This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Ron Paul: "The U.S. Government Must Admit It Is Bankrupt"

Tyler Durden's picture


Any time you bring the two Pauls together in an interview, and start discussing items such as the debt ceiling, government spending, and monetary policy you know the results will be good. Sure enough, in this rare ABC interview with father and son, the sparks fly, and among the topic touched is the most popular story on Zero Hedge from yesterday, namely President Obama fabulous hypocrisy, who after bashing the debt ceiling as a senator 4 years ago, has bet the outcome of his entire economic policy on maxing out every single credit card available to him. Paul's response: "we have to face the fact that we are bankrupt and we can't pay our bills." Not exactly the kind of thing one wants to hear if one's name is Hu Jintao. That said you know the Paul-led interrogation of Bernanke will be something else, even if it is ultimately totally fruitless.



- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:11 | 854246 Michael
Michael's picture

It doesn't matter anymore. The complete and total economic collapse of the USA is a mathematical certainty now. It might have mattered 2 years ago, but we weren't smart enough to get Dr. Paul in the Whitehouse back then.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:28 | 854300 Shameful
Shameful's picture

The final point of no return was 2001.  Our fate was sealed then, there has been no way out since then.  Even then it would have been damn near impossible to turn the ship of state.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:32 | 854306 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

If only there was a way to get the people who are alive 100 years from now to pay for all this...

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:38 | 854336 Shameful
Shameful's picture

I've often wondered why the state can mortgage the children and yet a private citizenship cannot sell a child into debt slavery.  Why cannot a parent take their child into a car dealership and sign them up for debt slavery for a car?

Both the left and right scream of "Think of the children".  I must assume they are thinking of the children and how to sell them into bondage.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:42 | 854348 dbach
dbach's picture

lmao hilarious +1 000 000

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:02 | 854417 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

They're thinking of children alright. THEIR children. They don't give damn about yours!

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:43 | 854353 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

It is the same reason that the government can do to your kid in a public airport what would get a pedophile arrested.  

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:49 | 854368 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture


That's what really exposes that TSA shit as a total sham. We really have to take little Sally six year old and feel her up for explosives? Give me a fucking break.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:56 | 854395 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Give it time.  There will be stories about children taken from their parents and sexually molested by the TSA during the screenings in private rooms.  Give it time.

There is nothing the Americans will not put up with.  Amazing what a few chemicals, and a little TV will do to the character of a nation.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:56 | 854399 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Well you're wrong there. Matter of time before the powder keg blows up.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:08 | 854439 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Ah you say that and I am not convinced.  If I were the oligarchy I would stage a terror attack to rally the masses.  Say a nuke attack from everyone's favorite scapegoat, probably in Chicago or Dallas.  Gets the heartland thing going.  That would distract them quite well and they would put up with a lot more "security" to stop another nuke strike.  After all TSA seems quite reasonable if there is a nuke fear no?

The oligarchs have had a lot of time on their hands and think tanks working on this issue.  At best the Americans descend on each other left vs right which the oligarchs walk away with the money.  There is a reason a lot of big boys own a lot of foreign property or have remote compounds, they are planning on not getting caught up in any possible violence.

I will state I am not supporting either action, and I find both a nuke attack on Americans killing each other odious and a great tragedy.  I'm simply trying to look at what I would do if I was in the oligarchs shoe's and possessed no ethics or morality.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 21:11 | 854615 RSDallas
RSDallas's picture

Hey leave Dallas out of this will ya!  Send them to Fargo.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 22:53 | 854906 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture


You're really on the ball today.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 23:16 | 854944 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

Been saying for a while the ONLY way Richie Daly would give up being mayor of Chicago was if he was threatened and/or told what was going to happen in Chicago. And that is why the son of the Irgun terrorist, who was Obama's handler, will be the next Chicago mayor.

Making Bill Daly the Obama Chief of Staff is just another part of the payoff.

Who can make all sorts of irrational things happen in Chicago and misdirect the police, fire department, aldermen and the people? The mayor of course.

If there is a city that is a target, my bet would be placed on Chicago.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 23:42 | 855002 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Hmm, to be honest I hadn't even factored all that in. I made my possible target list a year ago and Dallas and Chicago came out on top for different reasons. Food for thought. Particularly since I estimated it would be a small nuke, cause damage and rads but not destroy the town. To bring in fear of the "suit case nuke". With Rahm at the helm he could exasperate the chaos.

Also if any gov employee sees this. I in no way have any knowledge of any plot or plan to use any nuclear device in this nation, or any affiliation with any group other then my damn school and place of employment. I'm just some dumb college kid who does a lot with game theory and analyzing possible situations, for 'fun'.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 00:48 | 855077 barkster
barkster's picture

kinda fits in with the feds a couple of years ago asking local law enforcement in suburban chicago counties where they could bury 400k bodies...

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 10:35 | 855920 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I'm gonna need more ammunition.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 22:04 | 860664 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Put 'em right next to Jimmy Hoffa. Nobody will ever find them.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 04:25 | 855354 Mr Poopra
Mr Poopra's picture

You are in fact more correct than you think.  The nuke option was on the table and was actually removed by, let's say, "higher" sources.  Chicago was the city i was told.  Where did you get this information?

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 04:44 | 855364 Dustnshadow
Dustnshadow's picture

I'm sad realizing the people of the Land of the Free are writing disclaimers like this.


Fri, 01/07/2011 - 05:01 | 855375 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

the kid makes a lot of sense though.  rahm's first loyalty is to israel and a small device on say the south side, not anywhere near north shore mind you, would be far better for israel than the continued waning of american passion for the beleaguered little zionist entity.  what it would do for the continuing police state of the union would be gravy.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 08:35 | 855525 ReeferMac
ReeferMac's picture


The irony of writing a disclaimer to a completely farcical anonymous internet posting apparently was missed by everyone else.

Too many Jews living in Chico, they'll never hit it. middle-of-fucking-nowhere-nebraska, that's my bet. Maybe something closer to the coast, down in the SE Seaboard, so the radiation doesn't fuckup those Orange groves in Florida (gotta have fresh-squeezed).

Atlanta sounds nice, nothing 'desireable' living there... Maybe clean the town up at the same time?

'Course, I didn't mean to offend any of our Zionist rulers with that statement, so please don't come after me, just a whimsical bit of fiction, is all... LOL!

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 10:42 | 855947 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Do you realize many people who died in the WTC were Jewish?

A few martyrs are always factored into the equation.  As long as its not one of Them.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:51 | 854561 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Year to date statistics on Airport screening from the Department of Homeland Security:

Terrorist Plots  Discovered               0

Transvestites                                 133

Hernias                                        1,485

Hemorrhoid  Cases                     3,172

Enlarged  Prostates                    8,249

Breast  Implants                        59,350

Natural  Blondes                                3

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:58 | 854574 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

har har har!

No, I'm smiling when I say that.

But not actually ROFL or LMAO. But, LOL sort of.

Actually HHHOL.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 21:07 | 854600 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Hmm you know I wonder if I'm allowed to ask for a female to grope me next time I fly. Smile, make a little small talk "Be gentle this is my first time", "So do you do this a lot". Wonder if there are any rules about wearing underwear. If they are going to stick their hands down my pants they should feel nuts.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 21:17 | 854644 Irwin Fletcher
Irwin Fletcher's picture

They wear groping gloves. I've thought about that too, but next time I've decided to request the more modest, 'could I not be groped by a flaming homosexual?' That happened to me this summer before groping became the new normal, and I about lost my cookies.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 23:43 | 855001 creviceCaress
creviceCaress's picture

i got underwear...some bacon grease in key spots, BUT...not too much, you want 'em to feel it just enuff to get a little slide....something they're not used to.  then of course the aroma will get a nice reaction.  i advise walking around like this for a coupla days beforehand...justa get used to it, of course....heh,heh...i mean,whats to say some people don't get a sexual fulfillment from experiencing their bodies in news ways?  no law on that one?

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 00:49 | 855084 barkster
barkster's picture

reid will rush that law through this week.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:20 | 855235 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Maybe pop a Viagra beforehand too.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 08:07 | 855510 velobabe
velobabe's picture

sarong, no undies.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 22:19 | 854821 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Breast Implants, never an odd number H.m.m.m.m....

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 23:38 | 854994 Overpowered By Funk
Overpowered By Funk's picture

What, no cukes wrapped in aluminium foil?

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 00:29 | 855057 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Nine times out of ten it's an electric razor, but every once in a while -- it's a dildo. Of course it's company policy never to, imply ownership in the event of a dildo... always use the indefinite article a dildo, never your dildo.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:53 | 855279 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

If it was Stephanopoulos... The security guy would say:

"Never your dildo...but... You're a dildo..."

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 05:05 | 855378 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

again, a smear on an honorable and beloved appliance (more, even, than the douche bag).  what have dildos ever done to deserve such an odious comparison?

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 08:05 | 855507 velobabe
velobabe's picture

no matching carpets to the drapes, uh?

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 20:36 | 860407 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

I was the tranny with the hernia and enlarged prostate. This messed up their stats a bit.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 07:57 | 855499 velobabe
velobabe's picture

my friend jessica just traveled to europe from the USofA. only to find out later she could of refused the Xray for a feel up grope. she said she also had to have an Xray in Amsterdam. what is up with Amsterdam

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:53 | 854388 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Which is that all property including the bodies and minds of it's citizens belong to the state.  The rhetoric of freedom has replaced freedom.  The masses content with creature comforts did not notice the change.  Now slowly but surly the creature comforts will be removed even as the rhetoric is increased.  We will have new freedoms, such as the freedom to report on one's neighbor for crimes against the state, like hoarding.

Quite funny that after so many years of the cold war we are in the midst of recreating own new soviet.  My personal fear is that this new soviet will take a Mao or Stalinist bent.  After all we have public overlords openly praising Mao.  Look at your neighbors and those around you, how many of them would rat you out for personal gain?  "We are all in it together"

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:03 | 854428 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

+1000 comrad!

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:07 | 854442 Racer
Racer's picture

Take one free frog, place in water, add heat slowly gradually warming.

tenderising process is best produced over a very slow flame, only when final wound salt added is high heat applied to finally kill off the human in frogs clothing

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 22:47 | 854885 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

 "The rhetoric of freedom has replaced freedom"

At some point rhetoric of this nature has a price attached.

I applaud the thought and turn of phrase, well done!

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 13:35 | 856640 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"The rhetoric of freedom has replaced freedom."

there it is.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 01:59 | 855204 Financial Noose
Financial Noose's picture

Aldous Huxley many years ago said, and I paraphrase, the more capitalists interact with communists, the more the communists will become capitalists, and the more the capitalists will become communists.

The dude was way ahead of his time.


Fri, 01/07/2011 - 11:24 | 856096 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Man, I was just making the BNW juxtaposition myself.  Soma anyone?

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 11:57 | 856244 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

aldous was way ahead

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 17:50 | 868276 Guy Fawkes Mulder
Guy Fawkes Mulder's picture

Capitalists = communists = oligarchs and oligopolists.

Huxley was aware of oligarchy.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:53 | 854386 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

A Modest Proposal - Jonathan Swift

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:56 | 854396 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Your quandary is answered simply by the old saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". Many of today's intentions though, to continue and even expand this farce, are not so good.

I do not know if collapse is a mathematical certainly. I do know that the sooner it happens, the better off we will be...I prefer to avoid the need for  violent revolt.

BUY PHYSICAL SILVER and drain the swap.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:02 | 854416 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Yes it is mathematically certain.  The GDP number is a sham, double counts gov spending.  So look at a GDP of say 7 Trillion and then look at the nominal debt, then look at the unfunded liabilities and the GSEs.  100% lock, this pig will sink.  It's held up by faith and magic, and one of those will give way.  Well they could devalue the dollar by say 90% and keep the liabilities static and balance it out, but that means the old are going to eat cat food and stray dogs and live in tents.  But then old tend ot vote so that does not seem to likely.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:08 | 854446 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

The old may not be getting much older. They will need government approval to receive health care very soon, and I'm getting the feeling that unless you know somebody high up the bureaucratic ladder, you'll be hard pressed to even get your prescriptions renewed.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 05:11 | 855381 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

now now.  you mean get your prescriptions paid for by the govt.  you'll get them filled if you can pay for it.  they will take your money to the very end.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 22:52 | 854899 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

You think they still count votes...?

The electronic voting machines fix all of that.  Who's to say 51% of people didn't vote for that guy?  If you question, you must be a terrorist.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 01:06 | 855114 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

++ to that. I still think about the size of production and setup they did for Obama just after the final election results.

That production took months to acquire the facility, plan the event, hire the crew, security and set it all up..

They know well in advance who the next president is..

2012 is already chosen..  you bet ya!

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 05:13 | 855383 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

now now.  you always plan to win.  you buy balloons and champagne even if you eventually lose.  obama (probably) won fair and square.  after bush apparently race wasn't even enough of a drawback; probably helped with some (did with me).  it's what the sorry sack has done since that's the crime.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 13:41 | 856667 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

candidate O had already picked geithner/summers for his econ team....

How could you vote FOR him?!?!

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 23:02 | 854920 Seer
Seer's picture

All distracting, and unnecessary details...  The entire GAME is based on the fundamental flaw of endless growth on a finite planet*.  Again, what else does anyone figure the outcome to be other than complete collapse in the face of dwindling resources and expanding demand?

* In tribute to the late great Gerry Rafferty- clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.  On one side there are techo-heads who believe that technology will solve our problems, like landing on another planet (NASA), and on the other are the religious fanatics who think that someone from outerspace will come and rescue us.

BTW - Hat's off to you for several excellent posts!

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 00:07 | 855028 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

The two ways to control people are "hope" and "fear".

Hope for infinite growth

Hope for life everlasting

Hope for something better for our children

Hope that a finite planet will become an infinite universe.

It is understandable why those in charge would want to keep hope alive and also why they would subject the populace to a campaign of terror... to maintain control.


Fri, 01/07/2011 - 03:06 | 855292 Thanatos
Thanatos's picture

Get some agar and some bacteria... You can do a time lapse of where we are heading...

A big grey dead mass... And no growth media is where it always ends up...

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 05:21 | 855388 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

you and the others making a similar point have something:  the operation of the modern publicly traded corporation run by agents supposedly for the stockholders is at very serious war with the limited ecosystem on which our lives depend.  only exponential growth is rewarded exponentially.  and that is the kind of reward the insatiable rich require.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 22:33 | 854858 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

I do not know if collapse is a mathematical certainly.

If you don't know by now, you're not listening or just don't get it. $14 trillion divided into the number of citizens is about $46k per citizen. Divide that into the no. of employed citizens and the amount rises to abot $140,000. Divide that amount into the wealth creators  in private industry and the amount leaps to about $300,000 each person. Now add the unfunded liabilities that the taxes for social security was supposed to pay, rather than going into General Revenue where the government has already spent your retirement benefits for you. Are you getting the picture or do you just refuse to listen.

Listen to the tape above again. We are spending $4 trillion per annum and our revenue is $2 trillion. Do the fucking math and stop making ignorant statements.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 23:09 | 854928 Seer
Seer's picture

And, if we weren't massively in debt, how long do you think that the capitalist game of extract-the-world's-resouces-as-fast-as-possible would go on?

Endless growth on a finite planet, that's all you need to understand.  Most of this other stuff is merely petty party politics!

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 01:36 | 855171 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Yup, that too! What a fucking mess led by a group of mastermind crooks and followed blindly by a group of wanna believe marks. These "Tip-toe-through-the-tulips" types are really starting to yank my chain. Here is the evidence spoken quite plainly and thiese dolts cant do simple maths. We're truly fucked.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 20:26 | 857906 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Seer, thanks, excellent posts.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:35 | 854512 blindman
blindman's picture

@.." a private citizenship cannot sell a child into debt slavery.  Why cannot a parent take their child into a car dealership and sign them up for debt slavery for a car?"


read the fine print of your credit card agreement.  to do what you

suggest regarding parents actions toward the children would be

defrauding a bank, or impersonating a bank.  or acting without

a charter as an unauthorized agent of the federal reserve,

patently illegal. 

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 01:31 | 855071 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Why cannot a parent take their child out of school, er, i mean state education camps, and social security, and forced vaccinations, and forced entry, and mind pollution?


LOL, just kidding.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:08 | 855216 Financial Noose
Financial Noose's picture

You can.  It's called Home Schooling.  No Indian Genocide studies, no 2+2 = 5 means close enough, vocabulary is taken to the next level to etymology, no behavioral problems, respect for God, country, fellow man, etc.  Unfortunately, it's not for everyone.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:20 | 855230 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

"It's called Home Schooling"


No, really?

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 06:10 | 855408 4xaddict
4xaddict's picture


Fri, 01/07/2011 - 14:32 | 856868 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Just keep paying property taxes so we can show you how we make uncompetitive things competitive.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 22:24 | 854833 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

Well it could be as simple as a parents unconditional love.  Something I am sure the government would need a football sized stadium filled with lawyers to define for them.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 09:46 | 855680 tamboo
Fri, 01/07/2011 - 13:29 | 856602 Nikao7
Nikao7's picture

Pentagon employees buying pornography.  Shocking (sarcasm off)


Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:42 | 854344 FatFingered
FatFingered's picture

Exactly!  That is why I am trying to have as many babies as I can. 

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:15 | 855223 Financial Noose
Financial Noose's picture

EVERYONE on this website should be the only ones having the babies!!!  They would make sure those babies grow up informed, have a deep respect for money, not fall prey to stupidity and excess marketing, be guided by intellectual endevoures rather than constant sensual pleasures, et al.  Just imagine a Western World built on ZH babies!!! 

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 13:58 | 856728 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"Oh Velobabe!!"

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:55 | 854390 freeloader2011
freeloader2011's picture


Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:01 | 854413 rocker
rocker's picture

I kind of remember that Kennedy went against the banking cartel called the FED.  He was shot and killed.

Will Ron Paul and son really do what they say, "End the FED".  We shall see. I'll believe it when I see it.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:28 | 854503 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Yeah and in those days they had to go through all this conspiracy rigamarole. Now, Jamie or Lloyd could just send somebody over to cut his throat on CSPAN.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 22:27 | 854839 The Limerick King
The Limerick King's picture

I send this one out to the Pauls

Two men with a large set of balls

If the don't end up dead

They may soon end the FED

And then cheer as cleptocracy falls

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 22:49 | 854897 Vernon Wormer
Vernon Wormer's picture


Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:21 | 855233 Financial Noose
Financial Noose's picture

I say take a sensible half step whenever someone says "end the fed!"  It reminds me of that episode on Southpark where Kyle's dad keeps saying "Dey took 'er jubs!" (dressed in his best redneck camoflauge and holding a beer can).  Instead, use the Senate's right to call upon the Fed to account for their activities 2 times a year and tell them in no uncertain terms, you guys f*%^ up this economy, we have a bill just waiting in the wings to be presented to pull you guys up by the long hairs and make you accountable to the people.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:30 | 855239 Milton Waddams
Milton Waddams's picture

The lament cycle...

seems to run -- shockingly -- every eight years.

The do cycle is stuck at 0, this meter does not go to -1 until everyone is under a system of global governorship

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 04:06 | 855344 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

“No-worries” said the economists in the year 2000, we can export all our factories to China and Mexico and rely on “innovative financial engineering” instead; and life was good.


Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:48 | 854369 Landrew
Landrew's picture

"total economic collapse of the USA is a mathematical certainty " hum, I would love to see the equation you used. Possibility yes, certainty, not possible.


Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:35 | 854444 Michael
Michael's picture

I know the total combined public and private debt of our country is well over 300 trillion dollars. Think derivatives.

That's what I call a mathematical certainty.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 22:25 | 854827 centerline
centerline's picture

p = p + i

There you go.  (hint:  parabolic funtions are to blame).

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 17:57 | 868304 Guy Fawkes Mulder
Guy Fawkes Mulder's picture

p < p + i

There you go. (hint: the word is "exponential")

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 22:52 | 854904 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Please provide an equation, any rational equation, that proves the economic collapse of the USA is not an absolute certainty.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 23:15 | 854942 Seer
Seer's picture

No, it's not a certainty, especially if the US defaults on its debts (and then nukes the rest of the world).  But... I suppose that based on fair play it's a certainty in that there's not enough resources to export to both pay off its debts and maintain its current levels of consumption (forget about also growing!).

But, if you really have to have an equation:

Perpetual growth on a finite planet = collpase

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:24 | 855214 Michael
Michael's picture

Here is you're first lesson that proves the collapse is a mathematical certainty. The laws of exponentional functions cannot be ignored. Our goal should be for max growth rates to be about .01% I suggest all watch all 8 parts.

The Most IMPORTANT Video You'll Ever See (part 1 of 8)

Lesson 2 is even better.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:22 | 855237 Financial Noose
Financial Noose's picture

China Surplus > US Deficit.  Is that the kind of math that works here?

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 00:12 | 855043 creviceCaress
creviceCaress's picture





right on homeskillet*


if yer readin these posts, we all understand that the spectacle is vibrating at a loco rate and it's gonna pop at some crack or seam  somewhere, soon.  right?  maaaybe.....ya just cant underestimate the power of the spectacle and the ruthless cunning driving it.  love and wisdom trump ruthlessness and cunning in the long run, but i think the race kinda just started, no?  i believe its pretty likely that what we see now will be the same/BAU (minus general degradation to a varying rate plus new toys/more controls) 5-8 years from now.  maybe ten.  and my only measily little piece of stone to stand and say that on is carved from the terrible, wondrous, mind-boggling shit thewy've gotten away with for..? how long?......10  much longer.   i just kinda think they got lots more miles to squeeze out of it all. frickin asshats.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 01:42 | 855181 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Ok, you are either Jim Carrey or Jeff Daniels. Dumb or dumber? Nobody can still be that closed off to the facts , can they? Fuck me, even my dog gets it.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:08 | 854441 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture



Well Michael, a system based on legalized theft (taxation), and the force needed to back it up,  will always become the stronghold of thieves, murderers and perverts, it is always just a matter of time.



Thu, 01/06/2011 - 22:46 | 854883 slyhill
slyhill's picture


Fri, 01/07/2011 - 01:44 | 855182 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Like eeeveryyyy FUCKING DAY. Sheesh!

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:15 | 855208 Michael
Michael's picture

The only thing that matters now is we must get good moral people in that fucking government who knows how the system is supposed to work, so they can be there to pick up the pieces and properly put things back together. We the people must be constantly vigilant and get on their asses to do the proper thing for the people. The framework is still sound, ie constitution.  It may take charges of treason and maybe even guillotines. We got all the information on the internet and in our heads we need to expose all the ulterior motives of the bad eggs passing laws for their own and their friends gain. Too many laws to list must be repealed, TBTF banks must be broken up, and Glass Steagall reinstated. It's not fucking rocket science.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:28 | 855245 Financial Noose
Financial Noose's picture

God bless you dude for wanting moral people in charge, but I always fear that devious people always have the edge on moral or principled people because there are things evil people will do to grab power that moral people will not do.  My ideal preference is someone who appears evil and nasty but behind the scenes does good.  Keeps the enemy off guard.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 06:17 | 855412 4xaddict
4xaddict's picture

Unfortunately Michael it's the people with said morals who are also stopped from saying Merry Christmas publicly now but rather happy holidays. There are a lot of home truths that need to be given but the PC movement has them bound and gagged. It's become one of the most successful tools for middle-class repression ever.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 12:03 | 856272 darkaeye
darkaeye's picture

Eddie Murphy in "The Distinguished Gentleman" kinda thing.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 05:52 | 855401 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

At this point, only one thing matters.  We need people in office who are willing to fuck with TPTB hard enough to restore a semblance of Constitutionalism.  This country is going down, FOR SURE.  The best that we can hope for is to have enough remaining freedoms when it happens to be able rebuild it without having United Nations APC's looking down on you from every hilltop.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 12:02 | 856274 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

can't see this without the destruction of the exisiting parties. Nothing short of a revolution

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 03:59 | 855311 hambone
hambone's picture

Imagine if you will that American congressmen, our president, demanded that a min of 5%, 10%, 15% of product for all companies who do biz in US be made in the US?  Imagine we allow companies to pick and choose what makes most sense but raise duties on those not following through? 

This won't fix unemployment or our trade deficit but will mean new factories, new vendors, new support, new supply chains, American frickin ingenuity.  This would be a meager first step to begin preparing for a world where oil prices, rising labor costs, inflation no longer justify centralized global production.  This is the first step to begin preparing for the hereafter, the American Marshall plan!!!

Why as a nation wouldn't we mandate that if you want to sell to America, some of the product must be made here?  Are our politicians so afraid what China or Japan would do?  The trade wars that would break out?  What, China might stop buying T's?  Think we're already there.  Or do they fear the corporations?  Remember (as Trav pointed out) increased margins and earnings for corporations almost never result in lower prices for US consumers...just higher profits for companies to then be utilized to further offshore more non-value jobs.  This is a death spiral and no country can run such a ridiculous trade deficit for long.  

Imagine if we took the first steps to rekindle the boilers.  This is the only way we won't be at the wim of foreign manufacturers of everything (all this coming from a guy who's worked on 4 continents for the largest international corporations...corporations only think of how to acheive greater sales, profit...not about who may be hurt along the way).

BTW - gotta include a domestic energy policy as part of our Marshall plan to have a big goal to move all trucking and/or government vehicles to nat gas within 2 or 4 years and then look to scale out from there...again, cuts trade deficit, creates jobs, infrastructure, prepares for the post collapse world.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 03:46 | 855331 bigelkhorn
bigelkhorn's picture

Alot of people think we are doomed, but there are still great ways to make money. Even while the economy is collapsing around us.

I subscribe to the guy from australia and his FFT economic newsletter at that guy has called many big events before they have happend, including the stock market crash in 2008 and the current financial collapse of the US. (currently happening) I found him from a friend last year, and he has some important work.

His oil calls are insane, and I have been making good money with them. He is well worth a look, if you want to keep two steps ahead of the sheeple out there.

I am worried about my financial future. Is anyone else nervous out there?

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 04:04 | 855343 hambone
hambone's picture

Nervous?  I wish I felt that good.  I'm in the top 2% of income earners in America and I know I have no real skills in a post collapse want based world collapse.  We will go more to a need based world in the post collapse where people w/ real skills to produce goods, grow food will be the important folks.  Folks like me will be dime a dozen and mostly dead weight (if we're not already).

Nervous?  I'd say cautiously optimistic we collapse but find a level of support and I can find a new productive role in that society.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 06:29 | 855418 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Kudos to one of the few truly honest posters here.  There is (probably) time for you allay much of your fear if you are serious about it.  A huge part of the equation is how attached you are to remaining in that 2%, where you currently live, and how hard are you REALLY willing to work to improve your odds?

Another huge piece of the puzzle is how seriously you think shit is really going to break down.  There are MAGs (mutual aid/assistance groups) forming all over the country that you could look into, where you MAY (depending on your life circumstances right now) be able to maintain your current life and plan to join up if the SHTF.

Skills are secondary to a willingness and ability to work.  Most of the people who are in a position to start MAGS already know how to build shit and do things.  In my case, I can teach people how to do things, the willingness to work from dark to dark is what's important.  And difficult to find. 

Finding a group may be more difficult than you think; having money helps, but is not the key to the city.  I have been looking for two years for the right people to join together; it is nearly impossible.  I find that people I would be willing to have come stay with me are already sufficient enough that they aren't looking to change what they have going.  Most people who want to stay with me are summarily rejected because they (or their family) will are simply too sedentary and I feel they would be a hindrance.  Then there are those that would reject me once they see that a "retreat" really means Little House on the Prairie.

I used to be nervous.  I've made a lot of changes (mostly philosophical) in the last few years.  I hardly live in a bunker, but all of my choices have been getting me one step closer to saying, "Fuck the system".  The bulls and trolls here may scoff and joke about canned hams, but my short term goal is to move back to a minimalist lifestyle.  I'm not ready yet, one never really is, but I'm really not nervous anymore.  At least not about what I'll do if the lights blink out. 

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 15:16 | 857064 hambone
hambone's picture

Thanks CC,

appreciate the insight - however I have to balance the reality of my wife who is on another planet regarding all this...I love her and couldn't get by without her (or my kids) but also wouldn't try to bring her to my point of view.  It's not enjoyable (I don't recognize myself anymore somedays...feel like I'm an actor pretending to believe in all the BS and fairy tales) and I don't think she or many others can handle pulling back (lifestyle, friends, spending, etc.) that would be neccessary.  I'm doing my best to discretly prepare for a worst case scenario and hope for the best.

Best to you

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 18:19 | 857686 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

I am so fortunate that my wife and I have the same point of view and are working together on this.  Both of my children also love the outdoors and are hard workers so it makes for a relatively cohesive family unit.  If you don't read it already, I would HIGHLY recommend: 

There are hundreds of archived articles submitted by readers who are in your same boat.  Maybe you can glean inspiratin from some of them.  One thing that I know is effective is to operate on the tangent that you are preparing for a natural disaster scenario rather than TEOTWAWKI.  Using scenarios like Katrina, Haiti, blizzards, etc. and their ensuing chaos as examples are quite often enough to get a hesitant spouse on board; at least to an extent. 

Also, any of the books by James Wesley Rawles will contain invaluable food for thought.

Good luck to you and your family.  Just the fact that you are aware and planning gives you a huge edge. 



Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:10 | 854247 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

You have a typo.  Two of them is too (many) few.

There you go....all better.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:16 | 854273 tickhound
tickhound's picture

yeah.. real change would be hard, huh.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:44 | 854354 Michael
Michael's picture

They should ask Dr. Paul how much it cost to deliver a baby in 1978($1,400) and how much it costs today($11,000) when talking about inflation. Dr Paul should Know, he delivered over 4,000 babies.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 21:54 | 854761 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

And I would love to hear Dr. Bernanke's explanation of how, after substitution and hedonic adjustment, the price of today's babies hasn't really gone up at all. 

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 22:44 | 854878 Michael
Michael's picture

Oh, I forgot about lizard people.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:15 | 855224 Fearless Rick
Fearless Rick's picture

You mean Condolezza?

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 01:03 | 855110 Dburn
Dburn's picture

$1700 in 1978 = $5783.00 in 2010

Seems to be bit more inflation in medical rates than the over-all cost of living increases. It's wonder no one counts that.

So the Doctors are earning twice the rate of inflation (the real rate) while patients can't keep up with the BS rate of inflation. Something is gonna break real soon in that industry. No one would be able to afford insurance Obama-care or not. Blue Shield is going for the all-time record in CA with a 59% increase this year. Anthem Blue Cross dropped their increase to 25% when everyone bitched about 39%. Funny, 4 months later another 14% increase went through.

Now Aetna has got this shit down cold. They do a county-by-county profit and loss and if a county crosses in the red, presumably because two people got cancer and actually had the nerve to use their insurance to fight it, they cancel the whole county.

They 've gotten rid of 9 million policy holders in the last decade that way. You would thing a natural reaction is to want more customers, not less, but Aetna got that Orange squeezed when they calculated in the anti-trust exemption.

So who raises rates first? The providers or the Insurance companies? I always wondered about that.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:46 | 855271 Michael
Michael's picture

It's all about the math. Age is of no consequence to them, but an important factor in their calculations.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:28 | 855249 Financial Noose
Financial Noose's picture

Let's hope he can deliver a miracle in this 112th Congress.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:51 | 854556 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

two of them is too many.

And who would you have advocating your side?

And what side are you on?

Liking the Ponzi are you?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:06 | 854227 Michael
Michael's picture

Everyone knows when you cut 1 trillion dollars and balance the budget, that equals 2 million government employees laid off. It also means another 2 million ancillary jobs lost and a drop in GDP of more than 5%. Those laid off workers would quickly turn against the Democrats, which is why they will not cut government spending.


Maybe I'm the only one who knows that.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:10 | 854244 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Yes Micheal, you're the lone genius in the room.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:13 | 854255 Michael
Michael's picture


Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:50 | 854381 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

Hook, line, sinker, and the f'n anvil. Shall we try for the kitchen sink?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:43 | 854536 Michael
Michael's picture

CD knows what he is talking about.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 20:40 | 860416 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Please don't say my name in vain.

Hook, Line, and Sphincter

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:47 | 854544 SloSquez
SloSquez's picture


Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:15 | 854270 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

You, and old Alex.

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:58 | 854575 I Am The Unknow...
I Am The Unknown Comic's picture

Holy shit!  Thanks for that quote Faustian Bargain.  I have read Tocqueville and often pride myself on thinking I can paraphrase his ideology.  I have no memory of this quote (shame on me!) but I am getting quite old and have forgotten more than most have learned.  It is nice to see this and re-learn.  Thank you.  This is spot on.

 The operative word is "bribe" and that is exactly what is happening now....

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:22 | 855236 Fearless Rick
Fearless Rick's picture

Geez, dude. Get out to the range once in a while, huh?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:28 | 854294 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Pretty much, yeah.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:29 | 854303 chet
chet's picture

Okay, then why won't the GOP cut government spending?

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 01:47 | 855178 Julia
Julia's picture

I think that's pretty obvious. The Ponzi relies on government spending at this point. GOP/DEM--means nothing.

Tyler--please put up a well written piece under the manifesto that explains this once and for all! I am so sick of this left/right nonsense. It's just there to distract you. Your vote means nothing. The PTB are not your local congressman or senator.

I liked this on Dylan Ratigan the other day--if Pro is the opposite of Con--the what is the opposite of progress.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:31 | 855253 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

GOP = Bunch of worthless cocksuckers

DEM = Bunch of worthless cocksuckers


Any questions?

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 12:07 | 856287 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

well said, the math makes it necessary and their masters are the same. They are all thieves.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:00 | 854406 hardmedicine
hardmedicine's picture

See now THAT'S why I come to zero hedge.  I mean, when I think of 2 million unemployed government parasites walking out of their office for the last time tomorrow and having to really produce something or create value I just want to party.  Why can't the non-government people just stand up and demand it?

Or we could all be divided up into "councils of 150" and each council could decide on just one government employee to give the pink slip to.  I don't see anything wrong with that>  What could possibly be more delicious?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:20 | 854480 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

Well, you can pretty much count on the military taking the majority of the downsizing hits  first, since they can all just be pushed into college or vocational training with their GI Bills and keep the unemployment numbers doctored for a few years more.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:49 | 854551 SloSquez
SloSquez's picture

I could take a 100 Gov't employees and do something productive - guaranteed.  Just sayin.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 21:40 | 854729 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture


60% of federal civil servants work for the Pentagon, homeland security, or the CIA.

Add to that the uniformed military, and unclassified political appointees.

A trillion dollars a year is spent DIRECTLY on militarism. Add to that private weapons, privately paid security, and overseas arms dealing.

The trillions of dollars handed out to the MIC and to financial racketeers are the primary cause of the dislocated economy and inequity of wealth and power in the US.


Thu, 01/06/2011 - 23:07 | 854927 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture


Fri, 01/07/2011 - 14:04 | 856761 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture


Like i said before...

ALL of amerika's problems can be laid at the feet of her korpsorations

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:05 | 854432 Vagabond
Vagabond's picture

"that equals 2 million government employees laid off"

Where do I sign?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 21:37 | 854707 snowball777
snowball777's picture

At the Marine recruiting station.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 21:18 | 854646 RSDallas
RSDallas's picture


I think if we do it right we can accomplish it over say a 3 to 5 year period.  It's got to be done regardless of the unintended consequences, wouldn't you agree?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 21:28 | 854676 Michael
Michael's picture

There should be a government hiring celing always to be voted on by we the people. I think much of it could be accomplishe through attrition. One way or another the total number of government employees will shrink. 

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 06:27 | 855415 4xaddict
4xaddict's picture

Nice in theory but where does the micromanagement of the government then end? Sounds more like Simpson's style mob politics to me. Maybe start by making people vote in the first place so these crooks don't get in on the back of apathy again.

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:20 | 855231 Fearless Rick
Fearless Rick's picture

Hey, I see you're still trying to get $10 for a blow job when the going rate is $40 and still no takers. Canker sores?

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 02:35 | 855257 Financial Noose
Financial Noose's picture

You could lay off as many workers in the government as it takes to re-deploy them in new or existing "private" sectors that will provide an incremental positive tax base on which to assess taxes which exceed the cost of keeping said government worker in his existing job. What that would be...I have no f*cking clue.  I just read it in an Econ 101 book that just popped out of my a$$.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:09 | 854231 gbresnahan
gbresnahan's picture

What's the point of having a debt ceiling if we always raise it?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:12 | 854253 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

1) having the debt ceiling shows resolve to manage a catastrophe.

2) raising the debt ceiling shows resolve to prevent a catastrophe.

See. I told you it made sense. Oh wait put on these rose-colored glasses, it might help.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!