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Ron Paul On Holding The President Accountable On Libya

Tyler Durden's picture




 

From Ron Paul

Holding the President Accountable on Libya

Last week, more than 70 days after President Obama sent our military
to attack Libya without a congressional declaration of war, the House of
Representatives finally voted on two resolutions attempting to rein in
the president.  This debate was long overdue, as polls show Americans
increasingly are frustrated by congressional inaction. According to a
CNN poll last week, 55 percent of the American people believe that
Congress, not the president, should have the final authority to decide
whether the U.S. should continue its military mission in Libya. Yet for
more than 70 days Congress has ignored its constitutional obligations
and allowed the president to usurp its authority.

Finally, Congressman Dennis Kucinich was able to bring to the floor a
resolution asserting that proper constitutional war power authority
resides with Congress. His resolution simply stated that "Congress
directs the President to remove the United States Armed Forces from
Libya by not later than the date that is 15 days after the date of the
adoption of this concurrent resolution."

Opponents of the withdrawal resolution said the 15 day deadline was
too abrupt. But as I pointed out during debate, the president attacked
Libya abruptly – he didn't even bother to consult Congress – so why
can't he order an end to military action just as abruptly? When members
of Congress took an oath of office to defend the Constitution, we did
not pledge to defend it only gradually, a little bit at a time. On the
contrary, we must defend it vigorously and completely from the moment we
take that oath. I was pleased that 87 Republicans were able to put the
Constitution first and support this resolution.

House Speaker John Boehner offered his own resolution on the same
day, which declared that Congress would not support the insertion of US
ground troops into Libya. Although this unfortunately was far from
adequate to satisfy our constitutional obligations, it certainly was a
step in the right direction and I am pleased that it passed in the
House.  Just days before Speaker Boehner's resolution, an amendment to
the defense authorization act prohibited the president from using any
funds in the bill to insert US troops into Libya. A separate amendment
last week prohibiting any funds appropriated to the Department of
Homeland Security from being used to attack Libya came within just a
handful of votes from passing.  All of these votes demonstrate that
members of Congress increasingly understand that our foreign wars are
deeply unpopular with their constituents.  We are broke, and the
American people know it.  They expect Congress to focus on fixing
America's economic problems, rather than rubber stamping yet another
open-ended military intervention in Libya.

I believe these resolutions and amendments indicate that the tide is
turning in the right direction.  I am confident we will see Congress
move toward ending our unconstitutional wars.  The American people are
demanding no less.  The president's attack on Libya was unconstitutional
and thus unlawful.  This policy must be reversed.

 

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Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:44 | 1343745 Concentrated po...
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.'s picture

impeach!!!!!

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:14 | 1343872 Cast Iron Skillet
Cast Iron Skillet's picture

didn't impeach Bush, so don't see why they should go after Obama.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:29 | 1343924 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

While I think most bush comments are really ad hoc and stupid, this is actually a pretty good one.

The entire "world" was against Bush particularly late in his presidency, congress had a supermajority of democrats, and still didn't impeach him or anything.

That should say something.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:43 | 1343965 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

Whether you liked Iraq (or not), Bush had congressional approval before starting the wars.

Obama did not go to Congress for approval. Now his 60 days has more than expired, and he is impeachable for being in violation of the War Powers Act.

If it is not clear that Bush conformed with the U.S. Constitution and Obama has not, then you need to go back to middle school civics class and start over again.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:01 | 1344047 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

I guess I need to be a hell of a lot more specific, especially if I attack the mighty Bush's credibility. (Did you completely ignore the fact that I "stuck up" for Bush, since most attacks are "well Bush did this and this" as it relates to bad things? Stop jumping to conclusions.

I never meant to imply he should be impeached for congressional approval regarding wars. There was ample things that congress could have tried to impeach him on, and would have liked to but didn't.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:58 | 1344274 Never_Put_Down
Never_Put_Down's picture

I agree, Bush got congressional approval based on lies, propaganda and deciept, but but he did get congressional approval nevertheless

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 00:49 | 1345975 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

imo, this rough stuff in the house of r's is one more glimmer of the silver lining in the hideous black cloud that is the obama presidency: as there is just one opposition party in the u.s., the republicans (as the democrats are utterly spineless cowardly sellouts), their reflexive urge to destroy democrats generally and obama particularly, even though he adopts and worsens bush policies (vanity wars, incarceration of whistleblowers, assassination of citizens), will lead to effective opposition to the original, unconstitutional atrocities that went effectively unopposed under bush.

this is not to say that ron paul's (or dennis kucinich's!) opposition is unprincipled; imo it is not. 

 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:49 | 1344002 SuperRay
SuperRay's picture

what it says is that congress is filled with a bunch of self-serving sociopaths who only do what will benefit them (and, with democrats, spineless sociopaths)...

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:27 | 1344163 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

actually a sociopath with a spine is more problematic

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:31 | 1344171 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

No kidding.

I fear an active "loving" government.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:51 | 1344019 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

oh yeh, the whole world was against bush.........yeh right.........please....

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:58 | 1344049 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Hence the quotes.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:52 | 1344242 samsara
samsara's picture

The entire "world" was against Bush particularly late in his presidency,

 

And early in his presidency for those who could Read, think, and See.

 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 23:18 | 1345821 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Thank God Obama has changed all that. I think Pakistan and our interloping helos firing back at their anti-aircraft batteries stands out for me. What great moral victory do think Obama will hang his hat on? 

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 00:58 | 1346001 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

toss up between the incarcerations of bradley manning and that of thomas drake.  no wait, between the lack of prosecution of bush war/torture crimes and the continuation of them.  

as this is an investment blog perhaps the adoption, essentially unchanged and unprosecuted, of bush's too big to fail, leave the felons in charge, piss all our money away protecting bank bondholders from even a dollar of loss while destroying the working and middle classes economically deserves a singular mention. 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 17:22 | 1344620 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

Presidents of the United States can only be impeached for B-jobs. Look it up!

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:45 | 1343972 Clamdigger
Clamdigger's picture

Hilarious that this spot-on comment brought out the RepubliBots.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:51 | 1344020 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Bush's actions were FAR 'worse' - in direct violation of International Law according to past precedent.  Yet the Repubs remain silent on all W did - including torture and use of white phosphorousagainst civilians and far more....

Truth is that the US should NEVER go to war without a declaration of war from Congress but they've given up that right over and over again....... Vietnam, Grenada, Panama.....  all our Founding Fathers feared has come true - a concentration of power in the Executive Branch - with W being one of the worst in his illegal actions - but then Obama has not rennounced any of those powers or prosecuted his predecessors for their actions......   the Republic is dead.  the Empire has had a short life and is collapsing....

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:01 | 1344061 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

I'm not going to necessarily disagree with most of your post, but International law is the argument you come out of the gate with? Fuck that.

Funny because if we want to play the international "law" game, Obama is 100% in the "right" with Libya. International law also says that troops should use FMJ ammunition instead of hollow points to "minimize" suffering, yet no questions asked its a reverse reality. If you think US law is fucked up, international law is significantly worse.

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 01:05 | 1346008 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

point well taken.  both obama and bush, in at least a measurable way more than their evil predecessors, have violated the actual u.s. constitution that they swore (haltingly in obama's case, lol) to uphold.  they are both bags of excrement.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:05 | 1344065 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

LBJ = Nixon = Ford = Carter = Reagan = Bush 41 = Clinton = Bush 43 = Obama.

its all the same. they are all the same. the only thing that changes is the name but the game remains the same.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:10 | 1344096 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Why did you start at LBJ? Any reason in particular (rather than starting at the 20th century or before)? What about Lincoln and beyond.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:42 | 1344213 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

well the terrorist state of israel was started in 1948 . is there a correlation? 

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 01:14 | 1346020 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

yes there is, and a good one.  

nonetheless the original point is not without validity.  wars, particularly, invite unconstitutional abuses of citizens and even worse abuses of noncitizens.  the horrid laws of ww1 live on: trading with the enemy cited by fdr in the gold "seizure" and espionage act of 1917 used to jail thomas drake today.  

nevertheless the incredibly stupid political/military alliance with israel deserves special mention in the annals of u.s. horrible mistakes that keep begetting yet more horrible mistakes (and "mistakes" is being charitable).

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:10 | 1344097 Overpowered By Funk
Overpowered By Funk's picture

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:56 | 1344258 _Alekhine_
_Alekhine_'s picture

That's because they are all (with the possible exception of Carter) RIGHT-WING SOCIAL DEMOCRATS!!! a.k.a Neo-Cons.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 23:20 | 1345826 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Torture is the deliberate injury to another. Who did we deliberately injure? And how? Water Boarding?  You must have missed the Senate hearing where Holder was forced to admit under the recognized definition of torture, there wasn't any. But that would be an inconvenient truth to an OFA parrot.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:56 | 1344022 Cast Iron Skillet
Cast Iron Skillet's picture

oh, man! I got junked. And I thought I was gonna get popular by posting that ... 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:20 | 1344126 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Make sure that skillet isn't stamped (Made in China)

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 17:12 | 1344593 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

didn't impeach Bush, so don't see why they should go after Obama

That's the 4th Grade "Well, he did it too" defense. Or perhaps you were going for the Clintonesque "Well, everyone is doing it" defense.

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 04:37 | 1346149 Michael
Michael's picture

Precedents don't mean shit.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 16:03 | 1344290 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Congress hasn't actually declared war since the 1940s.  Obama certainly isn't the first president to do something like this.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 17:01 | 1344516 DosZap
DosZap's picture

No, but he damn sure needs to be the LAST MF to do so.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 16:49 | 1344473 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

GW Bush War Criminal

Saddam Hussein War Criminal

Now, Mr. Intellectual, Obama is a War Criminal.

We go to countries to stop dictators from killing their own people by doing what, of course, by killing the people we purport to help.  I think GW should be hung by the Hague as a war criminal, like Milosevich, and I think Obama should stand trial at the Hague for war crimes, sentenced to life imprisonment since he is guilty of starting only one unnecessary war.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 18:38 | 1344933 Richardk888
Richardk888's picture

If you are going to hang Bush, please include Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice and Karl Rove!!!

 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:40 | 1343746 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

According to a CNN poll last week, 55 percent of the American people believe that Congress, not the president, should have the final authority to decide whether the U.S. should continue its military mission in Libya

 

So a little over half of American citizens side with the constitution.  I am not sure what to think about that stat.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:44 | 1343757 Trundle
Trundle's picture

"According to a CNN poll..."

Nothing else to say.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:58 | 1343802 wanklord
wanklord's picture

 

By appealing to tons of bullshit about the Constitution and other patriotic crap, Congressman Ron Paul is able to seduce his brute and ignorant constituency and most important, to perpetuate himself in that position for years to come (a clever way to make easy money).

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:36 | 1343941 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Give it up, troll. Go play character assasination somewhere else.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:46 | 1343992 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Not sure why you got junked for a rational assumption.

While it'd be nice to believe that the US .gov is limited by the Constitution and the BoR, facts are that it is not. Nor does anyone care in .gov to rein it in. Ron Paul can kick, scream and pout all he wants about limited government - but he hasn't made a dent in 30 years of being a congressman (not for lack of trying, I suppose - but the numbers are against him). He has, OTOH, made millions from his supporters contributions (who would prolly fare better in the long run spending that money on grub, guns and gold).

The likelyhood that Ron Paul will do something stupendous that turns this mother around within his lifetime is about nil. He's the equivalent of a life preserver in a whirlpool... looks good, but useless all the same.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:52 | 1344021 SuperRay
SuperRay's picture

(hmmm, the trolls are targeting Ron Paul now.  that's good, that's very good. It means he's got the attention of the kleptocrats who pay the trolls to bash whoever appears to be against their interests....)

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 16:52 | 1344470 damage
damage's picture

And there's a better likelyhood if he doesn't make it to POTUS? What's your point? I guess we should just all not ever bother even trying to vote or we should just vote in Obama again?

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 17:59 | 1344797 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Who's trolling? Just callin' it like I see it.

I used to send my fiat d0llars to rich guys running political campaigns, like Ron Paul. I thought I'd somehow feel better about the problem if I did something. And then I realized I was being suckered.

I stopped falling for the right/left/blue/red/ bullshit duopoly of US politics a long time ago... in fact, it was soon after I threw out my TeeVee.

But you guys go'head and vote if it makes ya feel good. Send your hard earned d0llars to rich guys who know how to spend them better than you. I'll spend my time a bit more productively - like napping - and my d0llars on things I'll be needing when this all comes unglued.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:53 | 1344032 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

give all your money to the ron paul money bomb.  after all, he is doing it all for you.........

 

hey paul is pretty good at this money bomb business. almost as good as alex jones.....

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 16:50 | 1344481 damage
damage's picture

Yeah a whole maximum of $2,500 thanks to shitty campaign finance "reform" laws.

Anyways I gave him some money. I believe in what he is doing, even if he doesn't win he has done a whole lot to educate the public.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 17:19 | 1344609 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

yeh i gave him money in the big money bomb during the 2008 campaign. you know the one, that after it was over, he immediately quit. then asked well what about all of that money?  he said, oh it will go to conservative causes......yeh sure.......more than one person was pissed off, and wanted their money back.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 21:17 | 1345511 damage
damage's picture

As far as I know he never "quit". But see it as you will. He's the best shot we have at some sort of decent federal government.

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 00:01 | 1345898 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Where 'conservative cause' is defined as...Rand's campaign. And he can do it every four years until he's dead because he'll never win and be accountable for the success or failure of his policies.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:57 | 1343810 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

You could maybe say "Over half of Americans polled" probably dont even know who their representatives are much less what congressional district they're in?

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:09 | 1344093 ibjamming
ibjamming's picture

Does it matter?  Really...does it matter?  If they have a D or an R by their name...it doesn't really matter.

 

BTW, registered independent yet voted for RP in the primaries.  We can only hope...eh?

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:48 | 1343762 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Thats not really fair to make that assumption.

It might be 55 said "we think congress" or "congress DEFINITELY" but it could also be something like 35% I'm not really sure, or I don't know. Perhaps there are people amongst the 45 that have not had ample time to consider the case, rather than making a rash opinion. (It is likely many of the 55% made a rash opinion though)

 

 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:07 | 1343844 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

the other 45% asked what is Congress

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:15 | 1343876 cossack55
cossack55's picture

LMFAO

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:35 | 1343935 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Solid gold.

 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 17:11 | 1344562 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Yep, good one, sadly they only know to scream for their RIGHTS.

And they only know what one or two are, never read the Constitution, nor the Amendments.Think D.C. is a state, one of Obamas 57(Classic).

This dude is POTUS?,and an Intellectual?.............

IF you can read a Teleprompter, your considered Nobel Prize material, and an Intellectual.

Shazzzzzzzzzzzam.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:32 | 1343919 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

True.  On a highschool exam, I would expect at least a passing percent of students to answer the question "Does the consititution....." correctly.  Where as, "Do you believe...." question would have a different response entirely.  I do conceed the possiblility many americans in that poll had no idea what the question was about.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:41 | 1343950 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

There are alot of people (and its taught in school, at least mine) about how the constitution is so "left to interpretation."

Therefore any ol' opinion about should or should not, doesn't necessarily stem from the actual document, but rather their personalized view. I guess, the interpretist could argue that about any "view" of the congress should or shouldn't.

I think alot of people give the "populace" (undue) grief. (I find it ironic NOBODY is the populace, but everyone else is. This website I think is super charged with oracles, clairvoyants, and those who have got all of the "master plans" figured out, than any other one out there).  Its not uncommon for these surveys to be shittily worded, bad and inadequate variables, and more importantly over analyzed.  I keep telling myself that when I see the 50+ approval rating of Mr. Obama.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:48 | 1343985 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

It is a political document so we should not be surprised it is open to loopholes.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:52 | 1344007 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

You know what I NEVER thought of it that way... Funny how such an obvious argument has so much merit.

Hah. I'm going to sit here and think about that statement for quite awhile.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:54 | 1344016 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

As most bills today, do we actually know if most read it before signing it?

EDIT: that was a joke.....

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:04 | 1344071 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Haha.

So I've decided that statement might be the world's most ironic joke afterall. Oh those founding fathers... they could make some good ones!

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 00:04 | 1345904 snowball777
snowball777's picture

The US Constitution as an intellectual prank on future generations: love it.

 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:45 | 1343764 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

So a little over half of American citizens side with the constitution.  I am not sure what to think about that stat.

1) It's a CNN poll - responses are heavily skewed toward liberals.

2) Liberals' knowledge of the Constitution ended with Schoolhouse Rock.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:55 | 1343775 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture
The Preamble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_TXJRZ4CFc

 

Unfortunately liberals think that the most important phrase is "establish a more perfect union" not "secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and posterity."

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:55 | 1343805 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

I had a neocon try to explain to me that the posterity clause meant that welfare of children is above the rights of citizens. This guy for years tried to convince me he wasn't a neocon until I found his particular special interest. Nearly anything can and is used to justify theft and force. The more perfect union is one of them in particular.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:06 | 1343827 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Much like on airlines I believe "Passengers are instructed to make sure their masks are on first before assisting other passengers or children."

 

And yes neocons are the same as liberals in feeling it is their right to tell others how to live.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:14 | 1344116 Cast Iron Skillet
Cast Iron Skillet's picture

liberals ... when they hear "establish a more perfect union" all they can think of is finding a better kamasutra position for HOT SEX!!!

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 00:06 | 1345905 snowball777
snowball777's picture

conservatives...when they hear "establish a more perfect union" all they can think of is people in purple shirts coming to take their fine german automobile.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 17:18 | 1344599 DosZap
DosZap's picture

 Liberals' knowledge of the Constitution ended with Schoolhouse Rock

 

No, the know it better than most, that's why they hate the documents.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:50 | 1343772 Jimbo Jones
Jimbo Jones's picture

Luckily, it they didn't ask the people what the Constitution says about final authority to declare war because I suspect the number would favor the POTUS.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:14 | 1343853 wherewasi
wherewasi's picture

Indeed.  I wonder how many of the respondants would be able to actually cite the Constitution as authority for their belief...

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:32 | 1344166 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Such heresay, next you'll be speculating as to whether people should pass a simple written civics examination, in English, prior to participating in elections. Must not be part of the get-out-the-vote crowd!

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:54 | 1344251 wherewasi
wherewasi's picture

Hmmm...  you have a point;  I may have gone too far. 

 

On the bright side CNN may have identified a whole new pool of Supreme Coutr candidates.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:59 | 1344264 Mad Cow
Mad Cow's picture

Don't worry about that ever happening. You don't even need to be alive to vote.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 16:36 | 1344393 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Lolz heck nowadays you don't even need to have existed; merely a gleam in a Diebold* programmer's eye.

* Now Premier Election Solutions, may as well have been named Acme.

 

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/08/diebold-audit-logs

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:41 | 1343747 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yeah right...

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 00:07 | 1345907 snowball777
snowball777's picture

No, he's gonna do it this time. You'll see! ;)

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:46 | 1343749 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Paul, B. Hussein, and Kucinich: the be-all-end-all of beer summits.

Nice sentiment, Ronnie, but ain't gonna happen.  Wars are a stealth form of fiscal stimulus to Michelle's hubby.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:46 | 1343750 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Oh lookee, professor p is on the case. Expect results in about, ohhhh, 40 years or so, when his grandson takes over the coffee party.

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/hey-america/

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:47 | 1343754 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

I used to think Ron Paul was a tranny...every time i hear his name i subconsciously imagine someone doing a duet with Elton John. How weird is that?

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:49 | 1343766 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

you shouldn't talk like that. you will get robo all stirred up.........

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:56 | 1343794 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

all art is self-portrait...

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:01 | 1343816 augie
augie's picture

+1

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:52 | 1344257 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Good point. I'll remember that, the next time I take in some Picasso or Monet.

 

     Timmay must have some BREATHLESS canvas waiting for discovery?

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:05 | 1343837 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

My poor wife had to explain to her mother that Ru Paul was a dude, not the really pretty woman my mother-in-law thought.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:11 | 1343857 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

At least she never wanked over him...how many poor bastards did that? (present company excluded)

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:19 | 1343891 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

ever think of changing your moniker to Crying Game?

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:32 | 1343937 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

High Plains Drifter has already claimed it as his alter ego.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:55 | 1344037 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i most certainly did not...........

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:34 | 1343933 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

and you call yourself   scratch and sniff.......i am just sayin...........

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:13 | 1343852 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

Sorry about that - correction;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqPpbqSnAI

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:47 | 1343755 Cestabsurd
Cestabsurd's picture

Wow. Congress is on the verge of recognizing that the War Declaration power belongs to itself, and that the unconstitutional War Powers Act (ceding its constitutional rights to the President) ought to be enforced too. What next? Enforcement of the Bill of Rights? Just how radical are these people?

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:50 | 1343770 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

The sad thing is there are people who honestly believe that is radical. (Enforcement only when it stops them from enacting their will over others that is).

 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:29 | 1343926 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Yep, and history shows over and over what happens when too many try to enact their will over others - civil war.  No worries I guess, it will get sorted out one way or another.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:44 | 1343967 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

THATS life.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:50 | 1343774 Trillax
Trillax's picture

Pretty "Mavricky" and "Rogue".

*rolls eyes*

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:50 | 1343785 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Hah

Anything that doesn't say the executive branch shouldn't have supreme authority IS quite rogue.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:59 | 1343819 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Haaah! Nice...

ORI

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:17 | 1343867 Trillax
Trillax's picture

;) Thanks ORI.  Take care.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:53 | 1343796 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

If they're not with us, they're against us.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:06 | 1343840 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

The presidents first reaction was ' who's congress' when his aids reminded he of who they were his second reaction was 'fuck um'

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:11 | 1343856 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

it is ironic that we spread "democracy" by propping up our puppet dictators and building up our own at home.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:44 | 1343761 pepperspray
pepperspray's picture

More kenesis please

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:57 | 1343799 Temporalist
Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:45 | 1343763 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

"Global elites view the White Western world as the main obstacle standing in the way of a future world government. Multiculturalism is a tool used by such elites to dismantle White Western civilization".

Pat Buchanan (from a 2004 speech given in Falls Church, VA)

now, let me see. who are the global elites, there pat? hmmm?

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:46 | 1343769 djsmps
djsmps's picture

This is why Ron Paul is nobody. He starts with a strong stance, and then compromises it down just like every other congressional clown.

"A separate amendment last week prohibiting any funds appropriated to the Department of Homeland Security from being used to attack Libya came within just a handful of votes from passing."

Yeah, things are changing.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:52 | 1343781 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

he has been there 20 years. what has he done?  he is a john bircher and there is considerable circumstancial evidence that he is a mason. one way to verify this is the pictures on the web of him doing the 33 degree masonic handshake and also of him making gang signs with his hands in public. he is a stalking horse. do not follow him. waste of time..

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:58 | 1343814 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

He is not a Bircher. His father was a freemason, but he himself absolved himself from both the Birch Society and the Freemasions.

The most he ever did was give a speech at a Bircher meeting. But he is not a member.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:09 | 1343850 redpill
redpill's picture

Yeah a 70+ year old obstetrician is making gang signs. Shut the fuck up already.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:14 | 1343869 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Liberty fo life nugga. Peace!

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:15 | 1343873 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Monster Kody Scott's got nothin on this guy

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 23:35 | 1345851 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Why is being a Mason such an issue for you?  I am a Mason, and never saw a single indication of any of the crap conspiracy theories some of you folks come up with.  It's 99% charity work, and 1% secret initiations and handshakes. (which are neat, but not what you think.)

It *is* a conspiracy, in the literal sense, but not a malignant one.  As an example, about ten years ago a member of my lodge conspired to introduce me to his dentist, who is also a Mason, and they conspired to help me get some dental work done at a deep discount.  Quick- lock your doors and break out the tinfoil hat!

I've never met a brother Mason I didn't like.  They're good men who do good works.  And FWIW, several of the founders were Masons as well.

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 03:45 | 1346126 efiniti
efiniti's picture

He's basically a small monkey wrench thrown in a death machine.  

 

People like you ask what have you done rather than what have you prevented?  If you're in Congress now and you've "accomplished" something then chances are you're part of the problem.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:49 | 1343783 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

If Ron Paul is nobody, please provide an example of a somebody.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:54 | 1343800 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

that is the point. there is nobody. get it?  there is just you and me?  whatcha goin to do?

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:05 | 1343833 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Exactly! exactly......

know thy self, be thy self.

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/06/14/know-thy-self/

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:13 | 1343862 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

While I don't agree with alot of your posts I think there is something to this one. I believe have way way too much trust and faith that superman is going to swoop down to fix our problems.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:21 | 1343883 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

human nature. womb with a view. We're not only waiting for superman, we can't admit he's the devil   

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:26 | 1343913 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

he is not coming this time. and you know what. he never came anyway. it was all one big lie from the start. whatever freedoms we have had or experienced or thought we had were mere necessary side effects  that the controllers of this country had to suffer while they were and still are implementing their plans. you see now, in the 21st century the true meaning of what we are all about is coming to the front now in living color. we are the new world order mercenary army and have been ever since the war of 1812, which was the last constitutional war we ever fought. it is as bush said, the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper. fine, i ackknowledge that and i understand that and i realize i was sold down the river without a paddle. most amerikans can never get to this assumption. it is just too damn painful to realize that everything you ever knew, everything you ever thought you knew about this country was just one big fucking lie.........

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:49 | 1343990 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Posts like this is what I was referring to. I prefer to dial down the sensationalism a few notches.

Not everything has been a lie, or at least maybe if you're living in the world of a 6 year old. Life is tough and there are bad people out there. They come in all shapes and sizes. So what? Man up.

All of the elites aren't in on "it" and they sure as hell aren't all buddies either.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:02 | 1344051 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

see. you just can't do it can you?   it is just too damn painful to admit. it is like talking to a ww2 veteran and telling them that they were not america's finest generation but were america's biggest chumps.......they will not get it, nor will they ever admit it. instead they stick out their chest and show you their medals and brag about exploits and never stop to understand and to realize they were used and lied to by this country, a country they thought they were fighting for but were not........

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 16:46 | 1344457 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

I agree with most of your comments.. This one is no exception. I do, however, not understand your negative view of RP. All the bullshit lies and pretenders out there and you can't bring yourself to see the difference between RP and his opponents.  Although I do not see him as perfect, I do see him as a cut above the rest... hands down.. 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 17:37 | 1344694 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAZi-y22gdY

i think he pretty well sums it up for me.........

i am sorry. i am a cynical old bastard. i have been around a while. i don't trust anyone. i think it is too dangerous to put all of your trust in some old man who has been inside the beltway now ,for almost 20 years or so. i see him making signs in public......

http://waitingtorot.blogspot.com/2007/11/12-masonic-signs-of-recognition...

here is our hero gang signing all over the place. he who has eyes let him see.....

http://www.yostuff.com/video/illuminati-Hand-Signs-and-Handshakes-Ron-Pa...

now then, in all of my 60 years, i have never known one person that went around making signs like this in public. what does it mean? whatever it means, truely means, only those who it is designed to edify truely know for sure. no? another words, he does not have our best interest at heart....

on a side note, the weasel that started oathkeepers, is stewart rhodes, another sayanim infiltrator and agent provocateur, who happened to work for the ron paul campaign in 2008. i guess they felt it was time for him to start this organization as some kind of honeypot operation to collect names of active duty soldiers who do not have their minds right.....

and on and on it goes. you have to get up early to catch them. but catch them you can if you try.........

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 21:04 | 1345470 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

I'm guilt of some of those illuminati signs myself.. 

I also think RP has done nothing because he hasn't had enough support because he is marginalized..

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:17 | 1344128 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Hey Thetmfreak, try this list...

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/hey-america/

 

ORI

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:24 | 1344153 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

I browsed through the list. I just like how outsiders are just so well versed on inside secrets. From everything I've learned in my life, secrets and agendas are some of the fastest things to be exposed. The larger they are and the more people try to safe guard them the faster they come out.

People give these "elites" way too much credit.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 16:30 | 1343917 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

deleted.....

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:16 | 1343880 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

What would you like him to do?  I think he has been successful in educating and becoming a lightening rod for many, including many here on ZH.

He is only one guppy swimming among many sharks so for someone in the position he is in, he has done a lot of good.

All of the voices on ZeroHedge, Turd's blog, and the many other sites that shine a light on the truth can't even make a huge difference overnight.  How many people have you talked to about how screwed up the US is only to be met with a dumb stare.

I get that all the time as Dr. Paul surely does.  Don't you?

 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:38 | 1343960 tickhound
tickhound's picture

+1 to the whispers of truth he and a few others provide within a hostile matrix... Its clearly better than nothing.

But to many, it will always fall short of the immediate gratification that'll come by way of pitchforks and torches. 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:51 | 1343996 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Immediate gratification. Nice word selection. Thats actually quite true. I guess when we see somebody else get "immediate gratification" such as craming bullshit legislation, we assume it can be reversed at the same pace. Yeah right.

Considering there are so many guilty parties out there justice doesn't and won't come "instantly." And even if/when pitchforks and torches come (who knows maybe they won't) it won't exactly be pure and just either.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:01 | 1344045 tickhound
tickhound's picture

"And even if/when pitchforks and torches come (who knows maybe they won't) it won't exactly be pure and just either."

So true... But that too, will be better than nothing.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:08 | 1344079 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Ends justify means?

Edit: I can't agree with you. I'll leave it as, thats life and what happens. In that statement you just endorsed that its ok for an angry mob of the "working class" to kill innocents (likely out of being grouped with the "evil" doers), but many others will say that when the military kills innocents (civilian casualties) its more wrong.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:26 | 1344147 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Not sure I endorsed all that... But I did endorse revolution to overthrow fascism should no other means provide the justice that people might/will demand.  And "white collar" should never be viewed as auto-state subservient... Although it typically is in this binary fake reality we live in.  Many revolutions come to mind and many we celebrate as true "progress." 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:33 | 1344168 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

I should have probably chosen a less definitive word selection such as "might incidentally endorse." Basically by saying its better than nothing, it might mean that one might have to do things that you do not condone to have change.

I'm with you on the rest.

Progress should definitely be put in quotes. I hate the word progress and how people use it because it imagines everything on a linear scale where you're moving forward or backwards. I don't think that necessarily applies to revolutions. Lets put this into perspective using variables.

You have three issues in a society. A, B and C. Both A and C are bad and are going to have a revolution over it, while B is just fine. After the revolution A and C are now good but B has become unbearable. Is this progress or moving forward? Is it our natural reaction to quantify these and just say since we now have 2 out of 3 instead of 1 out of 3 that things are now better? Do we think that if we sacrifice a little of the 2nd amendment for more of the 1st and 4th we'll be better off?

 

 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:53 | 1343787 Jimbo Jones
Jimbo Jones's picture

Ron Paul takes a strong stance, then votes it.  His biggest problem is figuring out what to do about the FED without destroying confidence in the dollar or becoming known as the cause of the next collapse, which is inevitable anyway.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:04 | 1343831 Bob
Bob's picture

His biggest problem, it seems to me, is that even if elected POTUS he would have no power whatsoever to make good his campaign promises.  End the Fed?  Dismantle the MIC machine? 

Things like those would take a strongly supportive Congress.  Never in a million years.  Not Congress as we know it. 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:08 | 1343846 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Precisely Bob. Don Quixote he is...

ORI

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:24 | 1343898 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

and it's hard to dismantle the Fed after you've been shot 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:38 | 1344196 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Or an EMP weapon can be used against the aircraft you're flying in, and you drop out of the sky like a lead brick.

/paulwellstoned

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:23 | 1343903 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

What about Veto power?  Funding for wars?  Vetoed.  TARP?  Vetoed.  etc. etc.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:59 | 1344040 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Easy to cast a "cast" no vote when you know you will be in a minority of 2 (or three if Dennis K is in or out)... no? 

But anyways, the whole American political process is one giant joke, a theater of the absurd. It's like Dorian Gray coming face to face with his portrait in the attic. A rude awakening, all around. And as it is for you guys, likewise here. Same core crap, different style and accent (more brutish here).

What an awesome mess for a "well" known 2-6,000 year history.

ORi

http://vigilantcitizen.com/sinistersites/mystical-sites-u-s-capitol/

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:12 | 1343860 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I'd rather have the one voice against many than no voice at all.

"Truth is treason in the empire of lies." Ron Paul

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:20 | 1343888 Bob
Bob's picture

It's important to have guys of all perspectives speaking their visions of truth, imo.  Ron's been off the reservation for a long time . . . wish there was not a "reservation," but it is what it is.  FWIW, I feel the same about Sanders.  But it's a shame that we get nothing more from the "free" voices than the gratification of hearing things we like from the wilderness.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:39 | 1343927 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Sanders is important just because he doesn't have an R or D after his name. You may not agree with every thing he says but his very title says:

 . I am not a whore.

 . I do not think government is like a sports game where the only thing that matters is if my team wins  

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:39 | 1343953 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Yes he says those things right after he says "The government should own everything and take care of everyone."

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:44 | 1343979 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

he could be a hyper-libertarian and want to abolish all speed limits and water testing but I'd still respect him for not belonging to either political party  

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:42 | 1343971 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Sanders is 100% whore like the rest of the lot.  Does anyone remember when the FULL audit of the Federal Reserve was in the Frodd/Dank Bill?  Something about flash crashing and stripping the language...

I had a chance to call him out on it during a radio interview, but the segment was pulled from YouTube.  Funny thing is, the call before mine on that radio show was a caller asking, "Hey, when I can start getting my free healthcare?"  Couldn't make this shit up.

Never trust a self-described socialist. 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:19 | 1344067 Bob
Bob's picture

The problem I see is trusting a dichotomous system in which labels--self applied or not--define the argument per se and determine the same monotonously empty outcomes. 

In a multi-party system, guys like Sanders and Kucinich (not my heroes, btw, so I don't need to be disabused) would meet with "libertarians" on drug laws, the Patriot Act, the MIC, etc . . . we'd be looking at a very different world.  Unfortunately, all we get is an artificially dichotomous dog and pony show.

Principled libertarians, liberals and conservatives have profound agreement on some fundamental issues . . . unfortunately, the system is set up to alienate us from one another and we're too damn willing to play along. 

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 01:00 | 1345996 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Well said

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 03:44 | 1346127 MurderNeverWasLove
MurderNeverWasLove's picture

Principled libertarians, liberals and conservatives have profound agreement on some fundamental issues . . . unfortunately, the system is set up to alienate us from one another and we're too damn willing to play along.

 

Nicely put.

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