I'm basically siding with the bulk of humanity that doesn't have much stake in fiat currency, and, I'm not seeing this as getting better.
So... depends on what situation you end up in. Will you or won't you be a tool of the oligarchy? How many Praetorian Guards will there need to be? If you're not one of them then you'll be one of the rest of the world (like exists now): read "we're all living above the levels that would otherwise normally exist- I mean, really, we're all sitting here NOT producing, what's the future there?
And just as there are different physical points, there are also different points in time. Nothing will be the same in differing places OR differing times.
I think what we are planning for is the Argentina - style collapse. When essentials were hard to come by and barter was more common than transactions with currency. At least I am.
It will take a few months for a barter economy to self-organize and goods to start flowing, at a greatly reduced rate than we are used to. Even longer for new regional currencies to become established. Crime will become rampant, as the strong steal essentials from the weak.
Of course, there is a 50/50 chance things will work out fine. They will work until they don't, then fall off a cliff.
A simple solution is to have a currency backed by something other than promises. That is why people like PMs because they are the tried and true method of tangible value in currency and trade. So, if everything gets set to 0 then you start over with silver and gold and copper.
Credit will exist again of course because it always does in the form of respect and trust. The moment that trust is broken, in a working system, then the dishonest are expelled from the system and the system continues on stronger without the weak link. Unfortunately the current system is not based in honesty, respect and integrity.
What is happening now is just a much needed reminder of what happens when trust and honesty are removed from the system. Nobody can stop the correction once the lies are too big to manage.
I am not a smart person...just smart enough to know when I'm being had and when a government, bank and corporation tell you "things are getting better" through their corporate message delivery monstrosities...well you'd better figure out how to get to the exit when the panic sets in.
"The center of the earth is wherever you are." -Black Elk
Friends, it's a waste of energy arguing with Leo and others about the value of gold... it is so fucking obvious to anyone knowing history and
who understands the current systemic meltdown we are in. If they aint got it by now,
they will only get it late or never. Really, this country is full of intellectually lazy and intellectually dishonest, like my brother in-law
who wont read anything that counters his views.
Wait till the govt appropriates his 401k, or the fund manager of his money market freezes withdrawals.
w
Lawarence1, what is your Gold endgame? Eventually you plan to sell it. Or do you hang onto it until your last breath?
I understand you plan to use it as a hedge against economic collapse. What happens after the collapse? You start trading your Gold eventually someone will notice.
But what if there is no collapse? What if things just limp along. Will you be trading that Gold for paper currency to buy things?
I've heard that most criminals get caught because they plan up to the crime, but are baffled on how to proceed after that point.
Where do you envision your Gold owning finally ending?
Thank You
Thanks lawrence, umm, George Soros. Or wait, is it John Paulson? Damn me, I am an intellectualy lazy person who never read a book!
Leo, I have two questions.
First if people assume that the stock market is being manipulated why do they think Gold is not?
Second you mentioned Medical investment. Is that Bioinformatics, Medical Informatics and Proteomics?
Also I'm confused on why land is bad but Gold is good. One of the arguments is land may be seized, but Gold has been also. If I buy forty acres I can rent it out to farmers, or rent lots to organic farmers or grow my own food. If I understand correctly investments like land, precious items ( gold metals diamonds wine classic cars) and art will always retain some value.
Thank You
Gully,
You can assume all markets are manipulated. Trillions of dollars flowing into various assets from mutual funds, pension funds, hedge funds, sovereign wealth funds, endowment funds and insurance funds. The key here is that shares represent claims on earnings over the long run, but in the short run, speculative flows rule.
Farmland is a valuable commodity and a productive one at that. I can see the US mid-West booming in the coming decade while financial sectors like New York muddle through a protracted secular decline. The boom of the last ten years was based on bogus structured derivatives. Those fat margins have evaporated and are not coming back anytime soon.
50 years from now, paraphrasing Chuck Heston:
"Biofuel is People!"
That's 'alternative energy' for you, Leo.
Fiat currencies will remain floating an a means of exchange as long as the illuminated ones decide it will. Gold & Silver (Au, Ag) has always been the currency of the original 13 families, and will always be the only true currency because thats the way they want it for secret reasons that are unknow to the sheep. There is no free market economy, its always been an illusion. All of you are partaking in make believe , Harry Potter style. If your prepared, for an eventual systematic crash of this freak show and the eventual change, that are preparing to implement than you want fall as hard, as someone who is not prepared ie ( judo ).
I agree that the 13 crazy assed men at the top of the pyramid deal in gold; they do not even touch paper money.
However, it can be explained better than that, as conspiracy (or rather, TRUTH, for you and I) is only useful to drive the point home.
Banks hold gold and make it their first loan of recourse; their proprietary loan. Banks need gold to be banks. Therefore the ponzi fractional reserve lending scheme REVOLVES around gold. Gold is money from day one, literally.
The Fed set up the Swap Lines how? By selling gold. Same with the ECB. Who was the buyer? The IMF. Then the IMF sells gold to Sprott...er, wait, no, he doesn't have the credentials. Learn the handshake Sprott!
It is one big circle of FIAT based on gold. On the side, the 13 crazies make bets with silver. Barclays ishares silver trust....Rothschildes...etc.
I also heard Irv Schiff looked pretty in a dress. But who knows........
You are just jealous. Don't be jealous.
America Freedom to Fascism:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5355374476580235299#
Im not a big fan of Schiff, he is just another ranting power monger.
But he is almost always right. Something to think about when knocking him.
He is a 33rd degree mason.
He is a 33rd degree? Are you sure he isn't 66th? Did Irv Schiff spend time in prison? I think so, and Masons, Illuminists, etc, NEVER GO TO PRISON.
I doubt Schiff is a mason, as how could he be bought by the guys that imprisoned his father, but who knows; Paul and Grayson could be Masons too. Who knows..................
LOL
Masons - oooOOoooh. Yeah, going to prison is a pretty clear sign they aren't part of the inner circle.
"What scares me is this whole ETF scenario....monetizing of paper and PRETEND its GOLD!" His point is that it pushes the price of gold up, yet I think paper gold weighs down the price of gold. Think about this; what if people thought they had invested in gold (ETF ownership) but failed to realize that they would never be paid IN GOLD. This would send the price of gold soaring as all the ETF owners sold paper and rushed to bullion. This is paper gold and bullion decoupling. Give it a year, it will happen.
Note; I am a little disappointed you cut out Amanda (mI6) Drury. She seems intent on bringing the world to its kness.
"I submit, Isis."
Governments will be forced to either:
i. Sell their gold to pay off debts
ii. Print money to pay off their debts
Only 1 of the stated can occur.
Governments will be forced to either:
i. Sell their gold to pay off debts
ii. Print money to pay off their debts
Only 1 of the stated can occur.
Well said.
I wonder which one they'll choose?
who throws all these figures around about 99% tax on gold /
dont get it because
the clueless make every attempt to paint gold as a plague ,
china all its citizen are buying gold ,, India ,, russia
if you clowns think the the usa will do this,, watch the flight in to gold .
the usa will be buying gold at 1650 and higher ,
as will all nations ,
better get some to protect your self from the tyranny of broke-ness .
and the misguided council of some who google over nude women lol
its a poster board lol
not the church in the wild wood
To all,
why berate other posters all of these comments are what makes a market if you are long gold why try to convince the short to reverse his trade - are you that much of a nice guy/gal?!?!? if thats the case then just share your spoils.
Same goes for the shorts.
Debate is healthy but when you start comment with your an idiot or your stoopid ... it really brings down the value of your comments.
take the personal attacks out and provide some meat to your argument.
an otherwise great site is becoming a little bit of a school yard bullying match. if i want CRAP i'll watch idol or dancing with the stars.
lets grow up a little.
as for the contributors CB/LEO/REGGIE et al. keep it coming I may not agree with all of your comments, but I am willing to listen to all sides.
Actually a lot of the veteran posters don't get down into the mud to wrestle with the paperpigs anymore because it takes a lot of time to type the same truth over and over again to the trolls. If the trolls takeover, so what - they're easy to spot after you've been here a while. Buy precious metals and get ready for a major crash - the comment section is window dressing - ZH articles demonstrate quite clearly without the help of commentors - if you can't figure it out by now there isn't much else that can be done. This is like arguing how a horror movie ends.
Plus, this place if for those with thick skin. Some of these, eh, posters that need "help" and understanding, either need to be torn a new one or are paid to post here, a la Cass Sunstein (cognitive infiltration).
"are paid to post here, a la Cass Sunstein (cognitive infiltration)." divide & conquer baby
Leo good
A small % of my assets are held in physical gold. But the problem is that you can't settle trillions of transactions in gold, just cash or credit. Over the past 30 years, debt levels have grown 3 times faster than GDP and every year more debt is needed to generate a $ GDP. If currencies were backed by gold then gold prices would be maybe be $10k or $20k/oz. and the individuals owning the gold would make a fortune. Govt would then be forced to confisicate or place a 99% windfall profits tax on gold holdings to keep people that don't own gold from rioting. Also There would continue to be an ever increasing level of credit needed to keep the world's economies growing so gold prices would go to even higher levels. Fiat currencies backed by gold doesn't solve the problem. Furthermore, there would be more armed conflicts and wars to fight over who controls the gold in addtion to who owns the oil. Something we dont' need.
I hear the Pentagon is hiring for a new think-tank. YOU could save us from the rioting!
Gold, bad. Makes people angry.
yes gold would go way up.. and those who were wise enough to accumulate gold are going to be happy ... but explain why it then has to be taxed 99%
show us where in any language you can find that this will be the case
you have made a number out of whole cloth
"Govt would then be forced to confisicate or place a 99% windfall profits tax on gold holdings"
Govt won't take my gold. Govt can't tax gold. That's why gold is god.
If I trade my bullion with a neighbor, who cares about the goverment taxing it when they had no idea it happened? That trade was NOT subject to capital gains...biotch.
physical or die
Greetings all, sorry to change the mood but it is such a delightfull eve. May i share the words of a canadian minstral in a poem. When you wake up to the promise of your dreamworld coming true, with one less friend to call on was it someone that i knew? Away we will go sailing in a race among the ruins, if you plan to face tomorrow do it "soon"!