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Rick Santelli tells the truth about GLD and SLV on CNBC [Video]
Something that is known to ZH readership since day one, is now finally said openly on the most watched [probably] business channel in the world.
And just for the sake of it, lets thrown in Peter Schiff and his take on the real price of gold.
Things look grim for the FIAT, even more so with all the recent articles assessing gold as, not a substitute for current form of currency, but THE preferred form of currency. Gold is finally getting the attention it should have been given to long, long time ago.
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I used to believe national socialisms origins were as you suggested until I read Hayek's "the road to serfdom", where he correctly points out that German collectivists central planners had been laying the intellectual groundwork for national socialism since the time of Bismark. The problem is the idea that "experts" should plan the economy. Then they "discover" the only means to this end is coercive (i.e. the destruction of individual freedom). This is the only important thing to remember. To central planners, just as for Lenin, the end justifies the means. They can act "nice" about it like Obama, but in the end it always ends in some sort of mandate. Liberatarians believe the means determine the end just as absolute power corrupts absolutely.
posted at WSB
Why gold could crash next week...
RobotTrader - Sat, May 15, 2010 - 12:31 PM
Frank Barbera ultra bearish, sees "heavy liquidation" in gold stocks
RobotTrader - Sat, May 15, 2010 - 12:21 PM
Has Frank Barbera ever been anything BUT bearish on gold?
The only time I see his name pop up is in yet another of his Nadleresque gold-bearish articles, despite having been little more accurate in his gold price calls than Nadler himself.
Leo Kolivakis said: "On China "cutting off the US": Do you know of any sane man who cuts off his testicles?"
This reminds me of a discussion I had regarding punishment for child molesters. An individual proposed taking the child molester and nailing their testicles to the floor and laying a dull serrated knife next to them and then start the house on fire. The punishment is determined by the perpetrator. Applying this thought process to China, they appear to be in the same situation, therefore they can cut off their testicles or die in the fire. Which would be more prudent for China to do?
"Do you know of any sane man who cuts off his testicles?"
Yes. Look-ee Here Billy Joe Bob...
The Dee-troit crotch bomber set his balls on fire. I say that is the same as a cut-off.
Was He Sane?
Okay... nobody sane willingly flies into Dee-troit. You have a point there...
Very true. and who said that China is sane?
It may come as a shock to us in the West, but China could simply fund twenty years of spending on its infrastructure, education and other living standards just based on the western debt it has accumulated. Political revolution in China would do this quickly, the current regime could come to this conclusion and adopt it slowly. China owns much of the US and Europe and pretty soon will own all of it. Reality bites hey?
China could simply fund twenty years of spending on its infrastructure, education and other living standards just based on the western debt it has accumulated
Are you pulling this out of your, you know, rear end?
At the current rate of growth China will be doubling its activities in a mere 10 years. Your statement is one-dimensional (fails to include any growth rate). Further, western debt is either going to be wiped out via inflation, meaning that that debt is worth next to nothing (good luck paying for actual resources, like oil, with worthless paper), or outright default, meaning China won't even have as much as electronic bits.
Except, Hooligan...
Remember in the 1980's when Japan owned a lot of the US too?
Then what happened? Japan's bubble was found to be fraudulent, and they quickly were plunged into recession/stagflation/depression/whatever you want to call it.
The same thing can happen to China as well. With all their manipulation, I wouldn't be surprised if they are in the same boat as 1987 Japan.
Japan is the perfect example and the U.S. in this case is Japan, except there are 100 other Japans too and they are all interlinked.
A horse race sponsored by the glue factory.
very true...situation was alittle different tho. Japan had built out its economy and had surplus yen sourced domestically, hence themassive shift oversea. China hasn't built out and has its money stored in liquids like trasuries and illiquids like the countrie it owns in the caribbean, south america and africa. seems logical to me that it will convert to being a consumer of the capital it has invested (via income or drawdown) startign very shortly when things go pop domestically. ( I guess i believe the stories that China has plans to give every Chinese citizen a 5 metre by 5 metre by 5 metre living space.
And I read an article last week that Jong Ill went to china by train and spent some time there with the brass..I dont know and probably nothing at all but somehting that just struck me as being odd in the timing of what all has been going on in the last month or so..
China wants to know who is succeeding the insane midget. Perhaps that is the next Black Swan. Although it could have already happened:
Gulf Oil Leaks Could Gush for Years "We don't have any idea how to stop this," expert says.http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/100513-science-environme...
Hi Cheeky,
Do you agree with M.Armstrong's views for gold?
He argued the following points:
- MONEY is not gold
- GOLD is the free hedge against the mismanagement of the state ; it is not a hedge against inflation
-It is a hedge against gov and its policies
-If it is gold that is money, then it rises with deflation and falls with inflation. When gold is a free market, then it will decline with deflation and rise with inflation
Thanks
Sheeple,
Please watch the documentary The Money Masters by Bill Still. It is freely available on google/video.
Hi Goods,
Thanks for the recommendation
currency mimicks politics
gold opposes both.
the treatment of gold in the 20th century influenced the view Armstrong shares. And he is right.
Basically gold is a universal hedge against any kind of politics and against any and all FIAT currencies.
So true. Its power and value is manifest when trust, the basis of society, fails along with its currency. And thus a hedge well worth owning. Trying to price it in fiat currency says as much about the currency as the gold.
Or as I like to view it: if you could purchase using your present day dollars all the food, fuel, shelter and medicine/health care you will need for the rest of your life and just store it would you do it? I might.
Great! Another fiat controlled by 24 guys and they are going to determine what's good for everyone!!!!!
If we are going to introduce SDR as the "new world currency", how do you see our current currency system dismantle? You see, how would they "trigger" this introduction?
currency parity [it will take 2-5 years] which will then trigger deterioration in the values of collateral[assets] pledged and trigger a few Lehman-esque events which will help push things further on the political part if the isle. Its really simple. Collateral value deterioration takes care of all other technicalities and makes outstanding Interest Rate Swaps [70% of the notional value of all derivatives outstanding] contractually terminated once there is unified monetary field. Most of the problems solved monetary, risk, and currency wise . The next problem to cope with will be new energy sources [forget sun, wind and water in their current technological form]. My take is; fusion which is well known even now, although no one in the mainstream even thinks of discussing it due to significance of oil. Fun times ahead; try to enjoy them.
You find zero-point and no more worries! However, I do not believe we have fusion. If we do it is in a space lab and the Rockefeller Institute will use it to go to Mars and mine minerals there and never tell you!
I was a fan of fussion until I realized that it won't solve our problems of growth, that it would only add to it. Energy is just the power to consume, not make (that's what the sun is for- making, growing).
Zero-point is a lot like abiotic oil, something that exists, but is basically a thing of mental masterbation. We're completely surrounded by it, it is a balancing thing, alter it and then figure out what happens. I liken it to operating a big fan on a sailboat... a sense of pushing on nothing.
We're rapidly expanding bacteria in a petri dish.
Hey CB, if you have not done so already, check out Hyperion Power Generation. Makes sense to me which is why they probably won't adopt it.
what's a unified monetary field? where everything is worth nothing (i skipped into unifying physics theory then for a while, like infinite and infinitessimal).
Bond vigilantes!! You bet ...
omg good point ... always good to read your post thank you.
Leo you are ahead on the curve, but in Peter's defense
Point one, Rhetorical, not factual. Press Peter and he will confess, that yes it is growing, little and not enough. He was on CNBC, rhetoric is the name of the game.
Point two, deflation has set in. It is negatively effecting the price of the Euro because, well sovereign default risk does that to any currency other than the dollar.
Point three, Have they not already done so? Political decisions are not sane and can therefore result in...uh move to point four
Point four, of course you are right and when calm is restored I am with you, but after Europe, there is Japan and after Japan the US and after the US maybe Europe again.
I think the danger to the increase in the gold price is the austerity politician getting elected.
Even then getting elected is one thing, getting legislation passed is another entirely.
On Gold to the moon. When is calm gonna be restored? 2024?
By then we may have a depression and a revolution.
Then who is gonna have better time between now and then?
And calling peole names does not make your argument stronger.
My grandpa survived two currency failures in Europe and his British gold sovereigns coins gave him the advantage.
On the US economy "not growing": Has he looked at the ISM, employment (not just payrolls but household survey), industrial production, and the leading indicators over the last ten months?
Leo, that's unsustainable nominal impact of unsustainable deficits. Not real growth.
You're an idiot and here's why: You're always wrong, yet you keep flapping those gums.
Wow, just wow. The ISM is a survey and not really more than that which is why it is not "the hot item" at the moment since it is not that hot any longer. The leading indicators have long since rolled over, what are you looking at?? It peeked a couple months ago now, but let's not let the facts get in the way of your reality. Deflation is not bad, actually, a shortage of currency is bad which is not an issue. Most people are confused on inflation/deflation and why one is bad the other is good, etc. I contend that deflation is actually pretty good. However, here is not the place to get into it. AS far as China butting off its testicles with the US, are nuts? No pun intended. The EU is China's largest trade partners, not the US and, frankly, the world cannot support the US and China growing at 3 and 10%, respectively, a year. China does not care about losing money on the treasuries it owns. They killed 70M of their own people and they own treasuries as a weapon to hold over our head, don't kid yourself. They do not need us as much as you would like to think. As far as gold being overvalued, yawn, stop it. Open your eyes, deflation has been here for 2 years prices are higher. Central bank demand is here and investor demand is here. Did you know that the Fed and every other CB's mandate is to create about 3% annual inflation a year? That in itself is bullish for metals, period. It is supply and demand, period. Personally, I believe in silver more because of actual facts instead of pure belief or other nonsense you might spout off, I like facts and you are devoid of them in most times. Calm was here in 2006 and gold was up. Calm was here in 2007 and gold was up. Calm was here in 2008 and gold was up. Fear showed up in 2009 gold went down only because of liquidation margin calls, nothing more, and now that fear is back gold is going up. Even under the most superficial argument your BS doesn't hold water. Sorry Leo, I hate being a dick, but I am good at it. If you want to share details of why you are wrong I will be more than happy to trade emails with you.
Excellent post demsco!
And you were in any way not being "a dick" with Leo, merely being brutally honest. In fact, I think you gave him rather more respect than I feel he deserves, but his economic cluelessness and ignorance of monetary theory and history will be his own undoing, and his just rewards.
I look at the PMs and I hear a lot of big bells ringing.
I mean, congratulations, you've been in the asset class of the decade. Believe what you like about the world, but take some profits, get hedged.
The EU are setting Greece up for a default, that's pretty clear. Once you get a default or debt restructuring there won't be a bid for gold for the next hundred or so bucks as people come to grips with the fact that the destruction of money is also possible (and in my view the only solution to this mess).
Schiff is a ranter. All huff and puff. His arguements are weak. It's not a response to say "well it isn't at $2k so just buy it" ...
Leo: 1.Schiff said China will NOT cut off the US, but it might be better if they did.
2.Give us an example of large scale money printing that was not disastrous.
3."Once calm is restored"--when will that be in this crazed money printing operation?
4. Real personal income, exclusive of government handouts, has declined in the last 2 years. Apart from the "G" in GDP, where is this "growth" you claim is happening?
Leo, you are an idiot, and here is why:
In your typical head-in-the-sand cluelessness, Leo, you and your etablishment brethren keep assuming that we are merely in some typical recession, and just riding through the trough of the normal business cycle. What you fail to recognize is that that is NOT the case at all --- we are in the midst of the collapse of the entire monetary and financial paradigm, a phase change if you will, that is fundamentally altering the entire economic, financial and political landscape. Our financial boat is heading for the waterfall, and no amount of rowing is going to drag it back where it was before it became caught in the current taking it to its inevitable destiny.
Please do tell us all, Leo, just how you see "calm" being restored, given the collapsing financial and monetary orders? What part of UNSUSTAINABLE do you not understand?
Once again, Leo, you simply refuse to see the forest for the trees.
In your typical head-in-the-sand cluelessness, Leo, you and your etablishment brethren keep assuming that we are merely in some typical recession, and just riding through the trough of the normal business cycle. What you fail to recognize is that that is NOT the case at all --- we are in the midst of the collapse of the entire monetary and financial paradigm, a phase change if you will, that is fundamentally altering the entire economic, financial and political landscape.
As a college student, the idea that we are in a cyclical, garden-variety recession is espoused everywhere on campus, from clueless diehard Keynesian academics (with the exception of the dean of econ. department who presented a great lecture on US gov fiscal nightmare and nees for immediate, major change) to even more clueless students. Being a skeptic/realist/pessimist has earned me the label of Cassandra yet whenever I ask how and when the economy will a)resume yoy growth b) eclipse the watermark of the last 2 years of contraction and c)maintain growth rates commensurate with debt service needs, I get nothing. The only people on campus I have spoke with who share my ideas are various HF professionals who have visited as guess speakers. As for the students, I have abandoned all hope that my generation will be the ones to fix this mess thanks to their outrageous sense of entitlement, cluelessness on all things monetary/financial/economic, lack of historical context, and general apathy.
No one knows how this will end up but history does not bode well for fiat currency and the current market action suggests this time is no different. The real danger is the insane amount of inflation of paper assets thanks to fractional reserve, manipulated derivatives markets, and other fradulent practices. When SHTF, paper will crash down Exeter's pyramid and the real assets will explode in value; it's not wide-eyed conjecture but common sense. Anybody who knows anything about the wealth preservation habits of the wealthy know they love hard assets above all things, are never without some holdings in PMs, and know all the exits in times of panic and need for liquidity. I for one am trying to take advantage of the volatility in financial markets to earn some extra cash to store in PMs, lead, and a quality lead dispenser or two as insurance.
Do not lose hope. Times of great trouble create great men and women.
Cassandra's curse was not being wrong...was not to be believed...Cassandra was cursed to see her prediction come true and Troy ruin in flamesand was taken as a slave. People who label predictors of doom Cassandra forget this simple fact...Cassandra was bloody right.
excellent point...now do you think Cassandra somehow fulfilled her prophecy by speaking it?
I am a university professor. I weave these materials into my lectures most of the semester. I assign Money as Debt and The Long Emergency to my students. One time I showed the move The Corporation.
I find my students typically know about very little of what is going on and immediately start connecting the material to their lives when they get it. They are rapt and engaged as hell when I steer the lecture in this direction. Honestly think it has helped my teaching evals! Some students are too overwhelmed and don't want to face it. I have probably had 10 drops over the last 4 years because of this. Had one student drop out of our grad program because it did not make sense to him any more after hearing me speak. He went back to the GA woods where he was from and go into forestry. But I have had a few go on and get really involved, one has even done some research on the discourses emerging around the issue and gone on for his doctorate.
I tell you all this because it is the only thing that makes me go back to the ponzi university system that I participate in, having a built in soap box to publicly expound on these issues. I am careful to be respectful if students argue and don't see it my way. I am careful to let all points of view be aired. But that is the thing of it, even getting these issues discussed is vitally important. Plant the seeds. Just because they don't agree does not mean the seed will not germinate, later (it does).
You can do what I do, be it a lecture/discussion session you put on yourself, work the issue into your class presentations when you have an assignment, get involved in student government and raise sustainability issues, write for the newspaper (start with a provocative letter to the editor), you would be surprised the resources that student organizations have available still to fund students going to conferences and presenting, etc.
I'd love to have you around my stomping grounds, but alas, it ain't to be...But you have a lot of power as a student. If you like, you could even use it!
your my hero!
Good post Bay, You can lead a Horse to Water.. I like lead also..I am hitting the dirt hard right now salvaging Alpha Lead..
Yo akaka,
I love you too, and just to show you my appreciation:
.
leo, less is more.
damn, i recognize that tattoo.
my daughter has one like that but she is a red head, green eyes.
plus guys, the carpet matches the drapes†‡
velobabe
a broken down dame ,, trying to satisfy a life in misery /
get some help babe.
the town is littered with the broken minds of those who call for more of this stuff , \
maybe the next date will come calling with a six pax ,, a wallet full of protecting and then your lifeless soul hanging on a bed of desire ,
HEY! NONE OF THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Read her comment above. I've had enough of this biatch.