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Rick Santelli tells the truth about GLD and SLV on CNBC [Video]
Something that is known to ZH readership since day one, is now finally said openly on the most watched [probably] business channel in the world.
And just for the sake of it, lets thrown in Peter Schiff and his take on the real price of gold.
Things look grim for the FIAT, even more so with all the recent articles assessing gold as, not a substitute for current form of currency, but THE preferred form of currency. Gold is finally getting the attention it should have been given to long, long time ago.
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It is such a weak argument. First, if one was understanding of rights, the first thing understood would be that a woman could do whatever she wants with her's, it being her's. Second, drugs are also a personal decision. By making "things" and "actions" illegal, it perpetuates the problem. Hence, our societal problems do not stem from a women being used because she desires such, but that she couldn't do it in the first place and had to do it under th cloak of darkness. Free yourself and free your mind!
Ssshhh! The US is winning the war on drugs, but you don't see it yet. It's a fucking travesty! How many Mexicans got slaughtered in the last five years? And how many US teenagers have to die before the US government admits failure? The Dutch got it right, but puritanical and hypocritical USA will never legalize pot or hand out needles. Nobody wants to offend the dumpsters out there.
.
Leo, I'm scared --- I find myself agreeing with you on the drug issue!
dumpster,
velobabe is a babe. She represents the essence of an intelligent, confident & sexy lady. You on the other hand, represent the essence of an insecure, repressed, ignorant feminazi who thinks she is advancing women's causes when in reality you're doing the exact opposite. Lighten up and grow up! Now, back to my favorite porn site. Where is that SEC link?
leo the sex addict .. surfing for material to add low life posts ,, seems to be an obsession..
do a google and see the hidden undercurrent of these half dazed women .. usually on drugs ,, in sordid conditions ..
the lowest of the low in prostitution , drugs stc.
and you lecture about the value of investing in gold lol
i bet you are tuned in to all the sex sites ,, sort of a hidden amusment
If prostitution and drugs were legal, which they should be, then we would not be having this debate. Government gives us strawman again!
dumpster,
Help me out here honey, is she wearing a gold bikini? I'm losing my eyesight and my moral compass is pointing North ...LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
leo your a disabled jerk . and the in you face nude stuff shows a complete saturation of your mind ,
and it shows each time you utter a sentence. as the complete lack of class and the hustling nature of a dog in heat
dumpster,
I must admit, I'm thinking of purchasing a bit of gold to diversify my portfolio:
But the truth is, I just love green energy:
Leo these ladies are lovely and all but have you snapped?
No, I just had enough of gloom & doomers, and repressed feminazis. They both share the same character flaws, chief among them is that they're hopelessly insecure creatures.
I wouldn't necessarily characterize everyone as being doom and gloom. I would characterize it as a critical assessment of our current situation. You have to admit debt levels around the world are rising to alarming levels and the recent 1 trillion dollar bail out of Europe is the latest example.
Money that would otherwise go towards productive capacity must now be funnelled to interest payments. Not to mention the austerity measures many countries will have to implement to reduce their profligate spending ways.
They are simply putting off until tomorrow what they should probably be dealing with today all the while hoping that tomorrow never comes.
It figures Leo would like women as fake as the currency he swears by.
About time.
I'll take Milani over Santelli any time!
I'll take VeloBabe over all of the above.
She's a hoot!
And she floats! :-)
Beauty, once understood and thus desired, never ends.
I can only take so much Santelli....he usually wears thin after a libor spread.
DUMP
i got some Marla on me tonight.
FUCK OFF†
ok leo, your in dumpster's face, leo the lion. roarrrrrr†
go for it babe, you got the POWER, you can submit, jpegs.
god bless america + leo + canada + greece
...............jpeg POWER, no LEO POWER.
Urban Dictionary: schwing
velobabe,
That avatar is such a tease. Can we have the blowup version? LOL!
i'll think about it, since your my jpeg man†
I dunno. It's not all bad. For some it's just an easy paycheck. Hardcore porn people are a bit weird, but nudes are a very easy job.
is that his wife? how did you get that picture! can i have some more :>)
Shay! My favorite!
JB your hip hurraying a porn site
a 29 year old with out a clue about the sordid underbelly of the pornographic crowd
it escapes me how adults still drool over the sickness of society .
i expect if you ever raise a family ,, that one of your daughters could be meat for the trade ,
sickness is found not only in the SEC but also from various posters who wink at the suffering of the prostitution world .
take these pictures to teir logical conclusion ,, and the tears of the human race silently washes out to the mans inhumainty to man /
What she's a porn actress? Where, which movie? Quick, I'm all alone on a Saturday night and the Palm sisters are restless! Here is another one who represents the "sickness of our society":
I love these pictures Leo, thank you, and keep them coming once in a while. They take the edge off all the doom and gloom.
Enough gloom & doom and more VAVAVAVOOM! I think these two are long solars:
Thanks for the photos, Leo, but you already know that they are wasted on me.
My heart belongs to Johnny B.
My heart goes out to Johnny B.
....and Clorox.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PR_rzF8ofw
It doesn't get old!
LOL!!! Indeed it doesn't my friend.
Sigh, akak... do you always have to make your arguments by insulting people?
Instead of saying "you are an idiot, and here's why" maybe you could say "I disagree with your logic, and here's why"
Just my two cents...
IF you had read Leo's post to which I was responding, I merely repeated the format of his, in which he started by stating "Peter Schiff is an idiot, and here's why ..."
And again, let me ask you Johnny, why do you swarm every thread, and ONLY those threads, in which the subject of gold and monetary collapse are being discussed?
Who the hell would even want to go back just so we could go thru this again. Must I quote Georges Santayana?
Leo I agree with you about Schiff; he has become nothing more than an egotistical blow-hard.
On the other hand the "growth" you are talking about is illusory and you know it. Based on nothing more than deficit spending. The private sector is no longer taking on new debt so the US government has stepped in. Growth based on debt is unsustainable. The deflation we are noticing right now is nothing more than the debt end game blowing up. And unless the central banks let these malinvestments fail, the paper money which is used to play this game will implode. The reason why we had the great depression of the 20s and 30s was partly because the gold standard set a natural limit to how far the credit game could be played. So in some respects Keynesians are correct in blaming the gold standard for causing the depression.
Your belief in the hand holding relationship between China and the US is a false induction belief; It has worked in the past so it should work for ever in the future. Why should China play along if the US consumers start revolting against crappy Chinese goods. And if rumours are to be believed, Russia almost convinced China to start dumping US government and corporate bonds as an act of economic war.
And you are correct, gold does poorly in times of economic stability. But you make a HUGE assumption by saying, "but once calm is restored." Based on what policy action do you state that? Based on whose leadership do you state that? What makes you believe this is what the wizard behind the curtain wants? From you previous comment history, you saw that the housing bubble was unsustainable... what makes you believe the present economic structure is?
+ 1. Sorry Leo, Goods has it nailed spot on. Bogus stats, and no leadership in Europe or America. The game of bailouts to kick the can down the road will come screaching to a halt sometime soon.
To Comrade: It's a bit of a stretch to claim that all statistics on the US economy are fraudulent. At the very least, the trend is showing that the economy has shifted to growth mode.
To Goods: I agree that the private sector has to take over. Corporations are flush with cash. In fact, they have record cash levels. This will bolster US investment, driving growth in the future, even after the stimulus wears off. But it won't be enough. We need US consumers with good jobs to support consumption.
There is no more China and America, it's Chimerica. Fortune 500 companies are deeply embedded in China. And China still needs the US consumer to grow their middle class.
As for gold, calm will be restored when the trillion dollars starts being felt in the financial system. Once banks start lending to each other, credit will flow again to the real economy. It's a matter of confidence now, but risk premiums are way out of whack with the fundamentals.
At the very least, the trend is showing that the economy has shifted to growth mode.
I've had it with you people spouting this growth bullshit! The is NO growth, only destruction, and that destruction will bring down all that you believe you are growing.
This is a finite planet and we're consuming its concentrated bounty at a rapid rate, a rate that is now SLOWING because exponential growth is finally choking itself, as ALL exponential growth (of a finite thing) eventually does.
All of your longwinded dissertations are predicated on this notion that we can somehow have endless growth. Because such is not possible ALL the reminder of your discussion is moot.
Thanks for playing!
Leo that growth is a nothing but a pyrrhic victory. Growth through excessive deficit spending might work for while but debt is debt and has to be repaid at some point.
They may have record amounts of cash, but the Investments in Securities part of the asset side is a big negative number if companies were forced to mark to market.
Wow... Sorry to say, but my respect for your insight just fell by a trillion dollars with that statement.
My thoughts exactly. But don't overlook "We need US consumers with good jobs to support consumption."
Consumption is the answer! Who the fuck knew?
"Once banks start lending to each other, credit will flow again to the real economy".
Hmmm..i think thats the model we dont want in while we are in the "care and repair" part of this game. Banks lending to each is only desirable if it facilitates the transfer of capital to another banks customers. Since all bank risk is now guaranteed by the Fed/Govt (here and in Europe), there is only one bank. I think until intervention is withdrawn, we know interbank activity is useless, immoral and serves no economic purpose.
By the way, Shillers case that economic indicators are useless is true. When you have an economy being pump-primed towards a politically (not economically) determined sector (finance in this case, to fund bail-outs) all signals are erroneous since they do not represent the dicovery of the best allocation of resources at a reasonable price and risk. Saying an economy is growing at 4% per annum, when the Government and central banks are pumping in 20% per annum into the economy is a specious argument akin to the arguments made that the housing bubble was sustainable.
I am not claiming it's fraudulent. I am claiming it is IRRELEVANT. And it is irrelevant because it does not describe the market conditions because of the degree of government intervention.
The thing is, the information contend is so distorted that whether we actually grow or stagnate is a wild guess. It has been done before and as I mentioned all it caused was economic hibernation and pain for years.
p.s.
Also the real indicator of economic expansion - business expenditures (machinery or R&D) is FLAT.
Leo,
I don't think we are growing in terms of the REAL economic growth. Have the statistical numbers went up or stopped falling, you bet. However we have interfered with the business cycle, we have fixed RE prices and Credit prices and by doing so most of those numbers do not necessary represent actual information. What we did is to shift higher future economic growth into now with little of success to achieve the V shaped recovery. One example would be Japan, after trying to fix their numbers by huge deflation fighting attempts and huge government investments they have reduced their economic growth to null for decades to go. It took them 7 years to fall into the recession ( from 1991 to 1997, that's how huge their gov vs GDP expenditure were) while growing at around 1%. Do we want to call such a growth an economic growth or just fudging some meaningless (due to price controls, and similar ) numbers?
Another example is USSR. Our statistics is becoming similar to theirs, even if it is not manipulated, it does not represent the MARKET fundamentals because of the price fixing and other gov interference.
I would call the event that our economy & society currently experience - the great hibernation.
Leo I usually agree with and go against the flow with that attitude, and I will also, partially agree with you here. I said partially; here is why.
First off; if deficit is larger than growth, there is no growth. One dollar borrowed is translated into negative economic creation. Ergo no growth.
Statisticians differentiation between the two, is at most, misleading, and some would call it fraudulent [think impact on credit derivatives market, LIBOR, TED spread, price and yields of other bonds etc etc]. I would agree with those who say it is fraudulent. I don't know if you are familiar with CDS pricing, IRS etc etc pricing mechanisms, but they are based solely on US credit ratings and interest rates. Fuck that up, the world blows. We are more fragile than ever before.
Also the thing about gold price is that it is diluted via leveraged cash-settled ETFs which have survived for this long only because gold has become more of a speculative trade since 2008 [maybe 2007], and less of a investment. Since hedge funds who buy GLD, SLV etc etc are not interested into taking delivery and are more than happy to settle in cash due to reasons you surely must know. ETF is like a bank; it only has access to X% of deposits, and loans out the rest; the same is with ETFs, if there is an increase of only 5% in wanting delivery instead of cash gold goes up 20% since GLD needs to go out and buy said gold which it does not own [i suspect they will soon change contract variables so that it will became cash-settled-only ETF which would have the same pricing technique as it does now; that should do the trick] and due to 100:1 leverage employed. Hence if only physical gold was to be traded i suspect fair price with current currency weakness is in the area of 50000-100000 dollars. Yes you read that right. What they did with gold is the same trick that was done with the dollar; they printed it and artificially lowered its value.
The problem for GLD is that in order for it to function, and to be able to keep gold down, it needs to maintain a constant distribution of ratios between cash-settled contract termination vs. delivery taken. If said equilibrium is distorted either by disbelief in the dollar or increase in delivery taken, the game is over.
If you take the notional value of all dollar denominated gold trading instruments and divided it by inventory of physical gold i suspect you would get a leverage which is much higher than 100:1.
Of course this plays no role for the markets themselves, and yes Schiff is going agains the flow and will probably get burned; but he is right; and he even understated golds fair value.
What you said about China is spot on, and I agree with you on your assessment of ECB. The FED will sacrifice ECB Because preventing dollar deflation is more important than preventing EUR deflation.
CB,
I never bought gold bullion, gold shares or the GLD, and never will. Why? For the same reason that I don't buy cigarette stocks. Sure, they may be very profitable investments, but my money isn't going to go in any industry or investment that adds nothing to society. Why invest in gold when you can invest in tech, alternative energy, healthcare, infrastructure, nanotech, biotech, etc.?!?!? It's crazy watching this gold mania take hold as people fear the end of the world is coming...simply crazy!