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Ron Paul: "America's AAA Rating Not Worth Saving" Because "We Are Insolvent"

Tyler Durden's picture


The man who yesterday got into a heated argument with the chairsatan on whether gold is or isn't money (a Bernanke response already mocked to death so we will leave it alone), shares his take on the most recent bout of scaremongering by Moody's (with S&P doing in private today what Moody's did in public yesterday) with Bloomberg TV's Erik Schatzker. When asked if the American AAA rating is worth saving, his reply: "probably not. I think if you had a market evaluation on this issue, it should have marked down a long time ago." The reason the downgrade will come regardless is that "ultimately that is going to happen anyway because we are insolvent." The big picture: "I think it is part of the game to make sure everyone is fearful so we
continue this process. Long term, I think raising the debt limit is a
negative because it delays the inevitable. It will give us much bigger
problems down the road. Today and tomorrow, if Moody's does not lower
the bond rating, it will be helpful in the short run. In the long run,
it will be more devastating because Congress will go back to their old
habits again." Said otherwise: Moody's is concerned about US debt now, but is not concerned if US were more tomorrow - sheer idiocy.

Full Bloomberg TV:

Paul on whether the AAA rating is worth saving:

"Probably not. I think if you had a market evaluation on this issue, it should have marked down a long time ago. I always wonder about these ratings. Bond ratings before the crash three years ago were not very helpful. Sometimes I wonder whether this is more of a political theater to build up the fear. First, we won't be able to write the checks for Social Security and the next thing there'll be a down rating of bonds."

"The market does the final rating. I think our solvency in our dollar is better rated by the price of gold rather than what Moody's will say. In the short run, what Moody's does will have an effect."

On a potential situation where Moody's cuts the AAA rating and whether the U.S. can afford it given that entitlements and discretionary spending are already trying to be cut:

"That will move it along, but ultimately that is going to happen anyway because we are insolvent. We play along with this game with Social Security. We know it is insolvent. We know that if it were an insurance company, it would be in big trouble. It is true that this rating will have an effect, but it is a short-term effect. Ultimately, the fundamentals show this country is bankrupt."

"If they do this, this will be very significant, but I think it is part of the game to make sure everyone is fearful so we continue this process. Long term, I think raising the debt limit is a negative because it delays the inevitable. It will give us much bigger problems down the road. Today and tomorrow, if Moody's does not lower the bond rating, it will be helpful in the short run. In the long run, it will be more devastating because Congress will go back to their old habits again."

On whether the tradeoff in favor of the AAA rating is worth making:

"On the short run it is, but in the long run it makes things worse."


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Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:32 | 1455905 Dreadker
Dreadker's picture

How did someone make it into congress with such near truths as this?  lol

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:54 | 1455986 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Elected. Maybe I not understand your comment. I agree with RP. Country is broke, why rating agency's think good thing to add more debt. We watch news last night you see all the people living above their means screaming about default. It's how you know deficit needs cut.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:58 | 1456020 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

I think it is possible that Dreadker's comment is sarcastic, given that all the other congresspissants speak far from the truth.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:53 | 1456543 Juan Wild
Juan Wild's picture

               Ron Paul = Main St




SIMPLE ENOUGH? Remember that in 2012.

now junk me, heathen bankers and globalist scum

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:01 | 1456328 WSP
WSP's picture

Ratings agencies are just as corrupt as the politicians, corporate execs and corporate run media---their only goal is money, and it is rarely good for business to do or say anything "negative".   It simply is not their interests and the only reason why Moody's is saying anything is to try and protect what little shred of integrity they have.  Of course, intelligent people know the ratings agencies are corrupt liars, but believe it or not there are still ignorant fools out there that think ratings mean something other than corrupt political theatre.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:36 | 1456474 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

they are all the same people they have all the same interests. Same thing as any regulatory agency these days and the industry they "regulate."

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:42 | 1457471 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

whstlblwr, how is the kung pao chicken today?


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:03 | 1456043 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

A 1% minority within a democratic system isn't exactly a threat.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:16 | 1456109 ThoughtCriminal
ThoughtCriminal's picture

i bet RonPaul doesn't have a key to the Capitol-Hill private toilets anymore

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:43 | 1456507 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Deliver over 4000 of your constituents.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:33 | 1455911 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Don't let a little thing like insolvency ruin a perfectly good credit rating.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:16 | 1456389 Quaderratic Probing
Quaderratic Probing's picture

How do you make money on 3-4% 30 year bonds? Drop the AAA rating forcing pensions and insurance companies to sell the debt at fire sale prices. Take the face down to 20 cents on the dollar and you buy them up 4% becomes 20% for 30 years.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 14:31 | 1456972 MrSteve
MrSteve's picture

At 20 cents on the dollar, the Treasury could just as easily reissue the bonds as zero coupon bonds and there you go, imputed interest generating real tax revenue and it only costs the Treasury ink and paper for the reissue.

The problem isn't the bond price,(unless you own it) its the combined interest that Uncle Sam can't pay off. The zero coupon bonds make everything dandy for the Treasury because they act like a Federal Reserve Note which also pays no interest. The zero coups are an untapped source of refunding currency.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:17 | 1456397 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture 50 years we can squeeze it out of your granddaughter.

She'll be good for it......right?


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:34 | 1455914 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Well said RP.

Fuck Off Moody's

SEC Refuses To Sue Moody's Over Computer "Glitch" Which Inflated Ratings By 1.5-3.5 Notches On Thousands Of CDOs

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:35 | 1455916 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

live for the moment, bitchezz!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:03 | 1456039 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Repost from Cali Debt Thread...

[Doorbell rings, girl opens door]

Moody Steel: Hello, miss, did you order a ratings downgrade?

Pet Chulent: Why yes I did. Come on in.

Moody Steel: Do you want a long downgrade?

Pet Chulent: Ooooh! Really, I just want a little one until my sugar daddy comes back with another big stimulus package.

Moody Steel: Well, all I have is this AA.

Pet Chulent:'s so big and threatening. It's perfect!

Moody Steel: I thought you might like it.

Pet Chulent: Can you just wave it around without know...finishing the job?

Moody Steel: Well, we run the risk of making a mess of things, but I can give it a shot.

Pet Chulent: Let me open the curtains...I want everyone to see it.

Moody Steel: Well, aren't you a naughty little bitch?

[Cue music ]

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:12 | 1456089 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture


That's exactly the music I heard in my head when I read the post.

Down boy, down.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:35 | 1455917 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Yeah, and how is that someone insolvent must raise his debt limit??

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:36 | 1455925 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Logic and clarity of thought are not welcome in this discussion.

Be gone heretic.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:39 | 1456486 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:01 | 1457311 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

2nd place comment reply (in context division) of the week. :)

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:39 | 1455941 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

Moody's says 'accumulate more debt or we'll lower your credit rating'. That's some Alice in Wonderland shit right there!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:43 | 1455959 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Silly rabbit, that's high finance and the 'real' world.

Only Alice had a problem with Wonderland. Maybe the problem is Alice and not them.


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:51 | 1455994 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

Unfortunately, the Laws of Physics apply to all things in the real world, even Economics. Especially, the Laws concerning Gravity.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:56 | 1456006 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Not when Wonderland has created a time space distortion thingy that makes gravity transitory.

Bankster: "Live for today. That's all you got until I come to take your home and your first born. Actually, we already have you first born by the balls. So all that's left is your home and your sovereignty."

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:18 | 1456120 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

First born indeed. Some things never change.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:52 | 1456285 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

If one can study 'religious texts" without confirmation bias or the actual need to 'see' in them what you want to see, then there are other possible explanations for many 'stories' we read in them.

There was a lot of turmoil in the Middle East around the time of Christ including Roman control and........wait for it.........taxes and who would and should be taxed. The Jews were promised they would not be taxed by the Romans, that any tax they paid would be used locally. Then that changed. There was currency debasement happening in the known world at that time. Rome was extended and needed money so they debased the currency and taxed like hell.

I have often wondered about the story of the taking of the first born during that night. The first born always inherited the father's property. With the first born taken, what happened to the property? I won't go into the details. But we all need to expand our ancient worldview beyond what we have been taught.  

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:25 | 1456430 DosZap
DosZap's picture


I have often wondered about the story of the taking of the first born during that night. The first born always inherited the father's property. With the first born taken, what happened to the property? I won't go into the details. But we all need to expand our ancient worldview beyond what we have been taught.

Well, depends, did the first born of the Egyptians have the same traditions?,because their first born were the only one's taken.

Also, if the loss of the first born did happen, it automatically went to the next born,the majority but not all.(for the Izzy's at least)

All children received a portion, lions share to first born.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:07 | 1457325 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Depends upon the law. Egyptian law. Roman law. Jewish law. Jewish religious law. And so on. Which law was enforced? How consistently was it enforced? Lot's of questions that are answered in the "official public myth history books" that I don't always expect to be telling me the truth.

Don't forget that what we read today is not what always actually happened. Our history books for the last 100 years state many things that are bullshit and not true. The same thing hold strue, only worse, if you go back 2,000 years. So when we read that the 'law' was this or that, it might be true and it might not be true.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:03 | 1456583 Juan Wild
Juan Wild's picture

I love to read that ancient stuff. Surely there is nothing new under the sun. Except for Ron Paul! <Putting on my kevlar anti-junk armor>  

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:56 | 1456309 highwaytoserfdom
highwaytoserfdom's picture

Sorry got to do it..  It is refreshing to have people listen to Ron with  words like truthfull.  I am really tired of hearing quirky, odd, unusual, eccentric, idiosyncratic, curious, peculiar, unpredictable,  singular, fanciful, whimsical, capricious, offbeat, out there or tin foil hat descriptions.     The usury sector and "on the one hand economist"  jerk off's selling their book is disgusting.   GO GET EM RON...   MSM is holding back serious issues.   Corker shouldbe in jail and after killing s 604 last year he say "clip the wings of Fed".. How we elect guys with bond funding scandals is beyond me...  Boy Corker's up in 2012 trying to save his A$$..      You know this is the first time in year that I really think RP has a chance.. 



"The Rothschilds, and that class of money-lenders of whom they are the representatives and agents -- men who never think of lending a shilling to their next-door neighbors, for purposes of honest industry, unless upon the most ample security, and at the highest rate of interest -- stand ready, at all times, to lend money in unlimited amounts to those robbers and murderers, who call themselves governments, to be expended in shooting down those who do not submit quietly to being robbed and enslaved."


by: Lysander Spooner
(1808-1887) Political theorist, activist, abolitionist
Source: "No Treason #6" (1870)


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:27 | 1456436 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

So all that's left is your home and your sovereignty.

You get the irony award for today.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:40 | 1456500 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

But what are the laws concerning black holes?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:01 | 1456035 samsara
samsara's picture

We just need to 'Run Faster' to stay where we are.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:35 | 1456198 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

it takes a special type of mushroom and a phd to understand the logic

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:11 | 1456368 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Don't bogart those mushrooms, but keep the PhD.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:52 | 1455990 Hard1
Hard1's picture

Dude, the debt limit is not the cause of the problem.  The idiotic congresspeople agree to spend on everything, agree to extend tax cuts (that's their revenue).  That is what causes debt and makes the debt reach the idiotic limit.  Household example.  You own $30k on credit cards and every month you spend $2k more than you earn.  You are commited not to own more than $32 k.  Next month you spend another 2K above what you earn, soy you reach what you are commited to.. Instead of not spending so much th next month or making a budget to correct decide to default on your credit card!!! simply brilliant how the US gov't works now!!!!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:27 | 1456156 V in PA
V in PA's picture

I wish people would stop using the term revenue when talking about taxes. The correct term for stolen money (at the point of a gun) is loot. Revenue is obtained through the free exchange of commodities.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:45 | 1456249 Hard1
Hard1's picture

OK, correction, the deficit is the difference between what they spend on their lavish parties and what they loot from us.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:14 | 1456098 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

crazy -  and best buy of all places just cancelled my card (from CHASE) and had no late payments or anything just a $1000 balance that had those 2 year 0% interest rates..  so i guess they felt they weren't ever going to make money off me so turn it off..



Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:36 | 1455923 km4
km4's picture

Ron Paul Exclusive: Who’s Regulating Washington?

money quote....

“We have drifted because we had so much prosperity, but we can’t drift forever. We can’t live on borrowed money and printed money forever "

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:36 | 1455924 ReallySparky
ReallySparky's picture

Enough Already, can everyone wake up now?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:37 | 1455926 Cdad
Cdad's picture

As I see it, the US debt situation is in a lose lose situation.  If Congress fails to lift the debt ceiling, debt is downgraded on the implied default.  If Congress capitulates and raises the ceiling with paultry cuts [in planned spending increases], the debt is downgraded on the unsustainable nature of spending and more accrued debt.

I don't see the exit door on any of this short of massive slashing [on the order of 50% of the entire Federal budget] in spending, and we all know Congress is too weak to take such an action.

As the brotherhood is fond of saying, and in its truthy fashion, we're screwed.  The downgrades are coming.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:48 | 1455979 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Agreed ... in fact the ratings agencies said as much.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:53 | 1456000 Deepskyy
Deepskyy's picture

On the surface you would think so, but considering the nature of shoddy, and/or outright fraudulent book-keeping by every single member of the bankster cartel who knows what kind of smoke and mirrors shit they will trot out next to ensure that stocks climb ever higher and the "experts" on the Blowhorn and the rest of the MSM tell us how awesome the economy is doing.


Bring on the zombie apocalypse.  I'm tired of treading water.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:57 | 1456023 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture


You old coot, you still hanging around here? I thought the trolls had carried you off and had a feast.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:05 | 1456053 Cdad
Cdad's picture

I will not be giving up my front row seat on the collapsing Ponzi American system...not until my prostate gland entirely swallows my liver.  At that point, I'll have to hang it up.

Besides, I am not edible.  The toxins in my body will poison any troll trying to feast on me.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:17 | 1456114 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Damn the trolls torpedoes, full speed ahead.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:05 | 1456055 nedwardkelly
nedwardkelly's picture

To figure out the most likely outcome, just take a guess at what allows them to maintain the status quo for the longest.

My bet is it will get raised, with pathetic but 'symbolic' cuts, along with some tax increases. Next time it comes time to raise it again they'll make sure there's something a bit more interesting for the media to talk about so it just gets passed like it has the last X times.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:04 | 1456338 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

This.  If any pain is to be felt, it will be projected/prospective and implemented far enough into the future that even they don't believe will matter, given the collapse in the meantime.  Sometimes, they're actually successful enough in their can kicking endeavors to surpass their lofty estimates...  and then they have to deal with shit/plug holes.  They're running out of road though.

In the end, we'll get an increase + spending cuts at a future date + the retirement of a few ceremonial tax deductions (again, probably at a far removed future date)...

I'm waiting for them to tax capital gains at wage income rates.  GULP!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:04 | 1456329 striving4simple
striving4simple's picture

don't forget, with the ponzi accounting between the fed and the treasury, once the treasury is paying enough interest to the fed, the treasury will start making money

Lastly, keep in mind, that the Fed is now implicitly funding the US deficit: as it purchases more and more bonds, the interest that is owed to the Fed is subsequently remitted to the Treasury as an actual revenue item, completing the world's most unprecedented Ponzi scheme constructed since the days of Rudolf von Havenstein.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:37 | 1455928 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

Ron Paul, the only man in the room Bernanke is afraid to take questions from.

Yes, U.S. AAA rating should have been downgraded long ago.



Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:27 | 1456438 r101958
r101958's picture

100 % Agree.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:33 | 1456464 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Founders Keeper,

Reason is, HE knows their game inside out..............he only ask's questions like this to educate the other sheeple sitting around him.

Knowledge is of great value, in the mind of an honest, and moral person.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:38 | 1455931 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

I'm going to miss him when he retires....that exchange yesterday was and shall always be a classic.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:00 | 1456032 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Miss him when he retires in 2020 after his 2 terms as President?

Ron Paul is the Frontrunner.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:38 | 1455932 docj
docj's picture

Well, he's right.

Pity he's not in a position, like you know CONgressman or something, where he can do something about it.

Oh, wait...

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:57 | 1456022 Sig Sauer
Sig Sauer's picture

1 vs (434 + 100) ain't easy to overcome.  do a little research and you'll see he's been warning of this for 30 years.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:35 | 1456203 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

Indeed, here is an interview from 23 years ago. Hasn't changed his tune one bit.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:25 | 1456432 I Am The Unknow...
I Am The Unknown Comic's picture

bravo Baby - thanks for the clip

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:46 | 1456513 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

they can't stand someone who won't shut up and can't be bought. In the past I guess they considered him harmless because the evidence was less blatant. These days, I'm surprised he hasn't had an accident.  

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:38 | 1455934 jm
jm's picture

Nice for this guy that he can pump a gold stash all by hisself. 

Sad that this kind of jawboning/sharking passes for patriotism. 

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:57 | 1456017 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

OK, we get it. You voted for teleprompter boy.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:15 | 1456101 jm
jm's picture

When are patsies like you going to get it? 

Nobody in politics cares about you or your pocketbook.  They care about themselves and their pocketbook. 

Saying the US is insolvent doesn't necessarily make it so. But it sure can push godl higher if you get to spew an opinion from some financial committee.   

Ron Paul is to Bloomberg what Charlie Sheen was to Twitter.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:21 | 1456138 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Brief Overview of Congressman Paul’s Record:

  • He has never voted to raise taxes.
  • He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
  • He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
  • He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
  • He has never taken a government-paid junket.
  • He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
  • He voted against the Patriot Act.
  • He voted against regulating the Internet.
  • He voted against the Iraq war.
  • He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
  • He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:36 | 1456208 jm
jm's picture

If he actually thought the US is insolvent (it is not), then he should compromise on raising taxes, or at least work to rid the tax system of loopholes that allow billions to be parked non-taxed offshore. His ideology will always get in the way.   

As for the rest, I see some good and some bad, but overall an unwillness to see other points of view and to compromise.  If (I said "if") I am right, this is exactly the kind of cold virtue that makes the world cringe when such people get into positions of authority. 

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:03 | 1456331 fallout11
fallout11's picture

As was covered succinctly by Eureka and Blunderdog yesterday (Guest Post: Poverty In America Part 1), Ron Paul is not really a libertarian, his ideology gets in the way of belief in real freedom.  If you don't go all in, you're not much of a libertarian.  That said, he's still better than most US politicians.  The lesser evil and all that.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:49 | 1456528 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

are your perceptions of politicians as accurate as insolvency? 

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:09 | 1456604 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

The US has a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Period.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 14:39 | 1457043 JacksLackofSurprise
JacksLackofSurprise's picture

His “ideology” is to eliminate both taxes and government (dis)services and promote personal liberties.    

His voting record is spot on with public statements and campaign platforms.  A politician who does what he says.

That so many of “We the Sheeple” find these views quirky and odd is the primary reason we will continue to GIVE our liberties away.


We may pretend to be at a tipping point but nothing will change even after the election/re-appointment exercise in November 2012.  All the same fools, perhaps a few with different names will be back because the politician who raises the most money wins the nominations; we are left with a choice of the “lesser of two evils.”  Maybe, just maybe, by July 4, 2013, the thinking minority will have had enough-- Independence Day, the day we demand our Liberties returned.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:30 | 1456173 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Saying the US is insolvent doesn't necessarily make it so


No that would be the -$14.3 trillion dollars we have, plus the accumulating deficit, to prop up old ideas, rather than forcing people to innovate out of necessity.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:37 | 1456482 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture



Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:08 | 1456074 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Ron has been long physical since it became legal again.  I doubt he needs a "pump".

You be sure to hoard those paper FRN's, ok?  I hear BAC is a great place to keep them safely.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:23 | 1456139 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

 jm You sir, are a Dipshit.....

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:54 | 1456292 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture


Today was my first two junks on anyone that I can recall since joining ZH.

Now I feel like a meanie.

Thanks jm, you bonkhead!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:24 | 1457203 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

He's a Socialist, what do you expect?


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:38 | 1455937 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Reagan proved that deficits don't matter

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:37 | 1456216 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Dick "Deficits don't matter" Cheney did as well.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:39 | 1455939 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

pretty much the same reasoning i came up with regarding my FICO score

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:42 | 1455956 HTZMR
HTZMR's picture

So much for his next presidential campaign. This will be used against him in some sleazy attempt to paint him un-american. what patriot would ever dare call his country bankrupt? Too bad, that kind of honesty is just what the country needs.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:45 | 1455968 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Fucking Bloomberg deliberately used a picture of ron making him look like he has lost all of his teeth...

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:01 | 1456036 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

The Empire's vassals and sycophants do this all the time.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:46 | 1455971 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

insolvency ... Let me get this straight. A senator running for president can say America is insolvent (which I agree with) and no one even bats an eye and on top of all of this the market goes higher. Ok

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:48 | 1455978 Woodyg
Woodyg's picture

We're insolvent for 3 reasons primarily: 1. MIC gone wild, 5 + wars and 1000 + overseas military bases, 2. Wacked tariff rates where a 2% tariff on their goods coming into the usa and a 25% tariff on our goods attempting to enter foreign markets 3. Wacked tax rates where a billion+ income per year is taxed at 15% with No Social Security deduction But regular wages for the working stiff is taxed at a higher rate PLUS the fica tax that is spent in the general budget is a Tax Increase for the low income earners. Fix those 3 things and our finances would be fine. Well OK - and bankrupt the top 5 banks in the USA and throw their top executives and top 3 shareholders in jail!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:07 | 1456067 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Not exactly, IMO.  You are listing symptoms, not a cause.  The reason we are insolvent... all "money" in our system is created as an issuance of debt with interest connected to that debt.  The problem: there is no "money" in the system to pay the interest on that debt so new debt needs to be issued to allow old debt to roll forward.  This grows geometrically until the debt in the system overload the productive capacity of the system.  That debt can end up saddled around individuals, corporations or the government... the system doesn't care, as long as debt expands.  Game over.  Collapse of our monetary system has begun.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:17 | 1456392 striving4simple
striving4simple's picture

The public fool system does not teach what the properties of money are.
Nor do they teach that our current financial system does not use money.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:49 | 1455982 Peter K
Peter K's picture

Yep, he's a nutter, but not as insane as the Obamamaniacs who are trying to raise the debt ceiling.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:15 | 1456104 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

What is a "nutter" and how does he qualify as one?  And meanwhile, back at the ranch, were you complaining when it was an R in the whitehouse and the D's that were posturing over not raising the debt limit?  Because Ron Paul was, while the rank and file republican was not.  You are a pawn.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:49 | 1455988 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

"America's AAA Rating Not Worth Saving" ...... maybe the credit rating isn't worth saving, but, the American People sure are worth saving !     why won't they do the right thing & nationalize these banks / wipe them out / let them fail / fire them all .......... why won't they just do the right thing by the American People ....... I know, I'll get junked & laughed at for being so naive & pollyanna.    think about our kids futures, are there no people of integrity left ?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:17 | 1456112 Deepskyy
Deepskyy's picture

Not going to junk you but nationalization is the last thing we want to do in this case.  Nationalization would only consolidate further the power structure of the bankster cartel.  Giving them complete control via our "bought and paid for" central government would be disasterous for liberty and individual freedom.

At this point the only way to return this nation to the principles in which she was founded (principles, not actions to those self hating Americans who want to bitch and moan about the founding fathers as slave owners) is to crash the whole fucking thing and rebuild once the riots stop.


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:42 | 1456242 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

DEEPSKYY ....  i get it now !   but, what happens when people cry out to nationalize the banks, you know that's the normal line of thinking.   until i read your comment, i also thought that nationalizing the banks was the correct thing to do, but a lightbulb went off in my mind when you said it would only consolidate power.   (i'm out of my league here on ZEROHEDGE, but, love the education, it's unbelieveable how much i've learned ! ) .   won't most people demand that these banks be nationalized ?    ........ thank god i accumulated some silver, if i hadn't been reading this website i would never have known or understand.   i am a "reformed sheeple."

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:21 | 1456411 Deepskyy
Deepskyy's picture

I'm sure they will, as the populace at large will always clamor for the "easiest" solution, and since the FDR administration the "easiest" solution has always been to demand our central government do something to ease the pain.

The most odd, and painful truth about our society is that they still retain a healthy disdain and skepticism for the central government with the exception of their own elected representative.  It's always those other assholes in the 535 that are the problem, but my guy is great (mainly because my guy keeps giving me gifts!).  Between this attitude, and the Weapons of Mass Distraction that are trotted out every night on cable TV to keep the J6Ps placated, the only thing that will change our plight is a drastic collapse.  As the killer in Se7en noted, "Wanting people to listen, you can't just tap them on the shoulder anymore. You have to hit them with a sledgehammer."

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:46 | 1456520 Ryman1075
Ryman1075's picture

'grats on waking up lynnybee.

Now go and tell people that you care about.  Most will call you crazy...but some will listen.

People used to call me crazy when I was buying silver @$5 and Gold @$400, now they wish they had listened.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 21:32 | 1458191 samsara
samsara's picture


Give this short one by Martin Armstrong a read.  A great educational piece. 

Highly recommend it(and everything else by Marty)

Gold: The Final Frontier?

other stuff

           And his newest    

Spending vs Systemic Reform

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:26 | 1456154 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

Why don't people do the right thing & quit using the fucking banks...

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:08 | 1456352 fallout11
fallout11's picture

...and a usable, convenient, available, scalable alternative is?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:19 | 1456646 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Typical consumer.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:34 | 1457267 fallout11
fallout11's picture

I'm serious, what is your suggested alternative?

Barter for your Amazon book purchase (no credit cards)?

Mail an envelope of dollars to Ampex for your PM purchases (no wire transfers)?

Give handwritten IOUs to your grocery store for groceries (no checks)?

Canvas your neighbors for business investment money (no business loans)?

Bury your business revenue in a mayonnaise jar in your back yard (no deposits)?

Banking, as much as we hate the shysters, serves a useful purpose, which is why it has been around for as long as it has.  In the old days (pre-1980 fire economy), banks provided basic services, not creative financial investments and similar bullshit. We just need to go back to those days. Eric Janzen (Itulip), Charles Hugh Smith, and Karl Denninger (Market Ticker) have all written on the matter before.

I use a small, local credit union for my banking needs, and have no gripe with them. They serve the local community well and do not make predatory liar loans, fleece customers, or take taxpayer-funded bailouts.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:02 | 1457568 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

I too use a small local credit union which, while offering similar services, is not a bank. I lived for a few years in this country (US) without a bank account and credit cards - it can be done. Characterizing it as inconvenient would be an understatement.

Banks as they exist today are synonymous with organized crime. Banks will not return to the old days, they are rife with multi-generational systemic corruption.

I am not familiar with all of Amazons payment options, but I am guessing alternatives can be found.

I purchase from APMEX without using a credit card. I mail them a "bank" check issued by my credit union for a very small fee.

Cash is accepted at all on my local merchants and barter is not at all unusual.

I have never used bank credit to run my business. Ever. Why would I voluntarily do business with a known criminal enterprise?

My wealth is my business. ;-)

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 13:11 | 1460058 fallout11
fallout11's picture

"My wealth is my business."

As well it should be.  

Btw, I did not junk you. Unfortunately I think that too often folks here tend to want to fight first, and actually discuss second.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:34 | 1457237 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Because 97% of the pop. has forgotten what the right this is.  But you are 100% on the right track with this question..

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:52 | 1455998 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

Posted via Ron Paul's Facebook


QE3 here we come. And gold is responding, shooting way up near all-time highs. Of course I predicted this. Bernanke will destroy the dollar unless he is stopped

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:14 | 1456097 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I was saying yesterday its time for the 'QE on, QE off' season, this switch will be repeatedly thrown many times daily now on out to manipulate whatever they want.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:20 | 1456131 Deepskyy
Deepskyy's picture

And since the Chairsatan stated that there were no immediate plans for more equities heroine in the works the market has gone down like a boozed up prom date after midnight.

Full retard indeed


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:52 | 1455999 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

How very honest and un-McConnellesque of Mr. Paul.  How very sincere, and un-Boehnerish.  How very real, and un-Obooba like.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 10:56 | 1456015 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

Moody's bluff is so obvious. They are being attacked in Europe as an american foreign firm so they used the debt ceiling issue to make a statement and show to Europe that they are not sold to US interest. But of course, this is just smoke as they will never downgrade the US debt until default actually happens. Even their PR is full of bull as they require that a country under "negative watch" should get more indebted as soon as possible.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:04 | 1456050 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

We find ourselves in the same situation Madoff found himself towards the end, where to find the next batch of patsies, and when do we acknowledge the blatantly obvious. Last year the interest on the debt averaged 3%. What happens at 4? 5%? We are close to the point of paying interest and maturing debt from borrowings. At that point it's game over.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:05 | 1456054 defn8Dog
defn8Dog's picture

Bye-bye ole CAPM. To do: identify something risk-free, make a new, better model. RP, the gynecologist from Pittsburgh has spoken!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:07 | 1456062 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

 As usual Ron Paul is about the only elected voice of reality. Sure we are insolvent, anyone who made it through 8th grade math class can run the numbers.

The revenue side is off the table because we have a tanking economy. Less wealth to tax!

Yet obligations of all kinds skyrocket.

So where does this leave the nanny state and the empire? Both are going to go down, it is just that no one but Ron Paul will talk in public about it. This did not happen in 2 years, in 10 year, it clearly began 30 years ago if not earlier. When we accepted the proposition that we need not fund government at the same time we used government spending to juice every sector of the economy. Fed policy was insane as well. It was one massive bubble blowing enterprise. Now the bubble blew up and most Americans are covered in the remains of the exposion.

There is no easy way out, forget that. The social programs are toast and the military industrial complex are toast, and Federal funds to prop up state and local government spending are toast. It will be ugly, only question is when do the major cities start to blow up, like the day the SS and welfare checks don't arrive by electronic tranfer into people's accounts. LA riots on steroids!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:40 | 1456499 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Never ever forget:

Nobody is that stupid.  It is not accidental idiocy.

The purpose behind the whole thing is ...

You Owe That Debt.  Forever.  You will be dependent on them for food and energy and any hope of getting a job, and you will willingly run along in your hamster wheel forever trying to pay off an unpayable debt.  Your Duty To Society.  Your part of the Social Contract is to be an owned peon.  When everything else crashes, guess what remains?  Your obligation, of course.

It's Soylent Green.

Read the signs in this little clip --


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:55 | 1456551 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you got it Jack

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 21:12 | 1458166 samsara
samsara's picture

That's the Fact, Jack

Ron is the Fore Runner of someone to come.  He is pointing the way, The young people that he has given direction to thru his numerous articles and interviews(which will be read and reread and requoted) will be the ones to pick it up after collapse.  Everyone (including Ron) knows the system per se cannot be saved and will have to collapse/default and start again.


"When someone asks me "have you paid your dues Jack?  I say, Yes sir, the check is in the mail"

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:06 | 1456064 oldmanagain
oldmanagain's picture

Ron Paul isms are a little like saying I could fly if there was no gravity.

His solutions are  unworkable, but it makes him money.

Word is he pockets the campaign contributions.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:15 | 1456105 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Care to explain how Ron stating the FACT that the fedz are BROKE makes him money?  Or you just tossing bloody chum in the water?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:50 | 1456532 oldmanagain
oldmanagain's picture

Paul has no real solution, but he wants you to contribute, even has ads on ZH.  Psst. Others think the Fed is broken and that the Pubs did it.  Both parties stole the SS funds, voted for every war they could think up. However, almost all of the debt is on Repub watches.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:21 | 1456653 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Now that's funny. Pathetic, but funny.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:21 | 1456136 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

up is down and black is white, right? 

What is the workable solution that you believe should be suggested right now?  I'll wait anxiously to hear your solution.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:57 | 1456825 malalingua
malalingua's picture

oldmanagain. how cute, a docile, gullible and useful assistant working on behalf of the collective. 

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:07 | 1456068 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Think it through.  Higher interest rates would be good for the USA because it would enforce more discipline in borrowing, and act as an incentive for saving and capital formation. 

Cheap credit has been the real disease all along.  Even the gold standard is really about using markets to enforce realism on interest rates.

So, indeed, the AAA rating is just helping us over the cliff faster.  A downgrade would be both realistic and healthy.  Because when is the principal going to get repaid, for real, on US bonds???

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:10 | 1456082 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

 I have been a life long saver. I ask myslef now why any fool would work and save! The Fed has set a policy that is open warfare on savers. Speculators are the priority, real capital formation seems to be ancient history. Borrow and spend, borrow and speculate. That is 2011 America.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:03 | 1456581 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

excellent points both. Seems like a chicken and egg. Does corruption build this system or does this system build corruption. Either way it implodes. No honor amongst thieves, thus no real markets and as Jack says, no economy, no capital.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:50 | 1456533 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Because when is the principal going to get repaid, for real, on US bonds???


I hear the FED is now the biggest holder of the bonds.

Every single dime of which was created out of thin air, as an obligation on us.  Not savings.  Not wealth.  Not an asset.  Counterfeit.  Simply a claim on your future production (oh yeah, they've destroyed that).

So I ask you:

How the hell could the principle ever be repaid?  And the interest?

Speaking of interest, just suppose for a minute someone decided to 'save the dollar'.  Remember 21% interest rates?  Just GUESS what percentage of tax revenues it would take to 'pay the interest'. 

This downgrade talk is like moving the deck chair 1/2" away from the poop deck on the Titanic.

I believe the answer to your question is, "Never." Not ever.  Because I don't intend to work it off for the rest of my life and for the next ten generations.  It's not my debt.  And I'm not paying it.

It will be repudiated.  And not just through inflation, either, though they're trying.  It's going to blow.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:42 | 1458089 samsara
samsara's picture

Jim,  Read Martin Armstrong's new one.  Well worth it.

Gold: The Final Frontier?

Highly recommend it to everyone.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:08 | 1456071 occupant
occupant's picture

I just want to party like its 1929.  Need help on the lyrics

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:08 | 1456072 Sgt.Sausage
Sgt.Sausage's picture

Bankruptcy, bitches!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:10 | 1456084 jomama
jomama's picture

how dare he be honest like that!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:13 | 1456096 itsallgood
itsallgood's picture

Jump-to-default risk and AAA ratings are incompatible.  To put it another way, an entity that cannot fund its liabilities organically cannot be "risk free" by definition.    

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:16 | 1456106 MrBinkeyWhat
MrBinkeyWhat's picture

Beans, Bullets, & Bullion bitchez

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:16 | 1456111 V in PA
V in PA's picture

I'm not that knowledgeable about bonds, but if the USA credit worthiness is the measure used to rate other bonds, how can the credit rating of the USA be lowered? In other words, what are they comparing the US credit worthiness too?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:52 | 1456539 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

The bond rating is a measure of people's faith in your government's ability to put a gun to your head to make them a profit.

"Bond" is the root word for "Bondage".  As in "Toilet Slave".

Does that help?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:14 | 1456608 V in PA
V in PA's picture

When you put it that way it makes total sense.

It's a measure of how corrupt the Gorvernment is in relation to how ignorant the people are. The more we wake up and demand our reps. do the right thing, the lower our credit rating goes.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:40 | 1456745 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Now we're rightside down.  OK, gotta go soak my toothbrush in bleach now.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:19 | 1456122 BeachBummed
BeachBummed's picture

Best thing to ever happen to many folks over the past two years was when the credit card companies reduced their personal debt ceilings - remember the "your credit limit has been reduced" letters - and reduced their FICO scores?  Took away the crack, I mean credit cards.  A forced spending reduction ensued that aligned income and expenses.  Probably too much to ask at the congressional level.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:19 | 1456124 midnight
midnight's picture

You fucking inbreed rednecks at ZH used to jerk off to ratings agencies downgrades of the Europe peripherals, feeling all fuzzy inside, feeling all bull and macho. This while I see people becoming depressed and suffering in my country.


Now you get all pissy about "scaremongering by Moody's " when you're on the wrong side of the rape. It hurts, doesn't it?


Stupid chimps.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:24 | 1456148 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Why so butthurt?

We are calling it scaremongering because Moody's is not independent.  If they step out of line, the government will just legislate them out of existence, and set up a state ratings agency that will be "independent".

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:26 | 1456153 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

If english isn't your first language, perhaps you aren't grasping what readers are saying here.  The scaremongering is the cry to up the debt ceiling, the tool being used is Moody's. 

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:26 | 1456152 Tense INDIAN
Tense INDIAN's picture

it might be to some extent ...but i think we are seeing tooo much effort is  being made to push down our throat that GOLD is sound money .....the elites  are really ready with SOME new GOLD backed SYSTEM......

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:29 | 1456165 cafn8ed
cafn8ed's picture

As I recall, it was a downgrade in the mortgage-backed securities that precipitated the 2008 market collapse, since large institutional investors are Prohibited By Law from holding other-than AAA-rated bonds.  If the T-Bill is downgraded, won't the same thing occur again, but on a much larger scale?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:08 | 1456354 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

MBS were not downgraded before it was already too late. I think it is mark-to-market rules which sent the house of cards crumbling, after the underlying assets became doubtful.

But yes, a t-bill downgrade would spell the ruin of the whole, bigger house of cards this time. Not only banks. Thus downgrade won't happen until after the fact.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:29 | 1456167 occupant
occupant's picture

I was dreamin' when I wrote this
Forgive me if it goes astray
But when I woke up this mornin'
Coulda sworn it was judgment day
The sky was all purple, 
there were people runnin' everywhere
Tryin' to run from the destruction, 
U know I didn't even care

say say two thousand eleven party over, 
oops out of time
So tonight I'm gonna party like it's 1929

I was dreamin' when I wrote this
So sue me if I go to fast
But life is just a party, and parties weren't meant to last
War is all around us, my mind says prepare to fight
So if I gotta die I'm gonna listen to my body tonight

say say two thousand eleven party over, 
oops out of time
So tonight I'm gonna party like it's 1929

intro 2x
Lemme tell ya somethin'
If U didn't come to party, 
don't bother knockin' on my door
I got a lion in my pocket, 
and baby he's ready to roar
Yeah, everybody's got a bomb, 
we could all die any day
But before I'll let that happen, 
I'll dance my life away

Oh, they say 
say say two thousand eleven party over, 
oops out of time
So tonight I'm gonna party like it's 1929
say say two thousand zero zero party over, 
oops out of time
So tonight I'm gonna party like it's 1929

we gonna, oww

Dont ya wanna go 1929
Dont ya wanna go 1929
Dont ya wanna go 1929

appoliges to Prince for borrowing his song

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:31 | 1456176 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Wow.  Finally some sense.  I mean really! 

Moodies will downgrade without a raise to the Debt Ceiling.

Yet, when you raise the Debt Ceiling and owe more Money than before that is OK.

Do you not think it should be the reverse.

Like if you raise the Debt Ceiling there will be a Downgrade.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:39 | 1456225 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

No. In the US driven world, the game has always been about getting deeper into debt. The day one is no longer able to go deeper into debt means the day when one has lost.


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:32 | 1456182 MiningJunkie
MiningJunkie's picture

All you have needed since 2002 was to have loaded the gun with gold and silver and stayed long ex-leverage. The junior miners are priced as if gold is $800/oz. and silver at $15. The next big wave will move into the TSXV or the GDXJ with huge impact because of the miniscule market cap.


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 11:44 | 1456245 nah
nah's picture


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:03 | 1456335 I Am The Unknow...
I Am The Unknown Comic's picture

Tyler & ZH, thank you for this clip.  I missed it and would not have seen it if it was not posted here.  Cheers.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 12:12 | 1456374 electronpaul
electronpaul's picture

Ron Paul is the only grownup in the room.

It's not a ceiling if you can just make it

higher and higher whenever you reach the

number. The government is out of control.



Elect Ron Paul! Do your part, pass articles

like this to people who dont know about him.

Recommend him to everyone on your email list,

do something to promote him.


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:16 | 1456633 r101958
r101958's picture

I'm afraid the only way Paul could win is with a very aggressive write in campaign. As you can plainly see, TPTB will never allow him to govern where he can do any damage to them. He will not be allowed to be one of the two major candidates. They have already marginalized him.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:33 | 1456703 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

There is a slim chance yet

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!