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Rick Santelli tells the truth about GLD and SLV on CNBC [Video]
Something that is known to ZH readership since day one, is now finally said openly on the most watched [probably] business channel in the world.
And just for the sake of it, lets thrown in Peter Schiff and his take on the real price of gold.
Things look grim for the FIAT, even more so with all the recent articles assessing gold as, not a substitute for current form of currency, but THE preferred form of currency. Gold is finally getting the attention it should have been given to long, long time ago.
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@Leo
"For the same reason that I don't buy cigarette stocks. Sure, they may be very profitable investments, but my money isn't going to go in any industry or investment that adds nothing to society. Why invest in gold when you can invest in tech, alternative energy, healthcare, infrastructure, nanotech, biotech, etc.?!?!? It's crazy watching this gold mania take hold as people fear the end of the world is coming...simply crazy!"
Monetary stability apparently isn't important for society. I assume you prefer to not have locks on doors, or safety procedures at nuclear facilities.
2ndly if you understand peak oil properly you'd understand investing in high-tech is akin lighting our few remaining resources on fire; none of that stuff is sustainable.
Leo, I would be ashamed of "adding to society" at this juncture. Did you bother to read Marla's piece about the silver curtain (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/silver-curtain)? You want to prop up the farcists by buying stocks in rent seeking solar panel companies controlled by the likes of Al Gore? And you call that "adding to society"?
Buying physical gold is far and away the best way to affect passive resistance to the farcists. Anyone owning treasuries, ETF's, Muni's and most stocks is supporting this farcist system.
If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
Beautifully said, Confederate!
I salute your succinct eloquence and wisdom.
Does nothing for society? Gold overpowering the USD has the potential to transform our political way of thinking. The big government / nanny state / central planning mindset that is so pervasive in the world today will be shown for the fraud that it is.
Dollars are votes. We pretend that they aren't because its such a dirty concept. But at the end of the day, dollars are votes. Vote for change you can believe in. Vote for gold.
That is the "good" behind gold. It is an abstract concept... open your mind to it and you will see it.
No guarantee our call is any better, but we too stay away from fads and simply endeavor to employ savings as productively as possible - all the while actively avoiding anything which might feed the parasites on Wall Street. Buy and holders are perceived as chumps - but we shall see.....
Besides...don't see how mountains of gold would ever employ newly minted graduates trying to pay off their student loan scams. Should we now forget about them? These "end of days" ideas just make me want to cover my nose.
How does anyone really believe they can be "all out" if SHTF?
Leo - Why feed the Ponzi? Serious question. Thanks.
Leo,
first time I read you you giving a credible reason why you dislike gold.
Surely it feels like betting on someone elses' misery; or put in another way it is like short selling stock.
For me the reason to own bullion is a vote of distrust into the financial system.
For now I have not seen a lot of effort to get at least somewhat fair play in the financial system.
If the smart wins over the stupid -o.k; but right now the powerful and connected have the field heavily tilted their way.
Once that is fixed I am ready to look for investment inside the system.
Surely you are aware that gold is not found in ingots or coins, right? You may be surprised at the effort in regard to mining and refining in the US that is supported by raw materials, including gold.
This is the first time I have ever agreed with you Leo, but, I agree 100% with you here. Investing in non-productive behavior is absurd. It is simply furthers the financialisation of an economy paralyzed by this virulence.
Gold is not money nor can it be in a world of 6.5B people. People need to understand what money is(the abstraction of labor-value) before they understand what it can not be.
Anarkst,
Word? Productive behavior like horse buggies and typewriters once were? When you say "Gold is not money nor can it be in a world of 6.5B people" your ignorance is loud and clear. Let me ask you something, if they converted our dollars into dollars that, instead of presidents pictures, had the words 'Fiat Dollars: Not backed by any assets whatsoever." on it, but were a 1:1 conversion and were to serve the exact same purpose as current dollars, do you think that the dollar purchasing power would be unaffected? Please explain why or why not? Thanks in advance!
Anarskt, please tell us why gold "cannot be used as money in a world of 6.5 B people."
If you answer is that "there is not enough gold", then kindly inform us, just how much WOULD be "enough"?
...and Anarkst drops the "not enough gold" turd and moves on. Are we sure JB/MB is not operating under yet another username or is this just another uninformed acolyte?
Screw society. Technology, oh yeah, there is a real boon to society. Ask New Orleans about infrastructure, they have not gotten it right since 1733. Nano and bio, call Monsanto and ask for some plastic corn.
Thank you!
There are FAR more people hyping technology than gold, yet, for some reason it's off limits to bash technology, even though time and time again technology fails us (TPTB keep the spin on so that they can make their money off of making people believe that technology is good for us- problem is what the definition of "us" is- 2/3 of the world's population lives on $3/day or less, yeah, technology is good for them, NOT! [not only do they not benefit, but they suffer the externalities that technology creates]).
RoundUp ready tomatoes, etc. - gag
Leo,
I understand the intent of your statement regarding investing in something that adds to society, but unless I am missing something all you are doing is trading in the secondary market of shares for a capital gain, end of story. It's not like you are getting in on an IPO (please correct if Im wrong) where you are funding the company with initial capital or even a secondary dilutive issue of new shares where you are re-capitalizing said company.
Re: gold, you should own physical gold for insurance at the very least. I mean, if your insurance policy pays off, that means everything really went to hell in a hand basket. I agree on GLD, and SLV for that matter. They are simply casino instruments used by banks and hedge funds to hose people.
Good point. Leo wants to invest in something worthwhile, he doesn't actually want to participate in doing it. He is a rent seeker.
Cmon Leo. Biotech. Yeah sure there is plenty of good in the sector. But there are as many crooks in biotech as there are in the mining sector. Whether it is "proven reserves" or "cell therapy" technology verified by some bought off Harvard wank the holy card doesn't quite fit.
Now the gold mania? Certainly agree. But on the economy how thick are those rose-colored glasses? Obviously government spending is a wet dream that follows some.
History Leo, its simply history, some of it quite recent. Au,Ag, time after time, has proven its worth for thousands of years. My wife's mother, early 60's in asia, had to use it to buy food after a currency collapse.
Get yourself a copy of Ralph T Foster's "Fiat paper money" and read it. It is a history book. In the back of the book is a list of fiat currency failures two pages long, small print!
This fiat system is going down Leo, protect yourself...
...
Sure, it always has value, but WHAT IS that value?
The value is relative to the economic situation. If you feel that the economic situation will get worse, and worse, and worse: gold is a good investment.
If you feel that the economic situation will get better, than the price of gold will decrease.
The trend never goes on forever in any case. Which way it will go is the subject of speculation.
I do not believe that the fiat system will end in the near future.
Dollars have been devalued very much since 1913. Yet, I still can use dollars to buy things. As long as the confidence is there, the system will not crash.
As long as people can use their dollars, the confidence will be there.
money has 2 primary usages:
1) medium of exchange (key quality : universal acceptance)
2) store of value (key quality : trust)
no one form of money ever invented has ever proven successful at both functions over the long term. so why not use 2 different forms of money to serve each respective primary function? is there really something illogical with that? isn't that what central banks do? isn't that what the elite families have been doing for millenia?
empires come, empires go. fiat money comes, fiat money goes. what remains solid, material, tangible across the tides of history?
1) That confidence is eroding steadily as we speak, and the rate of erosion is accelerating as more Americans wake up to the corrupt and failing Ponziconomy in which we are currently trapped,
2) That which is unsustainable will not continue, and the fiat dollar is unsustainable, as have been all fiat currencies throughout history, misplaced and naive confidence or no,
3) The confidence that you believe backs the dollar is not just that of the American people, but the confidence of the entire world who hold and use it as a reserve currency; that confidence is demonstrably and openly being lost,
4) Your blind faith in the status quo, and desperate bluster and appeals to authority, demonstrate that you are ignorant of monetary and financial history. EVERY experiment in fiat currency has ended in devaluation and collapse, with a return to sound and honest, precious-metal backed money (until it is subverted and killed by rapacious government once again) --- just precisely how and why is it going to be different this time?
And for the record, just what do you get out of fervently and rabidly attacking others for their chosen investment and financial protection strategy? I do not trust holding most equities at this time, and yet I curiously do not spend many hours each day trolling equity trading websites, berating those participating for investing in stocks, telling them how ignorant they are for doing so, and disrupting their discussions with an endless stream of anti-equity rants. So just what is your purpose here, and why do you ONLY post in threads in which the subject of gold is being discussed?
I rarely find myself in partial agreement with JB but a word of advice to most on this forum is to look beyond ZeroHedge every now and then. Get a feel for what for what the economy is thinking and feeling. By the economy I mean the retail investor and the guy on the street.
Y'know "Joe Sixpack", "Sheople".
You guys all have cars. Join a car forum and post something related to economics there and sample the replies. From my unscientific surveys most think things are getting better.
Most of the people think things are getting better. If perception is reality then it is getting better until the next headline which says otherwise.
Until we hit a tipping point of people not believing this reality of paper money it will continue. We can kick that can, entend and pretend until infinity until the mythical Black Swan appears.
Just look at what perception is doing to the Euro. Give it a week and the focus will be on the UK then the USA, then China.
When enough people believe Gold is money it will be money and there will be no turning back.
Anyone who thinks gold is in a bubble is wrong. Sample the population and most couldn't tell you the price nor could they tell what's in a troy ounce. When people can tell you what's in a troy ounce or they start talking how much their gold has appreciated or their mining stocks have kicked ass. Then it's time to get out.
It works! Hopium works! Obama saved the day! The MSM wasn't lying at all!
Hey, Akak! Didn't we just go thru all this on another post?
Maybe we could just copy/paste in reply to JB/MB. That would save reading the same tripe over and over. I'm with you on the gold bashing appearances -- whassup with this?
I'm not convinced that we're not seeing multiple persons using the same username. Kinda like ZH's Tylers. There are distinct grammatical and personality traits that vary from groupings of messages. Hmmm.
+ $1230 Rocky!
O/T, but, Hulk, I finally had an excuse to crack open the Absinthe late last night. Tastes like pastis, but it is green. But, it plays hell on your thinking, I had to shake off the pink elephants and thinking processes like J Bravo.
Great response Akak. I find that in the case of Master Bates/Johnny Bravo, I'm better off ignoring the post and only reading the replies.
... and yet I curiously do not spend many hours each day trolling equity trading websites, berating those participating for investing in stocks
So true. What's this guy's game?
Sure, gold may well be a bubble, because of the massive capital inflow into it. But if i throw away all the synthetics and hybrids from the equation which tells me what an ounce of gold is worth against the value of the dollar i come to the price i said above. Of all investors in gold, gold synthetics, gold hybrid instruments etc etc, only 1-2% of the entire pool of investors buy gold for preserving wealth in an environment where the faith in FIAT is diminishing with each passing day. I own gold; its not a big percentage of my assets; but i do own it; if for nothing else then to calm the inner pessimistic me who knows to much about history and present times regarding money and how money ends and what happens afterwards. Maybe nothing happens, maybe they continue to play this circle jerk for another 100 years, maybe they introduce SDRs and begin a new cycle; i really do not know; but it makes me feel better to have some of my money in physical gold; and i dont care about the liquidity of the markets. also i dont invest into anything that is, was or will be publically owned or traded in any of the numerous exchanges. I had some offers to take my [former] company public and each time i said no, because instead of hard cash i can utilize in way i find the most appropriate i would have a piece of paper which value would flactuate with each minute it is traded. Also the whole bureaucracy which makes the market structure is simply to discusting and greedy for me to be related to it in any way.
Well with that said, I hope you are, personally, doing well. I read your comment the other day when people bad mouthed you and it just wasn't in good manner or appropriate. My take is; keep your investment advice for yourself; since people are distrustful animals who became what they became due to skepticism which sometimes transforms into paranoia. Dont try to help anyone, even-though i know you have the best intentions when you recommend a stock or a sector. But just leave it be; if they want to know more about something, all the knowledge they can chew is only a few clicks of the mouse away. Dont shatter your nerves day in day out feeding someone something he/she can not/will not eat.
You're completely backwards about GLD though.
Taking GLD away would significantly reduce the number of speculators in gold.
There are people playing GLD and SLV merely for the specualtive aspects, and not because they have any desire to own gold at all.
Without the speculators, the price will go down significantly.
The speculators in these ETFs are driving the price. However, without said speculators, the demand would DECREASE and not increase.
50000 to 100000 gold is just lunacy. There is no fundamental basis for that claim whatsoever. If there is, I would like to see it. I might believe you if you show me your logic, mathematics, or whatever.
Like I said though, there is so much demand in gold that comes from people that don't actually want gold at all. Without GLD, you'd see a similar crash as the one that happened in oil in 2008. Without speculators, the price would find actual, instead of bubble, values.
GLD makes the price of gold increase, not decrease.
Sir, you are not correct.
If you think the retail joe 6pack who is buying 10 shares of GLD cause he read a pumper post about it here has any influence on the SPOT price of gold (you know, whats traded on the CME and not your {insert any ECN}) then you are completely wrong. Spot gold moves with the contracts for future delivery, just as the SPY moves with the e-minis.
Think you can influence the price of BAC by buying a shitload of FAS/FAZ? No you cant. Same applies here, even though a bank-run on the actual ETF would no doubt have some influence on gold price.
So dont say taking away an (albeit popular) ETF will have any influence on the price of gold. I suggest you look into market structure when it comes to introducing and trading ETFs/ETNs.
It's a hedge. The price of gold is kept low by bank a passing bank b shitloads of gold and then re-importing it back at lower prices. It's just a currency swap run in reverse with the spread showing up FOR the currency and against gold. It's background noise to make REAL gold transactions worse. The ETF's are a hedge against people pulling a france. IE taking real delivery. If they don't reimport back they cram the ETF which should lower prices of gold but as you have seen they don't for more than a few days. What they do is punish the scams gains for currency. When they start doing huge paper gold selloffs and gold moves down 20 bucks and gets it all back in 3 days and then you see a huge movement in a currency you'll know the "system" has lost it's gentleman's promise to help cheat each others citizens.
Well put, sir. Quite well put.
bought an original "Have Gun Will Travel" businesscard, signed on the back by Claude Akins.
from ebay good condition $40.00
you'd be better off buying a ccy like the AUD where they haven't printed money and you can get yourself a 6% yield.
CB
This is the most pragmatic and logical view of the whole situation. Leo is just betting the ponzi will go on and many people think it will end soon. The question is when will it end.
But it's very much a legitimate quesiton, and those urging Leo to go away are seriously misguided. I don't want to frequent an echo chamber.
me neither, how boring is that?
I never discount Leo's opinion because its a valid one. The fact is this could go on for a number of yrs. and Leo might end up being right for that period of time, but if the confidence in the market erodes then all bets are off.
Thanks CB, no worries, I will be taking a step back from now on. Said what I had to say, will leave it at that. Thanks again, you're a valuable contributor.
keep writing plz Leo i and many more enjoy your work. nothing you have written is junk.
don´t back down to a bunch of worthless fucking keyboard warriors.
Leo, We are all trying to put into focus what realistically can be described as an unclear future. I made a conscious decision to buy PM's off and on over the past 20 years or so. I have just under 40% of my liquid assets in gold/silver. The reason the percentage is so high is because of price appreciation. That makes it easy for me to think of gold when I am trying to ride out the worst economic storm of a century. Schiff is also ahead of that curve. I struggle with what else do I need to be doing to assure my families future, and are there better investments I should be looking at? Land for instance.
Frankly I joined the ZH forum to engage different viewpoints. I discovered perspectives that were foreign to my way of thinking. Some I will probably discard but others had me rushing to order books from Amazon this morning.
My thought is you are here for the same reason, trying to make sense of this economic nightmare we are living through, and how best to make our way.
Good luck
dumpster for one .. does not to have to explain to leo why he bought gold
leo is a feather weight when it comes to gold
read and follow the likes of a jim sinclair ,
for a true understanding
leo knows squat about gold ,and will be badly burned if he wer in the usa . . the cando will do better , so a canadian giving advice to a us person is as unlikely as a skunk giving advice to a pestering cat.
.
The problem with investing in land is that it is hard to generate any income (I am assuming we are not talking about rental property) and property taxes are unpredictable. Most people do not own land (as in ranch or farm land), and property taxes are voted on by people who do not have to pay the tax, and benefit from the tax. Hence, in buying land, you are subject to the whims of voters. Buying a place that you would some day live on makes sense, but parking money in land is tough, as any appreciation can easily be eaten up by taxes, and the asset can actually lead to negative cash flow.
Reb,
"and property taxes are voted on by people who do not have to pay the tax, and benefit from the tax. Hence, in buying land, you are subject to the whims of voters."
Alexis de Tocqueville saw this flaw long ago...the tyranny of the majority, however, if one buy's for their home there is no hill better to plant the flag than home ;-)
Deo Vindicie
Nmewn,
I could not agree more . . . the best investment is enough land to live on, and support yourself. It takes a relatively small amount of property to support yourself quite nicely. A key part is to invest in relationships with neighbors. You need to live there, and build network before things get bad. No, the Amish will not welcome the hordes in once things go bad.
FYI, the icon is the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia.
Reb,
I bought mine 20 years ago...I have enough to support my family if needed...but I don't subscribe to the doom & gloom...I don't believe it will ever come...but we all need to be "hedged" for the improbable.
"FYI, the icon is the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia."
Yep...mine was with A.P.Hill...Cold Harbor among other places...a small farmer and a preacher...went on to be a State Rep. in the state...raised a bunch of kids...normal stuff.
Takes balls to show your colors in these uninformed times...well done.
SeeYa
That's ironic these days, huh?
Is that like a retro British flag or something?
Actually St.Andrews cross...Scot.
The more you seek the more you learn ;-)