This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Rick Santelli tells the truth about GLD and SLV on CNBC [Video]
Something that is known to ZH readership since day one, is now finally said openly on the most watched [probably] business channel in the world.
And just for the sake of it, lets thrown in Peter Schiff and his take on the real price of gold.
Things look grim for the FIAT, even more so with all the recent articles assessing gold as, not a substitute for current form of currency, but THE preferred form of currency. Gold is finally getting the attention it should have been given to long, long time ago.
»
- advertisements -
Rando you reminded me of this Tull Classic
"Skating Away On The Thin Ice Of The New Day"
Meanwhile back in the year One --- when you belonged to no-one ---
you didn't stand a chance son, if your pants were undone.
`Cause you were bred for humanity and sold to society ---
one day you'll wake up in the Present Day ---
a million generations removed from expectations
of being who you really want to be.
Skating away ---
skating away ---
skating away on the thin ice of the New Day.
So as you push off from the shore,
won't you turn your head once more --- and make your peace with everyone?
For those who choose to stay,
will live just one more day ---
to do the things they should have done.
And as you cross the wilderness, spinning in your emptiness:
you feel you have to pray.
Looking for a sign
that the Universal Mind (!) has written you into the Passion Play.
Skating away on the thin ice of the New Day.
And as you cross the circle line, the ice-wall creaks behind ---
you're a rabbit on the run.
And the silver splinters fly in the corner of your eye ---
shining in the setting sun.
Well, do you ever get the feeling that the story's
too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage, and it seems like
you're the only person sitting in the audience?
Skating away on the thin ice of the New Day.
Nice, who is the minstral ?
Well said DavidC
DavidB
Leo, CB,
Only just reading through all the comments on this posting. Please, keep them coming!
I've said this to Leo before, and to Harry Wanger, I may not agree with everything that's written but if makes me THINK that's a good thing and I appreciate it. A lot of posters have belittled and been quite rude about Mr W, but if ZH becomes a site of like-minded zealots who countenance no dissenting or different viewpoints I, for one, will not continue reading it. Fortunately ZH isn't thus far!
DavidC
Max pain.
ZH articles are like clouds above the plain. We discuss, but the shapes remain the same.
David Lutz from Stifel Nicolaus also recently let slip a similar comment about GLD not really having any physical gold on CNBC.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232/?video=1492076817&play=1
The videos & the opinions expressed in the comments by Leo & others show the great confusion that has been created by the financial media & press. The media lack the knowledge to express critical views & only serve to confuse investors & traders. Would anyone take serious investing advice from the TV "money honeys" reading a teleprompter script? The result is the increasingly wild gyrations we are just beginning to see in the stock & bond markets.
Can both gold & stocks do well? Here's an opinion from someone that was on the inside with the players & big operators, Martin Armstrong:
"This is a DEBT CRISIS and you better start understanding what the hell that truly means. Capital is confused. The market made its crash [the flash crash] because at first blush capital in domestic hands listens to the nonsense spun by the shills for the government. This is a INTERNATIONAL DEBT CRISIS and that means we are facing a crisis in international capital that will fly instantly to quality. That is why the dollar and gold will rise, and why YES, the stocks will rise as well!"
(emphasis in original)
Take this quote from Charlie Munger:
"When you mix raisins with turds, you've still got turds"
The only, only reason the dollar is percieved as safe in this enviroment is because of the crisis in Europe. To say that the dollar is strong and healthy is a minomer because the dollar is not strong, it is percieved to be strong relative primarily to the euro and yen. However, the fundamentals underlying the dollar are weaker than they have ever been, at least in my analysis. If one is to compare the value of the dollar vs. gold, or the euro vs. gold, it should be stunningly clear which of the three have stronger fundamentals, going back at least 15 years. If you want to juxtapose the action of gold vs. stocks over the same period please feel free to do so. Let us not forget that gold has fairly no industrial utility.
The question should not be "can gold and stocks do well" the question should be "where is my money safe and where can I see not only a return ON my capital but a return OF my capital" I think if you look at the price action the answer should be quite apparent. It should alarm you that once the situation in Europe runs it's course, the next obvious domino is the United States and the dollar.
don't forget the pound & the yen.
"When you mix raisins with turds, you've still got turds"
I was thinking the same thing...
CNBC Panel: 4 Numb-Nuts and a Michelle Malkin Lookin' Bimbo "Anchor-ette"
Schiff is subjected to the band of idiots. First Upper right dick-fuck:
Numb-Nuts #1: "The USD has rallied sharply..."
Then, Bobby Brady lookin' penis brain Upper Left:
Numb-Nuts #2: "Yeah but what if the economy grows faster..."
I was think ugly dogs instead of raisins n' turds...
Currencies are like an ugly dog contest... the winner is still a double butt ugly dog.
And where does CNBC get this never ending supply of idiot used car salesmen Brady Bunch lookin' MoFo's to fill the moron squares with?
Back to you Michelle Malkin Lookin' Bimbo "Anchor-ette"...
Well put. Multiple LOLs.
bob_dabolina, I agree with you that the dollar is perceived as safe in this environment because of the Euro crisis. It is in essence, for now, the most attractive turd in the fiat turd box. We know that compared to the price of gold, stocks have not faired well. Nor in terms of inflation adjusted returns. Stocks are for renting, not long term buy & hold.
We are in just the first stage of the debt crisis; when we get to stage two, the US will come under the microscope & capital flows will find new niches of perceived quality. Our task is to surf the waves of the debt collapse staying ahead of each wave before it crests over like a parabola. The US is having its moment in the sun for now, but it will fade over time. The Greek crisis is prologue to our own.
"Go West young man, go West...."
Horace Greely
If 10% unemployment and a 12.3% deficit is America's moment in the sun...
You can call me Mr. Bob Dobolina.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPOgntWfiE
BS is Bob Dabolina and I am hip to his cronies.
When? "Soon?"
Also, what do you think will happen when gold mean reverts?
Discuss.
Reversion to the mean is a concept only applicable under a given economic and financial paradigm. That paradigm is changing, and so inevitably will the mean going forward.
Or are the stocks of the formerly booming buggy manufacturers of the late 19th century going to revert to their former mean someday soon too?
gold become a permanent fixture in international commerce
what does it mean to revert to mean lol
maybe the mean is closer to 5 000 bucks
bravo for some one who knows squat about gold and all the informtion from people like sinclair
your 29 years of watching the what you think is normal gold then may become a new reality'
i thing you said a couple of months ago gold would not break above 1230 or you would eat a hat..
sprinkle a little crow on it it taste even bette r
whats the bet it will notgo to 1650 on thsi leg over the next coming months
lets get your opinion in writing so the second hat will not be so far away
It is reverting.
I think if any currency was backed by gold it would be the hands down strongest currency on planet Earth.
I think a more realistic and efficient means for the dollar, would be a dollar backed by a basket of commodities but dominantly gold.
Any thoughts on this?
The issue with that is that it handcuffs politicians ability to inflate away debts. I am all for it, but that is the "problem"
Ckeeky Is Like the Weekend Anchor Desk...
I like it.
I see CB has a couple of excellent posts...
Monday... and now back to Tyler...
Lil' cheeky ass kissing. Clever. I like it, I like it.
Kiss, kiss, Sir Cheeky.
One problem is that the gold market is nowhere close the FX market in terms of liquidity.
That however may eventually be resolved. In a market-driven fashion. With gold at $100,000/oz, and 1 x Au atom as delivery unit.
Growing economy? My little town will lose 300 jobs and the company is moving away for good June 1st. I do insurance inspections, Allstate will cancel a policy for one broken roof shingle. Relentless depression is what I see traveling 5-7 hundred miles a week.
So gold bulls ... what do you think happens to gold when they finally default (or restructure) Greece? When they start destroying some of the money there won't be a bid for gold. Fine, buy some for insurance, but it should be a small % of your wealth, and remember that with most insurance contracts you generally don't get paid out on them/claim!
Actually, I can't believe somebody junked you!
You post is simply a slight variation of what Cheeky pointed out above. Maybe the insurance = hedge was a bit much.
I suppose there are fanatics everywhere.
I believe in the ol' gambling adage, 'you got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em'.
This is an era it certainly isn't an event.
You're nuts if you think they are going to be able to neutralize a trillion dollars worth of debt.
I think more and more people are taking the "Red Pill". The other illusion is how far the economy will fall. Depending on the scenario, Gold could become the new proxy of exchange or it could be just as useless as the paper currency it is attempting to replace. If we go back to a barter economy, then it will be goods and services that are traded in transactional exchanges. Gold or paper currency is only as valuable as those willing to accept it in lieu of a trade. If you want to buy a stick of butter from me I might not be willing to accept the amount of Gold you are offering, or I might want to barter for another “exchange currency”. If the world devolves into chaos, then we could be looking at a lifestyle like the typical Afghani – were we meet at a bazar and trade good and services.
I need to go back and refresh my weaving skills.
on the comment regarding the growing economy....how is it that April tax receipt fell nationally, in California, and Illinois (just the ones I read about) and incomes are growing? Was there a tax cut I missed? Or are incomes (aka jobs) still shrinking? The recovery is as fictional as low inflation was when housing prices were rising 10x in twenty years. Stocks? Tech will get destroyed if growth contracts from here. Who gives a rip about efficiency when human labor is near free (un or underemployed). These are some messed up times, brought up by brainiacs that can write 3 chalkboards full of calculus for economics, but can't see simple math for balancing a budget.
Because April tax receipts reflect the taxes payed in the entire preceding year, while incomes growing is only a snapshot of this month versus last month, or this year versus last year.
In other words, people may not have been paying taxes a year ago, but they might be getting a job or raise right now. That is how both scenarios can exist.
most tax receipts are payroll, no?
futa is .8 of payroll up to 8000 grand a year
suta is 13.4 of payroll to 70,000 or so a year
income tax contributions are 15% of payroll or more
most business must remit with in three days ,, some even every day.
so it is a large number
gold is an insurance policy, like a heathcare insurance policy, or hurrican insurance in new orleans, or a credit default swap?
without physical possession is your insurance policy up to date?
what if the government confiscates gold (fool me twice)
is a house of gold cards better than paper cards?
read 353550 below. Cheeky Bastard has the market down pat. We are at a point where you can make money by jumping on any emotional bandwagon, right now the bandwagon is gold. Its a useless as all the others, but for as long as it lasts, you will make lots of fiat money (that is confetti, not worth the paper it is written on). Gold may be a store of value right now, money certainly isn't, it's paper. The moral hazard created by central banks/western goverments is either the path to Zimbabwe (hyper inflation) or Japan (permanent stagnation).
Imagine a country that used the same arguments as are being used by our so-called leaders (who by the way have received no mandate in any democratic process to pursue the policies they are pursuing). Imagine little old New Zealand with 4 million people saying ok I will print the entire annual GDP of the economy and give it to the Government to spend on buying up all the failed companies in the economy. Now take 75 New Zealand's and you have the problem faced by each of Europe and the US. (With around 40 New Zealands for Japan).
The behavior of Governments is appalling. BUT the solution starts when the problem is broken down to reality. Break it up into bite sizes pieces, then roll it out.
"money is the poor man's credit card.." MM
To take that another step, do you suppose credit will disappear completely? Gold is the poor man's money? I only see a deflationary whirl, and sea shells may be the poor man's gold.
I do believe in gold stocks, as they represent assets in the ground (like oil in the ground) and they will be counted against a new currency. But not at these prices.
Sure, they may be very profitable investments, but my money isn't going to go in any industry or investment that adds nothing to society.
A store of value is not necesasary for economic calculation? Good to know.
A piece of printed paper adds something to society?
Forget gold or silver.
Go for Platina and Palladium, but only the paper versions remain, because they are both already sold out EVERYWHERE. Just even try to get some physical, you'll see.
Yes, by all means let's dive into a hyperinflationary depression by buying industrial metals while forgoing monetary metals. I'm sure that'll work out just fine! After all, one of the major consumers of the PGMs is the automobile industry, and demand for vehicles is driving oil prices.....wait, oil's going down?
Just ordered some for my chemistry lab in the form of Pt and Pd salts from Johnson-Matthey so I don't think they are unavailable. But the prices have been going up for years. I would add Rh, Rhodium as an excellent element to stockpile. In a way the Pt and Pd salts I still have on my shelves turned out to be an excellent investment though I convert them into research catalysts over time (and they then are even more valuable in this form).
?
a) not much use investing in essentially non-deliverable commodity futures, especially (hm) as an armageddon hedge.
b) both have a well-documented history of extreme price volatility and producer-induced supply manipulation.
c) physical palladium (less so platinum) is simply too rare to be a reliable and liquid PRIVATE investment.
What is good for Chinese SWF's is not necessarily good for you.
agreed! good post...wheres the thumbs up!
There are no perfect systems of money. Its perfection would be a bond on your energy or work, exchanged. But that would get into whether your performance over time would be more or less valuable.
To say that a fiat fractional reserve current-sea is money is completely and utterly foolish. To give a governing body, owned by banks, the power to steal from you and call that a monetary unit you would rather have is "cog dis" at its mind numbing and breathtaking best.
I believe this is Leo's position in the above. Leo indicates that he would rather have "Money" OR "Paper Assets" than "Gold," a limited supply universally valued item. While Gold is not perfect money and can be manipulated, etc, it is not Dollars.
In the History of Monetary Hilarity, this con has been pulled an infinite number of times and it is truly amazing to me to see it being defended here.
LeBalance, well put.
Agree with you, unfortunately, gold is pretty useless as money or collateral. There isnt enough of it. Never have been and never will be. It is pretty, has scarcity value and some industrial uses, that's it.
Being a gold bug is good right now, because there isn't much else you can do to express a view on the bullshit that passes for government leadership and monetary value right now.
As soon as a better alternative presents itself, then gold will revert. If an alternative doesn't present itself then it will stay scarce. As an alternative, there is as much validity in an invention that converts human faeces into energy for the home or the car as there is for an inert pretty colored metal. (Ten shit converters making 90 kw a day is a damn sight more valuable than gold to everyone, not just a few gold bugs, when everyones faith in money is detroyed). :)
Agree with you, unfortunately, gold is pretty useless as money or collateral. There isnt enough of it.
Read that closely. Something that is rare(r) is not worth that much, that having more of it makes it worth more. I've always thought, or been led to believe (perhaps erroneously) that the more scarce something the more that it is (potentially) worth more: if all art were Picasos and there were millions of them, would an individual one really be worth that much.
As an alternative, there is as much validity in an invention that converts human faeces into energy for the home or the car as there is for an inert pretty colored metal.
Just saying so doesn't make it so. I agree that energy is important, but bring up cars basically is signing on to our dying paradigm: shit/energy doesn't create asphalt or concrete roads. Home use is a bit closer, but it's not until one gets to use for cooking that the real importance comes into play (many people use cow dung- cows generate more "input" than humans), namely for food. The value in shit lies more in mineral reclaimation (compost) than in energy: how much energy are you going to use in creating the facility for creating energy?).
hooligan
" unfortunately, gold is pretty useless as money or collateral. There isnt enough of it. Never have been and never will be. It is pretty, has scarcity value and some industrial uses, that's it."
this analysis is third grade uselessness ,
gold is not used as money to be circulated it is to back the notes being circulated
and the price of gold will riase so tht the amount of gold to do this is enough and more ,
why is it that these truths do not perculate threw the brains of the little leagure in the warmup circle of spit
History shows that gold, silver and other durable precious metals have been used as a medium of exchange since prehistory. No fiat currency without metallic backing has lasted more than a few decades. The temptation of governments to debase the currency is too strong, and will eventually destroy the dollar and euro as it did the Zimbabwean dollar and deutschmark in their time, along with innumerable others.
I understand what you are saying, but the phrase "History shows that gold, silver and other durable precious metals have been used as a medium of exchange since prehistory" just...well...it just ain't right sounding.
Hmm, I was thinking about the impact across the whole of society, not just those who were active in the metal. Interesting. Didnt revolution in politics (national socialism) emerge as a solution to the depression in Germany and the revolution was really all about creating work, refusing to pay reparations (i.e. debt in todays terms) and ending with some very nasty side-effects?