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Ron Paul On Holding The President Accountable On Libya

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Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:44 | 1343745 Concentrated po...
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.'s picture


Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:14 | 1343872 Cast Iron Skillet
Cast Iron Skillet's picture

didn't impeach Bush, so don't see why they should go after Obama.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:29 | 1343924 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

While I think most bush comments are really ad hoc and stupid, this is actually a pretty good one.

The entire "world" was against Bush particularly late in his presidency, congress had a supermajority of democrats, and still didn't impeach him or anything.

That should say something.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:43 | 1343965 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

Whether you liked Iraq (or not), Bush had congressional approval before starting the wars.

Obama did not go to Congress for approval. Now his 60 days has more than expired, and he is impeachable for being in violation of the War Powers Act.

If it is not clear that Bush conformed with the U.S. Constitution and Obama has not, then you need to go back to middle school civics class and start over again.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:01 | 1344047 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

I guess I need to be a hell of a lot more specific, especially if I attack the mighty Bush's credibility. (Did you completely ignore the fact that I "stuck up" for Bush, since most attacks are "well Bush did this and this" as it relates to bad things? Stop jumping to conclusions.

I never meant to imply he should be impeached for congressional approval regarding wars. There was ample things that congress could have tried to impeach him on, and would have liked to but didn't.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:58 | 1344274 Never_Put_Down
Never_Put_Down's picture

I agree, Bush got congressional approval based on lies, propaganda and deciept, but but he did get congressional approval nevertheless

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 00:49 | 1345975 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

imo, this rough stuff in the house of r's is one more glimmer of the silver lining in the hideous black cloud that is the obama presidency: as there is just one opposition party in the u.s., the republicans (as the democrats are utterly spineless cowardly sellouts), their reflexive urge to destroy democrats generally and obama particularly, even though he adopts and worsens bush policies (vanity wars, incarceration of whistleblowers, assassination of citizens), will lead to effective opposition to the original, unconstitutional atrocities that went effectively unopposed under bush.

this is not to say that ron paul's (or dennis kucinich's!) opposition is unprincipled; imo it is not. 


Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:49 | 1344002 SuperRay
SuperRay's picture

what it says is that congress is filled with a bunch of self-serving sociopaths who only do what will benefit them (and, with democrats, spineless sociopaths)...

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:27 | 1344163 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

actually a sociopath with a spine is more problematic

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:31 | 1344171 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

No kidding.

I fear an active "loving" government.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:51 | 1344019 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

oh yeh, the whole world was against bush.........yeh right.........please....

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:58 | 1344049 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Hence the quotes.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:52 | 1344242 samsara
samsara's picture

The entire "world" was against Bush particularly late in his presidency,


And early in his presidency for those who could Read, think, and See.


Mon, 06/06/2011 - 23:18 | 1345821 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Thank God Obama has changed all that. I think Pakistan and our interloping helos firing back at their anti-aircraft batteries stands out for me. What great moral victory do think Obama will hang his hat on? 

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 00:58 | 1346001 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

toss up between the incarcerations of bradley manning and that of thomas drake.  no wait, between the lack of prosecution of bush war/torture crimes and the continuation of them.  

as this is an investment blog perhaps the adoption, essentially unchanged and unprosecuted, of bush's too big to fail, leave the felons in charge, piss all our money away protecting bank bondholders from even a dollar of loss while destroying the working and middle classes economically deserves a singular mention. 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 17:22 | 1344620 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

Presidents of the United States can only be impeached for B-jobs. Look it up!

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:45 | 1343972 Clamdigger
Clamdigger's picture

Hilarious that this spot-on comment brought out the RepubliBots.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:51 | 1344020 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Bush's actions were FAR 'worse' - in direct violation of International Law according to past precedent.  Yet the Repubs remain silent on all W did - including torture and use of white phosphorousagainst civilians and far more....

Truth is that the US should NEVER go to war without a declaration of war from Congress but they've given up that right over and over again....... Vietnam, Grenada, Panama.....  all our Founding Fathers feared has come true - a concentration of power in the Executive Branch - with W being one of the worst in his illegal actions - but then Obama has not rennounced any of those powers or prosecuted his predecessors for their actions......   the Republic is dead.  the Empire has had a short life and is collapsing....

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:01 | 1344061 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

I'm not going to necessarily disagree with most of your post, but International law is the argument you come out of the gate with? Fuck that.

Funny because if we want to play the international "law" game, Obama is 100% in the "right" with Libya. International law also says that troops should use FMJ ammunition instead of hollow points to "minimize" suffering, yet no questions asked its a reverse reality. If you think US law is fucked up, international law is significantly worse.

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 01:05 | 1346008 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

point well taken.  both obama and bush, in at least a measurable way more than their evil predecessors, have violated the actual u.s. constitution that they swore (haltingly in obama's case, lol) to uphold.  they are both bags of excrement.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:05 | 1344065 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

LBJ = Nixon = Ford = Carter = Reagan = Bush 41 = Clinton = Bush 43 = Obama.

its all the same. they are all the same. the only thing that changes is the name but the game remains the same.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:10 | 1344096 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Why did you start at LBJ? Any reason in particular (rather than starting at the 20th century or before)? What about Lincoln and beyond.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:42 | 1344213 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

well the terrorist state of israel was started in 1948 . is there a correlation? 

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 01:14 | 1346020 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

yes there is, and a good one.  

nonetheless the original point is not without validity.  wars, particularly, invite unconstitutional abuses of citizens and even worse abuses of noncitizens.  the horrid laws of ww1 live on: trading with the enemy cited by fdr in the gold "seizure" and espionage act of 1917 used to jail thomas drake today.  

nevertheless the incredibly stupid political/military alliance with israel deserves special mention in the annals of u.s. horrible mistakes that keep begetting yet more horrible mistakes (and "mistakes" is being charitable).

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:10 | 1344097 Overpowered By Funk
Overpowered By Funk's picture

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:56 | 1344258 _Alekhine_
_Alekhine_'s picture

That's because they are all (with the possible exception of Carter) RIGHT-WING SOCIAL DEMOCRATS!!! a.k.a Neo-Cons.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 23:20 | 1345826 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Torture is the deliberate injury to another. Who did we deliberately injure? And how? Water Boarding?  You must have missed the Senate hearing where Holder was forced to admit under the recognized definition of torture, there wasn't any. But that would be an inconvenient truth to an OFA parrot.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:56 | 1344022 Cast Iron Skillet
Cast Iron Skillet's picture

oh, man! I got junked. And I thought I was gonna get popular by posting that ... 

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:20 | 1344126 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Make sure that skillet isn't stamped (Made in China)

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 17:12 | 1344593 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

didn't impeach Bush, so don't see why they should go after Obama

That's the 4th Grade "Well, he did it too" defense. Or perhaps you were going for the Clintonesque "Well, everyone is doing it" defense.

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 04:37 | 1346149 Michael
Michael's picture

Precedents don't mean shit.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 16:03 | 1344290 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Congress hasn't actually declared war since the 1940s.  Obama certainly isn't the first president to do something like this.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 17:01 | 1344516 DosZap
DosZap's picture

No, but he damn sure needs to be the LAST MF to do so.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 16:49 | 1344473 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

GW Bush War Criminal

Saddam Hussein War Criminal

Now, Mr. Intellectual, Obama is a War Criminal.

We go to countries to stop dictators from killing their own people by doing what, of course, by killing the people we purport to help.  I think GW should be hung by the Hague as a war criminal, like Milosevich, and I think Obama should stand trial at the Hague for war crimes, sentenced to life imprisonment since he is guilty of starting only one unnecessary war.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 18:38 | 1344933 Richardk888
Richardk888's picture

If you are going to hang Bush, please include Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice and Karl Rove!!!


Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:40 | 1343746 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

According to a CNN poll last week, 55 percent of the American people believe that Congress, not the president, should have the final authority to decide whether the U.S. should continue its military mission in Libya


So a little over half of American citizens side with the constitution.  I am not sure what to think about that stat.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:44 | 1343757 Trundle
Trundle's picture

"According to a CNN poll..."

Nothing else to say.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:58 | 1343802 wanklord
wanklord's picture


By appealing to tons of bullshit about the Constitution and other patriotic crap, Congressman Ron Paul is able to seduce his brute and ignorant constituency and most important, to perpetuate himself in that position for years to come (a clever way to make easy money).

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:36 | 1343941 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Give it up, troll. Go play character assasination somewhere else.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:46 | 1343992 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Not sure why you got junked for a rational assumption.

While it'd be nice to believe that the US .gov is limited by the Constitution and the BoR, facts are that it is not. Nor does anyone care in .gov to rein it in. Ron Paul can kick, scream and pout all he wants about limited government - but he hasn't made a dent in 30 years of being a congressman (not for lack of trying, I suppose - but the numbers are against him). He has, OTOH, made millions from his supporters contributions (who would prolly fare better in the long run spending that money on grub, guns and gold).

The likelyhood that Ron Paul will do something stupendous that turns this mother around within his lifetime is about nil. He's the equivalent of a life preserver in a whirlpool... looks good, but useless all the same.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:52 | 1344021 SuperRay
SuperRay's picture

(hmmm, the trolls are targeting Ron Paul now.  that's good, that's very good. It means he's got the attention of the kleptocrats who pay the trolls to bash whoever appears to be against their interests....)

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 16:52 | 1344470 damage
damage's picture

And there's a better likelyhood if he doesn't make it to POTUS? What's your point? I guess we should just all not ever bother even trying to vote or we should just vote in Obama again?

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 17:59 | 1344797 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Who's trolling? Just callin' it like I see it.

I used to send my fiat d0llars to rich guys running political campaigns, like Ron Paul. I thought I'd somehow feel better about the problem if I did something. And then I realized I was being suckered.

I stopped falling for the right/left/blue/red/ bullshit duopoly of US politics a long time ago... in fact, it was soon after I threw out my TeeVee.

But you guys go'head and vote if it makes ya feel good. Send your hard earned d0llars to rich guys who know how to spend them better than you. I'll spend my time a bit more productively - like napping - and my d0llars on things I'll be needing when this all comes unglued.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 14:53 | 1344032 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

give all your money to the ron paul money bomb.  after all, he is doing it all for you.........


hey paul is pretty good at this money bomb business. almost as good as alex jones.....

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 16:50 | 1344481 damage
damage's picture

Yeah a whole maximum of $2,500 thanks to shitty campaign finance "reform" laws.

Anyways I gave him some money. I believe in what he is doing, even if he doesn't win he has done a whole lot to educate the public.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 17:19 | 1344609 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

yeh i gave him money in the big money bomb during the 2008 campaign. you know the one, that after it was over, he immediately quit. then asked well what about all of that money?  he said, oh it will go to conservative causes......yeh sure.......more than one person was pissed off, and wanted their money back.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 21:17 | 1345511 damage
damage's picture

As far as I know he never "quit". But see it as you will. He's the best shot we have at some sort of decent federal government.

Tue, 06/07/2011 - 00:01 | 1345898 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Where 'conservative cause' is defined as...Rand's campaign. And he can do it every four years until he's dead because he'll never win and be accountable for the success or failure of his policies.

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 13:57 | 1343810 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

You could maybe say "Over half of Americans polled" probably dont even know who their representatives are much less what congressional district they're in?

Mon, 06/06/2011 - 15:09 | 1344093 ibjamming
ibjamming's picture

Does it matter?  Really...does it matter?  If they have a D or an R by their name...it doesn't really matter.


BTW, registered independent yet voted for RP in the primaries.  We can only hope...eh?

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