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Ron Paul: "The U.S. Government Must Admit It Is Bankrupt"
Any time you bring the two Pauls together in an interview, and start discussing items such as the debt ceiling, government spending, and monetary policy you know the results will be good. Sure enough, in this rare ABC interview with father and son, the sparks fly, and among the topic touched is the most popular story on Zero Hedge from yesterday, namely President Obama fabulous hypocrisy, who after bashing the debt ceiling as a senator 4 years ago, has bet the outcome of his entire economic policy on maxing out every single credit card available to him. Paul's response: "we have to face the fact that we are bankrupt and we can't pay our bills." Not exactly the kind of thing one wants to hear if one's name is Hu Jintao. That said you know the Paul-led interrogation of Bernanke will be something else, even if it is ultimately totally fruitless.
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Suddenly it's all so clear, and it was right in front of my trunk the whole time. Nothing could possibly go wrong with a win win, right?
yep...it looks good to me....
What do the debt ceiling and UN resolutions to 3rd world dictators with nuke programs have in common? You always tell them, "don't you dare extend this program any more, or I'll come back and tell you...uh...well,uh...don't do that anymore!!"
You gots to raise da ceiling if you wanna raise da roof yo.
Luv your legs, baby! yo
You gots to raise da ceiling if you want to make the pie higher!
if you want the human being and fish to coexist peacefully...you'll raise that roof!
I understand that Hu Jintao is considering a name change to Hu Zo Daddi
His sons, Hung Lo and Bang Dae Ho.
Don't forget Fuk Da Fed
Hu wishes he could, but that is the number 10 and number 11 sons' mum.
He will soon be known as Li King Klam once the US defaults and fucks China royally.
Go Long Dong
Debt ceilings are for pussies. A real man won't let fag debt ceilings hold him back, no sir. You just thrust right through that thin barrier -- yeah baby -- it hurts a little but she'll love you for it. First time is forever.
Wait, who changed the subject?
Wait a minute. Isn't that how Julian Assange got into all his trouble?
So Sigmund, Am I correct in interpreting your diagnosis of The Bernank as being severely sexually inhibited with a de Sade level fixation on breaking through illusionary barriers?
Yes, Julian had a hymen.
You had me at "thrust"
You seem to have some sort of obsession. I just can't put my finger on it.
..so you do not work for the TSA....
They'll let Paul amuse himself for a while and try to make him look silly. The Ben Bernanke will show up and refuse to answer anything directly. The end result will be inconclusive. QEIII to begin on schedule.
That's what I think too.
Ron Paul needs to channel a little Aaron Burr.
Or alot of Ben-Hur
The two Paul's One Two punch will be great theater even of the game is rigged.
I watch Big Time Wrassling for the hokey drama. I know they are faking it, if I wanted real wrassling I'd hang out at a biker bar.
Chicks wrestling topless in jello is real?
Are you kidding? Those chicks are actual haters. It's all sisterhood and kumbaiya until the first one pulls some hair, and then the claws come out.
Claws and boobies come out. (If they bother to start in bikini tops)
Bare naked chicks wrassling in jello..., what's not to like?
Having to drain the skanky liquid mess in the morning from the plastic kiddie pool.
Hmm...somewhere in that line there is an economic analogy.
something about people with superior ideas thinking along the same lines...
It's pretty to think so, on the other hand it may just be that we have friends in low places;)
You got me thinking of that mud wrestling scene in Stripes with John Candy. Yeah baby!
How can we be bankrupt? We still have a printing press and ink.
best!
...how's our credit line holding up with the suppliers...90 days past due...wake me when we reach 180...
Hush, now. You'll wake the sheeple.
Both should avoid flying in Cessnas.
That would only happen if they started taking him seriously.
Two dumbshits don't make a right
Neither does one.
If any of these people gave a damn we would see 15% budget cuts across the board. Instead we have elephants "protecting defense" and donkeys with their little projects.
Everyone loses except the newly elected who are now on the "get rich quick" plan.
Rand hasn't been very impressive where I've seen him so I'll leave him aside, but what specifically has Ron done to justify labeling him "dumbshit"?
He fumbles for words now and then, but his arguments and actions have made him nothing short of legendary.
Agreed, Ron Paul is da man. Baby Paul is a dumbshit.
Weee 15 junks. New record tonight. Thanks all
You're up to 18 now, dumbshit
Now up to 33, last one was mine.
The Pauls are the best hope we have.
Hey, I didn't even bother to junk him and it was 37 when I passed by. I did piss on his leg though.
42 and counting, oh i forgot to junk so 43.
love the junk clock or spinning wheel thingy, tyler
They are the best hope to give us enough time to get our nalgas the hell out of here.
Although I admire Paul for his stamina for bringing up the right issues time and again, it saddens me to say: "To no avail"
Americans are unworthy of him. He might as well be talking to a brick wall.
LMAO
With the Zionists in charge, it don't matter one bit what the Pauls think, say, or do. They know it, we know it, every sentient converter of oxygen to Co2 knows it.
I'd rather do something more constructive with my time. Counting the number of venereal diseases among the "HouseWhores from Jew Nersey" would be far more fruitful.
Yes indeed. Common sense, Austrian Economics, and fiscal responsibility do not belong in that whorehouse we refer to as "congress."
+1. Sun Tzu "The art of whore"
that's insulting to whores.
no kidding
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't little Randy just flip-flopped on this issue in less than 24hrs and now he might consider voting yes to raise the debt ceiling? Tea party my ass...
Tea parties are like all parties. Once the formalities are over, the real drinking begins. And when the real drinking begins, you start hearing shit you wish you hadn't.
and then the next day you don't remember any of it.
Down the Memory Hole
by G. Uhafabig Orsewell.
Got a link?
No?
Then go fuck yourself.
Though you weren't addressing me, I knew I saw this somewhere today. Sorry.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/ron-and-rand-paul-disagee-over-how-to-fight-debt-ceiling-battle/
He said he would raise it IF they passed a balanced budget by law. I think that's a concession in the right direction. They've raised it 7 times in the past five years without such a law, so the alternative is far worse.
Balanced budget ? Wouldn't they need to table one first ?
I think Rand is initimating a balanced budget amendment. If Ghouls-bee wants to play chicken, make them agree to fasttrack such a thing.
Keep in mind that Rand's vote is purely symbolic, because Democrats control the senate and have enough votes to raise the debt limit without any Republicans. Rand is just positioning himself to appear reasonable, not an ideologue nutcase; but will 100% certainly cast a symbolic vote against the raise. Most or all Republicans will do so, leaving Democrats to hold the bag in the eyes of voters.
The real action is in the House, where Repubs have the votes to say no, and will need to squirm and spin and find a way to say yes. Probably it goes like this: Obama will throw them a worthless prize in the form of binding deficit targets after the 2012 elections.
Not a law, a rule. And rules are made to be broken.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=176610
Not exactly...
"I’ll vote to raise the debt ceiling if we attach a balanced budget rule to it. If they say no more debt will be added and from here on out we’ll balance the budget, I’ll vote one time to raise the debt ceiling.”
No problem doing a balanced budget. They'll just push most of the spending off budget. You know, like zombie banks push most of their losses off the books.
Think of all the spending already off budget. Like CIA black ops and such.
Criminals are going to do proper accounting? Forget it.
I love how the interviewer obviously has no idea what the shit is going on. (just like most of the sheeple)
Edit: Also there is an inherent problem with the Pauls' plan. If they are successful, as other's have pointed out, there will be a huge withdrawal of (printed) liquidity in our country causing a protracted depression that would be required to delever from all the mal-investment and unproductive obligation. This is inevitable, either through debt reduction or printing, but because few actually understand this.
So ... If the Pauls are they will likely be successful in gaining the ire of the stupid populace as well - because (in their ignorant eyes) it was they who took away their sweet sweet welfare/military/nanny state.
Not to worry. Would never happen. Should it look like the Pauls could rally that kind of reform, which would be nothing short of a miracle, they would need many more miracles. There would be plane crashes, heart attacks, and suicides to escape as well. Only hope is that the Pauls are actually from the planet Krypton.
After all both the left and right have claimed the power to murder US citizens that are enemies of the state without trial. Cannot we expect this to take place if a reformer would really to to reform?
I'm Spartacus!
I'm Spartacus.
"This is inevitable, either through debt reduction or printing, but because few actually understand this."
You can't end a sentence with an incomplete thought. 'But because few actually understand this...' There needs to be a consequence to your assertion.
"So ... If the Pauls are they will likely be successful in gaining the ire of the stupid populace as well"
So if the Pauls are what? Stop posting drunk, you're an insult to functioning alcoholics everywhere. On second thought, stop posting at all. You're a dolt.
Sorry you can't see my point through the typos. Let me fix those errors so you can enjoy my post more thoroughly.
... but few actually understand this."
... the Pauls are victorious they will...
Not having enjoyed it in the first place, your corrections do not enhance the experience.
That's what she said
Be nice to dbach's old lady.
What's with you guys? He's totally right and you should recognize it. Did you notice Goolsbee and Geithner already on the waves, predicting total destruction if the debt ceiling is not raised? Prominently featured on ZH? The elites are poised to pin all the blame on Ron Paul and the Tea Party for anything that happens from now on, and with a five minute attention span, the public will easily buy it. Maybe not the clear-eyed sages who post on ZH, but the public at large. They have been stupid enough to follow this far, and what has changed?
Balancing the budget would be a massive un-stimulus which would quickly take the US economy to where it would have been with no stimulus in the first place (down). Do you disagree? Probably you think that is healthy and inevitable, but the sheeple are clueless, right?. Whoever is on stage at the moment TSHTF will take the blame, never mind the 30-year history of the problem.
I don't know about Rand, but I have a feeling Ron is the type of guy who, if he were in a position of leverage once the S started hitting the F, would do everything in his power to keep following through, regardless of the personal consequences. What I mean is, he's got the same fortitude as the men who risked it all in the American Revolution, if I read his character right.
So yes, if his plan succeeded he would be the focus of blame, but then again if his plan truly succeeded (i.e. brought about the desired lasting change), being a martyr to the cause seems like something that he would accept. So in that light, there is not an inherent flaw in the plan.
Ron Paul represents the only sliver of hope I have for our government to do the right thing. If he meets with some kind of end that has the faintest whiff of suspiciousness, there are going to be a lot of very angry people. If Bernanke knew what's good for him, he would be paying for double security, food tasters, and bulletproof cars for Dr Paul.
@dbach
On the contary his reference to the Kennedy clan was a deliberate move to irritate these men - statist republicans and libertarians do not gel.
They did not rise to the bait as they are smart men.
I have to lay my cards on the table and declare I do not trust these men - they are aiming for a pyrrhic victory over the Fed to placate the libertarian section of America.
Ron Paul is a false messiah.
Ron Paul is a truly decent man.
Yes but he is a weak leader of men - he seems to have no authority of speech when he speaks to the chairman.
As for his son well I truely do not trust him.
Yes but he is a weak leader of men
No, he is not a leader of weak men.
Jesus , that is not what I said as you plainly illustrated - for f$£K sake Zero hedge is now populated by brainless auto mans.
God give me strength.
Jesus , that is not what I said as you plainly illustrated
Of course it's not what you said. I was setting you straight. Please try to keep up.
Ron Paul always positioned himself as a gadfly rather than a leader, which made sense duing decades in the wilderness, but costs him now that he is actually in a minor leadership position. Many of his past statements look much too extreme from a mainstream perspective. To his credit, Ron Paul has been busily backtracking in the last few months, and trying to put himself on more sold ground to be a leader. Alas, without the gameshow host look and charisma that Americans expect from leaders, it will not be easy.
The power elites, always smart and adaptable, will do their best to use Ron Paul to soothe public unrest while changing nothing (as they use Obama). They will see if Ron P. is content to hold some show-hearings, say his piece, and go away. Probably Ron P. is smart enough to know how they would use him, and would consider ways to make a real difference. The real struggle, nowhere reported, will be between Ron P. and Eric Cantor.
I don't think he wants to be a messiah.
He's been doing the same thing for 30 years.
He's the real deal.
Perhaps its my politics - I do not believe that complex societies can form seperate island villages , it just creates a power vacuum that can be exploited by the people who can gain access to the excess power.
Ron Paul would make a good Kalahari bushman chief or tribal elder as I sense he is a moral person but don't expect him to protect you from colonists armed with superior weapons.
Cork- that's well put. I find the worship of Ron Paul and all things "free market" to leave me shaking my head.
"Free markets" are an important part of "freedom." Why should anyone have the power to stop others from engaging in voluntary transactions?
Because...you don't believe free markets are a good thing? Or because you think what we've had in the recent past (including little encapsulated forays into 'deregulation') constitute 'free market' economics, and are therefore QED'ed into the dustbin of history? Or maybe you think the government knows best and will regulate our economy to prosperity. My thinking is, that strategy hasn't been working too well.
You really think our problems today are because of too much 'liberty'? Are you saying that monetary and fiscal policy has nothing to do with how messed up the economy is? That the removal of risk, via backstops and bailouts, played no role? That ineffectual (non)prosecution of fraud didn't contribute? None of those things came from 'free markets'. (Enabling fraud is not a free market policy...you can't have freedom without also having rights. Defrauding someone is an infringement of rights.)
Yes there is greed in free markets, but there is also failure and fear of failure, to check greed. And the only way greed has been able to run rampant is with the enabling interference by the government, evidenced by the existence of "TBTF" banks and corporations. By definition this is not a free market economy.
I'd suggest rather than smugly tut-tutting free market "worship", you direct your disdain toward those who believe that increasing the power and reach of the government and the Fed will do anything but worsen the situation.
If elected he would protect us fine & there is no one with superior weapons.
As for a republic - of course you wouldn't understand that.
There is no power vacuum when the powers are repealed one at a time.
The Federal gov't here in our republic has "temporarily" reached beyond the initial agreement of what its powers would be LIMITED to.
We will be removing legal tender laws and the disintegration of the Fed will take care of itself as the fiat money is found less desirable than the alternatives.
some more double click language....
Pyrric victory over the Fed? What, you WANT the Fed to keep going? (USDX at 81.017 at the mo, BTW)
And what is this libertarian section that needs placating? Libertarians are a tiny fraction of the US population. Ron Paul is a libertarian, but he's been fighting his fight for decades because he believes it's the right thing to do (which in fact it is), not because he wants to placate 1% of the US.
Time will tell whether he's any type of messiah at all, but in the meantime he's the best we've got. Is it them, or is it just their mission you don't trust? Ron Paul aims to take down the Fed. He's pretty straight about that. If you think the Fed should keep on truckin', I guess you have reason not to trust them. But if you're saying he's just not the man for the job...well then who is?
Thunderous applause!!!!
dbach: in case you missed it, there is a protracted depression underway.
If by an impossible miracle the public suddenly saw thing's Dr. Paul's way, then that perforce would imply that they/we would be ready for sacrifice.
Finally- one cannot escape deleveraging from malinvestments. That's why they are malinvestments. It is the extend and pretend policy of trying to deny that necessity that is creating the protracted depression.
If the US were to do things Ron's way, there would be a rush of new capital into this country so long as it expected to be used in appropriate ways.
"If the US were to do things Ron's way, there would be a rush of new capital into this country so long as it expected to be used in appropriate ways."
So, the US is hugely in debt, debt which couldn't possibly vanish for decades (unless a complete default!), and people would want to pour their money in? Is this like the credit card companies sending application forms to people who have filed for bankruptcy?
No, I don't believe that it's going to be that straight forward. Any money "poured in" will be to extract resrouces out of the US, just as it's played everywhere else, and has been throughout all time. And, I'm just not seeing that it'll be all that easy, even if there's a US corporation flying flags telling us that it's all good...
Chicago style corruption will save us.
Yes! The never ending string of corrupt illinois governors makes for a quick insteresting read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_of_Illinois#Corruption
Rod Blagojevich said the state of Illinois would stop doing business with BofA. Then he was impeached..
thats a cut, thank you gentlemen into the night†
The A-Paul-Calypse is Nigh!
I hope that they can pull the maiming or destruction of the Fed off.
Odds on Paul the Elder making it to 2012?
As mentioned earlier, he's safe until he stops being an object of derision and starts looking like a real threat.
Agreed. I think he's getting close to that now. He's got to be one of the most famous current congresscritters. Top 10.
I hope people start taking him seriously. It feels like they are.
I know a few Washington insiders (GOP) that do nothing but mock him as a kook.
The corrupt SOBs in power do the only thing they can to stop him, and that is by marginalizing him as being a crazy person.
There are no facts involved with this. Just a perpetuation of assumed perceptions. Truly a discouraging thing.
Ralph Nader too.
Ron Paul and Ralph Nader for 2012!!!
Dude, Nader is not going to run as anybody's VP. At best, he could be Sec. of treasury in a Paul presidency. I said back in November or maybe October, but I was the first. The ticket is Ron Paul-Rand Paul. Can't be beaten, no matter how insidious the opposition or how callous. Well, they've got Sarah Palin too. Looks like Obama gets a second term.
Yah, I suppose. 'All shoulda voted for RN while we had the chance. OOPs.
You're probably right about Obama's 2nd term too; it's not as if he hasn't been doing exactly what he's been told to do so far. No reason for the oligarchs to replace 'im.
Making it on to a party ticket, or making it to 2012 alive?
Intrade odds on 2012.Pres.Paul(Ron) are currently 0.5% bid and 1.8% ask.
They already did admit it. This morning when Geithner claimed if we dont raise the debt ceiling by Q1, we would be at risk of default. This wasn't some schmuck on cnbc, it was the head schmuck, who happens to advise the president on financial matters.
check mate!
glad someone tells the truth...i hope the liar-in-chief, citizen of indonesia, and kenyan native would acknowledge financial embarrassment.
www.obamacrimes.com
Nice to see them fighting even in the face of unbeatable odds. There is a kind of noble heroism to fight even when there is no chance of success. I can only hope they will educate so maybe some of the masses will remember and not fall into the same trap after the empire ends.
after the empire ends...
Yes. That has to be the main reason for political debate now, to make more folks understand what happened, and frame the rules for the morning after.
After many moons spent working for libertarian, free-market policies, with at best modest success, there are recurring problems.
Over half of American households get a government check. It is unrealistic to expect that they will vote for anything other than a larger check. Also, women are reluctant to support a libertarian, personal responsibility agenda. Those fundamental problems must be addressed.
WAD
In a democracy it is as simple as getting 51% of the voting public to agree to loot the other 49%.
Reform is impossible because to many people are net tax feeders. The number of people who depend on the system for their living is simply to great. The system must be brought down by the weight of it's own rot and corruption and a few librarians attacking it. Like a drug addict most will never give up the welfare/warfare state till they are forced off it.
It would not surprise me if that is secretly part of the Paul's plan. To try to convince the world how crazy we are to force us to take the medicine, knowing we will never do so willingly. Also we might be able to pick up a few of the tax feeders in the transition. As things break the state will get more totalitarian and pass out fewer goodies. Hopefully the brutality of the state will stay in people's minds, but perhaps that is to optimistic. Americans have proven to be a shortsighted and narrow thinking bunch. The state is already laying it's counter attack as well by attacking capitalism as the cause of the problems not the crony capitalist system we have.
+2
"In a democracy it is as simple as getting 51% of the voting public to agree to loot the other 49%."
And in THIS system all it takes is about 300 people to loot the other 300 million.
"The state is already laying it's counter attack as well by attacking capitalism as the cause of the problems not the crony capitalist system we have."
Are you serious? They're in bed together! Perhaps you're thinking in the idealistic, as in there's such a thing as a functioning democracy or functioning capitalism?
All of this is silly when considering that ALL of it is based on a bed of quicksand- continued, endless growth on a finite planet. Fix this, fix that, and unless this fundamental is addressed it's all for naught.
The current model is fascism. Fascism <> Capitalism. Giant state sponsored corporations is not capitalism. Corporations are creatures of the state. The state breaths life into them and pretends they are people. Better then people as they have rights normal people do not. Capitalism is free exchange between peoples not the state deciding winners and losers and backing non persons.
Yes the state and the corps are working together. The merger of state and corporate power, Fascism. Hell Benito Mussolini said as much. So was Benito Mussolini a ardent free market capitalist?
You also equate capitalism with endless growth, totally a straw man. In the fascist model we have it's grow or die, but here is it ironclad that free peoples must ever grow their consumption every year? Could not a free people see the limited resources and adjust them accordingly? But with the fascist model of state sponsored corps they have every incentive to extract as much wealth as they can as fast as they can, sine their parent state might not be around forever and they might have to abide by property rights.
And I'm not fan of democracy. Why should everyone be held at gunpoint for taxes and then everyone as a collective vote on how to divy up stolen property? You can argue that a free system without the coercion of the state cannot exist but it certainly is the ideal and labeling our degenerate system as free does nothing but cloud the words and confuse the uneducated. But if such a system is impossible then the highest goal of any man should be to enter that system and dominate his fellow man. To be the holder of the gun and not the one being held at gunpoint.
[In a democracy it is as simple as getting 51% of the voting public to agree to loot the other 49%.]---Shameful
And that is why our Founders despised "democracies."
Incidentally, I liked your post. Many of your posts. I'm not your Junker.
Interesting, Tim Geithner sending that threatening letter to the Senate Majority Leader. I suspect Tim's intention was to prod the SML to begin the process of deal making with Republicans in order to avoid a filibuster on the Debt Ceiling.
And Obama's flip-flopping on his not-so-staunch stand against off-shore drilling: Another political deal with Republicans in the works.
Will the Debt Ceiling be raised? Yes, I expect it will.
Should the Ceiling be raised? In my opinion, NO. Time to get honest.
Crash now? Crash later? Putting it off until later is like consciously deciding to live a lie, hoping the truth will be easier to swallow down the road.
We are a million miles form the Constitution. It died early on and the final nail in the coffin was Wickard v. Filburn. The Constitution is far from perfect, but at least it was tolerable. The problem people have is they think some magical piece of paper will save them. All that piece of paper did was spell out an agreement, which has been long since rendered null and void.
The reason everyone says democracy is that mob rule is easier to direct and control then a bunch of mini republics squabbling it out for power. Democracies fail, read Discourses on Livy by Machiavelli and he spells it out and well before America came about. Even he noticed they tended to dictatorships.
As far as the politicking, theater. Nothing more. The same agenda is being pushed now as was 2/4/6/8/10/12... years ago. The faces change the goals stay the same. It's nothing more then a reality show. Don't get me wrong the politicians likely hate each other, but many share the same patron. Can dick with your coworkers but never shit on your bosses desk. Funny how Mr. Change turned into Bush 3, almost like it was the same guy(s) directing the action. Some might call that conspiracy thinking, but I'm just looking at facts and trends.
On the side of crash now vs later, later. You want later. The USA is gone, nothing but bones and a few scraps of rotting meat. But the world more or less treats us like the USA of the 50s, probably because of the military/reserve status/ and inertia. They know we are done for but don't want to fully admit it either. The world that is coming is going to be rough on us soft Americans, think Mexico standard of living after the dust settles. The upheaval process will be the worst and I expect the worst shortages and chaos then. Take the time to get yourself ready financially, mentally, and if needs be physically. Each day the dollar is still alive is another day to get ready for the financial hurricane coming at us. It's not living a lie, it's living another day and planning to live in the future. The more Americans prepare the less terrible it will be when the dust clears.
Shameful, thank you for that.
+20 Thanks.
[We are a million miles form the Constitution. It died early on and the final nail in the coffin was Wickard v. Filburn. The Constitution is far from perfect, but at least it was tolerable. The problem people have is they think some magical piece of paper will save them. All that piece of paper did was spell out an agreement, which has been long since rendered null and void.]---Shameful
Hi, Shameful. I'm not sure if I should read your post as written by someone profoundly sad how far this great nation has fallen from its founding, or if written by someone lost to the founding principles enshrined in our founding documents.
The great "magic" of our Constitution is that it is based on timeless principles. The principles are these, that man is by nature fallible and consequently governments left unchecked will always---without exception---grow in authority. Human nature is the same today as it was in 1787 or 1215. THAT is why the principles of our Constitution are timeless.
You might also consider Natural Law, or Unalienable Rights. Rights, not given to men by government, but given to men by God. The Bill of Rights does not enumerate men's rights for the people's benefit. I already know my god-given rights. Our rights are enumerated in writing to remind our government of the people's rights and the government's duty to protect those rights. Again, timeless.
I am, like you, terribly pessimistic about our future, going out a generation or so. However, I am very optimistic about the distant future---thanks to that "dead...tolerable...piece of paper rendered null and void" as you say, the U.S. Constitution.
Until then, see you at the FEMA camp. (needed a little levity)
The ideals of the revolution were fine, the Constitution itself a problem. The document is brutally poorly written with huge loopholes, likely by design. Who wanted it, the Federalists. Basically the Hamilton camp, the mercantilists really akin to modern fascists. They had to present it in such a way as to be acceptable though, since it was a move from the Articles of Confederation to this. Of note they had no authority to make the Constitution when they did, it was to revise the Articles of Confederation. Read up on the history of it's passage and drafting. A lot of dirty tricks like the Federalists using the post office to slow correspondence of the Anti Federalists to disable their resistance. Also remember the bill of rights had to be fought for by the Anti Federalists, the Hamilton camp didn't want it. It is what it is, a comprise and somewhat poorly written document. This can be seen almost immediately by the actions of the Supreme Court, who pulled an extra Constitutional power grab right from the start. The Constitution represents a power grab by the Hamilton statists only partially blunted by Jefferson. I look at history without rose colored glasses, facts are facts.
That said, it's a tolerable system, but a system that was buried more then 70 years ago.
The Bill of Rights is long gone. The state has a claim to all property and the bodies of all who dwell within it. The state can levy a direct tax on all, so really none of us own anything. Us little guys can make no income that is not by law subject to tax. We are little more then slaves, our life's blood wrung out to power the brutal machine. With the interpretation of the commerce clause and taxing powers nothing is outside of the purview of the Fed God.
Distant future, don't count on it. When America falls it will not stand up for a good long time if ever, how could it? The failures will be blamed on the capitalists and "freedom". At best we splinter into regions/states with varying levels of liberty. At worst a police state that would put Mao and Stalin to shame. Look at the youth of today, are they to be a guiding light? I'm a member of the youth and as a group we are totally narcissistic and amoral, go hit Facebook (I refuse). My generation would run a concentration camp if it meant a fresh stream of video games, toys, and porn. Any hope rests in the Boomers, the group that help create this nightmare. They at least sorta know things are off kilter and maybe self preservation will motivate them. Go look for a young person who know the Constitution and about natural rights that is not in law school, and the kids in law school are mostly on the far left. Sure some exist but in the tiny minority.
FEMA camp? Hell I'm trying to my family to a rural location and try to find work outside of the prison grid. I desperately want to be out of here before the real 'fun' starts and the guys in black body armor start cracking heads.
I may be wrong, but what really cemented the last nail in the coffin of your democracy was the Citizins United decision that struck down the campaign financing rules. Following that, the amount of money that flowed into the elections was record setting, and that was only mid terms. What will the next Presidential race look like?
Elections are now for sale to the highest bidder who can saturate any given market and easily influence outcomes, either by directly attacking a strong opponent or by implying that they might do so. They don't even have to pretend anymore.
Was over long before that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn
Any pretense of the limit of government power died in 42. In my mind that was the last nail in the coffin for gov power. The final financial deathblow was delivered by LBJ, the Nixon gold window was just us defaulting and no one caring.
The Citizens United just made a bigger joke about corps in this country. Being a corp is way better then being a real person. Persons are limited, corps are unlimited and unjailable, and if lucky TBTF. But don't let that get you down, good old corruption made sure that the voting process has been obsolete for decades. Shit it's common knowledge that Kennedy was rigging the votes. Really should have known better then to talk back to his owners.
Oh and speaking as a developer the electronic voting means most elections are suspect. It is retard easy to mess with them. A few % points can make a difference, just can go to crazy because of exit polling.
[The ideals of the revolution were fine, the Constitution itself a problem. The document is brutally poorly written with huge loopholes, likely by design. Who wanted it, the Federalists.]---Shameful
A perfect document? No.
Timeless? Yes.
The U.S. Constitution is without question one of the greatest government documents crafted by man. The positive impact of the Constitution on the lives of Americans and others around the world is immeasurable.
Federalists vs Anti-Federalists, abrogation of the Articles of Confederation, Hamilton and the banksters, Marbury vs Madison, etc. Important, yes. Gotta know it. But don't get too caught-up in the minutia of history or focusing on a historic figure's human imperfections---flaws we all suffer. Take time to step back and marvel the outcomes.
When the "fun" starts, your generation will do just fine.
If one follows US history, it reads different. Funny how US people love to introduce themselves as victims.
Mostly in the US, large consensus (over 80pc) to go and loot a third party. Always a continuity in US history.
The rest is only relative 'looting' as US citizens decide over the winner share before starting the looting.
Anyone voting into power have the lion's share of the incoming loot whereas the others do the leg work and claim a smaller share. Hence a relative 'looting'
Of course, now that globalization is reaching its end and that the bright days of looting are behind, it will grow more and more important to know who is in charge and who will receive the lion's share.
Over half of American households get a government check.... "
"It's difficult to get a man to understand something if his salary depends on him not understanding it.”
—Upton SinclairThat's an interesting comment. I see the Pauls as standing on solid ground. Others are fighting them, that is, picking fights with them. All they do is state a position and a philosophy. It is the fear of the proponents of the status quo that causes the commotion.
Right and it takes a lot of efforts to get out there and make that stand. Ron is not a young man and could be retired and living it up. Instead he goes to Mordor and fight the beast. He ran for president and spread a lot of ideas even though he faced nothing but open ridicule from the GOP and MSM.
But listening to Ron he knows that the system is really not fixable and will likely collapse. He even stated that the Fed will likely end itself when it burns down the dollar, he won't be the one to end it. What he is doing is education and providing a voice of sanity. Though I would love him as president and pull a Jackson and kill the bank.
I hate to stick my neck out , being a non American and all but their thinking is very conventional.
If the dollar ceases to be the global reserve currency tomorrow (and it will if there is a ceiling on debt) it will create a cascade of destruction and chaos in America and the rest of the Planet. (remember this is not a Hollywood movie - the asteroids do not have some strange gravitational attraction to the lower states)
A more effective approach is to create a moving silver standard for North America that will protect Americans and create a lifeboat of stability in this coming storm.
A sort of free silver but for the people rather then the banks - they can continue to pay their debts in paper.
This silver can be revalued yearly by the treasury based on base money creation and be recognized as legal tender.
I'm afraid Misters Paul will both end up like Jack Wheeler before anything as rational as your comment ever comes to fruition.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/presidential-aide-jack-wheelers-body-found-land...
Oh, and stick your neck out anytime, we're all riding this slow motion train wreck together.
Yes this sewer is also a labyrinth.
If all the local community banks and credit unions put 1% of their assets into physcal silver stored in their own vaults, it would amount to $10 Billion in physical silver, which is a little less than 1/3 of the world's supply. That would break Wall St and transfer power back to the local banks.
Yes and no Cork.
The problems of massive debt and toilet paper currency are universal and easily translate to other cultures. Many of the problems here are systemic and worse.
Wages now have nothing to do with productivity or even utility, but everything to do with the power of your union or your employer. That is hideous and evil, but true. Government is now in the extortion business. Snow removal in New Yawk is cynically delayed. Food stamp and welfare agencies in the Carolinas don't answer their phones. Why? To extort more money from an already broke middle class, that and a hopeless incompetence of our affirmative action idiot masters.
Sound money won't cure a government gone to gangster tactics. We are having a slow motion civil war between the producers and the parasites. The MSM will ignore that..., until they can't, but don't be deceived. Crappy money is the least of the problems, but its demise might be the answer.
If the Treasury / Fed complex had a silver standard it could not have afforded to bail out the shadow banking sector and therefore its dollar for worthless securities programmes would have been a non runner.
However silver is inflationary enough to facilitate real growth unlike Gold which rewards hoarding in a rational financial world.
We will never be pure but sound money imposes a form of rationality on us all.
Yes, so long as there is open (public) & regular audits of each country's PM holdings.
Otherwise they'd just fall into what the Fed is doing now; promises promises & more promises. Trust us, our holdings are actually worth what we say they are. (Puppies and unicorns shiting rainbow lollypops licking an ice cream waffle cone)
No, a common fallacy. Gold is money and storing piles of gold coins in my room will not yield me interest nor would it be an investment. Gold would be hoarded to the same extent that fiat cash is hoarded today.
Wake up, douchie. Hoarding anything allows you to use it as collateral, a basis of trade.
I love this. I love when US citizens pretend not seeing that today US government does nothing new compared to past US governments.
The US middle class building is a story of affirmative action. The US's started as an entitlement nation. What is going on is that simply the resources to keep that marvellous story going on are lacking, making it impossible to keep dreaming.
We dont have people rejecting a culture of entitlement. We have people moaning their group can no longer entitle them as they were used to.
Parasitic? Well, lets see the result of US proceedings after 200 years, the world is put on a strange course where there is no tomorrow, where everything must be consumed today, the only limitation known here is the capacity to consume all in one swoop, something US citizens works hard to resolve.
It is as a parasitic behaviour as cancers are.
The GD was the result of the US coming to the end of their contemporary finite environment. The 19th century growth was based on the bet there would always be even more Indian land to rob. A fallacy that hit the reality wall.
What is starting to happen on the world scale has the same causes as what happened for the GD.
the good Dr Paul advocates competing currencies inc pm's. Look it up.
A classic libertarian ruse - propose something unachievable and if successful would break up the state.
Bimetallism maybe but not competing currencies - do you consider yourself a American , a Texan or a corporate worker who gets paid tokens for the company store ?
Ah the state. I don't know about you but I don't like a group of thugs holding the monopoly of force and extracting my life's blood at the barrel of a gun "For the good of society". I understand that some people are into that, and that's cool, they should be free to give themselves to the state. I just would like to opt out of the slave pits please.
And before you go on about how the state is giving me great things. The roads where I live are crumbled, the cops are openly nothing but revenue generators and don't like coming where I live (to dangerous and 'ethnic'), and the "defense" spending is staring foreign wars and running drugs. I have the FDA backing Monsanto. I have the FCC attacking my free internet. The SEC is tonguing Blankfiens asshole as we speak. To top it off they are selling my future labor to fund their goodies today. God only knows how much of my soul they will want in the coming years. I'm a skilled worker and I'm not sure I'll be able to afford GMO gruel and rags in the coming years.
I would be better off paying the mafia, and they are more honorable, and probably cheaper.
+ another alphabet agency listening to this convo.
+1000
BIG = FAIL
+
well said
Its not looking good for the west , not only do we have fractional currency but also fractional views - the US and the rest of us are going into rapid decay because the banks had the ability to create currency with no cost , not because the state is big or small.
The expulsion of symbolic capital has reduced real capital to the point where the state needs to feed on its citizens to survive as that is what remains
Power corrupts and ultimate power corrupts absolutely - no individual , group of individuals or state should have such power.
I guess Milton and the lads have facilitated the coming libertarian wet dream of state collapse and coming chaos.
I wonder what the average Vandal or Mongol would have made of a nice fat juicy independent village with no spears to protect it. Indeed they would have had more fun from afar if they witnessed the remaining spears take some short term wealth before they descended to take their bounty.