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From The Rumor Bag: The Dangerous Politics Behind The Greek IMF Bailout And Why A Government Collapse May Be Imminent
From The Rumor Bag:
http://troktiko.blogspot.com/2010/04/blog-post_1632.html
Supposedly written by someone in the upper ranks of the Greek government, who will reveal himself when he resigns over this matter in the coming week.
He alleges G-Pap is rushing to get a deal involving the IMF because the Russians were about to offer a 50 billion euro, no-strings-attached (*ahem*) 4% loan package to Greece. Furthermore, the Chinese were showing interest in purchasing ΟΣΕ, the Greek national railroad, a real bleeder for Greek public finances, as part of a 60 billion euro European shopping-spree package.
G-Pap is trying to avoid going this route, and trying desperately to include the IMF in any final aid package, because his allegiance, like his father and grandfather before him, is to the U.S.
The person alleging this information was supposedly involved in the actual meetings in which these decisions were made. If this turns out to be true, and makes headlines, expect serious social unrest and possibly the Greek government to fall in short order.
h/t Dimitrios
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how long has it been since we have every other weekend of an "imminet" Greek bailout or default? This greek moment is like a never ending soap opera. It keeps dragging on and on. greece is only 2% of the Eurozone economy. So it can mangeable but when you add the Portugal, Italy, Ireland,and Spain that is when things get real sticky. Also over in the Us we will have a "greek moment" in two years with California and the other bankrupt states. DOW 360,000 here we come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Two years? Oh no, much sooner than that. Let's see California attempt to get the next budget through. 'Attempt' being the key word here. I'll be surprised if 2010 doesn't see at least one US state effectively default. I cannot see how the Federal Govt. can take the chance of bailing out even one state, as there are at least 39 more in the line behind that first failure.
Arizona surely will be one that will be close to topping the list after this latest immigration law. But not before its has toppled the bond market over. Look for more states to pass protective employment laws. Watch out bond vigilantes...
According to the Ariz. Sun there have been 5 states seeking guidance from Ariz in passing there own Immigration employment laws . though they remain anonymous , good for them , bad for OMGObama . He'll huff and puff and blow your bailout down .
the fed cant take the chance not to bail out the states . QE to infinity
Just throwing this out there....
If true it would seem to me that they don't want to borrow from the Russians and Chinese NOT out of "loyalty" to the U.S. but because they know that the Rus and Chinese won't take to kindly to being defaulted on.
We'll just......wait for it.....
BEND OVER BACKWARDS for them.
Who would your rather borrow from?
The American taxpayer who is being robbed blind by his/her own government, or the Russian and Chinese mobs?
Kid me not, the US is kind with countries which defaulted? Since when?
And where is that US American tax money? Up to now, credits are emitted and injected in the pot. How is that US American tax money?
Good observation - so far no american has paid a single cent more in tax or in any other form to fund the TBTF bailouts, the highly stimulating hand-outs and extended and re-extended unemployment benefits of free spending team-O, any foreign swaps with the Fed (in fact Beanny got a good deal swapping funny american electronic entries against some foreign currencies, particularly east asian-ex Japan) etc. Would future generations pay? I guess once a brute, always a brute. Monetize, default, devalue, cook the books or hyperinflation yes, but more taxes, politically that is impossible. No democrat adminsitration has done that in last 30 years, and no republican adminstration would dare do that unless they want to be Bush No1. In fact american politicians like Bwarney are openly asking americans to default on their mortgages. Civil war in Greece? Sure, but not before you get one in the US of Zimbawe.
If we consider the possibility of mass production about to kick the bucket, who can tell what the debt will be worth in a near future?
If tomorrow, no goods were to be produced and circulated in the economy, what would the debt be worth?
Nothing? Everything that has been produced so far? Only what people who have inherited production from the past are willing to sell?
I here claim that the US will pay back its debt. Respectability can be bought. Cleaning its debt is respectable. And cleaning its debt will be cheap in a near future.
IMF "gifts " from the Fed = US tax money , aka Debt to be repaid - Cool formula easy to grasp
how long has it been since we have every other weekend of an "imminet" Greek bailout or default? This greek moment is like a never ending soap opera. It keeps dragging on and on.
Hey... good sex needs a lot of arousal and postponement of gratification. Til Santorini's volcano erupts and star volleys melt up the sky over the Mediterranean. So Pynchonesque.
A dream? Is it only a dream?... in this Ballardian acute anorgasmic dystopia?
Pynchonesque? I would have thought Pythonesque would be a more apt description of the Greek melodrama.
This, BTW, must have been what Rome looked like in its death throes, shortly before Alaric and the gang came pounding on the gates to collect on their credits.
Heh heh... I look around and realize you may well be right.
Time to crack open Petronius's "Satyricon". The sensuous beauty of an age of decline.
You rang?
To the Greeks this would be extreme change and geopolitical imbalance in the Eurozone.
It will definitely divide the country. Look for problems either direction G-Pap takes.
Classic prisoners dilemma case.
Curiouser and curiouser.
Would be funny. People coming with better offers and being turned down. On what ground? Of course, would not prefer people from coming up that if people comes with a better offer, they will be chosen.
No, no, it does not matter who you are, only your offer matters. That would be the funny part. "We will get your money or we will get our fun"
IMF is not USA. And so G-Pap's allegiance is to the international banking mafia whose real name we dare not say.
Nice one. The IMF is not the US? Mind to explain?
USA is the largest shareholder, but only has 17% of the shares, Germany 5.9%, UK 4.9%, China 3.7%, Saudi Arabia 3.2%, etc.
http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/memdir/members.htm
The IMF owns the USA;
"Mr. Speaker, we are here now in chapter 11.. Members of Congress are
official trustees presiding over the greatest reorganization of any Bankrupt
entity in world history, the U.S. Government. We are setting forth
hopefully, a blueprint for our future. There are some who say it is a
coroner's report that will lead to our demise.
It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has
been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1,
Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and
insolvent. H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress m session June 5, 1933 - Joint
Resolution To Suspend The Gold Standard and Abrogate The Gold Clause
dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official
capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and
Departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal
Government exists today in name only.
The receivers of the United States Bankruptcy are the International
Bankers, via the United Nations, the World Bank and the International
Monetary Fund. All United States Offices, Officials, and Departments are now
operating within a de facto status in name only under Emergency War Powers.
With the Constitutional Republican form of Government now dissolved, the
receivers of the Bankruptcy have adopted a new form of government for the
United States. This new form of government is known as a Democracy, being an
established Socialist/Communist order under a new governor for America. This
act was instituted and established by transferring and/or placing the Office
of the Secretary of Treasury to that of the Governor of the International
Monetary Fund. Public Law 94-564, page 8, Section H.R. 13955
http://www.apfn.net/Doc-100_bankruptcy.htm
Rusty Shorts, where do we go from here? Am trying to wrap my head around the entirety of this complex sitiuation
Under the conditions , as you stated them, we stand naked before our creditors. Other countries were broken up, names and boundaries changed when this event occured. Also wars.
So the Banksters own us, our income and our future. Some freedom.
Thanks Rusty, i came across this bad news also but denied it . Like 9/11 and other crimes, just too large to believe. I talk to my neighbors who are upper middle class educated americans yet do not know their own history. They fail to and refuse to, grasp the reality of the moment. And i wonder what else i fail to see .
- "Rusty Shorts, where do we go from here?"
I don't know merehuman, short of another Andrew Jackson being elected, looks like we're fucked. So, hunker down, build a fire, learn how to grow food, dry and cure meat, hunt and trap, fish, forage for food, because the famine is coming.
You know that moment when you are on a roller coaster, and the seat locks, and some crazy sounding fucker comes over the intercom and says, "Get ready for 'Wily Fucko Mountain' folks! Yer in fer the ride of yer life!" I feel like that just happened.
Rusty, your posts are usually much better than this. Here is a link to the Congressional Record. Except for the first paragraph, which is typical Traficant bloviation, none of what has been attributed to him (i.e. that stuff about Roosevelt and the gold standard and the IMF) was actually said by him.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/JTraficant.pdf
And I have never yet seen a compelling case made why the US should be responsible for a single dime of it.
G-Pap is also an american citizen.
True or not true common people (non followers) are getting more and more upset day by day - like tsounami.
difficult days but nontheless ouzo still plenty.
So am I. But I do not sink THAT much into doofosity (or at least I try).
It crosses my mind though -- why don't I just pick up and leave this beleaguered, soon-to-be-bankrupt place and go to my second home?
My second home is Los Angeles, California.
* back to the drawing board *
Ah, the financially secure Winter Home of the Great Satan, L.A. , CA.
Warmer bucolic concrete pastures there never were.
You seem curiously insensitive to my predicament. :(
Both places where I live make bankruptcy headlines!!
Take me now, o Larry.
You seem curiously insensitive to my predicament. :(
insensitive...lol let me just watch here eating my taco .
An offer from Russia to a failing western country would not be unprecedented. They were also first out of the blocks to make a generous offer to loan money to Iceland out while the rest of the world was still using anti-terror legislation to try and squeeze money out of the Icelandic banks in a most unsporting manner.
Iceland would have been a convenient strategic point for Russia to have access to, and I'm sure the quid-pro-quo for their generosity would have been permission to construct some kind of logistical facility on Icelandic territory, but it's hard to see how Greece could offer them anything similar.
What benefit would Russia gain from this that would be commensurate with a €50bn 'Loan' that will never be repaid? It's a lot of money just to poke a finger in the eye of the incompetent leadership of the EU and IMF.
Unless the plan is to force G-Pap to have to stand up in front of his country and explain why, exactly, he would like them to suffer under a massive austerity program just to stay in the EU/IMF club, when the friendly Russians will give them all the money they need, no strings attached. That would set the cat among the pigeons for sure. Most of the Greek populace seems to have a strong communist bias already, so money from Russia would not have the negative connotations it would in other countries, perhaps.
A seaport that doesn't freeze in the winter, and a naval launch area to the rest of the world.
That's why Russia wanted to annex Afghanistan (on its march to a seaport), but that didn't turn out very well.
I don't think there is any question of a territorial advantage for Russia. No matter what happens vis-a-vis bailouts etc, Europe would never permit Russia access to Greek ports. Not a chance.
They wouldn't like it, but what will they do about it? Shut off oil to Russia? (Oh, right, other way around.) Threaten Russia with the EU army? Don't have one. Don't even have missile defense.
It's like Russia putting a base in Cuba. It's almost an accident that it's not still there. If Russia goes toe-to-toe with Europe, Russia would probably win (because the EU will break itself up first anyway).
They would wet their pants and pick up the phone to Uncle Sam who would be just as displeased at the thought.
I fear the Bear, even when it gifts the Greeks.
They should both count their fingers after shaking hands with one another.
Murmansk is ice-free year round, so is Vladivostok.
The Russians would finally get those warm water ports the Soviets were desparate to have during the Cold War, Except now they would be garrisoned with 100 ft. motor yachts.
Its the Ouzo , man ,the ouzo. Russia is running low on Vodka .
Very early on in the Greece story I was told that China was in this story and looking for an edge. And now that this crisis is boiling their name comes up again.
So how much does Greece need to get buy with some cut backs? I would say $50b.
That would seem like a big bite. Even for China. But maybe not. China just lent 20 large to our pal Hugo Chavez. So if they are willing to lend that dead beat that much they probably would go to $35b for Greece. Russia has the other $15b.
But these loans are tied to other things. China is getting the oil from the Orinocao. I wonder what Greece will have to give up.
What a kick in the pants to everyone if this were to happen. Wars get started over this stuff.
The NYtimes link to the VZ story 4/19/2010:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/19/world/americas/19venez.html
China granted no questions asked loans to the hugely corrupt Sri Lankan government (that Western govts wanted to be linked to development, but the govt wanted to use it to wage war on the Tamils), in exchange for a deep water naval port. I suspect there would be something similar involved with Greece (but for merchant fleet) to ease the shipment of goods into Europe. China is very clever in the geopolitical uses of loans (whereas the US considers it a way to get access for bank salespeople to pile in and sell toxic structured products).
But, it may be bullshit and a tactic to hurry up the reluctant west... the Greeks have been playing everyone from the start..
That's the first thought that came to my mind.
If indeed there is any truth to a Russia and/or China connection, I think the self-interest may be more economically motivated. They may be worried about this indeed being Europe's "...Bear Stearns event". (Marshall Auerback). If it progresses beyond that, China could likely kiss what remaining export markets it has good-bye, and oil demand and prices, a key economic driver for Russia, might go off a cliff ala 2008.
They may have as much, if not more, of a vested interest in keeping a leaking, creaking boat afloat for a while longer, trying to buy time for a palatable solution, at least on their end. Depression-like economic conditions would not engender political stability anywhere, but most western "democracies" would probably fair better and have less destabilizing leadership changes than places such as Russia and China, the -stans, etc.. If they can gain additional influence, leverage and goodies in the bargain, so much the better.
What planetary paradise are you living in? Could it be a glass house and you don't know it??
"hugely corrupt Sri Lankan government"
What are you talking about? Hugely corrupt as compared to what?
Probably just have to put up some collAuteral...
Bingo! It's a play for greek gold.
If in fact russians and china are also at the table, U.S./IMF will most likely bailout greece the full amount. I do not see U.S. administration letting russia having more influcence in euro region. U.S. still is against spread of the russia/china communist regime. Also, this may answer the question why U.S. increase their IMF donation to 100b.
Is it safe to assume that any one of the events (Russian and/or China aid, Greek government collapse) would be wildly bullish for equities?
So I take it Greece is just another US colony? Can't wait for it to implode.
Just think of Greece as the 51st state.
No, silly!
ISRAEL is the 51st state, as everyone knows!
And the UK is the 52nd (Big Brother monkey see, Big Brother monkey do), and Japan the 53rd (all those military bases, you know, defending the japanese against --- whom, again?), and South Korea the 54th, and Germany the 55th (again, those bases), and Iraq the 56th (even LARGER military presence), and Afghanistan the 57th (ditto) .....
How many stars on the flag again? It's so hard to keep count of all the US commitments to its many "friends".
You know, during the last presidential campaign, Obama referred to there being 57 states. Now I understand!
One of those stars on the flag has got to be for the State of Denial. The most populous state, incidentally.
You've forgotten Germany with 90,000 soldiers and Ramstein - biggest American miltary base in Europe.
Ah, I just KNEW I wouldn't be able to avoid being junked by at least ONE pro-Zionist troll!
Greece! What the hell would I know.
Upon my return to the USA from indolent Italy, I will resume my gold & ammo purchase program ASAP.
I don't see how anyone (maybe Germany) makes it over here, what with just as ignorant people and Euro-socialist attitudes. Since the latter has started coming to the USA, I will take the gold at $1160.
"And whatever you have left in 9 mm and 7.62 x 39"
LOL So wrong I don't know where to begin. Forget about the gold and the ammo. Live la dolce vita before fate intervenes.
In case your airline engines clog, can you share the whereabouts of your gold stash....
I am not surprised it it turns out to be true, after all its all politics.
China has a alot of dollars to burn,why not lend some for a political gain. I cannot say the same for Russia but they have religious connections, i am sure they want to help greece, Who knows what IMF is asking for .
50 billion euro is about 15% of Russian currency reserves. No way I can beleive such a sum could be lent to a useless deadbeat country. What can Greece offer? Santorini? Exit from NATO?
Now if it was China who offered the loan, then it might be real. Or China and Russia together, with China being the main creditor. But again what would China want? A railroad is one thing, but for 50B they'd expect to get much, much more.
The USSR used to spend $4 billion or so 1980's dollars per year to maintain a satrapy off the US coast. Don't know if as the Greek's would be willing to go that far though even if the Russians were.
China has less motive to want a client state in Europe. They did have Albania once but that was part of the Sino/Soviet rift along with Balkan blood feuds rather than an imperialist adventure.
Rumors have a lovely way of flying about during politically tense moments like these. I wouldn't believe a Russian/Chinese offer until I saw it in writing, and I don't believe for a second if there was such an offer, there wouldn't be strings attached.
Geographically, Greece is isolated from Russia. The only political benefit they might have in offering aid is to destabilize the EU and NATO or to achieve other political objectives, but there are less expensive ways of doing that. The Chinese have even less of a geopolitcal interest here; buying the railroads only makes a tiny bit more sense, but it's not enough to justify rumored the price tag. Finally, if either party stepped in, they'd be asked/expected to bail out other nations in the EU, which is a pretty tall order - both of these countries have domestic issues of their own where they can't just afford make that kind of commitment.
It just doesn't add up, at least to me.
You might consider that, if the goal is to destabilize the EU and NATO, the rumor itself may be enough. The rumor doesn't have to 'turn out to be true' to make headlines and have the desired effect. And propagating a rumor costs, well, let's just say, much less than $50B.
I keep thinking that there used to be a time when crises were to be managed and not taken advantage of. What exactly is the motivation prevent any crisis when your ruling classes view them as opportunities? And, beyond that, why would they not start instigating said crises?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mzcbXi1Tkk
Apologies for the length but a bit of history never hurt.
...In the name of the Truman Doctrine the United States supplied the military and economic power to enable the Greek monarchy to defeat an army of communist-led insurgents in 1947-49 and won a victory which has become a model for U.S. relations toward civil wars and insurgencies. Almost twenty years later the President of the United States was defending his intervention in Vietnam by pointing to his predecessor's success in Greece. The American experience in Greece not only set the pattern for subsequent interventions in internal wars but also suggested the criteria for assessing the success or failure of counterinsurgency operations. Greece was the first major police task which the United States took on in the postwar world. One of the most important consequences of the American involvement in Greece in the 1940'S was the development of new bureaucracies specializing in military assistance, police administration, and economic aid, committed to an analysis of revolution and a set of responses for dealing with it that would be applied to many different conflicts in the next twenty years.
Intervention and Revolution:
The United States in the Third World
by Richard J. Barnet
World Publishing, 1968, paperback edition
From the "we hate communists even more than fascists" department.
Yup, from CIA aid to the "Regime of Colonels" in '67.
Let's get Greek on the economy!!
Lesson 2
..The United States continued to be deeply involved in Greek politics. For over one hundred years it had been traditional for Greek politics to be dominated by a foreign power, for the most part, Britain. Now the United States assumed that role. Just as there had been a "British party" in the nineteenth century, there was now an "American party." The U.S. ambassador, especially John Peurifoy when he held the post immediately after the civil war, habitually intervened in Greek affairs, as, for example, when he openly supported Marshal Papagos for premier against a rival faction. U.S. military attaches built close relations with segments of the Greek officers corps. Greek politicians charged in the Parliament that the Greek Central Information Agency, outfitted with American equipment and financed by the United States, had become in effect an arm of the CIA, carrying out such missions as the Americans directed. From 1944 to 1964 the United States gave Greece almost four billion dollars, of which a little over two billion dollars was in military aid and most of the remaining sums were to cover current budget deficits and to support agriculture. In the 1960's exports to the United States declined. Although private U.S. capital had flowed into Greece from such U.S. companies as Esso, Reynolds Metal, Dow Chemical, and Chrysler, and large sections of the economy are effectively controlled by U.S. capital, the financial health of the country remains precarious. Two decades of U.S. aid and a dominant American role in Greek politics and economics have averted or, as it now increasingly appears, postponed revolution and civil war, but they have not brought the country much closer either to a just and workable economy or to a stable political structure.civil war, but they have not brought the country much closer either to a just and workable economy or to a stable political structure
Just ask yourself... Whose bargaining position would this rumor most benefit? And of course, it's Greece.
Russian Rescue and a Chinese Choo Choo?
Greece is more likely to engage in detente with Turkey, which would allow them to cut military spending. Greece was in the original Eurozone to cut Turkish influence in the underbelly of Europe, and also so Europeans could claim Greek history as their own. Turkey is a much more important player in this region thn China or Russia.
China and Russia are vile players, all rippled with second thoughts. Dont trust them, my brethern as you never trust a dragon or a bear. Welcome in your heart the recomforting light of justice the US, free of malevolent intentions. Expect the coming of the IMF, that relentless helpers.
It doesn't make sense for the Russians to give away 60 bl euros. First, they are historically close to Greece because of the religious ties. And the crisis will make them look even more favorable in the eyes of Greek population without much of the extra effort. Second, they still remember 98 and are aware that if the energy and raw material prices do fall, they might need that spare cash themselves. Russian 10% drop in the GDP in the 2008 and private loans squeeze was a good wake up call. Third, there are more lucrative targets that could be bought for that cash - Krapkistan's.
So it's reasonable to assume that the rumor itself was generated by the Greek gov. in order to push IMF for more money. The agenda of Greek government, be they really smart about this situation is to get as much cash as possible prior to growingly inevitable default, and it seems that's exactly what they are trying to do. (after realization that their initial bluff to get low interest loans has failed.)
Please, another bluff---Let the Russians have Greece... Give them Boardwalk and Park Place too...New Jersey would definitely sell Atlantic City to the Russians... Christ Greece is more corrupt then Chicago 3X.. They have cooked the books for years, its a money pit... it should be call Entitlement Land!!!
Well Putin doesn't have to do any prep-work on the populace than for Russian style government. When does the greek bride website start?
As soon as that boxcar of Venus shavers gets unloaded...
...In his joint address to Congress on March 12, 1947, Truman called for $400 million in military and economic assistance for Greece and Turkey, and he articulated the Truman Doctrine to "support free peoples who are resisting attempted subjugation by armed minorities or by outside pressure." Although most U.S. actions in Greece were carried out overtly, the CIA did conduct many covert operations, notably in the areas of propaganda and psychological warfare. American policy initially aimed at containing the Greek left, but ultimately succeeded in destroying it. However, over the long term the policy had serious drawbacks. Although publicly committed to democratic reforms in Greece, American officials ultimately contributed to the rightward, authoritarian swing of Greece's politics. Civil liberties were eroded, economic corruption was proliferated, and the power of the armed forces was enhanced.[18] Indeed, George Papadopoulous, the Greek army colonel who led the military coup in 1967, had received a CIA subsidy since 1952.[19]
The Pitfalls of U.S. Covert Operations
by David Isenberg
Can we cut our losses and short-sell Cali to the Chinese?
In a heartbeat, I'd let them have Taiwan back in return for debt forgiveness on their US bond holdings. Total win-win for both parties.
The prior administration had taken baby steps to lessen Greece's dependence on the US by dealing with Russia (gas pipeline, Burgas-Alexandroupolis) and giving China a long lease on one of the two piers at Piraeus (port of Athens). It would take a lot more, though, before an 80bn loan were to materialize -- which is more or less what would be needed to avert default. Or so the Economist and other observers seem to think. Whether they factor in mismanagement and corruption is another question.
could be a decent rumor....where there is smoke......
from dj news wires today @ G20 meetings in washington
(10:29 EDT) Where's Papa? Greek Finance Minister George Papaconstantinou reportedly arrived in Washington in the dark of night Saturday wearing a tracksuit and checked into a luxury hotel near the White House. But the Greek financial delegation later sneaked past teams of journalists unnoticed and, presumably, found its way into the secure perimeter where world financial leaders were huddled for a day of meetings. Papaconstantinou on Saturday is expected to meet privately with the IMF's Strauss-Kahn, U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and Brazilian and Russian financial leaders.
(13:27 EDT) Could Greece get some help from cash-rich China? People's Bank of China's deputy governor Yi Gang didn't give a straight answer when asked by reporters earlier Saturday morning. Instead, Yi said China was a stable force in financial markets and that he is confident the EU and the euro zone would address the Greece problems. Still, China has more than $2 trillion foreign reserves, the world's largest, and could play a secondary stabilizing role if the bailout package gave China confidence to buy some Greek bonds
Look for the indirects at May's auctions to pick up Lizzy.
Way to savy of a move for them.
With friends like the ones the G-Pap family has had, no wonder they are in the situation they find themselves. G-Pap knows that he could get away with all sorts of crap as long as the street gets its cut, but that situation would not hold with either the Chinese or Russians. The only question really left is which one of the big three will hog the hours d'oeuvre tray being proffered...
Wouldn't it make more sense to let them blow up, and then come in and buy the pieces at a discount?
Better to place and detonate the charges yourself, just to make sure while being the first on the scene. Possession and the status quo is 9/10ths of the law after all.
I must admit I had a good chuckle over this rumor. If it's true, all the more power to the future Russian/Greece or China/Greece relationship.
If China is the suitor I would expect the Greeks to welcome them with open arms and ensure the trains are running on time from that Greek port that the Chinese covet. China needs those goods delivered in Europe on time and at cost.
If Russia is the suitor I am trying to visualize how they can use that warm water port. Would they need to annex some terrritory between themselves and Greece or could they ease their shipments through the Balkans.
Either way I expect Russia or China would sell some islands to Germany. You know how these mergers and aquisitions go. You need to sell some assets to bring the debt levels down.
Ok, I wasn't gonna write this due to expected 'conspiracy bs' reaction it would get from many readers (rightfully so btw) but just watching (or reading I should say) this story goes by didn't seem fair to other zerohedgers. So I wanted to share what I experienced only a few months back some major city in Europe.
This group of people came from Russia (some Azeris, some top people with ultra expensive Vacherin Constantine watches from Moscow, plus Italians, plus Swiss & Austiran bankers) with a reference from an ex-agent to see the prime minister of this European country.
Proposal was this: They (Russians) had ridiculous amount of funds (north of $190 bn) in off shore accounts, and they want to use this country's central bank to forward around $130-140bn to Russia in multiple installments, and use the remaining part to invest mostly in infrastructure and energy projects in the country at a very low interest rate (say 5%).
And, they knew the amount was huge, so they wanted to have an 'understanding' (read aggreement) with the prime minister of the country.
As I was sitting in the meeting at a posh hotel, I see many agents flying by at the lobby. I have never encountered anything like this in my life before, expect reading and/or watching it in the movies. (I have some finance background that I use in commodity related business.)
When I ask these people (Russian guys coupled with Swiss&Austrian bankers) how the heck they plan to move such ridiculous amounts of fund from off shore accounts without jerking off banking authorities (read interpol, etc.), they draw up a plan that they had already detailed over the years, only thing left was a cooperating sovereign central bank(s).
To make long story short; people I was with couldn't get the higher ups from the government into a meeting with Russians, plus they, naturally, were scared due to amount, and of all these agents flying around the hotel.
It was too good to be true, but one agent told someone in our group that the fund was only a portion of Putin's funds that he had his oligarchs stashed away to use in situations for strategic reasons (just like we're seeing in Greek situation).
Now, I see this rumour on zerohedge, and I said 'holy craps' after only a few months later. I thought 'Apparently, Russians are still at work! Now for Greeks.'
Few things readers (analytical minds) need to be aware of:
Just wanted to share with my fellow zerohedgers, that's all.
All the best..
that's a great story...thanks for sharing.
don't give up your day job for espionage writing
"Someday, this war's gonna' end."
I call bullshit on this story.
George's father, Andreas Papandreou was many things, he might have "liked" America after having studied in the US, then served in the US Navy as a Corpsman during WWII, and finally taught as a professor at Harvard and Berkeley; but he was not an American puppet.
He always wanted a more neutral position for Greece during the Cold War. When the American backed Colonels junta took power in 1967 he was imprisoned by them and later exiled to Sweden.
When he finally ran for office in the late 1970s he campaigned on withdrawing from NATO, kicking the US bases out of the country and so forth.
So Andreas was many things, but American puppet he was not.
Now G-Pap on the other hand does seem to have some kind of political crush on Obama. I remember watching him running for office a year ago or so and he said after a speech "Nai Boroume" with his fist in the air, meaning "Yes we can"! Everyone in the room died laughing. Funny thing about George is he can't speak Greek too well either, he messes up quite a bit in the mother-tongue...
this has always been the plan.....the ZIONIST bankers (IMF) will always want to loan the countires because they know the countries will be so heavily indebted to them , they will never be able to pay them back ....and at last they will take the land instead of the money....be ready to be slaves ...nothing will be left to the people ...even the land(soil) they stand on.......the matrix is REAL
What about the bankers who are not ZIONists? Do they not loan to countries who are heavily indebted to them?
This is not credible. What could the Russians possibly want in Greece? It is the armpit of Europe, far removed from any strategic interest. The Russians don't even lavish such generosity on their immediate, ex-Soviet neighbors. And I have not read anything to this effect in the Russian press, which would normally (as per past experience) carry at least some hint of something this enormous. If someone in Russia did suggest bailing out Greece, it was probably Zhirinovsky on one of his vodka binges, speaking only for himself.
Greece has one thing of great value. 116 tons of pure gold.
http://www.usgold.com/world-gold-holdings/
who beside all nation states would take gold as payment lol
they all would ,, the little people from the usa . living in dream land would not take the gold , as some armed band would fleece them of it . and of course you cant eat it ...goes the dreaded stupid ,
a nation of sheep .
wonder what gold would have to be 'valued' at in paper terms for greece to appear to be relatively solvent...
Surely there must be an easier way to get the Russians and the Chinese to buy our toxic MBS stuff without having to launder it through Greece.
Rumor or not, this sets up a bailout by the US in the name "national security".
I had become bored with Greece after, oh, a month of the whole 'Grease is burning' propaganda, but now, I am once again amused! That Bildiburger G-Pap is something else! He has a family lineage too!? He does fit in with US politicians then!
Also, Russia and China making moves? Wu-World Order! Spend that cash while it still has value. Take note 'Merca, and buy silver.
Duh! Coming to America.
Papandreou is chillin' at the beach this weekend instead of working to solve his country's problems. The funny part is that the IMF is supposedly balking at the bailout until the EU tosses in some pennies of their own. It will be VERY close on whether or not Greece will make its payment in mid-May.
Troktiko is a Socialist friendly blog that supports terrorists and anarchists. Every day says how smart is the PM, how good is the IMF for the Greeks and supports Gvt propaganda. Doesn't allow comments and many of the posts are about that sexmaniac (!) golf player who is totally unknown to the Greeks, enen to me (that is why i can't recall his name).
Blog's moto is "nothing here is written without purpose". The truth is that there is a huge propaganda that IMF is the most good thing and that G-Pap's decision was the only way Greece had. All the Greek media celebrate IMF's arrival in Greece. They present IMF as thw savior and G-Pap as a charismatic. Tottally hilarious situation.
There's nothing hilarious about it. These are typical moronic and ignorant opinions that run rampant there. Malakies! It's a shame what Greece has turned into - from the pinnacle of the world to the gutter. So many people there have no idea what the real world is like because they have lived in their socialist fantasyland for so long. Now they are broke and pretending that it's all made up by "capitalists". I'm continually astounded at how so many Greeks lack even a basic understanding of economics. The ones that do have their businesses outside of Greece and thumb their noses at the rest. That's how you only have 6 Greeks claiming income over 1M Euros. I've spent a lot of time in Greece and it gets worse and worse every year. If they think things are bad now just wait until they are back on the Drach at a 650:1 Drach to Dollar ratio.
This is the exact meaning of the Malakies word. Socialists for about 30 years ate all the money Greece borrowed while they destroyed every productive activity. Greece produces nothing at all. It consumes only and almost every activity is state bound. Socialist Gvnt cares about taxation and nothing about progress now. Propaganda from state and state-bound private TV channels says that IMF is going to correct all the corrupt Gvt members, praising Socialism as the only political system that can fight and win corruption. Propaganda has silenced all other political voices and the whole situation reminds a non-typical coup d'etat. Whoever tries to have a different thought and position is beeing accused as an almost traitor.
Since you spended a lot of time in Greece you can understand exactly what i say. Of course rumors about printing drachmas were very intense back in March. But there is no rumor that has not come true ever since the socialists came to power with the motto "yes, we can"
You are exactly correct and much of that is eerily reminiscent of stuff that is now happening here with this current administration. We are in a lot of trouble if we don't get back to real capitalistic ideals and turn this Titanic around...quickly.
OK, I'll admit, I scolled to the end, and it's saturday night. Just one question: exactly what is the issue with selling off the RR to the Chinese?
Does greece have oil ????????? If so it`s Dick Cheney to save greece !!!!!!!!!!!!!! p.s. HAL has to get no bid contracts too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Original tipster Dimitrios here.
Actually, radon readings in northern Greece are rumored to indicate perhaps the largest deposit of uranium on the planet, possibly extending into FYROM (a.k.a. Macedonia-Lite), Bulgaria and Albania. That has to be a nice prize for whoever can convince a future highly-bribable Greek government to allow them to turn northern Greece into an uninhabitable strip mine.
Russians: they take every opportunity these days to sow discord in the EU and NATO. They are resurging, and if they can keep the US occupied elsewhere, they can re-consolidate power in their former Soviet sphere of influence. Lending money to nations that are clearly in the US sphere (Iceland, Greece) helps divert US diplomatic, intelligence and possibly military assets from places like Poland, Georgia, etc.
China: The rumor doesn't say they are looking to lend, they are looking to buy Greek assets. The Chinese have already purchased the Greek Scaramanga port, which, if I'm not mistaken, is one of the largest in Europe. Buying another Greek public distressed infrastructure asset would therefore not be anything new. Furthermore, adding the Greek national railroad to a port in Greece makes perfect sense, as these two work in conjunction if they are looking to lock in transportation distribution to the EU.
maybe nike will buy the greek flag for the next round of sneakers ..
they get a cut of every show of the flag ,for a couple billion .
greek advertisment on sleeping aid
On Nytol sleep aid: Warning: may cause drowsiness.
Understand, ever since i do not know when, Russia has wanted a Mediterranean port. CHurchill afer WW2 gave Stalin everything he wanted except Greece, to keep the Med un-Russian. For the Russians, and the Chinese, 50bn for Greece is cheap. they get to insert a huge wedge right in the middle of NATO's most vulnerable flank, and everything that goes with proximity to the Middle east.
This is geopolitics, do not think it is anything else. So the USA and the west generally is not going to stand by and let Russia and China buy Greece.
I think the whole story is improbable, especially the part about G-Pap wanting to favour the US by letting us throw our money down his rathole.
well then maybe the west should have let stalin have greece back in 45
I havn't heard talk of the "Amero" lately. Does this mean, they will skip it all together and fast track us to the NWO reserve currency.
It would explain why the fED needs all these new powers to police the world for systemic risks.
When there was never any talk of banning derivatives after the crash, you knew the fix was in, the conspiracy is real. Take your pick.
Instead of banning deriavatives, we going to expand them, and put up some new exchanges, of course by Goldman, and the FED needs a open book of all the counter parties of the world.?
Ah, yes one centralized exchange so Goldman can know what everone is holding. I see it now, The Green Exchange run by Goldman. I see Obama getting CARbon Credit market off the ground.
Lloyd Blankfien said that the new exchange will having a viewing window for the peasants toi watch the traders in action. Hows that for Transparency?
Hey what a convenient time for a leak: it's bluff time at casino world....
Next DOW key resistance is 11,250/300
If that level is penetrated next target is 11,900
MARKET UPDATES:
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G Pap doesn't sound as cocky anymore, their fate is sealed, so sad.
Hmmm. The Russians can give the Greeks Cyprus, and for the Russians, hemming in Turkey is just a but of joy.
Crimean War anyone?
I'm sorry guys but this is 100% bullsh*t. Like everything else ever said in Greece about Russia.
My take on this story here:
http://lolgreece.blogspot.com/2010/04/i-can-haz-self-aggrandizing-bullshit.html
Whenever I hear "were about to offer", I shut it off