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Rick Santelli Uncut (And GE Turbofan Commercial Free)

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Having rapidly become the only person worth listening to on CNBC, Rick Santelli's insights on the economy are now far more valuable than any other guest's on the Jeff Immelt propaganda station. Which is why we were very happy to find that Eric King's latest interview was with none other than Mr. Santelli. The topics discussed are numerous, varied and and very critical to our economy, covering such concepts as deflation, deficit spending, bailouts, government spending multipliers, Fed transparency, spending cuts, austerity, the folly of Keynesianism, strategic defaults, direct bidders and treasury auctions, and lastly, tea party dynamics, making this a must hear interview for anyone still on either side of the economic fence, and who enjoys listening to Rick for longer than the 45 second segments the CNBC producers will allow.

  • Deflation: "deflation is the most disingenuous argument especially in the current conditions. [When the bubble process ends prices have to come down to reality] the process really is deleveraging, but what happens when prices go down you get the economists call it deflation. Deflation is always the biggest bogeyman in a central banker's closet. It also allows them to use the only tool in their toolbox, which is to spend money, and usually money they haven't collected yet, so it's usually a deficit form of spending. Think about what economists are trying to do: we go up too high in leverage, prices are too high, we try to correct that process, it's called deflation, and they try to put money in to prop it up at an artificial price-deleveraging is the word we should stick to"
  • Deficit spending: "the only thing that works is across the board tax cuts because it fuels the type of small business that does the bulk of the hiring"
  • Bailouts: "the only regulation that will ever work is failure. If you don't allow failure what you end up with is regulators trying to serve when it's time to take punch bowls away. Regulators never go against the grain. Back in 03-04 many in the fixed income markets saw it coming but nobody wants to pull that punch bowl away. Businesses should fail, that's the way the system was designed"
  • The Multiplier of Government spending: "Larry Summers on many occasions has said that the multiplier of government spending is greater than 1. If that was true, we'd never have another recession ever again, and I would be advocating to spend a trillion dollars every hour. It would be like a perpetual motion machine and all physicists know those are impossible. Every dollar the government spends comes from somebody's pocket"
  • Fed Transparency: "It seems to me we are making some progress on the financial audit. I absolutely agree that on all of the issues that take taxpayers' money and end up being distributed or put on the balance sheet and in any way used by the Fed, there should be an audit that should be fully transparent. I am worried about the financial accounting"
  • On Spending Cuts: "Listeners, this is going to be the most important thing I am going to say: we need to maintain the focus on spending, the politicians in my lifetime always spend. If we end up spending way more than we can take in, in essence the deficit panel becomes a tax panel. We must stop spending before we talk about VAT taxes or taxing Americans more, we need to get spending under control. The retings of congress are the lowest they have been in history." 
  • On Austerity: "Nobody wants that. But there is a silver lining - the UK have conditions in their economy worse than the US, but they came up with an austerity plan, and we see that their currency has been rewarded. The GBP has risen about 10% in a very short period of time."
  • On Keynesianism: "The Keynesians are both right and wrong. I don't think Keynes advocated the kind of helicopter-Ben spending  that many say he promoted. He promoted the kind of stimulus that created jobs, that's more the medicine for a cyclical downturn, we have a structural issue because of the bubble credit scenario."
  • On the ECB's Debt Monetization: "I think that the ECB has a huge issue and they are behind the ball. They don't have a constitution in the eurozone, they have cultural and monetary cultural issues to deal with. I think that buying securities or monetizing or QE is always a bad idea. Once there is a subsidy in the marketplace, it becomes the normal pricing mechanism. For the Fed or the ECB to unload these securities, becomes a destabilizing force and in the long run does more harm than good."
  • On Strategic Defaults: "I have feelings on this that go both ways. I think morally I would have an issue doing that, but people who did the mortgage, or the second mortgage, or took a HELOC to pay for cars, pay for the vacations, I think it is reprehensible that we end up reshuffling wealth to pay some of that off. But I think the dynamic is from the government side - I think contracts between banks and homeowners - if it's unsecured, it's unsecured, I don't have an issue with that."
  • On Direct Bidders being a proxy for the Fed (a much debated topic on Zero Hedge) and Treasury Auctions in general: "That's the best question anyone has asked me in a long time. I think there is a recycling quid pro quo going on: the Fed is making banking obsolete because a lot of the programs that they have is to take the cheap end of the curve and invest it in Treasuries. Well the Treasury needs as many buyers as it can get. I think the financial institutions are recycling easy money that should be going into John Q Public's pocket, to those that deserve credit, all this money is ending up in the forms of purchases of 10, 7, and 5-Year Notes, and I don't like that way that's working. That's why I think that raising rates would be a good thing. Why? Because it would take some of the easy ways the banks recycle the Fed's cheap money and put it back in the hands of the public and actually make banking a relationship between banks and Americans that need it whether it is for funding a mortgage or funding a small business."
  • And on Tea Party dynamics: "I think November 2 is going to be a watershed of Americans letting Washington know they're the boss."

Full must hear interview can be listened to here, courtesy of King World News.

 

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Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:16 | 450885 Carl Marks
Carl Marks's picture

Makes too much sense. Must be wrong.

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 06:00 | 451437 Popo
Popo's picture

On Keyensianism he could be even more clear:

Here's Keynesianism in a nutshell:  When times are good, government has to save.  When times are bad, government has to spend.

A work of genius, it is not.

The problem with the jackasses running the show right now is that they forgot the first part and now they're trying to implement the second.  They forgot the 'saving' part, and they're attempting the 'spending' part. That of course, is retarded -- and only produces unsustainable compound debt.

To be fair, Keynes gets a bad rap because the dim bulbs in power today claim to be Keynesians.  They are not, and never have been.  The only word for the current fiscal philosophy is one of "utter irresponsibility".   Bernanke has a big green flashing button marked "Spend", and he slaps it whenever he gets into trouble... then he yammers on about the "art" of central banking...  What a douche.

 

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:14 | 451509 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

Po, I have not seen you post here on zzzzhhh,

so perhaps you have missed a few points:

a. gov leaders always need a crisis so times are always BAD.

b. saving in good times has no current benefit to your voters, how do you justify that you belong in DC? The next guy will bring home the bacon.

c. so simple if you would think about who is in gov ..not angels. so simple Keynesianism in our system of gov is unworkable and leads to QE2 and 3 ....

stay in the real world please.We here at ZH value that, above all else.

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:33 | 451519 economicmorphine
economicmorphine's picture

There's nothing wrong with his post.  It's certainly preferable to posts from pompous jackasses who lecture other posters on what to post, for example.  The fact of the matter is he's right.  

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:57 | 451528 anarchitect
anarchitect's picture

He's right, but so is the response, because it explains why politicians will never save when times are good. That makes the response even more insightful and useful than the original post.

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:21 | 451537 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

as hard as TD and many here on ZH try to remove bias from our views and post what

evidence there is for what is true vs manipulated data or facts or preconceptions, many will cling to long held ideas no matter how much the objective data refutes them..

the human condition..socialists ..if stalin was only a pure communist it would have worked..

as for kensyians: we will keep the faith no matter how many times it fails.

the founding fathers did not put much faith in "those who seek to govern are angels"

when you assign almost absolute power to others why expect to get anything other than what human nature predicts: there are many more sociopaths than angels in any current population of those seeking power.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 12:22 | 454497 mdwagner
mdwagner's picture

Keynes also said that too large of a trade deficit will lead to permanent recession.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:06 | 450887 wagefreedom
wagefreedom's picture

Oh for the day when a guy so marginalized by CNBC can have more of a platform. Thanks for this.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:31 | 450947 Enkidu
Enkidu's picture

+++++

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 20:26 | 451113 russki standart
russki standart's picture

Never happen. GE, aka CNBC, is a financial  services firm in the business of selling stock and carbon credits. Santelli is a guiding light in a sea of mediocrity,  but the first and last purpose of CNBC is to promote GE views via soft porn stars and stock hypesters.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 15:31 | 453318 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Wait a second...wasn't NBC sold to Comcast?

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:10 | 450889 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I suspect the only reason Rick remains employed by CNBC is because he brings some credibility to the network. I keep CNBC running on my desktop all day with the volume off........except when I notice Rick is speaking. Then the volume is immediately turned on and I pay attention. I suspect since my TV is tuned to CNBC for the entire business day, I'm measured as a viewer. I know of a number of other independent brokers who do the same thing.

It just kills me to think that I might just be one of many who are keeping CNBC alive and kicking. Please CNBC, fire Rick so your network can die the natural death it deserves

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:38 | 450914 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I also have CNBC on all the time.  There are cherries to pick now and then, but Santelli always gets my attention.  For a possible scenario, just see how Dylan Ratigan's career changed for basically the same philosophy diversions.  (Not necessarily the same ideas, just the dissonance of viewpoints compared to the network as an entity.)

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:41 | 450916 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Word. Have CNBC playing on mute like most ppl, usually turn it up to hear Santelli and if perhaps Schiff, Grasso, Gartman, or one of the PimpCos are on. Strategy session's not bad either. Fast Money's half decent.

Oh anyone know what Jeff Macke is up to? Youtube Macke Attack and enjoy:)

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 20:14 | 451092 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

i thought strategy session was lame as fuck. I like Kudlow

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 08:34 | 451491 Nikki
Nikki's picture

Kudlow ?. Surely you are trying to be a provocateur Spitzer. I wish I had the YouTube link of him and (f)Art Laffer ripping on Peter Schiff's housing/banking doom scenario.... That came to be.

Kudlow is a buffoon, a clod, a clown, charlatan, hypster, con man.... Or as most ZH readers would say... Ass Clown.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 20:38 | 453639 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Kudlow is my best contra-indicator.  He has, however, lately admitted that gold is becoming an important currency.  So, he can't be all wrong -- just 90% wrong.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:47 | 450920 Mark McGoldrick
Mark McGoldrick's picture

I do the exact same thing. 

I have my back to the television virtually all day with low volume - except for Rick's commentary. For that brief minute, I actually pay attention to CNBC.   

He always makes sense, and I never feel like I'm being sold an agenda.  Just unfiltered, sensible, honest market commentary.  Why is that so fucking difficult?

 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:27 | 450942 hayleecomet
hayleecomet's picture

Touche', CD.   I went from muting CNBC straight to Bloomberg on mute.  Even though I miss Santelli, I couldn't take LOOKING at that station with their octi-boxes and tight titti-sweaters.  They should all be sent to the cartoon network.

ZH should take a poll on how many people keep CNBC tuned in with the mute button.  LOL.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 22:17 | 451206 SPONGE
SPONGE's picture

+1 for the mute.

   It's just a stream  for some instant market info. without taking up a computer screen

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 00:40 | 451342 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

That Mandy gal is easy on the eyes, she and Rick should go to FOX.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 18:30 | 451022 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

I do the same.  CNBC is useful for the changing numbers display and worth hearing when Rick is on.   

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 19:13 | 451045 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

removed / i goofed .

 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 20:20 | 451107 Arius
Arius's picture

simon is good too...

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 20:30 | 451114 russki standart
russki standart's picture

Quoting CD: Please CNBC, fire Rick so your network can die the natural death it deserves

 

Amen, Brother. Let us pray...

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 03:09 | 451388 laughing_swordfish
laughing_swordfish's picture

Same Here.

Here at DKM Trading Division we are Bloomberg subscribers but I have a monitor in my office tuned to CNBS with the sound muted.

Santelli (and DR) are the only ones I crank the volume for - except to laugh at Cramer when he's really contrary to all sense and logic.

He's always good for a laugh at the end of the day - and I instruct the younger men to listen carefully to what he has to say and be careful to do the opposite.

 

KrvtKpt. laughing swordfish

DKM Trading Division

 

 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:12 | 450890 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

"Having rapidly become the only person worth listening to on CNBC"

lol, aint that the truth, though I do like looking at Erin Burnett on mute.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:17 | 450899 knukles
knukles's picture

Liz Clayman on Fox

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:33 | 450909 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

I don't watch FOX, Haven't checked out their business channel, local cable monopoly doesn't offer it, but the regular FOX, I can't decide if they are trying to insult my intelligence or disgust me.  Same could be said for most MSM nowadays though.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:43 | 450917 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Mandy 'Whatever' Drury ftw

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 18:08 | 451012 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

You've forced me to say this.  Look closely at Rick, I think he has, uhhh, quite a package.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:13 | 450892 Rick64
Rick64's picture

Santelli is never one to pull punches. Speaks what he believes, a straightshooter.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:06 | 450970 Mitchman
Mitchman's picture

Dear Scooby,

Your owner either obviously forgot to pick up after you or he needs a bigger pooper scooper.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 22:53 | 451239 Rick64
Rick64's picture

I am guessing that you disagree. Why I don't know but maybe you should stop watching cartoons and state your reasoning.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 19:21 | 451052 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Scooby lay off the doobies and stop talking out of your ass.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 22:50 | 451236 Rick64
Rick64's picture

Who is Scooby and why are you listening to my ass?

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 23:31 | 451276 Scooby Dooby Doo
Scooby Dooby Doo's picture

Homer wants to hear you play your horn.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:15 | 450896 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

November 2 ?? Then what ?? Rotation of the crooks batallion from assholes to buttholes

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:15 | 450936 buzlightening
buzlightening's picture

LOL King?  Maybe mix it enough the powers that be do not know who to bribe in the CONgress/SINate for globilzation and eventual world rule; after 11/2!!  Still enough AmeriCON'd the beautiful to take we the peoples choice award from these rat basturds who call dead head fed goons selves; a representation of free people!!  

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:55 | 451004 juangrande
juangrande's picture

What if everyone voted for candidates from one of the small independent parties regardless of your opinion of them?  No Dems. no Repubs. Just the clusterfuck that would happen while special interests scrambled to "inform" the newbies and the learning time needed to become a "politician" might buy some extra time for folks to wake up! I mean it couldn't be any worse than it is now, right?

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 18:36 | 451024 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Lindsay Graham wants the Tea Party to die off.  Yeah, anyone with independence drives them crazy. Imagine a huge audit of investment banks, the Fed, Treasury...   And prosecutions to follow.  It may take a national bankruptcy to get there.  

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 20:50 | 451134 russki standart
russki standart's picture

What Lindsay Graham really wants is to get his hands on the WH pages..

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 21:25 | 451162 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Agree - the one thing he's got wrong is that the Tea Party will have any impact in the current environment. The Corporations will never let anyone but either of the two/same parties get elected. And the sheeple don't really want to upset the Apple cart too much. Not yet anyway. 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 21:54 | 451184 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I don't believe it's about electing someone from a different party but rather choosing someone from any party that they have the power to influence electing.

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:04 | 451575 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

traderjoe:

"The Corporations will never let anyone but either of the two/same parties get elected. And the sheeple don't really want to upset the Apple cart too much. Not yet anyway."

Bob McDonnell (VA), Chris Cristie (NJ), Scott Brown (MA), Bob Bennett (UT).  We know it is a small sample size, but do you see any correlation in here?

- Ned

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:34 | 451609 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

Aye lad! There all Scottsmen!

(is that it??)

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 17:50 | 453498 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Tromso, Norway, Feb. '83 SAS Royal Hotel (after a couple of weeks in the snow):

Charles (a Captain in 45 Commando): "Lass, I'd like some whiskey".

Waitress: "Yes Sir, American or Canadian?"

Charles: "No, Lass, you'd say Scotch."

Waitress: "Yes Sir, would you like that with water or soda?"

Charles: "No, lass."

Waitress: "Would you like that on the rocks?"

Charles: "Lassie, that's still fooking water."

thanks-lmao.

- Ned

 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 21:46 | 451177 Psquared
Psquared's picture

Our only hope is gridlock.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:16 | 450897 knukles
knukles's picture

It's the Bond Guys Always Make Sense, when they're not the market or talking book.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:24 | 450903 AccreditedEYE
AccreditedEYE's picture

Thanks TD!

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:26 | 450905 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

He's got some right ideas but overall too weasel-ish, IMHO. 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:32 | 450908 Scooby Dooby Doo
Scooby Dooby Doo's picture

And why is he so weasel-ish? Because he takes after his boss, Immelt board member of the New York Federal Reserve Bank.

http://www.jewishcanton.org/92y_immelt.html

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 12:26 | 454502 Marla And Me
Marla And Me's picture

Non-sequitur, meet your friend, Scooby Dooby Doo

"And why is he so weasel-ish? Because he takes after his boss, Immelt board member of the New York Federal Reserve Bank.

http://www.jewishcanton.org/92y_immelt.html"

Scooby, we wouldn't want your wonderful comments to be junked into oblivion now would we.  Seriously Tyler, we need to up the junk oblivion to 30 comments... 20 is too short.  Divide and conquer...

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 20:22 | 451109 Arius
Arius's picture

yeah well...he is on cnbc after all...if everybody knew the game then they got to start a new game....cant be smt that everyone knows about...someone got to take the other side of the trade and get one for the team

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 20:47 | 451130 russki standart
russki standart's picture

GG, I am surprised he is allowed the degree of free rein he enjoys today. Financial reporting in the MSM is, at best inaccurate, and mostly misleading. GE needs suckers to take the other side of the trade, and what better way than to own a MSM outlet to talk their book.

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:25 | 451514 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

 

He's got some right ideas but overall too weasel-ish, IMHO.

They say the same about Celente. I detect a current of paisanophobia!

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:30 | 450907 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

Rick is far and away the best that CNBC offers (I know, that's a low, low bar) but what bothers me is Rick's belief that in the end the system is worth saving.  He is so trapped in the cesspool the he can't seperate the cess from the turds.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:48 | 450922 SayTabserb
SayTabserb's picture

One question: what does Santelli mean when he says the banks are "taking the cheap end of the curve" and investing it in Treasuries? This racket seems to be the key to the maintenance of the Treasury auctions going forward - if the Fed provides money to the banks at x % (.5%?) and allows them to make "Direct" purchases at 2-3% on Treasury bonds, then of course this game can go on forever and there is no reason for banks to bother with irritating real Americans who want to borrow money FROM them and maybe not pay it back. This also allows the Treasury the gimmick of an endless BTC at acceptable levels. But what exactly is the funding mechanism, Fed to banks, that Santelli is talking about? Just very curious. Anyone?

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:30 | 450930 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"But what exactly is the funding mechanism, Fed to banks, that Santelli is talking about? Just very curious. Anyone?"

It doesn't matter. As with most severely addicted or alcoholic, the only purpose in life is to get to the next fix or drink. It seems the banks/corporations and other economic system players are at this point. The funding source, how to get there from here, what to do when the supply runs out or changes, it all doesn't matter anymore. Just get me something to kill the pain now.

This utter desperation and fixed focus sweeps away all common sense. And any long term planing, defined as anything longer than the next fix, is totally absent. The Fed has everyone and everything strung out and willing to do anything to get through the day.

BTW, if speaking plainly and openly about our collective problems causes people so much pain that they would junk this comment, you have more problems than you recognize.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 19:16 | 451049 cbaba
cbaba's picture

+100 totally agree with you.

dont know who junked you, there are already 2 junks none is mine. as you said we have more trouble than we recognize.

 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 19:20 | 451050 DoctoRx
DoctoRx's picture

Agree w your comments including the final one, CD
Wish there would be a way to anti-junk.  Sure, people may disagree, but junking anti-Semitic comments is good to see, but junking your ZH mainstream comment strikes me as fringy.   

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 05:32 | 451424 anotheranon
anotheranon's picture

So it's fine for someone to express an opinion so long as you agree with them and it's 'mainstream', but if it's an opinion you personally disagree with then it's fine to censor them? I can tell you're a big fan of freedom of speech.

Fan of Trotsky by any chance?

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 07:26 | 451471 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I wasn't talking about freedom of speech when I talked about junking.

It seems you and others might misunderstand the purpose of the "junk" flag. It's not intended to indicate a disagreement of opinion. That's what the comment "reply" button is for. Junk, as per the ZH "terms of service", is to indicate blatantly offensive or completely unintelligible/off topic posts. What "junking" has turned into is the cowardly/lazy way of disagreeing without showing their face. 

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:19 | 451588 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Cognitive Dissonance

I applaud anyone who junks you.
You post self aggrandizing drivel.
The fact is even your own family has seen the truth regarding your weak assed philosophy. You yourself admitted your GF shot down your child rearing ideas. This is the person who is closest to you and should value your ideas. Instead she sees you as a Child Psych Uwe Boll.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 12:32 | 454523 Marla And Me
Marla And Me's picture

Gully, you're just still salty because CD politely asked that you maybe summarize the links you provide instead of copying and pasting them in their entirety.  He's kind of right... and he must have hit a cord given the level of vitriol exhibited by your ad hominem.

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:55 | 451565 Nikki
Nikki's picture

I'm not sure I agree with you on junking anti-sematic posts. If you mean junking a post that spews hatred for all semetic peoples, Jews and Arabs then I agree. If you are junking people who dare to discuss the Zionist cabal that is dis-proportionally represented in govt., media, banking (incl. Central), SCOTUS etc. then I would say you are blind fool. I like to see a distinction between the unfocused hatred and focused disgust of blatant criminality and corruption. I by no means believe every Italian is connected to the mafia and the same applies for Jewish people. The mafia does exist and so does the kosher nostra.

Junk away if you must...

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 20:31 | 451115 Arius
Arius's picture

CD - cant change people...losers will be losers...otherwise, whats the point of being a winner... :)  PLS junk this post....losers

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 22:40 | 451229 Kayman
Kayman's picture

SayTabserb

It is effectively printing money. Rolling over the old debt does not create new money, but all new debt that the Treasury issues is being backdoor financed, through credit creation by Benny and the Jets.

The reward for the Fed accomplices, is indeed the spread- long to short.

It's a hell of a price for the U.S. Taxpayers to pay just so Benny and Timmy can say they are not printing money to fund the deficit.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:54 | 450927 MountainHawk
MountainHawk's picture

Tea party movement..too little too late... The tea has gotten gold, guess that' makes it an iced tea...damn I'm funny

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:06 | 450931 Scooby Dooby Doo
Scooby Dooby Doo's picture

Ritholtz - "Faux Rant", is all I gotta say.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/rick-santellis-faux-rant/

CNBC picks up on the popularity of the faux rant and now it has become Santelli's stock-in-trade.

ZH loves to stroke the faux.

Scooby Dooby Doo!

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 22:23 | 451212 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

8 Junks... Scooby, have you been crapping on people's lawns again?

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 23:12 | 451256 Scooby Dooby Doo
Scooby Dooby Doo's picture

It's the Goldman fat finger boy. He keeps his finger fat by clicking the hedge. Persecuting innocent members of the commune. You should see what he does to Leo.

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 04:20 | 451413 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Those assholes are everywhere. Paying people with counterfeit money.

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:31 | 451697 Scooby Dooby Doo
Scooby Dooby Doo's picture

Don't get mad. If I was Santelli and commissioned ZH for a fantastic fluff piece. But ZH delivered a story calling my penis small and uncut I'd pay them in counterfeit fiatcons too.

AhRubbyDoobieDoo!

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 18:38 | 451027 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Maybe just in time.  We'll know in the next two elections.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 15:57 | 450928 Mae Kadoodie
Mae Kadoodie's picture

The Great Santelli.  CNBS should wise up & give Santelli & Liesman a two hour in studio show together.  If things get physical, you'll have the making of some great live tv.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:16 | 450937 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Went to a fight, and a financial show broke out. - Ned

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:30 | 450991 Mitchman
Mitchman's picture

LMAO!  2 minutes for truth telling!

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:04 | 450932 buzlightening
buzlightening's picture

Always liked Santelli and even more after listening to his insight!  Why can't we have Rick Santelli holding treasury purse strings rather than tiny tim using that turd he calls his goon sucks head!!  Oh we the people need wake up and I sincerely, with regards to Rick would like change 11/2!!  Lets oust the inscument rat basturds and never look back on AmeriCON'd the beautiful!  One nation under fraud; as ignorance is bliss!!  Vote out all dead head fed goon inscumbent rat bastards!!  Just one of them returns to office and we the people are rot to ripe and fall completely away from the tree of true liberty!!

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:08 | 450934 thesapein
thesapein's picture

When I was listening to KWN this morning, I was hoping this would be one of those every other Saturday links to a KWN interview. Particularly, I loved the way he called out deflationists who sound like protectionists wanting to save the TBTF's failed assets.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 21:12 | 451155 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

I was one of the eight junks so far.  I can't stand when people junk without putting their name on it.

JUNK

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 21:34 | 451168 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

It seems to me he did not listen to the King news world broadcast. There is a whole lot more there than the comments this poster cited. I will refrain from an actual junk, I save those for special situations. 

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:10 | 451580 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Ms: OT, I had mentioned this to you previously.  Just an example.  Happy Fourth. - Ned

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/spains-green-policies-an-economic-disaster/

 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:20 | 450941 arnoldsimage
arnoldsimage's picture

tyler... please run an article about this. this is crazy. http://naturalnews.tv/v.asp?v=203

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:49 | 450957 ThinkAVP
ThinkAVP's picture

That is CRAZY!!

BP and Government prob have no way of actually resolving this situation..  BP is worried about their balance sheets and investors,  Gov is prob worried about BP going Bankrupt WHO KNOWS!.. Whatever the situation,  this is another way to buy some time away from the TRUTH.. The government doing what they know how to do best, try and hide the situation until they are royaly FUCKED in this downward economy!!

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:52 | 450958 Muir
Muir's picture

I agree

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:54 | 450961 thesapein
thesapein's picture

Remember when even war was not an excuse to stop investigative journalism? Oh, wait, that before my lifetime. Now, our Prez can just repeat the slogan "state of emergency" and we all rollover, like magic. Pretty nifty.

There's not much investigative journalism left in this country to try and stop anyway. 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:25 | 450987 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

When the mainstream media is controlled by 5 or 6 multinational corporations, there isn't much chance of independent investigative reporting. Where would it be showcased, who would listen, why would anyone listen? I've asked a number of people why they don't seek out alternative information sources. The answer is surprisingly simple and pathetic.

It's too much work. Period.

Why spend extra time and effort not only trying to find alternative sources but then face the burden of determining who is speaking truth and who is lying. We must all remember that each day is a new day and people have a choice to make. Do I fight against the system and relearn, re-question, everything I think I know or do I just go with the flow and accept what is spoon feed to me.

The mainstream media information flow is design to be not only continuous but to maintain continuity with what was said yesterday, last week and last month. The alternative media upsets the applecart and it requires within oneself that quality that is mostly absent today.

Moral courage!

Moral courage to buck the trend, to swim upstream and against the flow. Thus to the extremely frightened and conditioned mind, it is easier to just not fight. For the captured mind, even when the door to the prison is open and the guards are absent, the conditioned mind will not step out. This is why we must slowly educate and encourage them to step out. There are no miracle cures folks, just lots of hard work ahead of us.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:28 | 450990 Mitchman
Mitchman's picture

Great post, CD.  Thank you.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:56 | 451005 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

CD, all Anderson wants to do is to get pictures of suffering animals so he can bombard us with them 24 hours a day to increase his ratings.  I don't need hours of clips repeated hundreds of times a day in order to understand that this is a catastrophe and that I, just like you, and both of us far less than Al Gore, Paul McCartney, Richard Branson or any others belonging to the glitteratti also had a part in this catastrophe.  This is what happens when you enjoy the benefits of cheap energy.  But then again how many trillions of animals each year suffer a brutal death in order to support the food chain?

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 18:23 | 451020 Scout Itout
Scout Itout's picture

But then again how many trillions of animals each year suffer a brutal death in order to support the food chain?

 

As many as it takes!

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:51 | 451522 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

There's room for all God's creatures next to the mashed potatoes.

What? We're not talking about olive or peanut oil? Now I'm outraged...

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:58 | 451644 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

Paul McCartney?!?

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 18:51 | 451032 Island_Dweller
Island_Dweller's picture

CD, all Anderson wants to do is to get pictures of suffering animals so he can bombard us with them 24 hours a day to increase his ratings.

 

then you don't have to watch AC, but to stop him or any other "journalist" from getting information is unacceptable! 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 22:29 | 451218 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"then you don't have to watch..."

That Is Right:
Go to Home Depot... Buy that sledge hammer... Destroy your teevee... Learn to read... and not the NYT or the WashPost...

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:06 | 451653 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

somehow, the wife and i just sort of "drifted away" from television in '05.

the level of unreality/BS of tv news in particular had the most to do with it...but even the dramas seemed to be getting more derivative, "the simpsons" was getting tired. The other shit on da tube 'mo snarkier, harder and crass (like the obese tattooed populace-"Fuck obesity! dbl FUCK tattoos!!)

Was it always thus for the People of the Samizdat?

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 15:10 | 451952 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

I am in my mid late 40's and owned a TV for all of 6 months.  The town I lived in had limited choices of channels which were all pathetic.  I was spending hours scrolling thru channels hoping to find somthing interesting.  When I get in a hotel room I find the TV is a distraction and a waste of time.  Also to quote the great P. Floyd " xxx channels of shit on the TV to choose from" 

At least with the internet the IQ of what I view is higher.  

I think both with television and the internet there is subliminal programing in the feed.  I know for a fact this is done in print advertizing so its not a stretch to believe there is at least some in other media.  

kill your TV 

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 08:00 | 452824 Rick64
Rick64's picture

 +1M to all the above. Kill the tv and watch your intelligence increase dramatically.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 20:35 | 451085 seventree
seventree's picture

This is what happens when you enjoy the benefits of cheap energy

How many times must we be subjected to the "False Choice" argument: Either -- we allow industries to destroy anything in their path, to take insane cost-shaving risks that we all end up paying the price for when they fail -- or -- we simply give up all modern civilization and technology, starving and cowering in the dark.

BULLSHIT! This is such transparent sophistry that a third grader could see through it. But supposedly intelligent adults repeat it over and over.

Now that one such operation has gone worse than anyone anticipated, we have a joint BP/CG security blanket thrown over it. Not to avoid overexposure of suffering sea life (I mean god it's getting so tiresome to look at) but to protect us all from the burden of knowing all the ugly details and being forced to think about them.

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:54 | 451930 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

Sorry captain.  JUNK.

 

This did not need to happen in order to have cheap energy which I enjoy.  It happened because a major oil company was cheap lazy and corrupt.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 18:50 | 451030 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

I probably should have said this sooner, but I love it when you pop in and add so much to the  conversations.  Thank you.

Years ago I was on the phone with an associate who was visiting our vendors in the Chicago area.  She was driving and yells, "I don't know where the hell I'm going!  I'm supposed to be going North and I think I'm going East!" I asked her what road she was on.  She said  Interstate 80.  I said you're going either East or West.  She said, "How the hell do you know that!!"  I said even numbers go East and West and odd numbers go North and South. She yells again, "How the hell can I be 45 fucking years old and not fucking know that!"

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 19:21 | 451044 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"She yells again, "How the hell can I be 45 fucking years old and not fucking know that!"

That statement says so much and yet the real question is, did she ever take the next step and find out why she didn't know what she should have known? This is where the moral courage comes into play. Anyone can, and often does, open their eyes and see, of only for brief moments.

Where we go from that point defines us as individuals and as a collective. When I talk about moral courage, I'm not necessarily talking about standing up to the external machine. I'm talking about standing up to the personal unknowns and finding the personal courage to take just one more step forward.

And after that, each day, each time, taking another step forward and another and another. The first one is always the hardest and sometimes the moral courage is initially lacking. But desperation for something, anything, different is an acceptable substitute. Once the first step has been overcome, a little bit of experience has been created and we find that our world didn't end and it wasn't as painful as we imagined.

We must first find this moral courage in ourselves. Only then can we be an example for those who will follow. And they will follow because this time, this insanity has played out and is coming to an end. Who will join together as we enter a brave new world where we find the inner strength and peace that has always been there, waiting to be released?

It's there folks. It's always been there. The powers that be know this and it is the one thing that keeps them up at night. Isn't it ironic that the very power that frightens them so much is denied by those who actually posses it, you and I. At least someone has faith in us. But not for long will we be without faith and belief in ourselves. It is inevitable that this insanity comes to an end and we overcome our on roadblocks.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 20:00 | 451074 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

:) !!!!

CD, you are so correct about courage.  But when it is time to go there is no doorway back.  There is only the path and the divergence from the norm or what we thought was the norm.  It is scary, but you meet people along the way and help people along the way.

 

Who am I? (A place to start).

 

"The place that you are right now God circled on a map for you." - Hafiz

 

"Out beyond the ideas of rightdoing and wrongdoing,

There is a field,  I'll meet you there,

When the soul lays down in that grass,

The world is too full to talk about,

Ideas, language, even the phrase each other,

Doesn't make any sense." - Rumi

 

These words from Sufi sages are comfort along the road that offers little comfort at times.

 

Everyone is blessed, even the squid.  How could you stand where you stand and be you, without the dutiful squid?

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 20:42 | 451120 Arius
Arius's picture

CD - perhaps, you are correct to expect a bit more of people who come to ZeroHedge, but in general people will find the moral courage when they run out of bread...otherwise, they will be just sheep...thats what history tells us...i think

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 22:13 | 451167 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

It must start somewhere. Why not here?

And yes, I do expect more of Zero Hedge posters. Perhaps I ask too much? Ultimately we will act like we have nothing left to lose once we have nothing left to lose. I know we can act before we get to this point. I know we are capable of acting before we get to this point. I'm personally acting before we get to this point. Who else is willing to act before we get to this point?

I'm not asking anyone to move the mountain, only to be responsible for your piece of the puzzle and maybe that of one friend, family member or complete stranger. Who will be the first if everyone is waiting for someone else to go first?

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 08:24 | 451487 Arius
Arius's picture

agree - thanks for your contributions, really enjoyed your 5 pieces, have them in my favorites to read them again...

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:24 | 451593 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Cognitive Dissonance

Dude your own family rejected your approach to raising your child.
If they don't trust you and your opinions why the fuck should total strangers?
After all they know what kind of person you are and how limited your intelligence.

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 16:12 | 452037 Scooby Dooby Doo
Scooby Dooby Doo's picture

Ouch, diss'en the Dis. Let's see the defense.

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:10 | 452299 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

 Barely legible drivel.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 08:06 | 452830 Rick64
Rick64's picture

If they don't trust you and your opinions why the fuck should total strangers?

 If having your family believe in your ideas or philosophy is a prerequisite to being validated and accepted then many wise people would be doomed.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 19:47 | 451064 brown_hornet
brown_hornet's picture

Its a good thing your colleague wasn't on I-90 or 94 because for more than 30 miles they run north-south thru the city

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:58 | 451529 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Good thing she wasn't on I-195 (RI/MA), that puppy goes East/West.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 19:38 | 451059 FoodTiger
FoodTiger's picture

WTF

I went to sleep on Earth last night and woke up on Bizarro World.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 19:41 | 451060 seventree
seventree's picture

Thad Allen works for the US government, right? Or is he a sleeper agent embedded by the UK?

Because as far as I can tell, the US Coast Guard is just moonlighting as private security for BP.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:30 | 450946 buzlightening
buzlightening's picture

Sure this is explicative from FKNNezs!  http://main.fknnewz.com/blog/?p=1488  What a 2 minute segment to bring on and celebrate the 4th!!  Makes my blood boil and want to be certain the US is void of rat basturds waving the AmeriCON'd flag of freedumb to further goons world wide agenda for rule!  World wider goons want it all and run it from money to power to one size fits all the people of the world regime!!  I think not as long as I live!!  Any one else want our AmeriCON'd back and feel similarly!!  Rat bastard lil scamBO now has power to pull the plug on the net and it'll be used soon!!  Can't let the sheeple know our tyrannical leaders are ravenous wolves!  

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:38 | 450951 Au Member
Au Member's picture

I like santelli but he said in the interview that the fed is a govt agency. Rick- WTF are you talking about, it's a private bank fleecing the 'we the people' for it's shareholders IE the banks that are getting the free cash now at the discount window.

Maybe GE is a govt agency also Rick.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:04 | 450964 Mitchman
Mitchman's picture

With all due respect, you are caviling.  There was a time, prior to the Greenspan/Berbungler years when the Fed was thought of as an entity independent of the administration.  Sadly, that is no more.  IMHO, they are an arm of the Treasury.

GE would not exist were it not for all of the Government guarantees of their commercial paper when the CP market froze as well as the government guarantee (explicit and implicit) of their asset backed paper.  In addition, back in the days when they were a Aaa rated company (and we all know what THAT is worth) their web site that catered to individual investors was making statements selling their paper that should have been shut down by both the SEC and the FTC.

So yes, GE is a government agency and a mouthpiece of the government through its ownership of CNBS.  And, by the way, as has been amply demonstrated, a company entirely built n accounting to make Andy Fastow blush and as much of a Aaa, Aa or anything else as Greece was a Aaa in November, 2009.

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:27 | 451596 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Mitch, YES!

"GE would not exist were it not for all of the Government guarantee..."

But, lest we forget, there was also Mr. Oracle of Omaha, ready to bend Immelt and gang over the table for that week's payroll.  What was it? +/- $5BB with annual payout at 18% forever?  More or less that.

Can't blame poor Jeff, after Welch had been stealing from GE Re for so many years.  Barron's Cover, 12/26/05 and the hilarious letters that followed.

- Ned

 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:58 | 450956 Muir
Muir's picture

Bullshit.

I love it when I can disagree with previous 34 posters.

One question.

Where was Mr. Santelli's outrage of TARP, AIG backdoor bailout of GS, FASB's mark-to-as_you_please, various FED lending facilities?

Since I do not watch CNBC too much, (watch Bloomberg on mute) maybe I missed it.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:04 | 450967 banksterhater
banksterhater's picture

He's talked against all those at some time or another. He knows corruption and fraud at every turn & says it.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:19 | 450984 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

That's funny.  I watch CNBC on mute and I have no idea what's going on on Bloomberg although unlike you, I don't claim to know what's happening on a station I don't watch.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 18:26 | 451017 Muir
Muir's picture

 

Nothing funny about it (ESP or otherwise) I said: "Since I do not watch CNBC too much, (watch Bloomberg on mute) maybe I missed it (and was being somewhat facetious at that.)

 

But I noticed that none of the mad tea-hatters answered my simple question:

Where was Mr. Santelli's outrage of TARP, AIG backdoor bailout of GS, FASB's mark-to-as_you_please, various FED lending facilities?

You wanna give it a try smart guy?

 

 

(and yes, I know he's "mentioned it." I said "outrage" as he does when cherring the tea-hatters)

 

I hope all those that praised Mr. Santelli have net assets North of 10M, otherwise, it seems idiotic to ask that the bank be secured AFTER it was robbed!

 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 19:04 | 451042 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

Great minds think alike;>)

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 19:48 | 451063 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Best I can recall there was no Tea Party per se until Rick went off.

Just everyone sittin around saying to themselves WTF? Am I the only one who see's the insanity of this?

Part of free market capitalism is destruction...something to be embraced.

A self cleansing mechanism where those who have made bad (or stupid) decisions are purged from the system...the shorts make their money...secured bond holders take a haircut...the unsecured bonds are wiped out just like stockholders.

There is a good argument to be made that we haven't had free market capitalism for a long time, but just because we went away from it doesn't mean it doesn't work as advertised.

TBTF is probably the best thing to ever happen to us if we can just see it for what it is (economic Fascism in my view) and open our eyes to what is right in front of us. 

 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 21:44 | 451175 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

Stop fascism. End the Fed. Break up the big banks. Regulate lobbyists and campaign contributions. Stop naked short selling. Banish frontrunning. Stop teenage girls from saying "like" so much.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 22:33 | 451223 nmewn
nmewn's picture

It's a long road back and it always starts with the first step.

Education being the key...I move for the latter first or the first first ;-)

It's coming...I can feel it...million's of Howard Beales...it's coming.

In the meantime, do what we always do at this time, celebrate that we were not born in China, North Korea, Venezuela or some other God foresaken place.

Enjoy the fourth, it was a gift.

SeeYa

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 17:24 | 452143 Muir
Muir's picture

Watched the video http://vodpod.com/watch/1377927-rick-santelli-objects-to-rushed-tarp-on-92608

"I am not making a judgement call either way." 0:58 into it

As to the second video

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200903170007

Nothing there.

"Rick Santelli objects to rushed TARP on 9/26/08" (first video) is mistitled. He does no such thing.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 21:34 | 451169 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

So, I guess that means we see if that courage that CD wrote about is exercised?

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 23:36 | 451283 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

True. I have made efforts in my way. The collective conscious of people at sights like Zero has definitely affected main stream sentiment of late. Of course, its hard for the goverment to bullshit all the people all the time. 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:54 | 450960 VicariouslySelf...
VicariouslySelfActualized's picture

I get so tired of hearing that across the board tax cuts are the answer. Talk about flawed logic, if CNBC is anything, it's the network for protecting the wealth of the rich.  Perhaps tax cuts for small business might be good, but given that our tax rates in the US are currently 26th out of 30th in the OECD, they hardly seem too high. They were higher under Clinton, and the economy didn't shudder to a halt.

Does anyone seriously believe that anyone in the wealthiest 10 percent need a tax cut? Can you really argue that would create jobs?  It's bullshit, pure and simple. The top 1 percent already owns 50 percent of all stocks and bonds, and about 34 percent of the nation's wealth. They hardly need more.

Want to cut spending and cut the deficit? Go back to the tax rates we had before Bush and bring the troops home. Then cut the defense budget to a realistic level, say about $350 billion per year.  That will fix a lot of ills.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:16 | 450978 thesapein
thesapein's picture

He said NOT to focus on tax cuts. Cut spending.

I like taxes because that is what drove away the mafia who could no longer compete with state thugs.

Not funny? No, it's not because what we have in place of the mafia, today, is much worse. And you are here to prove it.

 

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 00:04 | 451311 count_zero
count_zero's picture

I know an older guy from Pittsburgh. He said people payed "tax" to the local mafia back in the day and people preferred the mafia's justice. Similar thing is happening in Afghanistan. Some people prefer the Taliban's justice to the government's.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 16:59 | 450965 goodrich4bk
goodrich4bk's picture

If spending cuts are his most important message, why doesn't he tell us which spending he would cut?  Everybody is already for cutting "spending", so this "message" isn't very illuminating no matter how loud it is shouted.  If he doesn't want to name programs or categories, an alternative message would be to explain what percentage of across-the-board spending he believes is appropriate and why.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:24 | 450986 thesapein
thesapein's picture

It's like trying to cut grass with nail clippers.

Just give me big riding lawnmower, and I'll do what needs to be done.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 21:36 | 451171 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

You might want to try using daisy cutters, for the size of the job. 

 

Yes, the kind that come from 30,000 feet.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:01 | 450966 poopdeville
poopdeville's picture

Government investment in infrastructure has a multiplier greater than one, up to a point of diminishing returns. Indeed, the government can even profit from such investments.  How much did the economy grow because of the creation of a national highway system?  Because of the Hoover dam?  The production of thousands of factories during WW2?  Investment in mathematics and basic science education and research during WW2 and after, leading up to the computer and increased efficiency?

Merely spending isn't good enough, though.  It takes wise investment in infrastructure, R&D, and education to make an economy grow.  Building infrastructure is only a wise investment if we need it now, or will need it later and can build it cheaper now than we could later.

Also, diminishing returns ruins Santelli's "perpetual motion machine" counter-factual argument -- his logic is quite convoluted there.  There is no reason to think that there is absolutely no public investment project with positive economic utility.  Just because another national highway system wouldn't be so useful doesn't mean national/regional light rail systems wouldn't be useful.  Lowering the cost of transportation for Californians and other McMansion suburbanites would be a good thing, especially if it can be powered using cheap domestically "produced" nuclear or water energy.  The multiplier for the first investment would be less than one.  The multiplier for the latter would be much greater, as positive economic effects ripple out.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:27 | 450988 Mitchman
Mitchman's picture

I believe Santelli said that Summers believed that the multiplier of government spending was always greater than 1 and if that were so, the he (Santelli) would be in favor of spending $1 trillion an hour.

Thus, I agree with your point about certain infrastructure investments actually having a multiplier greater than 1 (although as we have seen in China where entire cities have been built that now stand empty that is not always so).  

What makes the story of the so-called stimulus bill so bitter is that $787 billion that should have been spent on projects of the type that you advocate was wasted (and not one person can point to a single tangible accomplishment of how the money was spent) and now we are essentially tapped out.  BTW, a fact that Santelli acknowledges. 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 19:46 | 451009 Mark McGoldrick
Mark McGoldrick's picture

I always laugh when I hear about the "multiplier" of government spending.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.  Any sort of government spending is an equation involving division, before anything.

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:08 | 451538 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

poopdeville - that dog stopped hunting. Nate Martin was the first to call it out I believe, where the marginal productivity of debt has turned negative. Permanently so, I'd say. 

http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2010/03/most-important-chart-of-century...

 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:05 | 450968 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Member when he asked the floor who wants to pay for other peoples (overpriced mortgages).   I Cheered, give me an affordable place to live you fucks, I don't give a shit about the trends.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:18 | 450982 ThinkAVP
ThinkAVP's picture

LOL!! YOU WOULD...

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:16 | 450981 pros
pros's picture

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

Rick Santelli.....

 

a fool if ever there was one

 

 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:28 | 450989 thesapein
thesapein's picture

a Shakespearian fool, maybe.

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 23:13 | 451257 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"Better a witty Fool, than a foolish Wit!" -- Shakespeare

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 00:11 | 451317 thesapein
thesapein's picture

and we must'n be afraid of being made the fool every once in awhile.

 

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 19:22 | 451053 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

yea - it's so blatantly obvious - just like your comment reeks of intelligence and thoughtfulness

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 17:32 | 450993 optionblast
optionblast's picture

Rick Santelli for President..  This is the only person around  (FOX, CNBC or even the Gov't) that understands the reality of what is going on in the world. 

Austerity measures in the U.S.?? Get Congress to give themselves paycuts...

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